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EMBSPBR
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Embraer releases first rendering of its new turboprop

Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:21 pm

In an interview today with Airfinance Journal Week, the president of the vice-president of marketing for Embraer Commercial Aviation, Mr. Rodrigo Silva e Souza,
revealed, among other topics on how Embraer will emerge after COVID-19, the first images of the new turboprop being developed by the company:

source: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6NR0jB ... ouF0I3gewg

Images courtesy by aeroin.net

Image

Image
 
Max Q
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Re: EMBRAER releases first pictures of its NEW TURBOBROP

Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:25 pm

Hmm

Looks like a big Brazilia
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Newark727
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Re: EMBRAER releases first pictures of its NEW TURBOBROP

Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:26 pm

Max Q wrote:
Hmm

Looks like a big Brazilia


It does. The wing-body join fairing is a lot beefier though - maybe they're putting more fuel there, or landing gear?
Last edited by Newark727 on Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: EMBRAER releases first pictures of its NEW TURBOBROP

Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:27 pm

It looks like a Brasilia if it was designed in 2020, not too surprising I guess.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: EMBRAER releases first pictures of its NEW TURBOBROP

Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:28 pm

Preliminary details:

- cabin comfort similar to EJets;
- commercial operation in 2027;
- range of 80 to 100 passengers;
- low wing according to the new regulations for crashworthiness standards;
- T-tail;
- the company is looking for partnerships that go beyond suppliers, but something in the JV style,
for a joint development and production of the new aircraft.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: EMBRAER releases first pictures of its NEW TURBOBROP

Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:41 pm

And, in parallel, a new military transport aircraft to replace the EMB-110 Bandeirante and EMB-120 Brasília is being developed together with FAB - Brazilian Air Force.
This plane that will have a hybrid-electric propulsion.

Source: (translated from portuguese):
https://www.aeroin.net/embraer-fala-nov ... -eletrica/

Excerpts (please use the google tool to translate the full article):

"During an interview with Aviation Week, Francisco Gomes Neto, President of Embraer, spoke about what the company has been doing in
terms of new propulsion technologies for the development of more environmentally friendly aircraft.
The executive stated that the company already has plans for this. , but in another area. "

“We are working on a new light military aircraft, which is being built with the Brazilian Air Force.
It will be this plane that will have a hybrid-electric propulsion during the development stage of the project ”.

"This aircraft should be the probable substitute for Embraer Bandeirante mainly and also Brasilia, which has already been in service for 30 years."
 
IWMBH
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:53 pm

Do they’ve the funding to develop a cleansheet airliner? I thought they where on thin ice after the Boeing-deal fell thru.
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:54 pm

This looks really interesting, I look forward to following its development.

Has an announcement been made on engine choice?
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Re: EMBRAER releases first pictures of its NEW TURBOBROP

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:00 pm

EMBSPBR wrote:
- range of 80 to 100 passengers;
- low wing according to the new regulations for crashworthiness standards;
- T-tail;

This seems like a threat to the non-selling E2-175. Interesting that the military version would be the test bed for the hybrid propulsion system. :scratchchin:
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EMBSPBR
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Re: EMBRAER releases first pictures of its NEW TURBOBROP

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:09 pm

Devilfish wrote:
Interesting that the military version would be the test bed for the hybrid propulsion system. :scratchchin:


It will not be used in this project.
Source:

Excerpt (translated from Portuguese):
https://www.aeroin.net/embraer-fala-nov ... -eletrica/

“We understand that hydrogen propulsion is one of the lines of research for the future, but it is still really at an early stage.
We at Embraer are working on a hybrid-electric aircraft, we have already done research on fuels and we believe that this technology
will be available in a short or medium term for commercial use ”, says Francisco."

When asked whether the previously announced regional turboprop would be the aircraft to incorporate such technology,
Francisco says no, but it will be a military aircraft.

“It is not with the turboprop yet. We are working on a new light military aircraft, which is being built with the Brazilian Air Force.
It will be this plane that will have a hybrid-electric propulsion during the development stage of the project ”.
 
jbs2886
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Re: EMBRAER releases first pictures of its NEW TURBOBROP

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:34 pm

Newark727 wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Hmm

Looks like a big Brazilia


It does. The wing-body join fairing is a lot beefier though - maybe they're putting more fuel there, or landing gear?


I'm really interested to see the nose.

Is it 3 or 4 across? Looks wider, so I guess 4.
 
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diverdave
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:43 pm

Presumably the weight is being tailored to fit within US airline scope limits.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:48 pm

GE and Pratt will compete fiercely for the new engine. I like the concept. I was staring at it looking for design details.

That is an underside laminar flow wing.
The gear will be tall, I bet details still in review.

That wing looks too thin to be aluminum. Is it the angle or CFRP?

Lightsaber
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Nean1
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:55 pm

diverdave wrote:
Presumably the weight is being tailored to fit within US airline scope limits.


I would expect to see a shorter version (75 passengers), with high performance targeting the US market and another elongated version (95 passengers) looking for more CASM sensitive markets.
 
GSOtoIND
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:10 pm

That fuselage profile doesn't look like it's a double-bubble like the E-Jet(notice how low the doors go), yet the cabin goes too far back to leave room for an aft baggage compartment. I wonder how the real plane will turn out.
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keesje
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:28 pm

The problem with a lower deck is you can't make it too low because of bulk loading & people..
Maybe they'll make the cabin high for real big bins and a wide aisle so most luggage can be cabin.
Looking at e.g. the engine its a real preliminary artist impression. For 2027 EIS they must launch real soon.
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lightsaber
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:35 pm

GSOtoIND wrote:
That fuselage profile doesn't look like it's a double-bubble like the E-Jet(notice how low the doors go), yet the cabin goes too far back to leave room for an aft baggage compartment. I wonder how the real plane will turn out.

I've been trying to figure out where the bags go and... I cannot.

Lightsaber
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seat1a
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:04 am

could this be an island hopper for HA?
 
m1m2
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:54 am

Pratt already has an engine capable of powering this, the PW150 (Q400 engine - 5071 SHP max) although I'm thinking Embraer would want something newer and more fuel efficient. One disadvantage of the low wing is adequate ground clearance for the prop so most likely a 6 or 8 blade will be used. I'll be interested to see if they still use heated boots on the prop or if they can design something that eliminates the need for de-icing. That competition will most likely be between Hamilton Sunstrand and Dowty.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:59 am

So a low wing ATR? ;)
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SXDFC
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:03 am

I wonder if they will do a freighter/ cargo version as a 120 replacement?
 
Nean1
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:31 am

m1m2 wrote:
Pratt already has an engine capable of powering this, the PW150 (Q400 engine - 5071 SHP max) although I'm thinking Embraer would want something newer and more fuel efficient. One disadvantage of the low wing is adequate ground clearance for the prop so most likely a 6 or 8 blade will be used. I'll be interested to see if they still use heated boots on the prop or if they can design something that eliminates the need for de-icing. That competition will most likely be between Hamilton Sunstrand and Dowty.


I bet in a 8 blade propeler.
 
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:34 am

“For illustration only”
 
744SPX
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:43 am

Pratt & Whitney Canada is already all over this with their NGTP engine (8 blades) which they have been working on for a few years now. It's in the 6-8,000 shp range so it would be about perfect, also with an efficiency edge over GE's current offering in the market, the GE38.

This is good news. Have been waiting for the last 10 years for the long-awaited 90 seat turboprop. Hope this succeeds. Will destroy RJ's on efficiency, and no reason it can't be cruising at 450+ mph. The bulbous and comparatively draggy A400M can do 475 all day.
 
744SPX
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:46 am

sprxUSA wrote:
So a low wing ATR? ;)



This will be a LOT faster than the ATR series. Embraer already hinted at this a few years ago with its TPNG.
 
GSOtoIND
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:51 am

lightsaber wrote:
GSOtoIND wrote:
That fuselage profile doesn't look like it's a double-bubble like the E-Jet(notice how low the doors go), yet the cabin goes too far back to leave room for an aft baggage compartment. I wonder how the real plane will turn out.

I've been trying to figure out where the bags go and... I cannot.

Lightsaber

I'm assuming that this was a lazy render of the doors/windows, and that the cargo will in fact be in the rear. Of course, this is pure conjecture.
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CowAnon
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:52 am

m1m2 wrote:
Pratt already has an engine capable of powering this, the PW150 (Q400 engine - 5071 SHP max) although I'm thinking Embraer would want something newer and more fuel efficient.


General Electric has a possible turboprop version of the GE38-1B (T408), which can put out 7,500 shp and is used on the Sikorsky CH-53K helicopter. It's also finishing up a turboshaft project with the Army that goes beyond the current capabilities of the T408.

https://www.mdscoating.com/app/uploads/2019/04/Flight_Article_on_GE38_Coating_Highlighted_29_Oct_2013.pdf
https://www.flightglobal.com/helicopters/us-armys-future-affordable-turbine-engine-effort-to-finish-by-end-of-2020/140636.article
 
m1m2
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:23 am

7500 SHP sounds like overkill for the size of this design. Don't get me wrong, I like power but it also comes at a price, weight of the engine/gearbox and fuel burn. However, you could de rate it and save fuel that way while boosting reliability, but you still have the weight.

I read the articles posted above and it does sound like GE would seriously be in the running here, nice to see some new technology come to turboprops.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:43 am

Oh yeah!! I am thrilled to see Embraer going this route. I love the image of it. Would love to see more pics of it. I miss flying in the Embraer 120, and wouldn't hesitate to jump on this bird any day. I love Embraer, and I am hopeful they will survive these difficult times. Any renderings with the gear down and the front of the plane?
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FlyingElvii
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:17 am

lightsaber wrote:
GE and Pratt will compete fiercely for the new engine. I like the concept. I was staring at it looking for design details.

That is an underside laminar flow wing.
The gear will be tall, I bet details still in review.

That wing looks too thin to be aluminum. Is it the angle or CFRP?

Lightsaber

Don't forget Rolls. They have a pretty robust Turbo program themselves.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:18 am

GSOtoIND wrote:
That fuselage profile doesn't look like it's a double-bubble like the E-Jet(notice how low the doors go), yet the cabin goes too far back to leave room for an aft baggage compartment. I wonder how the real plane will turn out.

Looks like below the deck baggage cargo, with below the wing loading?
 
Insertnamehere
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:34 am

Would be interesting to see who picks these up. If the efficiency is there, maybe we'll see turboprops return to the US3s Regional feed?
 
m1m2
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:44 am

"Would be interesting to see who picks these up. If the efficiency is there, maybe we'll see turboprops return to the US3s Regional feed?"

Don't forget that a lot of Americans seem to have an aversion to turboprops.
 
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zeke
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:00 am

Looks similar to their TPNG concept from a few years ago that was previously discussed on here. Unlike the TPNG concept which had exhaust similar to the GE Advanced Turboprop in the renderings, the significant aspect I see with the render is there is no exhaust from the engine.

Does this point to an electric engine ?
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kaneporta1
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:09 am

lightsaber wrote:
I've been trying to figure out where the bags go and... I cannot.
Lightsaber


In the wing to body fairing. That's why it's so damn big! :lol:
I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
 
Wingtips56
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:24 am

kaneporta1 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I've been trying to figure out where the bags go and... I cannot.
Lightsaber


In the wing to body fairing. That's why it's so damn big! :lol:

It's probably landing gear stowage, like ATR. Those engine pods as shown wouldn't hold them ala Dash-8. Unlikely a belly pod for this sized aircraft could hold enough bags for the pax load. Bags will probably go fore or aft fuselage, and the windows as shown won't be the same in reality. As noted, this is just an initial rendering.
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32andBelow
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:43 am

lightsaber wrote:
GSOtoIND wrote:
That fuselage profile doesn't look like it's a double-bubble like the E-Jet(notice how low the doors go), yet the cabin goes too far back to leave room for an aft baggage compartment. I wonder how the real plane will turn out.

I've been trying to figure out where the bags go and... I cannot.

Lightsaber

Prolly in the tail behind the passengers. I’m not sure if the cargo door is depicted or if that’s a passenger door. It’ll prolly need over wing exits which it isn’t showing there either
 
avier
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 5:06 am

m1m2 wrote:
One disadvantage of the low wing is adequate ground clearance for the prop so most likely a 6 or 8 blade will be used.

The supposed future turboprops, mean't to be much more fuel-efficient, show renderings of much longer blades (diameter) mounted on a typical high-wing turbo-prop.
I wonder how this low-wing aircraft will be able to use those modern turbo-prop engines, unless any engine manufacturer is specifically designing one for this model only.
The longer blades are apparently key in delivering the improved engine efficiencies in such category of aircraft.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:51 am

This was posted somewhere else a while ago, originally released in 2016:

Image

Same fuselage and empennage as the E-jet. The empennage has obviously been changed.


I think the latest renderings look pretty attractive. Underfloor cargo would make managing the CG during loading a dream. The E-jets tall and roomy fuselage will allow passengers to bring full-size carry on luggage. Forward entry door so you can connect a jet-bridge.


SXDFC wrote:
I wonder if they will do a freighter/ cargo version as a 120 replacement?


I doubt it, at least initially. The market is awash with cheap ATRs that are and will be candidates for easy cargo conversion.
 
n797mx
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:45 am

diverdave wrote:
Presumably the weight is being tailored to fit within US airline scope limits.


Talking out of my bum here, but the way things have trended in the US, the Turboprop is soon to be dead for passenger operations.

Public opinion is that they are old, noisy, and uncomfortable. Now try being the first carrier to say "Hey, you know those planes you used to hate? We're bringing them back."

I know many passengers who were glad when the last PDT Dash was parked.
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WesternDC6B
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:12 am

Question. I note the ‘low wing for meeting crashworthiness standards’. Will someone explain why wing placement affects crashworthiness, all else being equal? Thank you/
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Noshow
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:25 am

I support the development of new turboprops for regional aviation. They are more efficient than jets and the slower cruise is no practical factor. They use proven available technology that can be maxed out and are way better (range, turnaround) as in more usable than all those fancy battery plane fantasies.
 
pythoniels
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:19 am

Interesting design, it looks a bit like the Jetstreat 41 combined with the Brasilia. One thing for sure, this livery is stunning. Would be interesting to see how this development goes.
 
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InnsbruckFlyer
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:27 am

Looks like a cool bird, but I'm curious what the target market would be. Could it be a potential replacement of the Q400/ATR at airlines like Austrian, CSA, and Tarom?
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PowerJet
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:31 am

Very cool! I thought propeller airliners were becoming a thing of the past. It would be wonderful if some of these made it into American markets.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: EMBRAER releases first pictures of its NEW TURBOBROP

Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:22 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Hmm

Looks like a big Brazilia


It does. The wing-body join fairing is a lot beefier though - maybe they're putting more fuel there, or landing gear?


I'm really interested to see the nose.

Is it 3 or 4 across? Looks wider, so I guess 4.


Embraer is saying 80-100 passengers- I'm gonna guess it will be 4 across like the -170/-75/-90/-95
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silentbob
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:37 pm

n797mx wrote:
diverdave wrote:
Presumably the weight is being tailored to fit within US airline scope limits.


Talking out of my bum here, but the way things have trended in the US, the Turboprop is soon to be dead for passenger operations.

Public opinion is that they are old, noisy, and uncomfortable. Now try being the first carrier to say "Hey, you know those planes you used to hate? We're bringing them back."

I know many passengers who were glad when the last PDT Dash was parked.

In all fairness, those PDT Dashes were old, noisy and uncomfortable.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:19 pm

Those Dashes may have been old, noisy and uncomfortable but they had an impressive safety record. Esp. considering the number of cycles per day and the age of the crews. For future turbo-prop's to succeed, I think the MFG and the Airlines need to stress the "green" aspect of their efficiency. ( call it a hybrid jet liner!). If the next Administration implements a significant Carbon reduction program, there you go.
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    WayexTDI
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    Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

    Fri Oct 30, 2020 3:30 pm

    744SPX wrote:
    Pratt & Whitney Canada is already all over this with their NGTP engine (8 blades) which they have been working on for a few years now. It's in the 6-8,000 shp range so it would be about perfect, also with an efficiency edge over GE's current offering in the market, the GE38.

    This is good news. Have been waiting for the last 10 years for the long-awaited 90 seat turboprop. Hope this succeeds. Will destroy RJ's on efficiency, and no reason it can't be cruising at 450+ mph. The bulbous and comparatively draggy A400M can do 475 all day.

    Even if it destroy the RJs on efficiency, it might not be able to compete with the E2, A220 and lower-end of Airbus and Boeing narrowbodies. That, and the (irrational) hatred that Americans have against prop planes.
    I wish it the best though
     
    744SPX
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    Re: Embraer releases first pictures of its new turboprop

    Fri Oct 30, 2020 4:29 pm

    WayexTDI wrote:
    744SPX wrote:
    Pratt & Whitney Canada is already all over this with their NGTP engine (8 blades) which they have been working on for a few years now. It's in the 6-8,000 shp range so it would be about perfect, also with an efficiency edge over GE's current offering in the market, the GE38.

    This is good news. Have been waiting for the last 10 years for the long-awaited 90 seat turboprop. Hope this succeeds. Will destroy RJ's on efficiency, and no reason it can't be cruising at 450+ mph. The bulbous and comparatively draggy A400M can do 475 all day.

    Even if it destroy the RJs on efficiency, it might not be able to compete with the E2, A220 and lower-end of Airbus and Boeing narrowbodies. That, and the (irrational) hatred that Americans have against prop planes.
    I wish it the best though



    I'm willing to bet that as long as the turboprop engine core is the same tech level as the PW1000G, the significant improvement in fuel burn over the E2/A221 will get airlines attention.

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