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720B
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A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:52 pm

As per link below, two KLM widebody aircraft experienced a ground collision. A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been damaged at Amsterdam Schiphol Airport, probably by the wingtip of a KLM Airbus A330.

https://www.airlive.net/breaking-a-klm- ... RjjeH_50mw

Another link

https://simpleflying.com/klm-747-collis ... LQJXL1TJio
Last edited by 720B on Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Western727
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:58 pm

I thought the 744s were gone??
Jack @ AUS
 
720B
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:00 pm

Western727 wrote:
I thought the 744s were gone??


The 747 was parked , and the A330 was being towed. So you are right, 747s are no longer in service with KLM, but there are 3 left at Schipol

https://simpleflying.com/klm-747-collis ... LQJXL1TJio
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:06 pm

Not very kind of that A330 to smack the Queen in her face!

Could this jeopardize the 747's final flight to the desert?
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:07 pm

Of all planes, it has to be a 747 that is damaged.
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:26 pm

"On Sunday, a KLM 747 awaiting its final retirement at Amsterdam Schiphol airport had its nose dented by an Airbus A330 wing. The union says that towing incidents like these are because of too high a workload for airport ground staff."

No, incidents like this happen because someone isn't minding the store properly.
 
Antarius
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:31 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
"On Sunday, a KLM 747 awaiting its final retirement at Amsterdam Schiphol airport had its nose dented by an Airbus A330 wing. The union says that towing incidents like these are because of too high a workload for airport ground staff."

No, incidents like this happen because someone isn't minding the store properly.


I mean, both can be true.
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DTWLAX
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:50 am

There are pictures posted in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=597241&start=1200
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:10 am

"You're not going to get rid of me that easily. :bouncy: "

- PH-BFV
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:11 pm

Chances are this bird might go to the scrapper sooner rather than later with this screw-up. KL doesn't own the 744s anymore with the markings and registration already gone
 
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Devilfish
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:44 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
There are pictures posted in this thread:


Image
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Em83ipDWMAE ... name=small


747: "Darn it...mind where your wing goes, you pipsqueak!" :hissyfit:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:54 pm

Nah... I'd rather think its just the Airbus wanting to give her big sister one big hug before leaving... :cry2: :wave: :airplane:

744: "Time to say goodbye..."
A332: "Please dont go... "
 
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Dutchy
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:44 pm

All funny guys.

Serious question though, if the A330 wingtip hit the B744, did the wingtip of the 744 hit the A330? Or has the 744 more lengths between the wing root and the tip of the nose?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Antarius
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:05 pm

Dutchy wrote:
All funny guys.

Serious question though, if the A330 wingtip hit the B744, did the wingtip of the 744 hit the A330? Or has the 744 more lengths between the wing root and the tip of the nose?


It doesn't appear the collision was "in line", meaning the a332 and 744 weren't directly facing each other based on this picture. See the winglet angle. So the only impact is a332 wing to 744 nose.

Image
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muralir
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:21 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
"On Sunday, a KLM 747 awaiting its final retirement at Amsterdam Schiphol airport had its nose dented by an Airbus A330 wing. The union says that towing incidents like these are because of too high a workload for airport ground staff.".


Seriously? When traffic is down like 90%?
 
Canuck600
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:44 pm

Muralir did you ever stop to think that maybe the ground handler has laid off so much staff because of the decline in traffic that the remaining staff does have a high workload? I know it's easier to jump to the usual airliners conclusion to blame the staff especially if they are union.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:44 pm

muralir wrote:
ILNFlyer wrote:
"On Sunday, a KLM 747 awaiting its final retirement at Amsterdam Schiphol airport had its nose dented by an Airbus A330 wing. The union says that towing incidents like these are because of too high a workload for airport ground staff.".


Seriously? When traffic is down like 90%?


AMS had a number of serious pushbacks/towing incidents over the last years. Its somewhat of a recurring phenomenon unfortunately
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:59 pm

muralir wrote:
ILNFlyer wrote:
"On Sunday, a KLM 747 awaiting its final retirement at Amsterdam Schiphol airport had its nose dented by an Airbus A330 wing. The union says that towing incidents like these are because of too high a workload for airport ground staff.".


Seriously? When traffic is down like 90%?


Agreed. That was a quote from the article. It is a ludicrous statement.
 
Flaps
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:23 pm

Looks like the tow crew took the turn just a bit too wide. I'd imagine the wing walker or maybe the tow driver (or both) will be eligible for new career opportunities.
 
B777LRF
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:58 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
muralir wrote:
ILNFlyer wrote:
"On Sunday, a KLM 747 awaiting its final retirement at Amsterdam Schiphol airport had its nose dented by an Airbus A330 wing. The union says that towing incidents like these are because of too high a workload for airport ground staff.".


Seriously? When traffic is down like 90%?


Agreed. That was a quote from the article. It is a ludicrous statement.


You're both, and pardon my french, talking out of your posteriors. None of us here have any idea what the workload is like for the people left running the place. Might be that traffic is down by 90%, but if 91% of staff has been let go that means the reminder has more work to do. Really not that difficult a concept to grasp.

Flaps wrote:
Looks like the tow crew took the turn just a bit too wide. I'd imagine the wing walker or maybe the tow driver (or both) will be eligible for new career opportunities.


First off I think you may find that usage of wing walkers is not very prevalent outside the US, and particular not when towing (as opposed to pushing) an aircraft around an aerodrome. Secondly you do have a completely incorrect understanding of safety, prevention of accidents and no blame culture.

Following an accident there will be an investigation. The purpose of that investigation is not to find someone to sack, but rather to identify the root cause(s) and put measures in place to prevent a reoccurrence. Firing someone working in aviation for having an honest accident is just about the dumbest thing you can do, because the signal you're sending to all other employees is "hide your mistakes", and that's a pretty bad place to be going in aviation.

Only if the person was under the influence or deliberately caused a collision should drastic action be considered.
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zeke
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:06 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
"On Sunday, a KLM 747 awaiting its final retirement at Amsterdam Schiphol airport had its nose dented by an Airbus A330 wing. The union says that towing incidents like these are because of too high a workload for airport ground staff."

No, incidents like this happen because someone isn't minding the store properly.


Probably a better contributing factor would be that due to reduced flights the number of aircraft parked has reduced the maneuvering area available, the 747 looks like it is on the taxi line. They were never going to pass the 747 there, which makes me think they were turning the A330.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:40 pm

zeke wrote:
Probably a better contributing factor would be that due to reduced flights the number of aircraft parked has reduced the maneuvering area available, the 747 looks like it is on the taxi line. They were never going to pass the 747 there, which makes me think they were turning the A330.


FWIW, this happened on a KLM maintenance ramp outside one of the hangars, not on an active taxiway or stand!
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
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zeke
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:29 pm

CrimsonNL wrote:
zeke wrote:
Probably a better contributing factor would be that due to reduced flights the number of aircraft parked has reduced the maneuvering area available, the 747 looks like it is on the taxi line. They were never going to pass the 747 there, which makes me think they were turning the A330.


FWIW, this happened on a KLM maintenance ramp outside one of the hangars, not on an active taxiway or stand!


Thanks I had noticed that in the photos, maintenance areas tend to have higher storage rates at the moment.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:44 am

Devilfish wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
There are pictures posted in this thread:


Image
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Em83ipDWMAE ... name=small


747: "Darn it...mind where your wing goes, you pipsqueak!" :hissyfit:

747: Respect your elders dang wimpersnapper.

:old:

Nothing a little bondo and speed tape couldn't fix up.

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keesje
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:42 am

It's outside Hangar 14. This 744 would have been flown out to th US or any other place to scrap it.
Maybe a fix to ferry it (low) to Twente joining others, if sufficient strength is left. A 20 min flight..

Image
https://www.airplane-pictures.net/airport.php?p=4245
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Flaps
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:59 pm

B777LRF wrote:
ILNFlyer wrote:
muralir wrote:

Seriously? When traffic is down like 90%?


Agreed. That was a quote from the article. It is a ludicrous statement.


You're both, and pardon my french, talking out of your posteriors. None of us here have any idea what the workload is like for the people left running the place. Might be that traffic is down by 90%, but if 91% of staff has been let go that means the reminder has more work to do. Really not that difficult a concept to grasp.

Flaps wrote:
Looks like the tow crew took the turn just a bit too wide. I'd imagine the wing walker or maybe the tow driver (or both) will be eligible for new career opportunities.


First off I think you may find that usage of wing walkers is not very prevalent outside the US, and particular not when towing (as opposed to pushing) an aircraft around an aerodrome. Secondly you do have a completely incorrect understanding of safety, prevention of accidents and no blame culture.

Following an accident there will be an investigation. The purpose of that investigation is not to find someone to sack, but rather to identify the root cause(s) and put measures in place to prevent a reoccurrence. Firing someone working in aviation for having an honest accident is just about the dumbest thing you can do, because the signal you're sending to all other employees is "hide your mistakes", and that's a pretty bad place to be going in aviation.

Only if the person was under the influence or deliberately caused a collision should drastic action be considered.


In the US, wing walkers are absolutely required (by company policies) on ramp areas such as the maintenance ramp in this incident. The reason for that is to prevent PRECISELY what happened here. Failure to do so in this environment (aka the US) is considered to be gross negligence and a deliberate violation of policy. Both are grounds for dismissal. IF all policies were being followed and someone simply misjudged, there might be an opportunity for a second chance after retraining if the employee has a good record. If a tug driver failed to use wing walkers where required that is grounds for immediate dismissal as well.
 
MGA86
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:47 pm

muralir wrote:
ILNFlyer wrote:
"On Sunday, a KLM 747 awaiting its final retirement at Amsterdam Schiphol airport had its nose dented by an Airbus A330 wing. The union says that towing incidents like these are because of too high a workload for airport ground staff.".


Seriously? When traffic is down like 90%?


Airlines and Handlers are operating with minimal staffing to reduce cost and survive. Traffic is down 90% but so are staffing levels.
 
B777LRF
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:39 pm

Flaps wrote:
In the US, wing walkers are absolutely required (by company policies) on ramp areas such as the maintenance ramp in this incident. The reason for that is to prevent PRECISELY what happened here.


And yet, there is no statistical evidence to support the claim wing walkers reduce the number of incidents. Which, to my mind, makes it look more like a CYA exercise than a serious effort to reduce incidents.

Flaps wrote:
Failure to do so in this environment (aka the US) is considered to be gross negligence and a deliberate violation of policy. (...) If a tug driver failed to use wing walkers where required that is grounds for immediate dismissal as well.


I don't think US employment practices are much to write home about; too much focus on blame apportion and going for the quick fix of firing someone for the smallest infractions. Certainly not conducive to developing a sound safety culture. And that might actually be the reason, despite having wing walkers, safety is none the better in the US than the EU.

But this is all academic anyway, as the incident took place in Amsterdam and not, say, Chicago.
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Moose135
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:16 pm

In fine A.net tradition, I have to ask - is it a write off?
:rotfl:
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escapedia
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:34 am

A double Dutch
 
oldJoe
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Re: A KLM Boeing 747-400 has been hit by the wing tip of another aircraft in Amsterdam Schiphol

Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:53 am

Moose135 wrote:
In fine A.net tradition, I have to ask - is it a write off?
:rotfl:


No, a small band aid will do it with a honest excuse of the young chick ( A330 )

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