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stlgph
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:24 pm

flyfresno wrote:
Is there a running list of "former hubs that have lost the most transoceanic service"? I would imagine STL is near the top of that list. CVG, while still a focus city, also once had a lot more transoceanic than the one CDG flight they retain. MEM had AMS and CLE had LHR (or was it LGW?), and PIT had both London airports at one time or another (were there any other European destinations from PIT?). Any other airports I'm forgetting?


Cincinnati had way more than St. Louis did.
If I remember correctly Amsterdam, London, Zurich, Munich, Frankfurt and Rome come to mind.
I believe Sabena flew to Brussels and Air France once came in from Paris, in addition to Delta's Paris services.

Come to think of it, was Zurich on Delta or was it on Swiss?
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klm617
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:33 pm

stlgph wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
Is there a running list of "former hubs that have lost the most transoceanic service"? I would imagine STL is near the top of that list. CVG, while still a focus city, also once had a lot more transoceanic than the one CDG flight they retain. MEM had AMS and CLE had LHR (or was it LGW?), and PIT had both London airports at one time or another (were there any other European destinations from PIT?). Any other airports I'm forgetting?


Cincinnati had way more than St. Louis did.
If I remember correctly Amsterdam, London, Zurich, Munich, Frankfurt and Rome come to mind.
I believe Sabena flew to Brussels and Air France once came in from Paris, in addition to Delta's Paris services.

Come to think of it, was Zurich on Delta or was it on Swiss?


ZRH was on Delta.
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klm617
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:34 pm

flyfresno wrote:
Is there a running list of "former hubs that have lost the most transoceanic service"? I would imagine STL is near the top of that list. CVG, while still a focus city, also once had a lot more transoceanic than the one CDG flight they retain. MEM had AMS and CLE had LHR (or was it LGW?), and PIT had both London airports at one time or another (were there any other European destinations from PIT?). Any other airports I'm forgetting?



USAir served CDG and FRA from PT as well.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:36 pm

flyfresno wrote:
Is there a running list of "former hubs that have lost the most transoceanic service"? I would imagine STL is near the top of that list. CVG, while still a focus city, also once had a lot more transoceanic than the one CDG flight they retain. MEM had AMS and CLE had LHR (or was it LGW?), and PIT had both London airports at one time or another (were there any other European destinations from PIT?). Any other airports I'm forgetting?



I'd say BWI is up there as well but the TATL flights were not operated by the hub carrire they have lost LGW, FRA, AMS, DUB, ACC and KEF
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
FCOTSTW
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:57 pm

From STL, there were only three flights to Europe:

1. STL-LGW: initially operated with 747s, towards the end (2000/2001) flew the 767s. I remember flying 762 in 03/2002. This is the only London route that stayed after the sale of LHR to AA;
2. STL-CDG;
3. STL-FRA.

No MAD/FCO was ever started.
TWA introduced these routes during its period of maximum US/Europe development. FRA did not last that long, however LGW did all the way to the acquisition.
 
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sjones1975
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:43 pm

I have noticed there’s often an active thread on a.net (such as this one) regarding TWA’s transatlantic routes from the 1980s up until the AA merger. It seems that there’s a lot of interest in TWA’s TATL operations. It’s something I’m interested in as well. I have a bunch of images of TWA route maps. While probably not as definitive as timetables, they give you a good idea of the expansion and contraction of TWA’s TATL routes in the 80s and 90s. Given the interest here regarding these routes, I have made the folder public, and you can access it at:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

The files are named by year and month. For example, “rm1992-06.jpg” is the route map from June 1992. Enjoy.
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citationjet
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:30 pm

My April 5, 1998 TWA timetable shows
Flight #720 STL to LGW 767 daily
Flight #722 STL to LGW 767 5x per week before April 30 and daily after May 1.
Flight #818 STL to CDG 767 daily

My September 8, 1999 timetable shows
Flight #720 STL to LGW 767-300 daily
Flight #818 STL to CDG non-stop 767 daily until September 30 daily.
Flight #924 STL one stop to CDG (via JFK) 757/767 effective October 1 daily.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
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klm617
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:47 pm

sjones1975 wrote:
I have noticed there’s often an active thread on a.net (such as this one) regarding TWA’s transatlantic routes from the 1980s up until the AA merger. It seems that there’s a lot of interest in TWA’s TATL operations. It’s something I’m interested in as well. I have a bunch of images of TWA route maps. While probably not as definitive as timetables, they give you a good idea of the expansion and contraction of TWA’s TATL routes in the 80s and 90s. Given the interest here regarding these routes, I have made the folder public, and you can access it at:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

The files are named by year and month. For example, “rm1992-06.jpg” is the route map from June 1992. Enjoy.



From Detroit TWA served London and Paris nonstop in the late 60s and early 70s with Boeing 707s.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
USPIT10L
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:50 pm

sjones1975 wrote:
I have noticed there’s often an active thread on a.net (such as this one) regarding TWA’s transatlantic routes from the 1980s up until the AA merger. It seems that there’s a lot of interest in TWA’s TATL operations. It’s something I’m interested in as well. I have a bunch of images of TWA route maps. While probably not as definitive as timetables, they give you a good idea of the expansion and contraction of TWA’s TATL routes in the 80s and 90s. Given the interest here regarding these routes, I have made the folder public, and you can access it at:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

The files are named by year and month. For example, “rm1992-06.jpg” is the route map from June 1992. Enjoy.


Excellent list. Good job...this is a wonderful resource since historically TWA timetables didn't have flight routings in the back until the mid-90s. You had to manually look through the schedules for tag-ons and through flights.
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KanaHawaii
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:58 am

It got re-gauged to a 767-300 before the end came to the airline
Q wrote:
STL-HNL was also 747 used to..

Q
 
Ionosphere
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:51 am

flyfresno wrote:
Is there a running list of "former hubs that have lost the most transoceanic service"? I would imagine STL is near the top of that list. CVG, while still a focus city, also once had a lot more transoceanic than the one CDG flight they retain. MEM had AMS and CLE had LHR (or was it LGW?), and PIT had both London airports at one time or another (were there any other European destinations from PIT?). Any other airports I'm forgetting?


STL: FRA, CDG, LGW (British Caledonian & TWA), KEF (WOW Air)
CLE: CDG, LHR, LGW, Belgrade (JAT)
MEM: AMS
PIT: CDG, LGW, FRA
CVG: FRA, ZRH, BRU, CDG, AMS
 
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N717TW
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:20 am

Ionosphere wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
Is there a running list of "former hubs that have lost the most transoceanic service"? I would imagine STL is near the top of that list. CVG, while still a focus city, also once had a lot more transoceanic than the one CDG flight they retain. MEM had AMS and CLE had LHR (or was it LGW?), and PIT had both London airports at one time or another (were there any other European destinations from PIT?). Any other airports I'm forgetting?


STL: FRA, CDG, LGW (British Caledonian & TWA), KEF (WOW Air)
CLE: CDG, LHR, LGW, Belgrade (JAT)
MEM: AMS
PIT: CDG, LGW, FRA
CVG: FRA, ZRH, BRU, CDG, AMS


This is totally morphing this thread, but ...

AA operated BNA-LGW during its BNA hub days in the 90s
While RDU-LON still operates (pre-covid and presumptively will resume post-Covid), RDU is no longer a hub. There was also a seasonal RDU-CDG operation if I recall during those hub days.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:27 am

dannynoble wrote:
good question. i looked at departed flights, since i see lots of people recommend it, and to be honest departed flights is kind of worthless. they had a whopping 4 oag world wide flight schedules and none of them even had st louis as a destination. and that is the kicker you have to know the destination and if you do not. then departed flights can not help you. so it will not help you answer this question. i worked for TW in 92-94 and all we had for anything international on a wide body during that time (that i can recall) was CDG and LGW. all the other wide body flights where state side and of course Hawai'i. Hawai'i was the only 747 flight too.


departed flights may be worthless to you but many airline enthusiasts enjoy it. I do. As one poster already mentioned, it's the work of one person who has a day job and does it on his own time and at his own expense. If you can do better then do it but don't knock someone else's work just because it doesn't provide what you want.
 
RTW00
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:01 am

Not non-stop but they had a one stop service to LHR. I flew LHR-BOS-STL all in L-1011 in Dec 1990
 
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FlySail2015
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:54 am

American 767 wrote:
Stoneysp wrote:
I flew a TWA 747 from STL - JFK in August of '94. Wondering if that was a sub or a one stop to Europe.


Might have been a one stop to TLV. Because I believe that TWA used to have a nonstop JFK-TLV. It used to be a 747.



JFK-TLV was definitely on the 747 originally, and then continued with the 763. Pretty sure it remained as one of the last international routes TW flew out of JFK.
 
ZRHYYZ773ER
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:46 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
ZRHYYZ773ER wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
What equipment did TWA use on flights to Europe from STL? At its peak, did STL serve more than just CDG and LGW and were the flights daily?

I can’t seem to find any information regarding TWA’s European ops from STL.

Thanks!


Hi there,

TWA only flew to LGW and Paris CDG from STL. The 747 was at the beginning to LGW but soon both flights were operated on a 763. One of the last 763 I saw in CDG.
In the latter years of TWA the 747s were only used for the STL-HNL-STL services (TW 1 + 2). Later the airline was takes over by AA and the STL - Europe flts were, unfortunately, canceled as AA had east coast hubs, at that time mainly JFK and ORD.


TWA flew STL-FRA as well and it was planned to resume in 2001.


@ Cointrain330 and OzarkD9S

Sorry I must have missed that about FRA
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Ionosphere
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:47 pm

FlySail2015 wrote:
American 767 wrote:
Stoneysp wrote:
I flew a TWA 747 from STL - JFK in August of '94. Wondering if that was a sub or a one stop to Europe.


Might have been a one stop to TLV. Because I believe that TWA used to have a nonstop JFK-TLV. It used to be a 747.



JFK-TLV was definitely on the 747 originally, and then continued with the 763. Pretty sure it remained as one of the last international routes TW flew out of JFK.


July 2001 TWA Trans Atlantic Routes
JFK: CAI, CDG, RUH via CAI
STL: CDG, LGW
 
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klm617
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:04 pm

Ionosphere wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
Is there a running list of "former hubs that have lost the most transoceanic service"? I would imagine STL is near the top of that list. CVG, while still a focus city, also once had a lot more transoceanic than the one CDG flight they retain. MEM had AMS and CLE had LHR (or was it LGW?), and PIT had both London airports at one time or another (were there any other European destinations from PIT?). Any other airports I'm forgetting?


STL: FRA, CDG, LGW (British Caledonian & TWA), KEF (WOW Air)
CLE: CDG, LHR, LGW, Belgrade (JAT)
MEM: AMS
PIT: CDG, LGW, FRA
CVG: FRA, ZRH, BRU, CDG, AMS


CLE also had LJU on JAT
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
airlittoralguy
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:08 pm

Would anyone be able to post the schedule of the following flights

STL to FRA and return

The second STL to LGW in the summer of 1998 ?

Thank you so much
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stlgph
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:50 pm

in 1998 - the STL to LGW departures were 6:50 p.m. and 9:30 p.m.

I can tell you that much.
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departedflights
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:55 pm

airlittoralguy wrote:
Would anyone be able to post the schedule of the following flights

STL to FRA and return

The second STL to LGW in the summer of 1998 ?

Thank you so much


According to TWA's June 1, 1998 timetable:

TWA was not serving Frankfurt at all in the summer of 1998.

As for Saint Louis to London Gatwick...

Lv STL 7:00pm Ar LGW 9:30am+1 TW 720 Daily 767 DS
Lv STL 9:45pm Ar LGW 11:59am+1 TW 722 Daily 767 DS

Lv LGW 11:55am Ar STL 3:15pm TW 721 Daily 767 LS
Lv LGW 3:15pm Ar STL 6:30pm TW 723 Daily 767 DS
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RDUDDJI
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:40 pm

N717TW wrote:

This is totally morphing this thread, but ...

AA operated BNA-LGW during its BNA hub days in the 90s
While RDU-LON still operates (pre-covid and presumptively will resume post-Covid), RDU is no longer a hub. There was also a seasonal RDU-CDG operation if I recall during those hub days.


I believe it was actually RDU-ORY on AA (in the late 80s- early 90s). In recent times, DL was flying RDU-CDG pre-Covid19
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Cointrin330
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:56 pm

N717TW wrote:
Ionosphere wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
Is there a running list of "former hubs that have lost the most transoceanic service"? I would imagine STL is near the top of that list. CVG, while still a focus city, also once had a lot more transoceanic than the one CDG flight they retain. MEM had AMS and CLE had LHR (or was it LGW?), and PIT had both London airports at one time or another (were there any other European destinations from PIT?). Any other airports I'm forgetting?


STL: FRA, CDG, LGW (British Caledonian & TWA), KEF (WOW Air)
CLE: CDG, LHR, LGW, Belgrade (JAT)
MEM: AMS
PIT: CDG, LGW, FRA
CVG: FRA, ZRH, BRU, CDG, AMS


This is totally morphing this thread, but ...

AA operated BNA-LGW during its BNA hub days in the 90s
While RDU-LON still operates (pre-covid and presumptively will resume post-Covid), RDU is no longer a hub. There was also a seasonal RDU-CDG operation if I recall during those hub days.
\

AA operated RDU-ORY in the hub days and dropped it after the hub was dismantled. At the time, AA was not serving CDG and all Paris flights were to ORY. AA also had RDU-LGW, which was switched to LHR in 2008.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:00 pm

FlySail2015 wrote:
American 767 wrote:
Stoneysp wrote:
I flew a TWA 747 from STL - JFK in August of '94. Wondering if that was a sub or a one stop to Europe.


Might have been a one stop to TLV. Because I believe that TWA used to have a nonstop JFK-TLV. It used to be a 747.



JFK-TLV was definitely on the 747 originally, and then continued with the 763. Pretty sure it remained as one of the last international routes TW flew out of JFK.


Yes, TWA operated to TLV nonstop from JFK and back (Flight #'s were 884 and 885 respectively) on the 747. They also served TLV concurrently one stop, via CDG. The CDG-TLV route was usually an L1011 or a 767. In winter, the 747s struggled on TLV-JFK and stopovers at SNN were not uncommon. JFK-TLV continued to the end on the 763. It was a very profitable route, but like most TWA stations in Europe and overseas, TLV was overstaffed, a legacy of years of mismanagement and strict local labor regulations. AA did not want to operate the route after the acquisition was completed and dropped it, triggering lawsuits, as it did not want to inherit around 75-100 local TLV TWA staff. Not sure if those ever did get resolved. AA announced, but has not launched DFW-TLV, and has mentioned launching JFK-TLV as part of the B6 code-share agreement. US operated PHL-TLV but that too was axed post-AA/US merger.
 
AirAmericaKid
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:59 pm

In August 1990 I cashed in a bunch of miles and flew first class on TWA from Seattle to Zurich. Of course, I had to go the long way, so SEA-STL, then a plane change to the L-1011 from STL-BOS-CDG-ZRH. That last leg from Paris to Zurich was cool, I remember it being really short, I was the only person in the first class cabin on that L-1011, and they still fed me a full (albeit small) meal! Great service in TWA back then.
 
worldtraveler2
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:37 pm

Ionosphere wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
Is there a running list of "former hubs that have lost the most transoceanic service"? I would imagine STL is near the top of that list. CVG, while still a focus city, also once had a lot more transoceanic than the one CDG flight they retain. MEM had AMS and CLE had LHR (or was it LGW?), and PIT had both London airports at one time or another (were there any other European destinations from PIT?). Any other airports I'm forgetting?


STL: FRA, CDG, LGW (British Caledonian & TWA), KEF (WOW Air)
CLE: CDG, LHR, LGW, Belgrade (JAT)
MEM: AMS
PIT: CDG, LGW, FRA
CVG: FRA, ZRH, BRU, CDG, AMS


PIT: add LHR, KEF.... looks something like this (incomplete re: seasonality, aircraft):

PIT-LGW, TW, 18MAY81 - AUG81, 3x/week, L-1011
PIT-LHR, BA, 13MAY85 - JUN93, daily 1-stop via IAD, PHL or YUL
PIT-FRA, US, 15JUN90 - 7NOV04
PIT-LGW, BA, JUN93 - 31OCT99, daily 767
PIT-CDG, US, 1OCT98 - 3NOV02
PIT-LGW, US, 17JUL00 - 7NOV04
PIT-CDG, DL, 3JUN09 - 3SEP18, seasonal, B752, B763
PIT-FRA, DE, 23JUN17 - 16SEP19, seasonal
PIT-KEF, WW, 16JUN17 - 12JAN18, year-round, 4x/week, A321
PIT-LHR, BA, 2APR19 - 15MAR20, year-round, 4x/week, B787
 
Cody
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:23 am

Does a 767-200 ER really have the range to do STL-Tokyo???? I was always impressed that US AIRWAYS flew them from CLT-HNL....but STL-Tokyo???? WOW!
 
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sjones1975
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:44 am

Cody wrote:
Does a 767-200 ER really have the range to do STL-Tokyo???? I was always impressed that US AIRWAYS flew them from CLT-HNL....but STL-Tokyo???? WOW!


TWA never flew STL-Tokyo. They never flew Tokyo at all, at least not in the modern era, say, the last 50 years (I'm not sure if they hit Tokyo way back in the 1940s or something).

In the late 1990s, for a brief period during the dot com boom, TWA looked like it might be on the road to financial recovery (though of course that would turn out not to be the case). During that time, there was talk of TWA seeking authority to fly STL-Tokyo. However, I'm guessing that those flights would not have been on the 762. The 762 doesn't have the range for that. TWA did have a330s on order in the 1990s. (The order was later converted to a318s and a320s, and those too were never delivered.) I would imagine that when TWA was looking at Tokyo it was expecting to use the a330s it had on order at the time? Can anyone shed any light on this?

Interestingly, this article quotes TWA as stating that they plan on using the 762 for Tokyo:
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/1998/ ... own-speed/
However, I'm wondering if the journalist got that part wrong. STL-NRT seems a bit far for a 762.
my longest flight in a 757: FRU-ADA-SNN-BWI
 
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flyPIT
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:05 am

Just to complete the list, additions in orange:

worldtraveler2 wrote:
PIT: add LHR, KEF.... looks something like this (incomplete re: seasonality, aircraft):

PIT-LGW, TW, 18MAY81 - AUG81, 3x/week, L-1011
PIT-LHR TW MAY81 - AUG81 4x week 1-stop L-1011 (operated on days the nonstop LGW did not).
PIT-LHR, BA, 13MAY85 - JUN93, daily 1-stop via IAD, PHL or YUL
PIT-LHR TW Summer 1987 daily 1-stop B762 *eastbound only*
PIT-LJU JAT Spring/Summer/Fall 90 nonstop eastbound with tags to DBV and BEG. DBV-PIT westbound with originating tags in ZAG and BEG. 1x weekly or bi-weekly DC-10
PIT-FRA, US, 15JUN90 - 7NOV04
PIT-LGW, BA, JUN93 - 31OCT99, daily 767
PIT-CDG, US, 1OCT98 - 3NOV02
PIT-LGW, US, 17JUL00 - 7NOV04
PIT-CDG, DL, 3JUN09 - 3SEP18, seasonal, B752, B763
PIT-FRA, DE, 23JUN17 - 16SEP19, seasonal
PIT-KEF, WW, 16JUN17 - 12JAN18, year-round, 4x/week, A321
PIT-LHR, BA, 2APR19 - 15MAR20, year-round, 4x/week, B787

At CLE you can add Malev to BUD and AC to LHR.


Cody wrote:
Does a 767-200 ER really have the range to do STL-Tokyo???? I was always impressed that US AIRWAYS flew them from CLT-HNL....but STL-Tokyo???? WOW!
When TWA applied for STL-NRT in the mid-nineties IIRC they intended to re-acquire a couple 747SPs.
FLYi
 
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XLA2008
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:51 am

I flew LGW-STL as a child in the early 90’s I think around 94, and I know that it was on a 747, we travelled to take a family vacation to Orlando and flew TWA. So I’m assuming around that time period that TWA used the 747 into LGW from STL.
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airlittoralguy
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:09 am

If anyone can post the schedule of the STL to FRA Frankfurt flights operated between 1985 and 1990 that would be much appreciated
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aircountry
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:52 am

STL was nonstop to Japan is Transamerica 747 in early 1980. I guess TWA want take over the route for STL and never get the route.
 
Kno
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:44 am

aircountry wrote:
STL was nonstop to Japan is Transamerica 747 in early 1980. I guess TWA want take over the route for STL and never get the route.


Seriously there was a nonstop to Japan from STL? Hard to imagine!
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:20 pm

Q wrote:
STL-HNL was also 747 used to.

It was also a 757 for a while, in the late '90s to very early '00s, as well; with the eastbound nonstop.

STL-LAX-HNL-STL
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klm617
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:33 pm

Kno wrote:
aircountry wrote:
STL was nonstop to Japan is Transamerica 747 in early 1980. I guess TWA want take over the route for STL and never get the route.


Seriously there was a nonstop to Japan from STL? Hard to imagine!


No Transamerica flew from St. Louis to Honolulu not Japan with a 747
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a320flyer
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:07 pm

Ionosphere wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
Is there a running list of "former hubs that have lost the most transoceanic service"? I would imagine STL is near the top of that list. CVG, while still a focus city, also once had a lot more transoceanic than the one CDG flight they retain. MEM had AMS and CLE had LHR (or was it LGW?), and PIT had both London airports at one time or another (were there any other European destinations from PIT?). Any other airports I'm forgetting?


STL: FRA, CDG, LGW (British Caledonian & TWA), KEF (WOW Air)
CLE: CDG, LHR, LGW, Belgrade (JAT)
MEM: AMS
PIT: CDG, LGW, FRA
CVG: FRA, ZRH, BRU, CDG, AMS

CVG also had LGW, MUC, and FCO on DL plus KEF on WOW

Like TWA at STL, DL applied for PEK/PVG/Tokyo from CVG but was never awarded the slots
 
departedflights
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:24 pm

klm617 wrote:
Kno wrote:
aircountry wrote:
STL was nonstop to Japan is Transamerica 747 in early 1980. I guess TWA want take over the route for STL and never get the route.


Seriously there was a nonstop to Japan from STL? Hard to imagine!


No Transamerica flew from St. Louis to Honolulu not Japan with a 747


Was that even nonstop? I thought the Transamerica 747 from Saint Louis to Honolulu always stopped in Dallas/Fort Worth.

Image
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departedflights
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:30 pm

airlittoralguy wrote:
If anyone can post the schedule of the STL to FRA Frankfurt flights operated between 1985 and 1990 that would be much appreciated


From TWA's June 1, 1985 timetable:

Lv STL 8:45pm Ar FRA 12:45pm+1 TW 748 Daily

Lv FRA 2:20pm Ar STL 5:10pm TW 745 Daily
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Ionosphere
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:08 pm

aircountry wrote:
STL was nonstop to Japan is Transamerica 747 in early 1980. I guess TWA want take over the route for STL and never get the route.


Was that scheduled or military charters?
 
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klm617
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:23 pm

departedflights wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Kno wrote:

Seriously there was a nonstop to Japan from STL? Hard to imagine!


No Transamerica flew from St. Louis to Honolulu not Japan with a 747


Was that even nonstop? I thought the Transamerica 747 from Saint Louis to Honolulu always stopped in Dallas/Fort Worth.

Image


I think there was a time where it was nonstop as well. But you are correct for the most part it was STL-DFW-HNL
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Cointrin330
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:53 pm

a320flyer wrote:
Ionosphere wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
Is there a running list of "former hubs that have lost the most transoceanic service"? I would imagine STL is near the top of that list. CVG, while still a focus city, also once had a lot more transoceanic than the one CDG flight they retain. MEM had AMS and CLE had LHR (or was it LGW?), and PIT had both London airports at one time or another (were there any other European destinations from PIT?). Any other airports I'm forgetting?


STL: FRA, CDG, LGW (British Caledonian & TWA), KEF (WOW Air)
CLE: CDG, LHR, LGW, Belgrade (JAT)
MEM: AMS
PIT: CDG, LGW, FRA
CVG: FRA, ZRH, BRU, CDG, AMS

CVG also had LGW, MUC, and FCO on DL plus KEF on WOW

Like TWA at STL, DL applied for PEK/PVG/Tokyo from CVG but was never awarded the slots


Icelandair operated to CLE from KEF for a summer as well. The JAT service was not always nonstop.
 
jmy007
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:29 pm

AA flew STL-LGW right up to October/November of 2003 time frame.

If I recall correctly Northwest, for a while flew, a 747 from STL to NRT via MSP (late 80's early 90's). I recall the 747 being park at the end of the old East Terminal. However, I believe it was a schedule service, but it was so long ago.
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jmy007
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:56 pm

This was a coaster I saw at the TWA museum in Kansas City. No doubt about the 3 European cities TWA flew to (all at one time)

Image
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aircountry
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:35 am

Ionosphere wrote:
aircountry wrote:
STL was nonstop to Japan is Transamerica 747 in early 1980. I guess TWA want take over the route for STL and never get the route.


Was that scheduled or military charters?

I think it was a military charters and lasted few years until after 1981. I saw Transamerica 747 few times in St. Louis when I was young. It was a nonstop and other one stop via ANC then on way to Japan.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:29 pm

Ionosphere wrote:
FlySail2015 wrote:
American 767 wrote:

Might have been a one stop to TLV. Because I believe that TWA used to have a nonstop JFK-TLV. It used to be a 747.



JFK-TLV was definitely on the 747 originally, and then continued with the 763. Pretty sure it remained as one of the last international routes TW flew out of JFK.


July 2001 TWA Trans Atlantic Routes
JFK: CAI, CDG, RUH via CAI
STL: CDG, LGW


When did Tel Aviv end? Are you sure it wasn’t flying? That ran right to the end I thought
 
trex8
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:57 pm

I flew LGW-ORD or STL several times in the early ,mid 80s. Pretty sure it was a 747 every time.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:41 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Ionosphere wrote:
FlySail2015 wrote:


JFK-TLV was definitely on the 747 originally, and then continued with the 763. Pretty sure it remained as one of the last international routes TW flew out of JFK.


July 2001 TWA Trans Atlantic Routes
JFK: CAI, CDG, RUH via CAI
STL: CDG, LGW


When did Tel Aviv end? Are you sure it wasn’t flying? That ran right to the end I thought


I have that combined AA/TW July timetable also - CDG & CAI were the only nonstop transatlantic routes left from JFK in July.Intrestingly DL began JFK-CAI the same month but shelved it after 9/11 as did TW/AA.
In Dec 00' TLV, MXP & LIS were still flown per that timetable. CDG & CAI were also flow obviously.
In both timetables CAI flight went on to RUH.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:42 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Ionosphere wrote:

July 2001 TWA Trans Atlantic Routes
JFK: CAI, CDG, RUH via CAI
STL: CDG, LGW


When did Tel Aviv end? Are you sure it wasn’t flying? That ran right to the end I thought


I have that combined AA/TW July timetable also - CDG & CAI were the only nonstop transatlantic routes left from JFK in July.Intrestingly DL began JFK-CAI the same month but shelved it after 9/11 as did TW/AA.
In Dec 00' TLV, MXP & LIS were still flown per that timetable. CDG & CAI were also flow obviously.
In both timetables CAI flight went on to RUH.


Should add that I do not have a Timetable from in-between December 2000 and July 2001, so not sure when TLV was dropped. MXP & LIS I am pretty sure were dropped in January or February but cannot recall when TLV was dropped. I think it was later after AA took over.
 
aircountry
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:26 am

aircountry wrote:
Ionosphere wrote:
aircountry wrote:
STL was nonstop to Japan is Transamerica 747 in early 1980. I guess TWA want take over the route for STL and never get the route.


Was that scheduled or military charters?

I think it was a military charters and lasted few years until after 1981. I saw Transamerica 747 few times in St. Louis when I was young. It was a nonstop and other one stop via ANC then on way to Japan.


here is the picture of Transamerica 747-100 in St. Louis from Jetphotos. https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/5920327 No picture here in a.net just found at Jp. Its a military charter flight.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: TWA flights to Europe from STL

Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:50 am

I recall a Military Airlift Command ticket counter in the area just east of the Spirit of St. Louis airplane in the ‘80s. I believe the arrival/departure boards showed that Transamerica flight on there but I don’t remember the destination.
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