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bhxdtw
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Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:42 am

Didn't see this posted, deserves its own thread I feel.

https://onemileatatime.com/aer-lingus-manchester/

Think it'll work? I wonder if BHX tried to court EI for these flights...especially as there is so little competition there.

States they are hoping to base 4 aircraft at MAN inc an A330 which denotes either a high volume route (NYC / ORD / MCO / BOS) or a longer range route (LAX / SFO)

Interesting
 
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Channex757
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:26 am

Sort of O/T but if EI do well enough to change a route to widebodies, BHX could be the perfect place to try out the A321LR.
What I'm hearing is the A330 will go West Coast and if they decide otherwise LAS is a possibility.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:36 am

The rumours suggest JFK, BOS and ORD on the LR and MCO on the A330. Personally I think LAS has to be up for consideration, but EI will be keen to stick to the formula that worked for them at DUB and SNN. I don't think they have ever operated a service from their non-DUB bases that they don’t serve from Dublin. So places like the Caribbean, LAS and South Africa would be off-limits.
 
User001
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:44 am

Ive managed to look deeper at the slot requests and its looking like EI have applied for:

daily BOS arriving into MAN 0550 and departing 1040/1045. A321N

Daily JFK arriving into MAN 0610 departing 1210 A321N

Daily MCO arriving into MAN 0745 departing 0940 but 2 days see slightly different departing times. A333

3rd A321N doesnt have flights allocated to it yet, but Expected to be ORD
 
eidvm
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:59 am

Taken from another forum but this apparently is what’s been applied for:

EI47 MAN 1110 ORD 1315 daily
EI46 ORD 1650 MAN 0855 daily

EI35 MAN 0925 MCO 1325 Sun
EI35 MAN 0940 MCO 1340 MT-TFS-
EI35 MAN 0945 MCO 1345 Wed
EI34 MCO 1625 MAN 0735 MTWT-SS
EI34 MCO 1635 MAN 0745 Fri

EI41 MAN 1210 JFK 1505 Daily
EI40 JFK 1815 MAN 0610 Daily

EI45 MAN 1040 BOS 1310 MTWTFS-
EI45 MAN 1045 BOS 1315 Sun
EI44 BOS 1720 MAN 0550 daily

Times seem slightly off though, particularly the eastbound ones so these may be provisional timings.
 
a350lover
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:06 am

Are BA staff going to be happy about this? I guess people in the UK see BA as the "London airline", but still, MAN is more like in the BA radar of action than EI's. BA never considered the A321XLR for themselves in a pre-COVID World were it would never make sense to operate those planes in a hub like LHR, but why not for other ports like MAN?
 
dfdubflyer
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:12 am

Will Notherners fly a Shamrock-branded plane to America? Or, would EI go with some sort of Level-style neutral brand?
 
mattyfitzg
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:13 am

a350lover wrote:
Are BA staff going to be happy about this? I guess people in the UK see BA as the "London airline", but still, MAN is more like in the BA radar of action than EI's. BA never considered the A321XLR for themselves in a pre-COVID World were it would never make sense to operate those planes in a hub like LHR, but why not for other ports like MAN?


Pre-COVID, the only time airports like MAN, BHX etc see any kind of non-LHR related BA metal in the recent years is during the summer, where LCY based BA Cityflyer operate summer charter flights using their E190s, I imagine going forward the story will be the same.

There was talk a while back of BACF getting Airbus A220's, they may well see fit to use those across the Atlantic from smaller UK airports, but it's all rumours for now.

I imagine Unite the Union will have something to say about EI starting flight from Manchester though :duck:
Last edited by mattyfitzg on Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:16 am

dfdubflyer wrote:
Will Notherners fly a Shamrock-branded plane to America? Or, would EI go with some sort of Level-style neutral brand?


Loads of people already fly Aer Lingus from the UK regions, including MAN, over Dublin. Aer Lingus has successfully built a Dublin hub, connecting people from the UK and Europe to the USA. This has been a raging success over the past few years.

Therefore, people will fly Aer Lingus as it is (which they already do) and no neutral brand needs to be created.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
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LH748
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:17 am

I've never quite understood why BA didn't pick a second hub in the north so this seems to be a long overdue step
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a350lover
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:19 am

dfdubflyer wrote:
Will Notherners fly a Shamrock-branded plane to America? Or, would EI go with some sort of Level-style neutral brand?


In a completely different world, without pandemia, and LEVEL being a success for IAG (something which anyway probably would have never happened anyway) I'd say this MAN operation would fit perfectly into what IAG expected of their neutral LEVEL brand.
 
Fliplot
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:22 am

Why? BA have shown zero atlantic interest in the rest of the UK for ages. Tell Unite to go take a jump. BA has shown little initative in ages and I imagine the EI cost structure is more suited to regional operations. The Shamrock will have better recognition than the bland Level brand.
 
Westerwaelder
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:32 am

a350lover wrote:
Are BA staff going to be happy about this? I guess people in the UK see BA as the "London airline", but still, MAN is more like in the BA radar of action than EI's. BA never considered the A321XLR for themselves in a pre-COVID World were it would never make sense to operate those planes in a hub like LHR, but why not for other ports like MAN?


Traditionally BA's cost structure does not allow for a lot of premium light routes. They need to sell a lot of business class to make it work. With the new pay deals and post Covid, who knows but I think BA are quite OK for EI to do the Manchester-US flying.
 
Westerwaelder
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:35 am

LH748 wrote:
I've never quite understood why BA didn't pick a second hub in the north so this seems to be a long overdue step


Premium traffic in the UK is very London centric. It's similar in France but different in Germany. BA have always said there isn't enough premium demand anywhere but London to make longhaul flying work with their cost structure. It's not that they couldn't fill flights but they couldn't fill them and make enough profit.
 
Westerwaelder
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:37 am

dfdubflyer wrote:
Will Notherners fly a Shamrock-branded plane to America? Or, would EI go with some sort of Level-style neutral brand?


I honestly don't think many people care about what's written on the outside of a plane. Good service at the right price, combined with being part of the JV should be a winner.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:38 am

I don't think it'll work, they lack the feed which they have at Dublin. At most, it'll dilute their Dublin hub. They'd basically be competing against themselves.
 
LupineChemist
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:40 am

This is a perfect mission for a 321N. I thought that airlines would go for long and thin from their hubs but this seems to make a lot of sense. Especially with EI joining the JV so they can connect to AA, at least at JFK and ORD.

Also lots of brand awareness in all of the markets served so no reason to start from nothing.
 
fromheretohere9
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:42 am

I think this will be a good decision for EI/IAG. Taking a familiar brand to MAN, which EI is to the UK market. I can see the only slight disadvantage to these direct flights from MAN will be the chance to pre-clear immigration in DUB. This is always a great bonus when flying through DUB or SNN.
 
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OA260
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:50 am

dfdubflyer wrote:
Will Notherners fly a Shamrock-branded plane to America? Or, would EI go with some sort of Level-style neutral brand?


Wont be an issue a lot of British people are already used to flying Aer Lingus Via DUB and of course from and to the British BHD base.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:05 am

OA260 wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:
Will Notherners fly a Shamrock-branded plane to America? Or, would EI go with some sort of Level-style neutral brand?


Wont be an issue a lot of British people are already used to flying Aer Lingus Via DUB and of course from and to the British BHD base.


There's also a huge Irish diaspora in the Manchester/North west area. Further up Glasgow has a similar thing, which made me wonder if they might have considered a smaller operation there, with perhaps JFK or BOS opening up on A321.
 
SueD
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:59 am

LH748 wrote:
I've never quite understood why BA didn't pick a second hub in the north so this seems to be a long overdue step


They had one in the early nineties including long haul to Orlando, New York,Toronto, Barbados, Hong Kong,Delhi, Mumbai and Islamabad at its height .

Los Angeles, Bangkok, Bahrain, Montreal were also served at differing times long ago.

Then came the acquisition of British Regional and mergers with BA Regional to form BA Connect - a shed load of Brazilians and ATPs with mass expansion on multiple daily frequencies across Europe with hubbing at Manchester (and Birmingham at the same time self competing !) with relatively high operating costs and ticket pricing to match to make reasonable returns.

The European single aviation market arrived bringing a host of flexible fares, the fledgling low cost operating model, and using much higher seat densities and lower margins blowing their traditional business model to shreds (And those of other European legacies to boot)

BA Connect simply couldn’t compete in the short haul market and without that the long haul withered on the vine .

Losses escalated and by the second half of the 2000s (6/7) Willy Walsh binned the regional operations onto FlyBE with just the daily BA Manchester - JFK retained for a further few seasons before also going away.

Combined with the growth of the alliances, perceived better product ,and agressive growth of foreign competitors particularly in the Middle East and US east coast. BA simply gave up on any pretence of interest in regional long haul preferring to shuttle their clients down to Heathrow .

For a period they retained a Gatwick link as well, however that was to close soon enough, as the range of onward connections at Gatwick centralised around the Caribbean and secondary European markets.

At the time secondary European routes were rapidly being taken up directly from Manchester and others.
For most customers the idea of routing via Gatwick to Spain , Italy, Southern France and Greece didn’t appeal especially among families or short stayers anyway.
A few frequent and award tickets would be lost , however these wouldn’t have generated much in revenue yield let alone profits.

With sufficient O&D market in London, dwindling domestic traffic (not helped by taxes) and local (Manchester) growth with direct flights by Virgin ,Thomas Cook and Tui in the long haul and a plethora of LCC and foreign mainline carriers the market dynamics pretty much left BA to consolidate on the shuttle period stop.

Through even on the premier shuttle service BA continues to see near season on season declines running at around -15% . Traffic declined from over 1 million to 554,000 annually over the last 7 years.
Last edited by SueD on Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:21 pm, edited 8 times in total.
 
SueD
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:03 pm

JannEejit wrote:
OA260 wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:
Will Notherners fly a Shamrock-branded plane to America? Or, would EI go with some sort of Level-style neutral brand?


Wont be an issue a lot of British people are already used to flying Aer Lingus Via DUB and of course from and to the British BHD base.


There's also a huge Irish diaspora in the Manchester/North west area. Further up Glasgow has a similar thing, which made me wonder if they might have considered a smaller operation there, with perhaps JFK or BOS opening up on A321.


Aer Lingus has been active in the North West Transatlantic market since the 1960’s and it wont be the first time they have operated from flights Manchester to the East Coast without the Dublin stop either.
Last edited by SueD on Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Gupta
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:15 pm

I flew EI a couple of years back to MIA via DUB from LHR and they were perfectly adequate. For me though I’d prefer to connect in DUB and make use of the US preclearance rather than a direct flight from MAN which is about 4 hours from my house. I imagine that apart from people living up to maybe 2 hours from MAN, a lot of people will feel the same. I hope they succeed though, it’s great to see a bit of positive movement since COVID began. Green shoots possibly?
 
SueD
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:30 pm

Gupta wrote:
I flew EI a couple of years back to MIA via DUB from LHR and they were perfectly adequate. For me though I’d prefer to connect in DUB and make use of the US preclearance rather than a direct flight from MAN which is about 4 hours from my house. I imagine that apart from people living up to maybe 2 hours from MAN, a lot of people will feel the same. I hope they succeed though, it’s great to see a bit of positive movement since COVID began. Green shoots possibly?


Pre clearance is more of a perception benefit than reality. Clearance at the US end even in normal circumstances will be far quicker, and reduces the risks associated with a transfer (Added travel time unavoidable) and hassles such as potential baggage loss/delays and indeed missed connections.
 
SueD
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:48 pm

Gupta wrote:
I flew EI a couple of years back to MIA via DUB from LHR and they were perfectly adequate. For me though I’d prefer to connect in DUB and make use of the US preclearance rather than a direct flight from MAN which is about 4 hours from my house. I imagine that apart from people living up to maybe 2 hours from MAN, a lot of people will feel the same. I hope they succeed though, it’s great to see a bit of positive movement since COVID began. Green shoots possibly?


If you live or anyone to be honest lives 4+ hours from Manchester on this long thin island and unless cost driven there will be better alternatives one would suggest.
Doubtless magnet of the London airports to the south, Edinburgh to the north and even Bristol/Cardiff to the south west would be considered .

That said the range of domestic connections to/from Manchester is slowly be rebuilt after the FlyBE collapse even now during the COVID restrictions

Newquay, Exeter, Belfast Harbour, Southampton, Aberdeen, Inverness. Isle of Man, Jersey. Guernsey have all seen replacements .

Currently only really two domestic routes remain to be filled and are Edinburgh and Norwich while Glasgow had been suspended to sometime even before the collapse.
 
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PM
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:51 pm

EI tried to make MAN into a European hub in the 1990s. I hope this venture has more success.
 
User001
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:04 pm

PM wrote:
EI tried to make MAN into a European hub in the 1990s. I hope this venture has more success.


The Aer Lingus MAN-Europe flights were 5th freedoms using different ticket pooling rules that existed back then. When the rules changed, the 5th freedoms were not required, much in the same way the stopover rule changed the dynamics of the Shannon operation. It was nothing to do with ‘success, or ‘failure’.

People need to stop comparing this proposed base to the past attempts at MAN and LGW.

As already explained, the past MAN operation was due to different ticketing rules, and the LGW operation was a stand alone ‘are we low cost, are we not low cost’ attempt in Easyjets biggest back yard, which didnt work.

This MAN TATL base is completely different.

It has the oneworld JV, which means for example, anyone looking at MAN-JFK on the BA or AA websites, will also be shown the direct MAN flights. Its operating in a relatively uncompetitive market (direct competition wise), has a good brand following and taking advantage of the new VFR and leisure focused market. The MAN base has all the advantages the LGW base didnt have.
Last edited by User001 on Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
skydiamond
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Re: Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:05 pm

With the announcement of the JV, won’t these flights also carry AA & BA flight numbers and be for sale on their websites?
Particularly in the case of AA this would provide an option for feed &/or connections?
 
LJ
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Re: Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:21 pm

bhxdtw wrote:
Didn't see this posted, deserves its own thread I feel.

https://onemileatatime.com/aer-lingus-manchester/

Think it'll work? I wonder if BHX tried to court EI for these flights...especially as there is so little competition there.


Not a chance if there is a no-deal Brexit. If a deal, it will depend on what will be concluded (I doubt the UK - US aviation treaty automatically gives EI the right to operate between the UK and US).
 
WAC
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:32 pm

dfdubflyer wrote:
Will Notherners fly a Shamrock-branded plane to America? Or, would EI go with some sort of Level-style neutral brand?


A load of Brits and other European national fly an air airline called Ryanair outside Ireland on planes that have the official national symbol the harp..
 
User001
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Re: Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:34 pm

LJ wrote:
bhxdtw wrote:
Didn't see this posted, deserves its own thread I feel.

https://onemileatatime.com/aer-lingus-manchester/

Think it'll work? I wonder if BHX tried to court EI for these flights...especially as there is so little competition there.


Not a chance if there is a no-deal Brexit. If a deal, it will depend on what will be concluded (I doubt the UK - US aviation treaty automatically gives EI the right to operate between the UK and US).


Its a good job Aer Lingus have applied for a UK AOC then!
 
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OA260
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Re: Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:37 pm

skydiamond wrote:
With the announcement of the JV, won’t these flights also carry AA & BA flight numbers and be for sale on their websites?
Particularly in the case of AA this would provide an option for feed &/or connections?


Yes that indeed will make a big difference.
 
USAirALB
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:58 pm

SueD wrote:
LH748 wrote:
I've never quite understood why BA didn't pick a second hub in the north so this seems to be a long overdue step


They had one in the early nineties including long haul to Orlando, New York,Toronto, Barbados, Hong Kong,Delhi, Mumbai and Islamabad at its height .

Los Angeles, Bangkok, Bahrain, Montreal were also served at differing times long ago.

Then came the acquisition of British Regional and mergers with BA Regional to form BA Connect - a shed load of Brazilians and ATPs with mass expansion on multiple daily frequencies across Europe with hubbing at Manchester (and Birmingham at the same time self competing !) with relatively high operating costs and ticket pricing to match to make reasonable returns.

The European single aviation market arrived bringing a host of flexible fares, the fledgling low cost operating model, and using much higher seat densities and lower margins blowing their traditional business model to shreds (And those of other European legacies to boot)

BA Connect simply couldn’t compete in the short haul market and without that the long haul withered on the vine .

Losses escalated and by the second half of the 2000s (6/7) Willy Walsh binned the regional operations onto FlyBE with just the daily BA Manchester - JFK retained for a further few seasons before also going away.

Combined with the growth of the alliances, perceived better product ,and agressive growth of foreign competitors particularly in the Middle East and US east coast. BA simply gave up on any pretence of interest in regional long haul preferring to shuttle their clients down to Heathrow .

For a period they retained a Gatwick link as well, however that was to close soon enough, as the range of onward connections at Gatwick centralised around the Caribbean and secondary European markets.

At the time secondary European routes were rapidly being taken up directly from Manchester and others.
For most customers the idea of routing via Gatwick to Spain , Italy, Southern France and Greece didn’t appeal especially among families or short stayers anyway.
A few frequent and award tickets would be lost , however these wouldn’t have generated much in revenue yield let alone profits.

With sufficient O&D market in London, dwindling domestic traffic (not helped by taxes) and local (Manchester) growth with direct flights by Virgin ,Thomas Cook and Tui in the long haul and a plethora of LCC and foreign mainline carriers the market dynamics pretty much left BA to consolidate on the shuttle period stop.

Through even on the premier shuttle service BA continues to see near season on season declines running at around -15% . Traffic declined from over 1 million to 554,000 annually over the last 7 years.

A lot of folks fail to remember that once upon a time BA had a decent European operation from MAN/BHX. IIRC the A319s were specifically ordered to operate MAN/BHX-Europe.
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2eng2efficient
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Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:01 pm

SueD wrote:
Gupta wrote:
I flew EI a couple of years back to MIA via DUB from LHR and they were perfectly adequate. For me though I’d prefer to connect in DUB and make use of the US preclearance rather than a direct flight from MAN which is about 4 hours from my house. I imagine that apart from people living up to maybe 2 hours from MAN, a lot of people will feel the same. I hope they succeed though, it’s great to see a bit of positive movement since COVID began. Green shoots possibly?


Pre clearance is more of a perception benefit than reality. Clearance at the US end even in normal circumstances will be far quicker, and reduces the risks associated with a transfer (Added travel time unavoidable) and hassles such as potential baggage loss/delays and indeed missed connections.


This. I have done the pre-clearance routine at DUB a couple times and found it to be a hassle compared to stateside immigration and customs. At least during peak travel times, the hall seems crowded and chaotic, with customs prioritizing certain pax based on whichever flight the Swissport people are trying to push next. I’d imagine SNN is much easier, but I’ve never tried it.
 
simonriat
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Re: Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:36 pm

I hope to god this happens and works.

Somebody should tell BA that there are people in the north who actually travel long haul and in particular trans atlantic.

Right now my only option is VIR or travel 200 miles down south.

Man is my local (big airport) my other option LBA, so having the option of been able to fly from my local, is much appreciated.

On a slight hijack of the thread if I may. What are EI like for long haul? When Covid restrictions end, looking to go into San Fran or possibly LA. I have flown BA (left a lot to be desired), VIR, TCX and LH transatlantic, so a reasonable amount to judge against.
 
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OA260
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Re: Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:42 pm

simonriat wrote:
On a slight hijack of the thread if I may. What are EI like for long haul?


Aer Lingus offer a decent enough product the seats are ok with decent PTVs. Food is basic in Y so dont be expecting much. Flights are usually on time and crew usually ok as with any other carrier. If you pick up a decent fare when they go on sale then go for it. If you are going business class thats a very good product. Food could be improved but the flatbeds are great.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:11 pm

simonriat wrote:
I hope to god this happens and works.

Somebody should tell BA that there are people in the north who actually travel long haul and in particular trans atlantic.

On a slight hijack of the thread if I may. What are EI like for long haul? When Covid restrictions end, looking to go into San Fran or possibly LA. I have flown BA (left a lot to be desired), VIR, TCX and LH transatlantic, so a reasonable amount to judge against.


I think BA only don't do it because their cost structure means they can't make money on the fares they'd have to charge. But yes, they're not nicknamed London Airways without reason :)

EI are pretty good long haul - here's a review I wrote of business class a couple of years ago - https://travelupdate.com/review-aer-lingus-business-class-day/ - it gives a pretty good flavour of what the service is like.

Economy is like any other airline, comfortable enough, movies (though the selection isn't that extensive), Wi-Fi on board, and generally really nice crews. Nothing wrong with Aer Lingus at all and they can be quite inexpensive.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
ChrisEtihad272
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Re: Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:31 pm

at the right price this will work. there is a gap from Manchester to the USA which Thomas cook left behind.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:07 pm

ChrisEtihad272 wrote:
at the right price this will work. there is a gap from Manchester to the USA which Thomas cook left behind.


The question remaining is if your 'right price' yields EI threshold margin and superiority to other prospective uses of aircraft and crew.

The whole 'MAN needs more TATL service' is about as relentlessly tiresome as 'DUS needs TATL service.' If there were money to be made somebody smart would be flying it. You remember that Thomas Cook went into liquidation, right? That suggests a few problems with its route structure and business model.
 
User001
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Re: Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:18 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:

The whole 'MAN needs more TATL service' is about as relentlessly tiresome as 'DUS needs TATL service.' If there were money to be made somebody smart would be flying it. You remember that Thomas Cook went into liquidation, right? That suggests a few problems with its route structure and business model.


I think you need to do a little bedtime reading as your assertion about Thomas Cook is far too simplistic. In that reading, you will see Thomas Cooks debt problem started well before the TATL network we came to see towards the end of their lifespan.
 
Galwayman
Posts: 913
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:20 am

Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:22 pm

dfdubflyer wrote:
Will Notherners fly a Shamrock-branded plane to America? Or, would EI go with some sort of Level-style neutral brand?


-The market will probably be ex North America and the EI brand is well known in Bos and NYC, MCO bound passengers couldn't care less....

- the brand is now extremely bland already , mission acomplished

- Plenty of down time in Manchester for possible rotations to SNN/ORK/BEL
 
richcandy
Posts: 753
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2001 4:49 pm

Re: Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:22 pm

I flew LGW-SFO-LHR with EI. Pre clearance at DUB was great, there was no queue and it took only a few minutes. I should say that I travelled in January and mid week so flights wen't very busy. Friends of mine flew MAN-BOS and said the wait for US customs and immigration at DUB was very stressful. Would I fly via DUB just to use pre clearance well probably not if there was a direct service from an airport that was reasonably close to home. If I had to transit via somewhere anyway then yes.

Onboard in economy the food wasn't great but economy class meals on most airlines haven't been that great in the past few years anyway. (personal opinion). In flight entertainment looked ok but I never really use it. Crew were ok.

Aer Lingus flew MAD-IAD on behalf of United a few years ago. I don't know if MAN-USA will work for them I guess if the fares are ok and its marketed via BA and AA also then maybe. What we don't really know is what the transatlantic market (and fares) from the UK will be like after Covid and what happens with regards to EI and Brexit? EI fly a number of routes from BHD so technically its an EU carrier operating UK domestic flights.

Alex
 
Nickd92
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:01 pm

Re: Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:25 pm

I thought some of the west coast destinations were going to be on the list? SFO/LAX/LAS?

Would be very interesting to see what happens. What effect this could have on the USA feed through DUB from MAN?
 
Nickd92
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:01 pm

Re: Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:27 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
ChrisEtihad272 wrote:
at the right price this will work. there is a gap from Manchester to the USA which Thomas cook left behind.


The question remaining is if your 'right price' yields EI threshold margin and superiority to other prospective uses of aircraft and crew.

The whole 'MAN needs more TATL service' is about as relentlessly tiresome as 'DUS needs TATL service.' If there were money to be made somebody smart would be flying it. You remember that Thomas Cook went into liquidation, right? That suggests a few problems with its route structure and business model.


Way over simplistic there. TC had a multitude of issues which lead to demise. The airline part was profitable indeed and they had turned MAN into a successful base which was profitable.
 
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ClassicLover
Posts: 4963
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:12 pm

Nickd92 wrote:
I thought some of the west coast destinations were going to be on the list? SFO/LAX/LAS?

Would be very interesting to see what happens. What effect this could have on the USA feed through DUB from MAN?


Nah, I think people thought that because there was an Airbus A330 involved, it would be a west coast destination. In reality, the A330 will probably be used for Orlando, with the others all seeing the Airbus A321neo LR.

While it would have an effect on the feed through Dublin, clearly they think there's more money to be made flying people direct from Manchester, and with the airline exits recently, not to mention the joint venture, I'd say they may be onto something.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
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shamrock350
Posts: 5471
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:16 pm

Galwayman wrote:
the brand is now extremely bland already , mission acomplished


You’d have a point if you were just talking about the livery but an airline brand doesn’t start and finish with its livery anymore.

The new Aer Lingus scheme may well be “bland” but the overall image is still as ‘Irish’ as ever. A quick look through most marketing material, customer touch points and airport signage shows us, if anything, Aer Lingus is using more green and a much bigger focus on the shamrock than they were prior to the refresh.

Yes, a neutral brand may help in expanding into new markets but that isn’t what Aer Lingus was solely going for with its 2019 rebrand, it was a minor element of an overall modernisation attempt.
 
crosscheckyyz
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:50 am

Re: EI looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:17 pm

dfdubflyer wrote:
Will Notherners fly a Shamrock-branded plane to America? Or, would EI go with some sort of Level-style neutral brand?


Considering Southerners fly on Norwegian .... i dont see what the difference is?
 
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ChrisNH38
Posts: 267
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:53 pm

Re: Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:22 pm

Are these aircraft ones that might have otherwise served SNN-BOS? Does this mean that BOS-SNN has given way to BOS-MAN?
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
Chaostheory
Posts: 1158
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:09 am

Re: Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:27 pm

User001 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

The whole 'MAN needs more TATL service' is about as relentlessly tiresome as 'DUS needs TATL service.' If there were money to be made somebody smart would be flying it. You remember that Thomas Cook went into liquidation, right? That suggests a few problems with its route structure and business model.


I think you need to do a little bedtime reading as your assertion about Thomas Cook is far too simplistic. In that reading, you will see Thomas Cooks debt problem started well before the TATL network we came to see towards the end of their lifespan.


Correct.

A lot of medical device and biotech firms in NorthWest England and NE US which should help bump up yields too.
 
simonriat
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:03 pm

Re: Aer Lingus looking to start transatlantic from MAN

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:36 pm

The last time I flew with TCX (into LA), I got speaking to the crew (brilliant and friendly btw, hope the staff have or will find jobs with other airlines), they were saying how good and full the flights were especially to the west coast. In fact before their demise, I swear they were talking about opening other routes. Seattle seems to pop in my mind from somewhere. Maybe EI have seen some potential too?

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