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Devilfish
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Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:28 pm

This is more than two months old but I just saw it on my YouTube feed..... :covereyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RyEdC0lNnw

Traveled quite a way too before joining with her intended.
Last edited by atcsundevil on Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited title for clarity
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atcsundevil
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:01 am

I have updated the thread title, as it was clearly causing some confusion.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:09 am

Swissport got one hell of a bill I’m sure!
 
CALMSP
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:24 am

hiflyeras wrote:
Swissport got one hell of a bill I’m sure!


actually, the caption says WFS was pulling the dollies.
 
alasizon
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:36 am

CALMSP wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Swissport got one hell of a bill I’m sure!


actually, the caption says WFS was pulling the dollies.


WFS employees - pulling Swissport branded dollies. Likely a case where WFS is the cargo warehouse operator but Swissport is the ground handler at the actual gate.

Either way, insurance will settle all of that.
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MavyWavyATR
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:15 am

Someone's getting fired after that.
 
Anthstr
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:17 am

Yikes. Read the statement at the end of the video. WFS was using the Swissport dollies without the awareness of Swissport.

I remember a few years ago I caught a ground handler using my company's ground equipment at a different airport and they got in *big* trouble with that airport. I can only imagine the trouble that WFS will be in if it is found that this is a systemic issue at this location. WFS will probably get bills for the ground equipment, unauthorized use of it, as well as the aircraft damage.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:29 pm

It appears that metal sheered and broke. It doesn’t appear at first from the photos that it is anyone’s fault other than old equipment.

I’m surprised we don’t see more things like this given the age and condition of ground support equipment at airports across the world. US carriers are some of the worst when it comes to old broken down ground support equipment. If it doesn’t cause flight delays, it seems like no one invests in it until something bad happens.
 
SoCalPilot
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:30 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
It appears that metal sheered and broke. It doesn’t appear at first from the photos that it is anyone’s fault other than old equipment.

I’m surprised we don’t see more things like this given the age and condition of ground support equipment at airports across the world. US carriers are some of the worst when it comes to old broken down ground support equipment. If it doesn’t cause flight delays, it seems like no one invests in it until something bad happens.

Unless you've worked closely with ground ops in multiple countries, how on earth would you know that the ground equipment is worse for US carriers?

Also, the equipment involved here were both from third-party companies based outside of the US.
 
packmedic
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:52 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
It appears that metal sheered and broke. It doesn’t appear at first from the photos that it is anyone’s fault other than old equipment.

I’m surprised we don’t see more things like this given the age and condition of ground support equipment at airports across the world. US carriers are some of the worst when it comes to old broken down ground support equipment. If it doesn’t cause flight delays, it seems like no one invests in it until something bad happens.


It didn't. If you read the report, all equipment at the point of detachment was in complete working order. the metal that sheared off was between carts 1 and 2 of the runaway group of 3
A319 A320 A321 A321N A332 A333 A359 A388 AT72 B717 B733 B734 B734C B735 B73G B738 B739 B744 B752 B763 B764 B772 B789 B78X CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9 DH8D E135 E140 E145 E170 E175 E190 MD80 MD90
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:19 pm

SoCalPilot wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
It appears that metal sheered and broke. It doesn’t appear at first from the photos that it is anyone’s fault other than old equipment.

I’m surprised we don’t see more things like this given the age and condition of ground support equipment at airports across the world. US carriers are some of the worst when it comes to old broken down ground support equipment. If it doesn’t cause flight delays, it seems like no one invests in it until something bad happens.

Unless you've worked closely with ground ops in multiple countries, how on earth would you know that the ground equipment is worse for US carriers?

Also, the equipment involved here were both from third-party companies based outside of the US.


I’ve worked on the ramp inside and outside the United States. While I’m sure you can find older equipment out there, infrastructure and airports outside the United States are often much newer.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:22 am

Ground equipment is getting better. you have to remember that a lot of the equipment being used today was in the middle of its useful life around 2001. It took 15 years after 9/11 for the US airlines to really stabilize and finally be in a good enough financial position to begin massive investments in ground equipment. Generally, it is some of the lowest priority items for replacement as it is very rugged machinery that can easily last 45-50 years if maintained properly, around 30 with a lot of abuse. So, a lot of it is old but still works fairly reliably. When budgets loosen up the airline usually places pretty large batch orders for equipment. You'll come into work one day to find 20 new tractors and 20 new beltloaders. It just kind of happens. For the most part, a lot of it works well despite being old. United in Denver is applying for a federal EPA grant to help purchase a lot of electric equipment to replace some of the diesels and CNG. Similar grants were awarded for SFO and ORD.
 
Yeastbeast
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:44 am

Dude was not watching his mirrors. At all. Could have pulled in front of the runaways. Better to sacrifice the ground equipment.
Brewers make the wort, the yeast makes the beer.
 
airlinepeanuts
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:51 am

This happens all the time at Sea-Tac, it's a mad dash to find GSE (Ground Service Equipment) and often times vendors use whomever's equipment is closest/easiest to get especially with parking so tight at SEA.
 
as739x
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:21 am

This happened to AS in San Francisco right as the 737-900's came out. I can't recall which aircraft to was, but was a brand new -900. Parked at gate 22, a CO tug driver went past with cans for a DC-10 being loaded and came detached. My supervisor and I only saw the pilots go screaming down the stairs to see what happened. When we got up to look there was water pouring out of the back of the aircraft. The plane sat in the UA MOC for months being repaired by Boeing.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:31 am

Hitch ring failed, according to the pics. Still, it appears he may have been going too fast? No idea what the ramp and road speed limits are ar SEA.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:35 am

packmedic wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
It appears that metal sheered and broke. It doesn’t appear at first from the photos that it is anyone’s fault other than old equipment.

I’m surprised we don’t see more things like this given the age and condition of ground support equipment at airports across the world. US carriers are some of the worst when it comes to old broken down ground support equipment. If it doesn’t cause flight delays, it seems like no one invests in it until something bad happens.


It didn't. If you read the report, all equipment at the point of detachment was in complete working order. the metal that sheared off was between carts 1 and 2 of the runaway group of 3

That is why you ALWAYS double check that the pin Is down. Trust me, it is a harshly learned lesson.
 
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452QX
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:33 am

alasizon wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Swissport got one hell of a bill I’m sure!


actually, the caption says WFS was pulling the dollies.


WFS employees - pulling Swissport branded dollies. Likely a case where WFS is the cargo warehouse operator but Swissport is the ground handler at the actual gate.

Either way, insurance will settle all of that.


Probably all WFS, they just use whatever equipment they find near them. As for the aircraft, it spent some time in the AS hangar of course
 
sandyb123
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:00 am

alasizon wrote:
WFS employees - pulling Swissport branded dollies. Likely a case where WFS is the cargo warehouse operator but Swissport is the ground handler at the actual gate. Either way, insurance will settle all of that.


airlinepeanuts wrote:
This happens all the time at Sea-Tac, it's a mad dash to find GSE (Ground Service Equipment) and often times vendors use whomever's equipment is closest/easiest to get especially with parking so tight at SEA.


Thinking as an insurance assessor... If the dollies where taken without permission then I am going to say this is uninsured as they were being used without the owners (and therefore insurers) 'knowledge'. The fact the tow ring failed is irrelevant here as the user wouldn't have been aware of maintenance or knowledge of this fact.

What happens in reality and what should happen by the book are often two different things and insurers know it!

Sandyb123
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alasizon
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:48 pm

sandyb123 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
WFS employees - pulling Swissport branded dollies. Likely a case where WFS is the cargo warehouse operator but Swissport is the ground handler at the actual gate. Either way, insurance will settle all of that.


airlinepeanuts wrote:
This happens all the time at Sea-Tac, it's a mad dash to find GSE (Ground Service Equipment) and often times vendors use whomever's equipment is closest/easiest to get especially with parking so tight at SEA.


Thinking as an insurance assessor... If the dollies where taken without permission then I am going to say this is uninsured as they were being used without the owners (and therefore insurers) 'knowledge'. The fact the tow ring failed is irrelevant here as the user wouldn't have been aware of maintenance or knowledge of this fact.

What happens in reality and what should happen by the book are often two different things and insurers know it!

Sandyb123


Most third party ground handlers carry a pretty hefty liability policy that covers them (with an equally as hefty deductible) even if they are in the wrong or not following proper procedures. I don't know that any of the third party groups self-insure, that is mostly left to actual airlines and their subsidiaries. It wouldn't surprise me if this also cost WFS the contract with LH and I think LH also will end up having some payments for the damaged cargo since some of it was mentioned to contain lithium ion batteries which shipping them/using them post damage is a big no-no.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
dopplerd
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:16 pm

The tow ring that is show broken in the photos happened when the runaway carts hit the plane. It did NOT cause the carts to leave the train. Several people have referenced the broken ring as the cause of the accident and they are incorrect.
 
sandyb123
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:58 pm

alasizon wrote:
sandyb123 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
WFS employees - pulling Swissport branded dollies. Likely a case where WFS is the cargo warehouse operator but Swissport is the ground handler at the actual gate. Either way, insurance will settle all of that.


airlinepeanuts wrote:
This happens all the time at Sea-Tac, it's a mad dash to find GSE (Ground Service Equipment) and often times vendors use whomever's equipment is closest/easiest to get especially with parking so tight at SEA.


Thinking as an insurance assessor... If the dollies where taken without permission then I am going to say this is uninsured as they were being used without the owners (and therefore insurers) 'knowledge'. The fact the tow ring failed is irrelevant here as the user wouldn't have been aware of maintenance or knowledge of this fact.

What happens in reality and what should happen by the book are often two different things and insurers know it!

Sandyb123


Most third party ground handlers carry a pretty hefty liability policy that covers them (with an equally as hefty deductible) even if they are in the wrong or not following proper procedures. I don't know that any of the third party groups self-insure, that is mostly left to actual airlines and their subsidiaries. It wouldn't surprise me if this also cost WFS the contract with LH and I think LH also will end up having some payments for the damaged cargo since some of it was mentioned to contain lithium ion batteries which shipping them/using them post damage is a big no-no.


Yes but if I stole your car and crashed it, your insurer wouldn't be liable or pay out for my act. That is basically the same logic that happened here (without the criminal intent bit ;-) )

Yikes as you say if this was ion batteries then agreed they are going nowhere other than to be recycled (hopefully) or landfill.

Sandyb123
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airlinepeanuts
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:20 pm

So in these situations, each entity usually performs their own investigation, the Port of Seattle will do one, Alaska will, WFS, Swissport and anyone else involved. They'll probably all blame eachother and their own respective insurers will cover it.
 
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cjg225
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:02 pm

Yeastbeast wrote:
Dude was not watching his mirrors. At all. Could have pulled in front of the runaways. Better to sacrifice the ground equipment.

She, according to the report at the end of the video.

And while in a vacuum that makes sense, that would've been a highly dangerous move that could've risked the person's life. Yes, the carts running away on their own at an aircraft is very dangerous, but playing hero like that also could've been.
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F9Animal
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:05 pm

Wow!! I am just glad no human was in the path of that!! This could have been so much worse. Anyone wanna bet the Port and all airlines across the nation are checking their equipment after that? As for the employee driving it? I don't see him or her at fault here. It appears to be a freak accident for sure.

Brings up a good point for all the ramp rats and cargo rats on this page. In cities like Seattle where the rain is relentless, comes the infamous rust. Double check your equipment!! I know some of the carts I used to pull were older than dirt, and absolutely rust disasters. I never even considered a cart breaking loose when I drove baggage or cargo.

Again, thankful nobody got hurt. How long was the plane out for?
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packmedic
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:07 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
Hitch ring failed, according to the pics. Still, it appears he may have been going too fast? No idea what the ramp and road speed limits are ar SEA.


As I said earlier, read the report at the end of the video. The hitch ring shearing off was a result of it hitting the aircraft, and was the ring in-between carts 1 and 2 of the runaway group. It was not the cause of the runaway. All equipment at the point of detachment was in working order
A319 A320 A321 A321N A332 A333 A359 A388 AT72 B717 B733 B734 B734C B735 B73G B738 B739 B744 B752 B763 B764 B772 B789 B78X CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9 DH8D E135 E140 E145 E170 E175 E190 MD80 MD90
 
HPRamper
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:29 pm

packmedic wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Hitch ring failed, according to the pics. Still, it appears he may have been going too fast? No idea what the ramp and road speed limits are ar SEA.


As I said earlier, read the report at the end of the video. The hitch ring shearing off was a result of it hitting the aircraft, and was the ring in-between carts 1 and 2 of the runaway group. It was not the cause of the runaway. All equipment at the point of detachment was in working order

I've seen the entire hitch section break off the back of tugs with no prior warning and nothing that could be seen or hinted at in a pretrip.
Weird things happen in this business. And yes, I've also seen dollies break away because the pin wasn't dropped completely. At this point it's speculation.
F9Animal wrote:
Wow!! I am just glad no human was in the path of that!! This could have been so much worse. Anyone wanna bet the Port and all airlines across the nation are checking their equipment after that? As for the employee driving it? I don't see him or her at fault here. It appears to be a freak accident for sure.

Seeing it on here was the first I'd heard of it. I work in cargo at SeaTac and it was certainly not something that was brought to our attention in any way.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:22 am

sandyb123 wrote:
alasizon wrote:
sandyb123 wrote:



Thinking as an insurance assessor... If the dollies where taken without permission then I am going to say this is uninsured as they were being used without the owners (and therefore insurers) 'knowledge'. The fact the tow ring failed is irrelevant here as the user wouldn't have been aware of maintenance or knowledge of this fact.

What happens in reality and what should happen by the book are often two different things and insurers know it!

Sandyb123


Most third party ground handlers carry a pretty hefty liability policy that covers them (with an equally as hefty deductible) even if they are in the wrong or not following proper procedures. I don't know that any of the third party groups self-insure, that is mostly left to actual airlines and their subsidiaries. It wouldn't surprise me if this also cost WFS the contract with LH and I think LH also will end up having some payments for the damaged cargo since some of it was mentioned to contain lithium ion batteries which shipping them/using them post damage is a big no-no.


Yes but if I stole your car and crashed it, your insurer wouldn't be liable or pay out for my act. That is basically the same logic that happened here (without the criminal intent bit ;-) )

Yikes as you say if this was ion batteries then agreed they are going nowhere other than to be recycled (hopefully) or landfill.

Sandyb123

Actually, they would do pay for damages under liability coverage; then they would try to recover the cost against the culprit.
If you do not have liability, the victim could still go after you (the owner of the car) and take you to the cleaners (if you have any assets), especially if the actual culprit is never found. Sucks, but it's the reality of things.
 
OB1504
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:05 pm

If WFS was using the Swissport equipment without permission, I wonder if maybe they took dollies that had been removed from service for a reason.

Yeastbeast wrote:
Dude was not watching his mirrors. At all. Could have pulled in front of the runaways. Better to sacrifice the ground equipment.


As quick as they came loose a sudden maneuver like that would risk losing control of the bobtail and the remaining dollies.

Never risk someone’s safety to avoid property damage.

FlyingElvii wrote:
Hitch ring failed, according to the pics. Still, it appears he may have been going too fast? No idea what the ramp and road speed limits are ar SEA.


I want to say it’s either 15 or 20 MPH but it’s been two years since I last worked there so I can’t recall exactly. It’s not uncommon to see people speeding at my current airport but a lot of the older tugs can barely make it up to 15 MPH.
 
chrisp390
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:29 pm

The plane is a write off?
 
timf
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Re: Freight carts detach and crash into a parked Alaska E175

Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:44 pm

chrisp390 wrote:
The plane is a write off?

It was hardly damaged and has been back in service for quite some time.

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