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LAXintl
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Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:09 am

:wideeyed:

Heizo Takenaka, a member of the new Suga administration calling for a "bold mechanism" to assist the aviation industry including having ANA and JAL merge.

Translation:
"He said that the new admininstration should think about a concrete plan for the reorganization of the aviation industry, and said that "ANA and JAL should come together at this time." There are various ways to integrate the two companies, such as separating domestic and international flights, and each has its advantages and disadvantages, and it cannot be done easily. However, he acknowledged that "at least it is an opportunity to create such a bold mechanism."

https://www.bloomberg.co.jp/news/articl ... P5DWRGG301

=

Look at what KAL started :banghead:
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:27 am

I hope this doesn’t happen. BUT if it does, I hope ANA would be the surviving airline. Would be a huge blow to Star Alliance and UA if they lose another Asian airline.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:51 am

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
I hope this doesn’t happen. BUT if it does, I hope ANA would be the surviving airline. Would be a huge blow to Star Alliance and UA if they lose another Asian airline.


With CX on its knees, oneworld would be crippled losing JL as well (and I have a decent JL points balance :) )
S340/J31/146-300/F27/F50/Nord 262/ Q100/200/E195/ 733/734/738/744/762/763/77W/788/789/ 320/321/332/333/345/359
 
Capricorn
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:05 am

Wow if that ends up happening then the Japanese domestic marked would be as close to a monopoly as one can get. NH, JL with all their affiliates (like Peach, Jetstar Japan and so on) surely have market share close to 90%. But if government officials are recommending that then I don't think that this will be seen as a potential problem.

Prior to C19 I would have though that a NH JL merger would be impossible, but stranger things have happened lately. I hope that JL's name and brand will be used should a unified company be created but out of personal preference I hope that the surviving company will remain in Star Alliance.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:40 am

Ok what kind of trend is this.
We saw the AirAsia - Malaysian merger suggestion, we saw KE×OZ merger. What is next? CN3? US3? VA×QF? VS×BA? AirAsia×Lion?
Or Pepsi × Coca Cola?
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
pranav7478
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:15 am

Antaras wrote:
Ok what kind of trend is this.
We saw the AirAsia - Malaysian merger suggestion, we saw KE×OZ merger. What is next? CN3? US3? VA×QF? VS×BA? AirAsia×Lion?
Or Pepsi × Coca Cola?

dont forget emirates and etihad! could also throw in ws and ac or sk and ay
or airbus and boeing ;)
Planes I have flown on: CRJ-900, E175, E190, A319, A320, A321, A330-200, 717, 737-700, 737-800, 747-400, 747-8I, 757-200, 767-300, 777-200, 777-300(ER), 787-8, 787-9
Airlines I have flown on: AI, AS, BA, DL, 6E, 9W, B6, KE, SQ, WN, UA, US, VA
 
Antarius
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:16 am

Kent350787 wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
I hope this doesn’t happen. BUT if it does, I hope ANA would be the surviving airline. Would be a huge blow to Star Alliance and UA if they lose another Asian airline.


With CX on its knees, oneworld would be crippled losing JL as well (and I have a decent JL points balance :) )


I would assume JL would survive. It's the "flag carrier" and people still view the tsurumaru strongly.

Regardless, do not see this actually happening.
Militant Centrist
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Fuling
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:40 am

Antarius wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
I hope this doesn’t happen. BUT if it does, I hope ANA would be the surviving airline. Would be a huge blow to Star Alliance and UA if they lose another Asian airline.


With CX on its knees, oneworld would be crippled losing JL as well (and I have a decent JL points balance :) )


I would assume JL would survive. It's the "flag carrier" and people still view the tsurumaru strongly.

Regardless, do not see this actually happening.


I agree that the merger is highly unlikely and a terrible idea for several reasons. However I would say that ANA would survive. The Japanese government have shown preference to ANA ever since JAL's troubles around 2010, and as this was suggested by a member of the governing party, I'd say it would go to ANA.
 
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AirAfreak
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:46 am

An ideal arrangement, for the sake of passenger service experience, would be to maintain the JAL brand with ANA catering, JAL 787/77W economy wider seat product, Class “J” for the premium economy hard product, (the) Club ANA Suite, and JAL First Class soft product (for the sole purpose of enjoying a flute of ‘Salon’ (an exquisite champagne) across the network)). I would staff the newly-merged JAL (JL/NH) international flights with a mix of the cabin crew whom mainly operate the domestic network (JTO, ANK, Air Japan, WAC, etc.,) in Japan and roster them into the mix of the current international network of flights to allow greater flexibility with crew scheduling due to aircraft certification requirements to operate a particular aircraft type. Also, I’ve noticed an overwhelming thoughtfulness in passenger service delivered by domestic crew in Japan. I don’t know how to articulate these observations exactly, however, there is a service delivery onboard those flights that seem to exceed the spirit of ōmōtenashi (The Art of Hospitality) in that feeling of being “at home” if that makes sense. Anyway, if ANA and JAL should merge, this would be my ideal arrangement and it’s based on my personal experience flying both airlines from the mid-1990’s until now. I dare to dream.
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chonetsao
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:04 am

Fuling wrote:

I agree that the merger is highly unlikely and a terrible idea for several reasons. However I would say that ANA would survive. The Japanese government have shown preference to ANA ever since JAL's troubles around 2010, and as this was suggested by a member of the governing party, I'd say it would go to ANA.


You misunderstood the issue.

ANA got preferential treatment was due to the large bailout of JAL (as ANA did not get one). Japanese government wanted to balance things out in the eyes of public, so it needs to grant ANA more privilege to justify its bailout of JAL. Now the bailout is gone, Japan government no longer needs to balance its favourism. The last round HND slot allocation has shown there is no longer a play buddy with ANA.

As a side note, I do not see ANA+JAL happening unless ANA is in horrible financial trouble that need a state bailout.
 
guillermohs
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:49 am

Can't see such a merger happening. JL is not in a good financial position, but nothing compared to OZ's case AFAIK. Anyway, the pandemic is not even close to finish and the oligopolistic market of airlines might not survive without having to turn into a monopoly.
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:41 am

guillermohs wrote:
Can't see such a merger happening. JL is not in a good financial position, but nothing compared to OZ's case AFAIK. Anyway, the pandemic is not even close to finish and the oligopolistic market of airlines might not survive without having to turn into a monopoly.

With vaccines already on the way and airlines already starting to adapt in the meantime, JL and NH will be battered but are both likely to survive the pandemic. It's not like KE+OZ where they were already in dire straits even before all of this happened.
RIP 9V-SKA
2007 - 2019
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:56 am

IF this would happen (and I highly doubt it) I wouldn’t be surprised that this would be some sort of Continental/United kind of merger: ANA surviving but with the JAL name.
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
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ZKNCL
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:49 pm

I doubt this will happen but who knows what's for certain in the post-COVID aviation industry.

PANAMsterdam wrote:
IF this would happen (and I highly doubt it) I wouldn’t be surprised that this would be some sort of Continental/United kind of merger: ANA surviving but with the JAL name.


The farrago of the UA/CO merger was far more complex, intricate, and mixed than just "CO surviving with the UA name".
 
jplatts
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:29 pm

Keeping the Japan Airlines brand and oneworld membership in the event of a JL-NH merger might probably be the better option due to
(a) the partnerships that JL has with AS and AA in the US,
(b) JL having had nonstop service to TYO from more non-AA hub cities in the contiguous U.S. than NH did from non-UA hub cities in the contiguous U.S. prior to the COVID-19 pandemic,
(c) AS joining the oneworld alliance,
(d) SEA being in a better geographical location than SFO for connections to the Northwest and Midwest from Japan,
(e) AS still serving SEA nonstop from some cities in the Midwest that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from SFO, and
(f) JL being able to strengthen its codeshare partnership with AS if it remains in the oneworld alliance.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:39 pm

jplatts wrote:
Keeping the Japan Airlines brand and oneworld membership in the event of a JL-NH merger might probably be the better option due to
(a) the partnerships that JL has with AS and AA in the US,
(b) JL having had nonstop service to TYO from more non-AA hub cities in the contiguous U.S. than NH did from non-UA hub cities in the contiguous U.S. prior to the COVID-19 pandemic,
(c) AS joining the oneworld alliance,
(d) SEA being in a better geographical location than SFO for connections to the Northwest and Midwest from Japan,
(e) AS still serving SEA nonstop from some cities in the Midwest that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from SFO, and
(f) JL being able to strengthen its codeshare partnership with AS if it remains in the oneworld alliance.


The AS and SEA factors are absolute trivialities in the context of a joint JL/NH network. Like, not even in the Top 50 of things to be concerned with. Look at where they put the seat-miles today: SEA (and destinations sensibly reached by an AS connection in SEA) is a very small fraction.
 
SFOThinker
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:10 pm

Historically, mergers in Japan are messy and lead to years and years of rivalry between factions composed of ex-employees of the two companies merged into one. The classic example is Nissan, which merged with Prince Motors in the Late 1960s, and maintained two personnel departments, and continued to manufacture comparable rival products because of the internal rivalry. It lasted for decades, and got so bad and inefficient that control of financially ailing Nissan ultimately was sold to Renault - which was able to cut through the rivalries, close factories, and cut duplicative products and save the company.
A similar approach would be impossible for a merged airline, of course.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:14 pm

Shinjirarenai !! (Unbelievable!!).
 
BelowTheWing
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:33 pm

jplatts wrote:
Keeping the Japan Airlines brand and oneworld membership in the event of a JL-NH merger might probably be the better option due to
(a) the partnerships that JL has with AS and AA in the US,
(b) JL having had nonstop service to TYO from more non-AA hub cities in the contiguous U.S. than NH did from non-UA hub cities in the contiguous U.S. prior to the COVID-19 pandemic,
(c) AS joining the oneworld alliance,
(d) SEA being in a better geographical location than SFO for connections to the Northwest and Midwest from Japan,
(e) AS still serving SEA nonstop from some cities in the Midwest that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from SFO, and
(f) JL being able to strengthen its codeshare partnership with AS if it remains in the oneworld alliance.


One can easily turn this reasoning around. NH is very much invested in strong partnerships with UA and LH as *A heavyweights. Even more, than the eye may meet at first glance. ANA is making a lot of money with cargo (even without the current high demand, low capacity prices) and is in extensive cargo partnerships with both, UA and LH. Furthermore, ANA was (until COVID-19) about to expand very aggressively into new markets, especially Europe. Taking the US into account, ANA managed to continue operating daily flights to a lot of destinations despite low passenger numbers. But generally speaking, ANA Holdings is much more diversified than JAL. Just don't focus on All Nippon Airways. They also have Air Japan, a very unique and crisis-proof concept, ANA Festa, OCS, ANA Cargo, etc. And they are aiming to even more diversify their business.

Edit// Not to forget Peach, which is making actual money right now. And with the arrival of the A321LR, Peach will change the course of medium-haul flights in Japan. JAL is far behind with 33% stake in Jetstar Japan and ZIPAIR's 787 may actually work like scoot but still need to be filled. Which is still harder compared to the A321LR.

As a matter of fact, if not for the bankruptcy and bailout in 2010, JAL would absolutely croak right now. They just had the opportunity to already reduce their workforce and, most importantly, labor costs. ANA Holdings will do the same now.
 
onwFan
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:12 pm

jplatts wrote:
Keeping the Japan Airlines brand and oneworld membership in the event of a JL-NH merger might probably be the better option due to
(a) the partnerships that JL has with AS and AA in the US,
(b) JL having had nonstop service to TYO from more non-AA hub cities in the contiguous U.S. than NH did from non-UA hub cities in the contiguous U.S. prior to the COVID-19 pandemic,
(c) AS joining the oneworld alliance,
(d) SEA being in a better geographical location than SFO for connections to the Northwest and Midwest from Japan,
(e) AS still serving SEA nonstop from some cities in the Midwest that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from SFO, and
(f) JL being able to strengthen its codeshare partnership with AS if it remains in the oneworld alliance.

I don’t think any of these would matter. The only relevant factor would be that if just the NH/UA JV survives, it would lead to a monopoly on several major TPAC routes to Japan which currently enjoy competition - especially NYC-TYO, SFO-TYO and CHI-TYO; and these are currently some of the largest routes after LAX. Basically we have an AA/LA situation. If an AA/JL JV survives, none of the routes currently having multiple carriers will be left with a monopoly.

That being said, I do not see a JL/NH happening. But I do see NH going through some restructuring like JL did to slim down a bit.
 
JA786A
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:22 pm

A merger is probably unlikely in the near term as this would lead to a domestic monopoly. However I would say that the name "Japan Airlines“ would survive, maybe with an ANA-ish blue brand.

Also, I wouldn't call Heizo Takenaka an "official" as he's not a member of the Suga administration. As stated in the article, he's a member of the government's expert panel on economic growth strategies and thus has made this comment as an economist.
 
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:11 pm

JA786A wrote:
A merger is probably unlikely in the near term as this would lead to a domestic monopoly. However I would say that the name "Japan Airlines“ would survive, maybe with an ANA-ish blue brand.


If a JL-NH merger did happen, BC could further expand its network, both domestically within Japan and internationally to other East Asian and Southeast Asian countries. BC could also partner with airlines such as ZE, 7C, TR, TW, and VJ in order to provide some competition in the Japanese market if an JL-NH merger does happen.
 
jayunited
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:03 am

chonetsao wrote:

ANA got preferential treatment was due to the large bailout of JAL (as ANA did not get one). Japanese government wanted to balance things out in the eyes of public, so it needs to grant ANA more privilege to justify its bailout of JAL. Now the bailout is gone, Japan government no longer needs to balance its favourism. The last round HND slot allocation has shown there is no longer a play buddy with ANA.

As a side note, I do not see ANA+JAL happening unless ANA is in horrible financial trouble that need a state bailout.


Exactly I don't see an ANA-JAL merger happening unless ANA's financial situation deteriorates rapidly.

As recent as early November it was reported even though ANA is loosing money they are still in good financial shape relatively speaking.

JAL is in a bit of trouble, but it is nothing they can't survive as a stand alone carrier as well. I think in the coming months JAL will have to make some tough decisions regarding their LCC's. I know JAL has stated they want to continue to support their LCC subsidiaries and perhaps merger them all into one carrier. However JAL's financial situation may force them to abandon their LCC's to keep JAL afloat. JAL might have to tell their LCC's they either survive on their own or liquidate.
 
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wxman11
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:55 am

chonetsao wrote:

As a side note, I do not see ANA+JAL happening unless ANA is in horrible financial trouble that need a state bailout.


I have to agree with you. Even when I was with ANA, the thought of a merge with JAL will never happen. However, given the current financial state of both airlines due to covid, that idea could be a reality. With ANA holdings plans to issue new shares to raise around JPY200 billion (USD1.9 billion) to bolster its balance sheet, it could be the "seed" that a merger with JAL could become a reality. I suspect that ANA will not allow a merge to happen. From what I recall during my time with ANA, the company is adamant in not seeking help from the government unless, under extremely circumstances, give in.
 
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HECA
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:34 am

TYWoolman wrote:
Shinjirarenai !! (Unbelievable!!).


Best response in this thread till date! :lol:
KL, LH, LX, BA, AF, TK, UX, TP, AZ, HV, SK, IB, WX, UA, AA, US, DL, AC, LA, KQ, MS, 4D, ZA, RJ, QR, EK, CX, HX, JL, SQ, MH, FY, MU, CA, TG, UL, FD, K6
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:34 pm

HECA wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Shinjirarenai !! (Unbelievable!!).


Best response in this thread till date! :lol:


Arigato!
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:23 pm

Haha no competition. The airlines might be down lol. This same person would be mad when airfares go up a ton lol.
 
Ellofiend
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:42 pm

jplatts wrote:
Keeping the Japan Airlines brand and oneworld membership in the event of a JL-NH merger might probably be the better option due to
(a) the partnerships that JL has with AS and AA in the US,
(b) JL having had nonstop service to TYO from more non-AA hub cities in the contiguous U.S. than NH did from non-UA hub cities in the contiguous U.S. prior to the COVID-19 pandemic,
(c) AS joining the oneworld alliance,
(d) SEA being in a better geographical location than SFO for connections to the Northwest and Midwest from Japan,
(e) AS still serving SEA nonstop from some cities in the Midwest that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from SFO, and
(f) JL being able to strengthen its codeshare partnership with AS if it remains in the oneworld alliance.


Im gonna go on a really ambitious limb here, you're from NA, aren't you? As important as the US is for JL and NH, it's only a portion of their network you are forgetting the other 4/5ths of the world in that regard. Europe is important, Asia is VERY important even Oceania is a key part of their network so basing a merger off these trivialities is a major oversight. AS is a drop in the pond, UA is slightly bigger and AA is slightly bigger yet but they are small considerations in the vastness of the aviation market to JL and NH. No-one cares about SEA or SFO or UA/AA hubs or AS when considering a merger of this magnitude, it's like saying "hey we need to decide which city will be the capital...well the one with the most ice-cream stand obviously!"
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:51 pm

Antaras wrote:
Ok what kind of trend is this.
We saw the AirAsia - Malaysian merger suggestion, we saw KE×OZ merger. What is next? CN3? US3? VA×QF? VS×BA? AirAsia×Lion?
Or Pepsi × Coca Cola?


Trump x Biden
Btw LDP not really like JL since the reconstruction is held by the opposition party
 
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Antaras
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:32 am

chunhimlai wrote:
Btw LDP not really like JL since the reconstruction is held by the opposition party

It is ridiculous to see a business being dominated and affected by political stuffs.
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:41 am

The thought of this potential merger crossed my mind this week.
It makes sense in many ways but NH would have to be the initiating airline, ie offering itself for sale to JAL.

As a combined entity, they can right-size the airline for the short-term.

I don't see this happening right away, but if the summer of 2021 is a bust, and so far it isn't looking good, this becomes very likely.
Don't overestimate the vaccines. Very unlikely that herd immunity will be achieved in 2021.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:44 am

Capricorn wrote:
Wow if that ends up happening then the Japanese domestic marked would be as close to a monopoly as one can get.
JA786A wrote:
A merger is probably unlikely in the near term as this would lead to a domestic monopoly.

Members of this board seriously need to take a break and study what a "monopoly" ACTUALLY is....... it's got to be the single most misunderstood and misused concept here.


LAXintl wrote:
Look at what KAL started

You're surprised though? Last round of merger-mania for much of the world was 2008-2012, far longer for the Japanese; we're historically overdue.


****************************
I for one, can't wait until BA/IAG finally (and I'd argue: inevitably) gets Virgin's 35ish remaining aircraft and/or slots...... and when DL finally forms a JV with EK, whenever one finally succeeds in cowing the other.

Gonna be hilarious, reading the reactions by people who still believe that the word "never" actually applies to this industry. :lol:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
MEA-707
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:29 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Capricorn wrote:
Wow if that ends up happening then the Japanese domestic marked would be as close to a monopoly as one can get.
JA786A wrote:
A merger is probably unlikely in the near term as this would lead to a domestic monopoly.

Members of this board seriously need to take a break and study what a "monopoly" ACTUALLY is....... it's got to be the single most misunderstood and misused concept here.


If they merge they would hold 95% of the domestic Japanese market, considering most low cost and Express airlines are also part of their groups. This can lead to price gauging and less incentives to remain lean and mean. How is that not a monopoly?

Anyway if they merge I expect Japan Airlines to be the surviving brand, it is internationally known better and sounds more business like. With ANA people get confused where's they are from.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
airways1
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:48 pm

Does that mean we'll be seeing JAL A380s? :rotfl:
 
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mercure1
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:44 pm

I compared airlines based on their annual report information.
ANA
Passengers - 59.6mil (of which 10.2m international)
Aircraft - 307
Revenue - ¥1,974bil
Employees - 45,849

JAL
Passengers - 43.9mil (9.1m international)
Aircraft - 233
Revenue - ¥1,487bil
Employees - 35,653
mercure f-wtcc
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:43 pm

MEA-707 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Capricorn wrote:
Wow if that ends up happening then the Japanese domestic marked would be as close to a monopoly as one can get.
JA786A wrote:
A merger is probably unlikely in the near term as this would lead to a domestic monopoly.

Members of this board seriously need to take a break and study what a "monopoly" ACTUALLY is....... it's got to be the single most misunderstood and misused concept here.


If they merge they would hold 95% of the domestic Japanese market, considering most low cost and Express airlines are also part of their groups. This can lead to price gauging and less incentives to remain lean and mean. How is that not a monopoly?

Anyway if they merge I expect Japan Airlines to be the surviving brand, it is internationally known better and sounds more business like. With ANA people get confused where's they are from.

Regional names aren't a good thing necessarily. Would a Chinese passenger prefer JAL or ANA?
I see this happening as it allows mass cost cutting.

Lightsaber
7 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:57 pm

I wonder if this would not go without U.S. carrier scrutiny since U.S.-Japan slots have been awarded to two different Japanese carriers in past route proceedings and a merger will tip the balance toward one larger Japanese carrier. The idea I have is that maybe Delta can argue for the Haneda 5th Freedom hub it always wanted as consolation!
 
airways1
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Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:31 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Would a Chinese passenger prefer JAL or ANA?


I don't get your point. Chinese passengers call the airlines by their local names. In Chinese, JAL (日本航空) means Japan Airlines, and ANA (全日空) means All Japan Airlines. It's not like there's any significant difference.
 
GuillaumePhilly
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 12:10 am

Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:40 pm

Antaras wrote:
Ok what kind of trend is this.
Or Pepsi × Coca Cola?


No!! Then what would happen to the majority of "drink wars" threads on here whenever Carrier X drops *insert my favorite beverage here*??
 
Capricorn
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:11 pm

Re: Japanese official suggests ANA-JAL merger

Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:14 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Capricorn wrote:
Wow if that ends up happening then the Japanese domestic marked would be as close to a monopoly as one can get.
JA786A wrote:
A merger is probably unlikely in the near term as this would lead to a domestic monopoly.

Members of this board seriously need to take a break and study what a "monopoly" ACTUALLY is....... it's got to be the single most misunderstood and misused concept here.


?? Well that does depend how you define monopoly, in the truest sense of the word or through another academic discipline. Legally for example a monopoly is its defined differently than in economics, therefore depending on your background the usage of the word monopoly differs. The US for example has various legal precedents that a market share of around 80% is a dejure monopoly even though there is some mostly nominal competition left and in economic terminology might be referred to differently.

Although the courts "have not yet identified a precise level at which monopoly power will be inferred,"(19) they have demanded a dominant market share. Discussions of the requisite market share for monopoly power commonly begin with Judge Hand's statement in United States v. Aluminum Co. of America that a market share of ninety percent "is enough to constitute a monopoly; it is doubtful whether sixty or sixty-four percent would be enough; and certainly thirty-three per cent is not.

The Fifth Circuit observed that "monopolization is rarely found when the defendant's share of the relevant market is below 70%."(22) Similarly, the Tenth Circuit noted that to establish "monopoly power, lower courts generally require a minimum market share of between 70% and 80%."


https://www.justice.gov/atr/competition ... -chapter-2

As I am not from the US I am not an expert for US antitrust laws so if somebody knows better, or what I stated was wrong please correct. Other countries have other levels, but aside from textbook examples and natural or state consented monopolies, IMO seldom a market share of 100% is actually required when speaking of a defacto monopoly. So I don't think that it is wrong to speak in case of an NH and JL mergerin regard to the Japanese domestic market of a defacto and possibly dejure monopoly, albeit I must admit, that I am not familiar with the Japanese law.

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