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alasizon
Posts: 2671
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:20 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I guarantee DL will not fill middle seats for reaccomodation.
That’s a non negotiable these days.
I have been on flights were they have been very firm about not letting on standbys and non revs when they hit the seat cap.

The systems are coded as such they can’t be overridden by gate agents or customer service.


They won't on their own flights but it makes you wonder about OAL re-accom in the outstations.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
usa330300
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:39 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
catiii wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
This is a disgrace. DL just lost itself a billion in goodwill if they knew this was coming and just stood by and watched the train wreck.


Nah, they didn't. No one will even remember this in 3 months.


Yes they will. People still remember the Christmas baggage disaster from 20 years ago.


Not true, and people won't remember this 96 hours.
 
IFlyVeryLittle
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:40 pm

So, in a nutshell, they are leaving behind paying passengers because of something they should have anticipated while every one of their jets takes off with 66 percent capacity in coach. Swell.
 
0newair0
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:43 pm

IFlyVeryLittle wrote:
So, in a nutshell, they are leaving behind paying passengers because of something they should have anticipated while every one of their jets takes off with 66 percent capacity in coach. Swell.
That is a gross mischaracterization of the situation. Flights are being canceled, yes, but passengers are not being "left behind" in any large numbers.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
catiii
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:48 pm

codc10 wrote:
M Delta has forecast significant staffing issues among pilots and flight attendants for a few weeks.



There is no open time in NYC for inflight. This isn't an inflight staffing issue.
 
sldispatcher
Posts: 426
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:51 pm

I am a little shocked it got so close in to time before this happened, but I feel for any corporation trying to navigate covid tainted waters right now. Danged if you do. Danged if you don’t.

Fortunately the vaccine will roll out in 3 weeks. Healthcare/elderly/interstate transportation folks should be first in line.

I participated in trial and got my Pfizer vaccine over a month ago. No problems. Got my antibody test outside of the trial and had robust response.

So hopefully sooner rather than later, Delta and other carriers will start to see the bookings go up, employee security hold firm and cancellation events like this go into the dust bin of history.
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:52 pm

So Delta created a schedule took all these people's money that wanted to travel on Thanksgiving weekend (The busiest day of the year) Knowing full well they couldn't operated the schedules that was put out there to get as many seats out there as they could screwing how many people through basic greed on their part to book as many people as they could. And then people wonder when I'm sour on Delta this is just a reoccurring story different day, different people but same old airline.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
ManoaChris
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:53 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Staffing isn’t a science.


This is one of the more disturbing statements I've read in a long time.
 
0newair0
Posts: 436
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:03 pm

ManoaChris wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Staffing isn’t a science.


This is one of the more disturbing statements I've read in a long time.
How so?

You try to model ever changing "staff behavior" and see how it goes. If you figure it out you will be paid millions for your efforts and your family won't have to work for generations to come.

(not joking)
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
Tack
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:11 pm

catiii wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
This is a disgrace. DL just lost itself a billion in goodwill if they knew this was coming and just stood by and watched the train wreck.


Nah, they didn't. No one will even remember this in 3 months.


Serious? The majority are leisure travelers, for many this is their only flight this year. Jack them around rebooking them to grandma and grandpa’s, while dragging their kids? Not only will they remember, but the “horror” story of their 2020 Thanksgiving flight will be re-told to whoever has ears. Biz travelers are much easier to deal with during irrops. Not a big fan of DL, but they know customer service. Watch and listen, they’ll have a big mea culpa and they’ll make this right with travel vouchers. My guess it’ll be remembered, but more for DL’s service recovery.
 
codc10
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:33 pm

catiii wrote:
codc10 wrote:
M Delta has forecast significant staffing issues among pilots and flight attendants for a few weeks.



There is no open time in NYC for inflight. This isn't an inflight staffing issue.


I did not limit my comment to NYC Inflight, though, and this is based on information from earlier in the day, when F/A staffing issues were affecting a little less than 1/2 the number of flights as pilots.
 
NW
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:58 pm

0newair0 wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
So if DL knew about this, why didn’t they better prepare and have all a plan in advance?
The problem was much worse. You're only seeing what was left over the day of.


Much much worse, scheduling actually did a great job with recovering as much as possible. Tomorrow will be worse, but still a great recovery from the peak of open trips.
 
djack
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:00 pm

The number of cancellations hasn't grown as of this afternoon. Can anyone speak to if this was preplanned a few days out where passengers were reaccommodated and confirmed days before their trip? Checking the cancellation schedule they are in cities with multiple flights per day, atl-ewr, dfw, dca, lga, org, stl, cvg that could allow for easier reacommodations. While it can still be inconvenient, it's a much different story and passenger experience over sitting at the gate with a rolling delay leading to cancellation and scrambling to find alternate flights.

I'd also have to wonder what fluctuation looked like for the airlines on the passenger cancellation side based on CDC recommendations and state restrictions. Again looking at that cancellation list you see a lot of states in the northeast
 
RicFlyer
Topic Author
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:02 pm

DL has already cancelled 130 flights for Thanksgiving Day 11/26. That's 9% of their scheduled flights. They are having a rough few days. Again I hope they get this fixed by Christmas travel.

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/tomorrow
 
n9801f
Posts: 240
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:09 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
Please provide some examples of 48hr delays (good luck with that).

It makes no sense operationally to operate a flight 48 hours late, it would still be considered not completed (cancelled) by DOT statistics. I suppose it might make sense for pax comfort if there's no other way to reroute pax for two days, but I still can't recall a single example of a 48hr delay on DL (or any other carrier for that matter)


@RDUDDJI

FYI HPRamper is absolutely correct.

On multiple occasions I've seen Delta run flights excessively late - by 20 hours, for instance.

These "completed" flights would sometimes even depart from the hangar, so customers couldn't even board them if they tried.
 
n9801f
Posts: 240
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:16 pm

0newair0 wrote:
ManoaChris wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Staffing isn’t a science.


This is one of the more disturbing statements I've read in a long time.
How so?

You try to model ever changing "staff behavior" and see how it goes. If you figure it out you will be paid millions for your efforts and your family won't have to work for generations to come.

(not joking)


Though perhaps you have not seen it done correctly, I have.

Given the enormous cost base of a pilot workforce, and the big costs of unreliability, there's high economic incentive to get pilot staffing exactly right.

And while Delta may have failed here, other highly professional, capable, disciplined, objective, process- and analytically-oriented companies such as American, United, etc. have at times done this extremely well.

It is possible.
 
CaptainLeo
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:11 pm

DL has cut their schedule because of a severe drop in passenger traffic with the increase of covid cases across the country. They had increased flying in hopes of more pax traffic but that did not materialize, and more people are cancelling trips than booking them. The next few weeks will be much like March/April but on a lower scale. The notion that this is due to crew staffing isn’t true. The schedules were built with the reduced pilot staffing. In fact IFS is overstaffed from all the people they called back for December.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:24 pm

0newair0 wrote:
IFlyVeryLittle wrote:
So, in a nutshell, they are leaving behind paying passengers because of something they should have anticipated while every one of their jets takes off with 66 percent capacity in coach. Swell.
That is a gross mischaracterization of the situation. Flights are being canceled, yes, but passengers are not being "left behind" in any large numbers.

Agreed, I brought up this thread and my relatives were worried I might not make it back. I responded, "I might have to risk an Atlanta connection."

I find this facinating. But by my estimate, some pilots are taking over $30k paycuts, so I would stay in the old seat as long as possible.

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
0newair0
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:31 pm

CaptainLeo wrote:
The notion that this is due to crew staffing isn’t true


This is not true. The cancelations occurring today, and through the remainder of the week are because there are no pilots staffing them. Plenty of data available via internal sources to confirm this.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
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75driver
Posts: 145
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:37 pm

The company definitely failed here but it’s on several fronts. This is the downside of VEOP’s, pilots lacking recency training, jettisoned fleets with pilots who need training on what aircraft is available, UNA’s, slips not being picked up at their usual rate, etc. It’s a whole host of issues and not one single issue. Hopefully the LOA approved today will make this event less likely come Xmas.
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:38 pm

0newair0 wrote:
CaptainLeo wrote:
The notion that this is due to crew staffing isn’t true


This is not true. The cancelations occurring today, and through the remainder of the week are because there are no pilots staffing them. Plenty of data available via internal sources to confirm this.


But you are Delta and you know this before hand. Why would you sell flights that you know you are not going to operate. That's just plain scamming customers and very unethical. Why lay off pilots before the Thanksgiving week the busiest day of the year.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:43 pm

RicFlyer wrote:
DL has already cancelled 130 flights for Thanksgiving Day 11/26. That's 9% of their scheduled flights. They are having a rough few days. Again I hope they get this fixed by Christmas travel.

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/tomorrow

Did they sell enough tickets to justify the flights? I have been 1 of 5 passengers on a TCON on Thanksgiving day. If pilots are in short supply, rest them on a day without demand.

This isn't world class, but no one will remember this after all the other 2020 chaos.

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:13 pm

n9801f wrote:
0newair0 wrote:
ManoaChris wrote:

This is one of the more disturbing statements I've read in a long time.
How so?

You try to model ever changing "staff behavior" and see how it goes. If you figure it out you will be paid millions for your efforts and your family won't have to work for generations to come.

(not joking)


Though perhaps you have not seen it done correctly, I have.

Given the enormous cost base of a pilot workforce, and the big costs of unreliability, there's high economic incentive to get pilot staffing exactly right.

And while Delta may have failed here, other highly professional, capable, disciplined, objective, process- and analytically-oriented companies such as American, United, etc. have at times done this extremely well.

It is possible.


The difference between “exactly right” and having too few or too many staff is very thin. Then, add in the “mother of all displacement” bids; the training cascade, the holidays (shocking but people do call in sick during a holiday), a pandemic messing with shifting demand; it’s very easy to see how Delta staffing missed. Perhaps, mgt at those lines are saying, “how come we have pilots sitting around”.
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:20 pm

lightsaber wrote:
RicFlyer wrote:
DL has already cancelled 130 flights for Thanksgiving Day 11/26. That's 9% of their scheduled flights. They are having a rough few days. Again I hope they get this fixed by Christmas travel.

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/tomorrow

Did they sell enough tickets to justify the flights? I have been 1 of 5 passengers on a TCON on Thanksgiving day. If pilots are in short supply, rest them on a day without demand.

This isn't world class, but no one will remember this after all the other 2020 chaos.

Lightsaber


That's why we have to keep shining light on these things so people don't forget.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:23 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
n9801f wrote:
0newair0 wrote:
How so?

You try to model ever changing "staff behavior" and see how it goes. If you figure it out you will be paid millions for your efforts and your family won't have to work for generations to come.

(not joking)


Though perhaps you have not seen it done correctly, I have.

Given the enormous cost base of a pilot workforce, and the big costs of unreliability, there's high economic incentive to get pilot staffing exactly right.

And while Delta may have failed here, other highly professional, capable, disciplined, objective, process- and analytically-oriented companies such as American, United, etc. have at times done this extremely well.

It is possible.


The difference between “exactly right” and having too few or too many staff is very thin. Then, add in the “mother of all displacement” bids; the training cascade, the holidays (shocking but people do call in sick during a holiday), a pandemic messing with shifting demand; it’s very easy to see how Delta staffing missed. Perhaps, mgt at those lines are saying, “how come we have pilots sitting around”.


Because if we don't have them we are going to have so very disappointed customer and we don't want that. Very simple. A good well balanced organization that has all people's best interest at heart will get that and if not they are pretty poorly managed.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
AZORMP
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:31 pm

klm617 wrote:
So Delta created a schedule took all these people's money that wanted to travel on Thanksgiving weekend (The busiest day of the year) Knowing full well they couldn't operated the schedules that was put out there to get as many seats out there as they could screwing how many people through basic greed on their part to book as many people as they could. And then people wonder when I'm sour on Delta this is just a reoccurring story different day, different people but same old airline.



Delta created a schedule that they were going to fly and the staffing didn’t line up due to a mixture of training, the COVID spike, and potentially other issues. These aren’t rubes we’re talking about here, these people are experts and good at what they do. Most of the time it works. Sometimes it doesn’t. And when it doesn’t, it gets handled as efficiently as possible.

From my time on this board I’ve discovered that you seem to have a very deep-seated hatred for Delta and their employees based on ONE incident. That is by definition an overreaction and frankly is cause for serious concern. Your behavior is akin to someone who has found evidence of repeated high-profile scandals instead of a guy who got upset because he missed his connection in Atlanta. “Shine a light” on it so people don’t forget it? Are you serious?

Seriously dude. Get over it.
Kalamazoo’s Radio Man

The RJ2 sucks.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:39 pm

klm617 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
RicFlyer wrote:
DL has already cancelled 130 flights for Thanksgiving Day 11/26. That's 9% of their scheduled flights. They are having a rough few days. Again I hope they get this fixed by Christmas travel.

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/tomorrow

Did they sell enough tickets to justify the flights? I have been 1 of 5 passengers on a TCON on Thanksgiving day. If pilots are in short supply, rest them on a day without demand.

This isn't world class, but no one will remember this after all the other 2020 chaos.

Lightsaber


That's why we have to keep shining light on these things so people don't forget.

Are you going to shine the light on all airlines equally? As a DL passenger on Sunday, I can tell you I am not concerned. The fraction of flights impacted is small

If there is a real concern, my sister would like the dispatch rate of the E170/175 investigated. She has missed too many connections, but that is AA.

Delta had an absolutely rock star track record pre-Covid19. I bet they will post 2020. Most news is covering the pilot deal:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1454565


Even as an AvGeek, I won't remember this in 6 months, this wasn't that bad a botch. Seriously, a bad winter day at ORD or DEN puts this to shame.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=de ... RE&PC=U316

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHWXD5_SyP8

You might want to shine a light on this, but this hasn't created a blip. If anything, how Delta is handling everything makes me more likely to fly on them again.

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
flight152
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:22 pm

lightsaber wrote:
klm617 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Did they sell enough tickets to justify the flights? I have been 1 of 5 passengers on a TCON on Thanksgiving day. If pilots are in short supply, rest them on a day without demand.

This isn't world class, but no one will remember this after all the other 2020 chaos.

Lightsaber


That's why we have to keep shining light on these things so people don't forget.

Are you going to shine the light on all airlines equally? As a DL passenger on Sunday, I can tell you I am not concerned. The fraction of flights impacted is small

If there is a real concern, my sister would like the dispatch rate of the E170/175 investigated. She has missed too many connections, but that is AA.

Delta had an absolutely rock star track record pre-Covid19. I bet they will post 2020. Most news is covering the pilot deal:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1454565


Even as an AvGeek, I won't remember this in 6 months, this wasn't that bad a botch. Seriously, a bad winter day at ORD or DEN puts this to shame.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=de ... RE&PC=U316

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHWXD5_SyP8

You might want to shine a light on this, but this hasn't created a blip. If anything, how Delta is handling everything makes me more likely to fly on them again.

Lightsaber

So far Delta has canceled 242 flight tomorrow (17%). That is not a small number.
 
JohanTally
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:23 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
How on earth is this even possible?

Can someone elaborate a bit more how this even happened?
Did they add a bunch of trips after the bid period?
Was their a disconnect between marketing and flight ops on the number of available crews by fleet type (who are current)?


I’d bet on a normal day in normal times, an airline the size of DL could cancel 83 flights for crew issues—duty times, crews out of position for local weather or maintenance problems. Staffing isn’t a science.


DL will have more cancellations today than all other major US Airlines including regionals combined. I'm glad they have lowered their cash burn but sounds like it was to the detriment of passengers traveling for the holidays.
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:47 pm

lightsaber wrote:
klm617 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Did they sell enough tickets to justify the flights? I have been 1 of 5 passengers on a TCON on Thanksgiving day. If pilots are in short supply, rest them on a day without demand.

This isn't world class, but no one will remember this after all the other 2020 chaos.

Lightsaber


That's why we have to keep shining light on these things so people don't forget.

Are you going to shine the light on all airlines equally? As a DL passenger on Sunday, I can tell you I am not concerned. The fraction of flights impacted is small

If there is a real concern, my sister would like the dispatch rate of the E170/175 investigated. She has missed too many connections, but that is AA.

Delta had an absolutely rock star track record pre-Covid19. I bet they will post 2020. Most news is covering the pilot deal:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1454565


Even as an AvGeek, I won't remember this in 6 months, this wasn't that bad a botch. Seriously, a bad winter day at ORD or DEN puts this to shame.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=de ... RE&PC=U316

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHWXD5_SyP8

You might want to shine a light on this, but this hasn't created a blip. If anything, how Delta is handling everything makes me more likely to fly on them again.

Lightsaber


As I fly Delta mostly and it's my hub airline I only comment on my first hand experiences. I haven't flown AA or UA enough to make a qualified statement but I've flown Delta plenty and when ever I've connected in ATL I have issues. I avoid that mad house at all cost unless there is absolutely no other option that can do a better job for getting me from point A to B so it's not really fare to comment on other carriers.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
catiii
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:23 am

Tack wrote:
catiii wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
This is a disgrace. DL just lost itself a billion in goodwill if they knew this was coming and just stood by and watched the train wreck.


Nah, they didn't. No one will even remember this in 3 months.


Serious? The majority are leisure travelers, for many this is their only flight this year. Jack them around rebooking them to grandma and grandpa’s, while dragging their kids? Not only will they remember, but the “horror” story of their 2020 Thanksgiving flight will be re-told to whoever has ears. Biz travelers are much easier to deal with during irrops. Not a big fan of DL, but they know customer service. Watch and listen, they’ll have a big mea culpa and they’ll make this right with travel vouchers. My guess it’ll be remembered, but more for DL’s service recovery.


Leisure travelers who always book on price. No one will remember any of this, and if they do if DL is the lowest price they’ll book it still.

And I work for a competitor. This is what, maybe 5% of today’s schedule?
 
catiii
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:24 am

flight152 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
klm617 wrote:

That's why we have to keep shining light on these things so people don't forget.

Are you going to shine the light on all airlines equally? As a DL passenger on Sunday, I can tell you I am not concerned. The fraction of flights impacted is small

If there is a real concern, my sister would like the dispatch rate of the E170/175 investigated. She has missed too many connections, but that is AA.

Delta had an absolutely rock star track record pre-Covid19. I bet they will post 2020. Most news is covering the pilot deal:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1454565


Even as an AvGeek, I won't remember this in 6 months, this wasn't that bad a botch. Seriously, a bad winter day at ORD or DEN puts this to shame.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=de ... RE&PC=U316

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHWXD5_SyP8

You might want to shine a light on this, but this hasn't created a blip. If anything, how Delta is handling everything makes me more likely to fly on them again.

Lightsaber

So far Delta has canceled 242 flight tomorrow (17%). That is not a small number.


It is irrelevant if the cancel and combine package they ran gets everyone where they are going around the same time.
 
catiii
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:26 am

klm617 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
RicFlyer wrote:
DL has already cancelled 130 flights for Thanksgiving Day 11/26. That's 9% of their scheduled flights. They are having a rough few days. Again I hope they get this fixed by Christmas travel.

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/tomorrow

Did they sell enough tickets to justify the flights? I have been 1 of 5 passengers on a TCON on Thanksgiving day. If pilots are in short supply, rest them on a day without demand.

This isn't world class, but no one will remember this after all the other 2020 chaos.

Lightsaber


That's why we have to keep shining light on these things so people don't forget.


Lol. “People.” Delta pre pandemic flies what, 400M pax a year? I’m sure those “people” are looking to you to remind them.

Laughable.
 
catiii
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:28 am

codc10 wrote:
catiii wrote:
codc10 wrote:
M Delta has forecast significant staffing issues among pilots and flight attendants for a few weeks.



There is no open time in NYC for inflight. This isn't an inflight staffing issue.


I did not limit my comment to NYC Inflight, though, and this is based on information from earlier in the day, when F/A staffing issues were affecting a little less than 1/2 the number of flights as pilots.


There was, as of this morning, practically no open time in Atlanta as well. My sister in law is an Atlanta based F/A. Nothing in the pot.

It’s a pilot issue. Not an inflight issue.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:12 am

75driver wrote:
The company definitely failed here but it’s on several fronts. This is the downside of VEOP’s, pilots lacking recency training, jettisoned fleets with pilots who need training on what aircraft is available, UNA’s, slips not being picked up at their usual rate, etc. It’s a whole host of issues and not one single issue. Hopefully the LOA approved today will make this event less likely come Xmas.


Are you suggesting that this was a form of job action by DL pilots? That the LOA made miraculously-better?
 
joeblow10
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:23 am

wjcandee wrote:
75driver wrote:
The company definitely failed here but it’s on several fronts. This is the downside of VEOP’s, pilots lacking recency training, jettisoned fleets with pilots who need training on what aircraft is available, UNA’s, slips not being picked up at their usual rate, etc. It’s a whole host of issues and not one single issue. Hopefully the LOA approved today will make this event less likely come Xmas.


Are you suggesting that this was a form of job action by DL pilots? That the LOA made miraculously-better?


no... there are plenty of pilots who aren’t currently flying or displaced and not current on fleet type. Those who are are much more senior and more unlikely to take trips over the holidays, let alone pick up time. Makes things very hard in terms of crew supply when you add flight demand relatively last minute.

Now, I agree, not sure what the LOA will solve here. Those not flying just get a little bit of pay
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:43 am

Shocked this isn't breaking news everywhere!

/sarcasm
@DadCelo
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:53 am

Delta's hubris has caught up with them. And no, I don't think they will make it right. This is the same airline that "delayed" JFK-TLV for 18 hours and made passengers sleep on the floor. No hotel vouchers given out. AA and UA have their flaws but they never stretched delays for days on end to avoid having a cancellation show up on the DOT stats.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:54 am

Funny this is that in a normal year the national media would lead this as their breaking news on the day before Thanksgiving. They would have their misery maps, flight trackers, reporters curbside airports, and requisite B roll footage of long security lines, packed terminals, and stock footage of Eastern airlines 727s and TWA L011s, and AA MD80s leading the evening newscasts. They claim how miserable it is, show the cancellations on the flight boards, and get some idiotic “man on the street” interviews from random passengers flying to CID to visit grandma.

This year....,nothing. Buried deep in the newscasts a little bit of flight shaming for those traveling and that it’s the busiest it’s been since March.
 
Tack
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:47 am

catiii wrote:
Tack wrote:
catiii wrote:

Nah, they didn't. No one will even remember this in 3 months.


Serious? The majority are leisure travelers, for many this is their only flight this year. Jack them around rebooking them to grandma and grandpa’s, while dragging their kids? Not only will they remember, but the “horror” story of their 2020 Thanksgiving flight will be re-told to whoever has ears. Biz travelers are much easier to deal with during irrops. Not a big fan of DL, but they know customer service. Watch and listen, they’ll have a big mea culpa and they’ll make this right with travel vouchers. My guess it’ll be remembered, but more for DL’s service recovery.


Leisure travelers who always book on price. No one will remember any of this, and if they do if DL is the lowest price they’ll book it still.

And I work for a competitor. This is what, maybe 5% of today’s schedule?


Retired after 36 years with AS. Leisure travelers have a way longer memory than biz travelers. If I had a dime for everyone leisure flyer who loved to tell me how we messed em up during the most important trip of their life, whenever that was. What I found was that if AS at least tried to make it right, the story usually ended with, “but you gave me xx dollars off my next flight, that’s why I’m flying now”. I agree about the price aspect of these travelers, but you all must be way better than we were at AS cause we got a blow by blow from a boat load of once a year’ers. YMMV, but that’s my experience.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:19 am

This is the bitter fruit of the protracted pilot negotiation. ALPA didn't want to give up anything, they didn't want to do the 25% reduction like the non-cons. "Me, me me." An agreement was eventually reached, but chaos has ensued because of the timing. Fortunately, the MEC chairman has been replaced. And don't forget, their contract became amenable at the worst possible time. The "pound the table and dictate," leadership at the union got sucker punched by Covid.
 
flyinggoat
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:25 am

I flew Delta today (I’m at the airport waiting on a ride right now). SEA-ATL-FAY on a 739 and CR9. No issues whatsoever, and I didn’t even know anything was wrong until I saw this thread. ATL seemed pretty normal, or at least consistent with the numerous other times I’ve connected through it since the whole COVID thing started.
 
n9801f
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:47 am

AZORMP wrote:
These aren’t rubes we’re talking about here, these people are experts and good at what they do.

If you compare their resumes and results with their peers at other airlines, you might notice some important differences.

And Delta's staffing meltdown looks especially bad when you remember that they furloughed zero pilots. Their peers who did furlough pilots, and who also had massive staffing rebids, seem to be performing better despite suffering heavier churn.


AZORMP wrote:
From my time on this board I’ve discovered that you seem to have a very deep-seated hatred for Delta and their employees based on ONE incident.

This culture of trying to discredit someone rather than talk about facts is a competitive disadvantage for Delta. Rather than focus objectively on business - which American, United do - this pulls the conversation to an irrelevant personal level.

Most customers, lenders, and shareholders are more persuaded by substance than your personal feelings.

In this case the facts don't look very favorable for Delta. But please persuade me otherwise with a fact-based argument.
 
Detroit313
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:00 am

It is a much bigger mess tomorrow already.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:14 am

Detroit313 wrote:
It is a much bigger mess tomorrow already.


And tomorrow's not usually a big air travel day. Oy.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:23 am

wjcandee wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
It is a much bigger mess tomorrow already.


And tomorrow's not usually a big air travel day. Oy.


True but there also far fewer flights. Last year, I flew on Thanksgiving day and somehow DL misconnected this family flying LAX-MSP-MDW. They ended up having to book them on my AA MSP-ORD flight because there was only one more DL flight headed to Chicago that day and it did not have six seats.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:10 am

usflyer msp wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
It is a much bigger mess tomorrow already.


And tomorrow's not usually a big air travel day. Oy.


True but there also far fewer flights. Last year, I flew on Thanksgiving day and somehow DL misconnected this family flying LAX-MSP-MDW. They ended up having to book them on my AA MSP-ORD flight because there was only one more DL flight headed to Chicago that day and it did not have six seats.


Yeah with any luck, they can put them on other airlines and such.

My point, although I probably didn't express it so well, was that given the fewer number of flights that I expected would be flying tomorrow, if it's a "bigger mess", then that's particularly-bad. One would think they could cover the lower number of flights, but I guess not.
 
0newair0
Posts: 436
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:44 pm

wjcandee wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
wjcandee wrote:

And tomorrow's not usually a big air travel day. Oy.


True but there also far fewer flights. Last year, I flew on Thanksgiving day and somehow DL misconnected this family flying LAX-MSP-MDW. They ended up having to book them on my AA MSP-ORD flight because there was only one more DL flight headed to Chicago that day and it did not have six seats.


Yeah with any luck, they can put them on other airlines and such.

My point, although I probably didn't express it so well, was that given the fewer number of flights that I expected would be flying tomorrow, if it's a "bigger mess", then that's particularly-bad. One would think they could cover the lower number of flights, but I guess not.
I think one of the points being missed by everyone here is that there are pilots available to cover many of these flights, but they are opting not to.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:47 pm

Matthew Klint, from Live And Let's Fly is now speculating that the DL operational mess "may" be a deliberate action by DL employees to mess up people's T-Day plans:

https://liveandletsfly.com/delta-thanks ... ellations/

He's usually a pretty level headed blogger but I find it hard to believe his hypothesis, which he freely admits is speculative at best.
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
RicFlyer
Topic Author
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Re: Delta 83 Cancellations 11/25 What Happened?

Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:31 pm

As of 8:30am EST DL has cancelled 257 flights or18% of it's schedule. Again it's just hard to believe an airline with such a great operational record the last few years is having a rough Thanksgiving weekend when weather is not a major issue.

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