Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
ltbewr wrote:Here is the official publication of the rule on this.https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... 20Rule.pdf
It pretty much limits to certified trained dogs as service animals. All other animals in cabin transportation would no longer be able to use the 'emotional support' loophole and have to pay the appropiate fees. Of course, I wonder how long before a lawsuit on this on ADA grounds.
wnflyguy wrote:The DOT covered Every angle on this new ruling and worked with every ADA official group to set forth new regulations.
Good riddance to the Scammers and abused ESA BS system.
Flyguy
AWACSooner wrote:I guess Chuckles, my emotional support cobra, will be going in the cargo hold from now on. What could possibly go wrong with that?
Cubsrule wrote:AWACSooner wrote:I guess Chuckles, my emotional support cobra, will be going in the cargo hold from now on. What could possibly go wrong with that?
I was on an AA flight a couple of years ago that was delayed by some tomfoolery involving an emotional support parrot who ultimately flew. If that delay had caused folks to misconnect, I don’t expect the parrot would have left the aircraft alive.
EA CO AS wrote:wnflyguy wrote:The DOT covered Every angle on this new ruling and worked with every ADA official group to set forth new regulations.
Good riddance to the Scammers and abused ESA BS system.
Flyguy
A hundred different vendors on Amazon who hawk "SUPPORT ANIMAL" labeled vests, harnesses, and other pet paraphernalia just saw their incomes go up in smoke. Good riddance indeed.
I've seen several instances where a trained service animal was attacked by these "emotional support" ones that are really just pets masquerading as support animals to circumvent pet fees, and the attack undoes untold numbers of hours of training costing tens of thousands of dollars, as the poor service animal - who has been trained to not fear attack from other animals - suddenly is incapable of doing their job after that.
All so someone could avoid paying $100 and keep their Chihuahua on their lap.
MrPeanut wrote:The animals made the zoo like experience of flying more realistic. It’s a shame they are doing away with this entertainment.
Cubsrule wrote:AWACSooner wrote:I guess Chuckles, my emotional support cobra, will be going in the cargo hold from now on. What could possibly go wrong with that?
I was on an AA flight a couple of years ago that was delayed by some tomfoolery involving an emotional support parrot who ultimately flew. If that delay had caused folks to misconnect, I don’t expect the parrot would have left the aircraft alive.
EA CO AS wrote:wnflyguy wrote:The DOT covered Every angle on this new ruling and worked with every ADA official group to set forth new regulations.
Good riddance to the Scammers and abused ESA BS system.
Flyguy
A hundred different vendors on Amazon who hawk "SUPPORT ANIMAL" labeled vests, harnesses, and other pet paraphernalia just saw their incomes go up in smoke.
zeke wrote:What is so terrifying about flying in the US, the rest of the world seems to be able to check their pets in.
zeke wrote:What is so terrifying about flying in the US, the rest of the world seems to be able to check their pets in.
AWACSooner wrote:I guess Chuckles, my emotional support cobra, will be going in the cargo hold from now on. What could possibly go wrong with that?
AWACSooner wrote:I guess Chuckles, my emotional support cobra, will be going in the cargo hold from now on. What could possibly go wrong with that?
twincommander wrote:Cubsrule wrote:AWACSooner wrote:I guess Chuckles, my emotional support cobra, will be going in the cargo hold from now on. What could possibly go wrong with that?
I was on an AA flight a couple of years ago that was delayed by some tomfoolery involving an emotional support parrot who ultimately flew. If that delay had caused folks to misconnect, I don’t expect the parrot would have left the aircraft alive.
Reminds me of Jerry Reed's "The Bird"
txjim wrote:AWACSooner wrote:I guess Chuckles, my emotional support cobra, will be going in the cargo hold from now on. What could possibly go wrong with that?
I have an Emotional Support Mongoose, maybe they can share a cage!
RL757PVD wrote:The airlines did this to themselves.... they want $250 RT or $375 for a 3 leg itinerary for my 9 pound dog to go under the seat in front of me. 50% of the time the seatmate had no idea there was even a dog there. If the fee was commensurate with the space and cost (i.e $25 each way), people wouldn't have abused the system.
davescj wrote:RL757PVD wrote:The airlines did this to themselves.... they want $250 RT or $375 for a 3 leg itinerary for my 9 pound dog to go under the seat in front of me. 50% of the time the seatmate had no idea there was even a dog there. If the fee was commensurate with the space and cost (i.e $25 each way), people wouldn't have abused the system.
I would guess the fees came from a few things. Number one, of course, was a revenue stream. A second reason was probably the amount of times pets had to be cleaned up after so, which created the third thing, which was high costs to discourage animals coming. But, I suspect as well, if animals died in transit, the liability went up consequently so did customer cost.
davescj wrote:RL757PVD wrote:The airlines did this to themselves.... they want $250 RT or $375 for a 3 leg itinerary for my 9 pound dog to go under the seat in front of me. 50% of the time the seatmate had no idea there was even a dog there. If the fee was commensurate with the space and cost (i.e $25 each way), people wouldn't have abused the system.
I would guess the fees came from a few things. Number one, of course, was a revenue stream. A second reason was probably the amount of times pets had to be cleaned up after so, which created the third thing, which was high costs to discourage animals coming. But, I suspect as well, if animals died in transit, the liability went up consequently so did customer cost.
cjg225 wrote:twincommander wrote:Cubsrule wrote:
I was on an AA flight a couple of years ago that was delayed by some tomfoolery involving an emotional support parrot who ultimately flew. If that delay had caused folks to misconnect, I don’t expect the parrot would have left the aircraft alive.
Reminds me of Jerry Reed's "The Bird"
Really? A parrot joke and that's the one you come up with? Not Monty Python's Dead Parrot sketch?
WA707atMSP wrote:I was mauled by a dog when I was six years old, and I've been terrified of dogs ever since.
RDUDDJI wrote:WA707atMSP wrote:I was mauled by a dog when I was six years old, and I've been terrified of dogs ever since.
I can empathize. My niece was attacked by a police K-9 when she was 7 (at their church of all places). Come to find out, she was the third child attacked by this supposedly well trained dog that wasn't on a leash (which ironically is against the county's own rules).
Thankfully my niece's family has their own dog (a Pit of all things) and I think that's been good therapy for her but she'll need plastic surgery when she's older to fix the big scars on her thigh. For a long time she was afraid to go anywhere there might be "police dogs".
It is a good to remember that no matter how well trained a dog is, it's still a dog with a mind of its own. In the case of ESA animals, there is no training, so it's not surprising there are so many incidents.
What upsets me about the current ESA policies is that the airlines are virtually powerless to stop people from abusing the policies. And inevitably when these dogs attack people on their planes, the airlines are the ones that get sued. I'm sure lawyers love it, but it's hardly fair.
jeffrey0032j wrote:txjim wrote:AWACSooner wrote:I guess Chuckles, my emotional support cobra, will be going in the cargo hold from now on. What could possibly go wrong with that?
I have an Emotional Support Mongoose, maybe they can share a cage!
Add a Gopro in the cage, will be fun to watch.
Miamiairport wrote:And I know I should shut up on this topic. But people that think they need to travel with their dog or cat forget how traumatic it is for their dog or cat when that animal is suddenly introduced into a very unfamiliar environment. People forget how much more sensitive hearing is to a cat or dog. Imagine what an airplane environment does to the animal's sense of security. No wonder when I often look at these pets they have that look of sheer terror in their eyes. And no surprise that a well trained dog or cat suddenly goes on the attack or simply "unloads" all over the seat or carpet.
Miamiairport wrote:Now I know some pets are well behaved albeit do I really want to maneuver over a Great Dane to get to the lav?
lightsaber wrote:I don't understand why people need an emotional support animal. When I travel for liesure, I always travel with my dog. Delta just made $250 off my under the seat sleeping dog. (You won't even know she is there).
I do this as I like my dog and refuse to scam a fake emotional support pet.
Note: no terror for my dog. She dislikes the bag, but is ok as she loves the destinations. I know her hearing us great as only myself and one daughter can also hear among all our neighbors the distant owl she'll get into an argument with... (who-who... bark bark... who-who...)
When told "no dog", I happily change my travel plans.
Lightsaber
KFLLCFII wrote:EA CO AS wrote:wnflyguy wrote:The DOT covered Every angle on this new ruling and worked with every ADA official group to set forth new regulations.
Good riddance to the Scammers and abused ESA BS system.
Flyguy
A hundred different vendors on Amazon who hawk "SUPPORT ANIMAL" labeled vests, harnesses, and other pet paraphernalia just saw their incomes go up in smoke.
Why? They'll just change the wording to "SERVICE ANIMAL" and the passengers will sign whatever silly attestation form the DOT comes up with.
RL757PVD wrote:The airlines did this to themselves.... they want $250 RT or $375 for a 3 leg itinerary for my 9 pound dog to go under the seat in front of me. 50% of the time the seatmate had no idea there was even a dog there. If the fee was commensurate with the space and cost (i.e $25 each way), people wouldn't have abused the system.
EA CO AS wrote:KFLLCFII wrote:EA CO AS wrote:
A hundred different vendors on Amazon who hawk "SUPPORT ANIMAL" labeled vests, harnesses, and other pet paraphernalia just saw their incomes go up in smoke.
Why? They'll just change the wording to "SERVICE ANIMAL" and the passengers will sign whatever silly attestation form the DOT comes up with.
Because the forms, just like the ones these BS scam artists sell online, have to state it's a service animal. And there's a very clear definition of what a service animal is. An "emotional support" animal didn't require that; you'd just get the online BS scam artist to "evaluate you" over the phone and they'd write something vague saying you suffered from PTSD or whatever and required an emotional support animal.
Can't do that with a service animal, which now, by DOT definition, is a DOG that performs a SERVICE for you. Just existing isn't a service, and that's what emotional support animals did.
KFLLCFII wrote:EA CO AS wrote:KFLLCFII wrote:
Why? They'll just change the wording to "SERVICE ANIMAL" and the passengers will sign whatever silly attestation form the DOT comes up with.
Because the forms, just like the ones these BS scam artists sell online, have to state it's a service animal. And there's a very clear definition of what a service animal is. An "emotional support" animal didn't require that; you'd just get the online BS scam artist to "evaluate you" over the phone and they'd write something vague saying you suffered from PTSD or whatever and required an emotional support animal.
Can't do that with a service animal, which now, by DOT definition, is a DOG that performs a SERVICE for you. Just existing isn't a service, and that's what emotional support animals did.
That's not going to stop anyone from slapping a "SERVICE ANIMAL" device on their dog and signing the form.
slvrblt wrote:RL757PVD wrote:The airlines did this to themselves.... they want $250 RT or $375 for a 3 leg itinerary for my 9 pound dog to go under the seat in front of me. 50% of the time the seatmate had no idea there was even a dog there. If the fee was commensurate with the space and cost (i.e $25 each way), people wouldn't have abused the system.
I think the idea was to dissuade people from flying with pets, not so much the revenue stream. Pets in cabin cause other issues with soiling, constant barking or whining. I once sat near a lady and her yorkie that yapped for three straight hours, while she thought that was so cute. Then there's reaccommodation required for those with pet allergies, or pet phobias (from those that had previous bad experiences) there was always an issue it seemed. Then some customers try and cram a 40 pound dog into a small carryon and think its ok. Then the arguments start. The poor dog looks like a cartoon character, unable to move, fur and legs sticking out everywhere at un-natural angles. But hey, that's ok for some owners.
The cabin pets are more trouble than it's worth; ship them as cargo or not at all. Preferably, not at all; some pets perish due to the sheer terror, poor things , they don't understand what's happening to them, all their sensitive ears hear are roaring sounds of APU's, engines, belt-loaders, cargo loaders, etc right next to them as they sit in their kennels. Then there's the roar of takeoff, and on and on. I would NEVER ship my pet like that, I love them too much to do that to them. I'll drive them; even if cross-country.
EA CO AS wrote:KFLLCFII wrote:EA CO AS wrote:
Because the forms, just like the ones these BS scam artists sell online, have to state it's a service animal. And there's a very clear definition of what a service animal is. An "emotional support" animal didn't require that; you'd just get the online BS scam artist to "evaluate you" over the phone and they'd write something vague saying you suffered from PTSD or whatever and required an emotional support animal.
Can't do that with a service animal, which now, by DOT definition, is a DOG that performs a SERVICE for you. Just existing isn't a service, and that's what emotional support animals did.
That's not going to stop anyone from slapping a "SERVICE ANIMAL" device on their dog and signing the form.
I think you're missing the point; they're not signing the form. Their DOCTOR is. Physicians, even the sketchy online ones, are generally okay with saying someone would benefit from having an emotional support animal, but now they'd have to be saying the person needs a SERVICE animal, one that actually performs a service for them.
Doctors are much less likely to sign a form affirming that a person needs a service animal when they really don't.
slvrblt wrote:RL757PVD wrote:The airlines did this to themselves.... they want $250 RT or $375 for a 3 leg itinerary for my 9 pound dog to go under the seat in front of me. 50% of the time the seatmate had no idea there was even a dog there. If the fee was commensurate with the space and cost (i.e $25 each way), people wouldn't have abused the system.
I think the idea was to dissuade people from flying with pets, not so much the revenue stream. Pets in cabin cause other issues with soiling, constant barking or whining. I once sat near a lady and her yorkie that yapped for three straight hours, while she thought that was so cute. Then there's reaccommodation required for those with pet allergies, or pet phobias (from those that had previous bad experiences) there was always an issue it seemed. Then some customers try and cram a 40 pound dog into a small carryon and think its ok. Then the arguments start. The poor dog looks like a cartoon character, unable to move, fur and legs sticking out everywhere at un-natural angles. But hey, that's ok for some owners.
The cabin pets are more trouble than it's worth; ship them as cargo or not at all. Preferably, not at all; some pets perish due to the sheer terror, poor things , they don't understand what's happening to them, all their sensitive ears hear are roaring sounds of APU's, engines, belt-loaders, cargo loaders, etc right next to them as they sit in their kennels. Then there's the roar of takeoff, and on and on. I would NEVER ship my pet like that, I love them too much to do that to them. I'll drive them; even if cross-country.