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SFOThinker
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Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:58 pm

Landing between 2 cars at night on an urban freeway. What skill! What nerves!
https://nypost.com/2020/12/03/pilot-pul ... n-highway/
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wingman
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:26 pm

Why didn't he land in the emergency airplane runway in the middle?
 
AllNippon767
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:40 pm

wingman wrote:
Why didn't he land in the emergency airplane runway in the middle?


I take it you missed the giant canyon in the middle of it?
 
anshabhi
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:04 pm

Woah crazy !! Could it have been a little more coordinated with the police's help, if that a/c had comms with ATC?
 
2175301
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:00 pm

wingman wrote:
Why didn't he land in the emergency airplane runway in the middle?


The "apparent" vacant middle lane is a "paid" express lane that had cars going different directions at different times of the day (and I have avoided using them when in the Twin Cities because I don't think the fee is reasonable). I see 2 possible reasons not to use it:

1) They may have seen that the few cars using it were oncoming to them - and you do not want to land into oncoming traffic.

2) It is significantly narrower than the main highway with 3 lanes and a shoulder. Having a wide place to land it an advantage.

Have a great day,
 
JBoy
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:08 pm

This is a construction zone. The center here is not open to any traffic. There was not coordination with the police as it was an emergency landing. The pilot stated it was a full engine failure. Glad all were safe!
 
Jerseyguy
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:45 pm

If this was in NJ or NY, the reaction would have been "can you believe that plane cut me off" LOL. Glas everyone is safe
 
S0Y
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:17 am

Wow - I have driven on this very road quite a bit in the recent past and it was a good call by the pilot to avoid the central section
Great skill and probably a good chunk of luck to get down without any major issues
 
andz
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:57 am

wingman wrote:
Why didn't he land in the emergency airplane runway in the middle?

Apart from the issues already mentioned above the barriers look too high for wing to ground clearance and there are light poles mounted on the left barrier so it would surely have resulted in something more serious.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
Max Q
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:53 pm

2175301 wrote:
wingman wrote:
Why didn't he land in the emergency airplane runway in the middle?


The "apparent" vacant middle lane is a "paid" express lane that had cars going different directions at different times of the day (and I have avoided using them when in the Twin Cities because I don't think the fee is reasonable). I see 2 possible reasons not to use it:

1) They may have seen that the few cars using it were oncoming to them - and you do not want to land into oncoming traffic.

2) It is significantly narrower than the main highway with 3 lanes and a shoulder. Having a wide place to land it an advantage.

Have a great day,




Besides he would have to pay a toll
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
Tailwinds
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:14 pm

My CPL examiner nearly failed me for proposing a much better road as a suitable off-airport landing site. Highways are awful. you have light poles, overpasses, signs, and other things to smack you at the last second. There are high side barriers to impact low-winged planes. Then you have other people, whom you put at risk. A scared driver is as likely to cause an accident with you as to maneuver to avoid one. How can you justify saving your life if you cause an accident which takes out a family? Hit one light pole on the way in and you can go cartwheeling through three cars you would otherwise have avoided.
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:29 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Woah crazy !! Could it have been a little more coordinated with the police's help, if that a/c had comms with ATC?

I find "calling the police" no where on my engine failure checklist.
You have literally minutes to decide where to put it down.
It's coming down, somewhere, and fast.
PNW-based private pilot and engineer. #fatpnw
 
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Exrampieyyz
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:56 am

Great job by the pilot!

Brought back a memory of one of my favorite videos

https://youtube.com/watch?v=4UvNbXyINN8
P51 P38 TBM B17 T34P ST75 C150/72/85 C402/21 AA1 B06 S232/33 AC80 BE35 DC3/4M/8/9/10 DHC4/6/7/8 CRJ2/9 CONI L188 L101 B717/27/37/47/57/67/77/87 A319/20/21/30/40/80 E175/90 BA46 BA11 CLVT A748 B190 JS31 SW4 SF34 F28 VISC VC9
my.flightradar24.com/boeinga1
 
Elementalism
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:24 am

Assuming he just took off from Anoka County and had engine problems?
 
Karlsands
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:25 am

Tailwinds wrote:
My CPL examiner nearly failed me for proposing a much better road as a suitable off-airport landing site. Highways are awful. you have light poles, overpasses, signs, and other things to smack you at the last second. There are high side barriers to impact low-winged planes. Then you have other people, whom you put at risk. A scared driver is as likely to cause an accident with you as to maneuver to avoid one. How can you justify saving your life if you cause an accident which takes out a family? Hit one light pole on the way in and you can go cartwheeling through three cars you would otherwise have avoided.

Ah so you’re just supposed to kamikaze it anywhere besides the freeway ? If you’re in a dense area . None less at night where fields etc are pitch black and the terrain is unknown a lighted roadway is worth the risk . If you haven’t been in those shoes you can’t say you’d do anything different in that instantaneous decision.
 
cskok8
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:10 am

I wonder whether he got a speeding ticket?
 
bigb
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:04 pm

Tailwinds wrote:
My CPL examiner nearly failed me for proposing a much better road as a suitable off-airport landing site. Highways are awful. you have light poles, overpasses, signs, and other things to smack you at the last second. There are high side barriers to impact low-winged planes. Then you have other people, whom you put at risk. A scared driver is as likely to cause an accident with you as to maneuver to avoid one. How can you justify saving your life if you cause an accident which takes out a family? Hit one light pole on the way in and you can go cartwheeling through three cars you would otherwise have avoided.


Hmmm, I take a high/way road over buildings and trees.......
 
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PM
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:23 pm

Am I the only one who thinks this was highly reprehensible? At the very least, he put his own safety ahead of the many people travelling in cars. Will he be charged with endangering the lives of others, because that is what he did?

And, no, I can't say what else he should have done but he decided to put others at risk to save his own neck.

It seems to have ended without anyone being hurt. It might have gone very, very differently.

If he and a dozen people in cars had been killed or injured, would he still be a hero?
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:17 pm

We don’t evaluate individual cases on what might have happened, but what did happen in that instance. Are the odds against this outcome as a procedural way of handling engine failure—probably. Would an open field next to the highway, if one existed, be better, perhaps. This pilot made judgments based on the view from the cockpit, hurt no one, job done.
 
Happytycho
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:33 pm

Without knowing the full circumstances it's hard to accurately say what all the alternatives were.

However, this is a developed area, and the closest "open field" is 2-3 miles north. If he couldn't make it there, then the only choices would be homes/businesses, the freeway, or into a lake.
 
TomJoel
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:43 pm

Nobody was hurt and that's what matters most here. However, this was a poor choice by the pilot and I suspect the FAA will probably suspend his license for 90 days or more. Landing on freeways or roads is generally ill advised. A lot of lives were placed in danger here..
 
CRJ200flyer
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:09 pm

TomJoel wrote:
Nobody was hurt and that's what matters most here. However, this was a poor choice by the pilot and I suspect the FAA will probably suspend his license for 90 days or more. Landing on freeways or roads is generally ill advised. A lot of lives were placed in danger here..


Seriously you all, these comments need to stop. You have NO IDEA what happened. STOP making wild accusations and claiming a license will be suspended. A poor choice by the pilot to land his now dead engine airplane in the only flat, suitable place he saw fit, at night time no less?
——————
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/small-plane-crashes-suv-minnesota-interstate-35/

“I got out and walked forward maybe five feet or so and I kept yelling, 'Are you guys OK? Does anybody need help?' And then the airplane door opened, and the woman and man came out and I literally was just flooded with relief. Like just so glad that they got out of that and was walking away."

Gifford and his passenger got out of the plane and into her car to stay warm.

"He said, 'Yeah, we got up in the air and my engines just failed, my engine completely failed on me, and I had to go down wherever it was safest to go down,'" she recalled.
——————
 
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smithbs
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:30 pm

This is a good video on the topic of highway landings:

https://youtu.be/99DomTe9JY4

I like the argument of landing with traffic instead of against: the closure rate is much less.
 
cschleic
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:19 pm

smithbs wrote:
This is a good video on the topic of highway landings:

https://youtu.be/99DomTe9JY4

I like the argument of landing with traffic instead of against: the closure rate is much less.


Thanks for posting. While there is some humor sprinkled in, this series of videos is well informed and based on a lot of experience.

As a pilot, a failed engine is one of those things you regularly think about when looking down at the surface...."where would I land if necessary?" At night you can't tell if a dark area is an empty field or full of trees or buildings with no lights or surrounded by power lines or any of these obscured by fog. It's easy to play armchair quarterback but unless you're in that situation with whatever variables are present at the time...difficult to second guess anyone.
 
SoCalPilot
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:38 pm

PM wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks this was highly reprehensible? At the very least, he put his own safety ahead of the many people travelling in cars. Will he be charged with endangering the lives of others, because that is what he did?

And, no, I can't say what else he should have done but he decided to put others at risk to save his own neck.

It seems to have ended without anyone being hurt. It might have gone very, very differently.

If he and a dozen people in cars had been killed or injured, would he still be a hero?

If you can't say what the better option was nor what you would have done while in the comfort of your own home sitting behind your computer screen, then he made the right decision. If you're going to make a comment like that, at least say what he should have done better.

It was night time, the highway was most likely the only lit and clear area around, it wouldn't make sense to try and land it elsewhere. Was he suppose to steer his plane towards a swatch of darkness and hope for the best? Or maybe towards some buildings? Give me a break. If this was "putting people at risk" then any other option at night would have also.

I'm curious, when you went through pilot training, what were taught to do?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:24 am

Everyone walked away so it's a good landing, plane is toast so not a great landing.

As for landing there and not elsewhere, well at night this was something he could actually see.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
sailsail
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:03 am

PM wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks this was highly reprehensible? At the very least, he put his own safety ahead of the many people travelling in cars. Will he be charged with endangering the lives of others, because that is what he did?

And, no, I can't say what else he should have done but he decided to put others at risk to save his own neck.

It seems to have ended without anyone being hurt. It might have gone very, very differently.

If he and a dozen people in cars had been killed or injured, would he still be a hero?


I know (used too... it’s been about eight years) the pilot. I will not mention his name as he is well known and probably one of the best pilots I have known. The guy is not going to put anyone’s life in danger. He is one of the 1% who could have pulled this off. I would have been a smoking hole in the ground or a house/freeway. The video does make it seem intense.

Edit: The guys name is already out there....
Last edited by sailsail on Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
sailsail
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:04 am

CRJ200flyer wrote:
TomJoel wrote:
Nobody was hurt and that's what matters most here. However, this was a poor choice by the pilot and I suspect the FAA will probably suspend his license for 90 days or more. Landing on freeways or roads is generally ill advised. A lot of lives were placed in danger here..


Seriously you all, these comments need to stop. You have NO IDEA what happened. STOP making wild accusations and claiming a license will be suspended. A poor choice by the pilot to land his now dead engine airplane in the only flat, suitable place he saw fit, at night time no less?
——————
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/small-plane-crashes-suv-minnesota-interstate-35/

“I got out and walked forward maybe five feet or so and I kept yelling, 'Are you guys OK? Does anybody need help?' And then the airplane door opened, and the woman and man came out and I literally was just flooded with relief. Like just so glad that they got out of that and was walking away."

Gifford and his passenger got out of the plane and into her car to stay warm.

"He said, 'Yeah, we got up in the air and my engines just failed, my engine completely failed on me, and I had to go down wherever it was safest to go down,'" she recalled.
——————


I would much rather be in a car than a wood winged airplane in this situation.

Edit I think there is a company near MSP that rebuilds these planes (I think they have the tc?) I don’t know if it’s related or not.
 
f4u
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:35 am

Seems to be something in the air (no pun intended)

https://www.ksl.com/article/50061792/ne ... -or-damage
 
Jetty
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:06 am

f4u wrote:
Seems to be something in the air (no pun intended)

https://www.ksl.com/article/50061792/ne ... -or-damage

A rookie no less, seems like more than 1% is being able to pull it off. :D
 
FlyingViking
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:09 am

TomJoel wrote:
Nobody was hurt and that's what matters most here. However, this was a poor choice by the pilot and I suspect the FAA will probably suspend his license for 90 days or more. Landing on freeways or roads is generally ill advised. A lot of lives were placed in danger here..



I would rather land on an pretty empty piece of highway than in a residential neighborhood. I think the pilot did everything to save life's with the deck of cards he was dealt: Low altitude at night over a city. I believe suspension would be for reckless behavior, i.e. running out of fuel or purposely bad mx maybe.
 
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PM
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:21 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
PM wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks this was highly reprehensible? At the very least, he put his own safety ahead of the many people travelling in cars. Will he be charged with endangering the lives of others, because that is what he did?

And, no, I can't say what else he should have done but he decided to put others at risk to save his own neck.

It seems to have ended without anyone being hurt. It might have gone very, very differently.

If he and a dozen people in cars had been killed or injured, would he still be a hero?

If you can't say what the better option was nor what you would have done while in the comfort of your own home sitting behind your computer screen, then he made the right decision. If you're going to make a comment like that, at least say what he should have done better.

It was night time, the highway was most likely the only lit and clear area around, it wouldn't make sense to try and land it elsewhere. Was he suppose to steer his plane towards a swatch of darkness and hope for the best? Or maybe towards some buildings? Give me a break. If this was "putting people at risk" then any other option at night would have also.

I'm curious, when you went through pilot training, what were taught to do?


No, I'm not a pilot.

But I do drive. And if a plane landed on top of my car and killed my wife, I doubt if I'd be saying, "Well, what else could he do ...?"
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:36 am

PM wrote:
But I do drive. And if a plane landed on top of my car and killed my wife, I doubt if I'd be saying, "Well, what else could he do ...?"

See you in court.
PNW-based private pilot and engineer. #fatpnw
 
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seat55a
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:43 am

PM wrote:

No, I'm not a pilot.

But I do drive. And if a plane landed on top of my car and killed my wife, I doubt if I'd be saying, "Well, what else could he do ...?"

Now we're in ethical dilemma territory (not technical skill territory). Not "what else could he do" but "what else should he do"

Let's accept that the pilot's best shot at saving himself (and passengers) increases the risk for others. Does he have to disadvantage his group? Why?

There's a long discussion in philosophical ethics that considers this stuff and it can be tiresome. But it has real relevance and even more when we try to program "self driving" cars and planes. These conflicts do come up in the real world and they don't have easy answers.
 
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PM
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:59 am

seat55a wrote:
PM wrote:

No, I'm not a pilot.

But I do drive. And if a plane landed on top of my car and killed my wife, I doubt if I'd be saying, "Well, what else could he do ...?"

Now we're in ethical dilemma territory (not technical skill territory). Not "what else could he do" but "what else should he do"

Let's accept that the pilot's best shot at saving himself (and passengers) increases the risk for others. Does he have to disadvantage his group? Why?

There's a long discussion in philosophical ethics that considers this stuff and it can be tiresome. But it has real relevance and even more when we try to program "self driving" cars and planes. These conflicts do come up in the real world and they don't have easy answers.

I agree. That's why I'm trying to offer a corrective to all the congratulatory comments here about the pilot.

He did it. Good for him. No one got hurt. Good. But he had a choice. He didn't give the people on the road a choice.

What if ten people had been killed? Twenty? Would we still be saying, "Tough break but the pilot had to give it a shot."? Would the relatives of those who died?

This is a good one I always enjoy giving my students.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem
 
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seat55a
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:46 am

The trolley problem exactly. Conflicting duties. Pilot's duty to self and passengers conflicts with duty to bystanders.

But what's your view - are you seriously saying that everyone with agency has a duty to avoid all harm to bystanders, to the point of ultimate self sacrifice? I couldn't agree with that.

What if your wife is the passenger in the plane, happy to have her die in the name of "the pilot had agency but the poor saps below didn't"? (Reversibility)

Anyway you're setting up a strawman, because part of the pilot's agency is that they can at least attempt to minimize harm to the hapless, consistent with attempting to survive themselves. We usually give moral credit to those who make an effort to balance their duties to self and others. And as far as we know, this pilot did try to do that and (by luck or skill) he succeeded.
 
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seat55a
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:52 am

Somewhat OT, but here's one to give your students for extra credit: the "new trolley problem" https://spot.colorado.edu/~huemer/trolley.htm
 
seb76
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:21 am

PM wrote:
seat55a wrote:
PM wrote:

No, I'm not a pilot.

But I do drive. And if a plane landed on top of my car and killed my wife, I doubt if I'd be saying, "Well, what else could he do ...?"

Now we're in ethical dilemma territory (not technical skill territory). Not "what else could he do" but "what else should he do"

Let's accept that the pilot's best shot at saving himself (and passengers) increases the risk for others. Does he have to disadvantage his group? Why?

There's a long discussion in philosophical ethics that considers this stuff and it can be tiresome. But it has real relevance and even more when we try to program "self driving" cars and planes. These conflicts do come up in the real world and they don't have easy answers.

I agree. That's why I'm trying to offer a corrective to all the congratulatory comments here about the pilot.

He did it. Good for him. No one got hurt. Good. But he had a choice. He didn't give the people on the road a choice.

What if ten people had been killed? Twenty? Would we still be saying, "Tough break but the pilot had to give it a shot."? Would the relatives of those who died?

This is a good one I always enjoy giving my students.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem


Fully agree with this view.

I did a bit of Night VFR myself and actually never used this skill again after the initial training. When you find yourself in a SEP aircraft at night and think about where to go in case of engine failure, you look around... you look once more... then you just reassure yourself by looking at the oil temp, oil pressure, fuel pressure and remaining fuel QTY gauges.
Anything that is dark outside could be anything ranging from the roof of a large warehouse, a forest, to rocks or if you are very lucky, a field ??? Who knows ?
Making a proper dead stick landing on a clear sunny day is already difficult enough for many pilots. The chances of doing this properly at night are just so low.

So, yes, the pilot did a good job considering the circumstances. He maybe was smart enough to consider staying close from lit highways while preparing his navigation, but I doesn't make any sense to be in a single engine piston plane at night. It's not the right equipment for this mission.
 
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PM
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:48 am

seat55a wrote:
The trolley problem exactly. Conflicting duties. Pilot's duty to self and passengers conflicts with duty to bystanders.

But what's your view - are you seriously saying that everyone with agency has a duty to avoid all harm to bystanders, to the point of ultimate self sacrifice? I couldn't agree with that.

What if your wife is the passenger in the plane, happy to have her die in the name of "the pilot had agency but the poor saps below didn't"? (Reversibility)

Anyway you're setting up a strawman, because part of the pilot's agency is that they can at least attempt to minimize harm to the hapless, consistent with attempting to survive themselves. We usually give moral credit to those who make an effort to balance their duties to self and others. And as far as we know, this pilot did try to do that and (by luck or skill) he succeeded.

No. There's no easy answer. But I wanted to offer an alternative to the posts here basically saying what a great guy the pilot was. It could have ended up very differently.
 
Redd
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:54 am

Tailwinds wrote:
My CPL examiner nearly failed me for proposing a much better road as a suitable off-airport landing site. Highways are awful. you have light poles, overpasses, signs, and other things to smack you at the last second. There are high side barriers to impact low-winged planes. Then you have other people, whom you put at risk. A scared driver is as likely to cause an accident with you as to maneuver to avoid one. How can you justify saving your life if you cause an accident which takes out a family? Hit one light pole on the way in and you can go cartwheeling through three cars you would otherwise have avoided.


My PPL instructor told me to land on top of a car if that's what I have to do, and not to avoid traffic when I'm that low. Cars are built stronger than light aircraft like a 172. Also, If it's nighttime and I have a black hole of a field or a lit up highway, I'm choosing the highway.

Last but not least, your first responsibility is towards you and your passengers. If you have a chance in hell of bringing your passengers and yourself in alive, you don't think about collateral damage.

That's what I was taught anyway.
 
ACDC8
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:04 am

The armchair experts are strong in this thread.

Unless you were in that cockpit, you have no clue what the heck you're talking about :sarcastic:
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
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b787900
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Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:24 am

ACDC8 wrote:
The armchair experts are strong in this thread.

Unless you were in that cockpit, you have no clue what the heck you're talking about :sarcastic:


Precisely! It is easy for people to judge and speculate while sitting in the safety and comfort of their homes. It is good to know everything ended well in the end.
Flew in: 717, 732-7M9, 744, 74H, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 772, 77L, 77W, 788, 789, 781, 223, 313, 318, 319, 32D, 320, 32A, 32N, 321, 32B, 32Q, 332, 333, 343, 346, 359, 351, 388, M11, M88, ER3, ER4, E70, E75, E90, E95, CR2, CR7, CR9, F50, F70, AN-24, TU5
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2154
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:42 pm

PM wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
PM wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks this was highly reprehensible? At the very least, he put his own safety ahead of the many people travelling in cars. Will he be charged with endangering the lives of others, because that is what he did?

And, no, I can't say what else he should have done but he decided to put others at risk to save his own neck.

It seems to have ended without anyone being hurt. It might have gone very, very differently.

If he and a dozen people in cars had been killed or injured, would he still be a hero?

If you can't say what the better option was nor what you would have done while in the comfort of your own home sitting behind your computer screen, then he made the right decision. If you're going to make a comment like that, at least say what he should have done better.

It was night time, the highway was most likely the only lit and clear area around, it wouldn't make sense to try and land it elsewhere. Was he suppose to steer his plane towards a swatch of darkness and hope for the best? Or maybe towards some buildings? Give me a break. If this was "putting people at risk" then any other option at night would have also.

I'm curious, when you went through pilot training, what were taught to do?


No, I'm not a pilot.

But I do drive. And if a plane landed on top of my car and killed my wife, I doubt if I'd be saying, "Well, what else could he do ...?"

"Using highways as emergency runways in case of engine failure" is taught during flying lessons. Why? Simply because highways have long runs of straight roads, usually wide enough to accommodate the wingspan of an aircraft; and the aircraft speed on landing is around the speed limit of highways. So, as you slowly glide down towards Earth, the cars behind the disabled plane will (logically?) slow down, leaving space for the plane to land while the cars ahead of it will continue their merry way.
 
2175301
Posts: 2052
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:17 pm

PM wrote:

He did it. Good for him. No one got hurt. Good. But he had a choice. He didn't give the people on the road a choice.

What if ten people had been killed? Twenty? Would we still be saying, "Tough break but the pilot had to give it a shot."? Would the relatives of those who died?

This is a good one I always enjoy giving my students.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem


This is not just a 'strawman" argument - but a STRAWMAN argument.

Is there any evidence out there that an aircraft landing on a road in traffic has killed more than a few people other than the pilot? What if 10 or 20 is likely totally preposterous.

So give to your students that while it is possible to kill one to a few; that its extremely unlikely to kill more than that. Also, that should they crash into a house or business that they also can kill one to a few as well.

Have a great day,
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2266
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:56 pm

PM wrote:
I agree. That's why I'm trying to offer a corrective to all the congratulatory comments here about the pilot.

He did it. Good for him. No one got hurt. Good. But he had a choice. He didn't give the people on the road a choice.

What if ten people had been killed? Twenty? Would we still be saying, "Tough break but the pilot had to give it a shot."? Would the relatives of those who died?

This is a good one I always enjoy giving my students.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem


The Trolley Problem (while interesting) isn't at all relevant here. This wasn't a me vs. them scenario. Traffic was light and the pilot did exactly was expected: landing ahead of the closet motorists (so he could be seen), who braked, just like they do when there's a car in front of them slowing down. No doubt they were surprised, but human reflex is to hit the brakes before running into something (car, plane or something on the road).

Planes land on highways occasionally (maybe a few times a year). Almost every time it's without serious incident. Which isn't surprising considering it's not in a pilot's interest to have an accident with a car.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 2154
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:21 am

RDUDDJI wrote:
PM wrote:
I agree. That's why I'm trying to offer a corrective to all the congratulatory comments here about the pilot.

He did it. Good for him. No one got hurt. Good. But he had a choice. He didn't give the people on the road a choice.

What if ten people had been killed? Twenty? Would we still be saying, "Tough break but the pilot had to give it a shot."? Would the relatives of those who died?

This is a good one I always enjoy giving my students.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem


The Trolley Problem (while interesting) isn't at all relevant here. This wasn't a me vs. them scenario. Traffic was light and the pilot did exactly was expected: landing ahead of the closet motorists (so he could be seen), who braked, just like they do when there's a car in front of them slowing down. No doubt they were surprised, but human reflex is to hit the brakes before running into something (car, plane or something on the road).

Planes land on highways occasionally (maybe a few times a year). Almost every time it's without serious incident. Which isn't surprising considering it's not in a pilot's interest to have an accident with a car.

And it's not surprising it's happening as it is taught in flying schools.
And then, you have the old myth that the Interstate Highways in the US had to have a certain straight length of roadway every so often so a disabled airplane can land on it.
 
TomJoel
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:02 pm

Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:46 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
PM wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
If you can't say what the better option was nor what you would have done while in the comfort of your own home sitting behind your computer screen, then he made the right decision. If you're going to make a comment like that, at least say what he should have done better.

It was night time, the highway was most likely the only lit and clear area around, it wouldn't make sense to try and land it elsewhere. Was he suppose to steer his plane towards a swatch of darkness and hope for the best? Or maybe towards some buildings? Give me a break. If this was "putting people at risk" then any other option at night would have also.

I'm curious, when you went through pilot training, what were taught to do?


No, I'm not a pilot.

But I do drive. And if a plane landed on top of my car and killed my wife, I doubt if I'd be saying, "Well, what else could he do ...?"

"Using highways as emergency runways in case of engine failure" is taught during flying lessons. Why? Simply because highways have long runs of straight roads, usually wide enough to accommodate the wingspan of an aircraft; and the aircraft speed on landing is around the speed limit of highways. So, as you slowly glide down towards Earth, the cars behind the disabled plane will (logically?) slow down, leaving space for the plane to land while the cars ahead of it will continue their merry way.


Using a highway should be considered the last option in almost every situation. An open area/field or even water is a better choice than a busy highway. Damaging the aircraft or harming yourself (as the pilot) is secondary when you consider how many lives could be lost if a highway landing goes wrong. No doubt, this pilot did what he had to do to get the airplane down safely and luckily no injuries. If the FAA can determine a safer alternative, you bet a suspension and or fine is incoming not to mention any legal litigation from anyone involved on the highway. Better to risk your safety than the safety of others around you.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4488
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:31 pm

TomJoel wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
PM wrote:

No, I'm not a pilot.

But I do drive. And if a plane landed on top of my car and killed my wife, I doubt if I'd be saying, "Well, what else could he do ...?"

"Using highways as emergency runways in case of engine failure" is taught during flying lessons. Why? Simply because highways have long runs of straight roads, usually wide enough to accommodate the wingspan of an aircraft; and the aircraft speed on landing is around the speed limit of highways. So, as you slowly glide down towards Earth, the cars behind the disabled plane will (logically?) slow down, leaving space for the plane to land while the cars ahead of it will continue their merry way.


Using a highway should be considered the last option in almost every situation. An open area/field or even water is a better choice than a busy highway. Damaging the aircraft or harming yourself (as the pilot) is secondary when you consider how many lives could be lost if a highway landing goes wrong. No doubt, this pilot did what he had to do to get the airplane down safely and luckily no injuries. If the FAA can determine a safer alternative, you bet a suspension and or fine is incoming not to mention any legal litigation from anyone involved on the highway. Better to risk your safety than the safety of others around you.


I am sure if there was a better alternative he would've taken it.

Can you tell me what your best choice would be looking out of this window with a dead engine?

Image

Are those dark patches mountains? Dense forest? A quarry? Maybe a shallow rocky lake? Could be construction sites? Could be a big ravine?
 
EWRandMDW
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:28 am

Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:06 pm

About 2 1/2 years ago a pilot set his plane down on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago at the beginning of rush hour. There are many bridges spanning the highway and he either flew under a bridge or rolled out under one. MDW tower instructed him to land on the highway as he couldn't make the airport due to engine trouble and no one wanted the possibility of the plane going down in a residential area.

Kudos to MN pilot as well as the one from 2018!

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1400063&hilit=lake+shore+drive
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 7398
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Pilot pulls off amazing emergency landing on freeway

Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:09 pm

TomJoel wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
PM wrote:

No, I'm not a pilot.

But I do drive. And if a plane landed on top of my car and killed my wife, I doubt if I'd be saying, "Well, what else could he do ...?"

"Using highways as emergency runways in case of engine failure" is taught during flying lessons. Why? Simply because highways have long runs of straight roads, usually wide enough to accommodate the wingspan of an aircraft; and the aircraft speed on landing is around the speed limit of highways. So, as you slowly glide down towards Earth, the cars behind the disabled plane will (logically?) slow down, leaving space for the plane to land while the cars ahead of it will continue their merry way.


Using a highway should be considered the last option in almost every situation. An open area/field or even water is a better choice than a busy highway. Damaging the aircraft or harming yourself (as the pilot) is secondary when you consider how many lives could be lost if a highway landing goes wrong. No doubt, this pilot did what he had to do to get the airplane down safely and luckily no injuries. If the FAA can determine a safer alternative, you bet a suspension and or fine is incoming not to mention any legal litigation from anyone involved on the highway. Better to risk your safety than the safety of others around you.


Just stop unless you’re an FAA ASI with actual ASEL night experience. There’s no way, none that the FAA will take enforcement action on a emergency landing, barring the pilot sabotaged his own plane.

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