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SR380
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Did SAA ever considered Concord or B2707?

Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:47 pm

Hey guys,

Thinking about South African Airways today and I wonder why the airlines never placed an order for either the Concord or the B2707? Taking in consideration their route map during the apartheid, they could have fly supersonic above the ocean to reach all their Europeans destinations, New York, Rio De Janeiro, Perth, China, etc...

Although I do not recall any order or even MOU from them.

Their route map during the apartheid:

Image

Anyone got any info on that?

Thanks in advance!
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Did SAA ever considered Concord or B2707?

Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:10 pm

Concorde wouldn't have had the non-stop range for LHR or CDG. Not much utility, really.

https://apnews.com/article/66062239e947 ... 046fa73583
 
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SR380
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Re: Did SAA ever considered Concord or B2707?

Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:48 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Concorde wouldn't have had the non-stop range for LHR or CDG. Not much utility, really.

https://apnews.com/article/66062239e947 ... 046fa73583


But due to the ban on overlying African countries the 747s had still to do a tech stop. Isn't it?
 
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Polot
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Re: Did SAA ever considered Concord or B2707?

Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:06 pm

SR380 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Concorde wouldn't have had the non-stop range for LHR or CDG. Not much utility, really.

https://apnews.com/article/66062239e947 ... 046fa73583


But due to the ban on overlying African countries the 747s had still to do a tech stop. Isn't it?

The 747SPs, 743s, and I think some of their later build -200Bs (which, granted, all came after the Concorde) could do LHR/CDG nonstop. A majority of their European network had tech stops though, usually in SID.
 
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cv990Coronado
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Re: Did SAA ever considered Concord or B2707?

Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:48 am

I flew Concorde CPTROBLHR in April 90 on a leg of an RTW charter. The trouble is as mentioned it didn't have the range for non-stop and I doubt it could do JNBROB because of the altitude in Johannesburg. Also politically it couldn't overfly African countries, but that would have been sorted around 1994. If the altitude issue with JNB could have been resolved, then I think there might have been a market JNB(ROB) LON. Cape Town doesn't have yield for an all first-class product.
SSC-707B727 737-741234SP757/762/3/772/WA300/10/319/2/1-342/3/6-880-DAM-VC10 TRD 111 Ju52-DC8/9/10/11-YS11-748-VCV DH4B L
 
evanb
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Re: Did SAA ever considered Concord or B2707?

Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:58 am

Concorde would have needed two, maybe three stops (if flying around), to make something like JNB-LHR, given range and hot-and-hight issues. That would give up most of the time savings.

Also, it's not clear that the yield advantage from any times savings would be enough to outweigh the costs. As BA and AF showed, there were a very small number of routes that had enough of a yield advantage.
 
andz
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Re: Did SAA ever considered Concord or B2707?

Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:10 pm

Concorde used to come to JNB for hot and high testing, I can recall several visits when I was in high school in the 70s and the plane roaring over the school (less than 2.5km from the north end of 03L) every half an hour.

Regarding the ban on overflying Africa, SAA had stops in Abidjan, Ilha do Sal or Lisbon. My wife and I were in Germany when the ban was lifted so we flew back from Frankfurt straight down over Africa which felt like a regional flight instead of the long way round.

Everything in the long haul fleet in those days could reach any SAA destination in Europe non stop from JNB.

SID was also a stop on the ATL route back in the day.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
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747classic
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Re: Did SAA ever considered Concord or B2707?

Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:59 pm

andz wrote:
Concorde used to come to JNB for hot and high testing, I can recall several visits when I was in high school in the 70s and the plane roaring over the school (less than 2.5km from the north end of 03L) every half an hour.

Regarding the ban on overflying Africa, SAA had stops in Abidjan, Ilha do Sal or Lisbon. My wife and I were in Germany when the ban was lifted so we flew back from Frankfurt straight down over Africa which felt like a regional flight instead of the long way round.

Everything in the long haul fleet in those days could reach any SAA destination in Europe non stop from JNB.

SID was also a stop on the ATL route back in the day.


All SAA 747-244B/M aircraft were equipped ( re-engined) with PW JT9D-7R4G2 engines to maximise the payload/range out of JNB (equal or even better than the range of the SAA 747SP's !)
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.

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