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HALFA
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:01 am

HNL-AUS has long been in the planning stages. This was the worst kept secret at HA headquarters. I think we all knew this was coming. It was never HA's intention to compete with AA our of DFW or UA out of IAH but the AUS metropolitan area is huge and I think this will be another successful route for Hawaiian. MCO on the other hand was a complete surprise, and a pleasant one at that! As one that travels back and forth from Hawaii to Florida quite often, it will be really nice to not have to make the usual connections in LAX to get to Florida. To answer some of the questions that I have seen posted above, yes, Hawaiians do indeed love to go to Disneyworld vs Disneyland. Most of my friends living in Hawaii with kids have made the trip to Orlando as the park there is bigger and better I've been told. I work the HA flights to JFK each month and there are always passengers on the flight connecting on B6 to MCO according to the manifest. Someone else noted that the aircraft will remain in MCO for 25 hours, and yes, this will allow for proper crew rest resulting in the crew not needing to layover for several days. Our aircraft will also remain in both JFK and BOS overnight when service resumes to both of those cities later this month. In a year full of bad news, this was certainly a good news day for the employees of HA!

Aloha,
HALFA
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:19 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
MCO makes sense to me. It's connecting two large markets. People in Orlando want a tropical getaway and people in Hawaii want to visit the theme park capital of the world.

AUS I think is a quality add.

Long beach and ONT they maybe think they can deter southwest . These are odd times they can't just pour capacity on the same routes. Also people might feel safer avoiding airports like lax in these times , I mean they have to use the planes somewhere good time to try these markets I guess. I'm surprised they are back in long Beach but the outside setup there is built for covid


Maybe but the majority of Floridians will head to the likes of SXM, STT, GCM. Much shorter flight for a tropical getaway.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:25 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
MCO makes sense to me. It's connecting two large markets. People in Orlando want a tropical getaway and people in Hawaii want to visit the theme park capital of the world.

AUS I think is a quality add.

Long beach and ONT they maybe think they can deter southwest . These are odd times they can't just pour capacity on the same routes. Also people might feel safer avoiding airports like lax in these times , I mean they have to use the planes somewhere good time to try these markets I guess. I'm surprised they are back in long Beach but the outside setup there is built for covid


Maybe but the majority of Floridians will head to the likes of SXM, STT, GCM. Much shorter flight for a tropical getaway.


How many people living in a tropical area need a tropical getaway? From what I've seen, most of the local traffic is ethnic on Florida-Caribbean flights.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:29 am

MAH4546 wrote:
But the reality is they have planes not flying to Asia and need to utilize them so I don't see this as part of a longer term strategy.


It’s not just a lack of Asia flying. With a number of A321neo on the property now, those are taking over a lot of the west coast flying, so there may still be A330 availability to serve markets like AUS and MCO even as more of HA’s international network resumes. And don’t forget the 787s are coming eventually too.

TTailedTiger wrote:
Maybe but the majority of Floridians will head to the likes of SXM, STT, GCM. Much shorter flight for a tropical getaway.


COVID might have people scared off from international travel. Even if the Caribbean markets either remain open to Americans or reopen as vaccination rates climb and case loads go down, some people might perceive a long domestic flight to Hawaii as a safer choice for much of 2021.
 
laser1180
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:34 am

The thoughts behind MCO was residents in a destination city don't really visit the tourist spots. Florida is the retire central of US, most retires don't care for the Caribbeans or Cancun, they would much rather hit their bucket list which is Hawaii. Prior to this, it will take them one or multiple connections to get there, now just one shot. Don't forget all the surrounding cities that's in driving distance to MCO.

If WN is chasing after HA on the west, go to places where 738 or 7M8 can't go.
 
Kent350787
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:35 am

x1234 wrote:
Too bad Australia/New Zealand/Japan & South Korea are closed right now due to COVID. Or else they can have high yielding connecting traffic from places like JFK/BOS to SYD/HND/ICN. I do know AUS (Dell + High-Tech industry) and MCO (Conventions, Disney, Universal) has paticular demand from SYD, AKL, HND, ICN.


I'm SYD based, and we've explored connections via HNL to BOS in the past. Until Covid, things worked OK for a halfway meetup, but far less well for a through itninerary. HA product also doesn't have a great standing in the local market here -not bad, just plenty of other options for US destinations, including MCO.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:45 am

Hawaii is really different from any place in the Caribbean with a different appeal, and it's in the United States. Not an insignificant thing in these times.
 
WorldFlier
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:50 am

BWIAirport wrote:
Kind of surprised HNL-AUS isn't a redeye; it departs HNL at 1000 and arrives at AUS at 2210. The plane overnights and the return flight leaves AUS at 1000, so I would think a redeye that arrives between 0700-0900 would be better fleet utilization.


Because utilization is a HUUUUGE problem right now...
 
WorldFlier
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:51 am

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Hawaii is really different from any place in the Caribbean with a different appeal, and it's in the United States. Not an insignificant thing in these times.


So is SJU, and its closer and cheaper. Also, being 2x weekly that means 5/7ths of the week people have to connect at least once anyways.
 
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flymco753
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:00 am

Completely unexpected. At least we can get a non-stop to Hawaii with confidence unlike DTW. :lol:

Jokes aside, we love beaches. Aside from a night or weekend trip to our own beaches, we do like to explore beaches from other places. I also think the MCO add has a little to do with taking some Asia traffic from DL.
Last edited by flymco753 on Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Brickell305
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:01 am

usflyer msp wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
MCO makes sense to me. It's connecting two large markets. People in Orlando want a tropical getaway and people in Hawaii want to visit the theme park capital of the world.

AUS I think is a quality add.

Long beach and ONT they maybe think they can deter southwest . These are odd times they can't just pour capacity on the same routes. Also people might feel safer avoiding airports like lax in these times , I mean they have to use the planes somewhere good time to try these markets I guess. I'm surprised they are back in long Beach but the outside setup there is built for covid


Maybe but the majority of Floridians will head to the likes of SXM, STT, GCM. Much shorter flight for a tropical getaway.


How many people living in a tropical area need a tropical getaway? From what I've seen, most of the local traffic is ethnic on Florida-Caribbean flights.

There is significant leisure travel on Florida-Caribbean flights. Florida is a top 2 source market state for many, if not most Caribbean tourism destinations.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:04 am

Brickell305 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Maybe but the majority of Floridians will head to the likes of SXM, STT, GCM. Much shorter flight for a tropical getaway.


How many people living in a tropical area need a tropical getaway? From what I've seen, most of the local traffic is ethnic on Florida-Caribbean flights.

There is significant leisure travel on Florida-Caribbean flights. Florida is a top 2 source market state for many, if not most Caribbean tourism destinations.


Ethnic traffic is leisure traffic, they are just not going to the resorts.
 
lostsound
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:13 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
lostsound wrote:
If Canadians can fill planes from YYT to MCO, an island with almost half the population of Oahu, surely HA have the potential to make 2 x week work from HNL. Plus they have Asian connection capabilities.


I like YYT - enough to keep going back... but people from YYT aren't leaving Hawaii behind when they go to MCO.


Having lived near YYT I can say they truly are not lol. But regardless of how internationally desired the city you live in is, locals always yearn for something else. So many people from NYC haven’t done any of the touristy things because when you’re from there it doesn’t so special. Plus there is definitely nothing like Disney World in Hawaii.
 
Brickell305
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:15 am

usflyer msp wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

How many people living in a tropical area need a tropical getaway? From what I've seen, most of the local traffic is ethnic on Florida-Caribbean flights.

There is significant leisure travel on Florida-Caribbean flights. Florida is a top 2 source market state for many, if not most Caribbean tourism destinations.


Ethnic traffic is leisure traffic, they are just not going to the resorts.

Routes like FLL-MBJ/AUA/PUJ/SXM/GCM/PLS, MCO-MBJ/PUJ, MIA-SKB/ANU/PLS/MBJ/AUA, PBI/MHH, etc. don’t survive on ethnic travel. The leisure market ex Florida is huge largely due to proximity.

Guest origin of hotel visitors in the USVI over the years just as one data point:

http://usviber.org/hotel-guests-origins/

Florida is top 2 after NY. This is a similar tale whether you look at arrivals or hotel stays in islands where these statistics are available.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:49 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Wow, that’s amazing. I’m excited to see how AUS performs. They’ve been pushing for HNL service with incentives.


No, it’ll be amazing only if HA actually proceeds with service and it sticks around more than a season.

AUS-HNL and MCO-HNL in 2021 are only slightly less absurd than AA SEA-BLR.

In this COVID era of such minimal advanced booking demand curve, announcing routes like this is playing with house money.

Wake me up if either of these flights actually start as scheduled.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:54 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
Is there an actual market for Honolulu-Orlando nonstop? This one is really strange.


Agreed 100%. If they wanted to shoot for something on the east coast EWR/IAD would have made more sense. Both have UA feed too.


EWR and IAD already have a nonstop to Hawaii (whenever they resume anyway). That's probably all the market can bear. HNL-MCO is odd.
 
catiii
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:41 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
Is there an actual market for Honolulu-Orlando nonstop? This one is really strange.


Agreed 100%. If they wanted to shoot for something on the east coast EWR/IAD would have made more sense. Both have UA feed too.


Why would UA feed HA when they have no codeshare arrangement? And when they have their own metal nonstops to Hawaii?
 
catiii
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:47 am

laser1180 wrote:
The thoughts behind MCO was residents in a destination city don't really visit the tourist spots. Florida is the retire central of US, most retires don't care for the Caribbeans or Cancun, they would much rather hit their bucket list which is Hawaii. Prior to this, it will take them one or multiple connections to get there, now just one shot. Don't forget all the surrounding cities that's in driving distance to MCO.

If WN is chasing after HA on the west, go to places where 738 or 7M8 can't go.


Multiple connections? Most everywhere in Hawaii is one connection from MCO via LAX, SFO, ATL, EWR, JFK, BOS, IAD, DEN, IAH, DFW...
 
catiii
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:50 am

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Hawaii is really different from any place in the Caribbean with a different appeal, and it's in the United States. Not an insignificant thing in these times.


Except the appeal of Hawaii being part of the United States is eliminated with the 14 day quarantine or pre travel test requirement.
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:52 am

usflyer msp wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
Kind of surprised HNL-AUS isn't a redeye; it departs HNL at 1000 and arrives at AUS at 2210. The plane overnights and the return flight leaves AUS at 1000, so I would think a redeye that arrives between 0700-0900 would be better fleet utilization.


This schedule only requires one crew, a red-eye return would require two.

Interesting, never thought about it that way. That would explain why the HNL-MCO-HNL sees the aircraft on the ground for 25 hours rather than returning the next day.
 
splitterz
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:56 am

Max Q wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Just remember, Hawaiians travel to. They love Orlando. That's the market here, not Orlando to Hawaii.



Where do Hawaiians travel to ?


Lol vegas, the 9th island
 
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klm617
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:57 am

So what are the top markets as far as O/D that don't have nonstop flights to Honolulu.
 
jrfspa320
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:02 am

x1234 wrote:
Too bad Australia/New Zealand/Japan & South Korea are closed right now due to COVID. Or else they can have high yielding connecting traffic from places like JFK/BOS to SYD/HND/ICN. I do know AUS (Dell + High-Tech industry) and MCO (Conventions, Disney, Universal) has paticular demand from SYD, AKL, HND, ICN.


Not sure if this is a joke comment? There is no high yield demand at the moment....and they certainly wouldn't be travelling HA via HNL.....Nobody in AU / NZ has any desire to travel to the USA until they have covid under control
 
airzona11
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:15 am

Also puts first-mover against WN. Competition for traffic is going to be intense. New markets for all airlines.
 
Planeboy17
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:19 am

jfk777 wrote:

Don't dosiss Central Florida to Hawaii, remember Tampa and Orlando are two huge metro areas with close to 10 million people.


Sorry but I have to correct you on this. The TPA MSA for 2019 is 3.2 million and MCO MSA is 2.6.
5.8 million. Not bad but not 10 million.
These numbers are estimates since the 2020 numbers won’t be released until well into next year or longer.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:26 am

WorldFlier wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Hawaii is really different from any place in the Caribbean with a different appeal, and it's in the United States. Not an insignificant thing in these times.


So is SJU, and its closer and cheaper. Also, being 2x weekly that means 5/7ths of the week people have to connect at least once anyways.


For folks east of the Mississippi (maybe AUS too), Hawaii is really a bucket list destination. Hawaii has nice beaches and is unique for sure, but it’s hard to justify how much harder it is to get to than any number of nice Caribbean beaches. And remember that these flights are just to HNL; folks going to neighbor islands still have to connect and have tons of extant options for those connections on the mainland.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:33 am

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Didn't see that coming.
HNL-MCO 2x week starting March 11


Nor did I! Then again, there's lots and lots of wealthy baby boomers retired throughout Florida from places like the East Coast and Midwest. My parents, for instance, left the Chicago area 10 years ago for Southwest Florida - but they kept their Maui timeshare. They have spent time in closer locales such as the Caribbean, Costa Rica and Mexico but unfortunately in all of those places things can start to feel dicey as soon as you leave resort properties and tourist areas. Perhaps this is simply because my parents love renting a car when traveling. That way they can shop at local grocery stores (and hopefully not have to eat out 3x a day), eat at local restaurants, and explore the local culture and area as much as possible. They seem to feel this is much easier and safer to do in a place like Hawaii than, say, Cancún.

Hawaii just has that special blend of incredible food, relatively low crime and romantic mystique that keeps them coming back, even when there are numerous tropical getaways much closer to their Florida home. My parents are also the type of people that loathe having to connect. If there are other fans of Hawaii living in Florida that avoid making connections whenever possible, I could honestly see this service working.

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Didn't see that coming.
HNL-AUS 2x week starting April 21


Nor did I! Then again, this is another city with lots of transplants that may very well have grown up visiting Hawaii. Just because you left California for a job opportunity and/or bigger house in Texas doesn't mean you necessarily stop vacationing in Hawaii, right? Again, CUN isn't for everybody. This service could appeal to San Antonio travelers as well as those in Austin, while avoiding competition with the established Texas-Hawaii services at DFW (AA) and IAH (UA).

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Didn't see that coming.
HNL-ONT 5x week starting March 16


Nor did I! The Inland Empire hasn't had nonstop flights to Hawaii in years. I hope it works out this time around. ONT is such a great alternative to LAX, and it's also a good alternative to airports like BUR, PSP and SNA that lack nonstop service to Hawaii. New management at ONT probably won't hurt either!

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Didn't see that coming.
OGG-LGB daily starting March 9


Nor did I! I was surprised to see HA return to LGB, and shocked to see them make use of their second slot! However, rumor has it WN is set to announce its own LGB-OGG service...
Last edited by SurfandSnow on Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
01pewterz28
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:40 am

Lot's of traffic to Disney you will have a bunch of folks heading to WDW then head to Honolulu for Aulani (Disney DVC Resort) we are going to love this route. I did not look forward to flying MCO-LAX-HNL with a family of 7 to stay at Aulani resort. Same with folks wanting to travel to Orlando hit the parks for 1-2 days and then a Disney cruise. I do not see HA having a problem filling seats once Covid is thing of the past and this going 6-7 days a week flight.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:41 am

01pewterz28 wrote:
Lot's of traffic to Disney you will have a bunch of folks heading to WDW then head to Honolulu for Aulani (Disney DVC Resort) we are going to love this route. I did not look forward to flying MCO-LAX-HNL with a family of 7 to stay at Aulani resort. Same with folks wanting to travel to Orlando hit the parks for 1-2 days and then a Disney cruise. I do not see HA having a problem filling seats once Covid is thing of the past and this going 6-7 days a week flight.


I can assure the market of people taking vacations to Disney and Hawaii within the same year is very small.
 
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enilria
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:51 am

MavyWavyATR wrote:
Is there an actual market for Honolulu-Orlando nonstop? This one is really strange.

I agree it can’t succeed. I’d say AUS is unlikely to either. How do they crew these? They fly the crew out on other airlines? Or 96 hour turn?
 
toga998
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:59 am

enilria wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
Is there an actual market for Honolulu-Orlando nonstop? This one is really strange.

I agree it can’t succeed. I’d say AUS is unlikely to either. How do they crew these? They fly the crew out on other airlines? Or 96 hour turn?

Check the timetable. Min rest for crew, airplane is RON and heads out the next morning. One crew for two flights to keep the flight at max efficiency. Leave it to Anutters to be the most pessimistic in the crowd.
 
azjubilee
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:20 am

:roll: If anything, airliners.net is at least predictable. Same comments, from the same experts.
Last edited by azjubilee on Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
XRadar98
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:21 am

seat1a wrote:
With HNL-AUS service, will this pull passengers from the surrounding area that would otherwise use UA or AA through IAH/DFW?


I am down at SAT, and I will absolutely take the AUS non-stop. For me, a no brainer.
 
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spinotter
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:01 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
lostsound wrote:
If Canadians can fill planes from YYT to MCO, an island with almost half the population of Oahu, surely HA have the potential to make 2 x week work from HNL. Plus they have Asian connection capabilities.


I like YYT - enough to keep going back... but people from YYT aren't leaving Hawaii behind when they go to MCO.


Aren't Hawaii and Florida different enough in their own ways to compare with the different worlds of Newfoundland and Florida as tourist magnets?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:03 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
MCO makes sense to me. It's connecting two large markets. People in Orlando want a tropical getaway and people in Hawaii want to visit the theme park capital of the world.

AUS I think is a quality add.

Long beach and ONT they maybe think they can deter southwest . These are odd times they can't just pour capacity on the same routes. Also people might feel safer avoiding airports like lax in these times , I mean they have to use the planes somewhere good time to try these markets I guess. I'm surprised they are back in long Beach but the outside setup there is built for covid


Maybe but the majority of Floridians will head to the likes of SXM, STT, GCM. Much shorter flight for a tropical getaway.


enilria wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
Is there an actual market for Honolulu-Orlando nonstop? This one is really strange.

I agree it can’t succeed. I’d say AUS is unlikely to either. How do they crew these? They fly the crew out on other airlines? Or 96 hour turn?


The demand from MCO-Hawaii is actually stronger than I thought...I believe it is actually the largest "domestic" unserved route from HNL after BWI-HNL. According to DOT reports, sizably over 100 PDEW in "normal" times without stimulation, which would likely be large. I still assume they will pushback the start date on this.

Cubsrule wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Hawaii is really different from any place in the Caribbean with a different appeal, and it's in the United States. Not an insignificant thing in these times.


So is SJU, and its closer and cheaper. Also, being 2x weekly that means 5/7ths of the week people have to connect at least once anyways.


For folks east of the Mississippi (maybe AUS too), Hawaii is really a bucket list destination. Hawaii has nice beaches and is unique for sure, but it’s hard to justify how much harder it is to get to than any number of nice Caribbean beaches. And remember that these flights are just to HNL; folks going to neighbor islands still have to connect and have tons of extant options for those connections on the mainland.


Agreed, I might even go as far as to draw the line at east of the Rockies. Even so, for nearly everyone east of the Mississippi its noticeably shorter to fly to Europe than to get to Hawaii.

WorldFlier wrote:
Also, being 2x weekly that means 5/7ths of the week people have to connect at least once anyways.


Not exactly, the whole point of offering nonstop service 2x weekly is to get those people who might’ve been traveling on other days, to fly on the nonstop.
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:21 am

BWIAirport wrote:
Kind of surprised HNL-AUS isn't a redeye; it departs HNL at 1000 and arrives at AUS at 2210. The plane overnights and the return flight leaves AUS at 1000, so I would think a redeye that arrives between 0700-0900 would be better fleet utilization.


Even during normal times, HA doesn't operate red-eyes to the western CONUS. I'm pretty sure the only one was HNL-LAS.
 
AC4500
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:27 am

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
Kind of surprised HNL-AUS isn't a redeye; it departs HNL at 1000 and arrives at AUS at 2210. The plane overnights and the return flight leaves AUS at 1000, so I would think a redeye that arrives between 0700-0900 would be better fleet utilization.


Even during normal times, HA doesn't operate red-eyes to the western CONUS. I'm pretty sure the only one was HNL-LAS.

I believe they temporarily did HNL-SEA & HNL-SFO red-eyes during the 2019 holiday season. But yeah, the only red-eye that was regularly scheduled was HNL-LAS.
 
Kent350787
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:49 am

spinotter wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
lostsound wrote:
If Canadians can fill planes from YYT to MCO, an island with almost half the population of Oahu, surely HA have the potential to make 2 x week work from HNL. Plus they have Asian connection capabilities.


I like YYT - enough to keep going back... but people from YYT aren't leaving Hawaii behind when they go to MCO.


Aren't Hawaii and Florida different enough in their own ways to compare with the different worlds of Newfoundland and Florida as tourist magnets?


I think that's a pretty fair comment, especially once I remembered half my family travelled to both Hawaii and MCO at different times in 2019 - from SYD. I didn't get to visit Hawaii, only MCO.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:09 am

usflyer msp wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
Kind of surprised HNL-AUS isn't a redeye; it departs HNL at 1000 and arrives at AUS at 2210. The plane overnights and the return flight leaves AUS at 1000, so I would think a redeye that arrives between 0700-0900 would be better fleet utilization.


This schedule only requires one crew, a red-eye return would require two.

Besides a longer time out of base, wouldn't it be the same? They still have to spend the night at a hotel.
 
OB1504
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:14 am

jplatts wrote:
There are plans to extend the Brightline train from West Palm Beach to MCO along with plans to further extend the Brightline train to Tampa from MCO. The Brightline train would allow Hawaiians to go to South Florida from MCO once the Brightline train is extended to MCO airport and to the Tampa Bay area from MCO after the Brightline train is extended from MCO to Tampa.

Demand will also likely increase for HA HNL-MCO nonstop service once the Brightline train is extended to MCO with the access that the Brightline train would provide to South Florida from MCO.


There are already flights to South Florida from MCO as well as to South Florida from virtually every mainland airport HA serves. I don’t see Brightline having much—if any—effect on HNL-MCO, though it may significantly hurt intrastate Florida flying.
 
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Boiler905
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:40 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
MCO makes sense to me. It's connecting two large markets. People in Orlando want a tropical getaway and people in Hawaii want to visit the theme park capital of the world.

AUS I think is a quality add.

Long beach and ONT they maybe think they can deter southwest . These are odd times they can't just pour capacity on the same routes. Also people might feel safer avoiding airports like lax in these times , I mean they have to use the planes somewhere good time to try these markets I guess. I'm surprised they are back in long Beach but the outside setup there is built for covid



AUS will be instantly successful.

I can't help but think of all the cities HA didn't choose: SLC, DEN, MCI, STL, MSP, ATL, DFW, IAH, DTW just to name a few.

DEN/DFW/IAH/ATL may have nonstop service already, but it seems like HA doesn't want to poke the bear and risk a fare war on these long haul routes.
 
airplaneboy
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:42 am

AC4500 wrote:
PhilMcCrackin wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
Kind of surprised HNL-AUS isn't a redeye; it departs HNL at 1000 and arrives at AUS at 2210. The plane overnights and the return flight leaves AUS at 1000, so I would think a redeye that arrives between 0700-0900 would be better fleet utilization.


Even during normal times, HA doesn't operate red-eyes to the western CONUS. I'm pretty sure the only one was HNL-LAS.

I believe they temporarily did HNL-SEA & HNL-SFO red-eyes during the 2019 holiday season. But yeah, the only red-eye that was regularly scheduled was HNL-LAS.


They also flew a westbound redeye leaving LAS after midnight and arriving in HNL early in the morning. That was a popular flight for locals.
 
HALFA
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:42 am

AC4500 wrote:
PhilMcCrackin wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
Kind of surprised HNL-AUS isn't a redeye; it departs HNL at 1000 and arrives at AUS at 2210. The plane overnights and the return flight leaves AUS at 1000, so I would think a redeye that arrives between 0700-0900 would be better fleet utilization.


Even during normal times, HA doesn't operate red-eyes to the western CONUS. I'm pretty sure the only one was HNL-LAS.

I believe they temporarily did HNL-SEA & HNL-SFO red-eyes during the 2019 holiday season. But yeah, the only red-eye that was regularly scheduled was HNL-LAS.


HA had two regularly scheduled red eyes (pre pandemic) from HNL to both LAS (flight #8) and LAX (flight #4).
In 2019, two more regularly scheduled red eyes were added from HNL to both SEA and SFO. I would expect when things get back to normal, all 4 flights will be resumed.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:11 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
BWIAirport wrote:
Kind of surprised HNL-AUS isn't a redeye; it departs HNL at 1000 and arrives at AUS at 2210. The plane overnights and the return flight leaves AUS at 1000, so I would think a redeye that arrives between 0700-0900 would be better fleet utilization.


This schedule only requires one crew, a red-eye return would require two.

Besides a longer time out of base, wouldn't it be the same? They still have to spend the night at a hotel.


No. An immediate turnaround would require HA to pay to position a crew on another carrier or pay for a crew layover of 3-4 nights in a hotel instead of one.
 
JFKCMILAXFLL
Posts: 124
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:15 pm

MavyWavyATR wrote:
Is there an actual market for Honolulu-Orlando nonstop? This one is really strange.


I agree. I would say maybe theme park traffic, but the two biggest (AFAIK) Disney and Universal also have parks in Southern California (although having been to both, the Disney World experience is far superior to Disneyland. I've only been to Universal Studios Hollywood, so I can't speak to the Orlando version).
 
airbazar
Posts: 10476
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:42 pm

tomaheath wrote:
I live in the northeast and I’d take Hawaii over the Caribbean any day.

I can't believe we're rehashing this topic again :)
I live in the northeast too and have been to Hawaii as many times as I've been to the Caribbean. The 2 just don't even compare. They are as different as apples and oranges.
MIflyer12 wrote:
I would save the travel time and be content with the SoCal theme parks - but that's me. Any numbers on HNL-MCO O&D?

The SoCal theme parks will remain closed for the foreseeable future.
 
marcogr12
Posts: 639
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:56 pm

So why Orlando and not MIA? Wouldn't there be more chances of success for leisure traffic between the two in a bigger metro area with so many business centers,research centers, colleges, music industry names? Plus, MIA and by extension MCO is generally a tourism magnet as is the Hawaii name
 
Austin787
Posts: 432
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:39 pm

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:56 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
And remember that these flights are just to HNL; folks going to neighbor islands still have to connect and have tons of extant options for those connections on the mainland.

True. However, the AUS and MCO flights will be on HA A330. Which means most of the trip will be in 2-4-2 in economy and flat beds in first, which I consider among the best of the options to the Hawaii islands. I have searched flights for AUS-KOA and AUS-LIH. Most of the options I see involve 2 flights on narrowbodies with 3-3 in economy and standard recliners in first. Nice having AUS-HNL-LIH/KOA as additional options.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1462
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:14 pm

OB1504 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
There are plans to extend the Brightline train from West Palm Beach to MCO along with plans to further extend the Brightline train to Tampa from MCO. The Brightline train would allow Hawaiians to go to South Florida from MCO once the Brightline train is extended to MCO airport and to the Tampa Bay area from MCO after the Brightline train is extended from MCO to Tampa.

Demand will also likely increase for HA HNL-MCO nonstop service once the Brightline train is extended to MCO with the access that the Brightline train would provide to South Florida from MCO.


There are already flights to South Florida from MCO as well as to South Florida from virtually every mainland airport HA serves. I don’t see Brightline having much—if any—effect on HNL-MCO, though it may significantly hurt intrastate Florida flying.

I don't even see it hurting intrastate flying that much. Based on Brightline's current fares, flying is likely to remain the cheaper option and even with the need to get to the airport a longer time in advance of the flight as compared to getting to the train station before departure, it will likely be less travel time overall as well. Unless, they find a way to price competitively, I don't see what the draw for Brightline to Orlando is, especially if the station is going to be at MCO.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8936
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:19 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
So why Orlando and not MIA? Wouldn't there be more chances of success for leisure traffic between the two in a bigger metro area with so many business centers,research centers, colleges, music industry names? Plus, MIA and by extension MCO is generally a tourism magnet as is the Hawaii name

As someone pointed out upthread, there is a large population in Central Florida of transplants from the Midwest and Northeast that are demographic of retirees, empty-nesters, and group travel that have disposable income and a propensity to travel.
Not to mention, MCO and Central Florida is large enough on its own as a large metro.

Both of these routes may not reach the bar in normal times, and I'm still nowhere confident they will actually start at the dates listed simply based on the reality as we work through where we are at with the virus, but its worth a chance. They may or may not last, but they've got the aircraft to try these in the near-term and maybe will sustain itself, maybe not.

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