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Cubsrule
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:31 pm

Austin787 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
And remember that these flights are just to HNL; folks going to neighbor islands still have to connect and have tons of extant options for those connections on the mainland.

True. However, the AUS and MCO flights will be on HA A330. Which means most of the trip will be in 2-4-2 in economy and flat beds in first, which I consider among the best of the options to the Hawaii islands. I have searched flights for AUS-KOA and AUS-LIH. Most of the options I see involve 2 flights on narrowbodies with 3-3 in economy and standard recliners in first. Nice having AUS-HNL-LIH/KOA as additional options.


The hard product is better than some for sure, although isn't AUS-DFW-OGG pretty similar from a hard product perspective to AUS-HNL-OGG? The trouble for HA is market fragmentation and the fact that AUS - while dynamic and growing - is not a huge market to Hawaii to begin with.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:42 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
So why Orlando and not MIA? Wouldn't there be more chances of success for leisure traffic between the two in a bigger metro area with so many business centers,research centers, colleges, music industry names? Plus, MIA and by extension MCO is generally a tourism magnet as is the Hawaii name


MIA-Hawaii is tiny, even combining MIA&FLL, MCO is still twice as large.
 
LightChop2Chop
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:04 pm

MCO HNL should do fine. Islanders of every sort and people that live and work in sun destinations want to get out too. They get island fever and need to just get off. MCO will fit that bill for those with families. Its only 2X so should not be that hard to fill once the pandemic situation resolves. Connects from Asia in due course should also help. why connect at LAX, DFW etc when you can do so in HNL. Do a CM and sell a free stopover as part of the ticket.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:13 pm

airbazar wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
I would save the travel time and be content with the SoCal theme parks - but that's me. Any numbers on HNL-MCO O&D?

The SoCal theme parks will remain closed for the foreseeable future.


That's likely a function of months, not years, and MCO is always going to be farther away than LAX.

HA may be looking at this fundamentally as a question of contribution margin: We can't fly to SYD, BNE or AKL, so where can we use widebodies? Whether this - on a PRASM basis - winds up better than more frequencies to JFK/BOS (or IAD) is a key question.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:51 pm

Never say never. With airlines getting creative these days, maybe WN will launch SNA-HNL ,or UA will jump back in.


True. The route was apparently profitable for both Aloha and Continental back in the day, but just barely. They had to frequently offload luggage and block out seats, which made the route a logistical problem. I suppose the right plane with the right loading might work, maybe a MAX or NEO to cut down on costs. It would be so nice to just drive 20 minutes up the road and hop onto a flight to Hawaii. I'd be going much more frequently than now.

A guy can dream. Sigh...
 
MAH4546
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:52 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
So why Orlando and not MIA? Wouldn't there be more chances of success for leisure traffic between the two in a bigger metro area with so many business centers,research centers, colleges, music industry names? Plus, MIA and by extension MCO is generally a tourism magnet as is the Hawaii name

As someone pointed out upthread, there is a large population in Central Florida of transplants from the Midwest and Northeast that are demographic of retirees, empty-nesters, and group travel that have disposable income and a propensity to travel.
Not to mention, MCO and Central Florida is large enough on its own as a large metro.

Both of these routes may not reach the bar in normal times, and I'm still nowhere confident they will actually start at the dates listed simply based on the reality as we work through where we are at with the virus, but its worth a chance. They may or may not last, but they've got the aircraft to try these in the near-term and maybe
will sustain itself, maybe not.


No, this isn’t about bringing traffic to Hawaii from Florida. If it was then they would launch MIA. It’s about the fact that Orlando is a large inbound tourism market from Honolulu.

That said, yeah, this route probably won’t last. It’s a filler route like the UA P2P Florida flying or UA flying ORDTLV.
 
USAirALB
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:00 pm

Both AUS and MCO are a bit surprising IMO, but I would say AUS more so, especially when larger metro areas on the East Coast like WAS (CSA 9.7 million), PHL (7.1 million), CLT (3 million) lack HNL service. UA flies IAD-HNL, although I don't think the flight is year-round and is a Saturday-only service.

AUS is actually a fairly small metro area (less than 2.3 million last I checked), it just happens to have the right balance of a) a great marketing team that "branded" the city, b) a thriving corporate sector, and c) a decently sized tourism industry.

I wonder if the plethora of Californians moving to AUS helps. To most East Coasters, given its distance, Hawaii seems almost exotic and other-worldly. A friend from California (who goes to California quite often) was shocked when I pointed out that DC was roughly a thousand miles closer to Paris than Honolulu. It's that far.

I've yet to go to Hawaii, but I know some people from the East that said the amount of time it took to get there essentially made it not worth it. St. Lucia provides a Hawaii/South Pacific-like setting and is only a 3.5 hour flight away.
 
airbazar
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:07 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
I would save the travel time and be content with the SoCal theme parks - but that's me. Any numbers on HNL-MCO O&D?

The SoCal theme parks will remain closed for the foreseeable future.


That's likely a function of months, not years, and MCO is always going to be farther away than LAX.


Which is about how long this route is going to last. Anyone who believes that any new routes being added now are anything but temporary effort to generate cashflow and keep some semblance of an operation, is in desperate need of a reality check. For example, do you think UA is going to continue to fly p-2-p from the northeast to Florida after the Pandemic? Do you think HA will continue to tie up an A330 for MCO after the Japanese market opens up? Come on, get real. The fact that they aren't even operating it as a red-eye is only possible because they have no other route to put it on.
 
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klm617
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:14 pm

airbazar wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
The SoCal theme parks will remain closed for the foreseeable future.


That's likely a function of months, not years, and MCO is always going to be farther away than LAX.


Which is about how long this route is going to last. Anyone who believes that any new routes being added now are anything but temporary effort to generate cashflow and keep some semblance of an operation, is in desperate need of a reality check. For example, do you think UA is going to continue to fly p-2-p from the northeast to Florida after the Pandemic? Do you think HA will continue to tie up an A330 for MCO after the Japanese market opens up? Come on, get real. The fact that they aren't even operating it as a red-eye is only possible because they have no other route to put it on.


So the $64,000 question is how can these routes be viable in the worst of times when they are not being flown in the best of times.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:20 pm

The SoCal theme parks will remain closed for the foreseeable future.


Trust me, that's not gonna happen. I predict February or March for theme park reopenings, at the latest! As a Southern California resident, I can tell you that the region can't take much more of this lockdown stuff. I'm speaking economically, not politically, so please don't anyone think that I'm preaching politics. I'm not. But... The bankruptcies are starting to pile up, the natives are restless, and I'm already seeing civil disobedience occurring. Restaurants are beginning to flat out defy Governor Newsom's shut down orders and continue outdoor dining, especially after the state's top Health Department doctor admitted having incomplete information on whether outdoor dining and other outdoor activities actually do cause higher rates of Covid infections (his statements were read into evidence yesterday by Mark Geragos who was suing over LA area restaurant shutdowns). I saw two restaurants flouting the ban yesterday, and one this morning.

So, what does this all mean? The economic pressure to reopen will shortly become too great to ignore. The state, and especially Newsom, will have to cave in or simply be rendered irrelevant. There's no way around it. Sheriffs are already publicly ignoring his shutdown enforcement orders, and San Mateo County, hardly a red area, flat out said it was doing the same. Trust me, theme parks will reopen sooner rather than later. That will bring in more tourists and travelers, especially as the vaccines begin to roll out, and vaccine availability will be another reason to reopen in the near term.
Last edited by Aptivaboy on Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
rampbro
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:21 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
lostsound wrote:
If Canadians can fill planes from YYT to MCO, an island with almost half the population of Oahu, surely HA have the potential to make 2 x week work from HNL. Plus they have Asian connection capabilities.


I like YYT - enough to keep going back... but people from YYT aren't leaving Hawaii behind when they go to MCO.


Typical CFA logic. If ya knows ya knows.
 
nine4nine
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:23 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
Never say never. With airlines getting creative these days, maybe WN will launch SNA-HNL ,or UA will jump back in.


True. The route was apparently profitable for both Aloha and Continental back in the day, but just barely. They had to frequently offload luggage and block out seats, which made the route a logistical problem. I suppose the right plane with the right loading might work, maybe a MAX or NEO to cut down on costs. It would be so nice to just drive 20 minutes up the road and hop onto a flight to Hawaii. I'd be going much more frequently than now.

A guy can dream. Sigh...



Agree. I’m hoping with the MAX7 coming online soon that SNA will get some Hawaii service back. The drive to LGB from south OC especially with all the construction on the 405 added can be atrocious.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:30 pm

Agree. I’m hoping with the MAX7 coming online soon that SNA will get some Hawaii service back. The drive to LGB from south OC especially with all the construction on the 405 added can be atrocious.


I'm in SJC. I can relate! With service out of ONT now, the drive there using the 241 isn't too bad, cutting out that entire I-5/I-57 distance, and certainly no worse than LGB. SNA would be... Heavenly.
 
nine4nine
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:44 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
Agree. I’m hoping with the MAX7 coming online soon that SNA will get some Hawaii service back. The drive to LGB from south OC especially with all the construction on the 405 added can be atrocious.


I'm in SJC. I can relate! With service out of ONT now, the drive there using the 241 isn't too bad, cutting out that entire I-5/I-57 distance, and certainly no worse than LGB. SNA would be... Heavenly.



Hi neighbor I’m a few miles south of you in SC. Yea it’s a pretty good option to have to avoid the LGB/LAX drive as long as you’re the catching a late afternoon/evening flight, as you know that East 91/North 71/North 15 is a real you know what after 3p.

I wish the 330 offering carried over to the 321N because I found the new HA 321N to be quite lackluster. Aside from having a small premium offering on HA WN will be good competition with a comparable hard product from LGB and probably ONT soon as well
 
FlyFree27
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 5:51 pm

MCO is going to be interesting to watch... might end up like the old America West 3am LAS-PHX.. whole airplane full of employees haha
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:36 pm

Hi neighbor I’m a few miles south of you in SC. Yea it’s a pretty good option to have to avoid the LGB/LAX drive as long as you’re the catching a late afternoon/evening flight, as you know that East 91/North 71/North 15 is a real you know what after 3p.

I wish the 330 offering carried over to the 321N because I found the new HA 321N to be quite lackluster. Aside from having a small premium offering on HA WN will be good competition with a comparable hard product from LGB and probably ONT soon as well


I flew the A321 OGG-SAN right after they entered service in first class. Agreed, it was lackluster compared to their A330 offering. Indeed, I found their older 767s to be comfier in first than the A321s, and the one we were on right before their retirement was pretty ratty and tired. Indeed, UA's standard 738 first was equal to if not slightly superior in most respects to HA's A321 first other than food.

Where I work I'm in SNA's flight path here in Aliso Viejo. I dream of watching Hawaiian metal overhead.
 
KMCOFlyer
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:51 pm

USAirALB wrote:
especially when larger metro areas on the East Coast like WAS (CSA 9.7 million),


United flies non-stop from IAD-HNL (it looses daily service in the non-Summer months).
 
USAirALB
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:37 pm

KMCOFlyer wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
especially when larger metro areas on the East Coast like WAS (CSA 9.7 million),


United flies non-stop from IAD-HNL (it looses daily service in the non-Summer months).

I’m aware of that.
USAirALB wrote:
UA flies IAD-HNL, although I don't think the flight is year-round and is a Saturday-only service.
 
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adv40624
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:51 pm

I would have loved to see them come into Denver and possibly partner with Frontier for passenger feed. UA has the nonstop market to Hawaii locked up in Denver with a daily 777 to Honolulu and 757 service to OGG. They also offered nonstop service to LIH and KOA before Covid.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:53 pm

I wonder if meals will be served on these routes. Last time I flew UA to Hawaii, only a bag of pretzels was offered.
 
WN732
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:13 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
I wonder if meals will be served on these routes. Last time I flew UA to Hawaii, only a bag of pretzels was offered.


It would be pretty pitiful to not get anything for an 8+ hour flight (AUS-HNL) and especially the MCO-HNL flight. Last time I flew with them they had sandwhich boxes and plentiful snacks. Not great, but it was decent enough for an economy seat. That was a much shorter flight from SAN-OGG. I recently flew ATL-SAN on DL and the onboard snacks were sufficient, but I would not want to go 2 or more hours more without anything other than a Biscoff.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:15 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

This schedule only requires one crew, a red-eye return would require two.

Besides a longer time out of base, wouldn't it be the same? They still have to spend the night at a hotel.


No. An immediate turnaround would require HA to pay to position a crew on another carrier or pay for a crew layover of 3-4 nights in a hotel instead of one.

Oh whoops I forgot it's only a 2x weekly. Yes, this is the best schedule.
 
jayunited
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:32 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
I wonder if meals will be served on these routes. Last time I flew UA to Hawaii, only a bag of pretzels was offered.


While I 100% agree full meal service should be offered UA only offers buy on board in coach. The bag of pretzels is free but I wish UA would bring back meal service on these long haul flights to Hawaii.

adv40624 wrote:
I would have loved to see them come into Denver and possibly partner with Frontier for passenger feed. UA has the nonstop market to Hawaii locked up in Denver with a daily 777 to Honolulu and 757 service to OGG. They also offered nonstop service to LIH and KOA before Covid.


I am surprised HA isn't at DEN although I don't see a need for them partner up with Frontier. I think they would find success on their own but they would have to contend with UA prior to COVID during the summer UA was 10x daily DEN-HNL (3x weekly service was on a 752 in addition to the daily 777), OGG had been upguaged to a 777 as well in 2019, while LIH and KOA were both daily on RR 752s.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:50 pm

I am surprised HA wasn't in DEN prior and now. With the growing population on the Front Range over the past 2 decades that shows no sign of slowing down, the overall transient population, the higher than average propensity to travel, and that DEN isn't really a fortress hub for any of the major players is seemed like there is a niche or market there, even in the shadow of UA.
 
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airzim
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:58 pm

jayunited wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
I wonder if meals will be served on these routes. Last time I flew UA to Hawaii, only a bag of pretzels was offered.


While I 100% agree full meal service should be offered UA only offers buy on board in coach. The bag of pretzels is free but I wish UA would bring back meal service on these long haul flights to Hawaii.

adv40624 wrote:
I would have loved to see them come into Denver and possibly partner with Frontier for passenger feed. UA has the nonstop market to Hawaii locked up in Denver with a daily 777 to Honolulu and 757 service to OGG. They also offered nonstop service to LIH and KOA before Covid.


I am surprised HA isn't at DEN although I don't see a need for them partner up with Frontier. I think they would find success on their own but they would have to contend with UA prior to COVID during the summer UA was 10x daily DEN-HNL (3x weekly service was on a 752 in addition to the daily 777), OGG had been upguaged to a 777 as well in 2019, while LIH and KOA were both daily on RR 752s.


HA would get slaughtered in DEN. United benefits from the massive hub and perfect timing of inbounds from cities east of Denver and in the Mountain time zone to feed those Hawaii flights. Same with the redeye returns. United could just dump capacity and drive the yields to pennies until HA finally calls uncle. I think HA knows this and has stayed clear of DEN and DFW, and IAH and SLC for that matter. Their other markets either have little competition (secondary cities in California), BOS, JFK, or have lots of local demand, OAK, LAS, LAX, PHX, SEA, SFO.
 
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September11
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:26 am

Congratulations HA
 
Planes4you
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:52 am

If Hawaiian wants to keep the route going into 2022 and beyond they'll definitely need to retime it
 
Planes4you
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:57 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
01pewterz28 wrote:
Lot's of traffic to Disney you will have a bunch of folks heading to WDW then head to Honolulu for Aulani (Disney DVC Resort) we are going to love this route. I did not look forward to flying MCO-LAX-HNL with a family of 7 to stay at Aulani resort. Same with folks wanting to travel to Orlando hit the parks for 1-2 days and then a Disney cruise. I do not see HA having a problem filling seats once Covid is thing of the past and this going 6-7 days a week flight.


I can assure the market of people taking vacations to Disney and Hawaii within the same year is very small.


Hawaii is between Japan and California both of which have Disney Theme parks and also Universal Studios, sure its not the same but still. Also the article says 140 travel between Hawaii and Orlando daily pre-covid so that's around 50% in regards to LF.
 
LoneStarMike
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:32 am

Ziyulu wrote:
I wonder if meals will be served on these routes. Last time I flew UA to Hawaii, only a bag of pretzels was offered.


From the press release issued by AUS:

Hawaiian Airlines announces new Austin service for April 2021

Guests will enjoy island-inspired complimentary meals and the roominess and superior comfort aboard Hawaiian’s 278-seat Airbus A330 aircraft.
 
MAH4546
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:55 am

klm617 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

That's likely a function of months, not years, and MCO is always going to be farther away than LAX.


Which is about how long this route is going to last. Anyone who believes that any new routes being added now are anything but temporary effort to generate cashflow and keep some semblance of an operation, is in desperate need of a reality check. For example, do you think UA is going to continue to fly p-2-p from the northeast to Florida after the Pandemic? Do you think HA will continue to tie up an A330 for MCO after the Japanese market opens up? Come on, get real. The fact that they aren't even operating it as a red-eye is only possible because they have no other route to put it on.


So the $64,000 question is how can these routes be viable in the worst of times when they are not being flown in the best of times.


That's not a $64k question at all. The routes still aren't viable but airlines needs to generate cash flow. And this will generate cash flow, even if it's not net positive. They probably analyzed a bunch of routes and decided Austin and Orlando will lose the least amount of money right now.
 
airbazar
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:40 pm

klm617 wrote:
So the $64,000 question is how can these routes be viable in the worst of times when they are not being flown in the best of times.

They are not. It's about minimizing losses and generating cashflow. There are also other considerations that go into putting planes in the air like keeping crews current. But the main point is, MCO is not more viable than Japan and at some point that airplane will be needed for Japan routes.

Aptivaboy wrote:
The SoCal theme parks will remain closed for the foreseeable future.

Trust me, that's not gonna happen. I predict February or March for theme park reopenings, at the latest!


You're dreaming. You like most people are being swept in the vaccine hype and ignoring perhaps the most important detail: There is no evidence or study as of yet showing that this vaccine prevents infection. It merely alleviates symptoms. That is why all the media publications refer to 95% illness prevention, not infection prevention. Social distance guidelines will be with us for a while and I don't see LA of all places lifting those restrictions.
 
Boof02671
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:03 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Both AUS and MCO are a bit surprising IMO, but I would say AUS more so, especially when larger metro areas on the East Coast like WAS (CSA 9.7 million), PHL (7.1 million), CLT (3 million) lack HNL service. UA flies IAD-HNL, although I don't think the flight is year-round and is a Saturday-only service.

AUS is actually a fairly small metro area (less than 2.3 million last I checked), it just happens to have the right balance of a) a great marketing team that "branded" the city, b) a thriving corporate sector, and c) a decently sized tourism industry.

I wonder if the plethora of Californians moving to AUS helps. To most East Coasters, given its distance, Hawaii seems almost exotic and other-worldly. A friend from California (who goes to California quite often) was shocked when I pointed out that DC was roughly a thousand miles closer to Paris than Honolulu. It's that far.

I've yet to go to Hawaii, but I know some people from the East that said the amount of time it took to get there essentially made it not worth it. St. Lucia provides a Hawaii/South Pacific-like setting and is only a 3.5 hour flight away.

US had CLT-HNL flights. They didn’t work
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:48 pm

You're dreaming. You like most people are being swept in the vaccine hype and ignoring perhaps the most important detail: There is no evidence or study as of yet showing that this vaccine prevents infection. It merely alleviates symptoms. That is why all the media publications refer to 95% illness prevention, not infection prevention. Social distance guidelines will be with us for a while and I don't see LA of all places lifting those restrictions.


Wrong. You clearly didn't read my posting closely. I wasn't making a medical prediction, although I did say that the vaccine will help. I was making an economic and civil disobedience argument. Do you live in SoCal? I'm guessing not, or you'd understand the mood here better. Seriously, counties, law enforcement, small biz, they're all beginning to ignore closure and lockdown orders, or not enforce them. That's my point. Its happening already. I passed yet another diner on my way to work this morning still having outdoor dining, and another last night on my way to the grocery store. They're giving Gavin Newsom the big middle finger and opening. At some point, the pressure to reopen generally will become so serious from an economic standpoint that the closure orders will be rescinded, altered or so seriously ignored that they are rendered moot. Public pressure to reopen playgrounds has already resulted in a change of the governor's orders in just one day - people basically said either reopen the playgrounds for kids, or we'll use them anyway. Newsom blinked. Over playgrounds.

So, back on track with the thread, yes, things will reopen sooner rather than later and that includes theme parks. That will result in an increase in air travel, including traffic from HA to and from SoCal. It just will. Check back in March, at the latest. You'll see.
 
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usxguy
Posts: 1974
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:11 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Just remember, Hawaiians travel to. They love Orlando. That's the market here, not Orlando to Hawaii.


You'd be surprised. I did the Florida/Hawaii commute for years and was always surprised to see how many folks were connecting with me via ATL or IAH to HNL. And with nonstop service, you'll be pulling from folks in Tampa/Ft Myers/Northern SoFla. Even my last MCO/KOA flight had about 18 of us connecting on Alaska.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2713
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:32 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Both AUS and MCO are a bit surprising IMO, but I would say AUS more so, especially when larger metro areas on the East Coast like WAS (CSA 9.7 million), PHL (7.1 million), CLT (3 million) lack HNL service. UA flies IAD-HNL, although I don't think the flight is year-round and is a Saturday-only service.

AUS is actually a fairly small metro area (less than 2.3 million last I checked), it just happens to have the right balance of a) a great marketing team that "branded" the city, b) a thriving corporate sector, and c) a decently sized tourism industry.

I wonder if the plethora of Californians moving to AUS helps. To most East Coasters, given its distance, Hawaii seems almost exotic and other-worldly. A friend from California (who goes to California quite often) was shocked when I pointed out that DC was roughly a thousand miles closer to Paris than Honolulu. It's that far.

I've yet to go to Hawaii, but I know some people from the East that said the amount of time it took to get there essentially made it not worth it. St. Lucia provides a Hawaii/South Pacific-like setting and is only a 3.5 hour flight away.

US had CLT-HNL flights. They didn’t work

They didn’t work with equipment US used. The ancient 762s frequently had to make fuel stops in PHX/LAX.

But I agree CLT-HNL is likely not returning, although I will say AA is the weakest airline from the East Coast to access Hawaii.
 
Rookinla
Posts: 288
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:57 am

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:24 pm

MCO-HNL is only 2X weekly. It’s not planned as a daily route. The number I have seen is around 100 PDEW for MCO-HNL. That doesn’t include inter island so KOA, OGG and LIH raise those numbers a little bit. Also this flight will draw from other Florida cities as people will drive from TPA, JAX, etc. Add to that the market stimulation that is likely to occur and the route does have the ability to succeed at a low frequency as is planned. Time will tell but I’m not ready to call this doomed before it even starts.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:57 pm

https://www.anna.aero/2020/12/10/hawaii ... at-demand/

"Booking data obtained via OAG Traffic Analyser shows that Honolulu – Orlando had 66,000 round-trip point-to-point passengers in 2019, while Austin had 39,000 and Ontario 15,000. Crucially, the latter excludes demand leaked from its core catchment to Los Angeles.

Orlando was Honolulu’s second-largest unserved market to the US mainland after Baltimore. Austin, meanwhile, was seventh, behind St Louis (third), San Antonio (fourth), Kansas City (fifth), and Philadelphia (sixth).

To all of Hawaii, Orlando had 101,000 passengers, Austin 83,000, and Ontario 32,000 (again excluding leakage)."
 
cxi727
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:48 am

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:51 am

Has any carrier ever flown scheduled service between Hawaii and Florida?
 
jagraham
Posts: 1209
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:47 am

JFKCMILAXFLL wrote:
MavyWavyATR wrote:
Is there an actual market for Honolulu-Orlando nonstop? This one is really strange.


I agree. I would say maybe theme park traffic, but the two biggest (AFAIK) Disney and Universal also have parks in Southern California (although having been to both, the Disney World experience is far superior to Disneyland. I've only been to Universal Studios Hollywood, so I can't speak to the Orlando version).


Also, HNL is a world market. Most HNL tourists were not American. I am not sure that the 2019 HNL tourist population would fill a daily plane to MCO, but the number of people cruising out of HNL on Disney was quite large. Some of those people might go to Aulani, then to MCO on years they don't want to cruise. When things reopen.
 
LoneStarMike
Posts: 2808
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2000 1:02 pm

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:47 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Orlando was Honolulu’s second-largest unserved market to the US mainland after Baltimore. Austin, meanwhile, was seventh, behind St Louis (third), San Antonio (fourth), Kansas City (fifth), and Philadelphia (sixth).

To all of Hawaii, Orlando had 101,000 passengers, Austin 83,000, and Ontario 32,000 (again excluding leakage)."


It mentions SAT is 4th largest unserved market. If AUS was 7th with 83,000 passengers, then SAT has to have more than that. Combined, it would probably be at least 170,000. I think many in the San Antonio metro area might make the hour and a half drive to AUS for a nonstop flight to Hawaii.
 
lostsound
Posts: 701
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 1:43 pm

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Sat Dec 12, 2020 3:37 pm

A couple years ago HA had it’s eyes on BUR. I’d love to see that come to fruition now that A321s/NEOs are flying in and out on trans-cons. ...well hopefully they will be again in the new year anyways.
 
MDW22L31C
Posts: 263
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Sat Dec 12, 2020 3:43 pm

After HA left ONT ATA had 737 service for a short time. I used it above every 2 months
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1682
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Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:30 pm

lostsound wrote:
A couple years ago HA had it’s eyes on BUR. I’d love to see that come to fruition now that A321s/NEOs are flying in and out on trans-cons. ...well hopefully they will be again in the new year anyways.


Actually, wasn't there some issue with the BUR terminal area pavement having to be reinforced before B6 could even send its A321 in? IIRC that ultimately got resolved, and rumor had it HA was very interested in studying the aircraft's performance data. Alas, BUR has been hit so hard by the pandemic that UA recently cut ALL SFO flights. B6 won't resume service to BUR until April. With all this in mind, HA may not be very interested in BUR these days?

MDW22L31C wrote:
After HA left ONT ATA had 737 service for a short time. I used it above every 2 months


Sadly, that ATA service was the last time ONT offered any kind of nonstop service to Hawaii. The Great Recession hit the Inland Empire very hard, but the area has really bounced back in recent years. Also it seems the new ONT airport management has done an incredibly great job. I never would have expected to see B6 and HA return, let alone a major Asian carrier offering transpacific flights. Hopefully HA's return to ONT goes well. It sounds like this airport is doing quite well these days.
 
TEY1330
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:46 am

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:07 am

Who will ground handle HA at AUS?
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:02 pm

Honolulu to Austin, Ontario, and Orlando are already getting more frequencies.

HNL-AUS goes from 2x weekly to 3x weekly between May 28 and August 13.
HNL-ONT goes from 5x weekly to daily from May 24. It seems to be a permanent increase.
HNL-MCO goes from 2x weekly to 3x weekly between June 1 and August 10.

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/hawaiia ... o-flights/
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:22 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Honolulu to Austin, Ontario, and Orlando are already getting more frequencies.

HNL-AUS goes from 2x weekly to 3x weekly between May 28 and August 13.
HNL-ONT goes from 5x weekly to daily from May 24. It seems to be a permanent increase.
HNL-MCO goes from 2x weekly to 3x weekly between June 1 and August 10.

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/hawaiia ... o-flights/


Looking at Google flights looks like HNL-BOS goes from 3x-5x weekly (Tues, Thurs, Fri, Sat & Sun) starting May 25th!
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5246
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:26 pm

HA has the planes. So many international routes grounded for summer. They have the staff. An increase sounds reasonable at this time to me, they have the booking data so it's not a blind guess on their part.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:24 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Honolulu to Austin, Ontario, and Orlando are already getting more frequencies.

HNL-AUS goes from 2x weekly to 3x weekly between May 28 and August 13.
HNL-ONT goes from 5x weekly to daily from May 24. It seems to be a permanent increase.
HNL-MCO goes from 2x weekly to 3x weekly between June 1 and August 10.

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/hawaiia ... o-flights/


Looking at Google flights looks like HNL-BOS goes from 3x-5x weekly (Tues, Thurs, Fri, Sat & Sun) starting May 25th!


Is that an increase compared to before COVID?
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:29 am

Ishrion wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Honolulu to Austin, Ontario, and Orlando are already getting more frequencies.

HNL-AUS goes from 2x weekly to 3x weekly between May 28 and August 13.
HNL-ONT goes from 5x weekly to daily from May 24. It seems to be a permanent increase.
HNL-MCO goes from 2x weekly to 3x weekly between June 1 and August 10.

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/hawaiia ... o-flights/


Looking at Google flights looks like HNL-BOS goes from 3x-5x weekly (Tues, Thurs, Fri, Sat & Sun) starting May 25th!


Is that an increase compared to before COVID?


I could be wrong but I think 5x weekly was their pre-COVID high schedule. I can’t recall it being more than 5x, but someone please correct me if I’m wrong.
 
Wneast
Posts: 1069
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: HA announces OGG-LGB, ONT-HNL, AUS-HNL, MCO-HNL

Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:33 am

Does anyone see Hawaiian adding more main land cities ?

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