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SCFirefighter
Topic Author
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:42 am

Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:27 pm

Hey everyone,

I searched the forums and didn't see anything posted but this morning a Western Global 747-400 (N356KD) was damaged while taxing out of the UPS Ramp for its scheduled flight to ONT. I would post an article as most folks do, but in this case, I was at the airport doing some spotting on the cargo heavies. There wasn't much if any ATC chatter across LiveATC I guess because it occurred on the ramp before WGN crossed the NMA threshold to taxiway F on the south end of the UPS cargo ramp (East Cargo Ramp) at CAE.

I didn't hear it happen or witness the moment it did happen, but as WGN was taxiing out, an A-300 was coming into the ramp and had to stop due to WGN blocking the entrance and the A-300 remained there with at least one engine running for about 30-45 minutes before it was eventually shut down and a tow arrived and pushed it backwards to the opposite cargo ramp entrance. The 747 remained in place from about 8:10AM until about 10:30AM before it too was connected to a tug and pulled back to the ramp with the engines shut down and the APU running.

I honestly had no idea what was going on and assumed it was a technical fault/issue. Needless to say, when I began to examine my photos, it became pretty clear what had transpired. Also for what its worth, the light pole the wing apparently struck is right around 150' from the centerline leading into/out of the ramp.

Here's one of the pics I took of the damage to the left-wing/winglet.

Image

Crazy morning.
 
PANAMsterdam
Posts: 377
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:45 am

Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:32 pm

Yikes, that doesn't look good. She won't be flying for a couple of days. Although a broken of wingtip seems easier to repair than the wing itself I assume?

Hopefully she wasn't carrying any medical supplies!
 
CATIIIevery5yrs
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:40 am

Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:35 pm

I'm no 747 pro but aren't they able to fly with a deferred winglet? Assuming of course the post incident inspections show otherwise okay.
 
UPS757Pilot
Posts: 196
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:22 am

Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:39 pm

The CAE ramp has several light poles around it and can be a tricky place to taxi big jets. Didn't WGN have this happen last year in RFD with an MD-11?
 
PANAMsterdam
Posts: 377
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:45 am

Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:42 pm

CATIIIevery5yrs wrote:
I'm no 747 pro but aren't they able to fly with a deferred winglet? Assuming of course the post incident inspections show otherwise okay.


I just spotted this picture on the frontpage. A rare 747-400 without winglets.

So it's possible, but I'm not sure if these winglets can simply be screwed off.
 
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pilotkev1
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:53 pm

Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:50 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
CATIIIevery5yrs wrote:
I'm no 747 pro but aren't they able to fly with a deferred winglet? Assuming of course the post incident inspections show otherwise okay.


I just spotted this picture on the frontpage. A rare 747-400 without winglets.

So it's possible, but I'm not sure if these winglets can simply be screwed off.


747-400Ds don't have winglets by design.
 
UPS757Pilot
Posts: 196
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:22 am

Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:51 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
CATIIIevery5yrs wrote:
I'm no 747 pro but aren't they able to fly with a deferred winglet? Assuming of course the post incident inspections show otherwise okay.


I just spotted this picture on the frontpage. A rare 747-400 without winglets.

So it's possible, but I'm not sure if these winglets can simply be screwed off.

Those 747s at JAL/ANA didn't have winglets, they were used domestically and the cost to add them wasn't justified.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10838
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:53 pm

VIDEO: There's a discussion of this incident in the 2020 Peak thread, starting around post 652, which includes a video taken shortly after the incident. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1454329&start=650#p22563545

WINGLET: Our member 747Classic lays out in an adjacent post in that thread what is required to defer the winglet. It's Western Global, so it will be interesting to see how quickly they're able (or not) to get the a/c back in the air.

To the OP, great photos! Good job and nice report!
 
SCFirefighter
Topic Author
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:42 am

Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:56 pm

wjcandee wrote:
There's a discussion of this incident in the 2020 Peak thread, starting around post 652, which includes a video taken shortly after the incident. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1454329&start=650#p22563545

Our member 747Classic lays out in an adjacent post what is required to defer the winglet.

To the OP, great photos! Good job and nice report!



Thanks so much, really appreciate that!
 
UPS757Pilot
Posts: 196
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:22 am

Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:59 pm

Airlines borrow parts from each other all the time as normal practice. UPS could have one there from SDF this afternoon if desired. Not sure where their mechanics are though.
wjcandee wrote:
VIDEO: There's a discussion of this incident in the 2020 Peak thread, starting around post 652, which includes a video taken shortly after the incident. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1454329&start=650#p22563545

WINGLET: Our member 747Classic lays out in an adjacent post in that thread what is required to defer the winglet. It's Western Global, so it will be interesting to see how quickly they're able (or not) to get the a/c back in the air.

To the OP, great photos! Good job and nice report!
Last edited by UPS757Pilot on Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10838
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:47 pm

UPS757Pilot wrote:
Airlines borrow parts from each other all the time as normal practice. UPS could have one there from SDF this afternoon if desired. Not sure where their mechanics are though.


I think you hit the nail on the head: Mechanics.

But there's hope: after being at their SHV maintenance base for a week, 744 N344KD had to divert back there 10 minutes into its ferry flight to Chicago last Saturday, which caused it to sit there for yet another 8 days. Tonight, finally, they got her in the air and on her way to SDF. We'll see how she does. And maybe that means that someone is available to go have a look at 356. :smile:
 
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Spacepope
Posts: 5480
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:04 am

[photoid][/photoid]If there is no other damage to the wing they can remove what’s left of the winglet and still fly, with some restrictions. Plenty of photos in the database of 744s of all flavors operating missing one.

 
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tb727
Posts: 2291
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:40 pm

Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:25 am

Probably remove it, put it on CDL and finish up Peak without it. Small weight penalty and small fuel burn increase of a couple percent won't be a factor I'd imagine if it's just staying domestic.
 
Newark727
Posts: 2556
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:37 am

Welp. That explains why I didn't catch it at ONT this morning...
 
PANAMsterdam
Posts: 377
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:45 am

Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:13 am

pilotkev1 wrote:
PANAMsterdam wrote:
CATIIIevery5yrs wrote:
I'm no 747 pro but aren't they able to fly with a deferred winglet? Assuming of course the post incident inspections show otherwise okay.


I just spotted this picture on the frontpage. A rare 747-400 without winglets.

So it's possible, but I'm not sure if these winglets can simply be screwed off.


747-400Ds don't have winglets by design.


UPS757Pilot wrote:
PANAMsterdam wrote:
CATIIIevery5yrs wrote:
I'm no 747 pro but aren't they able to fly with a deferred winglet? Assuming of course the post incident inspections show otherwise okay.


I just spotted this picture on the frontpage. A rare 747-400 without winglets.

So it's possible, but I'm not sure if these winglets can simply be screwed off.

Those 747s at JAL/ANA didn't have winglets, they were used domestically and the cost to add them wasn't justified.



Thanks a lot ! I didn't know that :)
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8042
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:51 am

Nice work.

Perhaps you need to tell them the left wing is ok but the right isn't?
 
Tankdiver
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:07 am

Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:21 pm

A similar incident happened earlier this year between a Sky Lease Cargo B747-400F and a DHL B737BCF at LAX. The Sky Lease Cargo B747F left without one of its winglet and it actually came back a few days later with the winglet still missing.

Image
 
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Strebav8or
Posts: 29
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Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:15 pm

From experience.....when APB began the winglet mods on the 757s, part of the flight test regiment was to remove a winglet, fly the aircraft through its test flight routine and record if there any issues that arose. Once they did one wing, the did it to the other.
 
UPS757Pilot
Posts: 196
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:22 am

Re: Western Global 747 Incident at CAE

Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:23 pm

It’s more than the winglet unfortunately. There’s some wing damage which will have to be repaired first.

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