Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
Boeing757100
Topic Author
Posts: 613
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 10:09 pm

Kenya Airways to end JV ops with AF/KLM

Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:03 pm

Link- https://africa.cgtn.com/2020/12/19/keny ... operation/


I wonder, will this have any effect on DL in Africa? They are keeping LHR, CDG, and AMS for now. They are still partners I think.
Boeing is re-engining the 707 tonight, with Shinkai as the CEO and FLAIRPORT as the CFO. He has the 757 tooling in giant snowglobe that tracks flights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub82Xb1 ... iceboxHero
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 5171
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Kenya Airways to end JV ops with AF/KLM

Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:06 pm

mercure f-wtcc
 
777ER
Head Moderator
Posts: 10134
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to end JV ops with AF/KLM

Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:36 pm

Is it just me or does this sound more likely one airline didn't want the JV anymore and covid19 is simply being used as an excuse to cancel it?

Hopefully it allows both airlines to grow better on the routes
Head Forum Moderator
[email protected]
Flown: 1900D,S340,Q300,AT72-5/6,DC3,CR2/7,E145,E70/75/90,A319/20/21,A332/3,A359,A380,F100,B717,B733/4/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B763,B772/3, B789
With: NZ,SJ,QF,JQ,EK,VA,AA,UA,DL,FL,AC,FJ,SQ,TG,PR
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9437
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to end JV ops with AF/KLM

Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:12 pm

777ER wrote:
Is it just me or does this sound more likely one airline didn't want the JV anymore and covid19 is simply being used as an excuse to cancel it?


This is some really curious spin found in the OP's link:

“This development allows Kenya Airways to offer additional options and convenience to our customers connecting through our European gateways in line with our goal of supporting the recovery of international tourism in Kenya and connecting Africa to the World, and the World to Africa,” Kilavuka said in a statement issued in Nairobi.
...
Kilavuka said these routes (Africa and Europe) will be served by onward codeshares from the Air France-KLM group and additionally with an ever-expanding network of European carriers including Alitalia, British Airways, Lufthansa, and Swiss International Airlines amongst others.


I guess they could just interline to the ever-expanding network of European carriers. They might get some more one-stop destinations, in that BA serves some destinations that AF/KL do not, but interlining doesn't give them the fare control of a JV.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2943
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to end JV ops with AF/KLM

Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:33 pm

mercure1 wrote:


How am I going to know Kenya Airways news if I have to read a AF/KLM mega thread? Things can be mentioned in multiple threads.
 
User avatar
eastafspot
Posts: 1790
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:19 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to end JV ops with AF/KLM

Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:31 pm

Spot on, and it was posted in the East African Aviation thread well before the AF/KL's one tbh :scratchchin:
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
Corpsnerd09
Posts: 631
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:05 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to end JV ops with AF/KLM

Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:55 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:


How am I going to know Kenya Airways news if I have to read a AF/KLM mega thread? Things can be mentioned in multiple threads.


Good point, kinda prejudiced against Kenya Airways to have moved the topic to the AF/KL thread only. It's big news and KQ shouldn't be brushed under the AF/KL rug.
 
LH658
Posts: 1285
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:35 am

Re: Kenya Airways to end JV ops with AF/KLM

Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:50 am

AF KL have a extensive network already in East Africa, and in Africa as a whole.
 
onwFan
Posts: 596
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: Kenya Airways to end JV ops with AF/KLM

Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:00 am

777ER wrote:
Is it just me or does this sound more likely one airline didn't want the JV anymore and covid19 is simply being used as an excuse to cancel it?

Hopefully it allows both airlines to grow better on the routes

You are most certainly right. KQ has been wanting out of this JV for years, arguing that the agreement was skewed, to the benefit of AF/KL. In addition, AF/KL have been blocking KQ from forming any bilateral partnerships with other carriers. The latest was last year when they supposedly restructured the terms (but it appears this wasn't sufficient): https://internationalfinance.com/kenya- ... rance-klm/

COVID-19 was the final push. In either case, as LH658 pointed out above, KL has an extensive East African network, flying not just to NBO, but also to the major destinations in Tanzania (DAR, ZNZ, JRO) & Uganda (EBB) and Rwanda (KGL), which are some of KQ's main feeder destinations; thereby minimizing the role of KQ in the partnership (which I expect was the main reason KQ wanted to back out). Pretty much the same reason AZ wanted out of the JV with AF/KL on European routes.

Given the abandonment of the JV, I doubt that codeshares and tourism alone are sufficient for KQ to survive on NBO-AMS....
 
A330Inter
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:59 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to end JV ops with AF/KLM

Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:48 am

onwFan wrote:
Given the abandonment of the JV, I doubt that codeshares and tourism alone are sufficient for KQ to survive on NBO-AMS....


Maybe the flowers are enough to complement the pax on board?
 
76er
Posts: 707
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:04 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to end JV ops with AF/KLM

Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:05 am

Most flowers are flown on the freighters.
 
MileHFL400
Posts: 849
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:42 am

Re: Kenya Airways to end JV ops with AF/KLM

Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:26 pm

KQ looking for a scapegoat as usual on its pitiful financial performance for the last decade.

First it was the 787 delays, then gulf carriers. Once the JV ends I wonder what they will come up with next.
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5791
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

Re: Kenya Airways to end JV ops with AF/KLM

Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:19 am

onwFan wrote:
777ER wrote:
Is it just me or does this sound more likely one airline didn't want the JV anymore and covid19 is simply being used as an excuse to cancel it?

Hopefully it allows both airlines to grow better on the routes

You are most certainly right. KQ has been wanting out of this JV for years, arguing that the agreement was skewed, to the benefit of AF/KL. In addition, AF/KL have been blocking KQ from forming any bilateral partnerships with other carriers. The latest was last year when they supposedly restructured the terms (but it appears this wasn't sufficient): https://internationalfinance.com/kenya- ... rance-klm/

COVID-19 was the final push. In either case, as LH658 pointed out above, KL has an extensive East African network, flying not just to NBO, but also to the major destinations in Tanzania (DAR, ZNZ, JRO) & Uganda (EBB) and Rwanda (KGL), which are some of KQ's main feeder destinations; thereby minimizing the role of KQ in the partnership (which I expect was the main reason KQ wanted to back out). Pretty much the same reason AZ wanted out of the JV with AF/KL on European routes.

Given the abandonment of the JV, I doubt that codeshares and tourism alone are sufficient for KQ to survive on NBO-AMS....


Correct, KQ has even lost control of the revenue management for their Y cabins, meaning KL can drop their Y seats in any bucket they wish. I have sold millions of dollars in revenue of NW/KL/KQ joint venture, mostly to JRO for Mt Madness in Seattle & their escorted Kilimanjaro programs. But just about everywhere KL/NW flew. The KQ flights operate a traditional African carrier schedule, red-eyes in both directions, but KL operates to NBO at about 10:30am capturing most of the connecting US traffic, but if you did a stop in Amsterdam, then you could use the KQ flights on low fare inventories.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
jfk777
Posts: 7474
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Kenya Airways to end JV ops with AF/KLM

Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:14 pm

How is Kenya Airways 15 hour flight to JFK doing ?
 
User avatar
lesfalls
Posts: 3512
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to end JV ops with AF/KLM

Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:23 pm

onwFan wrote:
777ER wrote:
Is it just me or does this sound more likely one airline didn't want the JV anymore and covid19 is simply being used as an excuse to cancel it?

Hopefully it allows both airlines to grow better on the routes

You are most certainly right. KQ has been wanting out of this JV for years, arguing that the agreement was skewed, to the benefit of AF/KL. In addition, AF/KL have been blocking KQ from forming any bilateral partnerships with other carriers. The latest was last year when they supposedly restructured the terms (but it appears this wasn't sufficient): https://internationalfinance.com/kenya- ... rance-klm/

COVID-19 was the final push. In either case, as LH658 pointed out above, KL has an extensive East African network, flying not just to NBO, but also to the major destinations in Tanzania (DAR, ZNZ, JRO) & Uganda (EBB) and Rwanda (KGL), which are some of KQ's main feeder destinations; thereby minimizing the role of KQ in the partnership (which I expect was the main reason KQ wanted to back out). Pretty much the same reason AZ wanted out of the JV with AF/KL on European routes.

Given the abandonment of the JV, I doubt that codeshares and tourism alone are sufficient for KQ to survive on NBO-AMS....


Didn't AF/KL try to make a JV with AZ again possible? From what I know AF/KL lost a lot of Italian market share, specifically with loss of LIN slots owned by AZ (CDG/AMS both going down from 4x Daily to 1x daily with MXP service started).
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
berari
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to end JV ops with AF/KLM

Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:33 pm

About time for KQ to leave this alliance that KL has had the upper hand/benefit of from day one. Reminds me at times the deal that Icahn had over TWA. To me, KL's "partnership" with KQ was used as a way to advance KLs interests while keeping KQ subdued.

By comparison, ET which went at things alone, joined JVs and agreements with Star partners once it was strong enough.
 
berari
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Kenya Airways to end JV ops with AF/KLM

Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:42 pm

LH658 wrote:
AF KL have a extensive network already in East Africa, and in Africa as a whole.


MileHFL400 wrote:
KQ looking for a scapegoat as usual on its pitiful financial performance for the last decade.

First it was the 787 delays, then gulf carriers. Once the JV ends I wonder what they will come up with next.


Note that KL managed KQ for many years and contributed to the pitiful financial performance. And not only that, it suppressed KQ's abilities while it maintained its share in East Africa. It is challenging to build and maintain a strong standalone African carrier, even more so when your strategic partner is it in primarily for itself.

The 787 delays affected everyone, so do the Gulf carriers in Africa and even in Europe and North America. Unlike the Europeans and Americans that can use their governments to fend off what is deemed unfair competition, African airlines don't have much leverage in that space.

jfk777 wrote:
How is Kenya Airways 15 hour flight to JFK doing ?


They restarted it recently. Will KQ be able to leverage DL feed at JFK, or will DL favour its own JVs with AFKL? I suspect the latter. Maybe we will see KQ get chummy with B6 at JFK, if the route survives at all.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos