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Cointrin330
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China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:07 am

Just finished rewatching The Wedding Banquet (1993) which was filmed on location at the TWA Flight Center, with several scenes prominently featuring the Saarinen Flight Center, including one from across a parking garage where a full complement of TWA L1011s, 767s, and 2 747s are being prepared for their departures. The parents in the film fly China Airlines into JFK, and I remember, as a kid, CAL would use the TWA Terminal for its flights. Does anyone know or recall what the flight schedules were? A 747 (I think a -400) is briefly shown taxiing but looks to be stock footage. Anyway, curious if by 1993, this was a non stop TPE-JFK service or if it went by ANC or another US city (or NRT?) Anyone know? Thanks. The film is wonderful.
 
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sjones1975
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:43 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
where a full complement of TWA L1011s, 767s, and 2 747s are being prepared for their departures.


A screen capture of that would be great to see. Nothing like TWA in those days (1993 may be a bit past its late 80s prime, but it still had a bunch of widebodies back then).
 
trex8
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:13 am

Almost certainly TPE-ANC-JFK. They purchased the A343 to try fly TPE-JFK non stop, didnt work out as well as they hoped.
 
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airpearl
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:39 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
Does anyone know or recall what the flight schedules were? A 747 (I think a -400) is briefly shown taxiing but looks to be stock footage. Anyway, curious if by 1993, this was a non stop TPE-JFK service or if it went by ANC or another US city (or NRT?) Anyone know? Thanks.


The routing was indeed TPE-ANC-JFK, operated by 747-400 as CI012 to JFK, and CI011 on the return to TPE. I flew TPE-ANC-TPE in July 1994. I recall the flights departing TPE in the late afternoon, arriving ANC mid-morning - and JFK probably early evening. The return would depart JFK close to midnight, transit at ANC at 2-3 am, arriving in TPE early morning ahead of the bank of Southeast Asian departures.
 
factsonly
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:00 am

If the stock footage was a little older (from the 1980's) any CAL B747 at JFK could have been the China Airlines B747Combi "TATL-Service", which operated TPE-ANC-JFK-AMS-JFK-ANC-TPE.
 
halrudy
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:59 pm

Back in the 80's didn't CA also fly TPE-SFO-JFK via a 747SP?
 
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eta unknown
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:57 pm

You're thinking of CA Air China and they did fly JFK-SFO-PEK/SHA with the SP and the 747 combi about twice a week.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:32 pm

factsonly wrote:
If the stock footage was a little older (from the 1980's) any CAL B747 at JFK could have been the China Airlines B747Combi "TATL-Service", which operated TPE-ANC-JFK-AMS-JFK-ANC-TPE.


I can’t say I was aware CI had 747 Combis.
 
trex8
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:08 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
factsonly wrote:
If the stock footage was a little older (from the 1980's) any CAL B747 at JFK could have been the China Airlines B747Combi "TATL-Service", which operated TPE-ANC-JFK-AMS-JFK-ANC-TPE.


I can’t say I was aware CI had 747 Combis.

CI never operated a 747 Combi
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:33 am

trex8 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
factsonly wrote:
If the stock footage was a little older (from the 1980's) any CAL B747 at JFK could have been the China Airlines B747Combi "TATL-Service", which operated TPE-ANC-JFK-AMS-JFK-ANC-TPE.


I can’t say I was aware CI had 747 Combis.

CI never operated a 747 Combi


Is he confusing CI with CA who did have combis, and the flight originated in PEK not TPE?
 
raylee67
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:39 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
trex8 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

I can’t say I was aware CI had 747 Combis.

CI never operated a 747 Combi


Is he confusing CI with CA who did have combis, and the flight originated in PEK not TPE?


I don't think CA ever flown JFK-AMS though.

And CI never did trans-Atlantic flights too.
 
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Tabito
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:00 am

CI (China Airlines) operated TPE-ANC-JFK-AMS as CI11/12 from 1984 to 1988.
http://aerospoace.blogspot.com/2013/08/
 
Cointrin330
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Fri Dec 25, 2020 1:04 pm

raylee67 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
trex8 wrote:
CI never operated a 747 Combi


Is he confusing CI with CA who did have combis, and the flight originated in PEK not TPE?


I don't think CA ever flown JFK-AMS though.

And CI never did trans-Atlantic flights too.


China Airlines most certainly did operate JFK-AMS for a time, in the 1980s.
 
787X30
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:28 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
raylee67 wrote:

[...]

And CI never did trans-Atlantic flights too.


China Airlines most certainly did operate JFK-AMS for a time, in the 1980s.

Wasn't aware, but have it here:

---4--- 2345-1235+ CI012 74M JFK-AMS
----5-- 1700-1905 CI011 74M AMS-JFK

-----6- 2110-1015+ CI061 74L TPE-DXB-AMS
------7 1245-1350+ CI062 74L AMS-DXB-TPE

KLM 1984/85 timetable, explicitly prints 74M, fwiw.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ams-jfk-an ... 84&SU=mach
 
trex8
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:18 am

787X30 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
raylee67 wrote:

[...]

And CI never did trans-Atlantic flights too.


China Airlines most certainly did operate JFK-AMS for a time, in the 1980s.

Wasn't aware, but have it here:

---4--- 2345-1235+ CI012 74M JFK-AMS
----5-- 1700-1905 CI011 74M AMS-JFK

-----6- 2110-1015+ CI061 74L TPE-DXB-AMS
------7 1245-1350+ CI062 74L AMS-DXB-TPE

KLM 1984/85 timetable, explicitly prints 74M, fwiw.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ams-jfk-an ... 84&SU=mach


Was the 74M flight a CI/KLM codeshare?
I am very confident CI never operated a Combi. Was it KLM metal?
 
787X30
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:19 am

trex8 wrote:
Was the 74M flight a CI/KLM codeshare?
I am very confident CI never operated a Combi. Was it KLM metal?

Very unlikely. First, look at the times. Second, KL op'ed two r/ts KL889/881 AMS-VIE-DXB-BKK-TPE-vv 880/882 marked 74M, too. (The late flight from JFK was KL644 dep 2105 #.)

But what about B-1864 of 1978?
 
factsonly
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:25 am

787X30 wrote:
trex8 wrote:
Was the 74M flight a CI/KLM codeshare?
I am very confident CI never operated a Combi. Was it KLM metal?

Very unlikely. First, look at the times. Second, KL op'ed two r/ts KL889/881 AMS-VIE-DXB-BKK-TPE-vv 880/882 marked 74M, too. (The late flight from JFK was KL644 dep 2105 #.)

But what about B-1864 of 1978?


As indicated by the picture of B-1864 above, China Airlines did operate its own B747Combi aircraft 1x/weekly TPE-ANC-JFK-AMS v.v. for several years in the mid-1980's.
The route was launched shortly after CI opened its first 1x/weekly B74L route to Europe TPE-DXB-AMS, following the bilateral air agreement NL-Taiwan.

The initial KLM B747 service AMS-TPE was in fact sold as a Martinair Holland service (used an MP flight number), in order not to upset mainland China.
Later KLM set up KLM Asia to meet mainland China requirements.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:57 am

787X30 wrote:
trex8 wrote:
Was the 74M flight a CI/KLM codeshare?
I am very confident CI never operated a Combi. Was it KLM metal?

Very unlikely. First, look at the times. Second, KL op'ed two r/ts KL889/881 AMS-VIE-DXB-BKK-TPE-vv 880/882 marked 74M, too. (The late flight from JFK was KL644 dep 2105 #.)

But what about B-1864 of 1978?


Curious about this aircraft, it doesn’t appear on air fleets or plane spotters that I can see. Was it the only Combi CI had?
 
B-HOP
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:18 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
787X30 wrote:
trex8 wrote:
Was the 74M flight a CI/KLM codeshare?
I am very confident CI never operated a Combi. Was it KLM metal?

Very unlikely. First, look at the times. Second, KL op'ed two r/ts KL889/881 AMS-VIE-DXB-BKK-TPE-vv 880/882 marked 74M, too. (The late flight from JFK was KL644 dep 2105 #.)

But what about B-1864 of 1978?


Curious about this aircraft, it doesn’t appear on air fleets or plane spotters that I can see. Was it the only Combi CI had?


It is, in fact this one was a standalone order that didn't (along with the crashed B-18255) take advantage of Wing 5 that could take the aircraft above 800,000lb MTOW, this one's MTOW is 775,000 or 780,000lb according to JP airline-fleet, it also only has the less powerful JT9D-7AW (same as B-18255) and not the JT9D-7Q with 833,000lnb MTOW its younger sister has. It was converted in 1992, maybe to replaced crashed B-198 bought from Cargolux. In 2002, with deliveries of more 744F, it retired just before the crash of B-18255, with lower MTOW and less powerful engine, it went for scrap. CI's 742F are jinxed, they crashed 2 (B-198/B-18255) and another two with Kalitta six months apart (N714CK/N704CK, sistership in CI ), only B-KAD (to Dragonair) B-18771 and N715CK made into retirement

Kev
 
787X30
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:40 am

factsonly wrote:
The initial KLM B747 service AMS-TPE was in fact sold as a Martinair Holland service (used an MP flight number), in order not to upset mainland China.
Later KLM set up KLM Asia to meet mainland China requirements.

That presentation as a MP contract service seems to have been rather ceremonial, as it was advertised (not ticketed?) with KL-flight nos. & op'ed w KL equipment (stickered?), 74M, then 74D.

KLM Asia wasn't estd till 1995, around when KLM must have started svc to PEK.
 
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aal151heavy
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:15 am

I dug into my China Airlines timetable collection. Here are the relevant pages from the July 1, 1985 issue. The TPE-DXB-AMS-JFK-ANC-TPE flights were advertised as "Round the World Flight".

TPE-DXB-AMS (CI 061/062) was flown using 74L - or 747SP
TPE-ANC-JFK-AMS (CI 011/012) was flown using 74D - or 747 Combi

CAL TT 7-1-1985 0-1200edited.jpg

CAL TT 7-1-1985 1-1200edited.jpg

CAL TT 7-1-1985 2-1200edited.jpg


The forum attachment doesn't seem to be working. I have posted the images to my Flickr: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmTgcyKR
 
787X30
Posts: 117
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Re: China Airlines (CAL) at JFK, 1992-1993

Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:20 am

aal151heavy wrote:
I dug into my China Airlines timetable collection. [...] I have posted the images to my Flickr: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmTgcyKR

Thanks! :spin:

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