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vedatil4
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Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:18 am

Volaris recently secured the IATA code TJX to be used for Tijuana airport in addition to TIJ. It already appears on their website as an option. The stated goal is making transfers to San Diego (and California, USA) using the existing CBX bridge easier.

Also, the TIJ airport administrator, GAP, is currently constructing some kind of "in-transit" international terminal there right now. A few months ago it was at steel framing stage.

The only other example I find of a single airport with multiple IATA codes is Basel-Mulhouse-Freiburg Airport with BSL, MLH, and EAP. But are there more?

I imagine luggage with TJX tags could be separated from those with TIJ tags to not have Mexico immigration & customs (I&C) screening once the in-transit building is finished. Is that what happens at Basel-Mulhouse-Freiburg Airport? I imagine if you arrive there and the tag and plane ticket shows MLH (France) you don't have to pass through Swiss I&C. Or, if they show BSL (Switzerland), you don't have to go through French I&C.

I'm thinking this new TJX code could be used for future inbound international flights. The majority of those people will be heading to the United States but landing in Mexico a few hundred meters south of the border. When there used to be Volaris flights from Guatemala, it was silly for the the vast majority of those passengers to have to pass through Mexico I&C just to be in the country the few minutes needed to walk to the United States.

Can someone fill me in on IATA codes, operations at Basel-Mulhouse-Freiburg, or the long range plans at Tijuana airport? It sure seems like Volaris, GAP, and CBX are making baby steps towards setting up a similar airport but with the USA and Mexico instead of France and Switzerland.
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:49 am

The Phoenix-Mesa airport has both AZA and IWA.
 
ScottB
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:52 am

vedatil4 wrote:
I'm thinking this new TJX code could be used for future inbound international flights. The majority of those people will be heading to the United States but landing in Mexico a few hundred meters south of the border. When there used to be Volaris flights from Guatemala, it was silly for the the vast majority of those passengers to have to pass through Mexico I&C just to be in the country the few minutes needed to walk to the United States.


I doubt the IATA code really matters much at all unless U.S. Customs & Border Protection intends to require all passengers arriving TIJ and using the CBX facility to use the TJX code -- and also to require the airlines to transmit data for those passengers prior to departure just as they do for international flights to the U.S. Apparently some airlines do offer different prices depending on whether one books to EAP, BSL, or MLH, so that might also be a possibility.

I flew into BSL several years back; it was a Schengen flight so there weren't any immigration checks; you just had to choose which side of the airport (Swiss or French) to exit from baggage claim.
 
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B727skyguy
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:15 am

According to IATA, TJX is not currently assigned.
(source: https://www.iata.org/en/publications/di ... search=tjx)


HNLSLCPDX wrote:
The Phoenix-Mesa airport has both AZA and IWA.

IATA shows the code IWA assigned to Ivanovo, Russia
(source: https://www.iata.org/en/publications/di ... search=iwa)
 
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Aquila3
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:52 am

My experience in BSL is that immigration from from EU or CH not being an issue being both Schengen Countries.
Customs is very friendly, nothing to do with what you get entiering USA.
It is enough you choose the right exit to EU or CH and you are good to go. Nobody looked ever to the tags. I have even took the wrong one a couple of times and the officer just let me pass back to the other side..
It is just a long hallway with a kind of gate in the middle.
As a side note, the tricky thing is the car rental. If you book a car BSL you will have to drive out to CH and you will have to cross then the Highway Customs if you want to go to EU and vice versa.If you have declarable items in your luggage that can be an issue and I had some unfriendly experience from the Customs officers.
Some rentals have a separate office on both sides of the airport. I mean some 100 m away, the airport is tiny. But take care where you book because they cannot move cars from one side to the other. Also your rental car probably won't be insured for both sides unless you pay some hefty fee.
 
Toinou
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:05 am

vedatil4 wrote:
When there used to be Volaris flights from Guatemala, it was silly for the the vast majority of those passengers to have to pass through Mexico I&C just to be in the country the few minutes needed to walk to the United States.

You say "silly", which is the right word to describe international transit arrangements in most US airports. I hope a solution has been found.

As a side note, I wonder if such a solution could have been found if the situation was inverted (ie an airport in the US with a direct exit to Mexico). I tend to think the answer would be "no", reflecting asymmetrical conceptions.

As other pointed out, the situation in BSL changed from the moment Switzerland joined Shengen Agreement. So now, it's mostly a practical matter choosing which side you exit (I guess there's even a pedestrian connection landside). Before that, it could be very important as you may not have the visa to enter both countries (to give you another example, some people got into trouble traveling on night trains between EU countries but crossing Switzerland: they had no idea about that (as no stop was indicated in Switzerland in the middle of the night) but they technically entered Switzerland without a visa (an also got back in EU which could be a problem if they were on a single entry visa)).

Aquila3 wrote:
Some rentals have a separate office on both sides of the airport. I mean some 100 m away, the airport is tiny. But take care where you book because they cannot move cars from one side to the other. Also your rental car probably won't be insured for both sides unless you pay some hefty fee.

That could be an issue but most (major) rental companies allow travel between western European countries (including Switzerland) with a standard rental contract. In an area where you can cross borders every hour of travel and without control, it's almost compulsory.
 
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c933103
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:54 am

Toinou wrote:
As a side note, I wonder if such a solution could have been found if the situation was inverted (ie an airport in the US with a direct exit to Mexico). I tend to think the answer would be "no", reflecting asymmetrical conceptions.

I don't think you can make such claim simply by thinking, as it is essentially a land border facility that just happens to lead into the airport
 
SwissCanuck
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:55 am

Toinou wrote:

Aquila3 wrote:
Some rentals have a separate office on both sides of the airport. I mean some 100 m away, the airport is tiny. But take care where you book because they cannot move cars from one side to the other. Also your rental car probably won't be insured for both sides unless you pay some hefty fee.

That could be an issue but most (major) rental companies allow travel between western European countries (including Switzerland) with a standard rental contract. In an area where you can cross borders every hour of travel and without control, it's almost compulsory.


GVA has rentals on both sides as it operates in a very similar way to the EuroAirport, but only uses GVA code.

The rental situation is more complicated for us locals. I, as a Swiss resident, cannot drive a French-plated car in Switzerland for insurance reasons. The inverse is also true. Its something to do with being outside the EU and CH/EU law not allowing the French-based rental company to seize the car if I decide to hide it in my garage, if I understand things correctly (I may not).

I do, however, know the restiction to be true as my Annecy-based friend and I called his insurance company to check together (he wanted to lend me his car while he was out of the country). They told him in no uncertain terms that his insurance contract would be invalidated permanently the moment I put the car in gear in CH territory. No 2 weeks with a TT for me!
 
ELBOB
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:37 am

ScottB wrote:
I doubt the IATA code really matters much at all unless U.S. Customs & Border Protection intends to require all passengers arriving TIJ and using the CBX facility to use the TJX code -- and also to require the airlines to transmit data for those passengers prior to departure just as they do for international flights to the U.S.


Indeed, APIS Manifest uses ICAO code not IATA so I don't think it'd make a difference to CBP.

Very little real commerce uses IATA codes because they just don't cover enough of the World's airports and aerodromes. It's mainly an internal airline system, plus for some reason unaccountably popular on this forum.
 
wirkey
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:10 am

Frankfurt had two codes: FRA and FRF for the Rhein-Main Airbase. Cou can argue those were two airports sharing the runways, though
 
vahancrazy
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:44 am

ELBOB wrote:
ScottB wrote:
I doubt the IATA code really matters much at all unless U.S. Customs & Border Protection intends to require all passengers arriving TIJ and using the CBX facility to use the TJX code -- and also to require the airlines to transmit data for those passengers prior to departure just as they do for international flights to the U.S.


Indeed, APIS Manifest uses ICAO code not IATA so I don't think it'd make a difference to CBP.

Very little real commerce uses IATA codes because they just don't cover enough of the World's airports and aerodromes. It's mainly an internal airline system, plus for some reason unaccountably popular on this forum.



I think IATA is more use around the globe because it is the one visible for travellers and easy to remember. ICAO code has no easy connection with the airport main town or the airport name.
For example NRT Vs RJAA, JNB Vs FAOR, MXP Vs LIMC, etc.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:22 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
....
Can someone fill me in on IATA codes, operations at Basel-Mulhouse-Freiburg, or the long range plans at Tijuana airport? It sure seems like Volaris, GAP, and CBX are making baby steps towards setting up a similar airport but with the USA and Mexico instead of France and Switzerland.

Before Switzerland joined Schengen agreement, operations at BSL/MLH were indeed an enlightening experience. From passenger point of view, when you arrived (like I did from CDG), after picking up your luggage at the belt, there was signage, and also arrows on the floor, instructing you what to do. You walked straight down the corridor, and then there were arrows turning right -- for those headed to Switzerland. I had to continue walking straight.
Then you were in Schengen arrival area, and from then there were three arrows in sight: a right turn took you to Germany, a left turn took you into a small pocket labelled "arriving to France, but not cleared by French border control and customs", and walking straight you got into French arrival hall.
On departure, there were funny situations like a same cafe' had a counter, split with border. Customers on one side of the border had menu in Euros (presumably with French taxes), customers on the other side paid in Swiss francs with Swiss taxes.

I was told (but never saw that) about flights that actually were pushed back from gates in one zone, and then reconnected to a gate in the other zone. OAG listed a two to five minutes difference in departure times between BSL and MLH, for the same flight, for such flight numbers. I could speculate it was a way for EU-based airlines to operate more freely -- in BSL, they were subject to a bilateral with Switzerland. Once reconnected to a MLH gate, they were departing on intra-EU itinerary, and had more flexibility. Switzerland was protective of its airlines, particularly when Swissair and Crossair were actually still there, to protect.

GVA is apparently somewhat of a mirror arrangement -- it's a fully Swiss airport, with option of exiting to/entering from France. Before Schengen, those headed to France, had it in their reservations. I understand there was a separate luggage belt for these pax, in French appendix.

(aside curiosity: Basel Main Rail station (Basel SBB) had historically a French annex, with a sterile platform. I remember seeing "Gare SNCF" signage there. Of course, there is separate German rail station in Basel -- Basel Badische Bahnhof; concession was signed before country "Germany" was a thing, so the station name is reflecting the name of the country "Baden", that was granted this concession).

An interesting arrangement exists in Batumi, Georgia. I don't know if it involves different airport codes. Batumi is nearly a border city, with Turkish town of Hopa a few minutes away. But you can book flights from Istanbul to Batumi (Hopa), and those tickets include bus transfer across the border. I've read an account of a guy who did it -- and funnily enough, Turkish Airlines quoted him a lower price to "Batumi (Hopa)" vs. just Batumi. Maybe some sort of "domestic connectivity" subsidy in Turkey or some such thing. I'm not sure about customs/border control thing -- as you could construct a "fully domestic" itinerary -- if a pax is whisked to a "sterile" bus right from the "sterile" part of the airport, and driven back into Turkey without stopping -- in theory at least. Whether that actually happens is something folks need to check themselves.
 
MO11
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:17 pm

B727skyguy wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
The Phoenix-Mesa airport has both AZA and IWA.

IATA shows the code IWA assigned to Ivanovo, Russia
(source: https://www.iata.org/en/publications/di ... search=iwa)



Which is why the IATA code for Gateway is AZA. The FAA LID is IWA.
 
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c933103
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:55 pm

ELBOB wrote:
ScottB wrote:
I doubt the IATA code really matters much at all unless U.S. Customs & Border Protection intends to require all passengers arriving TIJ and using the CBX facility to use the TJX code -- and also to require the airlines to transmit data for those passengers prior to departure just as they do for international flights to the U.S.


Indeed, APIS Manifest uses ICAO code not IATA so I don't think it'd make a difference to CBP.

Very little real commerce uses IATA codes because they just don't cover enough of the World's airports and aerodromes. It's mainly an internal airline system, plus for some reason unaccountably popular on this forum.

I think the listing of a new IATA code make it possible for the US to list the facility directly under US for any passengers searching for flights to San Diego
 
vedatil4
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:29 pm

c933103 wrote:
ELBOB wrote:
ScottB wrote:
I doubt the IATA code really matters much at all unless U.S. Customs & Border Protection intends to require all passengers arriving TIJ and using the CBX facility to use the TJX code -- and also to require the airlines to transmit data for those passengers prior to departure just as they do for international flights to the U.S.


Indeed, APIS Manifest uses ICAO code not IATA so I don't think it'd make a difference to CBP.

Very little real commerce uses IATA codes because they just don't cover enough of the World's airports and aerodromes. It's mainly an internal airline system, plus for some reason unaccountably popular on this forum.

I think the listing of a new IATA code make it possible for the US to list the facility directly under US for any passengers searching for flights to San Diego


In a separate thread, under the opinions section, I brought up the possibility of future almost cabotage at TIJ. Volaris is all about VFR flights now, but what's to stop them from setting up a, for example, TJX-JFK flight marketed to people on the US side side of the border once this in-transit building is completed?
 
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Coronado990
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:30 pm

The big question is will the flights listed as TJX be in enilria's OAG summary every Tuesday?
 
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c933103
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:36 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
ELBOB wrote:

Indeed, APIS Manifest uses ICAO code not IATA so I don't think it'd make a difference to CBP.

Very little real commerce uses IATA codes because they just don't cover enough of the World's airports and aerodromes. It's mainly an internal airline system, plus for some reason unaccountably popular on this forum.

I think the listing of a new IATA code make it possible for the US to list the facility directly under US for any passengers searching for flights to San Diego


In a separate thread, under the opinions section, I brought up the possibility of future almost cabotage at TIJ. Volaris is all about VFR flights now, but what's to stop them from setting up a, for example, TJX-JFK flight marketed to people on the US side side of the border once this in-transit building is completed?

IIRC the US also regulare and forbid any foreign airlines selling US to US journey, even if the plabe wasn't flying US to US, unless otherwise exempted.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:42 pm

vahancrazy wrote:
ELBOB wrote:
ScottB wrote:
I doubt the IATA code really matters much at all unless U.S. Customs & Border Protection intends to require all passengers arriving TIJ and using the CBX facility to use the TJX code -- and also to require the airlines to transmit data for those passengers prior to departure just as they do for international flights to the U.S.


Indeed, APIS Manifest uses ICAO code not IATA so I don't think it'd make a difference to CBP.

Very little real commerce uses IATA codes because they just don't cover enough of the World's airports and aerodromes. It's mainly an internal airline system, plus for some reason unaccountably popular on this forum.



I think IATA is more use around the globe because it is the one visible for travellers and easy to remember. ICAO code has no easy connection with the airport main town or the airport name.
For example NRT Vs RJAA, JNB Vs FAOR, MXP Vs LIMC, etc.


But, aviation everywhere uses the ICAO codes, IATA codes are airline only. Military, GA, ATC, Governments all use the ICAO.
 
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Polot
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:43 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
ELBOB wrote:

Indeed, APIS Manifest uses ICAO code not IATA so I don't think it'd make a difference to CBP.

Very little real commerce uses IATA codes because they just don't cover enough of the World's airports and aerodromes. It's mainly an internal airline system, plus for some reason unaccountably popular on this forum.

I think the listing of a new IATA code make it possible for the US to list the facility directly under US for any passengers searching for flights to San Diego


In a separate thread, under the opinions section, I brought up the possibility of future almost cabotage at TIJ. Volaris is all about VFR flights now, but what's to stop them from setting up a, for example, TJX-JFK flight marketed to people on the US side side of the border once this in-transit building is completed?

It would still be an international flight. Foreign airlines are not allowed to sell domestic trips, no matter if there is even a foreign stop. AC for example can’t sell LAX-YYZ-JFK, and DL can’t sell YYZ-MSP-YVR.

In addition the in-transit facility is just so connecting passengers don’t have to go through Mexican immigration. There is no way that the airline can guarantee that only people who haven’t “left” the US are on board. As soon as you mingle with people who are not cleared to be in the US yet you are no longer clean and need to clear customs/immigration. Remember as soon as you enter an in-transit facility, no matter where in the world, you have technically left the country and are in kind of a grey “no mans land”. The US is just unique in that unlike most countries there are no passport control to leave, so it is easier to build an experience that feels like you haven’t left the country. But technically and legally you have.

The primary purpose of the in transit facility will be to make TIJ more attractive to area Americans for flights to other countries (excluding the US, so Canada, Costa Rica, Asia, etc) and not just for Mexican flights. Right now most will just go to SAN for that as TIJ is really only useful if flying to points in Mexico. For American domestic flights SAN will still be the preferred airport in the region.
Last edited by Polot on Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
LucaDiMontanari
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:01 pm

Aquila3 wrote:
My experience in BSL is that immigration from from EU or CH not being an issue being both Schengen Countries.
Customs is very friendly, nothing to do with what you get entiering USA.


Worth to note here, that while Switzerland is a Schengen country, it doesn't entered european custom union. That is why there are custom controls on the way out to the Swiss side (while you can easily circumnavigate them in leaving airside on the french side and then, instead of leaving the building, go upstairs to the departure level, where is no more custom control installed between the two countries...)

ScottB wrote:
Apparently some airlines do offer different prices depending on whether one books to EAP, BSL, or MLH, so that might also be a possibility.


This. It is mainly a thing for Air France, since a flight departing from MLH to a french destination would count as french domestic, which is differently (lower I guess) taxed, than an "international" flight from BSL. No luck for EasyJet here since EasyJet Switzerland operates almost all flights and they have no rights to go french domestic.

vahancrazy wrote:
ELBOB wrote:
ScottB wrote:
I doubt the IATA code really matters much at all unless U.S. Customs & Border Protection intends to require all passengers arriving TIJ and using the CBX facility to use the TJX code -- and also to require the airlines to transmit data for those passengers prior to departure just as they do for international flights to the U.S.


Indeed, APIS Manifest uses ICAO code not IATA so I don't think it'd make a difference to CBP.

Very little real commerce uses IATA codes because they just don't cover enough of the World's airports and aerodromes. It's mainly an internal airline system, plus for some reason unaccountably popular on this forum.


I think IATA is more use around the globe because it is the one visible for travellers and easy to remember. ICAO code has no easy connection with the airport main town or the airport name.
For example NRT Vs RJAA, JNB Vs FAOR, MXP Vs LIMC, etc.


IATA is more used by Average Joe, since this is what the most people came in contact with. It is indeed an airline ticketing thing. ICAO is an aviators thing, not a passengers and I guess we can agree that there are much more passengers out there than pilots? And of course no one uses IATA codes for "unaccountable popularity" but rather of pure laziness :lol:

Phosphorus wrote:
I was told (but never saw that) about flights that actually were pushed back from gates in one zone, and then reconnected to a gate in the other zone. OAG listed a two to five minutes difference in departure times between BSL and MLH, for the same flight, for such flight numbers. I could speculate it was a way for EU-based airlines to operate more freely -- in BSL, they were subject to a bilateral with Switzerland. Once reconnected to a MLH gate, they were departing on intra-EU itinerary, and had more flexibility. Switzerland was protective of its airlines, particularly when Swissair and Crossair were actually still there, to protect.


I was on such a flight once, albeit inbound. They in fact didn't even move the plane a single milimeter... as far as I remember it was mostly a ticketing issue, so AF could fly these flights as MLH-PAR to get it taxed as a domestic flight (see above), but still be able to sell tickets to Swiss customers, since these rarely came up with the idea to search flights from MLH ("we are Swiss, why should we fly from France?" :banghead: )

Phosphorus wrote:
(aside curiosity: Basel Main Rail station (Basel SBB) had historically a French annex, with a sterile platform. I remember seeing "Gare SNCF" signage there. Of course, there is separate German rail station in Basel -- Basel Badische Bahnhof; concession was signed before country "Germany" was a thing, so the station name is reflecting the name of the country "Baden", that was granted this concession).


The french annex at Basel SBB still exists, albeit no longer sterile but for technical reasons (different electrical system of the trains). The border control facilities were still intact (unstaffed of course) for a long time and still were, when I was there the last time. I guess they removed it during the recent refurbishment.

Regarding the Badischer Bahnhof: a few years ago I worked in Basel close to that station and in the evening it was a often a decision of minutes whether I took the tramway trough the city or the S-Bahn from Badischer Bahnhof to get to the main station. After a few weeks I became aware that I was technically in Germany when I did the latter but never had neither an ID nor a passport with me... :lol:
 
Aliqiout
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:16 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
vahancrazy wrote:
ELBOB wrote:

Indeed, APIS Manifest uses ICAO code not IATA so I don't think it'd make a difference to CBP.

Very little real commerce uses IATA codes because they just don't cover enough of the World's airports and aerodromes. It's mainly an internal airline system, plus for some reason unaccountably popular on this forum.



I think IATA is more use around the globe because it is the one visible for travellers and easy to remember. ICAO code has no easy connection with the airport main town or the airport name.
For example NRT Vs RJAA, JNB Vs FAOR, MXP Vs LIMC, etc.


But, aviation everywhere uses the ICAO codes, IATA codes are airline only. Military, GA, ATC, Governments all use the ICAO.

This forum is overwhelmingly concerned with commercial passenger traffic. Tickets can be purchased and searched with IATA codes, bording passes usualy have them, baggage tags use them. Why would we want to spend time learning a second set of codes, that has extra letter, that we would only use on this site?
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:36 pm

Because the aviation standard is ICAO and pilots use them. The airline standard is IATA and passengers, gate agents and some internal processes use them. I’m pretty much use both, but since flying required ICAO codes, lean that way.
 
SwissCanuck
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:21 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
....


(aside curiosity: Basel Main Rail station (Basel SBB) had historically a French annex, with a sterile platform. I remember seeing "Gare SNCF" signage there. Of course, there is separate German rail station in Basel -- Basel Badische Bahnhof; concession was signed before country "Germany" was a thing, so the station name is reflecting the name of the country "Baden", that was granted this concession).



Geneva Cornavin (main) station has both CH and FR customs before you arrive on the FR platforms. So if you take the TGV to Paris you don't have to clear on the other end (they never make another stop in CH, the border is a couple km down the track).

I'm sure its the same at Basel as well. If not you must clear in FR. People are confusing immgration/schengen with customs. There is still a customs border, and it is still heavily enforced.
 
vahancrazy
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:25 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Because the aviation standard is ICAO and pilots use them. The airline standard is IATA and passengers, gate agents and some internal processes use them. I’m pretty much use both, but since flying required ICAO codes, lean that way.


Pilots and professionals use ICAO but professionals and pilots are not the majority. Whereas, we are all passengers, thus, we all have a chance to read IATA codes during every flight or when booking a flight ticket. For Average Joe user experience (front-end), airports have 3 letters. ICAO is the professional tool behind the scenes (back-end).

I appreciate your commitment to encourage ICAO utilisation, however, I am not a professional but an enthusiast. Thus, if you tell me an ICAO code I will most likely not know it (I can recall a few only), nevertheless I will appreciate if you use it and I will try to learn it.
However, If I book a flight, I can only use IATA and if I speak with someone non-enthusiast, I need to use a language he/she will understand and can relate to his/her travel experience.
 
Toinou
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:30 pm

SwissCanuck wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
....


(aside curiosity: Basel Main Rail station (Basel SBB) had historically a French annex, with a sterile platform. I remember seeing "Gare SNCF" signage there. Of course, there is separate German rail station in Basel -- Basel Badische Bahnhof; concession was signed before country "Germany" was a thing, so the station name is reflecting the name of the country "Baden", that was granted this concession).



Geneva Cornavin (main) station has both CH and FR customs before you arrive on the FR platforms. So if you take the TGV to Paris you don't have to clear on the other end (they never make another stop in CH, the border is a couple km down the track).

I'm sure its the same at Basel as well. If not you must clear in FR. People are confusing immgration/schengen with customs. There is still a customs border, and it is still heavily enforced.

Interestingly, some Swiss local trains (not crossing any border) arrive on "French" tracks and passengers are told to have ID documents as they can be controlled. I think they must sometime have some complicate explanations.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:31 pm

:white:

TJX is simply a new marketing moniker for the Cross Border Express.

Passengers who use the TJX code no longer have to purchase seperate CBX crossing ticket. Its meant to facilitate and differentiate US origin/bound passengers versus simply domestic TIJ passengers.


Image
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:56 pm

LucaDiMontanari wrote:
....

Regarding the Badischer Bahnhof: a few years ago I worked in Basel close to that station and in the evening it was a often a decision of minutes whether I took the tramway trough the city or the S-Bahn from Badischer Bahnhof to get to the main station. After a few weeks I became aware that I was technically in Germany when I did the latter but never had neither an ID nor a passport with me... :lol:


My first Badische Bahnhof and ID story dates from before Switzerland was in Schengen (So two separate visas for me -- Schengen and Swiss). I was in Basel, and stayed in a hotel not far from Badische Bahnhof. Next stage of the journey was to Germany, and train ticket was from Badische Bahnhof. I actually went to the station a day before to check it out -- and realized that passport control is not manned, and customs folks (German customs only) feign ignorance on their passport control colleagues whereabouts. The only advice they had was to come early. I did spot, however, a tainted glass door to the left of the line of (empty) passport check booths, with official signage of Swiss confederation.
On the day, I did finish business with time to spare, and arrived early (1 hour in advance or more). Not even customs folks in sight at that time. After considerable amount of knocking at that door, the door opened (10 mm crack), and I was requested to explain what I want. I've shown my passport, explained that I have a train to Germany to catch. They told me to be on my merry way. I opened my visa page, and asked them -- what would they do to me, if I show up to them again, arriving, with a visa with an entry stamp, and without exit stamp. Wouldn't they suspect me of "overstaying"? That sealed the deal. The guy (without ever showing his face) told me "give it here". I passed the passport through the crack, he took it, closed and locked the door and went away. Minutes went by, until I've heard a safe door open. Sounded like it weighed a ton. More minutes went by, and then a sound of stamp being applied. More minutes, and a safe door closed (thump was loud, and I thought the floor shook. Probably a vault door, rather than a safe door). Yet more minutes, then the door opens (small crack again) and my passport appears. I grab it (a few minutes only to my train, so I'm getting impatient), check the stamp (it's there, with "Basel Badische Bahnhof" displayed), thank the guy and ask him, where do I get the German stamp. He says "no idea, but at the far end of platform number-so-and-so (I don't remember anymore; definitely not the platform where my train was departing from), Germans have a service dog kennel. Someone is always there. Ask them". I realize that heeding that advice would mean missing my train, so I just walk to the platform, and board the train with basically a couple of minutes to departure left.
And yeah, if at a later date, an overzealous German border person (we get them sometimes) would challenge me on the missing entry stamp -- Swiss exit stamp was a proof good enough on date and location of the border crossing (it's not like there is anywhere else to go). Unavailability of German border personnel is obviously not something a humble traveler has under control; so that part was covered.
 
vedatil4
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:47 pm

LAXintl wrote:
:white:

TJX is simply a new marketing moniker for the Cross Border Express.

Passengers who use the TJX code no longer have to purchase seperate CBX crossing ticket. Its meant to facilitate and differentiate US origin/bound passengers versus simply domestic TIJ passengers.


Image


According to the press release I had found that brought up this subject, it was an IATA code given to Volaris for Tijuana airport. This is in Spanish: https://a21.com.mx/aerolineas/2020/12/2 ... odigo-iata

Volaris even used IATA's logo on facebook according to this press release (again in Spanish): https://a21.com.mx/aerolineas/2020/11/2 ... en-tijuana

They had already been selling CBX tickets as part of their TIJ plane tickets for years. What was to be gained by obtaining the TJX code? I'm trying to read the tea leaves. ;-)

BTW: Another one of GAP's stated goals is to offer TIJ as an alternative to LAX. They advertise shuttle services to several cities in southern California https://www.crossborderxpress.com/en/services The other day I saw a bus with their logo on the freeway headed to all the way to Sacramento.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:01 pm

I believe Amsterdam Schiphol has AMS and SPL. I´m not sure if the railway station has another code.
 
alasizon
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:04 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
:white:

TJX is simply a new marketing moniker for the Cross Border Express.

Passengers who use the TJX code no longer have to purchase seperate CBX crossing ticket. Its meant to facilitate and differentiate US origin/bound passengers versus simply domestic TIJ passengers.


Image


According to the press release I had found that brought up this subject, it was an IATA code given to Volaris for Tijuana airport. This is in Spanish: https://a21.com.mx/aerolineas/2020/12/2 ... odigo-iata

Volaris even used IATA's logo on facebook according to this press release (again in Spanish): https://a21.com.mx/aerolineas/2020/11/2 ... en-tijuana

They had already been selling CBX tickets as part of their TIJ plane tickets for years. What was to be gained by obtaining the TJX code? I'm trying to read the tea leaves. ;-)

BTW: Another one of GAP's stated goals is to offer TIJ as an alternative to LAX. They advertise shuttle services to several cities in southern California https://www.crossborderxpress.com/en/services The other day I saw a bus with their logo on the freeway headed to all the way to Sacramento.


Likely a flight to TJX includes a bundled CBX ticket automatically in their system and is just another way for bundling to occur.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:04 pm

vedatil4 wrote:
They had already been selling CBX tickets as part of their TIJ plane tickets for years. What was to be gained by obtaining the TJX code? I'm trying to read the tea leaves. ;-)


Pretty simple, can program GDS and res systems to adjust the pricing to include CBX cost and taxes.
Could not do that with TIJ as it's not clear who is a domestic passenger, and who intends to utilize CBX to cross unless the passenger volunteers the info.
 
vedatil4
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:09 pm

ELBOB wrote:
ScottB wrote:
I doubt the IATA code really matters much at all unless U.S. Customs & Border Protection intends to require all passengers arriving TIJ and using the CBX facility to use the TJX code -- and also to require the airlines to transmit data for those passengers prior to departure just as they do for international flights to the U.S.


Indeed, APIS Manifest uses ICAO code not IATA so I don't think it'd make a difference to CBP.

Very little real commerce uses IATA codes because they just don't cover enough of the World's airports and aerodromes. It's mainly an internal airline system, plus for some reason unaccountably popular on this forum.


Just to clarify, northbound passengers with TJX tickets from Volaris or passengers with TIJ tickets from other airlines who paid an extra fee for using the CBX bridge will still be inspected by USA I&C. I believe the TJX designation will only matter to Mexico I&C. They'll be "in-transit" while inside Mexico as they walk a few hundred meters to the USA. There won't be any kind of USA CBP pre-screening at TIJ airport (for now).
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:23 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
The Phoenix-Mesa airport has both AZA and IWA.


And Scottsdale Airport has both SDL and SCF. (ICAO/IATA)
 
vedatil4
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:49 pm

Here's a 4-D rendering of the new "in-transit" building already halfway constructed at Tijuana airport: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWw3dB9xvnc

I think arriving international passengers with TJX tickets and luggage bags will have a way to bypass Mexico I&C and head straight to USA I&C when walking to or from the international gates located on the east side of hall B through an "in-transit" area.

Pause the video and focus on signage at around the 50second mark for northbound passengers and the 1min 58sec mark for southbound passengers . I think it's at those points passengers get to choose to officially enter or not enter Mexico.
 
Maverick623
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:37 pm

Airlines these days aren't overly concerned with IATA codes outside of complex international arrangements like BSL/MLH/EAP (pre-Schengen, anyways) and now TIJ/TJX, as well as air-to-rail and rail-to-air itineraries.

The most prominent example is Phoenix-Mesa Gateway, the sole IATA code is AZA, but AFAIK every airline uses the FAA code IWA (although only G4 has flights there right now, IWA is used by other airlines that have it as a diversion point).
 
BBDFlyer
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:02 pm

Hickam AFB uses HIK (IATA and FAA LID) and PHIK (ICAO), whereas Honolulu uses HNL (IATA and FAA LID) and PHNL (ICAO). Both facilities share runways.
 
bluecrew
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:13 am

vedatil4 wrote:
Here's a 4-D rendering of the new "in-transit" building already halfway constructed at Tijuana airport: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWw3dB9xvnc

I think arriving international passengers with TJX tickets and luggage bags will have a way to bypass Mexico I&C and head straight to USA I&C when walking to or from the international gates located on the east side of hall B through an "in-transit" area.

Pause the video and focus on signage at around the 50second mark for northbound passengers and the 1min 58sec mark for southbound passengers . I think it's at those points passengers get to choose to officially enter or not enter Mexico.

One would think they have a legal obligation to process these items, baggage and cargo included, when entering the country one way or another without a specific treaty and process permitting this.
If you have some sort of "customs bypass" thing it would get really complicated in terms of jurisdiction for violations of the law, smuggling, etc.

For example if someone flies from TYO to TIJ with a suitcase of cocaine, but it's "TJX" and getting send straight to US CBP, it falls under US law? But it never entered the United States... but the intent was there? It's set up for many many legal challenges.

Smart way to do it is the Mexican officials still have control over their immigration and customs policies...
 
ATLFlyer1234
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:23 pm

bluecrew wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
One would think they have a legal obligation to process these items, baggage and cargo included, when entering the country one way or another without a specific treaty and process permitting this.
If you have some sort of "customs bypass" thing it would get really complicated in terms of jurisdiction for violations of the law, smuggling, etc.

For example if someone flies from TYO to TIJ with a suitcase of cocaine, but it's "TJX" and getting send straight to US CBP, it falls under US law? But it never entered the United States... but the intent was there? It's set up for many many legal challenges.

Smart way to do it is the Mexican officials still have control over their immigration and customs policies...

It doesn't get sent straight there - watch the video. A passenger presents themself to CBP with their belongings, and if there's cocaine in the bag, CBP will take it from there. If they take the other path to MX customs, then it will be handled there. This arrangement already exists for international to transborder connections in Canada and is nothing new - there is an option to bypass Canadian immigration and go straight to CBP, and they'll work through the similar details with MX.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:08 pm

MO11 wrote:
B727skyguy wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
The Phoenix-Mesa airport has both AZA and IWA.

IATA shows the code IWA assigned to Ivanovo, Russia
(source: https://www.iata.org/en/publications/di ... search=iwa)



Which is why the IATA code for Gateway is AZA. The FAA LID is IWA.

It’s common for the faa code not to Match the iata. ALMOST Every airport in Alaska and Hawaii don’t match
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:01 pm

32andBelow wrote:
MO11 wrote:
B727skyguy wrote:

IATA shows the code IWA assigned to Ivanovo, Russia
(source: https://www.iata.org/en/publications/di ... search=iwa)



Which is why the IATA code for Gateway is AZA. The FAA LID is IWA.

It’s common for the faa code not to Match the iata. ALMOST Every airport in Alaska and Hawaii don’t match


Beg to differ on Alaska,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... _in_Alaska

Somewhat true in HI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... _in_Hawaii
 
MO11
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:28 pm

I believe he confused ICAO code witn FAA LID.

But we're getting off track here, since the original topic addressed the same piece of pavement having two IATA codes.
 
Lesquin
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:07 pm

Flanders International Airport or Wevelgem-Kortrijk Airport in the west of Belgium seems to have two three-letter codes, KJK and QKT. If anyone out there can explain why, I'd be interested to know. I'm based just down the road (and over the border into France) in Lille.
 
vedatil4
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:51 am

ATLFlyer1234 wrote:
bluecrew wrote:
vedatil4 wrote:
One would think they have a legal obligation to process these items, baggage and cargo included, when entering the country one way or another without a specific treaty and process permitting this.
If you have some sort of "customs bypass" thing it would get really complicated in terms of jurisdiction for violations of the law, smuggling, etc.

For example if someone flies from TYO to TIJ with a suitcase of cocaine, but it's "TJX" and getting send straight to US CBP, it falls under US law? But it never entered the United States... but the intent was there? It's set up for many many legal challenges.

Smart way to do it is the Mexican officials still have control over their immigration and customs policies...

It doesn't get sent straight there - watch the video. A passenger presents themself to CBP with their belongings, and if there's cocaine in the bag, CBP will take it from there. If they take the other path to MX customs, then it will be handled there. This arrangement already exists for international to transborder connections in Canada and is nothing new - there is an option to bypass Canadian immigration and go straight to CBP, and they'll work through the similar details with MX.


When you say Canada, do you mean Toronto airport? Before covid, it seemed like AirCanada was pushing US to Europe flights connecting there.

What was not made 100% clear to me back then is if this transfer happens without spending time passing through Canada immigration and customs. In a way similar to the the TJX "in-transit" building, I would only be in Canada the few hours to catch a connecting flight to Europe.

Maybe GAP is also trying to copy that set-up ? The 4-D rendering seems to show a waiting area for TJX "in-transit" passengers. This could be used, in theory, for someone arriving from, let's say, China connecting to a flight to, let's say, Costa Rica, without officially entering Mexico or the USA. Lots of possible flight combinations could happen.

One of the big selling points of TIJ for international flights from Asia (AFAIK) is how passengers could avoid needing a USA visa when heading to Central or South America just because they connected at LAX (or another airport in the USA). [someone please clarify this for me]
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:36 pm

No double IATA code, but there are a few with double ICAO codes.

I'm talking about Western Sahara, which is disputed territory claimed by Morocco. There are three airports in Western Sahara, but only two of them see regular airline service.

Dakhla (VIL) has ICAO codes GSVO and GMMH. GSVO is the Western Saharan code and GMMH is the Moroccan code.
El Aaiún (EUN) has ICAO codes GSAI and GMML. GSAI is the Western Saharan code and GMML is the Moroccan code.
Smara (SMW) has ICAO codes GMSA and GMMA. GMSA is the Western Saharan code and GMMA is the Moroccan code.

Out of those, only Dakhla and El Aaiún see regular service. Smara is not served by any airline.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:49 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
No double IATA code, but there are a few with double ICAO codes.

I'm talking about Western Sahara, which is disputed territory claimed by Morocco. There are three airports in Western Sahara, but only two of them see regular airline service.

Dakhla (VIL) has ICAO codes GSVO and GMMH. GSVO is the Western Saharan code and GMMH is the Moroccan code.
El Aaiún (EUN) has ICAO codes GSAI and GMML. GSAI is the Western Saharan code and GMML is the Moroccan code.
Smara (SMW) has ICAO codes GMSA and GMMA. GMSA is the Western Saharan code and GMMA is the Moroccan code.

Out of those, only Dakhla and El Aaiún see regular service. Smara is not served by any airline.


Ukraine has some of those. For example, SIP (Simferopol) is UKFF. After Russian invasion in 2014, Russians stamped URFF code to it.
 
CMHARJ
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:13 pm

What's the story behind State College, PA? I've always known the airport code to be SCE. However, probably within the last year, the airport is now considered to be in University Park, PA with the airport code of UNV. What's the official airport code for State College/University Park, PA? SCE or UNV?
 
SLCLAXKIXKHH
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:01 am

I noticed that Kalispell, Montana uses both FCA and GPI.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Airport with two IATA codes assigned (TIJ and TJX)

Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:53 am

CMHARJ wrote:
What's the story behind State College, PA? I've always known the airport code to be SCE. However, probably within the last year, the airport is now considered to be in University Park, PA with the airport code of UNV. What's the official airport code for State College/University Park, PA? SCE or UNV?


It’s KUNV (ICAO, FAA LOCID) and SCE (IATA).

Kalispell is KGPI (ICAO, FAA LOCID) and FCA (IATA).

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