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slvrblt
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Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 4:21 pm

Doing some idle internet surfing this morning, went over to Flight Aware and was surprised to see Delta right at the top of the cancellations and delays. They're up to 125 cancellations and nearly 100 delays. Looked at the other guys, United with 30 cancelled and 40 delays, American's got 1 cancel and 44 delayed. I wonder if Delta is having another crew-scheduling meltdown -? Just like over Thanksgiving, I would have thought they would have trimmed back their flying to match what they can crew. I guess not.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 4:30 pm

There was an article yesterday in the news about it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2 ... utType=amp

“Due to the downsizing of the airline and trying to manage the size of the workforce … there’s been some training issues that’s been created from moving pilots from airplane to airplane and getting them retrained,” Riggins says. “It’s basically a problem of trying to get the pilots to the right place at the right time.”


“After shrinking through voluntary leaves, buyouts and early retirements this summer and fall due to COVID-19, Delta has far fewer pilots than it did this time last year,”
 
slvrblt
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 4:36 pm

Thanks, just read the WP article. Looks like it started with the weather in MSP yesterday, then pilot scheduling made things worse. Should have trimmed their schedule, though, cancelling people's holiday travel isn't good.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:02 pm

I've seen lots of off-the-cuff cancellations (one of the four STL-ATL today, EGE-ATL yesterday). Also some delays, probably crewing related. For example, the 6am and 8am AUS-ATL today were delayed each to 10am...a day before they left. Considering the reduced Christmas schedule, this has caused some problems. For example, I looked on twitter and saw someone flying AUS-ATL-GTR, missing the Golden Triangle connection because Austin was delayed. Normally they'd have a second flight to GTR in the afternoon, but because of the reduced Christmas Day schedule they only had one.
 
Detroit313
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:20 pm

Mess. Thanksgiving meltdown. Now Christmas meltdown.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:45 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Mess. Thanksgiving meltdown. Now Christmas meltdown.

It doesn't seem to be as big as Thanksgiving, but it's still an abnormally high number of cxls. They need to get this staffing thing figured out and fast.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:05 pm

Absolutely dumb to retrain all these guys and then after Covid have to retrain them back. And retrain all your furlough guys. Are you really saving more than just keeping more pilots employed?
 
B757Forever
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:55 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Absolutely dumb to retrain all these guys and then after Covid have to retrain them back. And retrain all your furlough guys. Are you really saving more than just keeping more pilots employed?


The 777 fleet retirement set off a huge backwards progression that rippled across every fleet as pilots were bumped down to smaller equipment. Once training catches up things will normalize.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:56 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Absolutely dumb to retrain all these guys and then after Covid have to retrain them back. And retrain all your furlough guys. Are you really saving more than just keeping more pilots employed?

They didn’t furlough any pilots. And the parking/retiring of planes, those fleet types aren’t there for senior pilots to go back too
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:15 pm

B757Forever wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Absolutely dumb to retrain all these guys and then after Covid have to retrain them back. And retrain all your furlough guys. Are you really saving more than just keeping more pilots employed?


The 777 fleet retirement set off a huge backwards progression that rippled across every fleet as pilots were bumped down to smaller equipment. Once training catches up things will normalize.

That is my opinion too. The issue is when. I suspect many months of ripple ahead.

Lightsaber
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:21 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Mess. Thanksgiving meltdown. Now Christmas meltdown.

Northeast weather, training bottlenecks, lower staffing, and let us not forget the usual Christmas call outs. Scheduling Department has likely been a nightmare for the last three days, and I am sure that they are severely short staffed as well.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:25 pm

lightsaber wrote:
B757Forever wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Absolutely dumb to retrain all these guys and then after Covid have to retrain them back. And retrain all your furlough guys. Are you really saving more than just keeping more pilots employed?


The 777 fleet retirement set off a huge backwards progression that rippled across every fleet as pilots were bumped down to smaller equipment. Once training catches up things will normalize.

That is my opinion too. The issue is when. I suspect many months of ripple ahead.

Lightsaber

They only had 18 777s. The smallest pilot group, they parked 189 MD80/88/90 family, that’s where most of the displacements came from. Besides the other fleet types 717, 757s, 767s etc. have been reduced.
 
Flflyer83
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:47 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Mess. Thanksgiving meltdown. Now Christmas meltdown.

Northeast weather, training bottlenecks, lower staffing, and let us not forget the usual Christmas call outs. Scheduling Department has likely been a nightmare for the last three days, and I am sure that they are severely short staffed as well.


Yet none of these issues, nor the combination of the, are unique to Delta.
 
alasizon
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:54 pm

As I recall during the Thanksgiving thread some of the DL fanboys were touting that come December 1st this issue would be better/resolved as the furloughed - then un-furloughed pilots would all be flying again since the ALPA agreement restricted them to not being able to work again till December 1st.

What I don't understand is that DL knew exactly how many pilots it physically could re-train in time for the December holiday period - how does one intentionally schedule above that without being labeled as irresponsible?
 
Thomaas
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:06 pm

There is very little reason for DL to be short-staffed when they haven't furloughed any pilots and you have qualified ones sitting at home getting paid. Displacements or not, there should be plenty of crew and aircraft to go around given the drastically reduced frequencies over last year. Re-training or not, DL only retired the 777s and MDs, so they should still have the staffing for pre-covid operations for the rest of the fleet. Hopefully this leads to tough questions for management during the investors presentation as it seems to be the only airline struggling with staffing in Covid times.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:18 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Mess. Thanksgiving meltdown. Now Christmas meltdown.

Northeast weather, training bottlenecks, lower staffing, and let us not forget the usual Christmas call outs. Scheduling Department has likely been a nightmare for the last three days, and I am sure that they are severely short staffed as well.


Yet none of these issues, nor the combination of the, are unique to Delta.


A large concentration of Northeast crew bases, especially NYC and BOS got clobbered. I imagine DL is deadheading crews all over the place, but just couldn’t make it work. Add in displaced crew commuting to new bases from the Northeast just saying to hell with it, and calling off when the commuter deadhead cancels. Positive space commuting doesn’t matter if it gets canceled, or delayed past your report time. At some point, you just have to cut your losses, run what you KNOW you have crew for, cancel the rest, and rebuild for the next day.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:22 pm

Thomaas wrote:
There is very little reason for DL to be short-staffed when they haven't furloughed any pilots and you have qualified ones sitting at home getting paid. Displacements or not, there should be plenty of crew and aircraft to go around given the drastically reduced frequencies over last year. Re-training or not, DL only retired the 777s and MDs, so they should still have the staffing for pre-covid operations for the rest of the fleet. Hopefully this leads to tough questions for management during the investors presentation as it seems to be the only airline struggling with staffing in Covid times.

Don’t discount the weather, and the now majority senior pilots with flex days, sick days, etc, to call off with. Add to that, with the Northeast draw down, crews commuting from bases to other cities. These are not normal times, displacements cause ripples that run far beyond just training bottlenecks.

Station staffing is bare bones as well, causing even more ripples at peak.
 
ScorpioMC3
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:29 pm

Thomaas wrote:
There is very little reason for DL to be short-staffed when they haven't furloughed any pilots and you have qualified ones sitting at home getting paid. Displacements or not, there should be plenty of crew and aircraft to go around given the drastically reduced frequencies over last year. Re-training or not, DL only retired the 777s and MDs, so they should still have the staffing for pre-covid operations for the rest of the fleet. Hopefully this leads to tough questions for management during the investors presentation as it seems to be the only airline struggling with staffing in Covid times.



The other issue with pilots sitting at home getting paid is that they lapse in currency, then they can't touch a flight deck until they go back to a one or two day requalification training. Scheduling them into that when you have a massive amount of displacement system-wide is a nightmare.
 
catiii
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:38 pm

Lets see if they blame this one on a “COVID outbreak” like they did on Thanksgiving.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:41 pm

My Delta flight was 2 hours late yesterday. Pilot said something about MSP and a Blizzard? Hope they get it back together soon.
 
CaptainLeo
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:59 pm

There were delays on the 737 fleet this morning after an update didn't go through correctly last night. Couple that in with the pilot shortage and normal crew call outs, it's a mess. They are begging FAs to come back from vacation and pick up trips. Going to be a rough week with more cancellations to come.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:53 pm

I haven't heard the same buzz that I did over Thanksgiving and there was the MSP blizzard and northeast major wind event to consider. I agree if they over sold the schedule for something they never could operate that would be pretty terrible. They had a terrible thanksgiving and that seems like a shame on them
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:03 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I haven't heard the same buzz that I did over Thanksgiving and there was the MSP blizzard and northeast major wind event to consider. I agree if they over sold the schedule for something they never could operate that would be pretty terrible. They had a terrible thanksgiving and that seems like a shame on them

The turbulence was severe yesterday, from the Northeast to the Midwest. Even the most seasoned pilots can only take that for so long until they start puking on the deck. I imagine the fatigue call offs were as much a part of this as anything else. It is never just one thing, it takes a lot to screw up an airline like Delta.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:08 am

CaptainLeo wrote:
There were delays on the 737 fleet this morning after an update didn't go through correctly last night. Couple that in with the pilot shortage and normal crew call outs, it's a mess. They are begging FAs to come back from vacation and pick up trips. Going to be a rough week with more cancellations to come.

An update?

If your talking Avionics that has to be done by maintenance, DL doesn’t have maintenance at every station.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:09 am

My friend’s DL LGA-MCO was delayed several or more hours this morning.
 
catiii
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:37 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I haven't heard the same buzz that I did over Thanksgiving and there was the MSP blizzard and northeast major wind event to consider. I agree if they over sold the schedule for something they never could operate that would be pretty terrible. They had a terrible thanksgiving and that seems like a shame on them

The turbulence was severe yesterday, from the Northeast to the Midwest. Even the most seasoned pilots can only take that for so long until they start puking on the deck. I imagine the fatigue call offs were as much a part of this as anything else. It is never just one thing, it takes a lot to screw up an airline like Delta.


I flew two turns yesterday out of JFK. The turbulence was not “severe.” It was barely sporty on the approach. And pilots generally aren’t “puking on the deck.”

Spoken like a non-pilot.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:48 am

How did AA, UA, WN etc fair? I’m seeing few, if any, cancellations.
 
Antarius
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:08 am

TVNWZ wrote:
How did AA, UA, WN etc fair? I’m seeing few, if any, cancellations.


No issues.
 
Yakflyer
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:22 am

TVNWZ wrote:
How did AA, UA, WN etc fair? I’m seeing few, if any, cancellations.


The biggest difference between DL & UA is the no furlough agreement UA made with it's pilots keeps them in the seats they were in when the pandemic began. UA has had some small amount of reshuffling because of specific types (mostly 777 and 787) not being flown in specific cities, but for the most part they haven't had the wholesale musical chairs DL is dealing with. At UA everyone is expected to keep current but there are no repercussions if a pilot needs to go to the sim to stay current and slips out of currency because of a lack of sim availability. There is some initial training going on because of the voluntary early retirement of senior pilots but that is mostly just upward which is much easier to manage than the movement resulting from whole fleets being retired at DL. During the pandemic nobody has adjusted the makeup of their fleets anywhere near as much as Delta. That still does not mean there shouldn't be some repercussions for the failure of providing the service they promised when they booked those flights.
 
Corpsnerd09
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:23 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I haven't heard the same buzz that I did over Thanksgiving and there was the MSP blizzard and northeast major wind event to consider. I agree if they over sold the schedule for something they never could operate that would be pretty terrible. They had a terrible thanksgiving and that seems like a shame on them

The turbulence was severe yesterday, from the Northeast to the Midwest. Even the most seasoned pilots can only take that for so long until they start puking on the deck. I imagine the fatigue call offs were as much a part of this as anything else. It is never just one thing, it takes a lot to screw up an airline like Delta.


Uh, no...

Unless DL hires pilots with weak stomachs versus the other majors... But there was also no such horrible turbulence, minor and at times choppy sure, there was a storm, but not the dramatic way you've put it. It also doesn't seem to be affecting the other airlines, particularly since all 3 major competitors have Chicago hubs and would be flying a ton of NE to Midwest routings.

Where do you guys get this stuff from?
 
Detroit313
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:28 am

American Airlines cancelled only 1 flight yesterday. How can they run such a smooth operation while DL can't? Covid cannot be used an excuse... Sorry...
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:58 am

Detroit313 wrote:
American Airlines cancelled only 1 flight yesterday. How can they run such a smooth operation while DL can't? Covid cannot be used an excuse... Sorry...


I agree. American also retired four fleet types (E-190s, 757s, 767s, A330s) and has been running a larger schedule but has not had any of the upheaval DL has.
Do better Delta management.
 
alasizon
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:13 am

Detroit313 wrote:
Covid cannot be used an excuse... Sorry...


Nor can MSP's weather yesterday. MSP was the least effected of the midwest and eastern hubs.
 
Antarius
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:28 am

Yakflyer wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
How did AA, UA, WN etc fair? I’m seeing few, if any, cancellations.


The biggest difference between DL & UA is the no furlough agreement UA made with it's pilots keeps them in the seats they were in when the pandemic began. UA has had some small amount of reshuffling because of specific types (mostly 777 and 787) not being flown in specific cities, but for the most part they haven't had the wholesale musical chairs DL is dealing with. At UA everyone is expected to keep current but there are no repercussions if a pilot needs to go to the sim to stay current and slips out of currency because of a lack of sim availability. There is some initial training going on because of the voluntary early retirement of senior pilots but that is mostly just upward which is much easier to manage than the movement resulting from whole fleets being retired at DL. During the pandemic nobody has adjusted the makeup of their fleets anywhere near as much as Delta. That still does not mean there shouldn't be some repercussions for the failure of providing the service they promised when they booked those flights.


AA retired the a330, 767, 757, CR2 and E190.
 
Tack
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:22 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I haven't heard the same buzz that I did over Thanksgiving and there was the MSP blizzard and northeast major wind event to consider. I agree if they over sold the schedule for something they never could operate that would be pretty terrible. They had a terrible thanksgiving and that seems like a shame on them

The turbulence was severe yesterday, from the Northeast to the Midwest. Even the most seasoned pilots can only take that for so long until they start puking on the deck. I imagine the fatigue call offs were as much a part of this as anything else. It is never just one thing, it takes a lot to screw up an airline like Delta.



Huh? And yet they’ve now screwed up during both holidays, 1 month apart. Pretty sure this is more than just “puking pilots” ( which is a new one on me, btw). At the end of the day, DL is just another, unimpressive major, that messes up passengers trips just like the other two. Priceless.
Last edited by Tack on Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
gaystudpilot
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:35 am

catiii wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I haven't heard the same buzz that I did over Thanksgiving and there was the MSP blizzard and northeast major wind event to consider. I agree if they over sold the schedule for something they never could operate that would be pretty terrible. They had a terrible thanksgiving and that seems like a shame on them

The turbulence was severe yesterday, from the Northeast to the Midwest. Even the most seasoned pilots can only take that for so long until they start puking on the deck. I imagine the fatigue call offs were as much a part of this as anything else. It is never just one thing, it takes a lot to screw up an airline like Delta.


I flew two turns yesterday out of JFK. The turbulence was not “severe.” It was barely sporty on the approach. And pilots generally aren’t “puking on the deck.”

Spoken like a non-pilot.


I’ve never “puked on the deck.”

That was a bunch of crazy talk.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:52 am

usflyer msp wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
American Airlines cancelled only 1 flight yesterday. How can they run such a smooth operation while DL can't? Covid cannot be used an excuse... Sorry...


I agree. American also retired four fleet types (E-190s, 757s, 767s, A330s) and has been running a larger schedule but has not had any of the upheaval DL has.
Do better Delta management.

20 190s, 34 767s, 24 757s, and 24 330s. Compared to 193 MD80/88/90, 18 777, 35 319/20/21s 29 717s, 14 330s, 16 737s, 55 757/67s and 7 220s.

Big difference
 
Boof02671
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:55 am

Antarius wrote:
Yakflyer wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
How did AA, UA, WN etc fair? I’m seeing few, if any, cancellations.


The biggest difference between DL & UA is the no furlough agreement UA made with it's pilots keeps them in the seats they were in when the pandemic began. UA has had some small amount of reshuffling because of specific types (mostly 777 and 787) not being flown in specific cities, but for the most part they haven't had the wholesale musical chairs DL is dealing with. At UA everyone is expected to keep current but there are no repercussions if a pilot needs to go to the sim to stay current and slips out of currency because of a lack of sim availability. There is some initial training going on because of the voluntary early retirement of senior pilots but that is mostly just upward which is much easier to manage than the movement resulting from whole fleets being retired at DL. During the pandemic nobody has adjusted the makeup of their fleets anywhere near as much as Delta. That still does not mean there shouldn't be some repercussions for the failure of providing the service they promised when they booked those flights.


AA retired the a330, 767, 757, CR2 and E190.

CR2 are not mainline they retired 19 flown by PSA
 
Thomaas
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:40 am

Boof02671 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
American Airlines cancelled only 1 flight yesterday. How can they run such a smooth operation while DL can't? Covid cannot be used an excuse... Sorry...


I agree. American also retired four fleet types (E-190s, 757s, 767s, A330s) and has been running a larger schedule but has not had any of the upheaval DL has.
Do better Delta management.

20 190s, 34 767s, 24 757s, and 24 330s. Compared to 193 MD80/88/90, 18 777, 35 319/20/21s 29 717s, 14 330s, 16 737s, 55 757/67s and 7 220s.

Big difference


No one forced DL to retire airplanes, and in fact they still have lots of slack in the fleet for the current schedule. The fact that they still employ the same number of pilots with all these retirements makes it even more shocking that staffing would ever be an issue during covid times. You don't see similar issues at AA or UA, which only leads me to conclude there are major management failures at DL.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:47 am

Boof02671 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
American Airlines cancelled only 1 flight yesterday. How can they run such a smooth operation while DL can't? Covid cannot be used an excuse... Sorry...


I agree. American also retired four fleet types (E-190s, 757s, 767s, A330s) and has been running a larger schedule but has not had any of the upheaval DL has.
Do better Delta management.

20 190s, 34 767s, 24 757s, and 24 330s. Compared to 193 MD80/88/90, 18 777, 35 319/20/21s 29 717s, 14 330s, 16 737s, 55 757/67s and 7 220s.

Big difference


DL has in no way retired that many aircraft this year.
They have retired around 175 frames. It is not that big of a difference when you consider the MD-80/90 fleet (73 frames) was scheduled to be retired this year anyway.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:43 am

Thomaas wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

I agree. American also retired four fleet types (E-190s, 757s, 767s, A330s) and has been running a larger schedule but has not had any of the upheaval DL has.
Do better Delta management.

20 190s, 34 767s, 24 757s, and 24 330s. Compared to 193 MD80/88/90, 18 777, 35 319/20/21s 29 717s, 14 330s, 16 737s, 55 757/67s and 7 220s.

Big difference


No one forced DL to retire airplanes, and in fact they still have lots of slack in the fleet for the current schedule. The fact that they still employ the same number of pilots with all these retirements makes it even more shocking that staffing would ever be an issue during covid times. You don't see similar issues at AA or UA, which only leads me to conclude there are major management failures at DL.

No one forced them? Are you kidding? Flying is down between 60%-80%. You don’t fly empty planes if you do it’s a great way to go bankrupt
 
Boof02671
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:45 am

usflyer msp wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

I agree. American also retired four fleet types (E-190s, 757s, 767s, A330s) and has been running a larger schedule but has not had any of the upheaval DL has.
Do better Delta management.

20 190s, 34 767s, 24 757s, and 24 330s. Compared to 193 MD80/88/90, 18 777, 35 319/20/21s 29 717s, 14 330s, 16 737s, 55 757/67s and 7 220s.

Big difference


DL has in no way retired that many aircraft this year.
They have retired around 175 frames. It is not that big of a difference when you consider the MD-80/90 fleet (73 frames) was scheduled to be retired this year anyway.

Oh yes they have.
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Del ... 0Lines.htm


https://simpleflying.com/delta-2020-200 ... ments/amp/


Delta Air Lines has a plan to retire at least 383 aircraft by 2025. More than 200 of these are expected to exit the airline’s fleet in 2020 alone. With these retirements, Delta will move to a more streamlined fleet.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 1709
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:01 am

gaystudpilot wrote:
catiii wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
The turbulence was severe yesterday, from the Northeast to the Midwest. Even the most seasoned pilots can only take that for so long until they start puking on the deck. I imagine the fatigue call offs were as much a part of this as anything else. It is never just one thing, it takes a lot to screw up an airline like Delta.


I flew two turns yesterday out of JFK. The turbulence was not “severe.” It was barely sporty on the approach. And pilots generally aren’t “puking on the deck.”

Spoken like a non-pilot.


I’ve never “puked on the deck.”

That was a bunch of crazy talk.


Spend a week taking calls in scheduling during storm season, then say that again.
 
diverted
Posts: 1304
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 3:17 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:50 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
gaystudpilot wrote:
catiii wrote:

I flew two turns yesterday out of JFK. The turbulence was not “severe.” It was barely sporty on the approach. And pilots generally aren’t “puking on the deck.”

Spoken like a non-pilot.


I’ve never “puked on the deck.”

That was a bunch of crazy talk.


Spend a week taking calls in scheduling during storm season, then say that again.


Can confirm.
Some highlights include "I just got home to all my stuff on the lawn, I need to book off"
"My ex wife took off with the kids and I don't know where they are, I need to book off"
"My car battery was dead, so I tried hooking up the cables, and there was sparks and I don't know what to do, I need to book off"
"It's snowing I don't know if the roads will be ok later tonight when we get back from this turn, so I'll book off"
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:43 pm

Thomaas wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

I agree. American also retired four fleet types (E-190s, 757s, 767s, A330s) and has been running a larger schedule but has not had any of the upheaval DL has.
Do better Delta management.

20 190s, 34 767s, 24 757s, and 24 330s. Compared to 193 MD80/88/90, 18 777, 35 319/20/21s 29 717s, 14 330s, 16 737s, 55 757/67s and 7 220s.

Big difference


No one forced DL to retire airplanes, and in fact they still have lots of slack in the fleet for the current schedule. The fact that they still employ the same number of pilots with all these retirements makes it even more shocking that staffing would ever be an issue during covid times. You don't see similar issues at AA or UA, which only leads me to conclude there are major management failures at DL.


I think the operational meltdown DL experienced over Christmas was attributable to weather. A fast moving, powerful storm dumped snow in MSP and moved East, and with it, brought heavy rain and high winds, which impacted many NE airports where Delta has a big footprint. ATL was also impacted. To me, it's not a DL, UA, AA thing. Each of them have had operational meltdowns across their post-merger history at one time or another. Some have been caused by weather, others by tech issues. None are immune. I recall in 2011 (before the merger) AA had something like 30-40 damaged aircraft at DFW due to a hail storm. If this would be a normal year, it would be more newsworthy, but in the current environment, people shouldn't be getting on planes anyway and those that do outside of the real need to be with family (not because you miss them, but because this may be your last chance to see them), is really not doing anyone any favors, so if they're sleeping on airport floors on Christmas day, let them eat cake.
 
Corpsnerd09
Posts: 634
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:05 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:49 pm

Antarius wrote:
Yakflyer wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
How did AA, UA, WN etc fair? I’m seeing few, if any, cancellations.


The biggest difference between DL & UA is the no furlough agreement UA made with it's pilots keeps them in the seats they were in when the pandemic began. UA has had some small amount of reshuffling because of specific types (mostly 777 and 787) not being flown in specific cities, but for the most part they haven't had the wholesale musical chairs DL is dealing with. At UA everyone is expected to keep current but there are no repercussions if a pilot needs to go to the sim to stay current and slips out of currency because of a lack of sim availability. There is some initial training going on because of the voluntary early retirement of senior pilots but that is mostly just upward which is much easier to manage than the movement resulting from whole fleets being retired at DL. During the pandemic nobody has adjusted the makeup of their fleets anywhere near as much as Delta. That still does not mean there shouldn't be some repercussions for the failure of providing the service they promised when they booked those flights.


AA retired the a330, 767, 757, CR2 and E190.


AA also outright furloughed staff, DL just had them take "voluntary" leaves. They're all still employed.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4330
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:09 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
20 190s, 34 767s, 24 757s, and 24 330s. Compared to 193 MD80/88/90, 18 777, 35 319/20/21s 29 717s, 14 330s, 16 737s, 55 757/67s and 7 220s.

Big difference


No one forced DL to retire airplanes, and in fact they still have lots of slack in the fleet for the current schedule. The fact that they still employ the same number of pilots with all these retirements makes it even more shocking that staffing would ever be an issue during covid times. You don't see similar issues at AA or UA, which only leads me to conclude there are major management failures at DL.


I think the operational meltdown DL experienced over Christmas was attributable to weather. A fast moving, powerful storm dumped snow in MSP and moved East, and with it, brought heavy rain and high winds, which impacted many NE airports where Delta has a big footprint. ATL was also impacted. To me, it's not a DL, UA, AA thing. Each of them have had operational meltdowns across their post-merger history at one time or another. Some have been caused by weather, others by tech issues. None are immune. I recall in 2011 (before the merger) AA had something like 30-40 damaged aircraft at DFW due to a hail storm. If this would be a normal year, it would be more newsworthy, but in the current environment, people shouldn't be getting on planes anyway and those that do outside of the real need to be with family (not because you miss them, but because this may be your last chance to see them), is really not doing anyone any favors, so if they're sleeping on airport floors on Christmas day, let them eat cake.


It wasn't weather related. AA and UA also have extensive ops in the NE and Midwest, Delta is not special in this regard.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2686
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:18 pm

Corpsnerd09 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Yakflyer wrote:

The biggest difference between DL & UA is the no furlough agreement UA made with it's pilots keeps them in the seats they were in when the pandemic began. UA has had some small amount of reshuffling because of specific types (mostly 777 and 787) not being flown in specific cities, but for the most part they haven't had the wholesale musical chairs DL is dealing with. At UA everyone is expected to keep current but there are no repercussions if a pilot needs to go to the sim to stay current and slips out of currency because of a lack of sim availability. There is some initial training going on because of the voluntary early retirement of senior pilots but that is mostly just upward which is much easier to manage than the movement resulting from whole fleets being retired at DL. During the pandemic nobody has adjusted the makeup of their fleets anywhere near as much as Delta. That still does not mean there shouldn't be some repercussions for the failure of providing the service they promised when they booked those flights.


AA retired the a330, 767, 757, CR2 and E190.


AA also outright furloughed staff, DL just had them take "voluntary" leaves. They're all still employed.

AA has plenty of staff who took VLOAs, not just furloughs. Also some took retirements and buyouts.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4330
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:30 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
20 190s, 34 767s, 24 757s, and 24 330s. Compared to 193 MD80/88/90, 18 777, 35 319/20/21s 29 717s, 14 330s, 16 737s, 55 757/67s and 7 220s.

Big difference


DL has in no way retired that many aircraft this year.
They have retired around 175 frames. It is not that big of a difference when you consider the MD-80/90 fleet (73 frames) was scheduled to be retired this year anyway.

Oh yes they have.
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Del ... 0Lines.htm


https://simpleflying.com/delta-2020-200 ... ments/amp/


Delta Air Lines has a plan to retire at least 383 aircraft by 2025. More than 200 of these are expected to exit the airline’s fleet in 2020 alone. With these retirements, Delta will move to a more streamlined fleet.


Parked does not equal retired. For example, DL has not retired any A220's, some are parked because they don't have pilots trained to fly them.

Since 1/1 Delta has retired:
73 Md-88/90
10 73G
18 777
7 763

If you assume the parked 763er, 717 and 320 fleets are not coming back, that adds:
29 763er
29 717
16 320s

For a total of 182 frames.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2686
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:32 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

DL has in no way retired that many aircraft this year.
They have retired around 175 frames. It is not that big of a difference when you consider the MD-80/90 fleet (73 frames) was scheduled to be retired this year anyway.

Oh yes they have.
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Del ... 0Lines.htm


https://simpleflying.com/delta-2020-200 ... ments/amp/


Delta Air Lines has a plan to retire at least 383 aircraft by 2025. More than 200 of these are expected to exit the airline’s fleet in 2020 alone. With these retirements, Delta will move to a more streamlined fleet.


Parked does not equal retired. For example, DL has not retired any A220's, some are parked because they don't have pilots trained to fly them.

Since 1/1 Delta has retired:
73 Md-88/90
10 73G
18 777
7 763

If you assume the parked 763er, 717 and 320 fleets are not coming back, that adds:
29 763er
29 717
16 320s

For a total of 182 frames.

Staffing levels reflect the parking of airplanes.

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