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FCOTSTW
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:58 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Mess. Thanksgiving meltdown. Now Christmas meltdown.


Aren' t we blessed to be in Michigan??? All we got was a thin layer of snow and nothing else... (don' t get accustomed to this though).
 
Corpsnerd09
Posts: 634
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:05 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:38 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Corpsnerd09 wrote:
Antarius wrote:

AA retired the a330, 767, 757, CR2 and E190.


AA also outright furloughed staff, DL just had them take "voluntary" leaves. They're all still employed.

AA has plenty of staff who took VLOAs, not just furloughs. Also some took retirements and buyouts.


Well yeah, that's not my point.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4330
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:52 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Oh yes they have.
https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Del ... 0Lines.htm


https://simpleflying.com/delta-2020-200 ... ments/amp/


Delta Air Lines has a plan to retire at least 383 aircraft by 2025. More than 200 of these are expected to exit the airline’s fleet in 2020 alone. With these retirements, Delta will move to a more streamlined fleet.


Parked does not equal retired. For example, DL has not retired any A220's, some are parked because they don't have pilots trained to fly them.

Since 1/1 Delta has retired:
73 Md-88/90
10 73G
18 777
7 763

If you assume the parked 763er, 717 and 320 fleets are not coming back, that adds:
29 763er
29 717
16 320s

For a total of 182 frames.

Staffing levels reflect the parking of airplanes.


Not necessarily, it depends on how long they expect the aircraft to be parked for. DL has historically parked planes for the winter but they don't retrain pilots just to have to train them back in the spring.
 
AZORMP
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:08 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:53 pm

FCOTSTW wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Mess. Thanksgiving meltdown. Now Christmas meltdown.


Aren' t we blessed to be in Michigan??? All we got was a thin layer of snow and nothing else... (don' t get accustomed to this though).


Don’t know what part of Michigan you live in but we got 4” of powder in two days and the UP had it worse. DL canceled CIU flights a couple days ago because it was apparently “too windy to de-ice”.

9E is having problems as well, specifically with their CRJ-200s. The 8:15 AZO-MSP has been delayed five times in the last week, four maintenance and one delay caused by maintenance on another aircraft (19th, 21st, 22nd, 25th, and 26th) with the flight not leaving until 2251 on the 21st.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2688
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:07 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

Parked does not equal retired. For example, DL has not retired any A220's, some are parked because they don't have pilots trained to fly them.

Since 1/1 Delta has retired:
73 Md-88/90
10 73G
18 777
7 763

If you assume the parked 763er, 717 and 320 fleets are not coming back, that adds:
29 763er
29 717
16 320s

For a total of 182 frames.

Staffing levels reflect the parking of airplanes.


Not necessarily, it depends on how long they expect the aircraft to be parked for. DL has historically parked planes for the winter but they don't retrain pilots just to have to train them back in the spring.

These are parked/retired due to Covid. If they weren’t the pilots would be available to fly.
 
TW870
Posts: 1363
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:07 pm

Thomaas wrote:
There is very little reason for DL to be short-staffed when they haven't furloughed any pilots and you have qualified ones sitting at home getting paid. Displacements or not, there should be plenty of crew and aircraft to go around given the drastically reduced frequencies over last year. Re-training or not, DL only retired the 777s and MDs, so they should still have the staffing for pre-covid operations for the rest of the fleet. Hopefully this leads to tough questions for management during the investors presentation as it seems to be the only airline struggling with staffing in Covid times.


It is not quite that easy. Basically management has to make a choice. Either you pay senior folks who have been displaced from retired (or downsized) fleets their full pay to sit home, or you set off a cascade of training events by forcing a re-bid due to the loss of seats. From what I am able to understand, Delta was more aggressive that UA or AA in re-sizing the airline, displacing from the senior fleets and then going through the whole re-training churn. That may have been a sensible strategy, but it doesn't seem like flight operations communicate clearly enough with network planning - especially on the 320 and 73N fleets - and that network just built way too much November and December flying based on the available pilot capacity. Hopefully they are planning to not repeat this in the second quarter, when presumably we will start to see demand recover due to vaccine distribution.
 
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klm617
Posts: 5467
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:08 pm

FCOTSTW wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Mess. Thanksgiving meltdown. Now Christmas meltdown.


Aren' t we blessed to be in Michigan??? All we got was a thin layer of snow and nothing else... (don' t get accustomed to this though).


We have a well oiled machine when it comes to snow removal at DTW that pretty much keeps the airport running under all winter weather conditions.
 
pezzy669
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:30 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:27 pm

DL operations have been on a downhill slide since pandemic, I have done 11 segments since March 2020 and the slide in operations has been noticeable both in airports (DL stronghold hubs) and flights.

Being ATL based I have pretty much had blind loyalty to DL (and a self admitted fanboy) since 2012 and have done 100+ segments since 2012, I pay a premium vs WN or UA/AA connections so I can accrue SkyMiles for larger vacations here and there. The 8 years of goodwill they built up with me is quickly eroding as it seems operational problems are happening more often than not these days.
 
alasizon
Posts: 3056
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:42 pm

TW870 wrote:
That may have been a sensible strategy, but it doesn't seem like flight operations communicate clearly enough with network planning - especially on the 320 and 73N fleets - and that network just built way too much November and December flying based on the available pilot capacity. Hopefully they are planning to not repeat this in the second quarter, when presumably we will start to see demand recover due to vaccine distribution.


This doesn't seem to be a communication problem - it seems to be a not listening problem. Crew planning doesn't just put out a guess in terms of how many block hours they can accept, it is a very well known quantity and includes a pretty decent buffer for IRROPs. If even after getting that number someone instructed Network Planning to schedule above that, that is a problem. Or if someone just ignored Crew Planning's numbers and told them to make it work anyway, that is a problem. These decisions come from your VP level up so someone has some explaining to do.

No airline goes and builds a schedule that they know they can't physically operate and there are so many checks and balances in the Network Planning world that if someone says any portion of a schedule is infeasible it gets the attention it needs. Plus after a poor Thanksgiving showing, I guarantee you someone's team at DL was tasked with re-reviewing their Christmas schedule to prevent a recurrence and either someone didn't listen to what that team had to say or they just decided to go for it anyhow.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2688
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:55 pm

TW870 wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
There is very little reason for DL to be short-staffed when they haven't furloughed any pilots and you have qualified ones sitting at home getting paid. Displacements or not, there should be plenty of crew and aircraft to go around given the drastically reduced frequencies over last year. Re-training or not, DL only retired the 777s and MDs, so they should still have the staffing for pre-covid operations for the rest of the fleet. Hopefully this leads to tough questions for management during the investors presentation as it seems to be the only airline struggling with staffing in Covid times.


It is not quite that easy. Basically management has to make a choice. Either you pay senior folks who have been displaced from retired (or downsized) fleets their full pay to sit home, or you set off a cascade of training events by forcing a re-bid due to the loss of seats. From what I am able to understand, Delta was more aggressive that UA or AA in re-sizing the airline, displacing from the senior fleets and then going through the whole re-training churn. That may have been a sensible strategy, but it doesn't seem like flight operations communicate clearly enough with network planning - especially on the 320 and 73N fleets - and that network just built way too much November and December flying based on the available pilot capacity. Hopefully they are planning to not repeat this in the second quarter, when presumably we will start to see demand recover due to vaccine distribution.

A330 pilots are AA are just coming back to the line on other planes now.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 693
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:19 pm

Tons of delays today even though the weather is good everywhere.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 1718
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:33 pm

diverted wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
gaystudpilot wrote:

I’ve never “puked on the deck.”

That was a bunch of crazy talk.


Spend a week taking calls in scheduling during storm season, then say that again.


Can confirm.
Some highlights include "I just got home to all my stuff on the lawn, I need to book off"
"My ex wife took off with the kids and I don't know where they are, I need to book off"
"My car battery was dead, so I tried hooking up the cables, and there was sparks and I don't know what to do, I need to book off"
"It's snowing I don't know if the roads will be ok later tonight when we get back from this turn, so I'll book off"

Lol...
“I have a reassignment for y.....”,
“I’m fatigued!”
 
Antarius
Posts: 3436
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:36 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Yakflyer wrote:

The biggest difference between DL & UA is the no furlough agreement UA made with it's pilots keeps them in the seats they were in when the pandemic began. UA has had some small amount of reshuffling because of specific types (mostly 777 and 787) not being flown in specific cities, but for the most part they haven't had the wholesale musical chairs DL is dealing with. At UA everyone is expected to keep current but there are no repercussions if a pilot needs to go to the sim to stay current and slips out of currency because of a lack of sim availability. There is some initial training going on because of the voluntary early retirement of senior pilots but that is mostly just upward which is much easier to manage than the movement resulting from whole fleets being retired at DL. During the pandemic nobody has adjusted the makeup of their fleets anywhere near as much as Delta. That still does not mean there shouldn't be some repercussions for the failure of providing the service they promised when they booked those flights.


AA retired the a330, 767, 757, CR2 and E190.

CR2 are not mainline they retired 19 flown by PSA


Yes. I was including everything under the AA brand, but yes, that wouldn't affect the mainline pilots.
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:55 pm

Interesting to witness from the other side of the Atlantic. DL TATL into AMS was also affected it seems. At the moment DL flies seven dailies here to AMS.
Three out of seven were nowhere to be found last two days
DL160/161 MSP - AMS - MSP
DL 258/259 BOS - AMS - BOS
DL 142/143 SEA - AMS - SEA
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4330
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:07 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Interesting to witness from the other side of the Atlantic. DL TATL into AMS was also affected it seems. At the moment DL flies seven dailies here to AMS.
Three out of seven were nowhere to be found last two days
DL160/161 MSP - AMS - MSP
DL 258/259 BOS - AMS - BOS
DL 142/143 SEA - AMS - SEA


I actually think those were not scheduled. Most US carriers run a very reduced TATL schedule over the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays.
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:20 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Interesting to witness from the other side of the Atlantic. DL TATL into AMS was also affected it seems. At the moment DL flies seven dailies here to AMS.
Three out of seven were nowhere to be found last two days
DL160/161 MSP - AMS - MSP
DL 258/259 BOS - AMS - BOS
DL 142/143 SEA - AMS - SEA


I actually think those were not scheduled. Most US carriers run a very reduced TATL schedule over the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays.


Ah...that explains it. Thanks for the info.
 
ScorpioMC3
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:52 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:37 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
diverted wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:

Spend a week taking calls in scheduling during storm season, then say that again.


Can confirm.
Some highlights include "I just got home to all my stuff on the lawn, I need to book off"
"My ex wife took off with the kids and I don't know where they are, I need to book off"
"My car battery was dead, so I tried hooking up the cables, and there was sparks and I don't know what to do, I need to book off"
"It's snowing I don't know if the roads will be ok later tonight when we get back from this turn, so I'll book off"

Lol...
“I have a reassignment for y.....”,
“I’m fatigued!”


Yesterday I took a call out because a pilot said he locked himself out of his apartment and won't be able to get all his stuff to commute for his trip in time. :roll:
 
panamair
Posts: 4470
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:42 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Interesting to witness from the other side of the Atlantic. DL TATL into AMS was also affected it seems. At the moment DL flies seven dailies here to AMS.
Three out of seven were nowhere to be found last two days
DL160/161 MSP - AMS - MSP
DL 258/259 BOS - AMS - BOS
DL 142/143 SEA - AMS - SEA


All those three flights were not scheduled to operate on 24 and 25 Dec (from the US side) and in the case of MSP, also not on 26 Dec.
 
DualQual
Posts: 753
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:06 pm

ScorpioMC3 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
diverted wrote:

Can confirm.
Some highlights include "I just got home to all my stuff on the lawn, I need to book off"
"My ex wife took off with the kids and I don't know where they are, I need to book off"
"My car battery was dead, so I tried hooking up the cables, and there was sparks and I don't know what to do, I need to book off"
"It's snowing I don't know if the roads will be ok later tonight when we get back from this turn, so I'll book off"

Lol...
“I have a reassignment for y.....”,
“I’m fatigued!”


Yesterday I took a call out because a pilot said he locked himself out of his apartment and won't be able to get all his stuff to commute for his trip in time. :roll:


Then that pilot shared far too much information with you. All a scheduler should be told is that the pilot is calling in sick. Contrary to the beliefs of some schedulers, crew doesn’t work for or answer to the scheduling desk.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 1718
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:13 pm

DualQual wrote:
ScorpioMC3 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Lol...
“I have a reassignment for y.....”,
“I’m fatigued!”


Yesterday I took a call out because a pilot said he locked himself out of his apartment and won't be able to get all his stuff to commute for his trip in time. :roll:


Then that pilot shared far too much information with you. All a scheduler should be told is that the pilot is calling in sick. Contrary to the beliefs of some schedulers, crew doesn’t work for or answer to the scheduling desk.

(Union Rep has joined the chat)
 
catiii
Posts: 3889
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:54 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
gaystudpilot wrote:
catiii wrote:

I flew two turns yesterday out of JFK. The turbulence was not “severe.” It was barely sporty on the approach. And pilots generally aren’t “puking on the deck.”

Spoken like a non-pilot.


I’ve never “puked on the deck.”

That was a bunch of crazy talk.


Spend a week taking calls in scheduling during storm season, then say that again.


Yep, we knew you weren’t a pilot.
 
jagraham
Posts: 1200
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:14 am

Boof02671 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
American Airlines cancelled only 1 flight yesterday. How can they run such a smooth operation while DL can't? Covid cannot be used an excuse... Sorry...


I agree. American also retired four fleet types (E-190s, 757s, 767s, A330s) and has been running a larger schedule but has not had any of the upheaval DL has.
Do better Delta management.

20 190s, 34 767s, 24 757s, and 24 330s. Compared to 193 MD80/88/90, 18 777, 35 319/20/21s 29 717s, 14 330s, 16 737s, 55 757/67s and 7 220s.

Big difference


There is also the timing. Except for the 330s, AA is operating to a previous plan. Whereas DL advanced everything but the MD80s when COVID hit . . DL's fleet changes this year were supposed to be spread out over 5+ years before COVID, and replacement aircraft were scheduled to be purchased.
 
FlyingElvii
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Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:03 am

catiii wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
gaystudpilot wrote:

I’ve never “puked on the deck.”

That was a bunch of crazy talk.


Spend a week taking calls in scheduling during storm season, then say that again.


Yep, we knew you weren’t a pilot.

Well, not of the big jets anyway....
I stay below 12k.
 
ScorpioMC3
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:52 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:10 am

DualQual wrote:
ScorpioMC3 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Lol...
“I have a reassignment for y.....”,
“I’m fatigued!”


Yesterday I took a call out because a pilot said he locked himself out of his apartment and won't be able to get all his stuff to commute for his trip in time. :roll:


Then that pilot shared far too much information with you. All a scheduler should be told is that the pilot is calling in sick. Contrary to the beliefs of some schedulers, crew doesn’t work for or answer to the scheduling desk.


Then you'd be amazed how much pilots share unprompted and unasked. :lol:
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1298
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:57 pm

We are a group flying today to PLS (Turks & Caicos) from JFK and Atlanta. Both flights were delayed 4 hours in advance of the flights. Now the question is do we delay going to the airport. With COVID no one wants to hang out at the airport. I hope DL solves the staffing issue. Btw the Diamond line said it was air traffic control that caused the delay (2 hours delay 4 hours in advance of flight with no weather?) when I said the ATL flight was also delayed, she said yeah we are having issues today. Both flights were delayed yesterday (26th) as well.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:05 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
We are a group flying today to PLS (Turks & Caicos) from JFK and Atlanta. Both flights were delayed 4 hours in advance of the flights. Now the question is do we delay going to the airport. With COVID no one wants to hang out at the airport. I hope DL solves the staffing issue. Btw the Diamond line said it was air traffic control that caused the delay (2 hours delay 4 hours in advance of flight with no weather?) when I said the ATL flight was also delayed, she said yeah we are having issues today. Both flights were delayed yesterday (26th) as well.


FWIW, UA also had lots of delays up and down the East Coast on Saturday. There was no weather.
 
RogerMurdock
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:01 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:31 pm

Days before Christmas it was becoming apparent that Delta did not have enough pilots to cover their Christmas schedule.

@xJonNYC
Dec 20
A little more on this; someone has reviewed the 320, 757 and 767 lists of available DL pilots/FO's for the peak Christmas period and it sure seems like DL is in for another very rough holiday period.

@xJonNYC
Dec 22
“It looks like tomorrow will be when the deck of cards begins to crumble. Everyone who wanted overtime has already been assigned it. Multiple open trips still in opentime a little over 12 hours out. This doesn't happen at Delta.
OT pays 200% so pilots eat it up. .

.. DL just have no pilots left to cover the operation. It'll be interesting to see how they pull this off.


https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1340654968081010692
 
GroundStop
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 12:48 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:26 pm

Every airline (or GA aircraft flying IFR) was subject to ATC delays yesterday and the same is true again today (Sunday). There are numerous ATC initiatives to and through Florida and the Caribbean, with PLS being the delay leader at a 229 minute average delay. In this of delays through Jacksonville Center, air carriers can either fly through the 'line' drawn across the upper peninsula and take their assigned delay or file around the line by routing via the Q/Y routes across the Gulf or the deep water routes in the Atlantic (further out than the AR's). This is often a balance between whether it is more efficient to take the delay on the ground without burning crew time and fuel, or if the time savings is worth both of those things and several additional variables like aircraft capability.
 
twinotter
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:13 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:38 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
FWIW, UA also had lots of delays up and down the East Coast on Saturday. There was no weather.


All airlines did. In addition to the airspace flow programs affecting southbound traffic, Miami Center was enforcing lengthy miles-in-trail restrictions by metering departures out of South Florida airports. Flights departing RSW and SRQ blocked out and would hold up to two hours before being allowed to take off.
Last edited by twinotter on Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
CRJockey
Posts: 354
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:54 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:46 pm

catiii wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
gaystudpilot wrote:

I’ve never “puked on the deck.”

That was a bunch of crazy talk.


Spend a week taking calls in scheduling during storm season, then say that again.


Yep, we knew you weren’t a pilot.


Haha, indeed. Never heard of any fellow colleagues checking out for turbulence induced puking. Not even one complaining he would be sick from it. In the simulator on ground taxiing though... ;-)
 
catiii
Posts: 3889
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:27 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
catiii wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:

Spend a week taking calls in scheduling during storm season, then say that again.


Yep, we knew you weren’t a pilot.

Well, not of the big jets anyway....
I stay below 12k.


Figured. No airline pilot would be making generalized and inaccurate statements about “puking on the deck” and other misinformation about the weather.
 
catiii
Posts: 3889
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:30 am

CRJockey wrote:
catiii wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:

Spend a week taking calls in scheduling during storm season, then say that again.


Yep, we knew you weren’t a pilot.


Haha, indeed. Never heard of any fellow colleagues checking out for turbulence induced puking. Not even one complaining he would be sick from it. In the simulator on ground taxiing though... ;-)


Lol. I’ve only gotten sick two times in an airplane.

Once in the back of a C130, and the other was the first time in a then brand new Level D sim checking out as an FO on the 757/767.
 
LASVegan
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:29 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:37 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I haven't heard the same buzz that I did over Thanksgiving and there was the MSP blizzard and northeast major wind event to consider. I agree if they over sold the schedule for something they never could operate that would be pretty terrible. They had a terrible thanksgiving and that seems like a shame on them

The turbulence was severe yesterday, from the Northeast to the Midwest. Even the most seasoned pilots can only take that for so long until they start puking on the deck. I imagine the fatigue call offs were as much a part of this as anything else. It is never just one thing, it takes a lot to screw up an airline like Delta.


Very well played if this was a joke.
 
WA707atMSP
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:08 pm

It's beginning to snow in MSP, with 2 to 5 inches expected through tomorrow morning.

MSP airport won't have trouble keeping the runways and taxiways clean, but it will be interesting to see whether the snow de stabilizes Delta's operation.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:00 am

How much were passengers inconvenienced? If only put on a later flight (as loads were light), not a big deal. If because of a true pilot shortage, bad. So far, this seems like a big deal about little. How many passengers were stranded for more than 4 hours? Overnight?

Lightsaber
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:17 am

[list=][/list]
lightsaber wrote:
How much were passengers inconvenienced? If only put on a later flight (as loads were light), not a big deal. If because of a true pilot shortage, bad. So far, this seems like a big deal about little. How many passengers were stranded for more than 4 hours? Overnight?

Lightsaber


Well, when they miss their connecting flight due to the delay and their is not another flight to their destination that day, that’s a pretty big inconvenience.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 970
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:27 am

pezzy669 wrote:
DL operations have been on a downhill slide since pandemic, I have done 11 segments since March 2020 and the slide in operations has been noticeable both in airports (DL stronghold hubs) and flights.

Being ATL based I have pretty much had blind loyalty to DL (and a self admitted fanboy) since 2012 and have done 100+ segments since 2012, I pay a premium vs WN or UA/AA connections so I can accrue SkyMiles for larger vacations here and there. The 8 years of goodwill they built up with me is quickly eroding as it seems operational problems are happening more often than not these days.

Based on data year-to-date (Jan to Oct 2020), Delta was still the number one most on-time airline of the 10 reporting. See page 8 of 45
https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... 20ATCR.pdf

For a smaller timeframe, Delta was still number 2 in October 2020, behind Southwest.

That said, this doesn't include the Thanksgiving and Christmas cancellations. And Christmas was directly followed by the ongoing ATC congestion in the southeastern US, which has caused a headache for all the airlines.
We'll see how MSP does tomorrow.
 
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N717TW
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:41 am

I have loved the variety of the Delta fleet (plus the background and prior history of so many of the jets) since the NWA merger, but the complexity seems to hitting them harder compared to the fewer fleet types/ratings at AA/UA/WN/AS/B6.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:51 am

Listening to Live ATC MSP ground feed. It's really interesting listening to them get the planes through the deicing pads.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:58 am

maps4ltd wrote:
pezzy669 wrote:
DL operations have been on a downhill slide since pandemic, I have done 11 segments since March 2020 and the slide in operations has been noticeable both in airports (DL stronghold hubs) and flights.

Being ATL based I have pretty much had blind loyalty to DL (and a self admitted fanboy) since 2012 and have done 100+ segments since 2012, I pay a premium vs WN or UA/AA connections so I can accrue SkyMiles for larger vacations here and there. The 8 years of goodwill they built up with me is quickly eroding as it seems operational problems are happening more often than not these days.

Based on data year-to-date (Jan to Oct 2020), Delta was still the number one most on-time airline of the 10 reporting. See page 8 of 45
https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... 20ATCR.pdf

For a smaller timeframe, Delta was still number 2 in October 2020, behind Southwest.

That said, this doesn't include the Thanksgiving and Christmas cancellations. And Christmas was directly followed by the ongoing ATC congestion in the southeastern US, which has caused a headache for all the airlines.
We'll see how MSP does tomorrow.

Thank you. I respect this missed the meltdowns, but I prefer numerical comparisons.

So I assume November data in January?

Lightsaber
 
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klm617
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Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:32 am

lightsaber wrote:
How much were passengers inconvenienced? If only put on a later flight (as loads were light), not a big deal. If because of a true pilot shortage, bad. So far, this seems like a big deal about little. How many passengers were stranded for more than 4 hours? Overnight?

Lightsaber


Any inconvenience is a big deal in this day and age. In my first 30 years of flying I was less inconvenienced than I have been in the last 10. I think a lot of people have forgotten what customer service really is where airlines took responsibility when they caused you to miss a flight and held that flight. Now a days they will hold flights for a variety of reasons except for passengers with close or late connections because of over sold flights they are more than happy to give your seat to some else with little or no recourse for the customer.
 
Speedy752
Posts: 117
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:13 am

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:44 am

maps4ltd wrote:
pezzy669 wrote:
DL operations have been on a downhill slide since pandemic, I have done 11 segments since March 2020 and the slide in operations has been noticeable both in airports (DL stronghold hubs) and flights.

Being ATL based I have pretty much had blind loyalty to DL (and a self admitted fanboy) since 2012 and have done 100+ segments since 2012, I pay a premium vs WN or UA/AA connections so I can accrue SkyMiles for larger vacations here and there. The 8 years of goodwill they built up with me is quickly eroding as it seems operational problems are happening more often than not these days.

Based on data year-to-date (Jan to Oct 2020), Delta was still the number one most on-time airline of the 10 reporting. See page 8 of 45
https://www.transportation.gov/sites/do ... 20ATCR.pdf

For a smaller timeframe, Delta was still number 2 in October 2020, behind Southwest.

That said, this doesn't include the Thanksgiving and Christmas cancellations. And Christmas was directly followed by the ongoing ATC congestion in the southeastern US, which has caused a headache for all the airlines.
We'll see how MSP does tomorrow.


Small sample size but with covid boarding and seat blocking my Southwest and 3 Delta flights have all left and arrived early in this last quarter. I find this fascinating how everything gets scheduled and how all the fleet changes have thrown it out of whack (now that I’m back home of course).
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1277
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Uh, oh...looks like Delta's schedule is burning up again

Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:47 am

TW870 wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
There is very little reason for DL to be short-staffed when they haven't furloughed any pilots and you have qualified ones sitting at home getting paid. Displacements or not, there should be plenty of crew and aircraft to go around given the drastically reduced frequencies over last year. Re-training or not, DL only retired the 777s and MDs, so they should still have the staffing for pre-covid operations for the rest of the fleet. Hopefully this leads to tough questions for management during the investors presentation as it seems to be the only airline struggling with staffing in Covid times.


It is not quite that easy. Basically management has to make a choice. Either you pay senior folks who have been displaced from retired (or downsized) fleets their full pay to sit home, or you set off a cascade of training events by forcing a re-bid due to the loss of seats. From what I am able to understand, Delta was more aggressive that UA or AA in re-sizing the airline, displacing from the senior fleets and then going through the whole re-training churn. That may have been a sensible strategy, but it doesn't seem like flight operations communicate clearly enough with network planning - especially on the 320 and 73N fleets - and that network just built way too much November and December flying based on the available pilot capacity. Hopefully they are planning to not repeat this in the second quarter, when presumably we will start to see demand recover due to vaccine distribution.


Sounds correct. At one of my airline jobs, we assigned a bunch of longhaul flying to a fleet type that didn't get much. The crew schedulers saw the number of hours and were going crazy, it was barely doable. But training is a temporary inefficiency. It goes toward a more efficient operation, which outweighs one-time training cost.

COVID is the opposite problem (not enough flying hours and migrating pilots between fleets). I hear it is about keeping the pilots current and/or migrating them to the future operation, with obviously the problem that nobody has certainty on what late 2021 / 2022 operations will be.

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