Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
mcogator
Posts: 592
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:51 am

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:06 am

JFK T4 is about a mile from the end to the exit. I love walking long distances after flights.

LAX during Covid I can jump out of my Uber at T2. Go through Clear/TSAPC, and be at my gate in 5 minutes. Just as long as the Clear employees are present and feel like working that day.
“Traveling – it leaves you speechless, then turns you into a storyteller.” – Ibn Battuta
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 765
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:50 am

Polot wrote:
AirAfreak wrote:
In my opinion, every airport terminal/concourse layout should be similar to the distance between Schiphol’s main terminal and the Polderbaan, for example.

Passengers cannot seem to follow the concept of a timetable, or to respect minimum check-in times, comprehend sense-of-urgency, time management, general awareness, sense of personal space, and planning ahead for weather delays.

For the sake of on-time departures, let us all hope SLC will teach many of you a lesson.

And by the way, I must remind MANY of you airliners.net members from the past whom have repeatedly complained about Paris/CDG Airport being so “complicated and confusing” that actually, and very factually, at one time, (and true to this day) Paris/CDG2A/B/C/D was quite famous for being the only major airline hub to offer the shortest walking distance from car to boarding gate.

And yet, here we are once again... another group of unhappy people ruining the fanfare of a newly-built passenger terminal.

You are only looking at this from an O&D perspective though, and completely ignoring connecting passengers. In which it is not all on the passengers, but the airlines too and what they decide is the minimal connecting time to freely sell to passengers. And remember when DL sells you a 30 min connection that does not mean you have 30 minutes in the airport to get between gates. A plane has arrived and that clock starts ticking when the aircraft has parked at the gate, not the moment you step out of the aircraft into the airport. If you are in the last row of a 739, A321, or 757 with a 30 minute connection you better get hustling even if you arrived on time.


30 minute connections anywhere are generally pushing it; the number of legacy hub airports where I'd be comfortable with one is fairly small (for the record-DTW, MSP, PHX, the DL RDU and CVG hublets, and maaybe IAD and DEN). 30 minutes at SLC where you could be coming off a long narrowbody or a hardstanded* CR9 and then have to walk a mile and possibly switch terminals before your connecting gate closes on the other end is probably a bit optimistic on Delta's part. Given how much is in flux, a ~40 minute minimum connect time might make more sense until Concourse A is completed.

*If the Delta Connection hardstand operation is even half as bad as the AA Gate 35X debacle at DCA, a 30 minute minimum connection time is insanity.
 
Happytycho
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:10 am

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:50 am

alasizon wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
It is interesting to see the walking time chart that the airport posted on its website

Image

Source

https://slcairport.com/maps/airport-map/

13 minutes walking between gates can be tough on a tight connection


Something is off about their assumptions - the improvement from walking on the moving walkway versus walking without it is too negligible. Even assuming they are at only 2 miles per hour (standard is typically 2.75 to 3.25 mph), the walkways should make a much bigger impact on overall walking time.

Their figures also seem slow - less than 3 mph for walking without moving walkways.


Their times appear to be based on a walking speed of about 2.55 miles per hour and a moving walkway speed of 1.12 miles per hour.
 
AmericanAir88
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:26 pm

Long walks are a double-ended sword. Sometimes the bigger walk means more facilities and open space, while other times it is tedious.

If you arrive in a far gate at JFK T4, you will feel like you are walking a marathon to baggage claim. Honestly, T4 needs an MSP-style train.

However, take LGA for instance. Would you prefer the cramped and stubby crowded terminal areas or a longer walk to and through an open modern facility?

I do not know much about SLC, but Delta hubs are known for one thing: Long Walks. ATL, DTW, JFK, and MSP (D-A) are have them.
 
HNLSLCPDX
Topic Author
Posts: 305
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:20 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
Polot wrote:
AirAfreak wrote:
In my opinion, every airport terminal/concourse layout should be similar to the distance between Schiphol’s main terminal and the Polderbaan, for example.

Passengers cannot seem to follow the concept of a timetable, or to respect minimum check-in times, comprehend sense-of-urgency, time management, general awareness, sense of personal space, and planning ahead for weather delays.

For the sake of on-time departures, let us all hope SLC will teach many of you a lesson.

And by the way, I must remind MANY of you airliners.net members from the past whom have repeatedly complained about Paris/CDG Airport being so “complicated and confusing” that actually, and very factually, at one time, (and true to this day) Paris/CDG2A/B/C/D was quite famous for being the only major airline hub to offer the shortest walking distance from car to boarding gate.

And yet, here we are once again... another group of unhappy people ruining the fanfare of a newly-built passenger terminal.

You are only looking at this from an O&D perspective though, and completely ignoring connecting passengers. In which it is not all on the passengers, but the airlines too and what they decide is the minimal connecting time to freely sell to passengers. And remember when DL sells you a 30 min connection that does not mean you have 30 minutes in the airport to get between gates. A plane has arrived and that clock starts ticking when the aircraft has parked at the gate, not the moment you step out of the aircraft into the airport. If you are in the last row of a 739, A321, or 757 with a 30 minute connection you better get hustling even if you arrived on time.


30 minute connections anywhere are generally pushing it; the number of legacy hub airports where I'd be comfortable with one is fairly small (for the record-DTW, MSP, PHX, the DL RDU and CVG hublets, and maaybe IAD and DEN). 30 minutes at SLC where you could be coming off a long narrowbody or a hardstanded* CR9 and then have to walk a mile and possibly switch terminals before your connecting gate closes on the other end is probably a bit optimistic on Delta's part. Given how much is in flux, a ~40 minute minimum connect time might make more sense until Concourse A is completed.

*If the Delta Connection hardstand operation is even half as bad as the AA Gate 35X debacle at DCA, a 30 minute minimum connection time is insanity.

I agree. This might be a little odd. But I feel that the high ceilings make the new SLC terminal and concourses feel bigger than it really is and that might be an intimidating factor (maybe subconsciously) for some passengers. Just a thought.
 
flying505
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:15 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:19 pm

I think there’s one factor that is probably causing a lot of these complaints - that the O&D carriers (aka non DL) are all in the far out B gates.

When every passenger on WN/UA/AA (because every pax is O&D) has to hike all the way to B, they are going to complain. Meanwhile, many of the Delta pax going from the close in A gates are connecting. Flip the two, until the central tunnel is done, and I think complaints get a lot better.
 
DLASFlyer
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:06 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:47 pm

In my experience Delta has been holding flights more than normal for late connecting passengers recently at SLC. I sat onboard for almost an hour the other day while we waited for other pax to make it from another flight.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9434
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:55 pm

F9Animal wrote:

However, MCI was the absolute worst IMO. I wonder if they have fixed that mess? To connect flights I had to run out to the next terminal and go through TSA again. That was not fun.


MCI was the airport I had in mind as 'Good for O&D, short walk from the curb,' but miserable for connections. Look at the number of gates/planes per 1,000 steps to walk between planes, for example, compared to DTW or ATL. It's been a few years since I last passed through MCI - and that was destination, not as a connection. :)
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 765
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:58 pm

flying505 wrote:
I think there’s one factor that is probably causing a lot of these complaints - that the O&D carriers (aka non DL) are all in the far out B gates.

When every passenger on WN/UA/AA (because every pax is O&D) has to hike all the way to B, they are going to complain. Meanwhile, many of the Delta pax going from the close in A gates are connecting. Flip the two, until the central tunnel is done, and I think complaints get a lot better.


Everyone's comparing the new SLC to DTW and ATL, but the correct answer is that it will be an eerie clone of the old CVG hub (minus the DL Connection Concourse C, and with A being the bigger Concourse in SLC rather than B at CVG). CVG has/had a plane train between Concourses A and B at CVG over an even shorter distance. You can say that such a train will be less necessary when Delta consolidates into a bigger Concourse A, but I can already tell there is a high likelihood of Delta outgrowing A and spilling back onto B sooner rather than later. It might be wise to take some of the savings they're accruing now and just get it over and put a train in and be ahead of the curve.
 
HNLSLCPDX
Topic Author
Posts: 305
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:43 am

GSP psgr wrote:
flying505 wrote:
I think there’s one factor that is probably causing a lot of these complaints - that the O&D carriers (aka non DL) are all in the far out B gates.

When every passenger on WN/UA/AA (because every pax is O&D) has to hike all the way to B, they are going to complain. Meanwhile, many of the Delta pax going from the close in A gates are connecting. Flip the two, until the central tunnel is done, and I think complaints get a lot better.


Everyone's comparing the new SLC to DTW and ATL, but the correct answer is that it will be an eerie clone of the old CVG hub (minus the DL Connection Concourse C, and with A being the bigger Concourse in SLC rather than B at CVG). CVG has/had a plane train between Concourses A and B at CVG over an even shorter distance. You can say that such a train will be less necessary when Delta consolidates into a bigger Concourse A, but I can already tell there is a high likelihood of Delta outgrowing A and spilling back onto B sooner rather than later. It might be wise to take some of the savings they're accruing now and just get it over and put a train in and be ahead of the curve.

The train definitely is needed. It’s inevitable. Too bad they didn’t pony up and put the train as part of the planes from the beginning.
 
User avatar
chunhimlai
Posts: 688
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:03 am

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:02 am

https://slcairport.com/assets/pdfDocume ... tances.pdf

Distance from security check to furthest point in terminal and estimated walking time
 
ScottB
Posts: 7345
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:11 am

Polot wrote:
And remember when DL sells you a 30 min connection that does not mean you have 30 minutes in the airport to get between gates. A plane has arrived and that clock starts ticking when the aircraft has parked at the gate, not the moment you step out of the aircraft into the airport. If you are in the last row of a 739, A321, or 757 with a 30 minute connection you better get hustling even if you arrived on time.


Keep in mind that DL also has a nasty habit of closing the door 10 minutes prior to departure, so that 30 minutes is actually 20 minutes.

AmericanAir88 wrote:
I do not know much about SLC, but Delta hubs are known for one thing: Long Walks. ATL, DTW, JFK, and MSP (D-A) are have them.


The real winner at MSP is B to F or vice versa (or maybe B to a low-numbered G gate), although I don't think B sees much use these days. A to F is the runner up. The walks at DTW aren't that bad when the train is operating.

AmericanAir88 wrote:
take LGA for instance. Would you prefer the cramped and stubby crowded terminal areas or a longer walk to and through an open modern facility?


I'm not at the airport to enjoy the architecture. Before the 92-98 gates opened, getting between the two farthest points (D5/6/7/8 and C34/35/37) was doable in 10 minutes. It was 15-20 before the C-D bridge was demolished.
 
DaveMetroD
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:05 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:25 am

The connection at DTW between concourse A and B/C is done by moving sidewalk or walking.
The issues at SLC right now are due to construction sequencing. When done SLC will have a decent facility to use into the future.
A little pain for long term gain is worth it.
 
HNLSLCPDX
Topic Author
Posts: 305
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:03 pm

DaveMetroD wrote:
The connection at DTW between concourse A and B/C is done by moving sidewalk or walking.
The issues at SLC right now are due to construction sequencing. When done SLC will have a decent facility to use into the future.
A little pain for long term gain is worth it.

I think a problem SLC will always face is the fact they will not have an underground train. That will always hurt them and bring in complaints.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15050
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:22 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
DaveMetroD wrote:
The connection at DTW between concourse A and B/C is done by moving sidewalk or walking.
The issues at SLC right now are due to construction sequencing. When done SLC will have a decent facility to use into the future.
A little pain for long term gain is worth it.

I think a problem SLC will always face is the fact they will not have an underground train. That will always hurt them and bring in complaints.


Hurt them how? Realistically no one will book away from the airport because of the lack of train. You think an STL-PDX passenger will fly an hour or more out of her way because she might have to walk at SLC?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
User avatar
fanoftristars
Posts: 1680
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 9:03 am

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:37 pm

Many airports with parallel concourses don’t have a train. McNamara at DTW, T1 at ORD, etc
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22074
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:16 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
DaveMetroD wrote:
The connection at DTW between concourse A and B/C is done by moving sidewalk or walking.
The issues at SLC right now are due to construction sequencing. When done SLC will have a decent facility to use into the future.
A little pain for long term gain is worth it.

I think a problem SLC will always face is the fact they will not have an underground train. That will always hurt them and bring in complaints.


Hurt them how? Realistically no one will book away from the airport because of the lack of train. You think an STL-PDX passenger will fly an hour or more out of her way because she might have to walk at SLC?

I do not think the lack of a train matters much. For years DFW only had the slow people mover to change between O&D optimized terminals. I still think of it as the new train.

Alas, I was to switch aircraft at SLC in two weeks, but the LA county quarantine on return will force me to cancel... bummer (I don't have the time to sit for 14 days).

Lightsaber
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15050
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:46 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
I think a problem SLC will always face is the fact they will not have an underground train. That will always hurt them and bring in complaints.


Hurt them how? Realistically no one will book away from the airport because of the lack of train. You think an STL-PDX passenger will fly an hour or more out of her way because she might have to walk at SLC?

I do not think the lack of a train matters much. For years DFW only had the slow people mover to change between O&D optimized terminals. I still think of it as the new train.

Alas, I was to switch aircraft at SLC in two weeks, but the LA county quarantine on return will force me to cancel... bummer (I don't have the time to sit for 14 days).

Lightsaber


It’s also important to remember that the connecting experience at “old SLC” wasn’t very good either. The walks weren’t as long but the concourses were narrow and congested. B to E wasn’t fun.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 585
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:17 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
I think a problem SLC will always face is the fact they will not have an underground train. That will always hurt them and bring in complaints.


Hurt them how? Realistically no one will book away from the airport because of the lack of train. You think an STL-PDX passenger will fly an hour or more out of her way because she might have to walk at SLC?

I do not think the lack of a train matters much. For years DFW only had the slow people mover to change between O&D optimized terminals. I still think of it as the new train.

Alas, I was to switch aircraft at SLC in two weeks, but the LA county quarantine on return will force me to cancel... bummer (I don't have the time to sit for 14 days).

Lightsaber


Should have booked in/out of ONT then LOL..
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
HNLSLCPDX
Topic Author
Posts: 305
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:39 pm

Or better yet avoid California all together.

I’ve noticed a lot of the delayed flights which results in people rushing between concourses are the early morning arrivals on OO from airports up in Montana that are arriving into B gates that require the shuttle from plane to concourse.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3915
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:05 pm

DaveMetroD wrote:
The connection at DTW between concourse A and B/C is done by moving sidewalk or walking. The issues at SLC right now are due to construction sequencing. When done SLC will have a decent facility to use into the future. A little pain for long term gain is worth it.


:checkmark: . I find it more than ironic that we have, in less than a century, developed a means of transportation that will whisk us, while sitting in a chair, across the continent at 600 miles per hour; a system that can take us half-way around the world in less than a day; and an industry that has achieved a safety record unparalleled by any other method of transport... and we are complaining about how far we have to walk in an airport to get to the gate.

We are definitely spoiled!


;)
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
oosnowrat
Posts: 231
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:55 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:35 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
It’s also important to remember that the connecting experience at “old SLC” wasn’t very good either. The walks weren’t as long but the concourses were narrow and congested. B to E wasn’t fun.


An excellent point. The new longer walk - even from curb to gate - is *much* more pleasant than the old shorter walk.

Maybe some of the money saved by accelerating the project will be used to bring a train online sooner? If DL still has ops in concourse B when everything is done, I hope they will keep the current tunnel operational, too.
 
TigerFlyer
Posts: 241
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:51 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:41 pm

We are spoiled here in the U.S. All flat, easily accessible walkways many with moving sidewalks and trams. SLC is a dream compared to the likes of FRA and CDG where you're climbing up and down staircases and through tunnels and access ways that look like they should be hardhat areas.
 
Bradin
Posts: 397
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:12 am

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:56 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
https://slcairport.com/assets/pdfDocuments/The-New-SLC/SLC-Walking-Distances.pdf

Distance from security check to furthest point in terminal and estimated walking time


15 minutes to and from all gates isn't bad. (Point A to C, and to some extent B to C)

However, I do empathize with those trying to meet a 30 minute connection if your gate is near Point A or Point B and your connecting flight gate is at Point C, and your flight arrives exactly as written on the schedule, and you spend the first twenty minutes trying to get off your aircraft before the 15 minute sprint across SLC to your next flight.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15050
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:02 pm

Bradin wrote:
chunhimlai wrote:
https://slcairport.com/assets/pdfDocuments/The-New-SLC/SLC-Walking-Distances.pdf

Distance from security check to furthest point in terminal and estimated walking time


15 minutes to and from all gates isn't bad. (Point A to C, and to some extent B to C)

However, I do empathize with those trying to meet a 30 minute connection if your gate is near Point A or Point B and your connecting flight gate is at Point C, and your flight exactly as written on the schedule, and you spend the first twenty minutes trying to get off your aircraft before the 15 minute hussle to your next flight.


But that’s a Delta scheduling issue, not an airport issue. My last pre-renovation connection was B7 or B9 to a high D gate. I was coming off of a CR9 so had to wait planeside for my bag. I would have missed a 30-minute connection and 40 minutes would even have been tight.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 765
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:36 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Or better yet avoid California all together.

I’ve noticed a lot of the delayed flights which results in people rushing between concourses are the early morning arrivals on OO from airports up in Montana that are arriving into B gates that require the shuttle from plane to concourse.


I wonder if it would be wiser for Delta to try to run their bus gate operation out of A instead of B. IIRC, Delta has all of A and only 8 gates on B-as the Delta Connection flights are mostly going to be connecting pax, dumping them in a terminal where you're running only a quarter of your flights out of strikes me as not very smart thinking.
 
Bradin
Posts: 397
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:12 am

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:27 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Bradin wrote:
chunhimlai wrote:
https://slcairport.com/assets/pdfDocuments/The-New-SLC/SLC-Walking-Distances.pdf

Distance from security check to furthest point in terminal and estimated walking time


15 minutes to and from all gates isn't bad. (Point A to C, and to some extent B to C)

However, I do empathize with those trying to meet a 30 minute connection if your gate is near Point A or Point B and your connecting flight gate is at Point C, and your flight exactly as written on the schedule, and you spend the first twenty minutes trying to get off your aircraft before the 15 minute hussle to your next flight.


But that’s a Delta scheduling issue, not an airport issue. My last pre-renovation connection was B7 or B9 to a high D gate. I was coming off of a CR9 so had to wait planeside for my bag. I would have missed a 30-minute connection and 40 minutes would even have been tight.


Agree that it's a Delta scheduling issue :-).
 
oosnowrat
Posts: 231
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:55 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:49 am

GSP psgr wrote:
I wonder if it would be wiser for Delta to try to run their bus gate operation out of A instead of B. IIRC, Delta has all of A and only 8 gates on B-as the Delta Connection flights are mostly going to be connecting pax, dumping them in a terminal where you're running only a quarter of your flights out of strikes me as not very smart thinking.


That would probably triple the length of the bus ride, negating any walking time saved. The current hardstand operation is done pretty well, I think. It's a way better experience than the one they had set up right after they closed the E concourse.
 
User avatar
AirAfreak
Posts: 1014
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:20 am

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:42 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
AirAfreak wrote:
Paris/CDG2A/B/C/D was quite famous for being the only major airline hub to offer the shortest walking distance from car to boarding gate.


You sure about that? How does it compare to the mid-70s terminal structure of DFW?

Being a good O&D terminal (curb to gate distance being just one metric) and being a good large hub (big numbers of people, efficient movement of lots and lots of planes) really aren't the same thing.


Yes, I am sure. Actually, you can see for yourself. The curb is parallel to check-in, security checkpoint, and all boarding gates at CDG2A-D. I have used CDG2C as an O&D and connecting airport enough times to gain Fréquence Plus Rouge status throughout the mid-late nineties when flying Air France and Air Inter (Air France Europe). Upon further reflection, Air France advertised the CDG2 Hub as having the shortest distance between car to plane AND being one of the most efficient hubs in Europe with the shortest connecting times for connecting passengers. In all of my flying with Air France, I have never missed a connecting flight with a short transfer. If I can locate that Air France advert, I will post it in quotes... because uploading any image on this darn website is a pain in the... .
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.
 
User avatar
AirAfreak
Posts: 1014
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:20 am

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:58 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Polot wrote:
AirAfreak wrote:
In my opinion, every airport terminal/concourse layout should be similar to the distance between Schiphol’s main terminal and the Polderbaan, for example.

Passengers cannot seem to follow the concept of a timetable, or to respect minimum check-in times, comprehend sense-of-urgency, time management, general awareness, sense of personal space, and planning ahead for weather delays.

For the sake of on-time departures, let us all hope SLC will teach many of you a lesson.

And by the way, I must remind MANY of you airliners.net members from the past whom have repeatedly complained about Paris/CDG Airport being so “complicated and confusing” that actually, and very factually, at one time, (and true to this day) Paris/CDG2A/B/C/D was quite famous for being the only major airline hub to offer the shortest walking distance from car to boarding gate.

And yet, here we are once again... another group of unhappy people ruining the fanfare of a newly-built passenger terminal.

You are only looking at this from an O&D perspective though, and completely ignoring connecting passengers. In which it is not all on the passengers, but the airlines too and what they decide is the minimal connecting time to freely sell to passengers. And remember when DL sells you a 30 min connection that does not mean you have 30 minutes in the airport to get between gates. A plane has arrived and that clock starts ticking when the aircraft has parked at the gate, not the moment you step out of the aircraft into the airport. If you are in the last row of a 739, A321, or 757 with a 30 minute connection you better get hustling even if you arrived on time.

Good point.


Personally, I would never allow myself to make the decision to book an itinerary with a 30 minute connecting time. Why? Because, I have common sense. And yes, DL has offered me those very short connections through Atlanta and Seattle, for example, but I know better. I always consider the airport layout, seasonal weather, delays, etc., before purchasing a plane ticket. And those are just some of the reasons why it is hard for me to understand how anyone could complain about the new SLC.

It’s like purchasing a home, sight-unseen. You’re not going to purchase the home if you don’t even know the layout, right? I’ve never transferred at the new SLC, so obviously, I’m not going to take a chance with a 30 minute connecting time and even if I was familiar with SLC, there is no chance in hell that I would even consider to book a short transfer there, or at any airport.
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10366
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:25 pm

AirAfreak wrote:
Personally, I would never allow myself to make the decision to book an itinerary with a 30 minute connecting time. Why? Because, I have common sense.

There are many airports around the world where a 30 min connection is perfectly ok. There are many airports in the U.S. where a 30 min connection without checked bags is also ok. Most decently run airlines will hold the flight for late arriving connecting passengers especially if it's the only or last flight of the day.
This past Summer I had a tight connection at DEN (45mins). At DEN UA flights use mostly concourse B so usually that's no problem at all. My inbound flight from BZN however, was delayed by a good 20 mins and for some reason ended up going to concourse A. Factoring the Covid rules that make deplaning a lot slower, the walk down concourse A to the train, the train ride to B, the walk all the way to the end of concourse B (we were the 2nd to last gate), we did all of that in 20 mins, and our bags somehow made it onto the plane too. They did hold the flight for other late arriving passengers which probably explains why the bags made it.
Bottom line is, know where you're connecting and what airline you're flying. In some places 30 mins is ok and in some places it isn't.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 897
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:46 pm

Rumor of power out in new SLC.
Next flights:
Who knows? :/
 
DLASFlyer
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:06 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:12 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Rumor of power out in new SLC.


Back on now. Generators seemed to keep the important stuff going. Lots of lights were out but it’s a gorgeous sunny day.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6345
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:42 pm

This should be the end of this type of design at US airports.

What a mess they created here.

Beautiful new terminal that is just a disaster in terms of logistics for anyone that isnt young and fit

Frankly, I don’t know what they were thinking to do something like this without a train.
 
N766UA
Posts: 8386
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:09 pm

777Mech wrote:
There is nothing more American than complaining about how long of a walk between 2 places is, in an air conditioned building no less.

Even more so are the posters blaming DL for making them walk.

The privilege is shining bright.


The eff are you talking about? Airport hubs are about making connections. If you have to walk a long way, you neccessarily have to add more time to make that connection. It’s inefficient and annoying; enough with your signalling.
 
777Mech
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:43 pm

N766UA wrote:
777Mech wrote:
There is nothing more American than complaining about how long of a walk between 2 places is, in an air conditioned building no less.

Even more so are the posters blaming DL for making them walk.

The privilege is shining bright.


The eff are you talking about? Airport hubs are about making connections. If you have to walk a long way, you neccessarily have to add more time to make that connection. It’s inefficient and annoying; enough with your signalling.


What's the issue with a longer connection? If the airline is will to sell a longer connection, then so be it. Or, you could connect through a different city.

The bulk of the complaints are people complaining about the walk to baggage claim, in which my points still stand.
 
vegasplanes
Posts: 714
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:22 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:53 pm

Flying WN in/out of SLC - was not horrible, compared to the "old" terminal walk from the end of "B" or "E" - whatever they re-lettered the old terminal - the new terminal has moving walkways under the taxiway ala DTW McNamara, was easy enough. Nice that the new concourses are nice and wide, makes it much easier to navigate without people lining up for boarding spilling into the walkways as was common in the old terminal.

The car rental is still super easy to get to and out onto I-80.

Nice job SLC Airport Authority!
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 897
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:28 am

vegasplanes wrote:
Flying WN in/out of SLC - was not horrible, compared to the "old" terminal walk from the end of "B" or "E" - whatever they re-lettered the old terminal - the new terminal has moving walkways under the taxiway ala DTW McNamara, was easy enough. Nice that the new concourses are nice and wide, makes it much easier to navigate without people lining up for boarding spilling into the walkways as was common in the old terminal.

The car rental is still super easy to get to and out onto I-80.

Nice job SLC Airport Authority!

It was F.

And, as you can tell by my signature, I'll be flying into SLC on Delta and out on Southwest in about a month. I'll report back on how it is.
Next flights:
Who knows? :/
 
CrisL
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun May 29, 2016 2:55 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:34 am

MartijnNL wrote:
1 mile / 1.6 km

That looks like a long walk for an airport. I don't think my home airport, Amsterdam Schiphol, has a walk that far. Going from the furthest gate to the railway station is for sure less than 1 mile.


Try walking from D30 to the train station. I'd swear it's much further. I've come to hate Schipol due to its absolutely awful long walks. The moving walkways on Pier D have been out of order or just not working due to drug checks for the last few years of my AMS flights.

I used to be a KL Platinum Elite but now don't even have a KL Frequent Flyer Account. I deleted it.

God awful airport now, that used to be the best in the world. Not any more.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 897
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:46 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
vegasplanes wrote:
Flying WN in/out of SLC - was not horrible, compared to the "old" terminal walk from the end of "B" or "E" - whatever they re-lettered the old terminal - the new terminal has moving walkways under the taxiway ala DTW McNamara, was easy enough. Nice that the new concourses are nice and wide, makes it much easier to navigate without people lining up for boarding spilling into the walkways as was common in the old terminal.

The car rental is still super easy to get to and out onto I-80.

Nice job SLC Airport Authority!

It was F.

And, as you can tell by my signature, I'll be flying into SLC on Delta and out on Southwest in about a month. I'll report back on how it is.


Well, here I am. I flew there on DL from STL and back on Southwest.
We arrived at the airport in a DL A220 and got Gate B4. We had to wait five minutes for a jetbridge driver.
My first impressions of the airport were that it was very nice. High ceilings, good food options. The B concourse wasn't too crowded.
The tunnel felt pretty long; despite the moving walkways, it was apparent that it had been built a decade ago. The escalators stopped randomly with people still on them.
The A concourse was jam packed. The arrivals area with the Canyon sculpture was nice however.
The bag claim area was also quite nice. At the Avis rental car area, they're still missing some features like screens (Tyvek was present).

On the way back, I flew WN. They were understaffed at check in and the area was pretty swamped. Security was pretty busy but the layout was efficient.
The airport was very busy throughout the time I was there. We got gate B18, later changed to B19.
Southwest only has 4 gates at the new SLC (I think they had 5 in the previous layout). There were some delays. A few planes had to wait upwards of 40 minutes for a gate to open. They should look into getting more gates or not squeezing as many flights out per day (and this was a Saturday).
Not SLC's fault, but we had a 2 hour mechanical delay. When I got my bags in St. Louis, they were soaking wet and smelled like death. All the bags were the same way.
Next flights:
Who knows? :/
 
B6BOSfan
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:11 am

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:47 am

I flew into/out of Salt Lake last week via JetBlue and Southwest. Arrived on a Thursday morning and flew out on a Tuesday afternoon.

I arrived at gate B15 on JetBlue. I noticed they had another plane parked out on the tarmac when we arrived.

Arrival impressions:
- Love the bigger, wider feel to the terminal and the huge windows at the gate area. The amount of seating still feels like it could be bigger, given the size of most planes. Feels like a modern DEN.
- The walk from the end of B to the baggage claim is LONG, especially when you're wheeling a carry-on and ski gear bag.
- I feel like the signage to the cross-over is somewhat muted. I also feel like the number of escalators down/up should be double what they have now, given expansion in years ahead.
- The tunnel from B to A is long, and it feels uneven. Feels like B is higher than the A side. The moving walk ways help, but it's still quite the trek.
- The main lobby area is very nice, the new baggage area is fantastic. Love the fact they have a ski/snowboard baggage area too now.
- Trek from baggage to rental car area is still super convenient, and I was from gate to vehicle in less than an hour.

Departure impressions:
- Love that Delta, United and what looks like Alaska have a special check-in area RIGHT INSIDE the rental car building.
- The main airport check-in area is slightly messy when you're returning a rental, and have to use the main building. I had to go up an escalator to the check-in level. Not fun with ski gear.
- The Southwest check-in area is just to the right of the main lobby. However, their check-in space is insanely small given the amount of flights they handle. JetBlue was right next to them, and weren't even operating! They should have flex space that other airlines can take over if needed (ala LaGuardia). The agent said she and others there weren't thrilled with the new setup, particular for their airline. She cited the long walks, and very expensive food options. "It's like an overpriced mall now," she said.
- TSA area is setup very well, and precheck got me through in 1 minute.
- The walk from TSA to Southwest's Gates (I was at B18) was very long. 14 minutes from TSA to the gate, walking briskly and using all the moving walkways. I was flat out tired in the final stretch. Imagine elderly folks trying to do that? This is a modern facility right?
- The gate area for Southwest got VERY warm when the March afternoon sun directly heated up the line-up and wait area.

I noticed that there WILL be a walkway to cross to the B side right in the main lobby area, after TSA security. However, it's blocked off for now, since there is no terminal to cross over to at this time.

I can't imagine how frustrating the bustitution system has to be for regional jet passengers, especially in bad weather.

I think this airport will be great in time, but it's abundantly apparent they rushed it open to get it open, and there will be growing pains until the second half of it is done.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10366
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Complaints coming in about the new SLC terminal

Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:26 pm

I flew in with B6 and out with UA. Loved the new terminals. The walk to/from B might be long by old SLC standards but I'm used to big airports so I didn't find it all that long. I timed it at less than 20 mins. We did not have large carry-ons because we checked 3 bags.
Loved that the distance from baggage to car rental is so short but with ski equipment we had to rent a luggage cart. As mentioned above, loved the check-in/bad drop desk in the car rental facility however UA did not have self-service kiosks. I hope they add that at some point. TSA was a breeze. Food options looked decent.
The biggest negative for the whole experience was the lack of luggage carts at the rental car drop off. They need to do something about that. It's a major ski destination and people haul large and heavy bags.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos