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CraigAnderson
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Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:28 pm

Emirates COO had recently said that 2022 was a safe assumption for delivery of its first Boeing 777X, but that's now slipped another year back to 2023.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ps-to-2023
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:41 pm

Does this mean that LH will now be the launch operator?
 
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Aquila3
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:00 pm

The 777X is a fantastic plane that has incredible advantages. If you can fill it. Ops, did someone say this already?
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:15 pm

Does the writer meaning the first 777x?

Or does they mean first 77X with premium?

my understandings is that the emirates will get a 3 class 777x in 2022.
 
NZ321
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:33 pm

Haha - I thisuspect this means that SQ is going to be first (again) and maybe even Lufthansa before EK. Not sure I'll be queuing up yet - lets wait n see for more info...
 
oschkosch
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:32 pm

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:

my understandings is that the emirates will get a 3 class 777x in 2022.



Nope, pushed back to 2023, also reported on OMAAT:

https://onemileatatime.com/emirates-777x/
Unfortunately Emirates won’t start taking delivery of its 126-strong Boeing 777X order until 2023 at the earliest. These planes were initially supposed to join Emirates’ fleet as of 2020, though that was delayed due to engine issues with the plane, and then delayed due to the pandemic.

Since Boeing was supposed to start delivering 777Xs as of 2022, this raises the question of whether production is being pushed back altogether, or if Emirates managed to get further back in the delivery queue.
 
Opus99
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:01 pm

Emirates are taking the jet in 2023. EIS is still 2022. LH, QR will be the first. Last interview Akbar said 2022. I think 4 of their frames have come out of the factory
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:41 pm

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/emi ... a380-saga/

Confirmed - first EK 777X in 2022.

Article is wrong.
 
oldJoe
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:17 pm

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
https://www.airlineratings.com/news/emirates-chief-lyrical-premium-economy-sad-a380-saga/

Confirmed - first EK 777X in 2022.

Article is wrong.


Where in your source it is confirmed fore sure that the delivery will be in 2022 ? Whishful thinking ?
And please , I`m not a natural English speacking person , but still check up before you post for grammatics like I do !
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:43 pm

oldJoe wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
https://www.airlineratings.com/news/emirates-chief-lyrical-premium-economy-sad-a380-saga/

Confirmed - first EK 777X in 2022.

Article is wrong.


Where in your source it is confirmed fore sure that the delivery will be in 2022 ? Whishful thinking ?
And please , I`m not a natural English speacking person , but still check up before you post for grammatics like I do !


Sorry, I had stroke and it affect me.

Here is quote from link

'Our original contract said December 2019 for the delivery of the first 777-9 (below), which I knew was too early, then it became June 2020, then it became 2021, now it’s June 2022'
 
morrisond
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:40 pm

This was an interesting quote "The A380 had already come in with 6.8 tons overweight and we had to live with that. We didn’t let Airbus get away with it on the A350, which was so overweight again initially that we canceled the contract for 70 aircraft."

I didn't know that (or don't remember it) - I thought everything about the A350 was perfect?
 
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zkojq
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:27 am

Boeing won't make money on the 777X.

oschkosch wrote:
Unfortunately Emirates won’t start taking delivery of its 126-strong Boeing 777X order until 2023 at the earliest.


So first it was 175 (including options). Then it was 150. Then they converted thirty to 787-9s so it was 120. I wonder how they got to 126.

Will be interesting to see how many they still have on order at the date of the first delivery.
 
marcelh
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:49 am

morrisond wrote:
This was an interesting quote "The A380 had already come in with 6.8 tons overweight and we had to live with that. We didn’t let Airbus get away with it on the A350, which was so overweight again initially that we canceled the contract for 70 aircraft."

I didn't know that (or don't remember it) - I thought everything about the A350 was perfect?

You thought wrong. It was already mentioned in 2014 and a little Google search will give you multiple articles about it.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:02 am

zkojq wrote:
Boeing won't make money on the 777X.

oschkosch wrote:
Unfortunately Emirates won’t start taking delivery of its 126-strong Boeing 777X order until 2023 at the earliest.


So first it was 175 (including options). Then it was 150. Then they converted thirty to 787-9s so it was 120. I wonder how they got to 126.

Will be interesting to see how many they still have on order at the date of the first delivery.


I thought it was 150 consisting of 115 779 and 35 778. And effectively the 35 778 were dropped making 115? 126 is a different number though.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:26 am

morrisond wrote:
This was an interesting quote "The A380 had already come in with 6.8 tons overweight and we had to live with that. We didn’t let Airbus get away with it on the A350, which was so overweight again initially that we canceled the contract for 70 aircraft."

I didn't know that (or don't remember it) - I thought everything about the A350 was perfect?

Yes, STC is doing a bit of what he accused JL of doing, baring his chest. The EK pressers of the time said the change was made after a fleet strategic review, yada yada, Seems as time passes there isn't the need to be so oblique.
 
xwb565
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:42 am

morrisond wrote:
This was an interesting quote "The A380 had already come in with 6.8 tons overweight and we had to live with that. We didn’t let Airbus get away with it on the A350, which was so overweight again initially that we canceled the contract for 70 aircraft."

I didn't know that (or don't remember it) - I thought everything about the A350 was perfect?


Whatever Airbus promised EK, it must have been different to other Airlines since even the earliest batch 2 a350-900s came in better than guarantees and the new ones are said to exceed the original nominals. The basic wing performed better than what was expected and this is now playing out as Airbus takes more weight out of the frame. It is also interesting that Clark again mentions the 777x and guarantees in the same quote since he should already know if guarantees are going to be met. There is no need to mention this if the aircraft is beating expectations as many here hope. This is the second time in a month he is talking about guarantees and the 777X. He earlier mentioned in another interview that he did not want performance PIPs at a later date and wants guarantees met from day one.
 
Antarius
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:50 am

xwb565 wrote:
since he should already know if guarantees are going to be met. There is no need to mention this if the aircraft is beating expectations as many here hope.


How would anyone know? The aircraft isn't through testing and certification.

I don't read too much into STC's statements. He's staring at having his stellar career of building EK from nothing into something result in an epilogue of too many expensive whales sitting in the desert. He boxed them into a corner and is desperately pointing fingers on his way out.
 
xwb565
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:01 am

Antarius wrote:
xwb565 wrote:
since he should already know if guarantees are going to be met. There is no need to mention this if the aircraft is beating expectations as many here hope.


How would anyone know? The aircraft isn't through testing and certification.

I don't read too much into STC's statements. He's staring at having his stellar career of building EK from nothing into something result in an epilogue of too many expensive whales sitting in the desert. He boxed them into a corner and is desperately pointing fingers on his way out.


Every customer is aware of the airframe weight and drag schedules from very early on in the flight test program of any aircraft. He has made two pointed references to the 777x and guarantees in the past month. He clearly says the delay suits every one and follows up with a very specific reference to the aircraft needing to deliver from day one at EK.
 
VV
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:03 am

xwb565 wrote:
...
Every customer is aware of the airframe weight and drag schedules from very early on in the flight test program of any aircraft. He has made two pointed references to the 777x and guarantees in the past month. He clearly says the delay suits every one and follows up with a very specific reference to the aircraft needing to deliver from day one at EK.


No.

No one really knows what the actual drag of an aircraft is.

The only thing known is the estimate of the drag based on the engine thrust model and the flight test. I do not think there is any way to measure the drag directly, let alone giving that information to "every customer".
 
xwb565
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:24 am

VV wrote:
xwb565 wrote:
...
Every customer is aware of the airframe weight and drag schedules from very early on in the flight test program of any aircraft. He has made two pointed references to the 777x and guarantees in the past month. He clearly says the delay suits every one and follows up with a very specific reference to the aircraft needing to deliver from day one at EK.


No.

No one really knows what the actual drag of an aircraft is.

The only thing known is the estimate of the drag based on the engine thrust model and the flight test. I do not think there is any way to measure the drag directly, let alone giving that information to "every customer".



Perhaps I used the wrong terminology but there is a weight and aerodynamic number(apart from engine sfc) based upon which guarantees and nominals were given to the customer. These raw numbers are certainly fed to the customers from the test program. For example the a380 customers knew very very early in the flight test period that all performance numbers will be bettered despite the aircraft's weight.
 
Opus99
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:24 am

xwb565 wrote:
morrisond wrote:
This was an interesting quote "The A380 had already come in with 6.8 tons overweight and we had to live with that. We didn’t let Airbus get away with it on the A350, which was so overweight again initially that we canceled the contract for 70 aircraft."

I didn't know that (or don't remember it) - I thought everything about the A350 was perfect?


Whatever Airbus promised EK, it must have been different to other Airlines since even the earliest batch 2 a350-900s came in better than guarantees and the new ones are said to exceed the original nominals. The basic wing performed better than what was expected and this is now playing out as Airbus takes more weight out of the frame. It is also interesting that Clark again mentions the 777x and guarantees in the same quote since he should already know if guarantees are going to be met. There is no need to mention this if the aircraft is beating expectations as many here hope. This is the second time in a month he is talking about guarantees and the 777X. He earlier mentioned in another interview that he did not want performance PIPs at a later date and wants guarantees met from day one.

Because he’s flexing whatever muscle he has. Akbar has said the aircraft is “very good” in his own terms. This SAME STC said the 777X “will be a brilliant airliner and an elegant replacement for the 300ER” over the summer. So please. He probably has to swallow something he doesn’t want to regarding the negotiations over the jet and now he’s kicking a fuss. AND actually. He said “I am not interested in (fuel) improvement packages or later mods (modifications) and I insist on the engines being fully stressed in Dubai summer conditions”

He is insisting on a perfect engine on arrival? Seriously? Like in this industry what engine has been perfect on arrival?

We have not heard any details about the 787 and 777X switch. Maybe it did not reach a level they desired? Now he’s huffing and puffing. To be honest. He won’t be here when the jet arrives. So let’s wait and see
 
Opus99
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:24 am

xwb565 wrote:
VV wrote:
xwb565 wrote:
...
Every customer is aware of the airframe weight and drag schedules from very early on in the flight test program of any aircraft. He has made two pointed references to the 777x and guarantees in the past month. He clearly says the delay suits every one and follows up with a very specific reference to the aircraft needing to deliver from day one at EK.


No.

No one really knows what the actual drag of an aircraft is.

The only thing known is the estimate of the drag based on the engine thrust model and the flight test. I do not think there is any way to measure the drag directly, let alone giving that information to "every customer".



Perhaps I used the wrong terminology but there is a weight and aerodynamic number(apart from engine sfc) based upon which guarantees and nominals were given to the customer. These raw numbers are certainly fed to the customers from the test program. For example the a380 customers knew very very early in the flight test period that all performance numbers will be bettered despite the aircraft's weight.

Clearly still didn’t do much for said aircraft
 
oschkosch
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:31 am

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
https://www.airlineratings.com/news/emirates-chief-lyrical-premium-economy-sad-a380-saga/

Confirmed - first EK 777X in 2022.

Article is wrong.



Nope sorry! It will not happen before 2023:
https://www.aerotime.aero/26825-Emirate ... oeing-777X
Emirates airline announced the delay of the delivery of its first Boeing 777X aircraft. The airline expects to add the jet only in 2023, three years later than originally anticipated.
Initially, the first Boeing 777X was expected to be delivered to Emirates by summer 2020 and was supposed to introduce Premium Economy Cabin, the newest product of the airline. However, the air carrier was forced to change its plans as the 777X remains in development. The airline initially ordered 150 Boeing 777X aircraft for its non-stop long-haul operations in 2013. The order, which included 35 Boeing 777-8 and 115 Boeing 777-9 jets, worth a total of $83 billion, became the largest single aircraft order by cost in commercial aviation history at the time.

https://aeronauticsonline.com/emirates- ... eliveries/
Emirates (EK / UAE) has announced that it will defer deliveries of Boeing 777X until 2023, a further one-year over the previous scheduled delivery time in 2022. This is the second time the carrier has seen its 777X delivery date pushed to a later year.
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:34 am

oschkosch wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
https://www.airlineratings.com/news/emirates-chief-lyrical-premium-economy-sad-a380-saga/

Confirmed - first EK 777X in 2022.

Article is wrong.



Nope sorry! It will not happen before 2023:
https://www.aerotime.aero/26825-Emirate ... oeing-777X
Emirates airline announced the delay of the delivery of its first Boeing 777X aircraft. The airline expects to add the jet only in 2023, three years later than originally anticipated.
Initially, the first Boeing 777X was expected to be delivered to Emirates by summer 2020 and was supposed to introduce Premium Economy Cabin, the newest product of the airline. However, the air carrier was forced to change its plans as the 777X remains in development. The airline initially ordered 150 Boeing 777X aircraft for its non-stop long-haul operations in 2013. The order, which included 35 Boeing 777-8 and 115 Boeing 777-9 jets, worth a total of $83 billion, became the largest single aircraft order by cost in commercial aviation history at the time.

https://aeronauticsonline.com/emirates- ... eliveries/
Emirates (EK / UAE) has announced that it will defer deliveries of Boeing 777X until 2023, a further one-year over the previous scheduled delivery time in 2022. This is the second time the carrier has seen its 777X delivery date pushed to a later year.


Read airline rating interview. As posted earlier:

Sir time clearlys says:

'Our original contract said December 2019 for the delivery of the first 777-9 (below), which I knew was too early, then it became June 2020, then it became 2021, now it’s June 2022'.

Airlinerating is a good site and this is direct quote from sir Tim.
 
VV
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:57 pm

xwb565 wrote:
VV wrote:
...
No.

No one really knows what the actual drag of an aircraft is.

The only thing known is the estimate of the drag based on the engine thrust model and the flight test. I do not think there is any way to measure the drag directly, let alone giving that information to "every customer".



Perhaps I used the wrong terminology but there is a weight and aerodynamic number(apart from engine sfc) based upon which guarantees and nominals were given to the customer. These raw numbers are certainly fed to the customers from the test program. For example the a380 customers knew very very early in the flight test period that all performance numbers will be bettered despite the aircraft's weight.


Not. It is still not right.
No one is really interested by the aerodynamic number excepted the aircraft manufacturer.
 
VV
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:36 pm

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
...
Sir time clearlys says:

'Our original contract said December 2019 for the delivery of the first 777-9 (below), which I knew was too early, then it became June 2020, then it became 2021, now it’s June 2022'.

Airlinerating is a good site and this is direct quote from sir Tim.


Well, with him everything is possible.

Remember the A350 deal? On, off and then on again on completely different fleet. Same as the "deal" on the 787-10.
Oh yes, I almost forgot the A380 too.
 
Antarius
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:58 pm

VV wrote:
xwb565 wrote:
VV wrote:
...
No.

No one really knows what the actual drag of an aircraft is.

The only thing known is the estimate of the drag based on the engine thrust model and the flight test. I do not think there is any way to measure the drag directly, let alone giving that information to "every customer".



Perhaps I used the wrong terminology but there is a weight and aerodynamic number(apart from engine sfc) based upon which guarantees and nominals were given to the customer. These raw numbers are certainly fed to the customers from the test program. For example the a380 customers knew very very early in the flight test period that all performance numbers will be bettered despite the aircraft's weight.


Not. It is still not right.
No one is really interested by the aerodynamic number excepted the aircraft manufacturer.


Not to mention engine SFC is crucial to the overall performance of the aircraft. If all this was known ahead of time, then why would manufacturers build aircraft that aren't perfectly above spec? Time will tell.

To an earlier point by xwb565, its not that people are hoping the 777X exceeds expectations. Its recognizing that if it doesn't, its dead.
 
smartplane
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:32 pm

Opus99 wrote:
xwb565 wrote:
Whatever Airbus promised EK, it must have been different to other Airlines since even the earliest batch 2 a350-900s came in better than guarantees and the new ones are said to exceed the original nominals. The basic wing performed better than what was expected and this is now playing out as Airbus takes more weight out of the frame. It is also interesting that Clark again mentions the 777x and guarantees in the same quote since he should already know if guarantees are going to be met. There is no need to mention this if the aircraft is beating expectations as many here hope. This is the second time in a month he is talking about guarantees and the 777X. He earlier mentioned in another interview that he did not want performance PIPs at a later date and wants guarantees met from day one.

Because he’s flexing whatever muscle he has. Akbar has said the aircraft is “very good” in his own terms. This SAME STC said the 777X “will be a brilliant airliner and an elegant replacement for the 300ER” over the summer. So please. He probably has to swallow something he doesn’t want to regarding the negotiations over the jet and now he’s kicking a fuss. AND actually. He said “I am not interested in (fuel) improvement packages or later mods (modifications) and I insist on the engines being fully stressed in Dubai summer conditions”

He is insisting on a perfect engine on arrival? Seriously? Like in this industry what engine has been perfect on arrival?

We have not heard any details about the 787 and 777X switch. Maybe it did not reach a level they desired? Now he’s huffing and puffing. To be honest. He won’t be here when the jet arrives. So let’s wait and see

The commercial aviation industry has changed.

Never have financiers been as proactively involved in agreeing all aspects of aircraft terms and conditions. Previously, the customer selected the aircraft, and financiers offered financial choices, and pricing. Even lessors used to be of the mindset, if you the customer is satisfied, so are we.

The change started with WB aircraft, when engine OEM's offered cradle to grave maintenance contracts, which quickly became the gold standard to attract competitive finance.

Then we had engine issues on the 787 which resulted in industry scrutiny of T&C's and penalties.

Then engine issues on the A320, both brands, both performance and maintenance, which triggered NB financier scrutiny (and requirements) of OEM maintenance and performance guarantees, to their satisfaction.

Then the MAX, which has still to play out financially.

And the WB market transformation, which was impacting on financiers ability and willingness to fund large WB aircraft, before Covid, has now decimated demand, with the only lukewarm interest at the new small and mid-size end of the market.

The writing was on the wall with later A380 deals, where OEM's and customers were only part funding acquisition, with customers making upfront bulk reductions, and / or guaranteeing equity at the back. Similar for the 748, where Boeing took a different approach, funding most sales themselves, and then trying to drip feed back into the market, packaged in portfolios with 787 and 737's.

With so many OEM created delays, no airline will be financially on the hook for X deliveries by now, unless they have specifically agreed to, and been financially induced to do so by Boeing.

Those customers 'hooked' will be on Max style contracts, where retrospective credits grow until Boeing firms delivery dates, at which point they start to diminish if customers push back. But those on unconditional Max style contracts, are likely only firm for 1 or maybe 2 tranches, a fraction of total orders.

Boeing will have to finance the majority of X sales for the foreseeable future. Do they have the capacity or willingness? Will shareholders want the company so disproportionately exposed to one model? Will financing X construction, sales and operations consume too much capital otherwise available for new models?

Financiers will want Boeing less active in the finance market, instead offering them residual guarantees diminishing progressively at different chronological, hours and cycles, which both A & B have offered selectively in the past.

The problem for Boeing, is it's never cheaper for customers to get out of an order before the first aircraft has been delivered. And even cheaper if the OEM has self-induced delays, and / or under performance issues, which could even result in customers cancelling orders and seeking damages (though the latter not likely in a duopoly).

Retrospective credits don't accrue in a straight line, but are back end heavy, encouraging customers not to bail out of contracts part way through, so they keep turning conditional tranches to unconditional. This is partly why we are seeing some A350 and 787 customers continuing to accept deliveries.

If Boeing flatten, or even balloon the retrospective credit line up front, it will encourage initial take up, but reduce the likelihood of later tranches turning unconditional

Ignoring motivation, STC is being a good customer. Good customers ensure higher quality production standards, from which all customers benefit. Good customers protect financier and shareholder interests, by ensuring OEM's provide 'hard' promises backed up by meaningful, enforceable penalties, including refusing to make withheld payments (final milestone payment). Good customers follow through like EK & SQ on some A380's, LH 748i.............
 
oschkosch
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:29 am

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
oschkosch wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
https://www.airlineratings.com/news/emirates-chief-lyrical-premium-economy-sad-a380-saga/

Confirmed - first EK 777X in 2022.

Article is wrong.



Nope sorry! It will not happen before 2023:
https://www.aerotime.aero/26825-Emirate ... oeing-777X
Emirates airline announced the delay of the delivery of its first Boeing 777X aircraft. The airline expects to add the jet only in 2023, three years later than originally anticipated.
Initially, the first Boeing 777X was expected to be delivered to Emirates by summer 2020 and was supposed to introduce Premium Economy Cabin, the newest product of the airline. However, the air carrier was forced to change its plans as the 777X remains in development. The airline initially ordered 150 Boeing 777X aircraft for its non-stop long-haul operations in 2013. The order, which included 35 Boeing 777-8 and 115 Boeing 777-9 jets, worth a total of $83 billion, became the largest single aircraft order by cost in commercial aviation history at the time.

https://aeronauticsonline.com/emirates- ... eliveries/
Emirates (EK / UAE) has announced that it will defer deliveries of Boeing 777X until 2023, a further one-year over the previous scheduled delivery time in 2022. This is the second time the carrier has seen its 777X delivery date pushed to a later year.


Read airline rating interview. As posted earlier:

Sir time clearlys says:

'Our original contract said December 2019 for the delivery of the first 777-9 (below), which I knew was too early, then it became June 2020, then it became 2021, now it’s June 2022'.

Airlinerating is a good site and this is direct quote from sir Tim.



yeah well, ofc I read that interview. It just "slightly" contradicts to what EK officially annouces:
https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... ll-cabins/
The airline received its newest A380 aircraft from Airbus’ Hamburg facility last week, and its remaining order of 5 A380s will also be delivered with premium economy cabins over 2021 and 2022. Emirates’ premium economy seats will also be installed on some of its Boeing 777X aircraft which are only due to join the fleet in 2023. Emirates is considering plans to retrofit its existing A380 fleet.
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:52 pm

My dear friend

The ek news release talks about induction of PE-equipped 7779s. They are coming in 2023.

The 3-class jets arrive in summer 2022.

Hope that clear any of the confusions.

Happiying the new year to all.
 
carlokiii
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:03 am

Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:01 pm

oschkosch wrote:


yeah well, ofc I read that interview. It just "slightly" contradicts to what EK officially annouces:
https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... ll-cabins/
The airline received its newest A380 aircraft from Airbus’ Hamburg facility last week, and its remaining order of 5 A380s will also be delivered with premium economy cabins over 2021 and 2022. Emirates’ premium economy seats will also be installed on some of its Boeing 777X aircraft which are only due to join the fleet in 2023. Emirates is considering plans to retrofit its existing A380 fleet.


This doesn’t necessarily confirm the 777X will not join the Emirates fleet before 2023 either... the underlined may just mean that the 777X installed with W seats are to join in 2023, as only “some” 777X will come with them.
 
VV
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:51 pm

Everyone knows he can change his mind anytime, right?
 
oschkosch
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:57 pm

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
My dear friend

The ek news release talks about induction of PE-equipped 7779s. They are coming in 2023.

The 3-class jets arrive in summer 2022.

Hope that clear any of the confusions.

Happiying the new year to all.



Can you post us a link that clearly shows that EK has decided to set up the new 777x with a mix of 4 class and 3 class cabins?
 
Opus99
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:30 pm

oschkosch wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
My dear friend

The ek news release talks about induction of PE-equipped 7779s. They are coming in 2023.

The 3-class jets arrive in summer 2022.

Hope that clear any of the confusions.

Happiying the new year to all.



Can you post us a link that clearly shows that EK has decided to set up the new 777x with a mix of 4 class and 3 class cabins?

Besides official confirmation Emirates frames have come out with 4 doors and 5 doors. I believe the 5 doors are even two class or so
 
Antarius
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:47 pm

VV wrote:
Everyone knows he can change his mind anytime, right?


And a PR master.

Anyone who can claim "industry leading" and "enhancing experience" while flying a large fleet of 2-3-2 J is full of shit.

But yes, I can't tell from that sentence. It's very oddly worded. Is it that W is only being installed on some 779 coming in 2023 or the 779 is only coming in 2023 and W will be installed on all of them?
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:57 pm

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
My dear friend

The ek news release talks about induction of PE-equipped 7779s. They are coming in 2023.

The 3-class jets arrive in summer 2022.

Hope that clear any of the confusions.

Happiying the new year to all.


It says premium economy will be installed on some 777X aircraft only to join the fleet from 2023, reading between the lines to me that says and I would have thought the first aircraft will have W and be 4 class, no mention of 3 class or 2 class but some only some will have W. Up to now EK don’t use 2 class 77W and A380 Long haul, so I think it maybe 4 class and 2 class. You would think the first ones would have W given it’s going to be a bit of a slow roll out.
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:19 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
My dear friend

The ek news release talks about induction of PE-equipped 7779s. They are coming in 2023.

The 3-class jets arrive in summer 2022.

Hope that clear any of the confusions.

Happiying the new year to all.


It says premium economy will be installed on some 777X aircraft only to join the fleet from 2023, reading between the lines to me that says and I would have thought the first aircraft will have W and be 4 class, no mention of 3 class or 2 class but some only some will have W. Up to now EK don’t use 2 class 77W and A380 Long haul, so I think it maybe 4 class and 2 class. You would think the first ones would have W given it’s going to be a bit of a slow roll out.


Please look the pictures on Twitter's of of the first few EK 77X. Many have 4 door each side.

These are 3 class.

:)

Premium not arriving till 2023 as the pressed releases says.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:30 pm

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
My dear friend

The ek news release talks about induction of PE-equipped 7779s. They are coming in 2023.

The 3-class jets arrive in summer 2022.

Hope that clear any of the confusions.

Happiying the new year to all.


It says premium economy will be installed on some 777X aircraft only to join the fleet from 2023, reading between the lines to me that says and I would have thought the first aircraft will have W and be 4 class, no mention of 3 class or 2 class but some only some will have W. Up to now EK don’t use 2 class 77W and A380 Long haul, so I think it maybe 4 class and 2 class. You would think the first ones would have W given it’s going to be a bit of a slow roll out.


Please look the pictures on Twitter's of of the first few EK 77X. Many have 4 door each side.

These are 3 class.

:)

Premium not arriving till 2023 as the pressed releases says.


Curious is it normal for an airline to take the same type of aircraft with a different door configuration? In case of a reconfiguration later this would complicate things, yes?

I get that EK typically don’t reconfigure aircraft.

Have EK done this on the 77W or A380?
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:16 pm

It more to do with element that 77x comes with different door config.

This is not available on 77W for example. Or 380.
 
oschkosch
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:34 pm

so does anyone have the official EK press release stating that they will be mixing the 777x with 3 and 4 class cabin configurations? I have yet to find it.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:51 pm

oschkosch wrote:
so does anyone have the official EK press release stating that they will be mixing the 777x with 3 and 4 class cabin configurations? I have yet to find it.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk


No press releases until the jets enter service.

Only need to see Twitter pics by Mr Matt cawby and others to see diff door configs of Emirates 777X's.

Hope that helpings
 
oschkosch
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:13 pm

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
oschkosch wrote:
so does anyone have the official EK press release stating that they will be mixing the 777x with 3 and 4 class cabin configurations? I have yet to find it.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk


No press releases until the jets enter service.

Only need to see Twitter pics by Mr Matt cawby and others to see diff door configs of Emirates 777X's.

Hope that helpings



Honestly? No, that does not help. It only proves that what you are saying is pure speculation currently.
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:26 pm

oschkosch wrote:
FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
oschkosch wrote:
so does anyone have the official EK press release stating that they will be mixing the 777x with 3 and 4 class cabin configurations? I have yet to find it.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk


No press releases until the jets enter service.

Only need to see Twitter pics by Mr Matt cawby and others to see diff door configs of Emirates 777X's.

Hope that helpings



Honestly? No, that does not help. It only proves that what you are saying is pure speculation currently.



How can be the speculations when the 777x built already have different door config??

not my fault you're not int the know. I tried to point ins the rights directions.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:42 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Boeing won't make money on the 777X.

oschkosch wrote:


So first it was 175 (including options). Then it was 150. Then they converted thirty to 787-9s so it was 120. I wonder how they got to 126.

Will be interesting to see how many they still have on order at the date of the first delivery.


I thought it was 150 consisting of 115 779 and 35 778. And effectively the 35 778 were dropped making 115? 126 is a different number though.


Ah yes, I was confusing 777X orders with 777-9 orders.

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
Read airline rating interview. As posted earlier:

Sir time clearlys says:

'Our original contract said December 2019 for the delivery of the first 777-9 (below), which I knew was too early, then it became June 2020, then it became 2021, now it’s June 2022'.

Airlinerating is a good site and this is direct quote from sir Tim.


And Executive Traveller - a far better source than airlineratings - says reasonably clearly that it's 2023.

Emirates will now be waiting ever longer for its new Boeing 777X flagship, with the airline indicating that 2023 is the new delivery date for Boeing's much- delayed jetliner.


Emirates President Sir Tim Clark has voiced his frustration at a series of pushbacks by Boeing, saying in November 2020 "I have no idea” about the delivery schedule.

“They were due to be delivered this year in June, then it was 2021, then it was 2022. It hasn’t finished its certification program yet, both airframe and engine.”


In July 2020, Emirates chief operating officer Adel Al Redha said that based on discussion with Boeing “I don’t see that they will be able to deliver the aircraft in 2021,” adding that “I think 2022 is a safe assumption to make.”

However, in announcing its new premium economy offering which will take wing on the Airbus A380 from early 2021, Emirates added that premium economy "will also be installed on some of its Boeing 777X aircraft which are only due to join the fleet in 2023."


You could even say that Sir Tim's comment implicitly suggesting that it could be later.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ps-to-2023

The airline says that premium economy will also be installed on some of its new Boeing 777X jetliners, which are due from 2023, while it is "considering plans to retrofit its existing A380 fleet."


If they were saying that it was a subfleet that was due from 2023 they would have said so. Or they would have said something along the lines of "The airline says that premium economy will also be installed on some of the 2023 deliveries of their new Boeing 777X jetliners, while it is "considering plans to retrofit its existing A380 fleet."

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... nomy-seats
 
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zkojq
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:44 am

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
oschkosch wrote:
so does anyone have the official EK press release stating that they will be mixing the 777x with 3 and 4 class cabin configurations? I have yet to find it.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G950F mit Tapatalk


No press releases until the jets enter service.


What? Every airline goes on the PR offensive well prior to a new type's EIS where they outline the new aircraft's configuration, seats, launch routes, environmental credentials & technological innovations etc.
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:37 am

zkojq wrote:

And Executive Traveller - a far better source than airlineratings - says reasonably clearly that it's 2023.



Airline reating - quote direct from the sir tim says 2022.

Exec traveler - snip partial quote from press release.

Everyone free to see believe what they wish.

zkojq wrote:

What? Every airline goes on the PR offensive well prior to a new type's EIS where they outline the new aircraft's configuration, seats, launch routes, environmental credentials & technological innovations etc.


If true, can the show me the SQ NH LH CX etc press released on their Lopa or layoutings??

And as I said befores, images of different door count on 777x's already made prove my point. Too bad when people can't accept the reality because it's there in the balck and the white to see.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:59 am

FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
zkojq wrote:

And Executive Traveller - a far better source than airlineratings - says reasonably clearly that it's 2023.



Airline reating - quote direct from the sir tim says 2022.

Exec traveler - snip partial quote from press release.

Everyone free to see believe what they wish.

zkojq wrote:

What? Every airline goes on the PR offensive well prior to a new type's EIS where they outline the new aircraft's configuration, seats, launch routes, environmental credentials & technological innovations etc.


If true, can the show me the SQ NH LH CX etc press released on their Lopa or layoutings??

And as I said befores, images of different door count on 777x's already made prove my point. Too bad when people can't accept the reality because it's there in the balck and the white to see.


The 77X doesn’t enter service till 2022 at any airline, it’s a wee bit early and airlines are more worried about survival at the moment. SQ will have some new F product, NH likely will aswell, CX are deferred till 2025, not sure about LH, no F and initial plan was to replace the 744s remaining, who knows now.

Different door counts don’t prove anything without a source, are you sure what you are seeing are all EK aircraft? TBH I would have thought EK would take 4 class 779s first, you are saying they will take some with F, J, Y? I would say EK will take 4 class and 2 class ones, maybe some with J, W, Y?
 
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reidar76
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:39 am

Can we conclude that the first 777-9 will enter service in about two years time? Give or take a few months.

From all the sources quoted in this tread, the time frame for service entry could be late 2022 or early 2023, both for the four door pairs and five door pairs variants.

I will not be surprised if there would be a further delay. The certification process might not go as Boeing expects. Maybe EASA will conduct a full review and demand that the 777-9 must be certified as new aircraft type. With grandfathering out the window, I would reckon Boeing would have to redesign several parts of the 777-9, thereby delaying service entry. Since all airlines that have the 777-9 on order plans to operate these in EU airspace, the EASAs decision will be important.
Last edited by reidar76 on Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:41 am

ZK-NBT wrote:

Different door counts don’t prove anything without a source, are you sure what you are seeing are all EK aircraft?


Well, pics are there freely to be the seen. Not sure I cam add anything else's since.

The actual interview with Mr Clark with airline Ratings is clear. EIS 2022.

If anyone has Mr Tim sayin different in last 2 weeks, bring forth. I'm out.
 
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Polot
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Re: Emirates first Boeing 777X pushed back to 2023

Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:06 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
Different door counts don’t prove anything without a source, are you sure what you are seeing are all EK aircraft? TBH I would have thought EK would take 4 class 779s first, you are saying they will take some with F, J, Y? I would say EK will take 4 class and 2 class ones, maybe some with J, W, Y?

Well they do have EK’s flag logo on the winglets, and you can see the basic tail livery:



Nothing is technically confirmed, but the fact that we are seeing EK taking some planes with the optional 5th door and some without does point to different seating configurations...

It’s entirely possible the initial 779s won’t have W. We don’t know what the 779 W seat will be (EK has only shown A380’s, it may have to be modified to fit in 777) and when the seats will be ready and delivered for installation. EK may have already ordered the seats/cabin fittings for the first 779s without W and too late to modify now. Especially since delivery was initially anticipated to be sometime in 2020.

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