Nordic Aviation 2021

Someone83 · Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:11 am

Two more 737-800s left the SAS fleet this week

From Skyliner:

Boeing 737 -86N 38037 4376 LN-RGE SAS ferried 12oct21 OSL-SNN on return to lessor
Boeing 737 -86N 38039 4469 LN-RGG SAS ferried 11oct21 OSL-DUB, all white on return to lessor

vfw614 · Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:26 am

Time really flies. I remember how I managed to get a flight on one of the last DC9-41s from MMX to ARN, returning the next day on what was then a brand new fleet member, a Boeing 737-800. More than two decades ago.

QuawerAir · Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:35 am

Finnair adds flights to Japan in S22:

Fukuoka resumes on 26 Apr 2022
Sapporo on 27 Apr 2022
Osaka increases to 14 weekly (which is more than in S19)

Finnair on Twitter

teme82 · Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:45 am

QuawerAir wrote:
Finnair adds flights to Japan in S22:

Fukuoka resumes on 26 Apr 2022
Sapporo on 27 Apr 2022
Osaka increases to 14 weekly (which is more than in S19)

Finnair on Twitter

About time. But no confirmation when Japan opens it's borders.

minilinde · Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:56 am

vfw614 wrote:
SASViking wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
I am surprised that AAL is on top, considering that distances between cities are short in Denmark..Isn't train a better alternative to travel to AAR,AAL, BLL from CPH?

BLL (the catchment area not Billund itself) and AAR yes. The rest? Not really. Due to the geography all trains going to Jutland from Copenhagen need to take a detour across the Great Belt link. The fastest travel time by train between Copenhagen and Aalborg is 4 hours and 23 minutes.

Nevertheless, many domestic routes have disappeared since the Great Belt bridge / tunnel opened - from the top of my head, Vojens, Esbjerg, Thisted, Stauning, Skive, Sindal, Odense (admittedly Skive and Sindal did not have a long history of CPH services). And Karup is also a shadow of its formel self. I guess the problem of AAR is also its location far away from the city that makes the train even more competitive.

CPHAAR: SK currently operates 4 daily (on weekdays), and will increase to 5 daily from November. So there is a demand for CPHAAR.

Oykie · Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:06 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
Flyr has ordered 6 brand new 737-8 for leasing through ALC, with an option of 4 more.

In Norwegian:

https://frequentflyer.no/2021/10/12/fly ... ra-boeing/

This is good news! I look forward to fly and have been dissapointed that Norwegian are not flying them anylonger.

Oykie · Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:07 pm

Oykie wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
Flyr has ordered 6 brand new 737-8 for leasing through ALC, with an option of 4 more.

In Norwegian:

https://frequentflyer.no/2021/10/12/fly ... ra-boeing/

This is good news! I look forward to fly the 737MAX and it will be easier in Scandinavia now, after Norwegian stopped flying them.

vfw614 · Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:20 pm

minilinde wrote:
vfw614 wrote:
SASViking wrote:
BLL (the catchment area not Billund itself) and AAR yes. The rest? Not really. Due to the geography all trains going to Jutland from Copenhagen need to take a detour across the Great Belt link. The fastest travel time by train between Copenhagen and Aalborg is 4 hours and 23 minutes.

Nevertheless, many domestic routes have disappeared since the Great Belt bridge / tunnel opened - from the top of my head, Vojens, Esbjerg, Thisted, Stauning, Skive, Sindal, Odense (admittedly Skive and Sindal did not have a long history of CPH services). And Karup is also a shadow of its formel self. I guess the problem of AAR is also its location far away from the city that makes the train even more competitive.

CPHAAR: SK currently operates 4 daily (on weekdays), and will increase to 5 daily from November. So there is a demand for CPHAAR.

I did not dispute that. But immediately before the Great Belt bridge opened, there were up 20 daily flights between CPH and AAR. CPH - AAL never had this kind of capacity/frequency.

davidjohnson6 · Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:37 pm

Isavia in Iceland wants to encourage airlines to fly internationally to/from Akureryi and Egilsstadir, instead of just Keflavik
Article (in German) - https://www.aerotelegraph.com/island-wi ... gilsstadir
Article (in French) - https://www.air-journal.fr/2021-10-13-i ... 30987.html
I think the number of possible airlines is limited, but maybe Icelandair (via Air Iceland Connect), Wideroe or Wizzair could be interested. Otherwise, probably just leisure charters

factsonly · Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:51 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Isavia in Iceland wants to encourage airlines to fly internationally to/from AEY and Egilsstadir, instead of just Keflavik
Article (in German) - https://www.aerotelegraph.com/island-wi ... gilsstadir
Article (in French) - https://www.air-journal.fr/2021-10-13-i ... 30987.html
I think the number of possible airlines is limited, but maybe Icelandair (via Air Iceland Connect), Wideroe or Wizzair could be interested. Otherwise, probably just leisure charters

In 2019 Transavia successfully launched RTM-AEY for the summer season and AMS-AEY for the winter season in cooperation with Voigt Travel, a Travel Agency focussed on Nordic destinations.

Flights are again available for 2022.

https://corporate.transavia.com/en-NL/n ... is-summer/

Here is a winter approach into AEY from the cockpit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOEK4pcfji0

MareBorealis · Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:30 am

QuawerAir wrote:
Finnair adds flights to Japan in S22:

Fukuoka resumes on 26 Apr 2022
Sapporo on 27 Apr 2022
Osaka increases to 14 weekly (which is more than in S19)

Finnair on Twitter

Good news, hopefully that works ok for AY. Japan has been their 2nd market after Finland.

Tokyo S22 looks like 21 weekly altogether:

NRT 7 weekly
HND 7 weekly

+JL codeshare HND 7 weekly

KIX 14 weekly
FUK 3 weekly
CTS 2 weekly

a350lover · Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:58 am

MareBorealis wrote:
QuawerAir wrote:
Finnair adds flights to Japan in S22:

Fukuoka resumes on 26 Apr 2022
Sapporo on 27 Apr 2022
Osaka increases to 14 weekly (which is more than in S19)

Finnair on Twitter

Good news, hopefully that works ok for AY. Japan has been their 2nd market after Finland.

Tokyo S22 looks like 21 weekly altogether:

NRT 7 weekly
HND 7 weekly

+JL codeshare HND 7 weekly

KIX 14 weekly
FUK 3 weekly
CTS 2 weekly

What are the chances countries in Asia like Japan reopen before S22 so that all this capacity makes sense? If no tourism, I don’t see AY flying all these routes to Japan honestly, and I see Asia as the slowest region in border reopening...

minilinde · Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:13 pm

United will launch EWR-BGO 3 weekly from 20MAY22, operated by 757-200.

Source:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... utes-2022/

Someone83 · Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:02 pm

Flyr has announced removal of the mandated use of face masks onboard their aircraft

minilinde · Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:37 am

Someone83 wrote:
Flyr has announced removal of the mandated use of face masks onboard their aircraft

SAS, Norwegian and Flyr has now removed mandatory facemasks

Someone83 · Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:45 am

minilinde wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Flyr has announced removal of the mandated use of face masks onboard their aircraft

SAS, Norwegian and Flyr has now removed mandatory facemasks

And Widerøe

But note for all except Flyr (i Think) it is still mandated on routes outside Scandinavia

Blerg · Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:52 am

minilinde wrote:
United will launch EWR-BGO 3 weekly from 20MAY22, operated by 757-200.

Source:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... utes-2022/

Didn't someone operate this route in the past? I seem to remember there being someone. I don't think FI will be too happy about this.

TexasAirCorp · Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:56 am

Blerg wrote:
minilinde wrote:
United will launch EWR-BGO 3 weekly from 20MAY22, operated by 757-200.

Source:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... utes-2022/

Didn't someone operate this route in the past? I seem to remember there being someone. I don't think FI will be too happy about this.

NAX operated BGO-JFK for a bit, then it moved to SWF for one season then got axed.

EightyFour · Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:57 am

Blerg wrote:
minilinde wrote:
United will launch EWR-BGO 3 weekly from 20MAY22, operated by 757-200.

Source:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... utes-2022/

Didn't someone operate this route in the past? I seem to remember there being someone. I don't think FI will be too happy about this.

Norwegian flew BGO - SWF in 2017 and I think 2018.

Blerg · Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:23 am

Thank you. I suppose they flew this with the B787 or could their 737 make it?

EightyFour · Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:28 am

Blerg wrote:
Thank you. I suppose they flew this with the B787 or could their 737 make it?

737-800 with blocked seats to SWF, don't know if they put the MAX-8 on there before canceling the route or before the grounding. JFK was on the 787.

Blerg · Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:49 am

EightyFour wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Thank you. I suppose they flew this with the B787 or could their 737 make it?

737-800 with blocked seats to SWF, don't know if they put the MAX-8 on there before canceling the route or before the grounding. JFK was on the 787.

Thank you.

Someone83 · Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:39 pm

Norwegian first began BGO-JFK with 787, but only like 1x weekly. Then came the MAX on BGO-SWF (and PVD) before they used the 737-800 after the MAX grounding

Back in the old days SAS sometimes flew CPH-BGO-JFK. And even PanAm stopped by for a while on a weird routing that also involvere Glasgow and Montreal, AFAIK

Blerg · Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:01 pm

How long is the flight from Bergen to New York? It should be easily doable with the MAX so why isn't UA using it here? Could it be that they expect sufficient cargo demand to warrant a larger plane?

davidjohnson6 · Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:40 pm

About a month ago, I saw that the website for JS Aviation was indicating flights would resume in December between Joensuu and Kuopio. That web page has now disappeared and gives a 404 error when I try to look at it
Anyone know what's happening with this ? Was it just a temporary schedule from late 2020 until a proper PSO process had been followed until early 2021 ? Does the Amapola Flyg Joensuu - Helsinki PSO route mean that a Joensuu - Kuopio flight is no longer necessary ?

toga998 · Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:02 pm

Blerg wrote:
How long is the flight from Bergen to New York? It should be easily doable with the MAX so why isn't UA using it here? Could it be that they expect sufficient cargo demand to warrant a larger plane?

A flight that long will require 3 crew up front and blocking a first class seat for the pilot on rest. The pilot contract says their blocked first class seat must be recline-able to nearly 180°, and the UA B78M's first class seats don't recline nearly to that angle. Could the plane fly the route? Absolutely! Does it fit in with the particular labor contracts? Likely no. I would personally love to see the MAX stretch its wings from EWR to BGO, but not until the small nuances can be worked out.

LucaDiMontanari · Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:29 pm

toga998 wrote:
A flight that long will require 3 crew up front and blocking a first class seat for the pilot on rest.

A third crew member for a flight shy above 3000nm? Is that even 7 hours?

Or do I miss something important?

Blerg · Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:11 am

toga998 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
How long is the flight from Bergen to New York? It should be easily doable with the MAX so why isn't UA using it here? Could it be that they expect sufficient cargo demand to warrant a larger plane?

A flight that long will require 3 crew up front and blocking a first class seat for the pilot on rest. The pilot contract says their blocked first class seat must be recline-able to nearly 180°, and the UA B78M's first class seats don't recline nearly to that angle. Could the plane fly the route? Absolutely! Does it fit in with the particular labor contracts? Likely no. I would personally love to see the MAX stretch its wings from EWR to BGO, but not until the small nuances can be worked out.

Thank you for the explanation, didn't know that.

Tristarsteve · Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:25 pm

LucaDiMontanari wrote:
toga998 wrote:
A flight that long will require 3 crew up front and blocking a first class seat for the pilot on rest.

A third crew member for a flight shy above 3000nm? Is that even 7 hours?

Or do I miss something important?

FAA rules for long haul flights are much stricter than EU rules, and I expect that UA union rules are even stricter.
A European operator would fly the route with two pilots.

zkojq · Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:36 pm

Lots of SAS pilots protesting at the Norwegian Parliament about the airline trying to circumvent the rehire provisions of their redundancy agreements.

Someone83 wrote:
Two more 737-800s left the SAS fleet this week

From Skyliner:
Boeing 737 -86N 38037 4376 LN-RGE SAS ferried 12oct21 OSL-SNN on return to lessor
Boeing 737 -86N 38039 4469 LN-RGG SAS ferried 11oct21 OSL-DUB, all white on return to lessor

Only 10 737-800s left - what a shame. What's the exit schedule for the remainder of the fleet?

minilinde · Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:44 pm

zkojq wrote:
Only 10 737-800s left - what a shame. What's the exit schedule for the remainder of the fleet?

All 737’s should be out by end of summer next year

marcogr12 · Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:23 pm

They also have some 737-700s left...And some A319s..Is SAS replacing them too and keeping a homogenous fleet of A32Neos all around Scandinavia? Or would they consider the A220s to bridge the gap between the CR9s and the A320s?

SASViking · Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:59 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
They also have some 737-700s left...And some A319s..Is SAS replacing them too and keeping a homogenous fleet of A32Neos all around Scandinavia? Or would they consider the A220s to bridge the gap between the CR9s and the A320s?

There won't be any A220's anytime soon. SAS will receive E195s early next year for their new SAS Link AOC planned to operate the midsize (90-150 seater) market.
The 737-700s will leave together with the -800s.
Regarding the A319s (and A321s) I've heard rumours that SAS plans to sell them/get rid of them. Whether it's actually true or not I don't know.

seansasLCY · Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:37 am

According to their Instagram BRA will launch services from Arlanda flying to Visby from December.

Someone83 · Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:05 am

Flyr is starting BGO-ALC 1x weekly from April 2. This compliments their 1x weekly TRD-ALC and 5x weekly OSL-ALC next Summer

marcogr12 · Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:50 pm

Aegean has uploaded ATH-OSL, 2w, Mon,Fri for S22 from 10JUN

davidjohnson6 · Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:50 pm

Last year, Finnair / Norra stopped flights from Helsinki to Joensuu, Jyvaskyla, Kajaani, Kemi and Kokkola. PSOs were advertised for these routes for the period 19-Apr-2021 to 31-Dec-2021, and a combination of Amapola, DAT and Nyxair won the contracts
Does anyone know what will happen to flying on these routes from 01-Jan-2022 ? Are new PSOs going to be advertised ? Will the contracts just be extended ? Will Norra / Finnair resume flying ?
I cannot see anything about this at Traficom's website. The EU requires that airlines are given a minimum of 2 months to respond to a tender being advertised - In practice, this means a minimum of 3 months from an advertisement in the OJEU to the first flight operating

PSO documents can be found at https://www.traficom.fi/en/transport/av ... bligations

SAS A340 · Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:23 pm

Has Finnair started the longhaul traffic (A359) from ARN yet?

Strato2 · Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:41 pm

SAS A340 wrote:
Has Finnair started the longhaul traffic (A359) from ARN yet?

Yes last weekend. Two A350's flying to Thailand and US.

SAS A340 · Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:17 pm

Ok, thank you. When DY is gone, Finnair steps in. :thumbsup:

Blerg · Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:33 pm

Anyone know how the AY flights performed out of ARN?

mercure1 · Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:07 pm

SAS new CEO Abko van der Werff sees potentially viable opportunities for the carrier to return with services to sun destinations Latin America.
Abko van der Werff comes from Avianca, so obviously has some insight to Latin America.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... -markets-/

Oykie · Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:33 pm

According to Flightglobal Norwegian might end up with 737MAX after all.

https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/nor ... 13.article

Someone83 · Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:47 pm

Oykie wrote:
According to Flightglobal Norwegian might end up with 737MAX after all.

https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/nor ... 13.article

Norwegian said the same themselves a few months ago

EFHK · Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:11 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
About a month ago, I saw that the website for JS Aviation was indicating flights would resume in December between Joensuu and Kuopio. That web page has now disappeared and gives a 404 error when I try to look at it
Anyone know what's happening with this ? Was it just a temporary schedule from late 2020 until a proper PSO process had been followed until early 2021 ? Does the Amapola Flyg Joensuu - Helsinki PSO route mean that a Joensuu - Kuopio flight is no longer necessary ?

I have no concrete information about future plans, but the only point for flying this route for this small company with a Piper aircraft was to connect Joensuu with the scheduled flights running from Kuopio. There is absolutely no necessity whatsoever to run JOE-KUO flights now that the PSO service to HEL is in place.

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Last year, Finnair / Norra stopped flights from Helsinki to Joensuu, Jyvaskyla, Kajaani, Kemi and Kokkola. PSOs were advertised for these routes for the period 19-Apr-2021 to 31-Dec-2021, and a combination of Amapola, DAT and Nyxair won the contracts
Does anyone know what will happen to flying on these routes from 01-Jan-2022 ? Are new PSOs going to be advertised ? Will the contracts just be extended ? Will Norra / Finnair resume flying ?
I cannot see anything about this at Traficom's website. The EU requires that airlines are given a minimum of 2 months to respond to a tender being advertised - In practice, this means a minimum of 3 months from an advertisement in the OJEU to the first flight operating

PSO documents can be found at https://www.traficom.fi/en/transport/av ... bligations

Information so far is that the government has decided to extend the PSOs until the 14th of August 2022. The stated goal is that after that time, there would be some operator taking over the routes on a commercial basis (which could be just wishful thinking). I believe that the current contracts with operators expire at the end of this year and it remains still unclear what will happen after that, but my personal guess would be that the government will try to just extend the current contracts for a longer period of time.

MareBorealis · Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:44 am

Blerg wrote:
Anyone know how the AY flights performed out of ARN?

The first ARN-HKT flight had 135 pax, according to https://www.thephuketnews.com/finnair-b ... -81813.php

The opening seremonies in ARN: https://worldairlinenews.com/2021/10/27 ... and-miami/

Oykie · Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:44 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Oykie wrote:
According to Flightglobal Norwegian might end up with 737MAX after all.

https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/nor ... 13.article

Norwegian said the same themselves a few months ago

Do you know the details of the deal that includes 13 737-800? Will they be swapped? I guess these will be the ones already flown by Norwegian and not the ones never delivered and still stored at the factory?

seansasLCY · Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:49 pm

It’s being reported that Vueling will lease an Aer Lingus A330 and it will be used on the new Paris Orly-Stockholm route among others.

AZa346 · Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:07 pm

seansasLCY wrote:
It’s being reported that Vueling will lease an Aer Lingus A330 and it will be used on the new Paris Orly-Stockholm route among others.

Going head to head with Transavia, which recently started the same route.

Someone83 · Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:27 pm

Oykie wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Oykie wrote:
According to Flightglobal Norwegian might end up with 737MAX after all.

https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/nor ... 13.article

Norwegian said the same themselves a few months ago

Do you know the details of the deal that includes 13 737-800? Will they be swapped? I guess these will be the ones already flown by Norwegian and not the ones never delivered and still stored at the factory?

No, the only thing that is being said it that is has a possible option to swap some of these -800s into a MAX/NEO at a later stage

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