COVID-19 Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread, Q1 2021

qf789 · Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:04 am

Welcome to the COVID-19 Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread, Q1 2021. Please continue to add your comments below.

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1452529

Just a reminder to keep your posts aviation related, if you want to get political please use the Non-Aviation COVID-19 thread

Sooner787 · Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:58 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Possible a Covid-19 'vaccine passport' to be required for all air travel including international travel, within countries like the USA or regional like the EU ? https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/27/tech/cor ... index.html

I'm sure it's coming, but probably not for another 12 months or so.
They need to allow enough time for the traveling public to get " jabbed"

max999 · Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:20 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Possible a Covid-19 'vaccine passport' to be required for all air travel including international travel, within countries like the USA or regional like the EU ? https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/27/tech/cor ... index.html

I'm sure it's coming, but probably not for another 12 months or so.
They need to allow enough time for the traveling public to get " jabbed"

Some airlines and/or governments will definitely require the vaccine to board a plane.

I would not be surprised if airlines and authorities will specify the type of vaccine they require. The Pfizer vaccine has over 90% efficacy while the Oxford vaccine is in the 60's. They may want to extra assurance of the more effective vaccine.

The possibility for this kind of requirement has already been established as some governments require negative PCR tests to enter a country and they will not accept instant tests. PCR tests are nearly 100% accurate while some instant tests are only 50% accurate.

DylanHarvey · Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:06 pm

I think banning all air travel until 2023 until 100% of the world is vaccinated is a good idea.

davidjohnson6 · Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:11 pm

I think banning all air travel until 2023 will see virtually all the world's airlines go bankrupt !

LAXintl · Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:52 pm

Canada adding a requirement for air travelers to test negative for COVID-19 starting Jan. 7th.
The requirement does not eliminate the existing mandatory 14-day quarantine for arrivals.

https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SL1N2JB1RQ

smokeybandit · Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:31 pm

max999 wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Possible a Covid-19 'vaccine passport' to be required for all air travel including international travel, within countries like the USA or regional like the EU ? https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/27/tech/cor ... index.html

I'm sure it's coming, but probably not for another 12 months or so.
They need to allow enough time for the traveling public to get " jabbed"

Some airlines and/or governments will definitely require the vaccine to board a plane.

I would not be surprised if airlines and authorities will specify the type of vaccine they require. The Pfizer vaccine has over 90% efficacy while the Oxford vaccine is in the 60's. They may want to extra assurance of the more effective vaccine.

The possibility for this kind of requirement has already been established as some governments require negative PCR tests to enter a country and they will not accept instant tests. PCR tests are nearly 100% accurate while some instant tests are only 50% accurate.

The Oxford vaccine is in the 90s, also, after they adjusted the dose.

PCR tests are not "accurate" in finding virulent virus if their cycle threshold is turned up too high (which it is in America and some other European countries.) It's like looking for a live animal on the side of the road, finding roadkill, and reporting it as the live animal. That's one of my big concerns about needing a negative PCR test to do something. It can hit positive upwards of 12 weeks after exposure (source, US CDC)

dcajet · Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:45 am

After months of having some of the most relaxed entry requirements around, Brazil is now requiring a negative PCR test and health affidavit, not only for entry but for passengers on transit as well.

https://www.sirchandler.com.ar/2020/12/ ... -transito/

LAXintl · Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:24 am

South Korea adds requirements for PCR test before arrivals starting January 8th.

https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20210101002300320

Seems pretty clear that International travel will become increasingly challenging as country after country adopts various requirements.

hayzel777 · Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:30 am

DylanHarvey wrote:
I think banning all air travel until 2023 until 100% of the world is vaccinated is a good idea.

What a stupid suggestion. Any ideas on how to keep the global supply chain going after you just killed all the pax carriers? Cargo can't keep up by itself. Cost of living would balloon to egregious levels.

DylanHarvey · Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:54 am

hayzel777 wrote:
DylanHarvey wrote:
I think banning all air travel until 2023 until 100% of the world is vaccinated is a good idea.

What a stupid suggestion. Any ideas on how to keep the global supply chain going after you just killed all the pax carriers? Cargo can't keep up by itself. Cost of living would balloon to egregious levels.

It’s called depression mate. I for one am hoping that air travel is booming ASAP. Not much worse than media propaganda.

LAXintl · Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:01 pm

I believe one of the societal failures that will become apparent when this pandemic is studied is the failure to shut down air travel, particularly international air travel at the early stages of the pandemic to help limit its rapid global spread and buy time.

The virus did not travel on its own, it was greatly aided by the ~12mil passengers that flew on average daily crisscrossing the planet. A huge self-inflicted wound imo.

qf789 · Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:05 am

Norway has lifted its ban for flights to the UK

https://newsbook.com.mt/en/norway-lifts ... k-flights/

altairF28 · Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:21 am

Under the heading "Newsworthy but not all that surprising".
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sneez ... d=msedgdhp

dcajet · Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:54 am

Latin America continues to be the bright spot on American's network. Eff. Jan 4th, AA996/7 DFW-EZE is being upgauged from a 787-8 to a 787-9.

WrldTravlr65 · Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:36 am

I have no intention of traveling again until this thing settles way down, of course, but I receive mailings from different travel sites and I received information about a travel package to Tahiti from LAX on Air Tahiti Nui. Apparently they are still flying the route but you have to show a negative test within three days of your flight, and then self test after 4 days of being in Tahiti. Of course, masks required on the aircraft as well as when you're in Tahiti in public areas. But apparently they're still flying planes to Papeete from LAX.

zkojq · Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:06 am

New Zealand to require citizens and permanent residents to get tested before departure when coming from UK and USA.

All travellers from the United Kingdom or the United States will need a negative test result for Covid-19 before departing for New Zealand, the government has confirmed today.

The new rules will come into effect from 15 January. Travellers from the UK and the US will still have to go through New Zealand's 14-day quarantine regime.

Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said work was already underway to extend the requirement to other long haul flights to New Zealand.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433 ... ting-to-nz

LAXintl wrote:
I believe one of the societal failures that will become apparent when this pandemic is studied is the failure to shut down air travel, particularly international air travel at the early stages of the pandemic to help limit its rapid global spread and buy time.

The virus did not travel on its own, it was greatly aided by the ~12mil passengers that flew on average daily crisscrossing the planet. A huge self-inflicted wound imo.

I agree completely and it will be interesting to see how the lessons learned from this will be put into practice. Hypothetically it would be interesting to know how something like MERS or Swine Flu would be handled if its outbreak had happened five or six years from now.

spinotter · Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:19 pm

Article in the NY Times today dealing with the probable surge in infections after the holiday surge in airline passengers: "American airports had their busiest day of the pandemic on Saturday...1,192,881 passengers..."

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/03/world/covid19-coronavirus

In my view, airline passengers are less numerous by far than people driving to gather with their friends and relatives. But a new surge in infections this January is almost guaranteed.

mercure1 · Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:50 am

European airlines particularly LCCs like Ryanair, Wizz and easyJet seek a reduction in airport landing fees.

While some airports might be willing to discount at the moment, a race to the bottom longer term when traffic recovers would be unsustainable as airports have their own fixed cost and often large debt burdens that must be managed.

Some airports like LHR are actually increasing charges (5% in 2021) as fixed cost must be covered by lower flight and passenger volume.

https://www.ft.com/content/a1374141-97c ... 240f49c8a0

NZ321 · Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:54 pm

Toenga wrote:
Travellers to New Zealand from the UK and the US from Jan 15th will require a pre departure negative PCR test not more then 72.hours old.
The requirement will be extended to other high risk departure points.
This is in addition to the new arrival PCR test, and the 14day managed isolation in a secure facility with additional tests on days 3 and 12.
Places in managed isolation must be pre booked and are reserved for NZ citizens, or residents, and their partners and children or people and their families entering under essential or economic benifit approvals.
The more virulent UK strain has been detected in recent arrivals in managed isolation.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/433 ... ting-to-nz

So what happens if I have had a vaccination?

NZ321 · Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:58 pm

We need to understand what governments are going to do with those who have been vaccinated and those who haven't, surelly?! Lots of unanswered questions about this, yet the vaccine has been in deployment for a few weeks already. So the clock is ticking. What gives? What is the plan? Vaccinated vs non Vaccinated? This clarity is essential for across border travel to be on the table again in any significant way, be it trans-tasman or wider afield.

Toenga · Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:13 pm

NZ321 wrote:
We need to understand what governments are going to do with those who have been vaccinated and those who haven't, surelly?! Lots of unanswered questions about this, yet the vaccine has been in deployment for a few weeks already. So the clock is ticking. What gives? What is the plan? Vaccinated vs non Vaccinated? This clarity is essential for across border travel to be on the table again in any significant way, be it trans-tasman or wider afield.

As you said these are very early days. The success of NZ, and Australia, has been that their response has been very largely health outcome evidence based.
So I do not see any change in our responses, before any evidence of health outcomes has even occurred, yet alone been analysed.

NWADTWE16 · Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:17 pm

Does anyone have a definitive piece of information related to air travel into/out of the UK during this latest lockdown? Looking for US/Canada specifically. The press is horrible at covering this and the airlines (BA & VS) are worse. From what i can see based on both those sources, there is zero change to air travel, or requirements for air travel passengers with the lockdown just announced. Any help is greatly appreciated.

LAXintl · Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:21 pm

NZ321 wrote:
We need to understand what governments are going to do with those who have been vaccinated and those who haven't, surelly?! Lots of unanswered questions about this, yet the vaccine has been in deployment for a few weeks already. So the clock is ticking. What gives? What is the plan? Vaccinated vs non Vaccinated? This clarity is essential for across border travel to be on the table again in any significant way, be it trans-tasman or wider afield.

You'll likely be waiting for quite some time. Lots of unknowns still. How well do the vaccines really work, how long do they last, does it cover new variants from the UK, South Africa etc?

WHO last week issued a statement that said an optimistic scenario would be the world would still be dealing with COVID for 3-5 years and mitigating efforts like mask, social distancing etc would need to be maintained in the interim.

LAXintl · Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:27 pm

NWADTWE16 wrote:
Does anyone have a definitive piece of information related to air travel into/out of the UK during this latest lockdown? Looking for US/Canada specifically. The press is horrible at covering this and the airlines (BA & VS) are worse. From what i can see based on both those sources, there is zero change to air travel, or requirements for air travel passengers with the lockdown just announced. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Here is a link to the order

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-lo ... ay-at-home

"You can only travel internationally – or within the UK – where you first have a legally permitted reason to leave home."

"You should not travel abroad unless it is permitted. This means you must not go on holiday."

NWADTWE16 · Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:40 pm

thank you for that LAXintl.

I guess i presumed there would be a stronger reaction from Aviation but as many of us know, working thru this, its made pretty much zero sense since the start

dcajet · Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:07 am

Effective Jan. 5th, Delta is upgauging DL101/110 ATL-EZE from the 764 to the A333; the change is valid thru March, when the 764 is scheduled to return to the route.

LAXintl · Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:04 am

Australia reducing its daily arrival caps on international arrivals by 50 percent in NSW, WA and Queensland until February 15.

Flight crews will also face stricter requirements under new national standards. They will also need to quarantine in dedicated facilities between international flights or for 14 days.

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/aus ... d-testing/

qf789 · Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:18 am

LAXintl wrote:
Australia reducing its daily arrival caps on international arrivals by 50 percent in NSW, WA and Queensland until February 15.

Flight crews will also face stricter requirements under new national standards. They will also need to quarantine in dedicated facilities between international flights or for 14 days.

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/aus ... d-testing/

Masks will now be compulsory to wear for all inbound international flights plus all domestic flights, previously it only extended to MEL and SYD

readytotaxi · Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:46 am

The UK has imposed a ban on travellers coming in from six African nations over concerns about the importation of a new strain of Covid-19.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-a ... type=share

The South African variant is even more transmissible.

VSMUT · Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:45 pm

Tough new restrictions for Denmark just announced. Passengers have to show a clean test before boarding the flight to Denmark. It can be no older than 24 hours, and it looks like it has to be from the last stop prior to reaching Denmark, so if transiting in Frankfurt, that's where the test has to be from.

LAXintl · Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:58 pm

EK got a 2-week ban 9-22 January to HKG for "rules breach"

https://twitter.com/JournoDannyAero/sta ... 2146042880

EK had a previous 2-week suspension only 3 weeks ago!

UPlog · Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:56 pm

New Zealand researchers were able to trace another cluster of infections to an inbound flight where 4 passengers were infected.

NY Times story this week.

One 18-Hour Flight, Four Coronavirus Infections
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/heal ... break.html

mercure1 · Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:16 am

As global COVID cases surge air travel bookings head down in January.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErSqd9mVoAA ... ame=medium

I wonder when governments will simply ban international air travel to properly lock down their nations. So long as air travel is allowed people will carry it across borders.

777luver · Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:41 am

mercure1 wrote:
As global COVID cases surge air travel bookings head down in January.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErSqd9mVoAA ... ame=medium

I wonder when governments will simply ban international air travel to properly lock down their nations. So long as air travel is allowed people will carry it across borders.

Because travel is the real major problem at this moment in time?

ShamrockBoi330 · Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:07 am

777luver wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
As global COVID cases surge air travel bookings head down in January.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErSqd9mVoAA ... ame=medium

I wonder when governments will simply ban international air travel to properly lock down their nations. So long as air travel is allowed people will carry it across borders.

Because travel is the real major problem at this moment in time?

Well it cant be denied that flights are bringing in cases to Canada, Canada publishes this information daily. i checked yesterday and YYZ had 40+ international arrivals in last 14 days with Covid on board.

i know people that were on the DUB - YYZ flights on 12/31 and 1/2 which both had Covid on board. Friends were near affected rows. What if these flights had the UK fast spreading strain that is currenty running rampant in Europe? what then? we know its already here, but what if others on board are not like my friends who are fully quarantining, but others dont and are spreading this unknowingly?

by no means am I saying blanket bans, but more has to be done?

Just check again and its up to 148 internatiinal and 128 domestic arrivals/departures in 14 days.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... #wb-auto-5

777luver · Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:22 am

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
777luver wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
As global COVID cases surge air travel bookings head down in January.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErSqd9mVoAA ... ame=medium

I wonder when governments will simply ban international air travel to properly lock down their nations. So long as air travel is allowed people will carry it across borders.

Because travel is the real major problem at this moment in time?

The govt has implemented new rules that everyone must have a negative covid test before boarding a flight starting Jan 7th so in theory there shouldn't be any covid cases on flights since there may not be any flights anyways. But we all know how this virus operates so its not fool proof
Well it cant be denied that flights are bringing in cases to Canada, Canada publishes this information daily. i checked yesterday and YYZ had 40+ international arrivals in last 14 days with Covid on board.

i know people that were on the DUB - YYZ flights on 12/31 and 1/2 which both had Covid on board. Friends were near affected rows. What if these flights had the UK fast spreading strain that is currenty running rampant in Europe? what then? we know its already here, but what if others on board are not like my friends who are fully quarantining, but others dont and are spreading this unknowingly?

by no means am I saying blanket bans, but more has to be done?

Just check again and its up to 148 internatiinal and 128 domestic arrivals/departures in 14 days.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... #wb-auto-5

The govt has implemented new rules that states passengers must have a negative covid test before boarding a flight to Canada. This isn't fool proof though as we all know how this virus operates

ShamrockBoi330 · Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:29 am

777luver wrote:
ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
777luver wrote:

Because travel is the real major problem at this moment in time?

The govt has implemented new rules that everyone must have a negative covid test before boarding a flight starting Jan 7th so in theory there shouldn't be any covid cases on flights since there may not be any flights anyways. But we all know how this virus operates so its not fool proof
Well it cant be denied that flights are bringing in cases to Canada, Canada publishes this information daily. i checked yesterday and YYZ had 40+ international arrivals in last 14 days with Covid on board.

i know people that were on the DUB - YYZ flights on 12/31 and 1/2 which both had Covid on board. Friends were near affected rows. What if these flights had the UK fast spreading strain that is currenty running rampant in Europe? what then? we know its already here, but what if others on board are not like my friends who are fully quarantining, but others dont and are spreading this unknowingly?

by no means am I saying blanket bans, but more has to be done?

Just check again and its up to 148 internatiinal and 128 domestic arrivals/departures in 14 days.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... #wb-auto-5

The govt has implemented new rules that states passengers must have a negative covid test before boarding a flight to Canada. This isn't fool proof though as we all know how this virus operates

Indeed, and it will be interesting to watch the effect that has on the daily numbers.

But that will also have zero impact on Domestic numbers. These flights will still be flying unchecked!

777luver · Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:45 am

ShamrockBoi330 wrote:
777luver wrote:
ShamrockBoi330 wrote:

The govt has implemented new rules that everyone must have a negative covid test before boarding a flight starting Jan 7th so in theory there shouldn't be any covid cases on flights since there may not be any flights anyways. But we all know how this virus operates so its not fool proof
Well it cant be denied that flights are bringing in cases to Canada, Canada publishes this information daily. i checked yesterday and YYZ had 40+ international arrivals in last 14 days with Covid on board.

i know people that were on the DUB - YYZ flights on 12/31 and 1/2 which both had Covid on board. Friends were near affected rows. What if these flights had the UK fast spreading strain that is currenty running rampant in Europe? what then? we know its already here, but what if others on board are not like my friends who are fully quarantining, but others dont and are spreading this unknowingly?

by no means am I saying blanket bans, but more has to be done?

Just check again and its up to 148 internatiinal and 128 domestic arrivals/departures in 14 days.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... #wb-auto-5

The govt has implemented new rules that states passengers must have a negative covid test before boarding a flight to Canada. This isn't fool proof though as we all know how this virus operates

Indeed, and it will be interesting to watch the effect that has on the daily numbers.

But that will also have zero impact on Domestic numbers. These flights will still be flying unchecked!

That is true but from what we've seen with westjet they are cutting back flights to their 2001 levels and I expect AC to do that exact same thing, not sure to what level so travel won't really be happening. Will be interesting

UPlog · Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:03 am

So now Oahu Hawaii again seeing increased infections being imported by visitors from California.

7 travellers in last week tested negative prior to their flights, but shortly after arrival developed symptoms.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/01/0 ... s-angeles/

LAXintl · Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:24 pm

Porter continues its suspension

https://s3.amazonaws.com/eporter.flypor ... index.html

UPlog · Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:22 pm

American Airlines fleet service workers in Dallas, Miami and Los Angeles are asking for help from the airline amid what they say is an outbreak of COVID-19 cases.
The union for fleet service workers says the airlines new dynamic staffing model adopted in October could drive infections as staff no longer are dedicated in smaller teams working certain gates, but now instead comingle across the airport on daily basis.

American Airlines ground crews plead for help amid COVID-19 outbreaks
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... outbreaks/

lightsaber · Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:34 pm

UPlog wrote:
So now Oahu Hawaii again seeing increased infections being imported by visitors from California.

7 travellers in last week tested negative prior to their flights, but shortly after arrival developed symptoms.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/01/0 ... s-angeles/

I'm not surprised. I had to get a Covid19 pair of tests last week/Friday (negative) as the healthcare system in Los Angeles is overloaded. My doctor and two nurses begged me not to insist on a test a the system is in fatigue, but HR requires what HR requires.

California is mismanaged. My sister, a doctor in a Covid19 ward in Colorado was shocked we were still installing high flow oxygen (dramatically reduces hospital time, most people). Colorado finished in March! (No link on that):

https://fox40.com/news/california-conne ... eliveries/

Our cases in California are bad:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... alifornia/

On a personal note, I just postponed a trip because somehow LA county.... Well, chart from above link says it all (I was going to travel safe and go to a low census area):
http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/media/ ... Travel.pdf

Lightsaber

LAXintl · Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:26 am

To minimize the increased risk of COVID-19 infections, Singapore Airlines flight crew will have to wear location tracking devices during their layovers abroad.

SIA’s crews are barred from interacting with locals and each other by remaining in their hotel rooms during layovers.

https://www.aerotime.aero/26910-sia-fli ... n-layovers

mercure1 · Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:51 pm

Speaking of Singapore, SQ will start vaccinating crews against COVID-19 starting this week.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/si ... n-13945272

Wonder if this can become a marketing point of difference the airline can utilize?

LAXintl · Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:05 pm

FedEx ALPA is calling for immediate suspension of operations in Hong Kong due to "unacceptable quarantine and isolation conditions imposed on crewmembers and family in Hong Kong"

Here is the resolution they passed.
http://fdx.alpa.org/portals/26/docs/Res ... yovers.pdf

What makes it messier for FX is that they have a crew base in HKG.

UPlog · Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:26 pm

Inbound testing is rigorous HKG.

Seems the issue that the union opposes is if crews or their families test positive or get sick there is no guarantee they will be housed in private hospitals, but instead likely end up in larger facilities like the airport adjacent Expo center. Also, the company promise to evacuate in 24-48hours not working out as once in the medical system and under quarantine, the government rightfully not letting people just walk away and hop on a plane.

Not sure there is a perfect solution during these COVID times.

UPlog · Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:34 pm

Looks like U.S. airlines will get what they asked for with inbound PCR testing for arrivals into the U.S. Could take effect as soon as Jan. 26.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/12/us-plan ... ravel.html

LAXintl · Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:08 pm

Official

Must have COVID test for entry.

Marco12390 · Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:55 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Official

Must have COVID test for entry.

All passengers meaning US Citizens as well?

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