RobK wrote:

It's Antonio, as per my previous message, not Antonia.

You are correct, of course.

But I have to say that someone in the stencil shop needs a lesson in cursive, because that little tail on the O sure makes it look a lot like an A. You normally don't run that tail out -- particularly that high -- if the O is the last letter in a word; at least that's what I was taught. And I see now for a good reason.

wjcandee wrote:

RobK wrote:

It's Antonio, as per my previous message, not Antonia.

You are correct, of course.

But I have to say that someone in the stencil shop needs a lesson in cursive, because that little tail on the O sure makes it look a lot like an A. You normally don't run that tail out -- particularly that high -- if the O is the last letter in a word; at least that's what I was taught. And I see now for a good reason.

I've been working at PAE for the past two weeks, and up close it looks more clearly like "Antonio." But on the stencil note, I don't think they are using strict cursive, just a cursive-leaning font that sometimes doesn't follow the rules.

SunsetLimited wrote:

Man I love the 763. It’s like a fine wine...keeps getting better with age. I used to take that airplane for granted, considering how common they used to be, but now I really recognize its greatness.

As a passenger plane it is great for the passenger in back, the 2-3-2 seating is nice and roomy. Operationally it is efficient as it is more often flown using its full design range, but 30% of city pairs are beyond its range, those are being flown by A330, A350, and B777. So a good but not excellent passenger plane.

As a freighter it is really on the sweet spot as to size and performance. Quite amazing what proportion of the fleet is getting converted, sad to see the overall fleet in the sunset period.

Are we going to see another good sized 767 factory order? the backlog needs a boost.

JayinKitsap wrote:

SunsetLimited wrote:

Man I love the 763. It’s like a fine wine...keeps getting better with age. I used to take that airplane for granted, considering how common they used to be, but now I really recognize its greatness.

As a passenger plane it is great for the passenger in back, the 2-3-2 seating is nice and roomy. Operationally it is efficient as it is more often flown using its full design range, but 30% of city pairs are beyond its range, those are being flown by A330, A350, and B777. So a good but not excellent passenger plane.

As a freighter it is really on the sweet spot as to size and performance. Quite amazing what proportion of the fleet is getting converted, sad to see the overall fleet in the sunset period.

Are we going to see another good sized 767 factory order? the backlog needs a boost.

Have there been any more 'rumblings' about a genx powered b764f?
by my calculations fedex is ordered through fy2025 and is poised to continue to order/deliver 13.33 frames through the life of the program; top up order in the high 30s+, ~200 frame fleet.
LightSaber estimates there are ~60 production slots left; with big brown and ana needing top off orders.

amdiesen wrote:

JayinKitsap wrote:

Are we going to see another good sized 767 factory order? the backlog needs a boost.

Have there been any more 'rumblings' about a genx powered b764f?
by my calculations fedex is ordered through fy2025 and is poised to continue to order/deliver 13.33 frames through the life of the program; top up order in the high 30s+, ~200 frame fleet.
LightSaber estimates there are ~60 production slots left; with big brown and ana needing top off orders.

Nothing I recall from Boeing or in the press, others here on A.net feel confident that the GEnX B764F will happen.

I for one feel this would be an excellent solution, keeping the 767 in production past 2028. It creates a new size and capabilities, a small MTOW bump and a big efficiency bump. Possibly the new size would entice Amazon to buy new instead of conversions for their highest utilization routes.

For KC-Y, it may be the answer if higher delivery load after 5 hours than the current KC-46 can supply. The added MTOW and less fuel burn of the new engines for 5 hours might gain 10 tons of added fuel delivery.

amdiesen wrote:

Have there been any more 'rumblings' about a genx powered b764f?

Not that I have read or seen reported in the aviation media. There are likely still basic engineering studies ongoing, but I am not convinced there is a large enough market for the frame to cover the investment.

For KC-Y, Boeing will pitch the KC-46 or nothing. The USAF is not going to seriously consider a new model considering all the issues Boeing has had just getting the KC-46 across the finish line. So the USAF will define the RFP such as that it will either be able to be met by the KC-46 (in which case I expect it to win as the incumbent) or the KC-45/A330MRTT, in which case LM and Airbus will win as they will be the only one able to meet the requirements.

And if the KC-46 does win the KC-Y contest, that would keep the line going at full rate production for years and that would be enough, IMO, so Boeing would not consider a commercial 767-400ERF.

Stitch wrote:

amdiesen wrote:

Have there been any more 'rumblings' about a genx powered b764f?

Not that I have read or seen reported in the aviation media. There are likely still basic engineering studies ongoing, but I am not convinced there is a large enough market for the frame to cover the investment.

For KC-Y, Boeing will pitch the KC-46 or nothing. The USAF is not going to seriously consider a new model considering all the issues Boeing has had just getting the KC-46 across the finish line. So the USAF will define the RFP such as that it will either be able to be met by the KC-46 (in which case I expect it to win as the incumbent) or the KC-45/A330MRTT, in which case LM and Airbus will win as they will be the only one able to meet the requirements.

And if the KC-46 does win the KC-Y contest, that would keep the line going at full rate production for years and that would be enough, IMO, so Boeing would not consider a commercial 767-400ERF.

What kind of firm order do you think would be needed for Boeing to invest in development? 50? More?

Stitch wrote:

amdiesen wrote:

Have there been any more 'rumblings' about a genx powered b764f?

Not that I have read or seen reported in the aviation media. There are likely still basic engineering studies ongoing, but I am not convinced there is a large enough market for the frame to cover the investment.

For KC-Y, Boeing will pitch the KC-46 or nothing. The USAF is not going to seriously consider a new model considering all the issues Boeing has had just getting the KC-46 across the finish line. So the USAF will define the RFP such as that it will either be able to be met by the KC-46 (in which case I expect it to win as the incumbent) or the KC-45/A330MRTT, in which case LM and Airbus will win as they will be the only one able to meet the requirements.

And if the KC-46 does win the KC-Y contest, that would keep the line going at full rate production for years and that would be enough, IMO, so Boeing would not consider a commercial 767-400ERF.

The last part is interesting - to the extent a tanker development could be used, the costs can be spread out better.

The next for FedEx, N199FE was spotted on the compass rose in full livery.

See Matt Cawby's Paine field blog of October 22th : http://www.paineairport.com/kpae19648c.htm

Aircraft data : L/N 1256 C/N 63129 B767-300F N199FE FEDEX (VT665)

A vote of confidence from JAL of the 767 sticking around that is signed up to upgrade its 767 fleet cockpits with LCD flight displays

https://www.journal-aviation.com/en/new ... t-displays

Seems the deal covers the entire current fleet of 31 frames.

UPlog wrote:

A vote of confidence from JAL of the 767 sticking around that is signed up to upgrade its 767 fleet cockpits with LCD flight displays

https://www.journal-aviation.com/en/new ... t-displays

Seems the deal covers the entire current fleet of 31 frames.

It's more a vote for a short period, necessary because of the current non-availability of reasonable priced replacement CRT's.
JAL has selected the relative cheap plug and play Thomas Global TFD-7000 LCD Series solution, to replace the CRT's at the JAL 767-300 fleet
A long term but more expensive solution would have been the Collins Aerospace Large Display System (LDS) modification, selected by both FedEx and UPS on their large 767-300F fleets.

N199FE, made her first (B1) flight at October 29th 2021 with callsign BOE665, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE ... /KPAE/KMWH

See Matt Cawby's Paine Field blog of Oct 29th : http://www.paineairport.com/kpae19670v.htm

747classic wrote:

UPlog wrote:

A vote of confidence from JAL of the 767 sticking around that is signed up to upgrade its 767 fleet cockpits with LCD flight displays

https://www.journal-aviation.com/en/new ... t-displays

Seems the deal covers the entire current fleet of 31 frames.

It's more a vote for a short period, necessary because of the current non-availability of reasonable priced replacement CRT's.
JAL has selected the relative cheap plug and play Thomas Global TFD-7000 LCD Series solution, to replace the CRT's at the JAL 767-300 fleet
A long term but more expensive solution would have been the Collins Aerospace Large Display System (LDS) modification, selected by both FedEx and UPS on their large 767-300F fleets.

Or the middle ground of the IS&S solution, which adds quite a bit of functionality, but doesn't require rewiring everything.

The solutions are:
Thomas Global: plug and play CRT replacement with minimal additional functionality. No changes in the equipment bay. Literally can be done at the gate.
IS&S: Replaces numerous LRUs and combines their functionality into two CRT displays per pilot. Swaps boxes in equipment bay. Uses existing wiring. Can be done in a couple of days.
LDS: Replaces even more LRUs into CRT displays; adds additional functionality. Requires significant rewiring. Two weeks per aircraft.

N376UP made her first (B1) flight at November 16th 2021 with callsign BOE304, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N37 ... /KPAE/KPAE

See for a picture Matt Cawby's Paine Field blog of Nov 16th : http://paineairport.com/kpae19708u.htm

This is the first from only two remaining UPS 767-300F orders.
Aircraft data : L/N 1260 C/N 66811 B767-300F N376UP UNITED PARCEL SERVICE (VR304)

The next will be : L/N 1262 C/N 66812 B767-300F N377UP UNITED PARCEL SERVICE (VR305)

N376UP was delivered to UPS Wednesday the 24th to San Antonio. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N37 ... /KPAE/KSAT
Post production work will be on going until likely Sunday the 28th, then it will reposition to Worldport.

N377UP is still on the plan to deliver this year, as well as N631UP.

747classic wrote:

UPlog wrote:

A vote of confidence from JAL of the 767 sticking around that is signed up to upgrade its 767 fleet cockpits with LCD flight displays

https://www.journal-aviation.com/en/new ... t-displays

Seems the deal covers the entire current fleet of 31 frames.

It's more a vote for a short period, necessary because of the current non-availability of reasonable priced replacement CRT's.
JAL has selected the relative cheap plug and play Thomas Global TFD-7000 LCD Series solution, to replace the CRT's at the JAL 767-300 fleet
A long term but more expensive solution would have been the Collins Aerospace Large Display System (LDS) modification, selected by both FedEx and UPS on their large 767-300F fleets.

Why can't they leave the current CRTs in place?

blacksoviet wrote:

747classic wrote:

UPlog wrote:

A vote of confidence from JAL of the 767 sticking around that is signed up to upgrade its 767 fleet cockpits with LCD flight displays

https://www.journal-aviation.com/en/new ... t-displays

Seems the deal covers the entire current fleet of 31 frames.

It's more a vote for a short period, necessary because of the current non-availability of reasonable priced replacement CRT's.
JAL has selected the relative cheap plug and play Thomas Global TFD-7000 LCD Series solution, to replace the CRT's at the JAL 767-300 fleet
A long term but more expensive solution would have been the Collins Aerospace Large Display System (LDS) modification, selected by both FedEx and UPS on their large 767-300F fleets.

Why can't they leave the current CRTs in place?

Spare parts are an issue; the number of companies still making and supporting CRT displays is virtually nil. Toshiba was the last major manufacturer of CRT displays, and they wound down their operations last year.

LCD displays have many advantages, such as long lives, compactness, and weighing less overall.

N377UP, the last 767-300F of the current order backlog for UPS, made her first (B1) flight at December 01th with callsign BOE305, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N37 ... /KPAE/KPAE
The, still unpainted, aircraft returned to Paine Field after only 0.28 hrs due technical issues and didn't complete the filed flightplan.

For a N377UP taxi picture, taken a day earlier, see Matt Cawby's Paine Field blog of Nov 30th : http://paineairport.com/kpae19721x.htm

Aircraft data : L/N 1262 C/N 66812 B767-300F N377UP UNITED PARCEL SERVICE (VR305)

With a delayed first flight, original scheduled for Nov 30th, and the actual B1 at Dec 01th cut short, it will be a close call to join the peak (on top of that the aircraft still has to be painted).

How many factory-build 767 freighters haven been produced? And how many pax 767 have been converted?

ThePointblank wrote:

blacksoviet wrote:

747classic wrote:

It's more a vote for a short period, necessary because of the current non-availability of reasonable priced replacement CRT's.
JAL has selected the relative cheap plug and play Thomas Global TFD-7000 LCD Series solution, to replace the CRT's at the JAL 767-300 fleet
A long term but more expensive solution would have been the Collins Aerospace Large Display System (LDS) modification, selected by both FedEx and UPS on their large 767-300F fleets.

Why can't they leave the current CRTs in place?

Spare parts are an issue; the number of companies still making and supporting CRT displays is virtually nil. Toshiba was the last major manufacturer of CRT displays, and they wound down their operations last year.
LCD displays have many advantages, such as long lives, compactness, and weighing less overall.

Use less electricity as well. I do think that if one wanted just to keep the CRTs, it is doable, so the JAL move does indicate an interest in longer-term maintenance. Thomas Global, among others, refurbishes some of the CRT LRUs, and bought a bunch of CRTs from Toshiba before the factory closed. Eventually, one will have to switch over to one of the 3 non-CRT solutions, but there are still some CRT options available.

And the IS&S solution still has a goodly number of takers, as a solid middle ground. Because it doesn't replace the EICAS CRT, some carriers are now replacing that with the Thomas Global LCD LRU, which makes a lot of sense: upgrade functionality with the IS&S Cockpit/IP system on the pilot displays, and install an inexpensive LCD Thomas Global replacement of the EICAS screen.

ben7x wrote:

How many factory-build 767 freighters haven been produced? And how many pax 767 have been converted?

204 767-300F have been delivered through 31 October. At the moment, current unfilled orders are 47 (and all are expected to be built).

No idea how many conversions have been done.

ben7x wrote:

How many factory-build 767 freighters haven been produced? And how many pax 767 have been converted?

According to Boeing O&D website,
B767-300F
Order= 252
Delivered= 204
Unfilled= 47 (39 FedEx, 6 UFO, 2, UPS)

According airfleets.net, these are total number of B767 pax converted to freighter:
B767-200= 64* (out of 77 B767-200/ B767-200ER delivered)
B767-300= 146** (out of 666 B767-300/ B767-300ER delivered)

*(including those currently in storage)
**(excluding those slated for conversion)

Any news about L/N 1258?
According to planespotters it's the first 767 for China Central Longhao and I've seen no pic and no activity of this frame, even on twitter and boefamily.flights.
That's strange. L/N 1259 have been delivered.

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:

ben7x wrote:

How many factory-build 767 freighters haven been produced? And how many pax 767 have been converted?

According to Boeing O&D website,
B767-300F
Order= 252
Delivered= 204
Unfilled= 47 (39 FedEx, 6 UFO, 2, UPS)

According airfleets.net, these are total number of B767 pax converted to freighter:
B767-200= 64* (out of 77 B767-200/ B767-200ER delivered)
B767-300= 146** (out of 666 B767-300/ B767-300ER delivered)

*(including those currently in storage)
**(excluding those slated for conversion)

Are you saying that only 77 762s were built? That seems low.

blacksoviet: Interesting that by your stats, the Amazon 767 fleet is basically 1/3 of all conversions.

Per Boeing, 767-200 family deliveries are as follows:

767-200: 128
767-200ER: 121

There are also 54 767-2C to date, but those are all destined for military use.

wjcandee wrote:

blacksoviet: Interesting that by your stats, the Amazon 767 fleet is basically 1/3 of all conversions.

What stats? I don’t have any stats.

blacksoviet wrote:

wjcandee wrote:

blacksoviet: Interesting that by your stats, the Amazon 767 fleet is basically 1/3 of all conversions.

What stats? I don’t have any stats.

Oops, I gave your credit for RoyalBrunei's stats. You responded to them. My mistake.

Stitch wrote:

Per Boeing, 767-200 family deliveries are as follows:

767-200: 128
767-200ER: 121

There are also 54 767-2C to date, but those are all destined for military use.

It is interesting that the 767-200ER was never as popular as the 767-200. When was the last 767-200 delivered? Is the 767-2C based on the 767-200 or the 767-200ER?

blacksoviet wrote:

Is the 767-2C based on the 767-200 or the 767-200ER?

I would expect it is based on the 767-200ER considering the operating weights are similar so they would want the stronger structure.

blacksoviet wrote:

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:

ben7x wrote:

How many factory-build 767 freighters haven been produced? And how many pax 767 have been converted?

According to Boeing O&D website,
B767-300F
Order= 252
Delivered= 204
Unfilled= 47 (39 FedEx, 6 UFO, 2, UPS)

According airfleets.net, these are total number of B767 pax converted to freighter:
B767-200= 64* (out of 77 B767-200/ B767-200ER delivered)
B767-300= 146** (out of 666 B767-300/ B767-300ER delivered)

*(including those currently in storage)
**(excluding those slated for conversion)

Are you saying that only 77 762s were built? That seems low.

Apologies, I filtered with wrong start year. Stitch got it correct. Here are the correct stats:

B767-200= 64* (out of 249 B767-200/ B767-200ER delivered)
B767-300= 146** (out of 687 B767-300/ B767-300ER delivered)

*(including those currently in storage)
**(excluding those slated for conversion)

As for B767-2C, the design is based on the fuselage of the 767-200ER, the wings of the 767-300, the tail units of the 767-400ER and the cockpit displays of the 787. All the best of B767 family + B787 I guess.102 order were placed, 54 have been delivered so far.

CC-CXD (l/n 967 c/n 35697) of LATAM is planned to be redelivered to LATAM Cargo, after conversion at Singapore, via SIN-HNL-MIA by the end of this week.

N606KW Eastern has left FJR after 6 years of storage heading to FLL via DSS.

N606KW Eastern has left FJR after 6 years of storage heading to FLL via DSS.

mark1484 wrote:

N606KW Eastern has left FJR after 6 years of storage heading to FLL via DSS.

Wow, a 33 years old B762 ex-Air Canada bird! She reunite with her only other sibling in existence now N604KW.

Late update, due a 3 weeks holiday at Curacao, followed by Christmas :

Finally. after several customer acceptance flights, N377UP was delivered at December 23th to San Antonio, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N37 ... /KPAE/KSAT



Original uploaded by UPS Airlines at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/UPSAirlines/status/ ... 1253393412

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:

mark1484 wrote:

N606KW Eastern has left FJR after 6 years of storage heading to FLL via DSS.

Wow, a 33 years old B762 ex-Air Canada bird! She reunite with her only other sibling in existence now N604KW.

How does Eastern make a profit operating 762s? I thought that the 762 was no longer competitive in North America which is why Smisek sold them back in 2014.

blacksoviet wrote:

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:

mark1484 wrote:

N606KW Eastern has left FJR after 6 years of storage heading to FLL via DSS.

Wow, a 33 years old B762 ex-Air Canada bird! She reunite with her only other sibling in existence now N604KW.

How does Eastern make a profit operating 762s? I thought that the 762 was no longer competitive in North America which is why Smisek sold them back in 2014.

Those CO/UA 762s were set up to carry only 174 pax. I think they can make money with 250 pax squeezed into it like some leisure carriers have done. Not sure how Eastern has theirs configured, but I’m guessing somewhere in between…

orlandocfi wrote:

blacksoviet wrote:

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:

Wow, a 33 years old B762 ex-Air Canada bird! She reunite with her only other sibling in existence now N604KW.

How does Eastern make a profit operating 762s? I thought that the 762 was no longer competitive in North America which is why Smisek sold them back in 2014.

Those CO/UA 762s were set up to carry only 174 pax. I think they can make money with 250 pax squeezed into it like some leisure carriers have done. Not sure how Eastern has theirs configured, but I’m guessing somewhere in between…

Wikipedia says 218. Does Eastern not have First Class?

blacksoviet wrote:

Wikipedia says 218. Does Eastern not have First Class?

Their website does not mention any classes of service, but there is a trip report on a 767-300 repatriation flight from Brazil that showed the plane has 30 "Premium" seats in 5 rows of 2+2+2,

The Boeing ACAP for a 767-200 shows 218 seats would be 16 First at 38" and 195 Economy at 34" in 2+3+2.
The Boeing ACAP for a 767-300 shows 261 seats would be 24 First at 38" and 237 Economy at 34" in 2+3+2.

orlandocfi wrote:

blacksoviet wrote:

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:

Wow, a 33 years old B762 ex-Air Canada bird! She reunite with her only other sibling in existence now N604KW.

How does Eastern make a profit operating 762s? I thought that the 762 was no longer competitive in North America which is why Smisek sold them back in 2014.

Those CO/UA 762s were set up to carry only 174 pax. I think they can make money with 250 pax squeezed into it like some leisure carriers have done. Not sure how Eastern has theirs configured, but I’m guessing somewhere in between…

If Wikipedia is correct, Eastern has 218 seats on their B767-200, both non-ER and -ER fleet. Edit: blacksoviet got it few seconds before I did.

Saw some photo online, they seems to have those 80s/90s lazy chair for J class or Premium economy. https://goeasternaircargo.com/passenger-aircraft/

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:

orlandocfi wrote:

blacksoviet wrote:

How does Eastern make a profit operating 762s? I thought that the 762 was no longer competitive in North America which is why Smisek sold them back in 2014.

Those CO/UA 762s were set up to carry only 174 pax. I think they can make money with 250 pax squeezed into it like some leisure carriers have done. Not sure how Eastern has theirs configured, but I’m guessing somewhere in between…

If Wikipedia is correct, Eastern has 218 seats on their B767-200, both non-ER and -ER fleet. Edit: blacksoviet got it few seconds before I did.

Saw some photo online, they seems to have those 80s/90s lazy chair for J class or Premium economy. https://goeasternaircargo.com/passenger-aircraft/

Can the 767-200s be converted to 767-200ERs? Would this work have to be done by Boeing or can anybody do the modification?

blacksoviet wrote:

RoyalBrunei757 wrote:

orlandocfi wrote:

Those CO/UA 762s were set up to carry only 174 pax. I think they can make money with 250 pax squeezed into it like some leisure carriers have done. Not sure how Eastern has theirs configured, but I’m guessing somewhere in between…

If Wikipedia is correct, Eastern has 218 seats on their B767-200, both non-ER and -ER fleet. Edit: blacksoviet got it few seconds before I did.

Saw some photo online, they seems to have those 80s/90s lazy chair for J class or Premium economy. https://goeasternaircargo.com/passenger-aircraft/

Can the 767-200s be converted to 767-200ERs? Would this work have to be done by Boeing or can anybody do the modification?

Depends on when was the B767-200 was built, the later built models came with pre-built capability, ready to be converted if the owner wants it. As to who can do it now, I am not sure which MRO has the license to do so. There are two very informative thread that I managed to dig out:

viewtopic.php?t=1406291
viewtopic.php?t=755673

Will bookmark these for reading tonight.

Stitch wrote:

The Boeing ACAP for a 767-200 shows 218 seats would be 16 First at 38" and 195 Economy at 34" in 2+3+2.
The Boeing ACAP for a 767-300 shows 261 seats would be 24 First at 38" and 237 Economy at 34" in 2+3+2.

FYI, 38” pitch is not First class by any stretch of the imagination.

They might try to sell that in the US as first, but barley Y+ if I’m not mistaken.

ben7x wrote:

How many factory-build 767 freighters haven been produced? And how many pax 767 have been converted?

Looking at recent numbers, around 50 BCF and 130+ BDSF conversions as of a week or so ago. Looks like each conversion has squeezed out another one (BCF to SF Airlines, BDSF to Amazon) in the past week so likely over 200 conversions total by end of 2022.

TUGMASTER wrote:

FYI, 38” pitch is not First class by any stretch of the imagination.

They might try to sell that in the US as first, but barley Y+ if I’m not mistaken.

W'ever, mate. The ACAP configurations for most Boeing products are still using standards in place during the 1980s (for commonality with older models no longer in production) and even today most domestic US carrier's First Class cabins are 38" (or less). One of the reasons I choose Alaska, since it's over 40 inches.

TUGMASTER wrote:

Stitch wrote:

The Boeing ACAP for a 767-200 shows 218 seats would be 16 First at 38" and 195 Economy at 34" in 2+3+2.
The Boeing ACAP for a 767-300 shows 261 seats would be 24 First at 38" and 237 Economy at 34" in 2+3+2.

FYI, 38” pitch is not First class by any stretch of the imagination.

They might try to sell that in the US as first, but barley Y+ if I’m not mistaken.

That’s the standard for domestic first with recliner seats. Obviously, long haul with lie-flat seats offers a more generous seat pitch.