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T4thH
Posts: 1215
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:17 pm

Nean1 wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Further delay on the E175-E2 by one year. New entry into service date: 2014

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... 30.article



This starts to sound more like "indefinite" slowly. Or let us say...not only any more slowly. As long it is not US scope compliant (and it will never get scope compliant, the scope has to be adapted to the E175-E2...what is unlikely...), there is and will be no need for them in the US and globally.

Russia has the SSJ, promoted by Russia government, China the ARJ21, promoted by the Chinese government and the rest of the world does not any more want/need a jet in the 76 seat size/below 100 seat size.
According last expectations, if I remember correctly....
Ex USA, Russia and China....maximum 60 for Europe (ex Russia, and these new build and already existing) and the rest of the world next to zero in the next 20 years new build below 100 seats regional jets? And these already includes the 99 seat category by French law for regional airlines in France?

So without scope clause change in the US, the E175-E2 will fit in, no E175-E2? It seems to be a Dodo, extinct, even before ever flown.


By that logic, as of 2028, regional airlines from all over the western world will have to settle for the ATR-72, not least because it is very unlikely that an entirely new project will be ready in less than 7 years.


Please note, yes, you are right, this is what is expected for Europe/EU. The regional "jet" in the 76 seat size will extinct; but also the number of regional turboprops will go down, not to zero, but more or less next to it.
When last time someone in EU part of Europe has bought a 76 seat size jet? So we are not talking about Russia....
 
inkjet7
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:32 am

Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:13 pm

T4thH wrote:
When last time someone in EU part of Europe has bought a 76 seat size jet?

I think some of Binter Canarias' ATR 72-600 are pretty young. Not a jet though. E175L's for KL have 88 seats.
 
T4thH
Posts: 1215
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:52 pm

inkjet7 wrote:
T4thH wrote:
When last time someone in EU part of Europe has bought a 76 seat size jet?

I think some of Binter Canarias' ATR 72-600 are pretty young. Not a jet though. E175L's for KL have 88 seats.

Please note, the magic word is JET. Else there are still some E170/E175 left in Europe (EU) but numbers of regional jets in Europe with 90 and less seats jets are shrinking or will shrink.

LH group has had many CRJ700, all already in young age (15 and less years) gone, last 2015. LH group has still many really young CRJ900, but also there, the nmubers are declining or it has been announced, some of them will go. Regional air traffic and Germany....it is not any more wanted by the government.

HOP has some E170, let us see, when they will go. Regional air traffic is not really any more wanted in France. It is the same as for Germany in mid term.
KLM has some E175. I am not aware of the up to date status and further plans for them. They have ordered the E195-E2, will they replace
Alitalia City liner, soon ago there were 15x E175, now there are only 10.
LOT, same as KLM, I do not know, what is planned.

But you were right, the last ordered E175 were these from KLM also with high density seating.
 
SA280
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Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:21 pm

T4thH wrote:
inkjet7 wrote:
T4thH wrote:
When last time someone in EU part of Europe has bought a 76 seat size jet?

I think some of Binter Canarias' ATR 72-600 are pretty young. Not a jet though. E175L's for KL have 88 seats.

Please note, the magic word is JET. Else there are still some E170/E175 left in Europe (EU) but numbers of regional jets in Europe with 90 and less seats jets are shrinking or will shrink.

LH group has had many CRJ700, all already in young age (15 and less years) gone, last 2015. LH group has still many really young CRJ900, but also there, the nmubers are declining or it has been announced, some of them will go. Regional air traffic and Germany....it is not any more wanted by the government.

HOP has some E170, let us see, when they will go. Regional air traffic is not really any more wanted in France. It is the same as for Germany in mid term.
KLM has some E175. I am not aware of the up to date status and further plans for them. They have ordered the E195-E2, will they replace
Alitalia City liner, soon ago there were 15x E175, now there are only 10.
LOT, same as KLM, I do not know, what is planned.

But you were right, the last ordered E175 were these from KLM also with high density seating.

High density seating?

I would call it "optimized cabin" for demand needs.

Not all regions require short-haul first class, lots of stowage space, large galleys and disproportionate ammount of premium seats (as percentage ot total, caused by specific scope clauses).
 
inkjet7
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Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:06 am

SA280 wrote:
High density seating?

I would call it "optimized cabin" for demand needs.

KLM can use 88 thru 186 seats on the same routes as demand varies using five different types (3 Emb, 2 737). The E75L's perform a relatively large part of the flights in these pandemic times. Remember most flights are short so luxury is not really needed. The E295's have so far replaced 73G's contributing to cost reduction.
 
inkjet7
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Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:28 am

Jungleneer wrote:
tvh wrote:
https://luchtvaartnieuws.nl/ is saying that KLM cityhopper is going to use the 195-E2 to London city in the future. Is there a stol version planned ??


The 195E2 certification numbers ended up being much better than expected. Therefore the model is already able to takeoff and land in 1300 m runways, according to embraercommercialaviation.com website. Azul is operating the model in Santos Dumont (SDU) with full pax, and it is a 1260 m runway. In London City, I believe that the higher sink rate due to steep approach must be the most challenging part due to aircraft weight, even more than the runway dimension.


The runway may be 1300 m but how about the TODA and LDA? There will also be a minimum climb gradient as a 27 takeoff leads directly over the city.
 
Someone83
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Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:46 am

T4thH wrote:
KLM has some E175. I am not aware of the up to date status and further plans for them. They have ordered the E195-E2, will they replace


KLMs are rather new, delivered 2016-2018, so isn't going anywhere soon. The E195-E2 is a 737-700 replacement
 
dstblj52
Posts: 642
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Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 4:46 am

danipawa wrote:
any news with the 175E2? no customers yet?

the 175E2 has scope issues and is unlikely to be sold in great numbers as a result
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 10:48 pm

Embraer delivered today to BELAVIA its third E195-E2, msn 19020053, prefix EW-560PO.

Picture source courtesy by aeroin.net:

Image
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 12:06 am

EMBSPBR wrote:
First E195-E2 to be delivered to Helvetic Airways in the final assembly stage at Embraer's facilities in São José dos Campos (SJK).
The plane will receive the registration number HB-AZI.
The company has previously received 8 E190-E2 aircraft and this is the first of an order for 4 E195-E2 aircraft.
Photo courtesy of aeroin.net.
Source: https://www.aeroin.net/o-primeiro-aviao ... -tem-asas/
Image


Helvetic's first E195-E2 being painted in its Embraer “sustainable hangar”, which uses less energy and produces less emissions,
and is located at the company's facilities at São José dos Campos Airport (SJK). According to the manufacturer,
its planes are painted with chromate-free coatings (chromic acid salts) and in a process that consumes 30% less paint
than the previous standard and emits 15% less volatile compounds.

Video source courtesy by Embraer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i47WSy0Q6fc&t=14s
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 1:01 am

T4thH wrote:
Russia has the SSJ, promoted by Russia government, China the ARJ21, promoted by the Chinese government and the rest of the world does not any more want/need a jet in the 76 seat size/below 100 seat size.
According last expectations, if I remember correctly....
Ex USA, Russia and China....maximum 60 for Europe (ex Russia, and these new build and already existing) and the rest of the world next to zero in the next 20 years new build below 100 seats regional jets? And these already includes the 99 seat category by French law for regional airlines in France?

So without scope clause change in the US, the E175-E2 will fit in, no E175-E2? It seems to be a Dodo, extinct, even before ever flown.

Unfortunately with Russia and China imposing the requirement to buy the indigenous example, there really is no hope without US domestic market. Everyone else seems happy with ATRs or upgauging.

The reality is the cost advantage vs. an E2-175 vs. E2-190 isn't enough to be a launch customers except for US airlines. I hope their is a launch customer, I cannot figure out who.

Lightsaber
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
Nean1
Posts: 515
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Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 2:40 am

The 175E2 has already done its job perfectly, which was to defeat the MRJ. He did this by spending less than US$ 500 MM so far, while his opponent has long since crossed 10x that mark, with the original budget being just US$ 1.5 billion.

Predicting the future remains a risky task. I cannot believe that a market fiercely contested by the CRJ, Q-400, ERJ-145 and E-Jets will be adequately served by an aircraft as spartan and limited as the ATR-72. I will venture to say that the successor to the 175E1 in USA will be the TP E3 and that the 175E2 will find some success in Europe and Asia.

At the current pace, the 175E2 certification campaign can probably be completed almost entirely with just 1 aircraft (there were 7 MRJ90 prototypes in flight...). The time when a good and solid Japanese engineering company simply decided to enter and dominate a market for complex and mature products seems to be over.
 
MEA-707
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Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 11:58 am

I still don't get why Embraer doesn't try and chop a slice of fuselage and weight to get the 175E2 within the scope limits. In the USA there are more than 1000 E170/175s, CRJ700 but also smaller CRJ200s and E145s which could and would be replaced with it, even if the bit too big engine will only give 5% efficiency over the 175E1 it will be sold, also because CRJ disappeared off the market.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
Nean1
Posts: 515
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Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 12:54 pm

MEA-707 wrote:
I still don't get why Embraer doesn't try and chop a slice of fuselage and weight to get the 175E2 within the scope limits. In the USA there are more than 1000 E170/175s, CRJ700 but also smaller CRJ200s and E145s which could and would be replaced with it, even if the bit too big engine will only give 5% efficiency over the 175E1 it will be sold, also because CRJ disappeared off the market.


Apparently there is no way to build a regional plane for 70 passengers with the PW GTF 1200/1700 that meets the scope clause and is economically advantageous with respect to the 175E1. But why the hurry, if only from 2028 this model will stop being produced? This is an industry where the timing of decisions is of such fundamental importance. Being too early can be just as damaging as being late.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 9:51 am

Fourth E195-E2 delivered on May 16, 2021 to KLM Cityhopper, msn 19020054, registration PH-NXD:

Source:
https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... per/e9qd95
 
marcogr12
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 11:21 am

EMBSPBR wrote:
Fourth E195-E2 delivered on May 16, 2021 to KLM Cityhopper, msn 19020054, registration PH-NXD:

Source:
https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... per/e9qd95


I was wondering why would they need E2-jets when the majority of them are used on short hops around Europe, and the E-190/195s are still perfectly capable of that..The E2-195 has bigger range but KLM doesn't seem interested in taking advantage of that and as a bigger and heavier jet than its smaller predecessor doesn't that incur more expensive landing/takeoff charges? Yes they burn less fuel but is that enough to warrant a new gen fleet yet? Their current E175/190 fleet isn't that old..
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
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Polot
Posts: 11673
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 11:29 am

marcogr12 wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
Fourth E195-E2 delivered on May 16, 2021 to KLM Cityhopper, msn 19020054, registration PH-NXD:

Source:
https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... per/e9qd95


I was wondering why would they need E2-jets when the majority of them are used on short hops around Europe, and the E-190/195s are still perfectly capable of that..The E2-195 has bigger range but KLM doesn't seem interested in taking advantage of that and as a bigger and heavier jet than its smaller predecessor doesn't that incur more expensive landing/takeoff charges? Yes they burn less fuel but is that enough to warrant a new gen fleet yet? Their current E175/190 fleet isn't that old..

They are replacing 73Gs.
 
marcogr12
Posts: 600
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Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 8:23 pm

Yes i know they are replacing the 73Gs..It's a shame though such a fantastic plane not to be used on longer thin routes winter or summer
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
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Polot
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Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 8:28 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
Yes i know they are replacing the 73Gs..It's a shame though such a fantastic plane not to be used on longer thin routes winter or summer

The E2 is basically the lowest range narrowbody you can get now. A vast majority of intraeuropean operations is no where near modern day narrow bodies’ max capabilities. Most were designed last gen with US transcon in mind, and now have new more fuel efficient engines with the same max weight and fuel volumes.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 12:05 am

Polot wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
Yes i know they are replacing the 73Gs..It's a shame though such a fantastic plane not to be used on longer thin routes winter or summer

The E2 is basically the lowest range narrowbody you can get now. A vast majority of intraeuropean operations is no where near modern day narrow bodies’ max capabilities. Most were designed last gen with US transcon in mind, and now have new more fuel efficient engines with the same max weight and fuel volumes.


Which, for E2, in fact, can be a great advantage. Why a US transcon if we consider that, within the European continent
(and even some in the African continent and the Middle East) is within the range of the E190/195-E2:

Source:
http://www.embraercommercialaviation.co ... rcial-jet/

E190-E2 range: 2850nm / 5278km
E195-E2 range: 2600nm / 4185km

Image
 
SA280
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:18 pm

Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 12:20 am

Exactly! Extra capability means extra weight, extra fuel burn, extra maintenance cost, extra landing, navigation and noise fees...

European airlines don't need A220's extra range. On the other hand, there are challenging airports such as LCY and FLR where the E2 performs better.
 
marcogr12
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 11:37 am

EMBSPBR wrote:
Polot wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
Yes i know they are replacing the 73Gs..It's a shame though such a fantastic plane not to be used on longer thin routes winter or summer

The E2 is basically the lowest range narrowbody you can get now. A vast majority of intraeuropean operations is no where near modern day narrow bodies’ max capabilities. Most were designed last gen with US transcon in mind, and now have new more fuel efficient engines with the same max weight and fuel volumes.


Which, for E2, in fact, can be a great advantage. Why a US transcon if we consider that, within the European continent
(and even some in the African continent and the Middle East) is within the range of the E190/195-E2:

Source:
http://www.embraercommercialaviation.co ... rcial-jet/

E190-E2 range: 2850nm / 5278km
E195-E2 range: 2600nm / 4185km

Image


I think the E2-195 is a great regional jet(?) and if KLM wanted they could use it even to flights like KEF,TLV,LCA,FNC when loads are light instead of offloading to HV 189seaters..Wideroe flies the E2-190 from BGO to LCA in the summer
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
9252fly
Posts: 1131
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Wed May 19, 2021 7:19 pm

I don't know if this linked article has any truth or substance to it, but it looks like an identified order for 30 E2-195s from Canadian airline Porter PD.

https://leehamnews.com/2021/05/19/hotr- ... 5-e2-deal/
 
Nean1
Posts: 515
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 11:08 pm

Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Mon May 24, 2021 6:57 pm

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... d-recovery

The information arrives that the 190E2 aircraft has been approved to operate at the LYC.

"..Of the three variants, the one that has drawn the most interest from airlines recently—the E195-E2—is also the largest, carrying as many as 146 passengers in a single-class layout. Embraer plans to deliver the first of four next month that were ordered by Switzerland’s Helvetic Airways, which coincidentally will become the first to fly one of its eight E190-E2s in revenue service into London City Airport, where E-Jets already account for 70 percent of all movements. That model gained approval to operate into the short-field, obstacle-limited airport last week..."
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Embraer E2 Testing/Production Thread - 2021

Wed May 26, 2021 10:16 pm

Source: https://www.aeroin.net/primeiro-embraer ... meira-vez/

Helvetic's first Embraer E195-E2 is ready and takes off for the first time

Excerpt (translated):

It happened today (26), the first flight of the Helvetic Airways E195-E2, msn 19020055, test prefix PR-EAF an future HB-AZI,
which took off from São José dos Campos, Embraer's headquarters, made a flight over the Vale do Paraíba,
and returned for landing at the city's International Airport, SJK.

Photo courtesy:
https://www.aeroin.net/primeiro-embraer ... meira-vez/

(Pay attention on RAT deployed):

Image

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