There were no movements for 6 August 2021.

Latest movement for 9 August 2021:

MSN 270 Hong Kong Airlines A359 F-WZFT/B-LGJ, fifteenth test flight at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/270

Latest movement for 10 August 2021:

MSN 470 China Eastern Airlines A359 F-WZFF/B-xxxx, ferried from TLS>TSN for completion and customer acceptance:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/470

audidudi wrote:

Latest movement for 9 August 2021:

MSN 270 Hong Kong Airlines A359 F-WZFT/B-LGJ, fifteenth test flight at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/270

Who is this going too? Airbus said they don't have anymore white tails? Or is HK finally taking them up?

DCA350 wrote:

audidudi wrote:

Latest movement for 9 August 2021:

MSN 270 Hong Kong Airlines A359 F-WZFT/B-LGJ, fifteenth test flight at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/270

Who is this going too? Airbus said they don't have anymore white tails? Or is HK finally taking them up?

I think either Airbus or the lessor is flying it occasionally to keep it in good condition and ready for sale if there is any. They have done so for few others HNA Group ntu, and some of them flew them to new storage sites.

Latest movement for 11 August 2021:

MSN 453 Iberia A359 F-WZGU/EC-NLP, ferried from CHR>TLS after storage:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/453

Latest movement for 12 August 2021:

MSN 393 Cathay Pacific A359 F-WZHE/B-LQC, engine run and taxi check at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/393

Any idea when will Emirates first A350 enter production?

eurotrader85 wrote:

Does anyone know what has happened at abcdlist.nl and why it has suddenly stopped being updated?

I just noticed that the list was updated yesterday, so Peter is back on his feet now!
https://www.abcdlist.nl/a350f/a350f.html#

xwb777 wrote:

Any idea when will Emirates first A350 enter production?

Delivery pre-covid wasn’t expected until May 2023. So unless they accelerate deliveries we still got 18+ months until we see it.

Polot wrote:

xwb777 wrote:

Any idea when will Emirates first A350 enter production?

Delivery pre-covid wasn’t expected until May 2023. So unless they accelerate deliveries we still got 18+ months until we see it.

Is that still happening? I thought they (Emirates) were dangling the possibility of an A350 order to try and get out of their last few A380s, but since they are still taking these, I thought the prospect of EK A350s had gone. Has EK confirmed that they are taking A350s (and how many)?

kaitak wrote:

Polot wrote:

xwb777 wrote:

Any idea when will Emirates first A350 enter production?

Delivery pre-covid wasn’t expected until May 2023. So unless they accelerate deliveries we still got 18+ months until we see it.

Is that still happening? I thought they (Emirates) were dangling the possibility of an A350 order to try and get out of their last few A380s, but since they are still taking these, I thought the prospect of EK A350s had gone. Has EK confirmed that they are taking A350s (and how many)?

Firm. https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... i-airshow/

There were no movements for 13 August 2021.

Does anybody know when JAL gets its first A350K? I wasn't able to find a production list.

kaitak wrote:

Polot wrote:

xwb777 wrote:

Any idea when will Emirates first A350 enter production?

Delivery pre-covid wasn’t expected until May 2023. So unless they accelerate deliveries we still got 18+ months until we see it.

Is that still happening? I thought they (Emirates) were dangling the possibility of an A350 order to try and get out of their last few A380s, but since they are still taking these, I thought the prospect of EK A350s had gone. Has EK confirmed that they are taking A350s (and how many)?

They have ordered 50 aircraft. Its a firm order as stated in their lastest financial results report.

DCA350 wrote:

Does anybody know when JAL gets its first A350K? I wasn't able to find a production list.

I believe the plan is in 2023.

mentaisupa wrote:

DCA350 wrote:

Does anybody know when JAL gets its first A350K? I wasn't able to find a production list.

I believe the plan is in 2023.

Thanks, so they really stretched out the schedule. I guess that will allow a like for like 777 replacement.

DCA350 wrote:

audidudi wrote:

Latest movement for 9 August 2021:

MSN 270 Hong Kong Airlines A359 F-WZFT/B-LGJ, fifteenth test flight at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/270

Who is this going too? Airbus said they don't have anymore white tails? Or is HK finally taking them up?

Maybe to Lufthansa?
At times, there has been talk of up to 5 additional A350s.

A359bw wrote:

DCA350 wrote:

audidudi wrote:

Latest movement for 9 August 2021:

MSN 270 Hong Kong Airlines A359 F-WZFT/B-LGJ, fifteenth test flight at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/270

Who is this going too? Airbus said they don't have anymore white tails? Or is HK finally taking them up?

Maybe to Lufthansa?
At times, there has been talk of up to 5 additional A350s.

Unless it flies again soon I wouldn’t read too much into the test flight, it’s been doing one approximately once a month.

Polot wrote:

A359bw wrote:

DCA350 wrote:

Who is this going too? Airbus said they don't have anymore white tails? Or is HK finally taking them up?

Maybe to Lufthansa?
At times, there has been talk of up to 5 additional A350s.

Unless it flies again soon I wouldn’t read too much into the test flight, it’s been doing one approximately once a month.

Yes but it has now been revived from storage in LDE and is moving in TLS more often than the last few months

A359bw wrote:

Polot wrote:

A359bw wrote:

Maybe to Lufthansa?
At times, there has been talk of up to 5 additional A350s.

Unless it flies again soon I wouldn’t read too much into the test flight, it’s been doing one approximately once a month.

Yes but it has now been revived from storage in LDE and is moving in TLS more often than the last few months

At this point who knows what’s going on with the frame. It was brought back to TLS in Jan, then back to LDE in April, then back to TLS in June. It spent most of 2020 in LDE, but all of 2019 in TLS (first flight was Nov 2018). Until it has regular flight tests multiple times rather than once a month I’m not sure we can really get that much information from its flights.

There were no movements for 16 August 2021.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/i ... 61.article

The 5 A350s are now being held centrally at IAG and will be placed at an airline in the group later in the future.

My two cents: I believe BA will get them and I think it will be the 1000

Opus99 wrote:

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/iag-retaining-former-aer-lingus-a350-order-to-gain-flexibility/144861.article

The 5 A350s are now being held centrally at IAG and will be placed at an airline in the group later in the future.

My two cents: I believe BA will get them and I think it will be the 1000

That makes sense.. 18 definitely isn't enough so I expect more, but I wouldn't discount Iberia getting some. Latin America is one of the few regions air travel is back to pre COVID levels in some markets..

Latest movements for 17 August 2021:

MSN 510 Air France A359 F-WWDW/F-HTYL, engines run and taxi check at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/510

MSN 535 Japan Airlines A359 F-WZGD/JA11XJ, third test flight at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/535

Opus99 wrote:

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/iag-retaining-former-aer-lingus-a350-order-to-gain-flexibility/144861.article

The 5 A350s are now being held centrally at IAG and will be placed at an airline in the group later in the future.

My two cents: I believe BA will get them and I think it will be the 1000

Maybe 1000s for IB?

JerseyFlyer wrote:

Opus99 wrote:

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/iag-retaining-former-aer-lingus-a350-order-to-gain-flexibility/144861.article

The 5 A350s are now being held centrally at IAG and will be placed at an airline in the group later in the future.

My two cents: I believe BA will get them and I think it will be the 1000

Maybe 1000s for IB?

Might that be too big for them? I know they had the 340-600s but the 900s seem to be their replacement and are doing more than a fine job. If it going IB then I think it will be the 900 they could utilise them well as well.

BA stood out for me because they still have a lot of widebodies to replace. I.e 77Es and the 1000 because of the slot constrained environment in which they operate. Obviously not at the moment!

JerseyFlyer wrote:

Opus99 wrote:

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/iag-retaining-former-aer-lingus-a350-order-to-gain-flexibility/144861.article

The 5 A350s are now being held centrally at IAG and will be placed at an airline in the group later in the future.

My two cents: I believe BA will get them and I think it will be the 1000

Maybe 1000s for IB?

I don't see the A35K fitting into Iberia current fleet because their A359 are C31W24Y293 that's 11 seats short of their similar A346 cabin layout.

Opus99 wrote:

BA stood out for me because they still have a lot of widebodies to replace. I.e 77Es and the 1000 because of the slot constrained environment in which they operate. Obviously not at the moment!

More -1000s seems likely for BA but I can't help believing that they'll take a bunch of -900s too. Maybe not these five orders but down the line.

PM wrote:

Opus99 wrote:

BA stood out for me because they still have a lot of widebodies to replace. I.e 77Es and the 1000 because of the slot constrained environment in which they operate. Obviously not at the moment!

More -1000s seems likely for BA but I can't help believing that they'll take a bunch of -900s too. Maybe not these five orders but down the line.

Yes, there’s a place for the 900 at BA especially as we come to the middle of the decade. I’m almost sure we will see more 350s at BA. Let’s not forget BA alone holds 36 options for the 350 family

Opus99 wrote:

PM wrote:

Opus99 wrote:

BA stood out for me because they still have a lot of widebodies to replace. I.e 77Es and the 1000 because of the slot constrained environment in which they operate. Obviously not at the moment!

More -1000s seems likely for BA but I can't help believing that they'll take a bunch of -900s too. Maybe not these five orders but down the line.

Yes, there’s a place for the 900 at BA especially as we come to the middle of the decade. I’m almost sure we will see more 350s at BA. Let’s not forget BA alone holds 36 options for the 350 family

There is definitely a place for the 900 as they have to start looking at the replacement of their 777-200ER fleet especially the older ones.

Latest movements for 19 August 2021:

MSN 459 Iberia A359 F-WWIW/EC-NMZ, ferried from TLS>LDE for storage:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/459

MSN 531 Japan Airlines A359 F-WZGX/JA10XJ, delivered from TLS>HND. #1 in August...#33 in 2021...##439 total:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/531

AECM wrote:

JerseyFlyer wrote:

Opus99 wrote:

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/iag-retaining-former-aer-lingus-a350-order-to-gain-flexibility/144861.article

The 5 A350s are now being held centrally at IAG and will be placed at an airline in the group later in the future.

My two cents: I believe BA will get them and I think it will be the 1000

Maybe 1000s for IB?

I don't see the A35K fitting into Iberia current fleet because their A359 are C31W24Y293 that's 11 seats short of their similar A346 cabin layout.

They have few routes like EZE, MEX, MIA which they can always fill up, I think they can eventually use the A35K when travel is back to normal.

Opus99 wrote:

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/iag-retaining-former-aer-lingus-a350-order-to-gain-flexibility/144861.article

The 5 A350s are now being held centrally at IAG and will be placed at an airline in the group later in the future.

My two cents: I believe BA will get them and I think it will be the 1000

That's one advantage IAG has, much like LHG, they can choose which of their airlines get which model. As noted, IB could operate a few A35Ks, as could BA operate the A359. AFAIR, a few years ago Walsh said the IB could even run the A380 on certain routes!

Latest movement for 20 August 2021:

MSN 537 Air China A359 F-WZNG/B-xxxx, engines run and taxi check at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/537

Latest movements for 24 August 2021:

MSN 342 Etihad Airways A350-1000 F-WZNM/F-WXAD/A6-XWD, delivered from BOD>AUH. This frame was "delivered on contract" on 30 September 2019, and was ferried to BOD for storage on 1 October 2019:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/342

MSN 393 Cathay Pacific A359 F-WZHE/B-LQC, eighth test and third customer acceptance flight at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/393

MSN 537 Air China A359 F-WZNG/B-xxxx, taxi check and RTO at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/537

Latest movements for 25 August 2021:

MSN 492 Virgin Atlantic Airways A350-1000 F-WZGM/G-VEVE, engines run and taxi check at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/492

MSN 536 Japan Airlines A359 F-WZHG/JA12XJ, second test flight at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/536

MSN 537 Air China A359 F-WZNG/B-xxxx, maiden test flight at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/537

Latest movements for 26 August 2021:

MSN 409 Qatar Airways a350-1000 F-WZND/A7-AOA, engines run and taxi check at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/409

MSN 492 Virgin Atlantic Airways A350-1000 F-WZGM/G-VEVE, taxi check and RTO at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/492

MSN 510 Air France A359 F-WWDW/F-HTYL, second test flight at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/510

audidudi wrote:

Latest movements for 26 August 2021:

MSN 409 Qatar Airways a350-1000 F-WZND/A7-AOA, engines run and taxi check at TLS:

This is the oldest QR A350 awaiting first flight. Might this be a hint that the Airbus-QR impasse has been resolved?

PM wrote:

audidudi wrote:

Latest movements for 26 August 2021:

MSN 409 Qatar Airways a350-1000 F-WZND/A7-AOA, engines run and taxi check at TLS:

This is the oldest QR A350 awaiting first flight. Might this be a hint that the Airbus-QR impasse has been resolved?

Given we haven’t heard much from Akbar in about 2 weeks? I think so. The whole Qatar regulators getting involved might have been the peak

Also believe this is first 35K with the 24J seating

Opus99 wrote:

PM wrote:

audidudi wrote:

Latest movements for 26 August 2021:

MSN 409 Qatar Airways a350-1000 F-WZND/A7-AOA, engines run and taxi check at TLS:

This is the oldest QR A350 awaiting first flight. Might this be a hint that the Airbus-QR impasse has been resolved?

Given we haven’t heard much from Akbar in about 2 weeks? I think so. The whole Qatar regulators getting involved might have been the peak

Fingers crossed.

G'day

audidudi wrote:

Latest movements for 26 August 2021:

MSN 409 Qatar Airways a350-1000 F-WZND/A7-AOA, engines run and taxi check at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/409

Don't the airline customers have to buy and pay for the engines that are used for testing their aircraft? So why would Qatar buy engines for aircraft that are no longer desired?

Cheers

Peter

Opus99 wrote:

PM wrote:

audidudi wrote:

Latest movements for 26 August 2021:

MSN 409 Qatar Airways a350-1000 F-WZND/A7-AOA, engines run and taxi check at TLS:

This is the oldest QR A350 awaiting first flight. Might this be a hint that the Airbus-QR impasse has been resolved?

Given we haven’t heard much from Akbar in about 2 weeks? I think so. The whole Qatar regulators getting involved might have been the peak

Also believe this is first 35K with the 24J seating

It's also the first in the A7-AOx series so I assume it's a different configuration.

Heavierthanair wrote:

G'day

audidudi wrote:

Latest movements for 26 August 2021:

MSN 409 Qatar Airways a350-1000 F-WZND/A7-AOA, engines run and taxi check at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/409

Don't the airline customers have to buy and pay for the engines that are used for testing their aircraft? So why would Qatar buy engines for aircraft that are no longer desired?

Cheers

Peter

Engine ready for delivery and engine installed are two significant commercial aircraft delivery and payment milestones, whether the engines have been contracted separately by the customer or as a package through the air frame OEM.

QR set the bar very high, and rightly so, while others, are less demanding, based on value, supplier relationship, proximity, etc.

For example, QR accept RR engines after test cell participation and data. Only accept engines as pairs (or quads on the A380), so if engine one is ready in Week 1, and engine two in Week 3, the payment milestone for both is Week 3.

Airbus was fitting mule engines for initial QR air frame testing, including RTO, and then replacing with customer engines for final testing and CAF, with all testing and CAF time at Airbus and RR cost. If no longer happening, will have been replaced by a credit.

The estimated value of the full order retrospective credit is treated as a warranty / withheld payment, subject to a guarantee issued by the customer's bank. The last payment is often on completion of customer acceptance, with true final payment due offset by accrued credits.

G'day

smartplane wrote:

Airbus was fitting mule engines for initial QR air frame testing, including RTO, and then replacing with customer engines for final testing and CAF, with all testing and CAF time at Airbus and RR cost. If no longer happening, will have been replaced by a credit.

Thanks for the insight, makes sense. Though, why would Airbus go through the expense of putting their own engines on an airframe if there is no realistic chance the thing may be delivered within a reasonable time frame. So I take it there was some kind of agreement between the parties, we likely will never get to know the details even once the deliveries restart

Cheers

Peter

Heavierthanair wrote:

G'day

smartplane wrote:

Airbus was fitting mule engines for initial QR air frame testing, including RTO, and then replacing with customer engines for final testing and CAF, with all testing and CAF time at Airbus and RR cost. If no longer happening, will have been replaced by a credit.

Thanks for the insight, makes sense. Though, why would Airbus go through the expense of putting their own engines on an airframe if there is no realistic chance the thing may be delivered within a reasonable time frame. So I take it there was some kind of agreement between the parties, we likely will never get to know the details even once the deliveries restart

Cheers

Peter

Airbus would fit engines for 2 reasons:
1. Operational.
To enable the aircraft to be stored off site. The engines may be removed and returned for re-use, although in the current environment of low production may sit on the aircraft. These engines may be owned by Airbus or RR (or even one by each). Engine OEM's supply a negotiated number of engines on sale or return to the air frame OEM. That number is usually higher if the engine OEM is exclusive.

2. Contract.
Airbus will progress through the contract milestones as far as possible. This clarifies which party has / is frustrating contract completion.

Latest movement for 27 August 2021:

MSN 409 Qatar Airways A350-1000 F-WZND/A7-AOA, taxi check and RTO at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/409

Latest movement for 28 August 2021:

MSN 524 Ethiopian Airlines A359 F-WZFH/ET-AYM, spotted at TLS in full c/s with engines installed:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/524

Latest movements for 30 August 2021:

MSN 492 Virgin Atlantic Airways A350-1000 F-WZGM/G-VEVE, taxi check and RTO at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/492

MSN 530 Delta Air Lines A359 F-WZHH/N516DN, spotted at TLS in primer without engines installed:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/530

Latest movements for 31 August 2021:

MSN 478 China Southern Airlines A359 F-WZFK/B-xxxx, engines run and taxi check at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/478

MSN 492 Virgin Atlantic Airways A350-1000 F-WZGM/G-VEVE, maiden test flight at TLS:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/492

MSN 526 Lufthansa Technik A359CJ F-WZHF/D-Axxx/10+02, spotted at TLS in primer with engines installed:

https://aibfamily.flights/A350/526