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stlgph
Posts: 11361
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:22 pm

June on American looks to be 45 flights or so a day - with some low hanging fruit (based on pre-COVID), at least, frequency adds which could definitely hit the 50 mark.
An add to Austin would be very telling about their confidence in the market.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 6121
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:27 pm

stlgph wrote:
June on American looks to be 45 flights or so a day - with some low hanging fruit (based on pre-COVID), at least, frequency adds which could definitely hit the 50 mark.
An add to Austin would be very telling about their confidence in the market.


This would get IND to 49:
ORD--8
CLT--9
DFW--7
NYC--3
PHL--6
PHX--2
LAX--2
MIA--4
DCA--6
BOS--2

Throw in a p2p route and future growth & that would get over the 50 hump. I don't think anyone has been greater than 50 flights/day at IND since NWA/DL, which was well over a decade ago.

Wacko55 wrote:
Depending on how serious AA is in AUS, I could definitely see a daily flight connecting the two on a E175.


I remember in 2019/2020 they announced AUS-BOS/SJC/SJD and a couple weeks later they announced BOS-IND/RDU, so I wouldn't be surprised if they have more in the pipeline.

I think they may go after IND-RDU, since DL is delaying their restart until late Q3
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 793
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:29 am

Midwestindy wrote:
stlgph wrote:
June on American looks to be 45 flights or so a day - with some low hanging fruit (based on pre-COVID), at least, frequency adds which could definitely hit the 50 mark.
An add to Austin would be very telling about their confidence in the market.


This would get IND to 49:
ORD--8
CLT--9
DFW--7
NYC--3
PHL--6
PHX--2
LAX--2
MIA--4
DCA--6
BOS--2

Throw in a p2p route and future growth & that would get over the 50 hump. I don't think anyone has been greater than 50 flights/day at IND since NWA/DL, which was well over a decade ago.

Wacko55 wrote:
Depending on how serious AA is in AUS, I could definitely see a daily flight connecting the two on a E175.


I remember in 2019/2020 they announced AUS-BOS/SJC/SJD and a couple weeks later they announced BOS-IND/RDU, so I wouldn't be surprised if they have more in the pipeline.

I think they may go after IND-RDU, since DL is delaying their restart until late Q3


This is very encouraging, of the 3 legacy carriers AA has been better about operating their published covid schedules. Does anyone know how many daily seats this is out of IND for AA?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:47 pm

Travel coming back

"NCAA Tournament fans will be coming and going from Indianapolis over the next three weeks. Spring break added to March Madness has Indianapolis International Airport ready for the biggest weekend of air travel since the pandemic began"

"The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) expects about 13,500 departures Saturday from Indianapolis International Airport. That would make for the busiest day through the security lines in over a year."

https://www.wthr.com/article/news/local ... cbf3f58de5

airplaneboy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
stlgph wrote:
June on American looks to be 45 flights or so a day - with some low hanging fruit (based on pre-COVID), at least, frequency adds which could definitely hit the 50 mark.
An add to Austin would be very telling about their confidence in the market.


This would get IND to 49:
ORD--8
CLT--9
DFW--7
NYC--3
PHL--6
PHX--2
LAX--2
MIA--4
DCA--6
BOS--2

Throw in a p2p route and future growth & that would get over the 50 hump. I don't think anyone has been greater than 50 flights/day at IND since NWA/DL, which was well over a decade ago.

Wacko55 wrote:
Depending on how serious AA is in AUS, I could definitely see a daily flight connecting the two on a E175.


I remember in 2019/2020 they announced AUS-BOS/SJC/SJD and a couple weeks later they announced BOS-IND/RDU, so I wouldn't be surprised if they have more in the pipeline.

I think they may go after IND-RDU, since DL is delaying their restart until late Q3


This is very encouraging, of the 3 legacy carriers AA has been better about operating their published covid schedules. Does anyone know how many daily seats this is out of IND for AA?


Pre-covid was max of ~4,500 seats (Indy 500 excluded), May '21 is a little under 3,000
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:13 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
AA's May schedule is quite nice to IND

Up to 30 flights/day, no 50 seaters, and LAX finally returns. 50 flights a day seems very attainable
IND-CLT-7
IND-DFW-6
IND-ORD-5
IND-DCA-3
IND-PHL-3
IND-MIA-2
IND-PHX-2
IND-LAX-1



DL will be returning JFK & LAX in May:

Up to 20 flights, only RJs except to ATL & LAX.
ATL--7
DTW--4
MSP--4
LGA--3
JFK--1
LAX--1


AA still running circles around DL in terms of capacity & flights


Assuming UA/DL resumes IND-SFO/SLC in May/June, all major domestic routes will have been restored. Still missing MCI & SAN
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
GSOtoIND
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:46 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:53 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
AA's May schedule is quite nice to IND

Up to 30 flights/day, no 50 seaters, and LAX finally returns. 50 flights a day seems very attainable
IND-CLT-7
IND-DFW-6
IND-ORD-5
IND-DCA-3
IND-PHL-3
IND-MIA-2
IND-PHX-2
IND-LAX-1



DL will be returning JFK & LAX in May:

Up to 20 flights, only RJs except to ATL & LAX.
ATL--7
DTW--4
MSP--4
LGA--3
JFK--1
LAX--1


AA still running circles around DL in terms of capacity & flights


Assuming UA/DL resumes IND-SFO/SLC in May/June, all major domestic routes will have been restored. Still missing MCI & SAN

BOS is still missing unless you count Allegiant starting their route at the end of the month.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:33 pm

GSOtoIND wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
AA's May schedule is quite nice to IND

Up to 30 flights/day, no 50 seaters, and LAX finally returns. 50 flights a day seems very attainable
IND-CLT-7
IND-DFW-6
IND-ORD-5
IND-DCA-3
IND-PHL-3
IND-MIA-2
IND-PHX-2
IND-LAX-1



DL will be returning JFK & LAX in May:

Up to 20 flights, only RJs except to ATL & LAX.
ATL--7
DTW--4
MSP--4
LGA--3
JFK--1
LAX--1


AA still running circles around DL in terms of capacity & flights


Assuming UA/DL resumes IND-SFO/SLC in May/June, all major domestic routes will have been restored. Still missing MCI & SAN

BOS is still missing unless you count Allegiant starting their route at the end of the month.


I was counting G4 to BOS, but you are right that it is a bit misleading considering it only operates for 2 days in May

I'm 99% sure DL will resume IND-BOS in June, they are restarting CMH-BOS 2x in May, and are already operating BNA, PIT, CLE, e.t.c.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:57 am

How does IND compare to their peer airports in terms of service ? PIT, CLE, CVG?
 
stlgph
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:52 am

Delta is IND to BOS is bookable from June 5.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Jshank83
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:55 am

stlgph wrote:
Delta is IND to BOS is bookable from June 5.


June schedule hasn’t been updated yet.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:55 pm

fedex1 wrote:
How does IND compare to their peer airports in terms of service ? PIT, CLE, CVG?


Using friday departures:
Image
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 793
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:40 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
fedex1 wrote:
How does IND compare to their peer airports in terms of service ? PIT, CLE, CVG?


Using friday departures:
Image


Thank you for doing this! I know this would be more time consuming, but I think total capacity/number of seats would be more meaningful. If you happen to have spare time, would you mind a graph illustrating capacity? It would be interfering to compare the two.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:12 pm

airplaneboy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
fedex1 wrote:
How does IND compare to their peer airports in terms of service ? PIT, CLE, CVG?


Using friday departures:
Image


Thank you for doing this! I know this would be more time consuming, but I think total capacity/number of seats would be more meaningful. If you happen to have spare time, would you mind a graph illustrating capacity? It would be interfering to compare the two.


Left out F9 & G4, because their schedules are inconsistent
Image

Personally, I prefer departures, because capacity can be misleading. A good example of this is MCO, if you are using capacity, MCO would be a focus city/small hub for every US airline.

Departures I think illustrates better the level of service/investment an airline has at an airport, more departures mean more gates/employees required, more capacity does not necessarily mean that. Plus more departures mean more options/service for passengers to decide from.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
Jshank83
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:00 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
airplaneboy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Using friday departures:
Image


Thank you for doing this! I know this would be more time consuming, but I think total capacity/number of seats would be more meaningful. If you happen to have spare time, would you mind a graph illustrating capacity? It would be interfering to compare the two.


Left out F9 & G4, because their schedules are inconsistent
Image

Personally, I prefer departures, because capacity can be misleading. A good example of this is MCO, if you are using capacity, MCO would be a focus city/small hub for every US airline.

Departures I think illustrates better the level of service/investment an airline has at an airport, more departures mean more gates/employees required, more capacity does not necessarily mean that. Plus more departures mean more options/service for passengers to decide from.


I think you need see both. You could have an airline *cough UA*, that runs tons of RJs to some station when WN/DL/AA are running mostly mainline. So UA could have 20% more departures a day but over 20% less passengers. Seeing three 50 seaters or two E175 = one 737/A320. Could be misleading.

That said, I also like departures over capacity because I think frequency matters a most but that can also really skew perception if plane size isn't factored in and one airline is heavy one way or the other.
 
N292UX
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:54 pm

With AA's recent p2p adds I wouldn't rule out AA adding a few p2p routes in the future. They just had an expansion at AUS and if that works out, I could easily see AA adding a E175 flight to AUS down the road. Not sure about few FL routes, UA already added IND-RSW and IND-MCO/FLL/TPA are already super competitive. They may just stay with IND-MIA for now. So probably IND-AUS is the best bet right now. Maybe IND-MSY too but not as likely.
 
airboss787
Posts: 315
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:42 am

https://hub.united.com/2021-03-25-unite ... 05573.html

Pretty cool expansion from UA. Nonstop flights from IND to Charleston, Hilton Head and Portland, ME all on the CRJ550. Never would have imagined UA to be flying these routes albeit seasonally. Congratulations to UA and IND and all the cities that have been expanded.
Star Alliance Gold
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:42 am

airboss787 wrote:
https://hub.united.com/2021-03-25-united-airlines-adds-new-direct-flights-to-coastal-vacation-destinations-starting-memorial-day-weekend-2651205573.html

Pretty cool expansion from UA. Nonstop flights from IND to Charleston, Hilton Head and Portland, ME all on the CRJ550. Never would have imagined UA to be flying these routes albeit seasonally. Congratulations to UA and IND and all the cities that have been expanded.


Yep plus, WN is adding IND-MYR 5x weekly. Might have to get down to IND to try some of these.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
kindeham
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:55 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:00 pm

airboss787 wrote:
https://hub.united.com/2021-03-25-united-airlines-adds-new-direct-flights-to-coastal-vacation-destinations-starting-memorial-day-weekend-2651205573.html

Pretty cool expansion from UA. Nonstop flights from IND to Charleston, Hilton Head and Portland, ME all on the CRJ550. Never would have imagined UA to be flying these routes albeit seasonally. Congratulations to UA and IND and all the cities that have been expanded.


I am curious what UA has up their sleeve for IND. Is this just sniping some random P2P routes, or is this part of some larger focus city strategy? If the later, I wonder if there is the potential for (FAR) in the future FRA. I guess my question is, if UA is the new DL? (Note: this is thinking outloud, this is not any suggestion that I think anything like this would happen anytime soon or even within a couple years at the current rate)
 
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SumChristianus
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:37 pm

kindeham wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
https://hub.united.com/2021-03-25-united-airlines-adds-new-direct-flights-to-coastal-vacation-destinations-starting-memorial-day-weekend-2651205573.html

Pretty cool expansion from UA. Nonstop flights from IND to Charleston, Hilton Head and Portland, ME all on the CRJ550. Never would have imagined UA to be flying these routes albeit seasonally. Congratulations to UA and IND and all the cities that have been expanded.


I am curious what UA has up their sleeve for IND. Is this just sniping some random P2P routes, or is this part of some larger focus city strategy? If the later, I wonder if there is the potential for (FAR) in the future FRA. I guess my question is, if UA is the new DL? (Note: this is thinking outloud, this is not any suggestion that I think anything like this would happen anytime soon or even within a couple years at the current rate)


Its not just Indianapolis. For UA its just about the Midwest which has seen pretty consistent (and now on an upswing with the rising tide around the country) leisure demand. United also added flights to these same destinations from Cleveland, Milwaukee, Columbus, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and Cincinnati with Indianapolis actually getting nearly the lowest number out of these new routes among the Midwestern cities. Expect these to end QUICKLY when business demand returns.
UA DL LH NW AA WN
"Gratia non tollit naturam, sed perficit"
 
kindeham
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:55 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:50 pm

SumChristianus wrote:
kindeham wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
https://hub.united.com/2021-03-25-united-airlines-adds-new-direct-flights-to-coastal-vacation-destinations-starting-memorial-day-weekend-2651205573.html

Pretty cool expansion from UA. Nonstop flights from IND to Charleston, Hilton Head and Portland, ME all on the CRJ550. Never would have imagined UA to be flying these routes albeit seasonally. Congratulations to UA and IND and all the cities that have been expanded.


I am curious what UA has up their sleeve for IND. Is this just sniping some random P2P routes, or is this part of some larger focus city strategy? If the later, I wonder if there is the potential for (FAR) in the future FRA. I guess my question is, if UA is the new DL? (Note: this is thinking outloud, this is not any suggestion that I think anything like this would happen anytime soon or even within a couple years at the current rate)


Its not just Indianapolis. For UA its just about the Midwest which has seen pretty consistent (and now on an upswing with the rising tide around the country) leisure demand. United also added flights to these same destinations from Cleveland, Milwaukee, Columbus, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and Cincinnati with Indianapolis actually getting nearly the lowest number out of these new routes among the Midwestern cities. Expect these to end QUICKLY when business demand returns.


This adds some context I did not know. So basically they are throwing aircraft on routes that are hot due to all the pent up demand. As soon as people blow some steam (and some stimulus money) they'll cancel these routes and return to "normal." Makes sense.
 
stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:52 pm

United Allegiant Airlines.

I'm loving it.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:52 pm

I guess WN is starting IND-MYR on June 6th.
IND to RDU to OKC in 18 months. This is what my life has become.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:20 pm

Indy wrote:
I guess WN is starting IND-MYR on June 6th.


I wonder what WN route is next....

My guesses in no particular order:

MIA
BNA
SAN
SAV
ECP
VPS
JAX
LAX
MDW

They've got these right now
Image
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
ibthebigd
Posts: 430
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:09 pm

To me ECP is the most surprising not served yet of the beach destinations.

I figured Southwest would start ECP before MYR.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
pmanni1
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:17 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:45 pm

My guess is BNA. MDW was recently discontinued and can't see it being added back anytime soon. ECP and VPS a possibility but it might be too far into the season to add them this year. SAV, MIA & JAX are all to WN hubs and no point to point yet. LAX & SAN have seen no action lately so probably not likely anytime soon.
 
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Midwestindy
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Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:06 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
My guess is BNA. MDW was recently discontinued and can't see it being added back anytime soon. ECP and VPS a possibility but it might be too far into the season to add them this year. SAV, MIA & JAX are all to WN hubs and no point to point yet. LAX & SAN have seen no action lately so probably not likely anytime soon.


I don't disagree on SAV, ECP, VPS, & JAX

MDW has been on/off for the past 3 years, but it was actually added back last summer, so if it was added back last summer during covid I can see it being operated in the future. It just should only be summer seasonal though, it performed terrible during winter.

I think WN will add IND-MIA sat only, I don't think WN is that strict with adding hubs before p2p. They added MSY in the initial IAH bunch, they've added AUS/MKE-VPS before ATL or BWI, e.t.c

SAN & LAX I think were punished schedule wise due to California's harsh COVID restrictions, we'll see if it is a temporary blip or a long term trend.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
Delta28L
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:15 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
To me ECP is the most surprising not served yet of the beach destinations.

I figured Southwest would start ECP before MYR.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I am surprised as well since ECP is a well established station for SWA. They would have the route to themselves and Saturday only service during spring break and the summer time would do well.
 
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Boiler905
Posts: 109
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:36 am

ibthebigd wrote:
To me ECP is the most surprising not served yet of the beach destinations.

I figured Southwest would start ECP before MYR.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I am also shocked WN doesn't serve IND-ECP (or PNS/VPS) yet. Especially MYR before one of these.

Midwestindy wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
My guess is BNA. MDW was recently discontinued and can't see it being added back anytime soon. ECP and VPS a possibility but it might be too far into the season to add them this year. SAV, MIA & JAX are all to WN hubs and no point to point yet. LAX & SAN have seen no action lately so probably not likely anytime soon.


I don't disagree on SAV, ECP, VPS, & JAX

MDW has been on/off for the past 3 years, but it was actually added back last summer, so if it was added back last summer during covid I can see it being operated in the future. It just should only be summer seasonal though, it performed terrible during winter.

I think WN will add IND-MIA sat only, I don't think WN is that strict with adding hubs before p2p. They added MSY in the initial IAH bunch, they've added AUS/MKE-VPS before ATL or BWI, e.t.c

SAN & LAX I think were punished schedule wise due to California's harsh COVID restrictions, we'll see if it is a temporary blip or a long term trend.


IND-BNA is an underdog route which won't show up in any industry data as a big opportunity, but anyone from IN or TN know that it's a big driving market. Although I doubt WN would add IND-BNA, they would need to do so at least 2x daily to allow for day-trips.

IND-BNA is 216nm.

Look at other popular driving, shorthaul markets WN serves:
DAL-SAT: 215nm
DAL-HOU: 208nm
DAL-AUS: 164nm

IND-BNA would work if the schedule is customer-friendly
Boiler Up
 
alpine1989
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 am

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:23 pm

Boiler905 wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
To me ECP is the most surprising not served yet of the beach destinations.

I figured Southwest would start ECP before MYR.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I am also shocked WN doesn't serve IND-ECP (or PNS/VPS) yet. Especially MYR before one of these.

Midwestindy wrote:
pmanni1 wrote:
My guess is BNA. MDW was recently discontinued and can't see it being added back anytime soon. ECP and VPS a possibility but it might be too far into the season to add them this year. SAV, MIA & JAX are all to WN hubs and no point to point yet. LAX & SAN have seen no action lately so probably not likely anytime soon.


I don't disagree on SAV, ECP, VPS, & JAX

MDW has been on/off for the past 3 years, but it was actually added back last summer, so if it was added back last summer during covid I can see it being operated in the future. It just should only be summer seasonal though, it performed terrible during winter.

I think WN will add IND-MIA sat only, I don't think WN is that strict with adding hubs before p2p. They added MSY in the initial IAH bunch, they've added AUS/MKE-VPS before ATL or BWI, e.t.c

SAN & LAX I think were punished schedule wise due to California's harsh COVID restrictions, we'll see if it is a temporary blip or a long term trend.


IND-BNA is an underdog route which won't show up in any industry data as a big opportunity, but anyone from IN or TN know that it's a big driving market. Although I doubt WN would add IND-BNA, they would need to do so at least 2x daily to allow for day-trips.

IND-BNA is 216nm.

Look at other popular driving, shorthaul markets WN serves:
DAL-SAT: 215nm
DAL-HOU: 208nm
DAL-AUS: 164nm

IND-BNA would work if the schedule is customer-friendly


BNA offers additional connection opportunities and will see more growth compared to ATL.

Daily departures March schedule:

ATL = 93
BNA = 102
 
stlgph
Posts: 11361
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:31 pm

Sure, if you want to fly to Nashville to turn right around and fly to places such as Chicago Midway, Detroit, Minneapolis St Paul, Milwaukee, Columbus, and a slew of other destinations you can get to through Baltimore....
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:54 pm

alpine1989 wrote:
Boiler905 wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
To me ECP is the most surprising not served yet of the beach destinations.

I figured Southwest would start ECP before MYR.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I am also shocked WN doesn't serve IND-ECP (or PNS/VPS) yet. Especially MYR before one of these.

Midwestindy wrote:

I don't disagree on SAV, ECP, VPS, & JAX

MDW has been on/off for the past 3 years, but it was actually added back last summer, so if it was added back last summer during covid I can see it being operated in the future. It just should only be summer seasonal though, it performed terrible during winter.

I think WN will add IND-MIA sat only, I don't think WN is that strict with adding hubs before p2p. They added MSY in the initial IAH bunch, they've added AUS/MKE-VPS before ATL or BWI, e.t.c

SAN & LAX I think were punished schedule wise due to California's harsh COVID restrictions, we'll see if it is a temporary blip or a long term trend.


IND-BNA is an underdog route which won't show up in any industry data as a big opportunity, but anyone from IN or TN know that it's a big driving market. Although I doubt WN would add IND-BNA, they would need to do so at least 2x daily to allow for day-trips.

IND-BNA is 216nm.

Look at other popular driving, shorthaul markets WN serves:
DAL-SAT: 215nm
DAL-HOU: 208nm
DAL-AUS: 164nm

IND-BNA would work if the schedule is customer-friendly


BNA offers additional connection opportunities and will see more growth compared to ATL.

Daily departures March schedule:

ATL = 93
BNA = 102


BNA is going to be up to 133 departures per day during the summer (not including additional adds WN is bound to make), WN is almost tripping over themselves trying to add new routes from BNA.

It would be very surprising if IND-BNA wasn't added in the next year or so.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:25 pm

Indianapolis ranked #7 in the world by Kayak in terms of increases in flight searches, and #24 in % of flights searches vs 2019. Also the highest hotel occupancy in the country the past 3 weekends.

Image

https://www.kayak.com/flight-trends
ORD & IND

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Runway765
Posts: 375
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:36 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
alpine1989 wrote:
Boiler905 wrote:

I am also shocked WN doesn't serve IND-ECP (or PNS/VPS) yet. Especially MYR before one of these.



IND-BNA is an underdog route which won't show up in any industry data as a big opportunity, but anyone from IN or TN know that it's a big driving market. Although I doubt WN would add IND-BNA, they would need to do so at least 2x daily to allow for day-trips.

IND-BNA is 216nm.

Look at other popular driving, shorthaul markets WN serves:
DAL-SAT: 215nm
DAL-HOU: 208nm
DAL-AUS: 164nm

IND-BNA would work if the schedule is customer-friendly


BNA offers additional connection opportunities and will see more growth compared to ATL.

Daily departures March schedule:

ATL = 93
BNA = 102


BNA is going to be up to 133 departures per day during the summer (not including additional adds WN is bound to make), WN is almost tripping over themselves trying to add new routes from BNA.

It would be very surprising if IND-BNA wasn't added in the next year or so.


I don't know if I'd go that far ("WN is almost tripping over themselves trying to add new routes from BNA"), they've added a lot of a lot of places as of late. However, BNA is an easier connecting point than ATL as the airport is much less congested. I am shocked IND-BNA isn't already here.
 
ibthebigd
Posts: 430
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:04 pm

Thank you NCAA!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:06 pm

Runway765 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
alpine1989 wrote:

BNA offers additional connection opportunities and will see more growth compared to ATL.

Daily departures March schedule:

ATL = 93
BNA = 102


BNA is going to be up to 133 departures per day during the summer (not including additional adds WN is bound to make), WN is almost tripping over themselves trying to add new routes from BNA.

It would be very surprising if IND-BNA wasn't added in the next year or so.


I don't know if I'd go that far ("WN is almost tripping over themselves trying to add new routes from BNA"), they've added a lot of a lot of places as of late. However, BNA is an easier connecting point than ATL as the airport is much less congested. I am shocked IND-BNA isn't already here.


All these have been announced in just the past few months, and WN has another extension coming in a couple days. I stick to my statement about tripping over themselves

ISP
MIA
SAV
MYR
VPS
IAH
BDL
SRQ
ORD
SNA
SLC

Announced in 2019 to start in 2020
SJU
PWM
PDX (Not on schedule yet)
ORD & IND

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Runway765
Posts: 375
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:15 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

BNA is going to be up to 133 departures per day during the summer (not including additional adds WN is bound to make), WN is almost tripping over themselves trying to add new routes from BNA.

It would be very surprising if IND-BNA wasn't added in the next year or so.


I don't know if I'd go that far ("WN is almost tripping over themselves trying to add new routes from BNA"), they've added a lot of a lot of places as of late. However, BNA is an easier connecting point than ATL as the airport is much less congested. I am shocked IND-BNA isn't already here.


All these have been announced in just the past few months, and WN has another extension coming in a couple days. I stick to my statement about tripping over themselves

ISP
MIA
SAV
MYR
VPS
IAH
BDL
SRQ
ORD
SNA
SLC

Announced in 2019 to start in 2020
SJU
PWM
PDX (Not on schedule yet)


I stand corrected, you are spot on. Very odd considering BNA isn't a crew base.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:30 pm

ibthebigd wrote:
Thank you NCAA!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Crazy inbound and outbound demand & fares for non-Florida routes.

Everything to Texas is basically sold out (DFW-IND completely sold out on Friday, they even upguaged a section to the A321)

EWR-IND sold out Thursday, with Friday & Saturday going for $1,400+ a seat

UA IND-DEN sold out on Friday, with Saturday going for $1,600 a seat

IND-ORD is completely sold out across both UA and AA on Friday

SEA-IND sold out on Friday

IND-CLT down to only 1 flight available on Friday

IND-MIA sold out Friday & Saturday

The list goes on....

:spin:
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N292UX
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:56 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
Thank you NCAA!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Crazy inbound and outbound demand & fares for non-Florida routes.

Everything to Texas is basically sold out (DFW-IND completely sold out on Friday, they even upguaged a section to the A321)

EWR-IND sold out Thursday, with Friday & Saturday going for $1,400+ a seat

UA IND-DEN sold out on Friday, with Saturday going for $1,600 a seat

IND-ORD is completely sold out across both UA and AA on Friday

SEA-IND sold out on Friday

IND-CLT down to only 1 flight available on Friday

IND-MIA sold out Friday & Saturday

The list goes on....

:spin:

Not surprising that all the Texas flights are totally sold out. Depending on what happens tonight, I imagine DTW-IND may be sell out pretty fast, too.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:05 pm

Fun, although not sure why FX wouldn't handle this :

Image
Image

A few other inbound: CPS, TPA, SLC, PHL, CLT, & MDW

https://www.deltacargo.com/content/carg ... le_MAR.pdf
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stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:25 pm

Well, if i'm Delta Cargo, not exactly sure I would call up FedEx and have them do the job for me.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:07 pm

stlgph wrote:
Well, if i'm Delta Cargo, not exactly sure I would call up FedEx and have them do the job for me.


I'm talking about the cargo provider, not Delta.

Why they would choose to send their cargo through DL, when FX has numerous flights to all those cities a day and better cargo facilities.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:20 pm

All airlines have updated May now, although we may(no pun intended) see some additional flights from WN like every other month:

Using May 21st date (which excludes post-memorial day adds)

Green = pre-covid frequency OR greater, compared to May 2019
:checkmark: = new route announced in 2020
:redflag: = airline/route not operating or cancelled VS May 2019, I included Sat/Sun only routes, but did not include seasonal routes

AA: 30
DFW--6
CLT--7
ORD--5
PHL--3
MIA--2
PHX--2
DCA--3
LGA--1
LAX--1
:redflag:: JFK, BOS (I included even though BOS wasn't announced until 2020)

WN: 27
ATL--2
BWI--2
DAL--1
HOU--2
LAS--2
PHX--2
DEN--3
MCO--4
TPA--3
RSW--2
FLL--2

:checkmark: AUS--1 (Previously seasonal Sunday only)
:checkmark: SRQ--1
:redflag:: STL (same as BOS above), OAK, MDW, BOS, MSY, MCI, LAX

DL: 21
ATL--7
DTW--4
MSP--5
LGA--3
JFK--1
LAX--1
:redflag:: CDG, SLC, SEA, MCO, BOS

UA: 16
ORD--6
IAD--2
EWR--3
DEN--2
IAH--3
:redflag:: SFO

NK: 6
MCO--2
RSW--1
:checkmark: FLL--1
TPA--1
LAS--1

:redflag:: MYR

*Used daily average for the week of May 21st since G4 and F9 are more inconsistent

G4: 2.87
PIE-0.71
PGD-0.57
FLL-0.43
SFB-0.29
SRQ-0.29
PBI-0.29
VPS-0.29
:redflag:: AUS, JAX, SAV, LAS, MYR

F9: 2
MCO--0.86
DEN--0.57
LAS--0.57

AS: 1
SEA--1

:redflag:: AC


As mentioned upthread, insane LFs this weekend (and looks like next weekend as well), tomorrow AA/DL/AS/UA only have a combined 10 flights left out of IND for sale.

IND-CLT is going for $1,700 one-way, same thing inbound, so many other flights over $1k inbound and outbound. Can't remember anything like this at IND since 2012.

Almost like airlines forgot the Final Four & Spring Break were happening at the same time.

Edit:

Sensing a pattern......December 2020 (most up-to-date LF)
NK-IND was the 4th highest LF network wide
WN-6th
UA-8th
G4-11th
F9-12th
ORD & IND

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garybow
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:56 am

Confused. So there will be no nonstops to SFO even tho UA is running that route now?
 
GSOtoIND
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:49 am

garybow wrote:
Confused. So there will be no nonstops to SFO even tho UA is running that route now?

Looks like the route isn't running this month either. The afternoon DEN flight got downgauged to an Embraer for April as well. It was on an Airbus during March, but it does go back to mainline for May.
 
garybow
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:35 am

It ran last week
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:27 pm

garybow wrote:
Confused. So there will be no nonstops to SFO even tho UA is running that route now?


They are not currently running the route (see link below), they were running it for a while during COVID presumably for Roche, but it is currently temporarily suspended

The list I posted above is what airlines are running in May

https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... 0310114708
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ATAIndy
Posts: 655
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:21 pm

Thanks for the breakdown Midwest... good to track the recovery progress. So is WN to AUS 1x DAILY now or just Sunday only? Would be great to have daily service to AUS.

As far as UA SFO goes, that seems to be the most significant domestic route not resumed yet in my opinion. That or DL to SLC. Also a little surprised that G4 is yielding LAS entirely to F9 and NK.
Boiler up!
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:56 pm

ATAIndy wrote:
Thanks for the breakdown Midwest... good to track the recovery progress. So is WN to AUS 1x DAILY now or just Sunday only? Would be great to have daily service to AUS.

As far as UA SFO goes, that seems to be the most significant domestic route not resumed yet in my opinion. That or DL to SLC. Also a little surprised that G4 is yielding LAS entirely to F9 and NK.


WN is running currently running AUS 4x weekly (no TUE/WED/SAT), in May WN is moving AUS to daily except on Saturdays. So IND will finally have a daily flight to AUS!

I think G4 is a bit scared of going h2h with F9 & NK unless it is a major Florida route. I think this is partially why they have diversified in IND to places like LAX, BOS, TUS, e.t.c. G4 is still on LAS, just not running it during off-peak seasons (ends next week and resumes the last week of May, then another break for August & September).

Agreed, SFO & SLC are big holes, but I guarantee both will return. SFO was 2x daily and SLC was supposed to go 2x daily until AS went 2x daily on SEA.
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garybow
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:30 pm

UA-SFO scheduled tonight for 8pm departure
 
GSOtoIND
Posts: 185
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:34 am

garybow wrote:
UA-SFO scheduled tonight for 8pm departure

I noticed that when I looked at the flight monitors earlier. Perhaps it's just running until the end of the Sportsball shindig?
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