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GSOtoIND
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:37 am

Another noteworthy schedule fact: AA's last ORD flight of the day this month is mainline (A319).
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:42 am

GSOtoIND wrote:
garybow wrote:
UA-SFO scheduled tonight for 8pm departure

I noticed that when I looked at the flight monitors earlier. Perhaps it's just running until the end of the Sportsball shindig?


Oh if you are using the airports monitors to check what flights are running, they are not currently accurate:

This is taken from the montiors, notice no gate number, and check the flight number on flightradar, it does not exist:

Image

None of the above flights took off, I think it is using an old schedule for some reason:
Image

Not on UA cargo either:
Image
https://booking.unitedcargo.com/skychain/app
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
Indy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:42 am

AirportRival wrote:
RAP is only for two weeks for Sturgis.


I'm just now seeing this. I wonder how this is selling. Seems weird running this flight for an event that is mainly a motorcycle event. How many people actually fly to RAP for the event instead of riding their bikes to it?
IND to RDU to OKC in 18 months. This is what my life has become.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:11 am

Question:
Wexford's Sterling Airways, run by former Republic Airways COO Wayne Heller, received Part 121 certification as an EMB-145 operator on March 16th, and can resume scheduled ops. https://www.prweb.com/releases/sterling ... 798497.htm This is the former VIA Airways certificate, "DBA" as Sterling Airways. HQ is listed as Jacksonville, but all of the top folks are from Indianapolis.

Another article notes that Sterling will be operating 1-3 aircraft the first year, in "At least" 3 states. Given that the cities involved in the Authority contract given to Contour are no longer listed on their website, could this be going to Sterling?
 
Jake1993P
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:49 am

Noticed a sign posted on the Sky Club door as I was flying out of IND yesterday, said the club will reopen 4/13.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:49 pm

Jake1993P wrote:
Noticed a sign posted on the Sky Club door as I was flying out of IND yesterday, said the club will reopen 4/13.


Good news on the club, although DL looks like it's retreating sizably in IND.

In 2019, DL would use 11 different gates per day for flying, checking by gates used today, DL is only using 5 gates, while AA is using 9!, WN using 7, & even UA using 6.

NK is now using one of the gates DL was using for flying, and I believe IND will put SY at one of the gates DL was using in 2019. So it looks like DL's potential in IND will be limited at this point, even if they wanted to expand.

Side note: All B gates are being used, A currently has 3 unused gates(not including int'l gates).
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
GSOtoIND
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:01 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Jake1993P wrote:
Noticed a sign posted on the Sky Club door as I was flying out of IND yesterday, said the club will reopen 4/13.


Good news on the club, although DL looks like it's retreating sizably in IND.

In 2019, DL would use 11 different gates per day for flying, checking by gates used today, DL is only using 5 gates, while AA is using 9!, WN using 7, & even UA using 6.

NK is now using one of the gates DL was using for flying, and I believe IND will put SY at one of the gates DL was using in 2019. So it looks like DL's potential in IND will be limited at this point, even if they wanted to expand.

Side note: All B gates are being used, A currently has 3 unused gates(not including int'l gates).

The gate usage differences are actually a bit more stark if you focus on gates used during the day, rather than just RONs. Delta really only uses A6 and A8 for turns, while AA uses B6-B9 heavily and B10 and B14 at least once during the day. It'll be interesting to see where SY goes. Do we know who their ground handler will be? It would make sense for them to locate near another airline using the same company. I know they've typically used one of G4's gates for domestic charters and A4 for international ones. I've heard they might use A4 since they're only scheduling a single midday turn (MSP-IND-MSP, then MSP-IND-MCO/MCO-IND-MSP in the fall) twice a week, so their gate usage is going to be minimal.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:26 pm

GSOtoIND wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Jake1993P wrote:
Noticed a sign posted on the Sky Club door as I was flying out of IND yesterday, said the club will reopen 4/13.


Good news on the club, although DL looks like it's retreating sizably in IND.

In 2019, DL would use 11 different gates per day for flying, checking by gates used today, DL is only using 5 gates, while AA is using 9!, WN using 7, & even UA using 6.

NK is now using one of the gates DL was using for flying, and I believe IND will put SY at one of the gates DL was using in 2019. So it looks like DL's potential in IND will be limited at this point, even if they wanted to expand.

Side note: All B gates are being used, A currently has 3 unused gates(not including int'l gates).

The gate usage differences are actually a bit more stark if you focus on gates used during the day, rather than just RONs. Delta really only uses A6 and A8 for turns, while AA uses B6-B9 heavily and B10 and B14 at least once during the day. It'll be interesting to see where SY goes. Do we know who their ground handler will be? It would make sense for them to locate near another airline using the same company. I know they've typically used one of G4's gates for domestic charters and A4 for international ones. I've heard they might use A4 since they're only scheduling a single midday turn (MSP-IND-MSP, then MSP-IND-MCO/MCO-IND-MSP in the fall) twice a week, so their gate usage is going to be minimal.


That's true, DL is essentially only really using 2 gates, which is wild given 2019. Total gates used does catch my attention though, because it adds a sizable amount of cost to operate from gates you don't lease let alone at only once/day.

SY is going to A, the airport already moved F9 over to A to make room in B, so they won't add another carrier over there IMO (not sure what will happen when/if B6 comes since they'll want to be next to AA). Not sure who ground handling will be for SY though.

They'll probably put SY at either A15 or A4, depending on how the airport manages the use of A4/A5. I don't think the airport would want SY at A4/A5 permanently, since they would get in the way of int'l flights. I agree though, SY is low hassle given how few flights they operate, so they don't need a dedicated gate.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
Jshank83
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:44 pm

^SY they basically should be able to move around however they want. I don't think they rent gates at small out stations, it is all per turn. Contour pushed SY off their original gate at STL. So where they start first doesn't mean much
 
indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:07 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Jake1993P wrote:
Noticed a sign posted on the Sky Club door as I was flying out of IND yesterday, said the club will reopen 4/13.


Good news on the club, although DL looks like it's retreating sizably in IND.

In 2019, DL would use 11 different gates per day for flying, checking by gates used today, DL is only using 5 gates, while AA is using 9!, WN using 7, & even UA using 6.

NK is now using one of the gates DL was using for flying, and I believe IND will put SY at one of the gates DL was using in 2019. So it looks like DL's potential in IND will be limited at this point, even if they wanted to expand.

Side note: All B gates are being used, A currently has 3 unused gates(not including int'l gates).


I think it will be really interesting to see how DL picks back up in IND. They've obviously dropped the FL routes, CDG, RDU and all they tried recently was MEM for a hot minute.

Meanwhile AA is still launching BOS/LGA from IND + now their partnership with AS opens up PHX, LAX and SEA on the West Coast. I think AA is shaping up to steal some long-term thunder from DL unless the latter has some build-up in store.
 
Runway765
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:47 am

indygs wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Jake1993P wrote:
Noticed a sign posted on the Sky Club door as I was flying out of IND yesterday, said the club will reopen 4/13.


Good news on the club, although DL looks like it's retreating sizably in IND.

In 2019, DL would use 11 different gates per day for flying, checking by gates used today, DL is only using 5 gates, while AA is using 9!, WN using 7, & even UA using 6.

NK is now using one of the gates DL was using for flying, and I believe IND will put SY at one of the gates DL was using in 2019. So it looks like DL's potential in IND will be limited at this point, even if they wanted to expand.

Side note: All B gates are being used, A currently has 3 unused gates(not including int'l gates).


I think it will be really interesting to see how DL picks back up in IND. They've obviously dropped the FL routes, CDG, RDU and all they tried recently was MEM for a hot minute.

Meanwhile AA is still launching BOS/LGA from IND + now their partnership with AS opens up PHX, LAX and SEA on the West Coast. I think AA is shaping up to steal some long-term thunder from DL unless the latter has some build-up in store.


I wonder if an Admirals Club is in the future?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:21 pm

indygs wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Jake1993P wrote:
Noticed a sign posted on the Sky Club door as I was flying out of IND yesterday, said the club will reopen 4/13.


Good news on the club, although DL looks like it's retreating sizably in IND.

In 2019, DL would use 11 different gates per day for flying, checking by gates used today, DL is only using 5 gates, while AA is using 9!, WN using 7, & even UA using 6.

NK is now using one of the gates DL was using for flying, and I believe IND will put SY at one of the gates DL was using in 2019. So it looks like DL's potential in IND will be limited at this point, even if they wanted to expand.

Side note: All B gates are being used, A currently has 3 unused gates(not including int'l gates).


I think it will be really interesting to see how DL picks back up in IND. They've obviously dropped the FL routes, CDG, RDU and all they tried recently was MEM for a hot minute.

Meanwhile AA is still launching BOS/LGA from IND + now their partnership with AS opens up PHX, LAX and SEA on the West Coast. I think AA is shaping up to steal some long-term thunder from DL unless the latter has some build-up in store.


Yep I agree, DL just permanently cut one of the IND-BOS frequencies. So they are already down to only 36-38 departures in their placeholder schedule, with MCO & CDG gone. We'll see if/when SEA & RDU resume, but if they let go of any more routes it could open up the door for more growth from other carriers.

AA's goal is to become the airline of choice in the "heartland," and they said in 2020 IND is a market they weren't serving as much as they should.....

Runway765 wrote:
indygs wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Good news on the club, although DL looks like it's retreating sizably in IND.

In 2019, DL would use 11 different gates per day for flying, checking by gates used today, DL is only using 5 gates, while AA is using 9!, WN using 7, & even UA using 6.

NK is now using one of the gates DL was using for flying, and I believe IND will put SY at one of the gates DL was using in 2019. So it looks like DL's potential in IND will be limited at this point, even if they wanted to expand.

Side note: All B gates are being used, A currently has 3 unused gates(not including int'l gates).


I think it will be really interesting to see how DL picks back up in IND. They've obviously dropped the FL routes, CDG, RDU and all they tried recently was MEM for a hot minute.

Meanwhile AA is still launching BOS/LGA from IND + now their partnership with AS opens up PHX, LAX and SEA on the West Coast. I think AA is shaping up to steal some long-term thunder from DL unless the latter has some build-up in store.


I wonder if an Admirals Club is in the future?


It would have to be a small one, the IND terminal wasn't designed well for lounges, the existing Sky Club is pretty small.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:56 pm

Delta's lounge was probably built to be small. They weren't exactly running 100+ flights per day out of there.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:16 pm

NK and F9 have updated their summer schedules:

By flights
NK +170% in June vs June 2019
F9 +38% in June vs June 2019
G4 +12% in June vs June 2019

stlgph wrote:
Delta's lounge was probably built to be small. They weren't exactly running 100+ flights per day out of there.


a) It wasn't intentionally built small, it's a layout issue I believe. My understanding is the place they could put a club is the space between TSA and the concourse, which is already a small space, plus the space needs to be further shrunk because of employee hallways to get to/from the concourses.

b) I believe the IND club is the smallest in the network, while at the same time they had a larger network from IND than PBI, PHL, PHX, EWR, MSY, MKE, JAX, e.t.c. Plus the FF base from the NWA focus city days.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:37 pm

IND is no AUS but I do wonder if there's a chapter of the post-COVID recovery where we see a bit of a dump of seats in markets such as IND to try and wrestle away market share for the long-term, almost like what NW did back when ATA retreated and they burst on to the scene. Yes, the conditions are vastly different than they were then, but the incremental difference for DL or AA to add some P2P routes in addition to what they have now wouldn't be as significant as the build up of NW back then. And I've got to think there will still be incentive dollars from the state and city that could be tapped.
 
iFlyDTW
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:43 pm

I feel like Indianapolis punches under its weight. While it would be no bustling hub for a legacy carrier, the potential is there with a similar vision to ATA but serving top leisure markets on A319's or 737-700's with token service to places like Portland (OR), San Diego and many places within Mexico.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:28 am

indygs wrote:
IND is no AUS but I do wonder if there's a chapter of the post-COVID recovery where we see a bit of a dump of seats in markets such as IND to try and wrestle away market share for the long-term, almost like what NW did back when ATA retreated and they burst on to the scene. Yes, the conditions are vastly different than they were then, but the incremental difference for DL or AA to add some P2P routes in addition to what they have now wouldn't be as significant as the build up of NW back then. And I've got to think there will still be incentive dollars from the state and city that could be tapped.


Slight tangent, but it is related to this:

The DOT O&D survey for Q4 2020 came out yesterday, it essentially is the public basis for PDEW measurements for route pairs in the US. It was very interesting to see how airline market share shifted in IND during COVID.

One route that caught my eye in particular was IND-BOS, while PDEW was only ~44 in Q4 (down from 250 in Q4 2019), AA passengers made up 40% of that traffic compared to DL's 32%.

It wasn't just at BOS that AA gained market share, AA surpassed DL's market share on IND-RDU which was another DL stronghold from IND, and one of the strongest DL routes from RDU. AA was also much larger than DL on IND-LAX, and carried nearly 30 PDEW on IND-RSW in Q4 without even offering a nonstop.

Now, I understand that COVID caused certain market dynamics to temporarily change, however, I think this is a sign of things to come especially on routes like IND-BOS where DL just removed 1 of its frequencies permanently.

My eyes would be on AUS, RDU, or Florida if AA were to add additional p2p from IND.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:15 am

Midwestindy wrote:
indygs wrote:
IND is no AUS but I do wonder if there's a chapter of the post-COVID recovery where we see a bit of a dump of seats in markets such as IND to try and wrestle away market share for the long-term, almost like what NW did back when ATA retreated and they burst on to the scene. Yes, the conditions are vastly different than they were then, but the incremental difference for DL or AA to add some P2P routes in addition to what they have now wouldn't be as significant as the build up of NW back then. And I've got to think there will still be incentive dollars from the state and city that could be tapped.


Slight tangent, but it is related to this:

The DOT O&D survey for Q4 2020 came out yesterday, it essentially is the public basis for PDEW measurements for route pairs in the US. It was very interesting to see how airline market share shifted in IND during COVID.

One route that caught my eye in particular was IND-BOS, while PDEW was only ~44 in Q4 (down from 250 in Q4 2019), AA passengers made up 40% of that traffic compared to DL's 32%.

It wasn't just at BOS that AA gained market share, AA surpassed DL's market share on IND-RDU which was another DL stronghold from IND, and one of the strongest DL routes from RDU. AA was also much larger than DL on IND-LAX, and carried nearly 30 PDEW on IND-RSW in Q4 without even offering a nonstop.

Now, I understand that COVID caused certain market dynamics to temporarily change, however, I think this is a sign of things to come especially on routes like IND-BOS where DL just removed 1 of its frequencies permanently.

My eyes would be on AUS, RDU, or Florida if AA were to add additional p2p from IND.


And if I am not mistaken, I believe IND-BOS was one of the most profitable routes for DL, not just out of BOS but pretty far up there domestically inclusive of mainline. Along with LGA, there were rumblings that one frequency might get the Indy 500 weekend treatment of an upgauge to a 319 or 220.

What I also find interesting, although just on an ERJ, IND has retained its JFK route on AA as well. Not much O&D there but somewhat surprised it hasn't been scrapped like most of the rest of the RJs out of JFK for AA.
 
stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:52 pm

No idea how this notion ever came here that IND-BOS was one of the most profitable routes for Delta.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:15 pm

stlgph wrote:
No idea how this notion ever came here that IND-BOS was one of the most profitable routes for Delta.


From IND or BOS it certainly was, especially after WN dropped it. They were getting great yields from CVG & IND to BOS, comparatively these routes were way above average, especially given how competitive most of DL's BOS network is.

It was discussed in this thread last year I believe.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:16 pm

Rumor has it SEA will return in the summer and DL will go from the current 15 departures to 30 by mid-summer.
 
stlgph
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:57 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
stlgph wrote:
No idea how this notion ever came here that IND-BOS was one of the most profitable routes for Delta.


From IND or BOS it certainly was, especially after WN dropped it. They were getting great yields from CVG & IND to BOS, comparatively these routes were way above average, especially given how competitive most of DL's BOS network is.

It was discussed in this thread last year I believe.


It was discussed in complete and total theory.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:20 pm

stlgph wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
stlgph wrote:
No idea how this notion ever came here that IND-BOS was one of the most profitable routes for Delta.


From IND or BOS it certainly was, especially after WN dropped it. They were getting great yields from CVG & IND to BOS, comparatively these routes were way above average, especially given how competitive most of DL's BOS network is.

It was discussed in this thread last year I believe.


It was discussed in complete and total theory.


It was not....... there is a whole article about it from a former network planner:

As you can clearly see it performed way above average, as has been reiterated several times over the past few years.

Image

Image

https://www.flydataguy.com/2020/01/amer ... irect.html

indygs wrote:
Rumor has it SEA will return in the summer and DL will go from the current 15 departures to 30 by mid-summer.


Would be very surprised if that happened, they currently only have 34 departures in their summer placeholder schedule.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:19 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Would be very surprised if that happened, they currently only have 34 departures in their summer placeholder schedule.


We can hope, can't we?! ;-)
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:46 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
indygs wrote:
IND is no AUS but I do wonder if there's a chapter of the post-COVID recovery where we see a bit of a dump of seats in markets such as IND to try and wrestle away market share for the long-term, almost like what NW did back when ATA retreated and they burst on to the scene. Yes, the conditions are vastly different than they were then, but the incremental difference for DL or AA to add some P2P routes in addition to what they have now wouldn't be as significant as the build up of NW back then. And I've got to think there will still be incentive dollars from the state and city that could be tapped.


One route that caught my eye in particular was IND-BOS, while PDEW was only ~44 in Q4 (down from 250 in Q4 2019), AA passengers made up 40% of that traffic compared to DL's 32%.

It wasn't just at BOS that AA gained market share, AA surpassed DL's market share on IND-RDU which was another DL stronghold from IND, and one of the strongest DL routes from RDU. AA was also much larger than DL on IND-LAX, and carried nearly 30 PDEW on IND-RSW in Q4 without even offering a nonstop.

Now, I understand that COVID caused certain market dynamics to temporarily change, however, I think this is a sign of things to come especially on routes like IND-BOS where DL just removed 1 of its frequencies permanently.

My eyes would be on AUS, RDU, or Florida if AA were to add additional p2p from IND.


New route IND-MCO sat only this summer:

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:01 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
indygs wrote:
IND is no AUS but I do wonder if there's a chapter of the post-COVID recovery where we see a bit of a dump of seats in markets such as IND to try and wrestle away market share for the long-term, almost like what NW did back when ATA retreated and they burst on to the scene. Yes, the conditions are vastly different than they were then, but the incremental difference for DL or AA to add some P2P routes in addition to what they have now wouldn't be as significant as the build up of NW back then. And I've got to think there will still be incentive dollars from the state and city that could be tapped.


One route that caught my eye in particular was IND-BOS, while PDEW was only ~44 in Q4 (down from 250 in Q4 2019), AA passengers made up 40% of that traffic compared to DL's 32%.

It wasn't just at BOS that AA gained market share, AA surpassed DL's market share on IND-RDU which was another DL stronghold from IND, and one of the strongest DL routes from RDU. AA was also much larger than DL on IND-LAX, and carried nearly 30 PDEW on IND-RSW in Q4 without even offering a nonstop.

Now, I understand that COVID caused certain market dynamics to temporarily change, however, I think this is a sign of things to come especially on routes like IND-BOS where DL just removed 1 of its frequencies permanently.

My eyes would be on AUS, RDU, or Florida if AA were to add additional p2p from IND.


New route IND-MCO sat only this summer:

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx


When I see routes like this I wonder if people really want to stay in one place for the whole week or if many may come/go for less time? For instance, will the SY MCO service, twice a week, do better than 1X a week?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:55 am

Terrible news:

"IMPD investigating 'mass casualty shooting' at Indianapolis FedEx facility"

https://www.wthr.com/article/news/crime ... 97df5e793c

1-70 completely closed in both directions
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
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stl07
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:13 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Terrible news:

"IMPD investigating 'mass casualty shooting' at Indianapolis FedEx facility"

https://www.wthr.com/article/news/crime ... 97df5e793c

1-70 completely closed in both directions

That's awful. Times are rough these days and we need to take a step back and check up on ourselves and loved ones.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:26 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Terrible news:

"IMPD investigating 'mass casualty shooting' at Indianapolis FedEx facility"

https://www.wthr.com/article/news/crime ... 97df5e793c

1-70 completely closed in both directions


At least 8 dead at the FX facility. The gunman killed himself.
 
CRJ200flyer
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:37 am

I’m confused where exactly this occurred, and how looking at FlightAware things look almost normal. During the shooting FedEx flights still arrived without apparent pause, and the usual early morning departure bank proceeded. I’m surprised given the reported closing of I-70 and one would think a full security sweep to check for other threats that it didn’t cause massive delays???
 
ltbewr
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:48 am

Eight (8) dead at IND FedEx Ground facility. Several others hospitalized. Alleged gunman believed dead. Not sure if gunman an employee. The linked article says this is one of FedEx's biggest facilities, it is likely to have a significant affect on it work. Sadly this is not the first time FedEx has been a target of deadly violence and it raises questions of security at the site. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/at-le ... li=BBnb7Kz
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:08 pm

CRJ200flyer wrote:
I’m confused where exactly this occurred, and how looking at FlightAware things look almost normal. During the shooting FedEx flights still arrived without apparent pause, and the usual early morning departure bank proceeded. I’m surprised given the reported closing of I-70 and one would think a full security sweep to check for other threats that it didn’t cause massive delays???


I was thinking this as well, I think the reporting was a bit confusing since FedEx has multiple warehouses around the airport.

Image
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/16/us/india ... index.html

You would think they would at least temporarily lockdown the air hub, but I guess they thought the air side facility was more secure? Still weird they went along as normal considering the trucks delivering packages didn't have anywhere to go with the interstates closed.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
COSPN
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:05 pm

This did not take place on the Airport controlled property this is a Ground trucking facility very close to the Airport . So the actual IND airport was never closed or locked down

I 70 was closed for a bit to allowed quick travel for police arriving from Downtown Indy and Ambulances taking victims downtown to the many hospitals available there .. it’s about 14 miles and at 80 miles and hour it’s a quick trip.. probably saved a few lives
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:36 pm

Jake1993P wrote:
Noticed a sign posted on the Sky Club door as I was flying out of IND yesterday, said the club will reopen 4/13.


Yep just flew through IND, and it is open

indygs wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Would be very surprised if that happened, they currently only have 34 departures in their summer placeholder schedule.


We can hope, can't we?! ;-)


I'll eat my words, they updated part of June, so now IND is up to 28 departures/day, with lots more mainline:

ATL - 7
MSP - 6 (More frequencies than pre-covid, 2 mainline)
DTW- 6 (3 Mainline)
LGA - 3
JFK - 2 (Surprising)
BOS -2 (Finally returns)
SLC - 1 (Returns)
LAX - 1

UA is up to 19 departures for June
Everything is largely the same although ORD is up to 7/day, plus the new p2p flights


DL IND-SEA suspension rolled forward to Aug 5th, RDU still September 1st
UA IND-SFO suspension rolled forward to July 1st

AA should be updated tonight and WN next week.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
GSOtoIND
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:08 pm

Looks like AA is going to 35 flights a day in June, with more mainline to boot and all routes but JFK flying:
BOS-1 (E75)
CLT-7 (2x A319, 4x E75, 1x CR7)
DCA-3 (E75)
DFW-5 (3x 738, 2x A319, up from all A319 in May)
LAX-1 (738, a jump from the A319 it's historically been)
LGA-2 (1x E75, 1x E70)
MIA-2 (1x E75, 1x 737 Max, a first for AA at IND as far as I know)
ORD-7 (5x E75, 1x CR7, 1x ER4)
PHL-5 (4x E75, 1x CR9)
PHX-2 (A320, up from the A319)
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:26 pm

GSOtoIND wrote:
Looks like AA is going to 35 flights a day in June, with more mainline to boot and all routes but JFK flying:
BOS-1 (E75)
CLT-7 (2x A319, 4x E75, 1x CR7)
DCA-3 (E75)
DFW-5 (3x 738, 2x A319, up from all A319 in May)
LAX-1 (738, a jump from the A319 it's historically been)
LGA-2 (1x E75, 1x E70)
MIA-2 (1x E75, 1x 737 Max, a first for AA at IND as far as I know)
ORD-7 (5x E75, 1x CR7, 1x ER4)
PHL-5 (4x E75, 1x CR9)
PHX-2 (A320, up from the A319)


Good luck to AA & DL on IND-BOS, going to be fun to watch that route.
:stirthepot:
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
fedex1
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:03 pm

AA is being aggressive in IND? I am puzzled why DL hasn’t came back, wasn’t IND decent to them? Why retreat and let another airline take your pax... ? I obviously am NOT in the business just asking questions!
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:27 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

From IND or BOS it certainly was, especially after WN dropped it. They were getting great yields from CVG & IND to BOS, comparatively these routes were way above average, especially given how competitive most of DL's BOS network is.

It was discussed in this thread last year I believe.


It was discussed in complete and total theory.


It was not....... there is a whole article about it from a former network planner:

As you can clearly see it performed way above average, as has been reiterated several times over the past few years.

Image

Image

https://www.flydataguy.com/2020/01/amer ... irect.html

indygs wrote:
Rumor has it SEA will return in the summer and DL will go from the current 15 departures to 30 by mid-summer.


Would be very surprised if that happened, they currently only have 34 departures in their summer placeholder schedule.

Big corporate links from Indy to Boston, especially Lilly.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:28 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
indygs wrote:
IND is no AUS but I do wonder if there's a chapter of the post-COVID recovery where we see a bit of a dump of seats in markets such as IND to try and wrestle away market share for the long-term, almost like what NW did back when ATA retreated and they burst on to the scene. Yes, the conditions are vastly different than they were then, but the incremental difference for DL or AA to add some P2P routes in addition to what they have now wouldn't be as significant as the build up of NW back then. And I've got to think there will still be incentive dollars from the state and city that could be tapped.


One route that caught my eye in particular was IND-BOS, while PDEW was only ~44 in Q4 (down from 250 in Q4 2019), AA passengers made up 40% of that traffic compared to DL's 32%.

It wasn't just at BOS that AA gained market share, AA surpassed DL's market share on IND-RDU which was another DL stronghold from IND, and one of the strongest DL routes from RDU. AA was also much larger than DL on IND-LAX, and carried nearly 30 PDEW on IND-RSW in Q4 without even offering a nonstop.

Now, I understand that COVID caused certain market dynamics to temporarily change, however, I think this is a sign of things to come especially on routes like IND-BOS where DL just removed 1 of its frequencies permanently.

My eyes would be on AUS, RDU, or Florida if AA were to add additional p2p from IND.


New route IND-MCO sat only this summer:

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx

YX 175, I assume?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:25 pm

fedex1 wrote:
AA is being aggressive in IND? I am puzzled why DL hasn’t came back, wasn’t IND decent to them? Why retreat and let another airline take your pax... ? I obviously am NOT in the business just asking questions!


Their June schedule is actually pretty large relative to other markets, 28 departures is more than they are operating from AUS.

Adding 7 frequencies more than May, and bringing back SLC & BOS. Still noticeably smaller than AA, but not falling too far behind.

FlyingElvii wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

One route that caught my eye in particular was IND-BOS, while PDEW was only ~44 in Q4 (down from 250 in Q4 2019), AA passengers made up 40% of that traffic compared to DL's 32%.

It wasn't just at BOS that AA gained market share, AA surpassed DL's market share on IND-RDU which was another DL stronghold from IND, and one of the strongest DL routes from RDU. AA was also much larger than DL on IND-LAX, and carried nearly 30 PDEW on IND-RSW in Q4 without even offering a nonstop.

Now, I understand that COVID caused certain market dynamics to temporarily change, however, I think this is a sign of things to come especially on routes like IND-BOS where DL just removed 1 of its frequencies permanently.

My eyes would be on AUS, RDU, or Florida if AA were to add additional p2p from IND.


New route IND-MCO sat only this summer:

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx

YX 175, I assume?


Yep 12:48PM departure, probably using available Saturday capacity from a DCA/PHL turn.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
fedex1
Posts: 375
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:25 pm

Thank you MidWest!
 
GSOtoIND
Posts: 185
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:35 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
fedex1 wrote:
AA is being aggressive in IND? I am puzzled why DL hasn’t came back, wasn’t IND decent to them? Why retreat and let another airline take your pax... ? I obviously am NOT in the business just asking questions!


Their June schedule is actually pretty large relative to other markets, 28 departures is more than they are operating from AUS.

Adding 7 frequencies more than May, and bringing back SLC & BOS. Still noticeably smaller than AA, but not falling too far behind.

FlyingElvii wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

New route IND-MCO sat only this summer:

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx

YX 175, I assume?


Yep 12:48PM departure, probably using available Saturday capacity from a DCA/PHL turn.

Worth noting that, by seats, AA is only 13% larger by seats than DL for June despite flying 25% more flights. All those 739s to ATL make up the difference. (I'm ignoring Delta's seat blocking policy for the moment because I haven't followed the ins and outs of it)
 
Jshank83
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:38 pm

GSOtoIND wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
fedex1 wrote:
AA is being aggressive in IND? I am puzzled why DL hasn’t came back, wasn’t IND decent to them? Why retreat and let another airline take your pax... ? I obviously am NOT in the business just asking questions!


Their June schedule is actually pretty large relative to other markets, 28 departures is more than they are operating from AUS.

Adding 7 frequencies more than May, and bringing back SLC & BOS. Still noticeably smaller than AA, but not falling too far behind.

FlyingElvii wrote:
YX 175, I assume?


Yep 12:48PM departure, probably using available Saturday capacity from a DCA/PHL turn.

Worth noting that, by seats, AA is only 13% larger by seats than DL for June despite flying 25% more flights. All those 739s to ATL make up the difference. (I'm ignoring Delta's seat blocking policy for the moment because I haven't followed the ins and outs of it)


They stop blocking in May
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:56 pm

For the person who was repeating last year that "Indiana was broke" & "the flight incentive money was now used for other things."

Here you go, the money is still there and being actively used for air service. Should not come as a surprise, as I said last year, by law this is what the money is supposed to be used for:

Image
http://iga.in.gov/legislative/2021/bills/house/1001

Previous version of the 2021-2023 budget actually had an additional $15M going to "Next Level flights"
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
indygs
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:18 pm

Interesting to see DL's addition of PDX-ICN this week. While very different in terms of equipment and market, it is at least encouraging that perhaps not all hope is lost for non-hub/non-focus city INTL routes, selfishly thinking of IND-CDG.

@MidwestIndy, do you know if there are any provisions in the state incentive money that would prohibit DL from accessing such funds for a route that existed pre-COVID? So would they be ineligible for incentives on IND-CDG but let's say eligible for a very hypothetical IND-AMS? I'm not holding my breath either one will happen--soon, even--but just curious if that's a limitation of these incentive dollars.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:59 pm

indygs wrote:
Interesting to see DL's addition of PDX-ICN this week. While very different in terms of equipment and market, it is at least encouraging that perhaps not all hope is lost for non-hub/non-focus city INTL routes, selfishly thinking of IND-CDG.

@MidwestIndy, do you know if there are any provisions in the state incentive money that would prohibit DL from accessing such funds for a route that existed pre-COVID? So would they be ineligible for incentives on IND-CDG but let's say eligible for a very hypothetical IND-AMS? I'm not holding my breath either one will happen--soon, even--but just curious if that's a limitation of these incentive dollars.


I would say it is definitely eligible, the $$$ can be used for anything air service/aviation related, at the discretion of the IEDC. So there don't appear to be any restrictions like that on the incentives, at least not publicly.

When TATL does return though, I wouldn't expect it to be DL.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:03 pm

Expect additional service to Florida, INDRSW posted the best LF across WN's entire network for January, NK's INDRSW was #5 in theirs, and G4's INDPGD was #8 in Allegiant's network :

In terms of Q4 largest markets to Florida:
SRQ: IND was 6th largest market
RSW: IND was 7th (nearly larger than IAD/BWI/DCA combined), & does not include PGD
TPA: IND was 11th & does not include PIE

IND was a top 25-30 route from RDU, and the largest unserved route from IND during Q4 2020 outside of BOS. Keep an eye out for AA if DL pulls back on that route, Lilly announced last year they were building a $500M facility in RDU.

"But Austin is just the start.

As noted in the release, this idea extends to Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus (OH), Indianapolis, Memphis, Nashville, and Raleigh/Durham, among others. The increased service by American combined with the rolling back of service by Delta and United puts these in play. We’ve seen bits and pieces of this over the last couple weeks. There is the new Raleigh/Durham – Nashville flight and the Saturday-only flights into Orlando and the Caribbean from some of these very non-hubs. More is coming."
https://crankyflier.com/2021/04/21/amer ... w-flights/
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
jplatts
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Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:34 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Expect additional service to Florida, INDRSW posted the best LF across WN's entire network for January, NK's INDRSW was #5 in theirs, and G4's INDPGD was #8 in Allegiant's network


I probably would expect WN to increase nonstop service to RSW from IND with the strong demand that was there to the RSW/PGD market from IND in January 2021.

I would also probably expect WN to add IND-MIA nonstop service (even if it is on a less-than-daily or seasonal basis) with IND being one of the top destinations traveled to from the MIA/FLL market on WN that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from MIA.
 
kavok
Posts: 947
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:56 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
indygs wrote:
Interesting to see DL's addition of PDX-ICN this week. While very different in terms of equipment and market, it is at least encouraging that perhaps not all hope is lost for non-hub/non-focus city INTL routes, selfishly thinking of IND-CDG.

@MidwestIndy, do you know if there are any provisions in the state incentive money that would prohibit DL from accessing such funds for a route that existed pre-COVID? So would they be ineligible for incentives on IND-CDG but let's say eligible for a very hypothetical IND-AMS? I'm not holding my breath either one will happen--soon, even--but just curious if that's a limitation of these incentive dollars.


I would say it is definitely eligible, the $$$ can be used for anything air service/aviation related, at the discretion of the IEDC. So there don't appear to be any restrictions like that on the incentives, at least not publicly.

When TATL does return though, I wouldn't expect it to be DL.


Good points.

The one other aspect to remember with DL, is that they just retired all of their 777s. Many of their new A350 deliveries had also been delayed as a result of the pandemic. What that effectively means is DL’s current widebody fleet is much smaller than it was in 2019.

As a result, DL cannot fly many of their former 2019 TATL/TPAC routes even if they wanted to (and could do so profitably). So it becomes an opportunity cost question, and that makes it that much harder for DL to serve IND-CDG.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4526
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Indianapolis Aviation Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:31 pm

kavok wrote:
The one other aspect to remember with DL, is that they just retired all of their 777s. Many of their new A350 deliveries had also been delayed as a result of the pandemic. What that effectively means is DL’s current widebody fleet is much smaller than it was in 2019.

As a result, DL cannot fly many of their former 2019 TATL/TPAC routes even if they wanted to (and could do so profitably). So it becomes an opportunity cost question, and that makes it that much harder for DL to serve IND-CDG.


AF could add IND-CDG nonstop service if there was enough demand to Europe from the IND market with the connections that AF would be able to offer to other European destinations through CDG.
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