Oregon Aviation Thread - 2021

AC4500 · Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:35 pm

SANFan wrote:
Just to make sure all are aware, this sort of trimming of frequencies is happening all over the AS network, and the airline industry as a whole. It is not specific to PDX. If the traffic isn't there (yet) there's no reason to operate multiple daily frequencies, or even. in some cases, one daily flight.

Of course. But when AS offers 5 daily 737s on SEA-SMF and 1 daily E175 on PDX-SMF, at a pretty inconvenient departure time nonetheless, the dramatic difference in capacity is quite odd. There's got to be stronger demand than just one daily flight. Same goes with the previous poster's comment on PDX-BOI.

SANFan wrote:
I think the real test of how things are going will be summer of 2022 when hopefully things are approaching, or at least heading in the direction of, normal. At least that's how I'm looking at things...

Absolutely. As I mentioned earlier, with the significant schedule discrepancies between the Tue/Wed/Sat schedules and Sun/Mon/Thu/Fri schedules, business traffic is still at all-time lows, and that is hindering the major comeback that everyone is so desperately waiting for.

However, there are also plenty of Alaska PDX routes that they've already brought back to near pre-COVID capacity. PDX-SJC will be 5x daily in October, with 4 of the 5 flights on mainline aircraft. Watching how AS has shifted their capacity throughout the pandemic has been quite interesting. As you mentioned, summer 2022 will likely be when we finally start to see a glimpse of near pre-COVID capacity on most if not all of Alaska's routes.

PacificWest · Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:01 am

AC4500 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Just to make sure all are aware, this sort of trimming of frequencies is happening all over the AS network, and the airline industry as a whole. It is not specific to PDX. If the traffic isn't there (yet) there's no reason to operate multiple daily frequencies, or even. in some cases, one daily flight.

Of course. But when AS offers 5 daily 737s on SEA-SMF and 1 daily E175 on PDX-SMF, at a pretty inconvenient departure time nonetheless, the dramatic difference in capacity is quite odd. There's got to be stronger demand than just one daily flight. Same goes with the previous poster's comment on PDX-BOI.

Exactly. 80% of PDX frequency is cut because of 'lack of demand'... but there's 2-3x more flights to Seattle now.

midway7 · Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:25 pm

Is there an easy way to get the full AS schedule for PDX in September and October? I would like to see what is going on as a whole.

Pdxfan · Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:12 am

Any chance Alaska is waiting until the Concourse B expansion to ramp up frequencies?

jplatts · Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:53 pm

Here are the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for WN flights out of PDX in May 2021:
DAL-PDX - 1414 passengers, 1558 seats, 90.76% load factor
DEN-PDX - 31303 passengers, 35048 seats, 89.31% load factor
LAS-PDX - 19701 passengers, 21780 seats, 90.45% load factor
MDW-PDX - 13987 passengers, 15605 seats, 89.63% load factor
OAK-PDX - 23470 passengers, 28767 seats, 81.59% load factor
PDX-PHX - 24882 passengers, 27726 seats, 89.74% load factor
PDX-SJC - 12670 passengers, 15612 seats, 81.16% load factor
PDX-SMF - 17265 passengers, 20051 seats, 86.11% load factor

lhpdx · Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:35 pm

Spotter alert: There's a DL A350-900 on its way from MSP arriving at 12:42 pm followed by an A300-300 at 2:05pm!!!

lhpdx · Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:36 pm

lhpdx wrote:
Spotter alert: There's a DL A350-900 on its way from MSP arriving at 12:42 pm followed by an A330-300 at 2:05pm!!!

AC4500 · Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:29 pm

lhpdx wrote:
Spotter alert: There's a DL A350-900 on its way from MSP arriving at 12:42 pm followed by an A300-300 at 2:05pm!!!

Wow, looks like that was an equipment swap! I'm scheduled on this flight on September 4th with the 767-300.
Wish I could have been on that flight, although it looks like the inbound flight was delayed 12+ hours due to a mechanical issue with the A330-300 (which probably explains the swap to the A350-900),

Airnerd · Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:54 am

Pdxfan wrote:
Any chance Alaska is waiting until the Concourse B expansion to ramp up frequencies?

I sure hope AS starts bringing back PDX flights soon. I will no longer connect in SEA, so I find myself increasingly using other airlines.

spinotter · Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:22 pm

Airnerd wrote:
Pdxfan wrote:
Any chance Alaska is waiting until the Concourse B expansion to ramp up frequencies?

I sure hope AS starts bringing back PDX flights soon. I will no longer connect in SEA, so I find myself increasingly using other airlines.

Out of curiosity, why no more connections in SEA? Is the experience there so bad?

jsta1981 · Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:12 pm

spinotter wrote:
Airnerd wrote:
Pdxfan wrote:
Any chance Alaska is waiting until the Concourse B expansion to ramp up frequencies?

I sure hope AS starts bringing back PDX flights soon. I will no longer connect in SEA, so I find myself increasingly using other airlines.

Out of curiosity, why no more connections in SEA? Is the experience there so bad?

It's REALLY not that bad at all. It's more to do with the fact that some posters on airliners.net are mad that Seatac gets more love from Alaska Airlines than PDX does. There are some dramatic folks here on this forum....lol. Why they're mad at Seattle is beyond me....I mean it makes sense that Seatac would get more love since it is serving an area with double the population, triple the tourism, and quadruple the business. It seems that these angry folks are often the ones that believe PDX deserves international flights to places all over the globe....when in reality it struggles to maintain the international flights it currently has.

PacificWest · Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:35 am

jsta1981 wrote:
spinotter wrote:
Airnerd wrote:

I sure hope AS starts bringing back PDX flights soon. I will no longer connect in SEA, so I find myself increasingly using other airlines.

Out of curiosity, why no more connections in SEA? Is the experience there so bad?

It's REALLY not that bad at all. It's more to do with the fact that some posters on airliners.net are mad that Seatac gets more love from Alaska Airlines than PDX does. There are some dramatic folks here on this forum....lol. Why they're mad at Seattle is beyond me....I mean it makes sense that Seatac would get more love since it is serving an area with double the population, triple the tourism, and quadruple the business. It seems that these angry folks are often the ones that believe PDX deserves international flights to places all over the globe....when in reality it struggles to maintain the international flights it currently has.

Airport vibe/spaciousness aside.... I'm MVP Gold on AS. I really, really hate overflying my home airport (PDX) and connecting in Seattle. It adds another 1.5-2 hours onto every trip. I feel like a pawn in their turf war with Delta... thankfully AS has incredible employees and customer service so I'll play along. Still, there's no good "customer experience" reasons to force so much PacNW connecting traffic through SEA when PDX is there.

AS737MAX · Thu Aug 19, 2021 1:42 am

jsta1981 wrote:
spinotter wrote:
Airnerd wrote:

I sure hope AS starts bringing back PDX flights soon. I will no longer connect in SEA, so I find myself increasingly using other airlines.

Out of curiosity, why no more connections in SEA? Is the experience there so bad?

It's REALLY not that bad at all. It's more to do with the fact that some posters on airliners.net are mad that Seatac gets more love from Alaska Airlines than PDX does. There are some dramatic folks here on this forum....lol. Why they're mad at Seattle is beyond me....I mean it makes sense that Seatac would get more love since it is serving an area with double the population, triple the tourism, and quadruple the business. It seems that these angry folks are often the ones that believe PDX deserves international flights to places all over the globe....when in reality it struggles to maintain the international flights it currently has.

I feel like most understand that Seatac will always see higher levels of traffic and AS service...but what jumps out to me is the often lukewarm commitment to PDX by AS. If the traffic's not there, then the traffic's not there, but Seatac has gotten worse in part because of all the flights AS is having to shuttle across the hub because they would rather do so than gain market share against other competitors flying other destinations,etc. Sure, there have been lots of recent adds, but AS never saw fit to add PDX-TPA/CUN/MSY/FLL even when the traffic and economy were at their best. I recall two years ago flying to Vancouver for the Timbers away game, and had to connect through SEA because SEA-YVR was 6x daily at the time and PDX-YVR was 1x daily, and the times were horrendous. Might things have turned out differently if not for covid? Potentially, but it seems like it's more of the same old same old from AS.

FLYKTPA · Thu Aug 19, 2021 1:51 am

AS737MAX wrote:
jsta1981 wrote:
spinotter wrote:

Out of curiosity, why no more connections in SEA? Is the experience there so bad?

It's REALLY not that bad at all. It's more to do with the fact that some posters on airliners.net are mad that Seatac gets more love from Alaska Airlines than PDX does. There are some dramatic folks here on this forum....lol. Why they're mad at Seattle is beyond me....I mean it makes sense that Seatac would get more love since it is serving an area with double the population, triple the tourism, and quadruple the business. It seems that these angry folks are often the ones that believe PDX deserves international flights to places all over the globe....when in reality it struggles to maintain the international flights it currently has.

I feel like most understand that Seatac will always see higher levels of traffic and AS service...but what jumps out to me is the often lukewarm commitment to PDX by AS. If the traffic's not there, then the traffic's not there, but Seatac has gotten worse in part because of all the flights AS is having to shuttle across the hub because they would rather do so than gain market share against other competitors flying other destinations,etc. Sure, there have been lots of recent adds, but AS never saw fit to add PDX-TPA/CUN/MSY/FLL even when the traffic and economy were at their best. I recall two years ago flying to Vancouver for the Timbers away game, and had to connect through SEA because SEA-YVR was 6x daily at the time and PDX-YVR was 1x daily, and the times were horrendous. Might things have turned out differently if not for covid? Potentially, but it seems like it's more of the same old same old from AS.

I mean that’s one way to look at it. Although AS made it sound like all those adds, MSY, TPA etc were part of longer term plans to grow PDX, sounds like Covid just pushed the routes forward a few years. Pre-pandemic was all about new markets from SEA. PIT, CMH, CVG etc. Those kinda adds slowed down the past year because it’s not the right environment to add them. So leisure growth is pushed forward thus benefiting PDX.

kwbl · Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:54 am

It’s not about being jealous of SEA. Of course SEA will be bigger with more options. But on regional routes such as PDX-BOI or PDX-MFR, it hard to see that PDX can only support one Q400 per day on retain days of the week while SEA has as many as 22,, along with several DL flights. From a business perspective, it hurts the business traveler to have to connect in SEA for short flights….

Airnerd · Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:40 am

spinotter wrote:
Airnerd wrote:
Pdxfan wrote:
Any chance Alaska is waiting until the Concourse B expansion to ramp up frequencies?

I sure hope AS starts bringing back PDX flights soon. I will no longer connect in SEA, so I find myself increasingly using other airlines.

Out of curiosity, why no more connections in SEA? Is the experience there so bad?

Two main reasons for me:
1. Unless I'm headed to AK or maybe Europe or Asia, it's out of direction travel which adds time to the trip.
2. If you're lucky enough to end up with a connection between proximate gates at a not too busy time the connection process at SEA isn't especially bad, but the past few times I've done it has been bad. Very crowded terminals and very long distances between gates involving the train coupled with extensive delays on the tarmac trying to get a gate left me feeling like connections in SEA should be avoided if possible.

AC4500 · Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:40 pm

jsta1981 wrote:
spinotter wrote:
Airnerd wrote:

I sure hope AS starts bringing back PDX flights soon. I will no longer connect in SEA, so I find myself increasingly using other airlines.

Out of curiosity, why no more connections in SEA? Is the experience there so bad?

It's REALLY not that bad at all. It's more to do with the fact that some posters on airliners.net are mad that Seatac gets more love from Alaska Airlines than PDX does. There are some dramatic folks here on this forum....lol. Why they're mad at Seattle is beyond me....I mean it makes sense that Seatac would get more love since it is serving an area with double the population, triple the tourism, and quadruple the business. It seems that these angry folks are often the ones that believe PDX deserves international flights to places all over the globe....when in reality it struggles to maintain the international flights it currently has.

The only one who's 'angry' on here appears to be you. :roll:

When was the last time you connected through SEA? While it's certainly better than other busy airports like DEN, DFW, and ORD, it's still a complete mess up there, period. You can give your own take on the issue without having to call out other people on this forum.

However, I do agree with you in terms of the status of Portland's international flights. The lack of business traffic in Portland has resulted in a much slower return to a normal schedule for these flights. However, with Delta's planned future PDX-ICN ambitions, it's pretty clear that Delta is still very committed to Portland, even though they've since pushed back the route's start date from September to November, and they will probably push it back even further later on. For the moment, they still plan on flying PDX-HND as well. Considering the fact that Delta's transpacific gateway is just 130 miles north of PDX, we're pretty lucky to still have Delta committed to PDX.

On the domestic front, IMHO, Alaska has been more committed to Portland than ever before. Throughout the pandemic, we've actually gained more destinations from AS than we've lost (CUN, DEN, FLL, MSY, SBP, TPA). So far, we've only lost EUG, PAE and OMA.

For me, the issue when it comes to Portland vs. Seattle airline/airport operations, is that because of the AS/DL war in Seattle, as well as the Port of Seattle's 'use it or loose it' gate assignment policy, AS and DL have been adding flights in Seattle that completely surpass the actual demand. As a result, we see routes like SEA-ANC get 20+ daily flights while PDX-ANC gets just 2 daily flights. Portland's regional route network has also taken a major beating during the pandemic, with PDX-BOI/GEG/SMF having just 1 flight on some days of the week, when Seattle gets 10 to 15 daily flights. Of course Seattle has greater demand, no one is questioning that, but when it comes to matching offered capacity to demand, the competitive market environment in Seattle has resulted in both AS and DL adding capacity that nearly doubles what the true demand actually is, which leaves significantly less resources (aircraft, staff, etc.) available for AS to utilize in Portland. This is also true for Alaska's other focus cities like SAN, SFO and LAX as well.

AC4500 · Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:07 pm

For those of you who are interested, I created a spreadsheet comparing Alaska's scheduled route network frequencies from PDX in September 2019/2021 and October 2019/2021.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Once Alaska's November and December schedules are finalized, I'll work on those months as well. If Alaska makes further updates to their Sep/Oct schedules, I'll adjust the spreadsheet to reflect those schedule changes.

Some notes for reading this spreadsheet:

- In the bottom left corner of the spreadsheet, you can switch from the September to October table.
- In the percentage column (Column D), a negative percentage means that less capacity is currently scheduled for 2021 than what was offered in 2019.
- A positive percentage means that more capacity is currently scheduled for 2021 than what was offered in 2019.
- A percentage at 0.0% means that the planned capacity for 2021 is the same as what was offered in 2019.
- A percentage of 100.0% means that the route capacity is doubled from 2019 to 2021 (these are new routes e.g. DEN, SBP or seasonal routes that did not operate in 2019 but are operating in 2021 e.g. KOA, LIH).
- A percentage of -100.0% means that the route is not scheduled to operate at all in 2021, despite being flown in 2019.
- A "N/A" value means that the route is either seasonal or didn't operate in Sep/Oct 2019 and/or Sep/Oct 2021.

In summary, the only destinations that have more planned capacity for September 2021 than in September 2019 are AUS, PHX, and SAN. In October 2021, BUR also joins AUS, PHX and SAN with more planned capacity in 2021 than in 2019. Every other destination is either at pre-COVID capacity or is still significantly less than what Alaska offered in 2019.

Sources:
Alaska's 2021 Schedule: https://www.alaskaair.com/schedule
Alaska's 2019 Schedule: http://wandr.me/bts

RWA380 · Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:05 pm

AC4500 wrote:
For those of you who are interested, I created a spreadsheet comparing Alaska's scheduled route network frequencies from PDX in September 2019/2021 and October 2019/2021.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Once Alaska's November and December schedules are finalized, I'll work on those months as well. If Alaska makes further updates to their Sep/Oct schedules, I'll adjust the spreadsheet to reflect those schedule changes.

Some notes for reading this spreadsheet:

- In the bottom left corner of the spreadsheet, you can switch from the September to October table.
- In the percentage column (Column D), a negative percentage means that less capacity is currently scheduled for 2021 than what was offered in 2019.
- A positive percentage means that more capacity is currently scheduled for 2021 than what was offered in 2019.
- A percentage at 0.0% means that the planned capacity for 2021 is the same as what was offered in 2019.
- A percentage of 100.0% means that the route capacity is doubled from 2019 to 2021 (these are new routes e.g. DEN, SBP or seasonal routes that did not operate in 2019 but are operating in 2021 e.g. KOA, LIH).
- A percentage of -100.0% means that the route is not scheduled to operate at all in 2021, despite being flown in 2019.
- A "N/A" value means that the route is either seasonal or didn't operate in Sep/Oct 2019 and/or Sep/Oct 2021.

In summary, the only destinations that have more planned capacity for September 2021 than in September 2019 are AUS, PHX, and SAN. In October 2021, BUR also joins AUS, PHX and SAN with more planned capacity in 2021 than in 2019. Every other destination is either at pre-COVID capacity or is still significantly less than what Alaska offered in 2019.

Sources:
Alaska's 2021 Schedule: https://www.alaskaair.com/schedule
Alaska's 2019 Schedule: http://wandr.me/bts

Yet AAG is still roughly 50% of the lift out of PDX. Which to me, sounds like the numbers for passengers at PDX are still low comparatively & AAG has just cut in the right places. BTW, thanks for the spreadsheet, I was thinking earlier how I'd love to see AS at PDX & really what's changed. I am afforded some inside perspective by friends I have that work in different parts of the company.

The things I know are true, PDX IS a priority to AAG, they did what every airline did & cut flights. during Covid. The MSY/TPA/FLL adds, were in response to the US population traveling domestically vs leaving the country, where US citizens are not welcomed currently, as well as countries, that had closed borders IE ... Canada.

The SEA hub protection is of course an issue also, SEA has 4 n/s to HNL a day, 3 to KOA & OGG, 2 to LIH daily. It's obvious AS is tying up any space they can to stay king there & it works for them. Use SEA-IAD as an example, DL flies one single A-319, while AS flies 2-3 737-900's a day on the same route, so while DL has lots of dats from SEA, it's by no means as much service, with exception of other DL hub cities.

AC4500 · Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:27 pm

It looks like Alaska has cut PDX-DCA/EWR/JFK for October. I guess the Delta COVID variant is really starting to take its toll on airline passenger bookings...

jbpdx · Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:12 pm

AC4500 wrote:
It looks like Alaska has cut PDX-DCA/EWR/JFK for October. I guess the Delta COVID variant is really starting to take its toll on airline passenger bookings...

They aren’t cutting SEA so obviously not. In fact they’re doubling SEA-JFK in October.

sdguijpo · Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:03 am

Bird strike Sun Country @PDX. 787-800. 156 passengers deplaned. Passengers complained of smelling smoke in cabin. Parked at gate D6. I’ll try and post my pictures later.

Tail N824SY

midway7 · Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:02 pm

Sun Country was still on C6 when I left the airport at 0030 this morning. I believe they may have been boarded and ready to depart.

pnwpdx · Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:06 pm

Does anyone know how Icelandair is doing as far as load factors from PDX-KEF-PDX? I saw the plane parked yesterday morning and was curious how they were doing as the lone Europe flight and with the rise of COVID cases.

JPhoto · Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:39 pm

pnwpdx wrote:
Does anyone know how Icelandair is doing as far as load factors from PDX-KEF-PDX? I saw the plane parked yesterday morning and was curious how they were doing as the lone Europe flight and with the rise of COVID cases.

FWIW, I flew PDX-KEF-PDX last month and it was about 95% full.

AC4500 · Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:51 pm

UA is adding a nonstop EUG-CMH flight for the Oregon CFB game against Ohio State: https://www.google.com/travel/flights/b ... BggDEAAYAA

Its interesting to see UA add the flight out of EUG, whereas AS added PDX-CMH instead. Given the COVID restrictions (particularly the worrying surge of the Delta variant) and merely how far away Columbus is from Eugene/Portland, are the airlines really expecting a lot of Oregon fans to attend this game?

RWA380 · Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:15 am

AC4500 wrote:
UA is adding a nonstop EUG-CMH flight for the Oregon CFB game against Ohio State: https://www.google.com/travel/flights/b ... BggDEAAYAA

Its interesting to see UA add the flight out of EUG, whereas AS added PDX-CMH instead. Given the COVID restrictions (particularly the worrying surge of the Delta variant) and merely how far away Columbus is from Eugene/Portland, are the airlines really expecting a lot of Oregon fans to attend this game?

Quacker Backers are well heeled, fairly monied Oregon Alumni who religiously follow them on road games, there is always a section in any away game. The closest destinations, say under 1.500 miles, people will drive their motorhomes or Trucks & SUV's with flags all blazing in the wind, the civil war games, the fans from Portland descend, the drive down I-5 is ablaze with the flags of both teams for miles & miles & hours of tailgating. The important, or high demand games, get charters & UA has been flying U of O teams & their fans in & out of Eugene, since I went there in the early to mid 80's.

Chugach · Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:01 pm

RWA380 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
UA is adding a nonstop EUG-CMH flight for the Oregon CFB game against Ohio State: https://www.google.com/travel/flights/b ... BggDEAAYAA

Its interesting to see UA add the flight out of EUG, whereas AS added PDX-CMH instead. Given the COVID restrictions (particularly the worrying surge of the Delta variant) and merely how far away Columbus is from Eugene/Portland, are the airlines really expecting a lot of Oregon fans to attend this game?

Quacker Backers are well heeled, fairly monied Oregon Alumni who religiously follow them on road games, there is always a section in any away game. The closest destinations, say under 1.500 miles, people will drive their motorhomes or Trucks & SUV's with flags all blazing in the wind, the civil war games, the fans from Portland descend, the drive down I-5 is ablaze with the flags of both teams for miles & miles & hours of tailgating. The important, or high demand games, get charters & UA has been flying U of O teams & their fans in & out of Eugene, since I went there in the early to mid 80's.

UO (and OSU) have used AS for team charters going back at least several years now.

I don’t think this is the first time that UA has flown one-offs from EUG for big Duck road games. I know there have been some to DFW in the past.

Chugach · Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:01 pm

Speaking of EUG, WN starts OAK/LAS-EUG today.

Wneast · Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:05 pm

Chugach wrote:
Speaking of EUG, WN starts OAK/LAS-EUG today.

I imagine we see them add DEN, PHX eventually I’m guessing

RWA380 · Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:49 pm

Wneast wrote:
Chugach wrote:
Speaking of EUG, WN starts OAK/LAS-EUG today.

I imagine we see them add DEN, PHX eventually I’m guessing

With two carriers on the same route, I do not believe the traffic will warrant PHX. Remember on non hub to hub routes AA & AS code share, so EUG-PHX has G4, AA & AS on it, while AS only code shares they r there.

I am not sure, but isn't DEN seasonal on UA? If that is the case, I see a daily to DEN, WN said they wanted 750 flights a day in/out of Denver. I am really curious if we will see WN flying any more places in OR, only MFR & RDM come to mind. RDM could use a couple OAK flights, to compliment AS & UA to SFO & AS to SJC. RDM could use that DFW flight too, supposedly 600k awaits the one who takes it up.

wnflyguy · Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:07 pm

Wneast wrote:
Chugach wrote:
Speaking of EUG, WN starts OAK/LAS-EUG today.

I imagine we see them add DEN, PHX eventually I’m guessing

First day loads.
LAS inbound 109/ LAS outbound 89
OAK inbound 82/ OAK outbound 71
OAK inbound RON 41.

Enjoy Or Don’t
Flyguy

flyoregon · Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:17 pm

RWA380 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Chugach wrote:
Speaking of EUG, WN starts OAK/LAS-EUG today.

I imagine we see them add DEN, PHX eventually I’m guessing

With two carriers on the same route, I do not believe the traffic will warrant PHX. Remember on non hub to hub routes AA & AS code share, so EUG-PHX has G4, AA & AS on it, while AS only code shares they r there.

I am not sure, but isn't DEN seasonal on UA? If that is the case, I see a daily to DEN, WN said they wanted 750 flights a day in/out of Denver. I am really curious if we will see WN flying any more places in OR, only MFR & RDM come to mind. RDM could use a couple OAK flights, to compliment AS & UA to SFO & AS to SJC. RDM could use that DFW flight too, supposedly 600k awaits the one who takes it up.

I personally think RDM makes more sense for WN than EUG, but time will tell I guess.

AC4500 · Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:23 pm

In last weekend's schedule update, Delta has loaded a daily 767-400 on PDX-JFK from November 7th through December 17th. TBH, I have my doubts that this will stick, but it's been quite a while since that route has seen a widebody on it. It would be nice to see that become the regular operating aircraft for this route.

RWA380 · Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:06 pm

AC4500 wrote:
In last weekend's schedule update, Delta has loaded a daily 767-400 on PDX-JFK from November 7th through December 17th. TBH, I have my doubts that this will stick, but it's been quite a while since that route has seen a widebody on it. It would be nice to see that become the regular operating aircraft for this route.

Wow, nice aircraft after going through the refurb's to become a full 4 cabin aircraft;, these were first going to be the aircraft to LHR for DL from all gateways. I am curious how they will price the DL one suites? I have to go to Virginia over Thanksgiving, I'd fly DL via JFK to ride on their 764's, which I first flew on on the closing day of the Salt Lake Olympics SLC-SFO-HNL in seat 1A & 1B.

RWA380 · Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:11 pm

flyoregon wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I imagine we see them add DEN, PHX eventually I’m guessing

With two carriers on the same route, I do not believe the traffic will warrant PHX. Remember on non hub to hub routes AA & AS code share, so EUG-PHX has G4, AA & AS on it, while AS only code shares they r there.

I am not sure, but isn't DEN seasonal on UA? If that is the case, I see a daily to DEN, WN said they wanted 750 flights a day in/out of Denver. I am really curious if we will see WN flying any more places in OR, only MFR & RDM come to mind. RDM could use a couple OAK flights, to compliment AS & UA to SFO & AS to SJC. RDM could use that DFW flight too, supposedly 600k awaits the one who takes it up.

I personally think RDM makes more sense for WN than EUG, but time will tell I guess.

I agree WN could make 2 x OAK & 1 x LAS work daily as a start out of RDM. If that was working, 1 x DEN & 1 x DAL. LAX is saturated from here, so forget that. RDM has 600k to attract a Dallas route, why not WN? It's imagined to be AA, given their relationship with AAG & it would likely be the better choice, because AS can code share on it.

flyoregon · Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:07 pm

RWA380 wrote:
flyoregon wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

With two carriers on the same route, I do not believe the traffic will warrant PHX. Remember on non hub to hub routes AA & AS code share, so EUG-PHX has G4, AA & AS on it, while AS only code shares they r there.

I am not sure, but isn't DEN seasonal on UA? If that is the case, I see a daily to DEN, WN said they wanted 750 flights a day in/out of Denver. I am really curious if we will see WN flying any more places in OR, only MFR & RDM come to mind. RDM could use a couple OAK flights, to compliment AS & UA to SFO & AS to SJC. RDM could use that DFW flight too, supposedly 600k awaits the one who takes it up.

I personally think RDM makes more sense for WN than EUG, but time will tell I guess.

I agree WN could make 2 x OAK & 1 x LAS work daily as a start out of RDM. If that was working, 1 x DEN & 1 x DAL. LAX is saturated from here, so forget that. RDM has 600k to attract a Dallas route, why not WN? It's imagined to be AA, given their relationship with AAG & it would likely be the better choice, because AS can code share on it.

I agree. With the connections available out of OAK and LAS, I think they would work very well, so would DEN. As for Dallas, I personally prefer flying through DAL over DFW, but I think you're right, it'll likely be AA to DFW on that route on a E175

RWA380 · Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:33 pm

flyoregon wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
flyoregon wrote:

I personally think RDM makes more sense for WN than EUG, but time will tell I guess.

I agree WN could make 2 x OAK & 1 x LAS work daily as a start out of RDM. If that was working, 1 x DEN & 1 x DAL. LAX is saturated from here, so forget that. RDM has 600k to attract a Dallas route, why not WN? It's imagined to be AA, given their relationship with AAG & it would likely be the better choice, because AS can code share on it.

I agree. With the connections available out of OAK and LAS, I think they would work very well, so would DEN. As for Dallas, I personally prefer flying through DAL over DFW, but I think you're right, it'll likely be AA to DFW on that route on a E175

OAK is great for Hawaii, All of California which is the lions share of trips out of here. Bot also OAK gives select East Coast cities like BWI & a fair amount of the mid-west. LAS gives Florida & other points not connected to OAK. If DEN came, that's WN's 750 flights a day to everywhere in their system. I am certain that WN has RDM on their radar, as they likely do MFR as well. It'll happen sooner than later if at all.

RWA380 · Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:42 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Chugach wrote:
Speaking of EUG, WN starts OAK/LAS-EUG today.

I imagine we see them add DEN, PHX eventually I’m guessing

First day loads.
LAS inbound 109/ LAS outbound 89
OAK inbound 82/ OAK outbound 71
OAK inbound RON 41.

Enjoy Or Don’t
Flyguy

Thanks you for sharing, sounds like EUG will be a winner if these are first day stats. This next week from OAK will be college students heading to U of O. The UA flights are usually packed in/out of EUG, for any break or Summer. Back when it was a 73S to SFO & that was it.

I really would like to see WN shoot 3 flights a day to RDM 2xOAK & 1xLAS. I'm sure they've weighed their options here, XP is getting popular with the locals to BUR, which is great for a small airport & a bursting at the seams population.

EscapeFromPDX · Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:10 am

RWA380 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
In last weekend's schedule update, Delta has loaded a daily 767-400 on PDX-JFK from November 7th through December 17th. TBH, I have my doubts that this will stick, but it's been quite a while since that route has seen a widebody on it. It would be nice to see that become the regular operating aircraft for this route.

Wow, nice aircraft after going through the refurb's to become a full 4 cabin aircraft;, these were first going to be the aircraft to LHR for DL from all gateways. I am curious how they will price the DL one suites? I have to go to Virginia over Thanksgiving, I'd fly DL via JFK to ride on their 764's, which I first flew on on the closing day of the Salt Lake Olympics SLC-SFO-HNL in seat 1A & 1B.

I hope it flies, I'm booked on this one, but the seat map is looking pretty wide open. Still it's a long ways out.

Chugach · Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:46 am

RWA380 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I imagine we see them add DEN, PHX eventually I’m guessing

First day loads.
LAS inbound 109/ LAS outbound 89
OAK inbound 82/ OAK outbound 71
OAK inbound RON 41.

Enjoy Or Don’t
Flyguy

Thanks you for sharing, sounds like EUG will be a winner if these are first day stats. This next week from OAK will be college students heading to U of O. The UA flights are usually packed in/out of EUG, for any break or Summer. Back when it was a 73S to SFO & that was it.

I really would like to see WN shoot 3 flights a day to RDM 2xOAK & 1xLAS. I'm sure they've weighed their options here, XP is getting popular with the locals to BUR, which is great for a small airport & a bursting at the seams population.

I got a chuckle out of the WN Twitter account referring to EUG as being in “central Oregon”. That said, I hope it works and agree RDM is likely on their radar.

sprxUSA · Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:02 am

Well central if going North to South lol. Anything wet and green is Western oregon, and anything dry and brown is central or eastern oregon.....lovely Pendleton and Ontario haha.

AC4500 · Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:29 pm

Anyone know what the future status of UA's DEN-OTH flight is? They currently fly it twice weekly on Sundays and Wednesdays on a seasonal basis, which is set to end on October 3rd. As of now, I don't see any plans for them resuming this flight in the placeholder schedule for next summer.

I wonder if QX would ever try SEA-OTH at some point.

AC4500 · Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:39 pm

RWA380 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
In last weekend's schedule update, Delta has loaded a daily 767-400 on PDX-JFK from November 7th through December 17th. TBH, I have my doubts that this will stick, but it's been quite a while since that route has seen a widebody on it. It would be nice to see that become the regular operating aircraft for this route.

Wow, nice aircraft after going through the refurb's to become a full 4 cabin aircraft;, these were first going to be the aircraft to LHR for DL from all gateways. I am curious how they will price the DL one suites? I have to go to Virginia over Thanksgiving, I'd fly DL via JFK to ride on their 764's, which I first flew on on the closing day of the Salt Lake Olympics SLC-SFO-HNL in seat 1A & 1B.

I wonder if DL switching PDX-JFK to a 767-400 has anything to do with AS increasing their flights to twice daily on that route. Customers will have to choose between higher frequency (AS) or a superior F-class product (DL).

RWA380 · Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:27 pm

AC4500 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
In last weekend's schedule update, Delta has loaded a daily 767-400 on PDX-JFK from November 7th through December 17th. TBH, I have my doubts that this will stick, but it's been quite a while since that route has seen a widebody on it. It would be nice to see that become the regular operating aircraft for this route.

Wow, nice aircraft after going through the refurb's to become a full 4 cabin aircraft;, these were first going to be the aircraft to LHR for DL from all gateways. I am curious how they will price the DL one suites? I have to go to Virginia over Thanksgiving, I'd fly DL via JFK to ride on their 764's, which I first flew on on the closing day of the Salt Lake Olympics SLC-SFO-HNL in seat 1A & 1B.

I wonder if DL switching PDX-JFK to a 767-400 has anything to do with AS increasing their flights to twice daily on that route. Customers will have to choose between higher frequency (AS) or a superior F-class product (DL).

Good thinking, it could very well be that DL is funneling Intl passengers via JFK & giving a boost to the domestic leg, which is often a 737-900. But B6 does not even fly MINT here, so DL definately has the advantage for that premium cabin heavy aircraft. I'm going to fly up front on one leg at least, just for the experience.

RWA380 · Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:46 pm

AC4500 wrote:
Anyone know what the future status of UA's DEN-OTH flight is? They currently fly it twice weekly on Sundays and Wednesdays on a seasonal basis, which is set to end on October 3rd. As of now, I don't see any plans for them resuming this flight in the placeholder schedule for next summer.

I wonder if QX would ever try SEA-OTH at some point.

OTH is on their map, like ACV, LMT, PDT & more cities they have left. The Q-400 is a big prop for little markets. UA flies OTH-SFO year round, albeit not daily. OTH first is a fishing community, secondly it's close enough to Bandon Dunes, you know south, in Bandon that spoiled rich people fly yheir small jets in by 10am & leave by 4pm, to have supper with the family, after getting in 18 holes & a few pints.

Coos Bay is not som much touristy, but a real active fishing town, with all the people & stories one could imagine. A friend of mine, her family owns a motel called Capt'n Jacks & it's a bit divet, but a wonderful Polish family runs it & bends over backwards to make things nice.

The fishing industry is losing money, there are less fish & seafood to harvest, as our coast is having massive die offs of certain species now that ocean temperatures are rising. The towns themselves are finding it hard to keep kids interested in a way of life there vs the bigger places with more opportunity.

I would be rather curious to know what percentage of tickets that involve OTH, are they more OTH POS, or elsewhere to OTH?, I think the latter. Other than a few military, government or state workers, I just don't know how 1-2 Q-400's would fare. I say this once in a while, QX those Dornier 328 props, were the best aircraft you've ever flown & I'm pissed you got rid of them.

They'd be a bit long in the tooth by now, but QX could have stayed in PDT, LMT, OTH & retuned service to ACV. But it was a cost cutting measure & i get it, but someone will come in & change that landscape.

flyoregon · Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:48 pm

AC4500 wrote:
Anyone know what the future status of UA's DEN-OTH flight is? They currently fly it twice weekly on Sundays and Wednesdays on a seasonal basis, which is set to end on October 3rd. As of now, I don't see any plans for them resuming this flight in the placeholder schedule for next summer.

I wonder if QX would ever try SEA-OTH at some point.

They've been flying DEN-OTH seasonally for several years with the CRJ now the E170/175, and SFO year-round I believe on CRJs and ERJs. If anyone were to add something, I would think it would be Delta to SLC, but I think that's a long shot and an even longer shot is SEA-OTH with AS. There's been a huge push for a PDX route since PenAir bailed, but no one's pulling the trigger on that. I heard rumor that Contour was possibly interested but obviously that hasn't happened. For what the Coos Bay/S. Oregon Coast is, I think UA has it pretty well covered.

flyoregon · Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:49 pm

RWA380 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

Wow, nice aircraft after going through the refurb's to become a full 4 cabin aircraft;, these were first going to be the aircraft to LHR for DL from all gateways. I am curious how they will price the DL one suites? I have to go to Virginia over Thanksgiving, I'd fly DL via JFK to ride on their 764's, which I first flew on on the closing day of the Salt Lake Olympics SLC-SFO-HNL in seat 1A & 1B.

I wonder if DL switching PDX-JFK to a 767-400 has anything to do with AS increasing their flights to twice daily on that route. Customers will have to choose between higher frequency (AS) or a superior F-class product (DL).

Good thinking, it could very well be that DL is funneling Intl passengers via JFK & giving a boost to the domestic leg, which is often a 737-900. But B6 does not even fly MINT here, so DL definately has the advantage for that premium cabin heavy aircraft. I'm going to fly up front on one leg at least, just for the experience.

Are not all of B6's A321's MINT?

flyoregon · Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:54 pm

RWA380 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
Anyone know what the future status of UA's DEN-OTH flight is? They currently fly it twice weekly on Sundays and Wednesdays on a seasonal basis, which is set to end on October 3rd. As of now, I don't see any plans for them resuming this flight in the placeholder schedule for next summer.

I wonder if QX would ever try SEA-OTH at some point.

OTH is on their map, like ACV, LMT, PDT & more cities they have left. The Q-400 is a big prop for little markets. UA flies OTH-SFO year round, albeit not daily. OTH first is a fishing community, secondly it's close enough to Bandon Dunes, you know south, in Bandon that spoiled rich people fly yheir small jets in by 10am & leave by 4pm, to have supper with the family, after getting in 18 holes & a few pints.

Coos Bay is not som much touristy, but a real active fishing town, with all the people & stories one could imagine. A friend of mine, her family owns a motel called Capt'n Jacks & it's a bit divet, but a wonderful Polish family runs it & bends over backwards to make things nice.

The fishing industry is losing money, there are less fish & seafood to harvest, as our coast is having massive die offs of certain species now that ocean temperatures are rising. The towns themselves are finding it hard to keep kids interested in a way of life there vs the bigger places with more opportunity.

I would be rather curious to know what percentage of tickets that involve OTH, are they more OTH POS, or elsewhere to OTH?, I think the latter. Other than a few military, government or state workers, I just don't know how 1-2 Q-400's would fare. I say this once in a while, QX those Dornier 328 props, were the best aircraft you've ever flown & I'm pissed you got rid of them.

They'd be a bit long in the tooth by now, but QX could have stayed in PDT, LMT, OTH & retuned service to ACV. But it was a cost cutting measure & i get it, but someone will come in & change that landscape.

It seems a PC-12 is the perfect size airplane for something like PDX-LMT/OTH (obvious PDT with Boutique on the route), but I know in years past there was hesitation with single engine airplanes for some businesses to commit to travel contracts with an airline with Boutique.

AC4500 · Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:10 pm

flyoregon wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
I wonder if DL switching PDX-JFK to a 767-400 has anything to do with AS increasing their flights to twice daily on that route. Customers will have to choose between higher frequency (AS) or a superior F-class product (DL).

Good thinking, it could very well be that DL is funneling Intl passengers via JFK & giving a boost to the domestic leg, which is often a 737-900. But B6 does not even fly MINT here, so DL definately has the advantage for that premium cabin heavy aircraft. I'm going to fly up front on one leg at least, just for the experience.

Are not all of B6's A321's MINT?

No, a fair amount of them are not MINT-equipped.

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