flyoregon wrote:

AS737MAX wrote:

Same goes for YVR pre-pandemic. Last time I flew up there, had to connect through SEA both ways because it was 1x PDX and 6x SEA. It’s frustrating. I understand PDX obviously doesn’t have the traffic even in normal times but it sure feels like AS barely schedules the minimum.

Pre-pandemic I feel like Portland had more traffic than was given credit. Portland’s in a weird spot with Alaska caring more about Seattle, but also being the dominant carrier at PDX which prevents other airlines from making a significant push in Portland. It’s a good sized city but not big enough for another airline to take the risk. Sun Country sort of did it, obviously that experiment failed. It does make me wonder though, if another large airline came in and fought against Alaska, what would Alaska’s response be? Would they be as defensive as they were in Seattle when Delta started making their push?

I could see southwest making a push in PDX

flyoregon wrote:

AS737MAX wrote:

Same goes for YVR pre-pandemic. Last time I flew up there, had to connect through SEA both ways because it was 1x PDX and 6x SEA. It’s frustrating. I understand PDX obviously doesn’t have the traffic even in normal times but it sure feels like AS barely schedules the minimum.

Pre-pandemic I feel like Portland had more traffic than was given credit. Portland’s in a weird spot with Alaska caring more about Seattle, but also being the dominant carrier at PDX which prevents other airlines from making a significant push in Portland. It’s a good sized city but not big enough for another airline to take the risk. Sun Country sort of did it, obviously that experiment failed. It does make me wonder though, if another large airline came in and fought against Alaska, what would Alaska’s response be? Would they be as defensive as they were in Seattle when Delta started making their push?

Absolutely, especially on some of the longer thinner East Coast routes, we're really really lucky to have AS. Hell, they even started FLL and CUN. Hard to tell on your last point - especially given the SY attempt and what G4's planning.

flyoregon wrote:

AS737MAX wrote:

Same goes for YVR pre-pandemic. Last time I flew up there, had to connect through SEA both ways because it was 1x PDX and 6x SEA. It’s frustrating. I understand PDX obviously doesn’t have the traffic even in normal times but it sure feels like AS barely schedules the minimum.

Pre-pandemic I feel like Portland had more traffic than was given credit. Portland’s in a weird spot with Alaska caring more about Seattle, but also being the dominant carrier at PDX which prevents other airlines from making a significant push in Portland. It’s a good sized city but not big enough for another airline to take the risk. Sun Country sort of did it, obviously that experiment failed. It does make me wonder though, if another large airline came in and fought against Alaska, what would Alaska’s response be? Would they be as defensive as they were in Seattle when Delta started making their push?

If any airline were to come after Alaska at PDX, it would be WN--but even they have been very reluctant to do so. For example, when AS started flying PDX-ABQ, WN stopped. Same goes for PDX-MCI, PDX-BWI and PDX-DAL.

Unfortunetly, the new concourse for WN doesnt have any net gain in gates from their prior setup in Concourse C, so the only way that WN could expand at PDX to the point of a focus city (e.g. similar to WN's SMF, SJC or SAN operation) would be for them to expand Concourse E two-fold, and that's obviously not going to happen.

With that being said, I think AS would protect PDX if any other airline were to encroach on their turf. When SY added PDX-SJD (which I believe only had a grand total of 4 or 5 round trip flights before COVID came about) AS immedietly started flying PDX-SJD on a daily basis.

What's really odd to me is how small of a ULCC presence there is at PDX. NK, F9 and more recently SY have all tried substantial operations at PDX, and all have failed. Now its Allegiant's turn. I'm curious to see how their operation at PDX plays out and if it'll stick in the long-term.

Speaking of WN, people on the Nashville thread have speculated that WN will be announcing BNA-PDX on April 1st. They were supposed to fly this route last summer but COVID took that away.

AC4500 wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

AS737MAX wrote:

Same goes for YVR pre-pandemic. Last time I flew up there, had to connect through SEA both ways because it was 1x PDX and 6x SEA. It’s frustrating. I understand PDX obviously doesn’t have the traffic even in normal times but it sure feels like AS barely schedules the minimum.

Pre-pandemic I feel like Portland had more traffic than was given credit. Portland’s in a weird spot with Alaska caring more about Seattle, but also being the dominant carrier at PDX which prevents other airlines from making a significant push in Portland. It’s a good sized city but not big enough for another airline to take the risk. Sun Country sort of did it, obviously that experiment failed. It does make me wonder though, if another large airline came in and fought against Alaska, what would Alaska’s response be? Would they be as defensive as they were in Seattle when Delta started making their push?

If any airline were to come after Alaska at PDX, it would be WN--but even they have been very reluctant to do so. For example, when AS started flying PDX-ABQ, WN stopped. Same goes for PDX-MCI, PDX-BWI and PDX-DAL.

Unfortunetly, the new concourse for WN doesnt have any net gain in gates from their prior setup in Concourse C, so the only way that WN could expand at PDX to the point of a focus city (e.g. similar to WN's SMF, SJC or SAN operation) would be for them to expand Concourse E two-fold, and that's obviously not going to happen.

With that being said, I think AS would protect PDX if any other airline were to encroach on their turf. When SY added PDX-SJD (which I believe only had a grand total of 4 or 5 round trip flights before COVID came about) AS immedietly started flying PDX-SJD on a daily basis.

What's really odd to me is how small of a ULCC presence there is at PDX. NK, F9 and more recently SY have all tried substantial operations at PDX, and all have failed. Now its Allegiant's turn. I'm curious to see how their operation at PDX plays out and if it'll stick in the long-term.

I wonder if WN just hasn’t want to put tons of money into a fight against Alaska at least they didn’t but maybe that could change I could see them turning pdx into a focus city since they are weak Elsewhere in the the northwest I mean right now it looks like Alaska is focused on Seattle and even places like BOI which I could see growing further

AC4500 wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

AS737MAX wrote:

Same goes for YVR pre-pandemic. Last time I flew up there, had to connect through SEA both ways because it was 1x PDX and 6x SEA. It’s frustrating. I understand PDX obviously doesn’t have the traffic even in normal times but it sure feels like AS barely schedules the minimum.

Pre-pandemic I feel like Portland had more traffic than was given credit. Portland’s in a weird spot with Alaska caring more about Seattle, but also being the dominant carrier at PDX which prevents other airlines from making a significant push in Portland. It’s a good sized city but not big enough for another airline to take the risk. Sun Country sort of did it, obviously that experiment failed. It does make me wonder though, if another large airline came in and fought against Alaska, what would Alaska’s response be? Would they be as defensive as they were in Seattle when Delta started making their push?

If any airline were to come after Alaska at PDX, it would be WN--but even they have been very reluctant to do so. For example, when AS started flying PDX-ABQ, WN stopped. Same goes for PDX-MCI, PDX-BWI and PDX-DAL.

Unfortunetly, the new concourse for WN doesnt have any net gain in gates from their prior setup in Concourse C, so the only way that WN could expand at PDX to the point of a focus city (e.g. similar to WN's SMF, SJC or SAN operation) would be for them to expand Concourse E two-fold, and that's obviously not going to happen.

With that being said, I think AS would protect PDX if any other airline were to encroach on their turf. When SY added PDX-SJD (which I believe only had a grand total of 4 or 5 round trip flights before COVID came about) AS immedietly started flying PDX-SJD on a daily basis.

What's really odd to me is how small of a ULCC presence there is at PDX. NK, F9 and more recently SY have all tried substantial operations at PDX, and all have failed. Now its Allegiant's turn. I'm curious to see how their operation at PDX plays out and if it'll stick in the long-term.

I don’t think Southwest is the airline that would give it a go, but I do think they are the only airline that would have a decent shot at making it work. I once thought PDX would be a good spot for a west coast hub for JetBlue, but they have weak brand recognition on the west coast just as Alaska has weak recognition on the east coast. A few years ago, I theorized that AA couple try and make PDX a mini hub to the pacific like Delta did years ago, but that won’t happen. Anyway, gate space to make a proper focus city out of PDX is limited with Alaska and American taking B and C. I think Alaska will regroup and continue growth in Portland once this COVID stuff settles. They have a strong base here and it would be stupid to neglect that.

AC4500 wrote:

Speaking of WN, people on the Nashville thread have speculated that WN will be announcing BNA-PDX on April 1st. They were supposed to fly this route last summer but COVID took that away.

How many gates does WN have at PDX ?

Wneast wrote:

AC4500 wrote:

Speaking of WN, people on the Nashville thread have speculated that WN will be announcing BNA-PDX on April 1st. They were supposed to fly this route last summer but COVID took that away.

How many gates does WN have at PDX ?

6 gates, E7 - E12. That's not a lot of room for growth from their pre-COVID network.

AC4500 wrote:

Wneast wrote:

AC4500 wrote:

Speaking of WN, people on the Nashville thread have speculated that WN will be announcing BNA-PDX on April 1st. They were supposed to fly this route last summer but COVID took that away.

How many gates does WN have at PDX ?

6 gates, E7 - E12. That's not a lot of room for growth from their pre-COVID network.

Hopefully we see them add Hawaii flights from PDX, maybe the could add gates I don’t think anyone would give them up right ?

Wneast wrote:

AC4500 wrote:

Wneast wrote:

How many gates does WN have at PDX ?

6 gates, E7 - E12. That's not a lot of room for growth from their pre-COVID network.

Hopefully we see them add Hawaii flights from PDX, maybe the could add gates I don’t think anyone would give them up right ?

There are some common-use gates that they could use in Concourse D (D1 and D2), but that wouldn't be a permanent solution for them if they wanted more long-term gate space at PDX. Until DL begins their widebody flights again, D12, D14 & D15 may be open for grabs as well.

PDX-Hawaii on WN has been speculated a lot on the WN network thread, but I think they already would have announced those routes by now. What I'm really hoping for is for WN to make PDX their gateway to Alaska.

AC4500 wrote:

Wneast wrote:

AC4500 wrote:

6 gates, E7 - E12. That's not a lot of room for growth from their pre-COVID network.

Hopefully we see them add Hawaii flights from PDX, maybe the could add gates I don’t think anyone would give them up right ?

There are some common-use gates that they could use in Concourse D (D1 and D2), but that wouldn't be a permanent solution for them if they wanted more long-term gate space at PDX. Until DL begins their widebody flights again, D12, D14 & D15 may be open for grabs as well.

PDX-Hawaii on WN has been speculated a lot on the WN network thread, but I think they already would have announced those routes by now.

Well they would need a long term solution but they could grow and build gates for a more permanent solution, I think they haven’t announce PDX to Hawaii because they didn’t have the Max 8 so they didn’t even have the aircraft tell now which is almost done with certification I think it could be coming soon I wonder would we see Alaska bump up frequency I could see southwest doing well on those routes, I could for sure see it being a gateway to Alaska for them

Wneast wrote:

AC4500 wrote:

Wneast wrote:

Hopefully we see them add Hawaii flights from PDX, maybe the could add gates I don’t think anyone would give them up right ?

There are some common-use gates that they could use in Concourse D (D1 and D2), but that wouldn't be a permanent solution for them if they wanted more long-term gate space at PDX. Until DL begins their widebody flights again, D12, D14 & D15 may be open for grabs as well.

PDX-Hawaii on WN has been speculated a lot on the WN network thread, but I think they already would have announced those routes by now.

Well they would need a long term solution but they could grow and build gates for a more permanent solution, I think they haven’t announce PDX to Hawaii because they didn’t have the Max 8 so they didn’t even have the aircraft tell now which is almost done with certification I think it could be coming soon I wonder would we see Alaska bump up frequency I could see southwest doing well on those routes, I could for sure see it being a gateway to Alaska for them

The Port isn’t going to extend E anytime soon for Southwest. Southwest could try and optimize their schedules a bit to squeeze a few more flights through them. As for Hawaii, WN could have started them without the MAX if they wanted to. Having PDX as their “hub” to Alaska would be incredible...if that ever happened..

flyoregon wrote:

Wneast wrote:

AC4500 wrote:

There are some common-use gates that they could use in Concourse D (D1 and D2), but that wouldn't be a permanent solution for them if they wanted more long-term gate space at PDX. Until DL begins their widebody flights again, D12, D14 & D15 may be open for grabs as well.

PDX-Hawaii on WN has been speculated a lot on the WN network thread, but I think they already would have announced those routes by now.

Well they would need a long term solution but they could grow and build gates for a more permanent solution, I think they haven’t announce PDX to Hawaii because they didn’t have the Max 8 so they didn’t even have the aircraft tell now which is almost done with certification I think it could be coming soon I wonder would we see Alaska bump up frequency I could see southwest doing well on those routes, I could for sure see it being a gateway to Alaska for them

The Port isn’t going to extend E anytime soon for Southwest. Southwest could try and optimize their schedules a bit to squeeze a few more flights through them. As for Hawaii, WN could have started them without the MAX if they wanted to. Having PDX as their “hub” to Alaska would be incredible...if that ever happened..

But the thing is they don’t have enough 800 either why you think the expansion stalled

I wonder if the writing is on the wall and the AS hub days at PDX are over...They just haven't announced it yet...

Right now United is using E6 because E2 is out of service because of the construction. I see Southwest taking that gate over in the future. There is suppose to be a new E1 after all the construction is completed and I assume United will be using that.

lhpdx wrote:

I wonder if the writing is on the wall and the AS hub days at PDX are over...They just haven't announced it yet...

I wouldn't be that pessimistic. After all, we've gotten CUN, FLL and DEN during the pandemic. AS isn't going to just give up an entire concourse (concourse C) at their second largest hub. As flyoregon mentioned, PDX is in a very odd situation. With just a 3 hour drive to Alaska's largest hub in Seattle, adding more flights at PDX starts to make less sense for them, and Alaska's dominance at PDX prevents other airlines from making substantial moves here.

On the other hand, Alaska could definitely expand a lot more at PDX if they really wanted to. Even before the pandemic, there has consistently been lots of unused gate space in Concourse C. Mid-tier markets have been more affected by the pandemic than larger markets, despite the fact that leisure travel is shifting away from larger cities to areas with more outdoor and recreational activity, along with business traffic being down significantly.

As sadistic as this may sound, at the start of the pandemic I had thought (and kind of hoped, in a weird way) that Seattle would be seriously affected by the pandemic's negative effects on travel to a point that they really couldn't ever fully recover from since the first known U.S. COVID-19 cases originated in the Seattle area. In the long-term, I figured that the Pacific Northwest demand could start to shift over from SEA to PDX when leisure travel demand started to come back. However, both AS and DL have kept a very solid route network during the pandemic, and PDX has suffered even more as a result.

In the very slight chance that AS started to significantly scale back at PDX, another airline would certainly swoop in to take their place. I think it would be WN. DL already has two main west coast hubs. Both AA and B6 have never really shown any desire to grow at PDX. UA is the most conservative of the big 3 airlines by far, so there's no way that they would establish a new west coast hub, The ULCC airlines have come and gone (let's wait and see how G4 does), so that just leaves WN. I think PDX is the most ideal place for WN to establish their gateway to Alaska, and there's a chance that they could add PDX-Hawaii routes in the near-future as well.

However, AS isn't going anywhere anytime soon and we honestly have a lot to be thankful for. In particular, PDX has a much stronger regional route network than most mid-tier markets thanks to Horizon. Maybe we'll just have to wait until travel demand fully returns and when the PDX terminal projects are all completed in order for AS to establish a much stronger route network at PDX.

AC4500 wrote:

lhpdx wrote:

I wonder if the writing is on the wall and the AS hub days at PDX are over...They just haven't announced it yet...

I wouldn't be that pessimistic. After all, we've gotten CUN, FLL and DEN during the pandemic. AS isn't going to just give up an entire concourse (concourse C) at their second largest hub. As flyoregon mentioned, PDX is in a very odd situation. With just a 3 hour drive to Alaska's largest hub in Seattle, adding more flights at PDX starts to make less sense for them, and Alaska's dominance at PDX prevents other airlines from making substantial moves here.

On the other hand, Alaska could definitely expand a lot more at PDX if they really wanted to. Even before the pandemic, there has consistently been lots of unused gate space in Concourse C. Mid-tier markets have been more affected by the pandemic than larger markets, despite the fact that leisure travel is shifting away from larger cities to areas with more outdoor and recreational activity, along with business traffic being down significantly.

As sadistic as this may sound, at the start of the pandemic I had thought (and kind of hoped, in a weird way) that Seattle would be seriously affected by the pandemic's negative effects on travel to a point that they really couldn't ever fully recover from since the first known U.S. COVID-19 cases originated in the Seattle area. In the long-term, I figured that the Pacific Northwest demand could start to shift over from SEA to PDX when leisure travel demand started to come back. However, both AS and DL have kept a very solid route network during the pandemic, and PDX has suffered even more as a result.

In the very slight chance that AS started to significantly scale back at PDX, another airline would certainly swoop in to take their place. I think it would be WN. DL already has two main west coast hubs. Both AA and B6 have never really shown any desire to grow at PDX. UA is the most conservative of the big 3 airlines by far, so there's no way that they would establish a new west coast hub, The ULCC airlines have come and gone (let's wait and see how G4 does), so that just leaves WN. I think PDX is the most ideal place for WN to establish their gateway to Alaska, and there's a chance that they could add PDX-Hawaii routes in the near-future as well.

However, AS isn't going anywhere anytime soon and we honestly have a lot to be thankful for. In particular, PDX has a much stronger regional route network than most mid-tier markets thanks to Horizon. Maybe we'll just have to wait until travel demand fully returns and when the PDX terminal projects are all completed in order for AS to establish a much stronger route network at PDX.

It wouldn’t be for a while but a WN focus city In PDX would we awesome especially since there not as strong in the PNW

Wneast wrote:

AC4500 wrote:

lhpdx wrote:

I wonder if the writing is on the wall and the AS hub days at PDX are over...They just haven't announced it yet...

I wouldn't be that pessimistic. After all, we've gotten CUN, FLL and DEN during the pandemic. AS isn't going to just give up an entire concourse (concourse C) at their second largest hub. As flyoregon mentioned, PDX is in a very odd situation. With just a 3 hour drive to Alaska's largest hub in Seattle, adding more flights at PDX starts to make less sense for them, and Alaska's dominance at PDX prevents other airlines from making substantial moves here.

On the other hand, Alaska could definitely expand a lot more at PDX if they really wanted to. Even before the pandemic, there has consistently been lots of unused gate space in Concourse C. Mid-tier markets have been more affected by the pandemic than larger markets, despite the fact that leisure travel is shifting away from larger cities to areas with more outdoor and recreational activity, along with business traffic being down significantly.

As sadistic as this may sound, at the start of the pandemic I had thought (and kind of hoped, in a weird way) that Seattle would be seriously affected by the pandemic's negative effects on travel to a point that they really couldn't ever fully recover from since the first known U.S. COVID-19 cases originated in the Seattle area. In the long-term, I figured that the Pacific Northwest demand could start to shift over from SEA to PDX when leisure travel demand started to come back. However, both AS and DL have kept a very solid route network during the pandemic, and PDX has suffered even more as a result.

In the very slight chance that AS started to significantly scale back at PDX, another airline would certainly swoop in to take their place. I think it would be WN. DL already has two main west coast hubs. Both AA and B6 have never really shown any desire to grow at PDX. UA is the most conservative of the big 3 airlines by far, so there's no way that they would establish a new west coast hub, The ULCC airlines have come and gone (let's wait and see how G4 does), so that just leaves WN. I think PDX is the most ideal place for WN to establish their gateway to Alaska, and there's a chance that they could add PDX-Hawaii routes in the near-future as well.

However, AS isn't going anywhere anytime soon and we honestly have a lot to be thankful for. In particular, PDX has a much stronger regional route network than most mid-tier markets thanks to Horizon. Maybe we'll just have to wait until travel demand fully returns and when the PDX terminal projects are all completed in order for AS to establish a much stronger route network at PDX.

It wouldn’t be for a while but a WN focus city In PDX would we awesome especially since there not as strong in the PNW

If Southwest was serious about developing the Pacific Northwest, they would have already. Southwest isn't new to the game, and they're a big enough airline where if they went to Port of Portland and said they wanted to do anything significant out of PDX with some assurances, the Port would find a way to make it happen. There's no guarantees in aviation, but a big airline like them have serious influence. Delta did that in Salt Lake City to an extent to get the new terminals built. Granted, they were needed, but Delta was a huge deciding factor in finally pulling the trigger.

Southwest could have made the Pacific Northwest a focus point in 1994 when they took over Morris routes i.e. PDX/SEA-GEG/BOI/SLC, etc. but they didn't. The only routes that PDX could offer to Southwest as a "hub" would be Alaska. Everything else is pretty well covered from Oakland. So, my guess is, Southwest won't be adding anything significant from Portland except maybe routes to places like Nashville, Houston, New Orleans, and Tampa (someone needs to make that one happen already). Even with those mentioned, I really only see BNA being added by Southwest with reasonable success because of the connection options from BNA. Alaska would be the better carrier for MSY and TPA in my opinion.

We'll see. The one-world membership will make things interesting for Portland I think. I don't suspect to see an onslaught of new international routes, but a stronger case for Japan Airlines and British Airways can now be made, but maybe not until next year?

flyoregon wrote:

Wneast wrote:

AC4500 wrote:

I wouldn't be that pessimistic. After all, we've gotten CUN, FLL and DEN during the pandemic. AS isn't going to just give up an entire concourse (concourse C) at their second largest hub. As flyoregon mentioned, PDX is in a very odd situation. With just a 3 hour drive to Alaska's largest hub in Seattle, adding more flights at PDX starts to make less sense for them, and Alaska's dominance at PDX prevents other airlines from making substantial moves here.

On the other hand, Alaska could definitely expand a lot more at PDX if they really wanted to. Even before the pandemic, there has consistently been lots of unused gate space in Concourse C. Mid-tier markets have been more affected by the pandemic than larger markets, despite the fact that leisure travel is shifting away from larger cities to areas with more outdoor and recreational activity, along with business traffic being down significantly.

As sadistic as this may sound, at the start of the pandemic I had thought (and kind of hoped, in a weird way) that Seattle would be seriously affected by the pandemic's negative effects on travel to a point that they really couldn't ever fully recover from since the first known U.S. COVID-19 cases originated in the Seattle area. In the long-term, I figured that the Pacific Northwest demand could start to shift over from SEA to PDX when leisure travel demand started to come back. However, both AS and DL have kept a very solid route network during the pandemic, and PDX has suffered even more as a result.

In the very slight chance that AS started to significantly scale back at PDX, another airline would certainly swoop in to take their place. I think it would be WN. DL already has two main west coast hubs. Both AA and B6 have never really shown any desire to grow at PDX. UA is the most conservative of the big 3 airlines by far, so there's no way that they would establish a new west coast hub, The ULCC airlines have come and gone (let's wait and see how G4 does), so that just leaves WN. I think PDX is the most ideal place for WN to establish their gateway to Alaska, and there's a chance that they could add PDX-Hawaii routes in the near-future as well.

However, AS isn't going anywhere anytime soon and we honestly have a lot to be thankful for. In particular, PDX has a much stronger regional route network than most mid-tier markets thanks to Horizon. Maybe we'll just have to wait until travel demand fully returns and when the PDX terminal projects are all completed in order for AS to establish a much stronger route network at PDX.

It wouldn’t be for a while but a WN focus city In PDX would we awesome especially since there not as strong in the PNW

If Southwest was serious about developing the Pacific Northwest, they would have already. Southwest isn't new to the game, and they're a big enough airline where if they went to Port of Portland and said they wanted to do anything significant out of PDX with some assurances, the Port would find a way to make it happen. There's no guarantees in aviation, but a big airline like them have serious influence. Delta did that in Salt Lake City to an extent to get the new terminals built. Granted, they were needed, but Delta was a huge deciding factor in finally pulling the trigger.

Southwest could have made the Pacific Northwest a focus point in 1994 when they took over Morris routes i.e. PDX/SEA-GEG/BOI/SLC, etc. but they didn't. The only routes that PDX could offer to Southwest as a "hub" would be Alaska. Everything else is pretty well covered from Oakland. So, my guess is, Southwest won't be adding anything significant from Portland except maybe routes to places like Nashville, Houston, New Orleans, and Tampa (someone needs to make that one happen already). Even with those mentioned, I really only see BNA being added by Southwest with reasonable success because of the connection options from BNA. Alaska would be the better carrier for MSY and TPA in my opinion.

We'll see. The one-world membership will make things interesting for Portland I think. I don't suspect to see an onslaught of new international routes, but a stronger case for Japan Airlines and British Airways can now be made, but maybe not until next year?

Interesting point about Morris Air, as I had completely forgotten about that. WN doesn't typically fly longer transcon routes from places outside of their larger stations (BWI, MDW, BNA, etc.), so they certainly wouldn't start PDX-MSY/TPA, etc.

I think the effects of the OW partnership at PDX are still up in the air at this point (no pun intended). I thought that the partnership between AA/AS would have enabled AA to keep PHL-PDX going for the summer, but AA has since taken that route out of their schedule entirely. Maybe AS will add it back when travel demand improves.

I think it's only a matter of time before BA comes back to PDX. JL has already publicly stated that they are interested in NRT-PDX. I can't find the source at the moment, but someone posted a link on another thread that mentioned NRT-PDX as one of the first potential long-haul routes from their low-cost subsidiary, "ZIPAIR".

In other news, B6 just updated their summer schedule (from June to early September), and I'm actually quite surprised by how strong their PDX schedule is. Of course, take it with a grain of salt as they could end up reducing the schedule later on.

JFK - 11x weekly (7x weekly A321, 4x weekly A320)

This flight is usually just 1x daily (or less). So there is a substantial increase here, even from 2019. DL is still not flying JFK-PDX, although they did for a little while in the latter part of 2020, and AS isn't resuming the route yet either although they do plan on flying EWR-PDX at 4x weekly.

BOS - 11x weekly (all A320)

This is usually at 2x daily in the summer, so it's already almost back to pre-COVID levels. AS will resume this route at 5x weekly.

FLL - 2x weekly (A320/A321 mix)

It's good to seem them keeping this around. It's likely to do with AS suspending the route.

All in all, very strong considering the fact that they are currently not flying to PDX at all right now.

AC4500 wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

Wneast wrote:

It wouldn’t be for a while but a WN focus city In PDX would we awesome especially since there not as strong in the PNW

If Southwest was serious about developing the Pacific Northwest, they would have already. Southwest isn't new to the game, and they're a big enough airline where if they went to Port of Portland and said they wanted to do anything significant out of PDX with some assurances, the Port would find a way to make it happen. There's no guarantees in aviation, but a big airline like them have serious influence. Delta did that in Salt Lake City to an extent to get the new terminals built. Granted, they were needed, but Delta was a huge deciding factor in finally pulling the trigger.

Southwest could have made the Pacific Northwest a focus point in 1994 when they took over Morris routes i.e. PDX/SEA-GEG/BOI/SLC, etc. but they didn't. The only routes that PDX could offer to Southwest as a "hub" would be Alaska. Everything else is pretty well covered from Oakland. So, my guess is, Southwest won't be adding anything significant from Portland except maybe routes to places like Nashville, Houston, New Orleans, and Tampa (someone needs to make that one happen already). Even with those mentioned, I really only see BNA being added by Southwest with reasonable success because of the connection options from BNA. Alaska would be the better carrier for MSY and TPA in my opinion.

We'll see. The one-world membership will make things interesting for Portland I think. I don't suspect to see an onslaught of new international routes, but a stronger case for Japan Airlines and British Airways can now be made, but maybe not until next year?

Interesting point about Morris Air, as I had completely forgotten about that. WN doesn't typically fly longer transcon routes from places outside of their larger stations (BWI, MDW, BNA, etc.), so they certainly wouldn't start PDX-MSY/TPA, etc.

I think the effects of the OW partnership at PDX are still up in the air at this point (no pun intended). I thought that the partnership between AA/AS would have enabled AA to keep PHL-PDX going for the summer, but AA has since taken that route out of their schedule entirely. Maybe AS will add it back when travel demand improves.

I think it's only a matter of time before BA comes back to PDX. JL has already publicly stated that they are interested in NRT-PDX. I can't find the source at the moment, but someone posted a link on another thread that mentioned NRT-PDX as one of the first potential long-haul routes from their low-cost subsidiary, "ZIPAIR".

I wouldn't say never on something like PDX-TPA on Southwest. They recently announced 1x weekly SLC-TPA service. Albeit, not a full trans-con route, but pretty out of the norm. However, I still don't see it happening. Alaska makes more sense on that route.

ramprat74 wrote:

Right now United is using E6 because E2 is out of service because of the construction. I see Southwest taking that gate over in the future. There is suppose to be a new E1 after all the construction is completed and I assume United will be using that.

Pre Covid WN was schedule to take over E4 and E5 once all the construction and Airlines finish relocating.
Last year WN was using 6 1/2 gates on the old concourse.

Flyguy

wnflyguy wrote:

ramprat74 wrote:

Right now United is using E6 because E2 is out of service because of the construction. I see Southwest taking that gate over in the future. There is suppose to be a new E1 after all the construction is completed and I assume United will be using that.

Pre Covid WN was schedule to take over E4 and E5 once all the construction and Airlines finish relocating.
Last year WN was using 6 1/2 gates on the old concourse.

Flyguy

So they could be getting two more gates then for a total of eight which would allow them to grow to about 80 flights a day

flyoregon wrote:

Wneast wrote:

AC4500 wrote:

The one-world membership will make things interesting for Portland I think. I don't suspect to see an onslaught of new international routes, but a stronger case for Japan Airlines and British Airways can now be made, but maybe not until next year?

I’d love to be proven wrong, but I suspect the one-world changes will have minimal impact for PDX, at least on an international level. AA seems focused on developing SEA, evidenced not only be the addition of LHR to compliment the existing BA flight, but also a new PEK route and the announced and delayed BLR service. Then there’s the surprising QR recent addition. I have to wonder if this focus reduces the odds of a BA return or JL entering our market.

NW747 wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

Wneast wrote:

I’d love to be proven wrong, but I suspect the one-world changes will have minimal impact for PDX, at least on an international level. AA seems focused on developing SEA, evidenced not only be the addition of LHR to compliment the existing BA flight, but also a new PEK route and the announced and delayed BLR service. Then there’s the surprising QR recent addition. I have to wonder if this focus reduces the odds of a BA return or JL entering our market.

You very well could be right. Everything does seem to trend in favor of SEA for one reason or another. And I’m not one to assume that Portland deserves anything specific. However a link to Tokyo and London don’t seem far fetched, so I think those could/will happen from a OW partner.

AC4500 wrote:

FLL - 2x weekly (A320/A321 mix)

It's good to see them keeping this around. It's likely to do with AS suspending the route.

Looks like Alaska resumes Fort Lauderdale on 18 June.

Haven't been on here for a year. What a depressing situation it's been. I'm ready to fly but I don't think I can make it with the mask on for very long--and with no booze! Give me the vaccine passport ASAP.

jbpdx wrote:

AC4500 wrote:

FLL - 2x weekly (A320/A321 mix)

It's good to see them keeping this around. It's likely to do with AS suspending the route.

Looks like Alaska resumes Fort Lauderdale on 18 June.

Haven't been on here for a year. What a depressing situation it's been. I'm ready to fly but I don't think I can make it with the mask on for very long--and with no booze! Give me the vaccine passport ASAP.

Alaska hasn't published their interim schedule past 18 June, so it's very likely that AS will suspend PDX-FLL even further past that date.

To think that WN needs more space than the brand new concourse to expand even more is laughable.

AC4500 wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

AS737MAX wrote:

Same goes for YVR pre-pandemic. Last time I flew up there, had to connect through SEA both ways because it was 1x PDX and 6x SEA. It’s frustrating. I understand PDX obviously doesn’t have the traffic even in normal times but it sure feels like AS barely schedules the minimum.

Pre-pandemic I feel like Portland had more traffic than was given credit. Portland’s in a weird spot with Alaska caring more about Seattle, but also being the dominant carrier at PDX which prevents other airlines from making a significant push in Portland. It’s a good sized city but not big enough for another airline to take the risk. Sun Country sort of did it, obviously that experiment failed. It does make me wonder though, if another large airline came in and fought against Alaska, what would Alaska’s response be? Would they be as defensive as they were in Seattle when Delta started making their push?

If any airline were to come after Alaska at PDX, it would be WN--but even they have been very reluctant to do so. For example, when AS started flying PDX-ABQ, WN stopped. Same goes for PDX-MCI, PDX-BWI and PDX-DAL.

Unfortunetly, the new concourse for WN doesnt have any net gain in gates from their prior setup in Concourse C, so the only way that WN could expand at PDX to the point of a focus city (e.g. similar to WN's SMF, SJC or SAN operation) would be for them to expand Concourse E two-fold, and that's obviously not going to happen.

With that being said, I think AS would protect PDX if any other airline were to encroach on their turf. When SY added PDX-SJD (which I believe only had a grand total of 4 or 5 round trip flights before COVID came about) AS immedietly started flying PDX-SJD on a daily basis.

What's really odd to me is how small of a ULCC presence there is at PDX. NK, F9 and more recently SY have all tried substantial operations at PDX, and all have failed. Now its Allegiant's turn. I'm curious to see how their operation at PDX plays out and if it'll stick in the long-term.

pdxswa wrote:

To think that WN needs more space than the brand new concourse to expand even more is laughable.

AC4500 wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

Pre-pandemic I feel like Portland had more traffic than was given credit. Portland’s in a weird spot with Alaska caring more about Seattle, but also being the dominant carrier at PDX which prevents other airlines from making a significant push in Portland. It’s a good sized city but not big enough for another airline to take the risk. Sun Country sort of did it, obviously that experiment failed. It does make me wonder though, if another large airline came in and fought against Alaska, what would Alaska’s response be? Would they be as defensive as they were in Seattle when Delta started making their push?

If any airline were to come after Alaska at PDX, it would be WN--but even they have been very reluctant to do so. For example, when AS started flying PDX-ABQ, WN stopped. Same goes for PDX-MCI, PDX-BWI and PDX-DAL.

Unfortunetly, the new concourse for WN doesnt have any net gain in gates from their prior setup in Concourse C, so the only way that WN could expand at PDX to the point of a focus city (e.g. similar to WN's SMF, SJC or SAN operation) would be for them to expand Concourse E two-fold, and that's obviously not going to happen.

With that being said, I think AS would protect PDX if any other airline were to encroach on their turf. When SY added PDX-SJD (which I believe only had a grand total of 4 or 5 round trip flights before COVID came about) AS immedietly started flying PDX-SJD on a daily basis.

What's really odd to me is how small of a ULCC presence there is at PDX. NK, F9 and more recently SY have all tried substantial operations at PDX, and all have failed. Now its Allegiant's turn. I'm curious to see how their operation at PDX plays out and if it'll stick in the long-term.

Well they only have the six gates that they had before just new

pdxswa wrote:

To think that WN needs more space than the brand new concourse to expand even more is laughable.

Did you actually read what I wrote? Since WN expanding PDX into an official focus city is unlikely, then yes, they probably don't need more gate space. However, if they wanted to expand at PDX, only then would they need more gate space.

The Port could easily add a jetway where gate E13 is for more capacity for WN. The future bar location at the end of the concourse could be turned into the waiting room. They could move AC elsewhere in the future.The Port has tons of options.

flyoregon wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

Could we see a link to the coast like in Astoria? It is near Seaside and Cannon Beach. Astoria is booming with homes selling in a day. The river waterfront area is growing. Would be nice to avoid PDX and driving from there. Lots of city people buying places in Astoria who no longer need to live in the city. Wonder if UA to SFO or Alaska to SEA would work.

That would be extremely surprising. Astoria and Clatsop County may be growing and have a good tourist draw, if anything it would be less than daily, summer seasonal. OTH works because of Bandon Dunes golf course and United has the monopoly there. OTH wants a PDX link, but QX was the only one to really make it work, but that was only with the Dash 8-100/Q200.

I am thinking AST may be a good city for Boutique to add to their PDX hub. LOL! It's perfect, short flight time, for quick turnarounds & avoids a less than enjoyable drive. I could not see QX flying into AST ever again, the last time was on their Metroliners & those were too big, surely the Q-400 is far too much aircraft & if QX did for some odd reason, it would be to SEA. But 4B could try it with some incentive $.

I did and it was like I said laughable. 7 gates for WN is more than enough.

AC4500 wrote:

pdxswa wrote:

To think that WN needs more space than the brand new concourse to expand even more is laughable.

Did you actually read what I wrote? Since WN expanding PDX into an official focus city is unlikely, then yes, they probably don't need more gate space. However, if they wanted to expand at PDX, only then would they need more gate space.

pdxswa wrote:

I did and it was like I said laughable. 7 gates for WN is more than enough.

AC4500 wrote:

pdxswa wrote:

To think that WN needs more space than the brand new concourse to expand even more is laughable.

Did you actually read what I wrote? Since WN expanding PDX into an official focus city is unlikely, then yes, they probably don't need more gate space. However, if they wanted to expand at PDX, only then would they need more gate space.

At WN’s current 16-18 flights/day, certainly. WN made it with that many gates when they averaged 44/day pre-COVID. UA averaged about 22-25/day pre-COVID, so never understood their need for more than 3-4 gates. If PDX had more dedicated RON parking (maybe they do, just always see a few by Atlantic Aviation, which looks tight, don’t know if they have other available spots), there really wouldn’t be any gate space issues. Does anyone know if AS will be keeping the outer C gates once the B concourse is completed? Will they turn them back to jetways?

pdxav8r wrote:

pdxswa wrote:

I did and it was like I said laughable. 7 gates for WN is more than enough.

AC4500 wrote:

Did you actually read what I wrote? Since WN expanding PDX into an official focus city is unlikely, then yes, they probably don't need more gate space. However, if they wanted to expand at PDX, only then would they need more gate space.

At WN’s current 16-18 flights/day, certainly. WN made it with that many gates when they averaged 44/day pre-COVID. UA averaged about 22-25/day pre-COVID, so never understood their need for more than 3-4 gates. If PDX had more dedicated RON parking (maybe they do, just always see a few by Atlantic Aviation, which looks tight, don’t know if they have other available spots), there really wouldn’t be any gate space issues. Does anyone know if AS will be keeping the outer C gates once the B concourse is completed? Will they turn them back to jetways?

WN Made 40+ a day work with 4 to 5 gates with an AOG on the 5th. The Port had 2 extra common use gates available if requested, but they usually never did. They run an efficient operation when fully staffed with people.

There are currently 17 RON parking spots available (not including the old ANG ramp that AS uses and UA was supposed to get). AS usually takes 5, DL occasionally takes 1 to 2, UA usually has 1. This includes the SE ramp, North ramp, E13 A and B, and the former A gate area (2 more will be available here once construction is complete). The north ramp RON project is about to begin which is supposed to add 5 or 6 more spots. I don't think parking will be an issue down the road unless we see an explosion in air travel.

AS will move their regional ops back to the old A gate area once construction is done. The west C gates should return to normal sometime in W21. (current schedule of course.)

I suppose if speculation is all you have to go on, this may not seem like enough parking.

Does Cathay Pacific cargo still fly to PDX?

lhpdx wrote:

Does Cathay Pacific cargo still fly to PDX?

LAX-PDX-ANC-HKG Looks like Thursdays and Saturdays. 748

jbpdx wrote:

lhpdx wrote:

Does Cathay Pacific cargo still fly to PDX?

LAX-PDX-ANC-HKG Looks like Thursdays and Saturdays. 748

MON, THURS, SAT. Except for this month. SAT only due to HKG restrictions.

A few days ago I was flying in First class on a QX E175 from LAX to PDX, and I overhead one of the flight attendants mention that AAG has tentative plans to open a QX E175 pilot base at PDX. I'm a little surprised that there wasn't already one established here.

I'm not sure when or if those plans will ever come to fruition, or if it is any significance of new routes and/or increased frequencies on existing routes, but it's a slightly encouraging sign from AS nonetheless. If nothing else, it's at least assuring to know that AS is still making long-term plans for PDX.

Looks like Avelo Airlines is going to start BUR-EUG/MFR/RDM 3-4x weekly. Will be interesting to see how they do!

flyoregon wrote:

Looks like Avelo Airlines is going to start BUR-EUG/MFR/RDM 3-4x weekly. Will be interesting to see how they do!

$19 one-way fares on all three routes! I wish them the best of luck.

flyoregon wrote:

Looks like Avelo Airlines is going to start BUR-EUG/MFR/RDM 3-4x weekly. Will be interesting to see how they do!

Between that and WN starting up at EUG, that's a lot of new mainline service coming over the next few months. I have to wonder what they are all going to do for gates (though at a relatively small airport these are the problems you want to have).

WN hasn't announced any destinations but I'd be surprised if one wasn't in the LA basin.

metaldirtnskin wrote:

flyoregon wrote:

Looks like Avelo Airlines is going to start BUR-EUG/MFR/RDM 3-4x weekly. Will be interesting to see how they do!

Between that and WN starting up at EUG, that's a lot of new mainline service coming over the next few months. I have to wonder what they are all going to do for gates (though at a relatively small airport these are the problems you want to have).

WN hasn't announced any destinations but I'd be surprised if one wasn't in the LA basin.

I'll take that action. I'd say OAK, LAS, DEN at best. All you need.

twincommander wrote:

jbpdx wrote:

lhpdx wrote:

Does Cathay Pacific cargo still fly to PDX?

LAX-PDX-ANC-HKG Looks like Thursdays and Saturdays. 748

MON, THURS, SAT. Except for this month. SAT only due to HKG restrictions.

Now a late night MON flight was added as "on demand".

Not surprisingly, Condor appears to have removed Portland service for summer 2021. Perhaps we could see them back in 2022. Or even Lufthansa?

WN starts EUG August 29:

2x daily flights to OAK
1x daily flight to LAS

I would have expected to see DEN and maybe PHX in the mix somewhere, but perhaps they'll add those destinations later on.

IAD-PDX returning in United’s full June schedule release

Why would Lufthansa come back here ? Right before Lufthansa left the Port was paying them to come here. They were paying them with salaries they cut from port employees. Lets get real here ok ? Deal with facts not idle what ifs !
[quote="ANA787"]Not surprisingly, Condor appears to have removed Portland service for summer 2021. Perhaps we could see them back in 2022. Or even Lufthansa?[/quote

ANA787 wrote:

Not surprisingly, Condor appears to have removed Portland service for summer 2021. Perhaps we could see them back in 2022. Or even Lufthansa?

I just went to the Condor Website and randomly picked a date (June 25) and it shows flight DE2091 Non-Stop PDX-FRA available to book.

skyflyer777 wrote:

ANA787 wrote:

Not surprisingly, Condor appears to have removed Portland service for summer 2021. Perhaps we could see them back in 2022. Or even Lufthansa?

I just went to the Condor Website and randomly picked a date (June 25) and it shows flight DE2091 Non-Stop PDX-FRA available to book.

It's still currently set to start on May 21st at 2x weekly: https://www.google.com/travel/flights/s ... gYIAxAAGAA

Increases to 4x weekly starting on June 28th.

ANA787, where did you see that FRA-PDX flights were removed?