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ahj2000
Posts: 1327
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:06 pm

tphuang wrote:
x1234 wrote:
AA serves the majority of Latin destinations from JFK except for MEX. Any chance of AA adding JFK-MEX? AA has great Mexico POS unlike JetBlue which pulled out. The market is there as AM runs widebodies (789) on the route.


This is not true. AA serves very few Latin destinations from JFK. It would get slaughtered on JFK-MEX.

Even without a JV, UA seems to make their flights to MEX work well. What makes AA different? Especially given that this will be helped by B6’s FF base.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6630
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:08 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
x1234 wrote:
AA serves the majority of Latin destinations from JFK except for MEX. Any chance of AA adding JFK-MEX? AA has great Mexico POS unlike JetBlue which pulled out. The market is there as AM runs widebodies (789) on the route.


This is not true. AA serves very few Latin destinations from JFK. It would get slaughtered on JFK-MEX.

Even without a JV, UA seems to make their flights to MEX work well. What makes AA different? Especially given that this will be helped by B6’s FF base.


You are comparing UA's point of sale at EWR vs AA's point of sale at JFK. The difference is pretty vast.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4656
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:43 pm

x1234 wrote:
AA serves the majority of Latin destinations from JFK except for MEX. Any chance of AA adding JFK-MEX? AA has great Mexico POS unlike JetBlue which pulled out. The market is there as AM runs widebodies (789) on the route.


Most certainly not. AA serves the majority, if not all of its Latin America destinations from MIA, it's main hub and gateway for the region, followed by DFW. From JFK, AA flies to GRU, EZE, sometimes GIG, and CUN. It added SJD in December. That's about it.
 
ABEguy
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:44 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
x1234 wrote:
AA serves the majority of Latin destinations from JFK except for MEX. Any chance of AA adding JFK-MEX? AA has great Mexico POS unlike JetBlue which pulled out. The market is there as AM runs widebodies (789) on the route.


Most certainly not. AA serves the majority, if not all of its Latin America destinations from MIA, it's main hub and gateway for the region, followed by DFW. From JFK, AA flies to GRU, EZE, sometimes GIG, and CUN. It added SJD in December. That's about it.


You’re absolutely correct that JFK is far from a Latam launch point for AA. You are however missing a few destinations. Notably SJO STT PUJ and GEO.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4294
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:38 am

ABEguy wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
x1234 wrote:
AA serves the majority of Latin destinations from JFK except for MEX. Any chance of AA adding JFK-MEX? AA has great Mexico POS unlike JetBlue which pulled out. The market is there as AM runs widebodies (789) on the route.


Most certainly not. AA serves the majority, if not all of its Latin America destinations from MIA, it's main hub and gateway for the region, followed by DFW. From JFK, AA flies to GRU, EZE, sometimes GIG, and CUN. It added SJD in December. That's about it.


You’re absolutely correct that JFK is far from a Latam launch point for AA. You are however missing a few destinations. Notably SJO STT PUJ and GEO.


GEO and STT are not part of Latin America.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4656
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:19 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
ABEguy wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

Most certainly not. AA serves the majority, if not all of its Latin America destinations from MIA, it's main hub and gateway for the region, followed by DFW. From JFK, AA flies to GRU, EZE, sometimes GIG, and CUN. It added SJD in December. That's about it.


You’re absolutely correct that JFK is far from a Latam launch point for AA. You are however missing a few destinations. Notably SJO STT PUJ and GEO.


GEO and STT are not part of Latin America.


Indeed. GEO/Guyana, though in the South American continent and among the least populated in the continent, is broadly considered part of the Caribbean region due to its political, economic ties to the region. STT is not part of Latin America last time I looked at a map. AA is not flying any of these routes out of JFK other than GEO. The others are dormant, just like EZE/GRU/GIG out of JFK.
 
dcajet
Posts: 5035
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:45 pm

Argentina has requested all airlines to reduce frequencies on flights to Brazil (50%) and to Europe, Mexico and the US (30%), effective Feb 1st and initially for 30 days. Consequently, there are changes on AA flights at EZE.

* AA907/8 MIA-EZE remains at 1 daily with 77E
* AA996/7 DFW-EZE goes from daily to 3x w with 789

MIA-EZE is going out fully booked pretty much every day, so it makes sense to chop DFW-EZE where passenger demand is not as strong.

On a related note, JFK-EZE AA953/4 has been loaded, eff March 28th.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7237
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:10 am

usflyer msp wrote:
ABEguy wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

Most certainly not. AA serves the majority, if not all of its Latin America destinations from MIA, it's main hub and gateway for the region, followed by DFW. From JFK, AA flies to GRU, EZE, sometimes GIG, and CUN. It added SJD in December. That's about it.


You’re absolutely correct that JFK is far from a Latam launch point for AA. You are however missing a few destinations. Notably SJO STT PUJ and GEO.


GEO and STT are not part of Latin America.


At the airlines I've worked at/been involved with, Caribbean markets get lumped in with Latin America.

At American, their business unit for it is MCLA - Miami/Caribbean/Latin America. GEO and STT both fall in the MCLA category.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:39 am

AA adds more flights out of PHL: https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... ew-routes/

- PHL to Santiago, Dominican Republic (STI)
- PHL to Traverse City (TVC) will launch this summer, delayed from June 2020
- PHL-SLC returns
- PHL-DAB extended through the summer
- PHL-HHH/EYW/ACK/SDQ see increases this summer

Medford Airport is targeting DFW flights, highly likely to be flown with AA: https://www.kdrv.com/content/news/Medfo ... 84931.html
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 289
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:55 am

They made some changes this weekend,
-DFW-PKX/HKG delayed to 5/6/2021
-SEA-PVG becomes SEA-ICN-PVG when it commences (similar to what's being done w/ DFW).
https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 9971046401
Seems like they can't find a good testing arrangement for HKG. As for PKX, they require people to go through screening at another airport in order to enter Beijing.
 
Pu752
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:29 am

AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:46 am

Both AA flights 984/989 operated by AA coming in and out from both MIA and MVD on the 772 still pretty full, prices as high as $3000 for main cabin with loads factors over 85% on February and most of March, but after March nothing on the booking systems so far.

Is this route cancelled after March?

MVD/Uruguay still a tiny market and AA is the only one serving US-Uruguay non-stop and it seems that MVD still the last one hanging on after many cancellations even before COVID to routes such as POA, CWB, CNF, REC, SSA, COR, ASU, all of them size-wide larger than MVD.

Any info is very much appreciated.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4294
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:49 am

It is a seasonal route. It will return shortly before Christmas.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:51 am

In March 2020 AA converted MIA-MVD to seasonal, operating from December to May but AA has cut it short to March for now.

MIA-MVD is currently set to resume again on December 17, 2021 with a daily 777-200ER.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26645
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:21 am

It's been temporarily downgraded to seasonal, as it was last year. When it resumes in December the plan/hope is back to year-round.
 
wenders825
Posts: 389
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:29 pm

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:23 am

considering AA brought back MIA-MVD a month earlier than expected (it relaunched in November 2020 as opposed to December), it could possibly come back even earlier.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4656
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:31 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
They made some changes this weekend,
-DFW-PKX/HKG delayed to 5/6/2021
-SEA-PVG becomes SEA-ICN-PVG when it commences (similar to what's being done w/ DFW).
https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 9971046401
Seems like they can't find a good testing arrangement for HKG. As for PKX, they require people to go through screening at another airport in order to enter Beijing.


None of these are surprising. Entry requirements into mainland China are extremely complicated and there's not much demand to HKG at all. As for the SEA-PVG flight going through ICN, unless there is a significant amount of cargo committed to this route combined with a significant advance sales for the BLR route, which will share the 787, there is a high probability SEA-PVG gets pushed back (along with BLR).
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4656
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:42 pm

dcajet wrote:
Argentina has requested all airlines to reduce frequencies on flights to Brazil (50%) and to Europe, Mexico and the US (30%), effective Feb 1st and initially for 30 days. Consequently, there are changes on AA flights at EZE.

* AA907/8 MIA-EZE remains at 1 daily with 77E
* AA996/7 DFW-EZE goes from daily to 3x w with 789

MIA-EZE is going out fully booked pretty much every day, so it makes sense to chop DFW-EZE where passenger demand is not as strong.

On a related note, JFK-EZE AA953/4 has been loaded, eff March 28th.


Looks like a number of JFK long hauls (aside from the recently announced TLV and ATH routes) resume from the end of March, as of now, but obviously very much subject to change and in the pandemic world, 2 months away is an eternity where a lot can change quickly. JFK-EZE is a profitable route for AA for a number of reasons. Carries a ton of cargo and always has had strong point of sales for itineraries originating in the US and in Argentina. AA has been the constant in the market, even through economic crises, whereas AR has come and gone, DL was short-lived, and UA has been very much on and off since moving it to EWR from IAD in 2013.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4656
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:44 pm

Operationally, MIA-MVD has improved dramatically since AA put the 772 on it (it was a 767-300ER for its existence before the type was retired) and would often take long delays or cancel.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:58 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Operationally, MIA-MVD has improved dramatically since AA put the 772 on it (it was a 767-300ER for its existence before the type was retired) and would often take long delays or cancel.

As someone who’s experienced this firsthand, good riddance to the 763. It will be a lot more comfortable and reliable on the 772.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4656
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:16 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Operationally, MIA-MVD has improved dramatically since AA put the 772 on it (it was a 767-300ER for its existence before the type was retired) and would often take long delays or cancel.

As someone who’s experienced this firsthand, good riddance to the 763. It will be a lot more comfortable and reliable on the 772.


Indeed. Well, AA's 767-300ER's have been gone since April 2020 when the remaining ones were retired. American did little to invest in the planes, except for a "done on the cheap" overhaul of the business class cabin, starting in the mid-2000s with those awful, angled seats and 777-style cabin architecture that it did not extend to the main cabin and then installed throne seats in the final cabin product on in business class. The AA 767 had a terrible dispatch reliability rate. The 767 itself is a great airplane but it was one of if not the worst plane in the AA fleet for the last decade or more.
 
jmmadrid
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:00 pm

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:17 pm

More business for COPA, they have a nicer product than AA and the prices are quite reasonable.... there are dates for USD 455 return in February.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15268
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:34 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
More business for COPA, they have a nicer product than AA and the prices are quite reasonable.... there are dates for USD 455 return in February.


The 1 AM arrival and 2 AM departure are not for everyone, though.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9882
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:49 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
More business for COPA, they have a nicer product than AA and the prices are quite reasonable.... there are dates for USD 455 return in February.


I'm generally happy for price competition, but 737 vs. 777, a connection vs. non-stop, adding three hours to travel time, and those arrival and departure times would demand a big, big discount to capture my interest.
 
WrldTravlr65
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 13, 2019 12:14 am

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:14 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
More business for COPA, they have a nicer product than AA and the prices are quite reasonable.... there are dates for USD 455 return in February.


I'm generally happy for price competition, but 737 vs. 777, a connection vs. non-stop, adding three hours to travel time, and those arrival and departure times would demand a big, big discount to capture my interest.


Can't speak for the MIA to MVD product on AA, but I know my ex, who was from Sao Paulo, much preferred the AA product from LAX-GRU, non-stop, over the Copa option with layover, as well. I've never flown COPA, but he said it was just okay. And he didn't like the layover either. Never had any complaints about AA.
 
jmmadrid
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:00 pm

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:45 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:

I'm generally happy for price competition, but 737 vs. 777, a connection vs. non-stop, adding three hours to travel time, and those arrival and departure times would demand a big, big discount to capture my interest.


Interestingly, COPA have built their massive business based on those pillars: 737s (although usually the latest ones), all flights connect at PTY, and arrival and departure times tend to be too late or way too early .

Replace 737 by Airbus 380 and PTY with DXB and you have another huge business model based on connections.

Anyway, it's a moot discussion because after AA leave MVD, people heading to MVD will have very few options.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15268
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:20 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

I'm generally happy for price competition, but 737 vs. 777, a connection vs. non-stop, adding three hours to travel time, and those arrival and departure times would demand a big, big discount to capture my interest.


Interestingly, COPA have built their massive business based on those pillars: 737s (although usually the latest ones), all flights connect at PTY, and arrival and departure times tend to be too late or way too early .

Replace 737 by Airbus 380 and PTY with DXB and you have another huge business model based on connections.

Anyway, it's a moot discussion because after AA leave MVD, people heading to MVD will have very few options.


For anyone who has a nonstop to EZE or GRU - and those folks comprise the vast, vast majority of US-MVD demand - CM will have difficulty competing time-wise. And CM isn't necessarily time-competitive on other itineraries either. For instance, SFO-PTY-MVD is about a 24-hour itinerary, broadly the same as SFO-MIA-GRU/EZE-MVD.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4656
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:22 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
More business for COPA, they have a nicer product than AA and the prices are quite reasonable.... there are dates for USD 455 return in February.


With a stopover in PTY and two relatively long stage lengths on a 737? No gracias.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7237
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:28 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
More business for COPA, they have a nicer product than AA and the prices are quite reasonable.... there are dates for USD 455 return in February.


With a stopover in PTY and two relatively long stage lengths on a 737? No gracias.


And if you're flying in the premium cabin? Copa is a complete joke there. Even as bad as AA's 767s were in business, they were still miles ahead of two long sectors on 737s with no lie-flat seating.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4294
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:31 pm

deltairlines wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
More business for COPA, they have a nicer product than AA and the prices are quite reasonable.... there are dates for USD 455 return in February.


With a stopover in PTY and two relatively long stage lengths on a 737? No gracias.


And if you're flying in the premium cabin? Copa is a complete joke there. Even as bad as AA's 767s were in business, they were still miles ahead of two long sectors on 737s with no lie-flat seating.


I agree. COPA does have lie flats on its 7M8 fleet otherwise COPA business is really premium economy.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 289
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:34 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
They made some changes this weekend,
-DFW-PKX/HKG delayed to 5/6/2021
-SEA-PVG becomes SEA-ICN-PVG when it commences (similar to what's being done w/ DFW).
https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 9971046401
Seems like they can't find a good testing arrangement for HKG. As for PKX, they require people to go through screening at another airport in order to enter Beijing.


None of these are surprising. Entry requirements into mainland China are extremely complicated and there's not much demand to HKG at all. As for the SEA-PVG flight going through ICN, unless there is a significant amount of cargo committed to this route combined with a significant advance sales for the BLR route, which will share the 787, there is a high probability SEA-PVG gets pushed back (along with BLR).


BLR starts in October. As for Hong Kong, maybe this is a question for another forum, but why is Cathay still doing pax flights, while AA is doing cargo only?
 
Airlines0613
Posts: 213
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:06 am

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:36 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
deltairlines wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

With a stopover in PTY and two relatively long stage lengths on a 737? No gracias.


And if you're flying in the premium cabin? Copa is a complete joke there. Even as bad as AA's 767s were in business, they were still miles ahead of two long sectors on 737s with no lie-flat seating.


I agree. COPA does have lie flats on its 7M8 fleet otherwise COPA business is really premium economy.

It’s actually 7M9s and then things only fly to SFO... Although, I’ve heard it’s decent.
 
Antarius
Posts: 3436
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:02 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Operationally, MIA-MVD has improved dramatically since AA put the 772 on it (it was a 767-300ER for its existence before the type was retired) and would often take long delays or cancel.

As someone who’s experienced this firsthand, good riddance to the 763. It will be a lot more comfortable and reliable on the 772.


Indeed. Well, AA's 767-300ER's have been gone since April 2020 when the remaining ones were retired. American did little to invest in the planes, except for a "done on the cheap" overhaul of the business class cabin, starting in the mid-2000s with those awful, angled seats and 777-style cabin architecture that it did not extend to the main cabin and then installed throne seats in the final cabin product on in business class. The AA 767 had a terrible dispatch reliability rate. The 767 itself is a great airplane but it was one of if not the worst plane in the AA fleet for the last decade or more.


They did put lay flats in the 763 later. They were the thompson vantage ones with the alternating 1-2-1 config.

However, there still was no IFE and the dispatch reliability was ghastly. The 767 was a great plane as evidenced by so many worldwide operators, but AA somehow managed to make them run like a pre bankrupcy GMC.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15268
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:01 pm

Antarius wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
As someone who’s experienced this firsthand, good riddance to the 763. It will be a lot more comfortable and reliable on the 772.


Indeed. Well, AA's 767-300ER's have been gone since April 2020 when the remaining ones were retired. American did little to invest in the planes, except for a "done on the cheap" overhaul of the business class cabin, starting in the mid-2000s with those awful, angled seats and 777-style cabin architecture that it did not extend to the main cabin and then installed throne seats in the final cabin product on in business class. The AA 767 had a terrible dispatch reliability rate. The 767 itself is a great airplane but it was one of if not the worst plane in the AA fleet for the last decade or more.


They did put lay flats in the 763 later. They were the thompson vantage ones with the alternating 1-2-1 config.

However, there still was no IFE and the dispatch reliability was ghastly. The 767 was a great plane as evidenced by so many worldwide operators, but AA somehow managed to make them run like a pre bankrupcy GMC.


At risk of beating a dead horse, DL's 763s are lovely inside (in both J and Y) and their dispatch reliability isn't appreciably different from DL's other older widebodies. This is/was exclusively an AA issue.
 
dcajet
Posts: 5035
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:08 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Argentina has requested all airlines to reduce frequencies on flights to Brazil (50%) and to Europe, Mexico and the US (30%), effective Feb 1st and initially for 30 days. Consequently, there are changes on AA flights at EZE.

* AA907/8 MIA-EZE remains at 1 daily with 77E
* AA996/7 DFW-EZE goes from daily to 3x w with 789

MIA-EZE is going out fully booked pretty much every day, so it makes sense to chop DFW-EZE where passenger demand is not as strong.

On a related note, JFK-EZE AA953/4 has been loaded, eff March 28th.


Looks like a number of JFK long hauls (aside from the recently announced TLV and ATH routes) resume from the end of March, as of now, but obviously very much subject to change and in the pandemic world, 2 months away is an eternity where a lot can change quickly. JFK-EZE is a profitable route for AA for a number of reasons. Carries a ton of cargo and always has had strong point of sales for itineraries originating in the US and in Argentina. AA has been the constant in the market, even through economic crises, whereas AR has come and gone, DL was short-lived, and UA has been very much on and off since moving it to EWR from IAD in 2013.


AA pretty much owns the Argentina - US market (and the lucrative business traveler); they have a strong local connection (which includes locally based cabin crew), AAdvantage partnerships with local banks, strong cargo demand on both ends of all routes and a reputation for consistency and reliability, particularly when compared to AR. Incidentally, AR has postponed its return to JFK until June.
 
wenders825
Posts: 389
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:29 pm

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:18 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
More business for COPA, they have a nicer product than AA and the prices are quite reasonable.... there are dates for USD 455 return in February.

this is some of the most gloriously misguided AA hate I've seen on here
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4656
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:23 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Antarius wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

Indeed. Well, AA's 767-300ER's have been gone since April 2020 when the remaining ones were retired. American did little to invest in the planes, except for a "done on the cheap" overhaul of the business class cabin, starting in the mid-2000s with those awful, angled seats and 777-style cabin architecture that it did not extend to the main cabin and then installed throne seats in the final cabin product on in business class. The AA 767 had a terrible dispatch reliability rate. The 767 itself is a great airplane but it was one of if not the worst plane in the AA fleet for the last decade or more.


They did put lay flats in the 763 later. They were the thompson vantage ones with the alternating 1-2-1 config.

However, there still was no IFE and the dispatch reliability was ghastly. The 767 was a great plane as evidenced by so many worldwide operators, but AA somehow managed to make them run like a pre bankrupcy GMC.


At risk of beating a dead horse, DL's 763s are lovely inside (in both J and Y) and their dispatch reliability isn't appreciably different from DL's other older widebodies. This is/was exclusively an AA issue.


Very true, to a point. Delta spent a great deal of money (and rightly so) in the late 2000s to overhaul all of its 767-300ER's nose to tail, and they have stood up very well. United essentially did the same with its smaller 767-300ER fleet. The Delta One seats though on the 767-300ER have not aged well and are a more than a little cramped and tight. United's fully Polaris'd 767-300ERs are really nice. American very much under-invested in its 767s for two decades. The plane was really the workhorse of the fleet from the early 1990s onward and was the only other long haul plane alongside the DC10-30s and MD11's and then later alongside the 777-200s. They flew everywhere in the system and had racked up high cycles. The economy cabins changed little since they were delivered other than seat coverings and cabin wall design. The only exception were 9 purchased after the TWA acquisition to replace the leased TWA 763s which, due to TW's poor credit rating, were leased at a premium and were also a hodge-podge of different aircraft. The 9 new 767s AA bought all had the 777 style cabin interior nose to tail (Boeing Signature for that time, as they were built and delivered in 2002-2003). I think one of those newer 763s was lost at ORD due to the fire that broke out as the plane was taxiing or taking off and that frame was written off. The pre-renovation AA 772's were also dingy inside, with bad lighting, dated cabins, and a very spartan feel but here, AA spent a lot for good reason and upgraded them nicely.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4656
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:25 pm

dcajet wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Argentina has requested all airlines to reduce frequencies on flights to Brazil (50%) and to Europe, Mexico and the US (30%), effective Feb 1st and initially for 30 days. Consequently, there are changes on AA flights at EZE.

* AA907/8 MIA-EZE remains at 1 daily with 77E
* AA996/7 DFW-EZE goes from daily to 3x w with 789

MIA-EZE is going out fully booked pretty much every day, so it makes sense to chop DFW-EZE where passenger demand is not as strong.

On a related note, JFK-EZE AA953/4 has been loaded, eff March 28th.


Looks like a number of JFK long hauls (aside from the recently announced TLV and ATH routes) resume from the end of March, as of now, but obviously very much subject to change and in the pandemic world, 2 months away is an eternity where a lot can change quickly. JFK-EZE is a profitable route for AA for a number of reasons. Carries a ton of cargo and always has had strong point of sales for itineraries originating in the US and in Argentina. AA has been the constant in the market, even through economic crises, whereas AR has come and gone, DL was short-lived, and UA has been very much on and off since moving it to EWR from IAD in 2013.


AA pretty much owns the Argentina - US market (and the lucrative business traveler); they have a strong local connection (which includes locally based cabin crew), AAdvantage partnerships with local banks, strong cargo demand on both ends of all routes and a reputation for consistency and reliability, particularly when compared to AR. Incidentally, AR has postponed its return to JFK until June.


Very true. AA has a crew base at EZE and performs some light maintenance and deep cleaning on the 77W and 772s there. At peak, there are 3 x daily to MIA, and one daily to DFW and JFK and 3-4 weekly to LAX. Have flown JFK-EZE-JFK many, many times and it always goes out full for the most part and carries a ton of cargo. Flew it in 2018 after the holidays in early January of that year and for 2 weeks JFK-EZE had been upgraded to the 77W.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26645
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:03 am

jmmadrid wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

I'm generally happy for price competition, but 737 vs. 777, a connection vs. non-stop, adding three hours to travel time, and those arrival and departure times would demand a big, big discount to capture my interest.


Interestingly, COPA have built their massive business based on those pillars: 737s (although usually the latest ones), all flights connect at PTY, and arrival and departure times tend to be too late or way too early .

Replace 737 by Airbus 380 and PTY with DXB and you have another huge business model based on connections.

Anyway, it's a moot discussion because after AA leave MVD, people heading to MVD will have very few options.


As discussed up thread, AA is not leaving Montevideo. Customers will continue to have the option of flying American Airlines non-stop to Miami.
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2897
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:25 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Operationally, MIA-MVD has improved dramatically since AA put the 772 on it (it was a 767-300ER for its existence before the type was retired) and would often take long delays or cancel.

As someone who’s experienced this firsthand, good riddance to the 763. It will be a lot more comfortable and reliable on the 772.


Indeed. Well, AA's 767-300ER's have been gone since April 2020 when the remaining ones were retired. American did little to invest in the planes, except for a "done on the cheap" overhaul of the business class cabin, starting in the mid-2000s with those awful, angled seats and 777-style cabin architecture that it did not extend to the main cabin and then installed throne seats in the final cabin product on in business class. The AA 767 had a terrible dispatch reliability rate. The 767 itself is a great airplane but it was one of if not the worst plane in the AA fleet for the last decade or more.

I always loved getting onto a plane in Europe and realizing I would be on a long flight with no personal IFE on AAs 767s.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6619
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:45 am

stl07 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
As someone who’s experienced this firsthand, good riddance to the 763. It will be a lot more comfortable and reliable on the 772.


Indeed. Well, AA's 767-300ER's have been gone since April 2020 when the remaining ones were retired. American did little to invest in the planes, except for a "done on the cheap" overhaul of the business class cabin, starting in the mid-2000s with those awful, angled seats and 777-style cabin architecture that it did not extend to the main cabin and then installed throne seats in the final cabin product on in business class. The AA 767 had a terrible dispatch reliability rate. The 767 itself is a great airplane but it was one of if not the worst plane in the AA fleet for the last decade or more.

I always loved getting onto a plane in Europe and realizing I would be on a long flight with no personal IFE on AAs 767s.


I’m sorry you had to suffer so much. I have also flown AA’s 767s over long haul without issues. There is this really cool form of IFE. Never breaks down and it’s easy to carry on. It’s made of paper and has words on it. Great way to pass the time on a long flight.
 
maverick4002
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:54 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Argentina has requested all airlines to reduce frequencies on flights to Brazil (50%) and to Europe, Mexico and the US (30%), effective Feb 1st and initially for 30 days. Consequently, there are changes on AA flights at EZE.

* AA907/8 MIA-EZE remains at 1 daily with 77E
* AA996/7 DFW-EZE goes from daily to 3x w with 789

MIA-EZE is going out fully booked pretty much every day, so it makes sense to chop DFW-EZE where passenger demand is not as strong.

On a related note, JFK-EZE AA953/4 has been loaded, eff March 28th.


Looks like a number of JFK long hauls (aside from the recently announced TLV and ATH routes) resume from the end of March, as of now, but obviously very much subject to change and in the pandemic world, 2 months away is an eternity where a lot can change quickly. JFK-EZE is a profitable route for AA for a number of reasons. Carries a ton of cargo and always has had strong point of sales for itineraries originating in the US and in Argentina. AA has been the constant in the market, even through economic crises, whereas AR has come and gone, DL was short-lived, and UA has been very much on and off since moving it to EWR from IAD in 2013.


UA also cancelled EZE from EWR around November 2019. I had a flight Thanksgiving 2019 and they rerouted me via Houston
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:56 am

dcajet wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Argentina has requested all airlines to reduce frequencies on flights to Brazil (50%) and to Europe, Mexico and the US (30%), effective Feb 1st and initially for 30 days. Consequently, there are changes on AA flights at EZE.

* AA907/8 MIA-EZE remains at 1 daily with 77E
* AA996/7 DFW-EZE goes from daily to 3x w with 789

MIA-EZE is going out fully booked pretty much every day, so it makes sense to chop DFW-EZE where passenger demand is not as strong.

On a related note, JFK-EZE AA953/4 has been loaded, eff March 28th.


Looks like a number of JFK long hauls (aside from the recently announced TLV and ATH routes) resume from the end of March, as of now, but obviously very much subject to change and in the pandemic world, 2 months away is an eternity where a lot can change quickly. JFK-EZE is a profitable route for AA for a number of reasons. Carries a ton of cargo and always has had strong point of sales for itineraries originating in the US and in Argentina. AA has been the constant in the market, even through economic crises, whereas AR has come and gone, DL was short-lived, and UA has been very much on and off since moving it to EWR from IAD in 2013.


AA pretty much owns the Argentina - US market (and the lucrative business traveler); they have a strong local connection (which includes locally based cabin crew), AAdvantage partnerships with local banks, strong cargo demand on both ends of all routes and a reputation for consistency and reliability, particularly when compared to AR. Incidentally, AR has postponed its return to JFK until June.

That AA does. The Admirals Club at EZE was overflowing on a daily basis with the flights to MIA, JFK, DFW and LAX.
 
dcajet
Posts: 5035
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:53 am

Brickell305 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

Looks like a number of JFK long hauls (aside from the recently announced TLV and ATH routes) resume from the end of March, as of now, but obviously very much subject to change and in the pandemic world, 2 months away is an eternity where a lot can change quickly. JFK-EZE is a profitable route for AA for a number of reasons. Carries a ton of cargo and always has had strong point of sales for itineraries originating in the US and in Argentina. AA has been the constant in the market, even through economic crises, whereas AR has come and gone, DL was short-lived, and UA has been very much on and off since moving it to EWR from IAD in 2013.


AA pretty much owns the Argentina - US market (and the lucrative business traveler); they have a strong local connection (which includes locally based cabin crew), AAdvantage partnerships with local banks, strong cargo demand on both ends of all routes and a reputation for consistency and reliability, particularly when compared to AR. Incidentally, AR has postponed its return to JFK until June.

That AA does. The Admirals Club at EZE was overflowing on a daily basis with the flights to MIA, JFK, DFW and LAX.


The Admirals Club has been closed since the beginning of the pandemic, as it's been the case for the Skyteam lounge (operated by AR). I think the only lounge open is the Star Alliance one.
 
dcajet
Posts: 5035
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:14 am

MAH4546 wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

I'm generally happy for price competition, but 737 vs. 777, a connection vs. non-stop, adding three hours to travel time, and those arrival and departure times would demand a big, big discount to capture my interest.


Interestingly, COPA have built their massive business based on those pillars: 737s (although usually the latest ones), all flights connect at PTY, and arrival and departure times tend to be too late or way too early .

Replace 737 by Airbus 380 and PTY with DXB and you have another huge business model based on connections.

Anyway, it's a moot discussion because after AA leave MVD, people heading to MVD will have very few options.


As discussed up thread, AA is not leaving Montevideo. Customers will continue to have the option of flying American Airlines non-stop to Miami.


The way things stand today it will be only as long as their trip is from December to March. Otherwise, a connection at either EZE, GRU, SCL or PTY will be called for.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26645
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:39 am

dcajet wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:

Interestingly, COPA have built their massive business based on those pillars: 737s (although usually the latest ones), all flights connect at PTY, and arrival and departure times tend to be too late or way too early .

Replace 737 by Airbus 380 and PTY with DXB and you have another huge business model based on connections.

Anyway, it's a moot discussion because after AA leave MVD, people heading to MVD will have very few options.


As discussed up thread, AA is not leaving Montevideo. Customers will continue to have the option of flying American Airlines non-stop to Miami.


The way things stand today it will be only as long as their trip is from December to March. Otherwise, a connection at either EZE, GRU, SCL or PTY will be called for.


It is not going seasonal on a permanent basis.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:16 pm

dcajet wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
dcajet wrote:

AA pretty much owns the Argentina - US market (and the lucrative business traveler); they have a strong local connection (which includes locally based cabin crew), AAdvantage partnerships with local banks, strong cargo demand on both ends of all routes and a reputation for consistency and reliability, particularly when compared to AR. Incidentally, AR has postponed its return to JFK until June.

That AA does. The Admirals Club at EZE was overflowing on a daily basis with the flights to MIA, JFK, DFW and LAX.


The Admirals Club has been closed since the beginning of the pandemic, as it's been the case for the Skyteam lounge (operated by AR). I think the only lounge open is the Star Alliance one.

I was referring to pre-pandemic times. I haven’t been since the pandemic started but I doubt it would be overflowing now even if it were open.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4656
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:26 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

Looks like a number of JFK long hauls (aside from the recently announced TLV and ATH routes) resume from the end of March, as of now, but obviously very much subject to change and in the pandemic world, 2 months away is an eternity where a lot can change quickly. JFK-EZE is a profitable route for AA for a number of reasons. Carries a ton of cargo and always has had strong point of sales for itineraries originating in the US and in Argentina. AA has been the constant in the market, even through economic crises, whereas AR has come and gone, DL was short-lived, and UA has been very much on and off since moving it to EWR from IAD in 2013.


AA pretty much owns the Argentina - US market (and the lucrative business traveler); they have a strong local connection (which includes locally based cabin crew), AAdvantage partnerships with local banks, strong cargo demand on both ends of all routes and a reputation for consistency and reliability, particularly when compared to AR. Incidentally, AR has postponed its return to JFK until June.

That AA does. The Admirals Club at EZE was overflowing on a daily basis with the flights to MIA, JFK, DFW and LAX.


Yeah, the Admirals Club at EZE (assume it's closed now for the pandemic) is not very large to begin with, so all those flights at peak times would have rendered it pretty crowded and my experience with it was that it always was.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4656
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:29 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Argentina has requested all airlines to reduce frequencies on flights to Brazil (50%) and to Europe, Mexico and the US (30%), effective Feb 1st and initially for 30 days. Consequently, there are changes on AA flights at EZE.

* AA907/8 MIA-EZE remains at 1 daily with 77E
* AA996/7 DFW-EZE goes from daily to 3x w with 789

MIA-EZE is going out fully booked pretty much every day, so it makes sense to chop DFW-EZE where passenger demand is not as strong.

On a related note, JFK-EZE AA953/4 has been loaded, eff March 28th.


Looks like a number of JFK long hauls (aside from the recently announced TLV and ATH routes) resume from the end of March, as of now, but obviously very much subject to change and in the pandemic world, 2 months away is an eternity where a lot can change quickly. JFK-EZE is a profitable route for AA for a number of reasons. Carries a ton of cargo and always has had strong point of sales for itineraries originating in the US and in Argentina. AA has been the constant in the market, even through economic crises, whereas AR has come and gone, DL was short-lived, and UA has been very much on and off since moving it to EWR from IAD in 2013.


UA also cancelled EZE from EWR around November 2019. I had a flight Thanksgiving 2019 and they rerouted me via Houston


UA has started and stopped EWR-EZE a few times since it moved the flight from IAD in 2012. It was suspended, along with the short-lived EWR-IST UA flight in the Fall of 2013, citing economic reasons and again in in 2019 roughly 2 years after it relaunched. It was more successful the second time around having been quickly upgraded to a 767-400ER from the -300ER. The issue UA claims is always Argentina's boom and bust economy and specifically, the capital controls in place which severely limits expatriation of liquidity earned on Argentina point of sale revenue.
 
dcajet
Posts: 5035
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: AA to cancel MIA-MVD?

Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:38 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

As discussed up thread, AA is not leaving Montevideo. Customers will continue to have the option of flying American Airlines non-stop to Miami.


The way things stand today it will be only as long as their trip is from December to March. Otherwise, a connection at either EZE, GRU, SCL or PTY will be called for.


It is not going seasonal on a permanent basis.


Certainly that is the desired outcome but given the current environment I would not hold my breath. MVD is a highly seasonal destination and only makes money during the southern summer peak season, and the 777 is simply too big for daily year round operations at MVD. The flight would be an ideal candidate for the A321XLR.
 
dcajet
Posts: 5035
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:52 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

Looks like a number of JFK long hauls (aside from the recently announced TLV and ATH routes) resume from the end of March, as of now, but obviously very much subject to change and in the pandemic world, 2 months away is an eternity where a lot can change quickly. JFK-EZE is a profitable route for AA for a number of reasons. Carries a ton of cargo and always has had strong point of sales for itineraries originating in the US and in Argentina. AA has been the constant in the market, even through economic crises, whereas AR has come and gone, DL was short-lived, and UA has been very much on and off since moving it to EWR from IAD in 2013.


UA also cancelled EZE from EWR around November 2019. I had a flight Thanksgiving 2019 and they rerouted me via Houston


UA has started and stopped EWR-EZE a few times since it moved the flight from IAD in 2012. It was suspended, along with the short-lived EWR-IST UA flight in the Fall of 2013, citing economic reasons and again in in 2019 roughly 2 years after it relaunched. It was more successful the second time around having been quickly upgraded to a 767-400ER from the -300ER. The issue UA claims is always Argentina's boom and bust economy and specifically, the capital controls in place which severely limits expatriation of liquidity earned on Argentina point of sale revenue.


I have not heard any other airline complain recently about capital controls. That was an issue in 2015, and a serious one, that made both COPA and American take measures to avoid being exposed to such controls. I do not discount these controls rearing their ugly head once again in the not too distant future as the current peronist administration is no strange to capital controls (in fact they were the authors of the 2015 ones). Specifically to the EWR-EZE flight, its last iteration fell victim to the big 2019 depreciation of the Argentinian peso that wiped out a good portion of the flight's patrons, as this flight leaned heavy on the Argentina POS: the boom and bust cycle that has befallen Argentina since 1945. American owns the JFK-EZE route and AR plays a distant second fiddle on it. I often wondered if the EWR factor, being not as known as JFK is to the Argentinian traveler, also plays a part in its cyclical nature, while JFK holds its own, even during downturns.
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