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910A
Posts: 1928
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AA to fly PHX-ACV

Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:06 pm

Wasn't expecting this service right now. When the Del Norte Airport (the next county) did a survey a couple of years ago PHX was the #3 or #4 most popular destination.

Press release from Fly Humboldt:

Today American Airlines announced that it will start daily non-stop service from the California Redwood Coast Humboldt County Airport (ACV) to Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport (PHX) starting June 3, 2021.

“American is pleased to add daily, nonstop service between our Phoenix hub and the California Redwood Coast Humboldt County airport,” said Brian Znotins, American’s Vice President of Network Planning. “As customers once again embrace travel, the great outdoors are high on their list of destinations. This new flight provides customers with access to the beauty of the redwood forests and northern coast of California, and it also provides northern California residents with access to hundreds of one-stop connections across American’s network. And when customers take to the skies, our Clean Commitment ensures their well-being through every step of their travel journey.”

American will provide the service with a dual-class 70-seat Canadair CRJ-700 regional jet with one daily flight as follows:

Depart PHX 10:25 a.m. - Arrive ACV 12:55 p.m.

Depart ACV 3:25 p.m. - Arrive PHX 5:50 p.m.

 
Ishrion
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:16 pm

Oh wow, I’ve been waiting for AA to add Arcata. I was expecting LAX, but PHX is great.
Leaving the forums. You may know where to find me.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:27 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Oh wow, I’ve been waiting for AA to add Arcata. I was expecting LAX, but PHX is great.


Didn’t AA recently fly LAX-ACV?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:32 pm

910A wrote:
When the Del Norte Airport (the next county) did a survey a couple of years ago PHX was the #3 or #4 most popular destination.


What was the PDEW on that?
 
continental004
Posts: 462
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:36 pm

Wow, unexpected!

Beautiful region with very little air service (tbh I hope it stays that way).
 
Ishrion
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:41 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Oh wow, I’ve been waiting for AA to add Arcata. I was expecting LAX, but PHX is great.


Didn’t AA recently fly LAX-ACV?


I don’t believe they have. I’m not even sure if they’ve served ACV before.
Leaving the forums. You may know where to find me.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:59 am

UA does ACV-LAX now.
AA last served ACV via American Eagle operated by Wings West with Metroliners to SJC and SFO for awhile. Good luck on this and I hope it succeeds.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
mga707
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:27 am

Back in the pre-deregulation '70s Air West/Hughes Airwest usually offered direct (but not nonstop) DC-9 service between the two points as well. Sometimes direct TUS-ACV service as well. RW did not have nonstop PHX-LAX authority, but they did have nonstop LAX-ACV service. So the routing was usually something like PHX (or TUS)-SNA-LAX-ACV.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:37 am

AA/Eagle did have plans a few years ago to fly CRJ to LAX, and it was open for sales, but was pulled before it started because they couldn't get the revenue guarantees they needed from Humboldt.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
Wingtips56
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:43 am

We use Eagle from MFR to PHX (and they have added a second flight); a bit over 2 hour drive in unobstructed highway conditions, and park free even for long trips at a hotel. ACV is closer, but the Holiday Inn there is very expensive for a park&fly. Plus there is always the threat of the Hwy 101 Last Chance Grade slipping down into the ocean.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
Wingtips56
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:05 am

It's not open to book in AA.com yet (Sunday am run), but the Eureka Times-Standard article has the schedule as:

"The airline will provide service with a dual-class 70-seat Canadair CRJ-700 regional jet with one flight daily:

Depart PHX 10:25 a.m. – Arrive ACV 12:55 p.m.
Depart ACV 3:25 p.m. – Arrive PHX 5:50 p.m."
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:20 am

A “beach” destination from Phoenix. Likely not a bad add, to be honest.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:21 am

It's a pretty chilly beach. But there is a nude beach under the northern flight path.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
dcah62
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:40 am

Who is the operator? Skywest, Envoy?
 
MLIAA
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:44 am

dcah62 wrote:
Who is the operator? Skywest, Envoy?


It will be SkyWest.
A319 A320 A321 A332 B712 B722 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B763 B764 B772 B788 B789 MD80 S340 E140 E145 E170 E175 E195 CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9
 
Chuska
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:44 am

sprxUSA wrote:
UA does ACV-LAX now.
AA last served ACV via American Eagle operated by Wings West with Metroliners to SJC and SFO for awhile. Good luck on this and I hope it succeeds.


That was way way back. AA*/Wing West did ACV-SFO from 1987 thru 1990 then switched to SJC from 1990 thru 1992 when AA had a SJC hub.
 
MarkATL
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:05 am

This is great news. I live about fifteen miles from ACV and ANY competition here would be very welcomed.
 
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Chasensfo
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:15 am

Wow, I'd never thought this would happen before Delta\SkyWest returned with the SLC service, or even LAX. Good for ACV. But given how often ACV has diversions due to the coastal fog, I wonder if they'd fly all the way back to PHX like AA\Mesa flights do at MRY or if they'd go to SMF\SFO\SJC or something.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:26 am

Maybe a gas-and-go at MFR if it looks like it could open up in a reasonable time. Divert to RDD for the shortest bus ride if it's not going to open, but it's not an AA station (although OO is there). Back to origin (PHX) -if they have enough fuel- can be better than stranding the passengers at a third point. (LF was diverting OAK-CEC to MFR and bussing back, but that was getting too costly, so they go back to OAK now.) Going all the way back to PHX is harsh. Not so great returning to origin when the next flight is same time tomorrow and may be full, but they could trickle-protect through other hubs.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
deltairlines
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:40 am

Wingtips56 wrote:
Maybe a gas-and-go at MFR if it looks like it could open up in a reasonable time. Divert to RDD for the shortest bus ride if it's not going to open, but it's not an AA station (although OO is there). Back to origin (PHX) -if they have enough fuel- can be better than stranding the passengers at a third point. (LF was diverting OAK-CEC to MFR and bussing back, but that was getting too costly, so they go back to OAK now.) Going all the way back to PHX is harsh. Not so great returning to origin when the next flight is same time tomorrow and may be full, but they could trickle-protect through other hubs.


PHX-ACV is a 845 mile flight. They'd have to make a decision to return to PHX way too early in the process to make it worth going all the way back - a full CRJ-700 would be pushing it to the edge to get all the way up close to ACV, declare a divert and go back to PHX. MFR at 117 miles away or SMF at 207 miles away, both of which are online AA stations, would likely take the divert. Keep in mind too that the ground time on this flight is 3h30 minutes. If you can't get into ACV right away and decide to go to MFR, add 15-20 minutes flying time to get up to MFR and then 25-30 minutes to eventually make it back to ACV. A CR7 can be turned in 30 minutes, so you've got a decent window that if you still need to go into MFR, you'd have a good 90 minutes or so that you could wait on the ground up there and still get to ACV and still you have an on-time departure back to PHX.

The one thing I'd be curious to see if AS decides to make a move into ACV. Seems like a market that could potentially make a couple of Q400s up to SEA work in the long run. With AA and AS both in oneworld and with their codesharing, it could create the potential to grow a loyal customer base there and fragment the market from United. Overall it's a small market, but I wouldn't be surprised if AS takes a look at ACV in their corporate office.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:54 am

deltairlines wrote:
Wingtips56 wrote:
Maybe a gas-and-go at MFR if it looks like it could open up in a reasonable time. Divert to RDD for the shortest bus ride if it's not going to open, but it's not an AA station (although OO is there). Back to origin (PHX) -if they have enough fuel- can be better than stranding the passengers at a third point. (LF was diverting OAK-CEC to MFR and bussing back, but that was getting too costly, so they go back to OAK now.) Going all the way back to PHX is harsh. Not so great returning to origin when the next flight is same time tomorrow and may be full, but they could trickle-protect through other hubs.


PHX-ACV is a 845 mile flight. They'd have to make a decision to return to PHX way too early in the process to make it worth going all the way back - a full CRJ-700 would be pushing it to the edge to get all the way up close to ACV, declare a divert and go back to PHX. MFR at 117 miles away or SMF at 207 miles away, both of which are online AA stations, would likely take the divert. Keep in mind too that the ground time on this flight is 3h30 minutes. If you can't get into ACV right away and decide to go to MFR, add 15-20 minutes flying time to get up to MFR and then 25-30 minutes to eventually make it back to ACV. A CR7 can be turned in 30 minutes, so you've got a decent window that if you still need to go into MFR, you'd have a good 90 minutes or so that you could wait on the ground up there and still get to ACV and still you have an on-time departure back to PHX.

The one thing I'd be curious to see if AS decides to make a move into ACV. Seems like a market that could potentially make a couple of Q400s up to SEA work in the long run. With AA and AS both in oneworld and with their codesharing, it could create the potential to grow a loyal customer base there and fragment the market from United. Overall it's a small market, but I wouldn't be surprised if AS takes a look at ACV in their corporate office.


AS has done ACV before. Often times it was a round-robin with RDD. First it was from PDX. Then they did SEA. Then tried LAX. They discontinued both ACV and RDD quite a few years ago.

I remember an early Air California timetable in which the route map showed Eureka as being a future route from SFO. Never happened. I think it was 1970 or 71.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:04 am

Chasensfo wrote:
Wow, I'd never thought this would happen before Delta\SkyWest returned with the SLC service, or even LAX. Good for ACV. But given how often ACV has diversions due to the coastal fog, I wonder if they'd fly all the way back to PHX like AA\Mesa flights do at MRY or if they'd go to SMF\SFO\SJC or something.

Note the times.... The marine layer will almost always burn off by mid day, and this looks like yet another schedule slack fill by Skywest. The long layover will allow for delay or diversion, even if it doesn’t.

I assume this is another subsidized at-risk for Skywest? They have been aggressively going after these since late fall.
 
ah414211
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:20 am

FlyingElvii wrote:

I assume this is another subsidized at-risk for Skywest? They have been aggressively going after these since late fall.


I don’t believe that’s the case. SkyWest does not fly anything at risk for AA anymore. That ended when the CRJ-200s were removed from AA flying.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:41 am

Whoa, UA is the only carrier serving ACV these days?!? What ever happened to AS and DL services to ACV?

AA's growth at PHX has been exciting to watch. Shame on me for thinking a wonderful hub at PHX was at risk for getting de-hubbed in favor of LAX (where the Eagle's Nest made for truly awful experiences for connecting as well as O&D pax on all American Eagle flights to/from LAX). In the end, PHX functions as AA's gateway to smaller Western markets like ACV, BIL, BOI, GEG, MFR and YYC rather than LAX - which is good, since PHX offers such a better passenger experience than LAX does. AS seems to have filled much of the void left from AA's withdrawal at LAX, though!
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
BAINY3
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:51 am

mga707 wrote:
Back in the pre-deregulation '70s Air West/Hughes Airwest usually offered direct (but not nonstop) DC-9 service between the two points as well. Sometimes direct TUS-ACV service as well. RW did not have nonstop PHX-LAX authority, but they did have nonstop LAX-ACV service. So the routing was usually something like PHX (or TUS)-SNA-LAX-ACV.


I'm sure the specific routings varied over time. For another example, as of April 1975, the only through-plane service for that market was RW with a PHX-SJC-SFO-ACV routing, once daily each morning on a DC-9-10. The return trip was the same in reverse but didn't operate Saturdays. Meanwhile, Los Angeles service was on the LAX-SMX-SFO-ACV route or LAX-SNA-ACV routing.
 
Ishrion
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:03 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
Whoa, UA is the only carrier serving ACV these days?!? What ever happened to AS and DL services to ACV?


Looks like Alaska/Horizon ended LAX-ACV in 2011, DL ended SLC-ACV in 2010.
Leaving the forums. You may know where to find me.
 
Wingtips56
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:31 am

deltairlines wrote:
Wingtips56 wrote:
Maybe a gas-and-go at MFR if it looks like it could open up in a reasonable time. Divert to RDD for the shortest bus ride if it's not going to open, but it's not an AA station (although OO is there). Back to origin (PHX) -if they have enough fuel- can be better than stranding the passengers at a third point. (LF was diverting OAK-CEC to MFR and bussing back, but that was getting too costly, so they go back to OAK now.) Going all the way back to PHX is harsh. Not so great returning to origin when the next flight is same time tomorrow and may be full, but they could trickle-protect through other hubs.


PHX-ACV is a 845 mile flight. They'd have to make a decision to return to PHX way too early in the process to make it worth going all the way back - a full CRJ-700 would be pushing it to the edge to get all the way up close to ACV, declare a divert and go back to PHX. MFR at 117 miles away or SMF at 207 miles away, both of which are online AA stations, would likely take the divert. Keep in mind too that the ground time on this flight is 3h30 minutes. If you can't get into ACV right away and decide to go to MFR, add 15-20 minutes flying time to get up to MFR and then 25-30 minutes to eventually make it back to ACV. A CR7 can be turned in 30 minutes, so you've got a decent window that if you still need to go into MFR, you'd have a good 90 minutes or so that you could wait on the ground up there and still get to ACV and still you have an on-time departure back to PHX.
.

30 minutes to turn a CR7? I guess times have changed; at AirCal, we used to turn 737-200 in 10 minutes when running late, full off, full on. 15 minutes for a 160/162 seat DC-9-80.
Anyway, the diversion will depend greatly on what reopening looks like for ACV. Again, RDD provides the shortest bus ride if they dump the passengers and deadhead back to PHX. It's an OO station, so they might do it aside from being a UAx station without working out an agreement with UA.
For a gas and go, RDD or MFR work if the plan is to return to ACV....possibly with enough fuel to continue back to PHX. Sucks, but I could see it happen. But it if gets in to ACV, the turn time isn't that huge a deal. Around here (ACV and CEC) if the flight departs at all in the same day, it's close enough to on-time. :? Diversion to CEC (we seem to have less fog than ACV) won't happen as OO pulled out of CEC when they retired the EMB-120, saying the CR2 couldn't get in (hmm..really?) No real busses available here if they wanted to drop the load.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
alasizon
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:16 pm

Wingtips56 wrote:
deltairlines wrote:
Wingtips56 wrote:
Maybe a gas-and-go at MFR if it looks like it could open up in a reasonable time. Divert to RDD for the shortest bus ride if it's not going to open, but it's not an AA station (although OO is there). Back to origin (PHX) -if they have enough fuel- can be better than stranding the passengers at a third point. (LF was diverting OAK-CEC to MFR and bussing back, but that was getting too costly, so they go back to OAK now.) Going all the way back to PHX is harsh. Not so great returning to origin when the next flight is same time tomorrow and may be full, but they could trickle-protect through other hubs.


PHX-ACV is a 845 mile flight. They'd have to make a decision to return to PHX way too early in the process to make it worth going all the way back - a full CRJ-700 would be pushing it to the edge to get all the way up close to ACV, declare a divert and go back to PHX. MFR at 117 miles away or SMF at 207 miles away, both of which are online AA stations, would likely take the divert. Keep in mind too that the ground time on this flight is 3h30 minutes. If you can't get into ACV right away and decide to go to MFR, add 15-20 minutes flying time to get up to MFR and then 25-30 minutes to eventually make it back to ACV. A CR7 can be turned in 30 minutes, so you've got a decent window that if you still need to go into MFR, you'd have a good 90 minutes or so that you could wait on the ground up there and still get to ACV and still you have an on-time departure back to PHX.
.

30 minutes to turn a CR7? I guess times have changed; at AirCal, we used to turn 737-200 in 10 minutes when running late, full off, full on. 15 minutes for a 160/162 seat DC-9-80.
Anyway, the diversion will depend greatly on what reopening looks like for ACV. Again, RDD provides the shortest bus ride if they dump the passengers and deadhead back to PHX. It's an OO station, so they might do it aside from being a UAx station without working out an agreement with UA.
For a gas and go, RDD or MFR work if the plan is to return to ACV....possibly with enough fuel to continue back to PHX. Sucks, but I could see it happen. But it if gets in to ACV, the turn time isn't that huge a deal. Around here (ACV and CEC) if the flight departs at all in the same day, it's close enough to on-time. :? Diversion to CEC (we seem to have less fog than ACV) won't happen as OO pulled out of CEC when they retired the EMB-120, saying the CR2 couldn't get in (hmm..really?) No real busses available here if they wanted to drop the load.


Most of the diversions (if they happen) will be to SMF or SFO, just like MFR is. AA rarely does buses over 100 miles now, typically pax are given the choice to get off and drive on their own or extra section it back to PHX and be rebooked for the next flight. That being said I expect very few weather diversions, the timings help with the marine layer and there is enough play in the schedule to adjust to any weather in ACV.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
halrudy
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:29 pm

Is the long ground time at ACV for this flight due to the possibility of diversions?
 
alasizon
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:01 pm

halrudy wrote:
Is the long ground time at ACV for this flight due to the possibility of diversions?


Nope, just has to do with connection direction, PHX is still a directional banked hub most of the day so bringing it back 90 min earlier would put it into a westbound connection bank for which ACV is already decently connected.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
halrudy
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Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:08 pm

Thanks alasizon, makes sense.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:21 pm

As noted in the other thread, AA's launching PHX to Arcata (ACV)

And from Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... 75c1b2c856

- Looking at CLT-COS
- CLT-HNL bookings meeting expectations
- CLT summer schedule may get close to 2019 number of departures
Leaving the forums. You may know where to find me.
 
ahj2000
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:26 pm

Ishrion wrote:
As noted in the other thread, AA's launching PHX to Arcata (ACV)

And from Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... 75c1b2c856

- Looking at CLT-COS
- CLT-HNL bookings meeting expectations
- CLT summer schedule may get close to 2019 number of departures

Another new destination!
CLT-COS is a surprise when there aren’t any flight to PHX.
HNL meeting expectations-is this meeting low expectations or are they suggesting the route will do well?
-Andrés Juánez
 
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cathay747
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:25 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
As noted in the other thread, AA's launching PHX to Arcata (ACV)

And from Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... 75c1b2c856

- Looking at CLT-COS
- CLT-HNL bookings meeting expectations
- CLT summer schedule may get close to 2019 number of departures


HNL meeting expectations-is this meeting low expectations or are they suggesting the route will do well?


Yeah, exactly...what ARE the "expectations"? LOL Don't get me wrong, I hope to see and would be happy to see this route prove successful this time around. I just wonder if it will be though, even with the right equip. this time in terms of range.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
usairways85
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:01 pm

This a subsequent quote from the same Forbes article:
Reminded that CLT-HNL failed ten years ago when US Airways tried it briefly, he said, “The world’s different these days. We have a lot of widebodies. Normally (the route) would have to compete with transatlantic for use of widebodies, but we all know how the transatlantic is performing now.”


That says to me it is doing moderately well in a market that is almost solely focused on domestic, Caribbean, Mexican warm weather travel. At some point in time when the market skews back to TA / international travel, the numbers need to be better to justify the use of a 772.
 
ABEguy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:31 pm

AAplat4life wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
My bet is that AA is going to print money on MIA-TLV. Cant understand why they didnt do this much, much, much earlier.


AA is the least profitable of the major USA airlines, before and after the COVID pandemic. TLV may be a good deployment of assets for now, but it’s not enough to address AA’s lagging financial performance.


It's always fascinating to read "matter of fact" statements on this forum when there is no fact to back them up. Just wishful thinking by some. And the idea that you know what's going to happen post pandemic is laughable. Lets introduce some facts if that's okay with you.

Major airlines earnings pre-Covid, in order from most to least profitable beginning in 2014 (post mergers):

******* 1. DAL - 2. UAL - 3. AAL - 4. LUV - 5. ALK - 6. JBLU
(2014) = 659m --- 1.1B ---- 2.9B ---- 1.1B ---- 605m ---- 401m
(2015) = 4.5B ---- 7.3B ---- 7.6B ---- 2.2B ---- 848m ---- 677m
(2016) = 4.2B ---- 2.2B ---- 2.6B ---- 2.2B --- 797m ---- 727m
(2017) = 3.2B ---- 2.1B ---- 1.3B ---- 3.3B ---- 960m ---- 1.1B
(2018) = 3.9B ---- 2.1B ---- 1.4B ---- 2.4B ---- 437m ---- 89m
(2019) = 4.7B ---- 3.0B ---- 1.7B ---- 2.3B ---- 769m ---- 569

{DAL Net income = 21.1B} - {UAL Net income = 17.8B} - {AAL Net income = 17.5B} - {LUV Net income = 13.5B} - {ALK Net income = 4.4B} - {JBLU Net income = 3.7B}
{DAL 2020 losses = 12.4B} - {UAL 2020 losses = 7.0B} - {AAL 2020 losses = 8.8B} - {LUV 2020 losses = 3.0B} - {ALK 2020 losses = 1.3B} - {JBLU 2020 losses = 1.3B}
 
as739x
Posts: 5255
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:12 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
A “beach” destination from Phoenix. Likely not a bad add, to be honest.


Not sure what your definition of a Beach Destination is LOL. The coast there is rocky and the water peaks at 63* Good hiking and biking however!

The flight is timed well too, not arriving late in the evening when low fog becomes a standard problem and occasionally causes diversions.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
UA444
Posts: 3108
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:59 pm

Chasensfo wrote:
Wow, I'd never thought this would happen before Delta\SkyWest returned with the SLC service, or even LAX. Good for ACV. But given how often ACV has diversions due to the coastal fog, I wonder if they'd fly all the way back to PHX like AA\Mesa flights do at MRY or if they'd go to SMF\SFO\SJC or something.

RDD
 
ABEguy
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:22 pm

ABEguy wrote:
AAplat4life wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
My bet is that AA is going to print money on MIA-TLV. Cant understand why they didnt do this much, much, much earlier.


AA is the least profitable of the major USA airlines, before and after the COVID pandemic. TLV may be a good deployment of assets for now, but it’s not enough to address AA’s lagging financial performance.


It's always fascinating to read "matter of fact" statements on this forum when there is no fact to back them up. Just wishful thinking by some. And the idea that you know what's going to happen post pandemic is laughable. Lets introduce some facts if that's okay with you.

Major airlines earnings pre-Covid, in order from most to least profitable beginning in 2014 (post mergers):

******* 1. DAL - 2. UAL - 3. AAL - 4. LUV - 5. ALK - 6. JBLU
(2014) = 659m --- 1.1B ---- 2.9B ---- 1.1B ---- 605m ---- 401m
(2015) = 4.5B ---- 7.3B ---- 7.6B ---- 2.2B ---- 848m ---- 677m
(2016) = 4.2B ---- 2.2B ---- 2.6B ---- 2.2B --- 797m ---- 727m
(2017) = 3.2B ---- 2.1B ---- 1.3B ---- 3.3B ---- 960m ---- 1.1B
(2018) = 3.9B ---- 2.1B ---- 1.4B ---- 2.4B ---- 437m ---- 189m
(2019) = 4.7B ---- 3.0B ---- 1.7B ---- 2.3B ---- 769m ---- 569

{DAL Net income = 21.1B} - {UAL Net income = 17.8B} - {AAL Net income = 17.5B} - {LUV Net income = 13.5B} - {ALK Net income = 4.4B} - {JBLU Net income = 3.7B}
{DAL 2020 losses = 12.4B} - {UAL 2020 losses = 7.0B} - {AAL 2020 losses = 8.8B} - {LUV 2020 losses = 3.0B} - {ALK 2020 losses = 1.3B} - {JBLU 2020 losses = 1.3B}


* correction to 2018 JBLU earnings...
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26644
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:37 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
As noted in the other thread, AA's launching PHX to Arcata (ACV)

And from Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... 75c1b2c856

- Looking at CLT-COS
- CLT-HNL bookings meeting expectations
- CLT summer schedule may get close to 2019 number of departures

Another new destination!
CLT-COS is a surprise when there aren’t any flight to PHX.
HNL meeting expectations-is this meeting low expectations or are they suggesting the route will do well?


CLTCOS has not been announced. Just an idea that was floated.
a.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2997
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:53 pm

ABEguy wrote:
AAplat4life wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
My bet is that AA is going to print money on MIA-TLV. Cant understand why they didnt do this much, much, much earlier.


AA is the least profitable of the major USA airlines, before and after the COVID pandemic. TLV may be a good deployment of assets for now, but it’s not enough to address AA’s lagging financial performance.


It's always fascinating to read "matter of fact" statements on this forum when there is no fact to back them up. Just wishful thinking by some. And the idea that you know what's going to happen post pandemic is laughable. Lets introduce some facts if that's okay with you.

Major airlines earnings pre-Covid, in order from most to least profitable beginning in 2014 (post mergers):

******* 1. DAL - 2. UAL - 3. AAL - 4. LUV - 5. ALK - 6. JBLU
(2014) = 659m --- 1.1B ---- 2.9B ---- 1.1B ---- 605m ---- 401m
(2015) = 4.5B ---- 7.3B ---- 7.6B ---- 2.2B ---- 848m ---- 677m
(2016) = 4.2B ---- 2.2B ---- 2.6B ---- 2.2B --- 797m ---- 727m
(2017) = 3.2B ---- 2.1B ---- 1.3B ---- 3.3B ---- 960m ---- 1.1B
(2018) = 3.9B ---- 2.1B ---- 1.4B ---- 2.4B ---- 437m ---- 89m
(2019) = 4.7B ---- 3.0B ---- 1.7B ---- 2.3B ---- 769m ---- 569

{DAL Net income = 21.1B} - {UAL Net income = 17.8B} - {AAL Net income = 17.5B} - {LUV Net income = 13.5B} - {ALK Net income = 4.4B} - {JBLU Net income = 3.7B}
{DAL 2020 losses = 12.4B} - {UAL 2020 losses = 7.0B} - {AAL 2020 losses = 8.8B} - {LUV 2020 losses = 3.0B} - {ALK 2020 losses = 1.3B} - {JBLU 2020 losses = 1.3B}


These are not operational earnings and losses. Also, if you want to show a truly competitive picture you would need to adjust for size. Of course the big 3 are going to outperform the smaller carriers when looking at total earnings. Operationally, AA continues to lag behind its peers post-Covid and can't get away from the fact that it's tremendously over-leveraged due to giant amounts of debt incurred due to fleet planning choices it made within the last decade. It's not a coincidence that AA is suddenly partnering so closely with B6 and AS and flying its fleet to the hilt on any new route that can be conceived while UA and DL are being more conservative. All the airlines are losing boatloads of money, but AA probably has the fewest options to remain solvent given its high debt burden.

Jeremy
 
mga707
Posts: 368
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: AA to fly PHX-ACV

Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:13 pm

BAINY3 wrote:
mga707 wrote:
Back in the pre-deregulation '70s Air West/Hughes Airwest usually offered direct (but not nonstop) DC-9 service between the two points as well. Sometimes direct TUS-ACV service as well. RW did not have nonstop PHX-LAX authority, but they did have nonstop LAX-ACV service. So the routing was usually something like PHX (or TUS)-SNA-LAX-ACV.


I'm sure the specific routings varied over time. For another example, as of April 1975, the only through-plane service for that market was RW with a PHX-SJC-SFO-ACV routing, once daily each morning on a DC-9-10. The return trip was the same in reverse but didn't operate Saturdays. Meanwhile, Los Angeles service was on the LAX-SMX-SFO-ACV route or LAX-SNA-ACV routing.


One of the flights I saw when looking through my RW timetable collection was from summer 1972: SEA-PDX-EUG-ACV-LAX-SNA-PHX-TUS. That would've been a fun 'milk run' to take from start to finish.
 
ABEguy
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:24 pm

SESGDL wrote:
ABEguy wrote:
AAplat4life wrote:

AA is the least profitable of the major USA airlines, before and after the COVID pandemic. TLV may be a good deployment of assets for now, but it’s not enough to address AA’s lagging financial performance.


It's always fascinating to read "matter of fact" statements on this forum when there is no fact to back them up. Just wishful thinking by some. And the idea that you know what's going to happen post pandemic is laughable. Lets introduce some facts if that's okay with you.

Major airlines earnings pre-Covid, in order from most to least profitable beginning in 2014 (post mergers):

******* 1. DAL - 2. UAL - 3. AAL - 4. LUV - 5. ALK - 6. JBLU
(2014) = 659m --- 1.1B ---- 2.9B ---- 1.1B ---- 605m ---- 401m
(2015) = 4.5B ---- 7.3B ---- 7.6B ---- 2.2B ---- 848m ---- 677m
(2016) = 4.2B ---- 2.2B ---- 2.6B ---- 2.2B --- 797m ---- 727m
(2017) = 3.2B ---- 2.1B ---- 1.3B ---- 3.3B ---- 960m ---- 1.1B
(2018) = 3.9B ---- 2.1B ---- 1.4B ---- 2.4B ---- 437m ---- 89m
(2019) = 4.7B ---- 3.0B ---- 1.7B ---- 2.3B ---- 769m ---- 569

{DAL Net income = 21.1B} - {UAL Net income = 17.8B} - {AAL Net income = 17.5B} - {LUV Net income = 13.5B} - {ALK Net income = 4.4B} - {JBLU Net income = 3.7B}
{DAL 2020 losses = 12.4B} - {UAL 2020 losses = 7.0B} - {AAL 2020 losses = 8.8B} - {LUV 2020 losses = 3.0B} - {ALK 2020 losses = 1.3B} - {JBLU 2020 losses = 1.3B}


These are not operational earnings and losses. Also, if you want to show a truly competitive picture you would need to adjust for size. Of course the big 3 are going to outperform the smaller carriers when looking at total earnings. Operationally, AA continues to lag behind its peers post-Covid and can't get away from the fact that it's tremendously over-leveraged due to giant amounts of debt incurred due to fleet planning choices it made within the last decade. It's not a coincidence that AA is suddenly partnering so closely with B6 and AS and flying its fleet to the hilt on any new route that can be conceived while UA and DL are being more conservative. All the airlines are losing boatloads of money, but AA probably has the fewest options to remain solvent given its high debt burden.

Jeremy


The high debt doesn’t even need to be serviced for several years, and it’s cheap debt at that. Why is AA in debt to begin with? Mostly Re-fleeting, along with new terminals, HQ, lounges etc. Those shiny Maxes, a321s, and 787’s aren’t free you know. It’s part of doing business. And guess what, Deltas time to re-fleet will come too, and when the time comes they’ll finance those planes just like AA did. Unless you think those 757/767 and 717 will just continue flying indefinitely.

Would AA have pulled the trigger on such large expenses all at once if they knew COVID was around the corner? My guess is no but now we’re playing hindsight.

Operationally AA did in fact experience a huge drop off in 2019. But you should know why that is. Labor unrest to the tune of each day starting with 30+ airframes out of service (that’s not including the grounded Maxes). Then compounding through out the day. Endless cancellations and delays until a court order was issued to stop the job action.
 
OKCDCA
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:55 pm

Ishrion wrote:
As noted in the other thread, AA's launching PHX to Arcata (ACV)

And from Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... 75c1b2c856

- Looking at CLT-COS
- CLT-HNL bookings meeting expectations
- CLT summer schedule may get close to 2019 number of departures

CLT-COS would be a nice add. I think that’s a perfect 175 route. I hate how Znotins seems to allude AA sees COS and DEN as the same market. I can assure him they are certainly not the same and would be pleased to give him a ride on I-25 to prove it...
 
JohanTally
Posts: 358
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:38 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
As noted in the other thread, AA's launching PHX to Arcata (ACV)

And from Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... 75c1b2c856

- Looking at CLT-COS
- CLT-HNL bookings meeting expectations
- CLT summer schedule may get close to 2019 number of departures

CLT-COS would be a nice add. I think that’s a perfect 175 route. I hate how Znotins seems to allude AA sees COS and DEN as the same market. I can assure him they are certainly not the same and would be pleased to give him a ride on I-25 to prove it...


I doubt it would be a E175 if this hypothetical route started but probably a once daily 319. How is the E175 takeoff performance at MTOW 6k feet above sea-level?
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

AA Adds LAX-DRO/GJT/MSO, PHX-BZN/IDA, DFW-IDA

Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:51 pm

Quite a notable expansion from AA this week with MIA-TLV/PBM and the other new routes.

Operating from June 3 through August 16:

- Saturday-only LAX to Durango (DRO) with CRJ-700

- 1x daily LAX to Grand Junction (GJT) with CRJ-700

- 1x daily LAX to Missoula (MSO) with CRJ-700

- 1x daily PHX to Bozeman (BZN) with CRJ-900

New year-round flights to Idaho Falls (IDA) starting June 3:

- 1x daily from DFW and 1x daily from PHX with the CRJ-700

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... nia-idaho/
Leaving the forums. You may know where to find me.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: AA Adds LAX-DRO/GJT/MSO, PHX-BZN/IDA, DFW-IDA

Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:14 am

Kind of shocking that PHX-BZN wasn't already served. Especially with both SLC and DEN serving it.
 
alasizon
Posts: 3032
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AA Adds LAX-DRO/GJT/MSO, PHX-BZN/IDA, DFW-IDA

Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:15 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Kind of shocking that PHX-BZN wasn't already served. Especially with both SLC and DEN serving it.


For a while AA ignored Montana. HP used to serve PHX-BZN back in the day but it was cut circa 2007 as I recall.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
MaxTrimm
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:43 pm

Re: AA Adds LAX-DRO/GJT/MSO, PHX-BZN/IDA, DFW-IDA

Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:19 am

So AA just needs COS, and the west coast is pretty well covered all the way through. I can’t think of many places left. I believe PSC is the largest remaining airport of the western states to not have AA service from PHX.
 
alasizon
Posts: 3032
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AA Adds LAX-DRO/GJT/MSO, PHX-BZN/IDA, DFW-IDA

Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:31 am

MaxTrimm wrote:
So AA just needs COS, and the west coast is pretty well covered all the way through. I can’t think of many places left. I believe PSC is the largest remaining airport of the western states to not have AA service from PHX.

AA already serves COS from the east. PSC and BLI are the two big ones missing service completely but there are still some more dots to be filled in/increased/made year round.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent

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