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tphuang
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:00 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
3. Unclear which, if any, routes are being dropped

Why would airlines be dropping routes right now? They can keep advertising a big schedule, collect revenues and chop down schedule to what they actually want to operate 1 to 2 months out.


I mean there are countless of examples of airlines dropping routes during COVID

This is one right here:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... -airlines/

B6 can't drop JFK routes, but AA can, and you have argued they will.


Sure, but those are quite rare vs the number of routes airlines have added. All the airlines have been advertising a much larger schedule/routes than they will eventually settle down on. At the moment, you don't get a lot of benefits from dropping routes. JetBlue has added well over 100 routes by this point since pandemic hit and I can't remember a single route that they have officially and permanently discontinued aside from the LGB closure. At some point, they and other airlines will have to start dropping routes.

At some point when demand and booking curves settle down a little more and airlines know exactly what they want their post-COVID network to look like, then they will probably start chopping routes/frequencies. But until then, there is little incentive for them to drop routes, but plenty of incentives for them to keep advertising routes they might not bring back.
 
Jshank83
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:11 pm

DL dropped a bunch of routes to CVG
WN has dropped a lot of routes also from their schedule.
SY basically dropped everything from PDX as well as others in their map.

There is plenty of route dropping out there.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:16 pm

ABEguy wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
AA added new flights

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

Domestic
BOS Asheville, North Carolina (AVL) June 5 – Nov. 6
BOS Columbus, Ohio (CMH) Aug. 17, year-round
BOS Jackson Hole, Wyoming (JAC) June 5 – Sept. 4
BOS Traverse City, Michigan (TVC) June 5 – Sept. 6
BOS Wilmington, North Carolina (ILM) June 5 – Aug. 14
JFK Orange County, California (SNA) June 2, year-round
LGA Kansas City, Missouri (MCI) Sept. 8, year-round
LGA Key West, Florida (EYW) June 5 – Sept. 4
LGA Myrtle Beach, South Carolina (MYR) June 3 – Sept. 7
LGA Pensacola, Florida (PNS) June 3 – Sept. 7
LGA Rapid City, South Dakota (RAP) June 5 – Sept. 4
LGA Savannah, Georgia (SAV) June 3 – Sept. 7

International
American will launch three new daily routes from JFK to Colombia – Cali (CLO), Bogota (BOG) and Medellin (MDE) – and will begin flying three times per week to Santiago, Chile (SCL) from JFK on a Boeing 777-200, until flights begin operating daily in November. Sun-seeking customers can also look forward to new Saturday service from JFK to the soothing waves in St. Lucia (UVF) and the beautiful beaches in Turks and Caicos (PLS) beginning on June 5, complementing JetBlue’s existing service..


Great to see. There goes the narrative that a certain poster was pushing that AA would basicly just operate hub flights and long haul from NYC.


Unfortunately, other than the Colombia, Chile, SNA, UVF/PLS adds, these are all Eagle.


BOS-JAC probably will be 1-2 weekly A319 or A320. Its almost 2000 statute miles.
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FlyPNS1
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:07 am

Looking back, I think this is the first time ever PNS would have nonstop service to LGA. Back around 2005, DL experimented with PNS-JFK, but it was short lived. UA experimented with PNS-EWR in 2019. It was supposed to come back in 2020, but COVID killed that. Maybe this works, though I suspect AA is partially just slot squatting on a leisure route.

Interesting how AA and DL approach a market like PNS.

DL uses high frequency mainline only service, but only flies PNS to ATL.

AA will fly PNS to DFW, ORD, CLT, MIA, DCA, PHL and now LGA...but almost entirely using large RJs.

Neither strategy is wrong of course as they reflect the unique strengths and weaknesses of each carrier. Though I still believe DL could do a seasonal MSP-PNS route.
 
ABEguy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:03 am

adamh8297 wrote:
ABEguy wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Great to see. There goes the narrative that a certain poster was pushing that AA would basicly just operate hub flights and long haul from NYC.


Unfortunately, other than the Colombia, Chile, SNA, UVF/PLS adds, these are all Eagle.


BOS-JAC probably will be 1-2 weekly A319 or A320. Its almost 2000 statute miles.


Yes you're right, those longer ones will be mainline.
 
ABEguy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:14 am

tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
here is what I actually wrote. Please do not misrepresent me.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1455979&start=300#p22644409
"the big question is how long does AA sustain routes like ATL/DTW/MSP? These were definitely all loss-leaders out of LGA. And what about the midwest stuff like CLE/CMH/IND/CVG? They struggled in all these places against DL. Are these the kind of routes that AA wants to bring back post-COVID? I think AA is still looking to see how long it will take demand to come back to LGA. It certainly would not surprise me if AA decides to drop these routes."

The question isn't whether they will bring back LGA-CLE/CMH/IND. If they want to keep their LGA slots and don't want to give up their metal flying, they will fly these routes. Up to this point, the amount of growth at LGA that B6 is talking about is basically AA transferring all the slots that were flying mostly 44/50 seater routes. Among other routes, I think we will see what AA wants to sustain long term. That will depend on long term demand profile out of LGA. As I said, there are profound demand changes in NY area that we might not understand for several years. That will determine how much AA will decide it wants to fly out of LGA in a couple of years.



They will only get to above 50 flights a day if JetBlue is lying.

They are not getting back to 13x daily on a route like JFK-LAX when they will be coordinating schedules with JetBlue. Similarly, JetBlue is not getting back up to 11 to 12x daily on JFK-LAX. Same with JFK-SFO and other routes where they will both fly on. NYC demand is going to have some real changes. Both airlines can add as many routes as they want and advertise as many flights as they want, but they are not going to come close to utilizing their slots anytime soon.


You said it wouldn't surprise you if AA dropped those routes, now you are saying it wasn't even a question that AA would bring those back? What? Btw you said similar things prior, I'm not just isolating that one statement.


I was talking about the future. The increase in B6 flights at LGA is basically from AA routes that were on 44/50 seaters. That should be obvious. It would require AA to bring everything back to utilize all their slots.

I was looking at the likelihood of AA looking to transfer more than 40 to 45 slots at LGA if the partnership is going well and LGA continues to be weak. That would require AA giving up on routes like ATL/DTW/MSP and/or the midwest stuff.

I wasn't even counting JFK-LAX as 13x:
JFK-LAX 10
JFK-MIA 8 (conservative given they are already at 7)
JFK-CLT 7
JFK-SFO 5
JFK-PHX 5
JFK-DFW/ORD/DCA/BOS 5 total (conservative given AA's growth outlook from DFW & DCA)
JFK-LHR 4

I can't see how them operate 10x to LAX, 5x to PHX and 5x to SFO given the schedule coordination with B6. I can't see JFK-BOS coming back, that was a disaster. I don't think ORD/DCA are coming back, since those are just feeding flights that JetBlue will likely takeover. But we will see, I could be wrong on those 2. As of now, I see 2x daily on JFK-DFW as the only destination coming back.

Not really sure why you think JFK-MIA at 8x is conservative if that's what they ran pre-COVID and Florida is about the only place where demand somewhat matches 2019. I don't see why CLT at 7x is a given. If JetBlue launches JFK-CLT, I can definitely see AA just stop at 5x daily there.
That's 44 right there....

Not including:
JFK-AUS 1 (Already being brought back in April)
JFK-MAD/MXP/GRU/EZE/BZN/CDG/TLV/ATH/FCO 9 (All confirmed to restart daily)

That 54 right there.....

AUS probably stick around, but it's a little optimistic to assume all those international routes will stick around given the weak demand environment we are in.

Not even including up to 10+ flights from these routes:
JFK-ANU/BDA/CUN/GEO/LIR/MBJ/SJO/PUJ/STT
JFK-BOG/CLO/MDE/SCL

You might want to check up on AA's recent record on Caribbean routes out of JFK and how long they last. I don't see more than 3 of these routes survive as daily year round flights once business demand comes back.

If you can't see a way AA at JFK gets above 50 departures (you had even previously said 40), then you aren't trying at all


Well, I said 40 to 45. That's definitely under 50.

Now that JetBlue has announced what their planned expansion is and we know how many slots are given up, it's a lot easier to figure out how many AA flights will be operated.

Who knows, maybe JetBlue management is making stuff up. We will see. You are definitely quite optimistic on demand out of JFK.


AA will be growing in JFK according to Vasu. They'll be using JB slots in the late afternoon and JB will get LGA slots that are currently operated by Eagle 50 seaters. According to AA, connecting passengers in JFK between two carriers is too inconvenient, and requires clearing security. The work-around that is AA will operate those EU feeder flights right into T8. JetBlue only announced 3 new routes out of LGA so far, I expect we're about to hear more. Regulators liked the idea too because its a disrupter for Delta in LGA.
 
N292UX
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:27 am

Pretty sure AA was planning on launching BOS-JAC last summer but dropped those plans. Hopefully they actually launch it this time.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:40 am

N292UX wrote:
Pretty sure AA was planning on launching BOS-JAC last summer but dropped those plans. Hopefully they actually launch it this time.


In April 2020 they scheduled BOS-JAC to start in December 2020, but yes, they removed the flight.

BOS-ILM was also supposed to launch last year.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:31 pm

ABEguy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

You said it wouldn't surprise you if AA dropped those routes, now you are saying it wasn't even a question that AA would bring those back? What? Btw you said similar things prior, I'm not just isolating that one statement.


I was talking about the future. The increase in B6 flights at LGA is basically from AA routes that were on 44/50 seaters. That should be obvious. It would require AA to bring everything back to utilize all their slots.

I was looking at the likelihood of AA looking to transfer more than 40 to 45 slots at LGA if the partnership is going well and LGA continues to be weak. That would require AA giving up on routes like ATL/DTW/MSP and/or the midwest stuff.

I wasn't even counting JFK-LAX as 13x:
JFK-LAX 10
JFK-MIA 8 (conservative given they are already at 7)
JFK-CLT 7
JFK-SFO 5
JFK-PHX 5
JFK-DFW/ORD/DCA/BOS 5 total (conservative given AA's growth outlook from DFW & DCA)
JFK-LHR 4

I can't see how them operate 10x to LAX, 5x to PHX and 5x to SFO given the schedule coordination with B6. I can't see JFK-BOS coming back, that was a disaster. I don't think ORD/DCA are coming back, since those are just feeding flights that JetBlue will likely takeover. But we will see, I could be wrong on those 2. As of now, I see 2x daily on JFK-DFW as the only destination coming back.

Not really sure why you think JFK-MIA at 8x is conservative if that's what they ran pre-COVID and Florida is about the only place where demand somewhat matches 2019. I don't see why CLT at 7x is a given. If JetBlue launches JFK-CLT, I can definitely see AA just stop at 5x daily there.
That's 44 right there....

Not including:
JFK-AUS 1 (Already being brought back in April)
JFK-MAD/MXP/GRU/EZE/BZN/CDG/TLV/ATH/FCO 9 (All confirmed to restart daily)

That 54 right there.....

AUS probably stick around, but it's a little optimistic to assume all those international routes will stick around given the weak demand environment we are in.

Not even including up to 10+ flights from these routes:
JFK-ANU/BDA/CUN/GEO/LIR/MBJ/SJO/PUJ/STT
JFK-BOG/CLO/MDE/SCL

You might want to check up on AA's recent record on Caribbean routes out of JFK and how long they last. I don't see more than 3 of these routes survive as daily year round flights once business demand comes back.

If you can't see a way AA at JFK gets above 50 departures (you had even previously said 40), then you aren't trying at all


Well, I said 40 to 45. That's definitely under 50.

Now that JetBlue has announced what their planned expansion is and we know how many slots are given up, it's a lot easier to figure out how many AA flights will be operated.

Who knows, maybe JetBlue management is making stuff up. We will see. You are definitely quite optimistic on demand out of JFK.


AA will be growing in JFK according to Vasu. They'll be using JB slots in the late afternoon and JB will get LGA slots that are currently operated by Eagle 50 seaters. According to AA, connecting passengers in JFK between two carriers is too inconvenient, and requires clearing security. The work-around that is AA will operate those EU feeder flights right into T8. JetBlue only announced 3 new routes out of LGA so far, I expect we're about to hear more. Regulators liked the idea too because its a disrupter for Delta in LGA.


Connecting pax at JFK between B6 and AA is challenging, given the airport's layout and the distance to cover between T5 and T8, but it can be accomplished air-side with a network of jitneys, similar to what DL developed between T2 and T4. I'm not sure Regulators are all that focused on "disruptors" to DL's LGA operation. While DL dominates LGA (pre-pandemic it was at 250-275 daily departures, AA and Eagle were a close second at 178 daily). JetBlue pre-pandemic wasn't all that big at LGA. The deal, which is complex and carries many pieces of framework that need to be implemented to be sustained, is an effort to balance the big 3 airport coverage. If this all works out according to plan, it will come at the expense of PHL as a gateway to Europe, with some additional service potentially shifted to JFK (ZRH, seasonal to VCE, and one or two more) but it is a long road filled with potholes. In order to succeed, it needs meaningful business travel demand as this is the bread and butter of AA in NY.
 
tphuang
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:06 pm

ABEguy wrote:
AA will be growing in JFK according to Vasu. They'll be using JB slots in the late afternoon and JB will get LGA slots that are currently operated by Eagle 50 seaters. According to AA, connecting passengers in JFK between two carriers is too inconvenient, and requires clearing security. The work-around that is AA will operate those EU feeder flights right into T8. JetBlue only announced 3 new routes out of LGA so far, I expect we're about to hear more. Regulators liked the idea too because its a disrupter for Delta in LGA.


AA will add international routes out of JFK, which it has started doing already. The difference is that AA's international stuff will now be fed by JetBlue instead of all that eagle flying before. Let me show you what JetBlue sent to their crew members.

"Growing at JFK to improve schedules: We know Customers want additional JetBlue flying and a larger transcon schedule out of JFK, but slot availability has limited our options. We get access to American’s slots for more arrivals and departures in the afternoon, where our schedule is severely limited.
...
All this sounds great for JetBlue, but what does American get? American has said this helps them in the northeast where they are simply not big enough to compete with the global carriers. With our growing domestic network connecting more Customers to their long-haul network at JFK, they can focus on new widebody routes. You’ve already seen them announce new markets like Tel Aviv, Athens, and Rio de Janeiro.
"

The airlines can't both add more flights while giving up 7 slots. Of course, JetBlue management can totally be lying or situations could change (like with the pilots voting down LOA). If we base it just on what they are saying internally, AA will have much fewer flights. We will see. I could be totally wrong, but my views are not based on any malicious intention toward AA. In fact, I have flown more in the past 5 years on AA than B6.

In order to succeed, it needs meaningful business travel demand as this is the bread and butter of AA in NY.

exactly, a biggest part of this deal for AA is about keep their large corporate clients happy that have large offices in NY.

JFK European flights need both the corporate travel and European tourism (both inbound/outbound) to come back to be successful. Without that, the only demand we have are the VFR stuff, which can only sustain so many flights.

Of course, if corporations continue to move offices to NJ and westchester and leave Manhattan office buildings mostly empty, all that LGA slots mean nothing. That's something we won't know for a couple of years.
 
USAirALB
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:30 pm

The BOS adds are quite interesting. I think that ILM may have been flown before on US, and I think CMH was also done once upon a time on AA and US. All that's really missing is a resumption of SFO (unlikely).

What is the status of SEA-JFK? I thought it was one of the routes that was discontinued to runway construction at JFK that was planned to come back and never did. Given the increased focus (somewhat) at JFK, and seeing how AS will now be in OW, any chance that the route makes a return?
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AAtakeMeAway
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:16 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
ABEguy wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Great to see. There goes the narrative that a certain poster was pushing that AA would basicly just operate hub flights and long haul from NYC.


Unfortunately, other than the Colombia, Chile, SNA, UVF/PLS adds, these are all Eagle.


BOS-JAC probably will be 1-2 weekly A319 or A320. Its almost 2000 statute miles.


LAA A319 seems to be AA's preferred equipment into JAC - never seem a 320 scheduled FWIW.
 
descl
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:28 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
AA added new flights

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

Domestic
BOS Asheville, North Carolina (AVL) June 5 – Nov. 6
BOS Columbus, Ohio (CMH) Aug. 17, year-round
BOS Jackson Hole, Wyoming (JAC) June 5 – Sept. 4
BOS Traverse City, Michigan (TVC) June 5 – Sept. 6
BOS Wilmington, North Carolina (ILM) June 5 – Aug. 14
JFK Orange County, California (SNA) June 2, year-round
LGA Kansas City, Missouri (MCI) Sept. 8, year-round
LGA Key West, Florida (EYW) June 5 – Sept. 4
LGA Myrtle Beach, South Carolina (MYR) June 3 – Sept. 7
LGA Pensacola, Florida (PNS) June 3 – Sept. 7
LGA Rapid City, South Dakota (RAP) June 5 – Sept. 4
LGA Savannah, Georgia (SAV) June 3 – Sept. 7

International
American will launch three new daily routes from JFK to Colombia – Cali (CLO), Bogota (BOG) and Medellin (MDE) – and will begin flying three times per week to Santiago, Chile (SCL) from JFK on a Boeing 777-200, until flights begin operating daily in November. Sun-seeking customers can also look forward to new Saturday service from JFK to the soothing waves in St. Lucia (UVF) and the beautiful beaches in Turks and Caicos (PLS) beginning on June 5, complementing JetBlue’s existing service..

Im a bit surpised with the new JFK-SCL, considering current low demand on long haul international markets.
On the other hand I also see they are restarting DFW-SCL end of march, and LA adding a 2nd daily frecuency on SCL-MIA from april (more capacity than pre-covid months).
Maybe this extra capacity is related to the fast vaccination programme that is currently ongoing in Chile, where herd inmunity is expected by end of June...
 
jmc1975
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:30 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
ABEguy wrote:

Unfortunately, other than the Colombia, Chile, SNA, UVF/PLS adds, these are all Eagle.


BOS-JAC probably will be 1-2 weekly A319 or A320. Its almost 2000 statute miles.


LAA A319 seems to be AA's preferred equipment into JAC - never seem a 320 scheduled FWIW.

An A320 would be subject to a massive payload hit departing from JAC. It would likely have to fly without pax.
.......
 
aaway
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:40 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
FSDan wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Also JFK-SNA will be a 3-class A321T.


That's a cool and creative use of the A321T fleet in my opinion. I haven't seen schedule details, but hopefully it will be more than just once daily (even 2-3 would be great).

I'm guessing this will be the first transcon A321 service ever from SNA, uniquely made possible by the light configuration of the A321T.


It makes a lot of sense to put the 321T on JFK-SNA if you're going to operate SNA nonstop from JFK. Unfortunately, SNA to/from NY Area has never quite worked out except for UA (which inherited the route from CO, which, at one time was 3 x daily, all on 737-700s to/from EWR). It is a high-yielding business route (plenty of corp traffic headed to the area SNA serves (Anaheim, Costa Mesa, Irvine, etc...) and a great alternative to LAX (and with no more service to LGB from JFK) less dilution, but its success, particularly on a plane like that, with 10 First, 20 Business, and 70 Economy Class seats, will depend on a rebound in business traffic. That is likely quite a bit far off. DL tried JFK-SNA and dropped it quickly. AA flew it with a 757 (wrong plane, wrong time) in the 2000s. Time will tell.


Since JFK-SNA is in conjunction with the NEA, there should be some appeal for those customers B6 left behind with its LGB withdrawal.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
11C
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:41 pm

jmc1975 wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
AAtakeMeAway wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:

BOS-JAC probably will be 1-2 weekly A319 or A320. Its almost 2000 statute miles.


LAA A319 seems to be AA's preferred equipment into JAC - never seem a 320 scheduled FWIW.

An A320 would be subject to a massive payload hit departing from JAC. It would likely have to fly without pax.

At least the skis could get home.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:55 pm

aaway wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
FSDan wrote:

That's a cool and creative use of the A321T fleet in my opinion. I haven't seen schedule details, but hopefully it will be more than just once daily (even 2-3 would be great).

I'm guessing this will be the first transcon A321 service ever from SNA, uniquely made possible by the light configuration of the A321T.


It makes a lot of sense to put the 321T on JFK-SNA if you're going to operate SNA nonstop from JFK. Unfortunately, SNA to/from NY Area has never quite worked out except for UA (which inherited the route from CO, which, at one time was 3 x daily, all on 737-700s to/from EWR). It is a high-yielding business route (plenty of corp traffic headed to the area SNA serves (Anaheim, Costa Mesa, Irvine, etc...) and a great alternative to LAX (and with no more service to LGB from JFK) less dilution, but its success, particularly on a plane like that, with 10 First, 20 Business, and 70 Economy Class seats, will depend on a rebound in business traffic. That is likely quite a bit far off. DL tried JFK-SNA and dropped it quickly. AA flew it with a 757 (wrong plane, wrong time) in the 2000s. Time will tell.


Since JFK-SNA is in conjunction with the NEA, there should be some appeal for those customers B6 left behind with its LGB withdrawal.


Yes, which is what I said above. "a great alternative to LAX (and with no more service to LGB from JFK)'
 
PSA727
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:55 am

tphuang wrote:


The airlines can't both add more flights while giving up 7 slots. Of course, JetBlue management can totally be lying or situations could change (like with the pilots voting down LOA). If we base it just on what they are saying internally, AA will have much fewer flights. We will see. I could be totally wrong, but my views are not based on any malicious intention toward AA. In fact, I have flown more in the past 5 years on AA than B6.


But the memo did not say AA was adding more flights (as in a net increase) at JFK. It said AA was going to add more widebody intl flights. You will see more 40/50-seat regional flights go bye-bye at JFK than you will see in more 787/777 flights coming online. Plus, if AA wants to add more intl flights after 9pm, I don't think it will have a problem in obtaining the slots necessary for those flights.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:17 pm

Is the new BOS-LHR route at risk in light of (a) expected weak traffic this summer and (b) the announcement made yesterday by UA?
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ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:12 pm

PSA727 wrote:
tphuang wrote:


The airlines can't both add more flights while giving up 7 slots. Of course, JetBlue management can totally be lying or situations could change (like with the pilots voting down LOA). If we base it just on what they are saying internally, AA will have much fewer flights. We will see. I could be totally wrong, but my views are not based on any malicious intention toward AA. In fact, I have flown more in the past 5 years on AA than B6.


But the memo did not say AA was adding more flights (as in a net increase) at JFK. It said AA was going to add more widebody intl flights. You will see more 40/50-seat regional flights go bye-bye at JFK than you will see in more 787/777 flights coming online. Plus, if AA wants to add more intl flights after 9pm, I don't think it will have a problem in obtaining the slots necessary for those flights.


You're not going to see much in the way of 787 service at JFK for some time. The wide body additions at JFK (ATH, TLV, GIG which is just a resumption, SCL) plus all the existing flights that have been suspended since the pandemic are all 77W/772 and it will stay that way for some time. When AA up gauged JFK-MAD and JFK-CDG to the 772 in March 2019, the last two long haul routes flown with the 767 it reported the JFK operation turned profitable, with a consistent product, good cargo capacity, better operational reliability, and streamlined ops. JFK is not a 787 crew or maintenance base now and so any service to Europe or Latin America on the 787 (or Asia for that matter) would require a flight from another AA hub. Not very efficient and easily worked in.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:50 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Im a bit surpised with the new JFK-SCL, considering current low demand on long haul international markets.
On the other hand I also see they are restarting DFW-SCL end of march, and LA adding a 2nd daily frecuency on SCL-MIA from april (more capacity than pre-covid months).
Maybe this extra capacity is related to the fast vaccination programme that is currently ongoing in Chile, where herd inmunity is expected by end of June...


I'm pretty sure AA already restarted DFW-SCL (though currently on the 789 instead of 77E).

AA operated nonstop JFK to GIG/EZE since the mid 2000s. SCL was a major hole in its network from JFK. Santiago as a city has been on a roll the past couple years, and the country has weathered the crisis better than its neighbors. Lots of new airlines out of there the past couple months, like KLM. SCL is also better to connect to places like COR/USH/MVD, since EZE/AEP are separate airports.

I'm also surprised they are not starting 2x GRU tbh.
 
maverick4002
Posts: 400
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:44 pm

Is AA basing the MAX at JFK now? AA1675 today, JFK to SJO is a MAX 8. I thought for now those only start or end their flights in Miami?
 
anymaninfc
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 7:13 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:50 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
Is AA basing the MAX at JFK now? AA1675 today, JFK to SJO is a MAX 8. I thought for now those only start or end their flights in Miami?


The routing of the acft used for JFK-SJO, originates in MIA. To my limited knowledge, all MAX 8 aircraft are still based in MIA.
 
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ryanflyer
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:26 pm

Does anyone know if the DCA-JFK flight is set to come back post covid? It was a route I frequented and have stopped flying AA Tcons due to the fact I would rather not transfer airports.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1754
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:27 pm

ryanflyer wrote:
Does anyone know if the DCA-JFK flight is set to come back post covid? It was a route I frequented and have stopped flying AA Tcons due to the fact I would rather not transfer airports.


There is plenty of flights on DCA-EWR/LGA.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:43 pm

ryanflyer wrote:
Does anyone know if the DCA-JFK flight is set to come back post covid? It was a route I frequented and have stopped flying AA Tcons due to the fact I would rather not transfer airports.


It's tentatively set to resume on May 6 which may change when the May schedule rolls out.

Currently showing 3x daily with 2x A319s 1x E-175.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7228
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:48 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
ryanflyer wrote:
Does anyone know if the DCA-JFK flight is set to come back post covid? It was a route I frequented and have stopped flying AA Tcons due to the fact I would rather not transfer airports.


There is plenty of flights on DCA-EWR/LGA.


As mentioned, the OP wanted DCA-JFK to connect to the transcons without switching airports.

There really aren't many DCA-EWR flights. I can't recall AA ever flying it; it was United (and Continental before that) only. With DCA being slot limited and EWR historically being slot limited, it would be a waste of a slot. For an O&D traveler, the Regional takes 3 hours from Union Station to Newark/Penn; Acela does it in 2h30. Amtrak also gives you the flexibility of getting off at MetroPark if your destination is south of Newark.

As for DCA-JFK, it depends. If you're in DCA wanting to go to Latin and the Caribbean, AA can easily flow you over Charlotte or Miami. If you want to go out west, you can go over Chicago, Dallas, Charlotte. Yes, it's annoying that you can't get on the premium transcons, but as traffic returns, the preference will be to take local traffic and maximize yield on those flights.

The one thing that might help DCA-JFK coming back is to feed the new long-hauls out of JFK to Europe. That being said, that traffic can also flow over Philadelphia, which right now is down to 2x/day and is a flight that exists only for flow traffic - and honestly, there isn't a ton of need for it since most of the markets going North and East from PHL already have a nonstop to DCA in normal times. Then, the question would be do you want DCA traffic to flow over PHL or JFK - based on passenger volume and higher yields in the local NYC market, I think they'd rather flow that over PHL. Keep in mind too with DC that BA has service on IAD-LHR and is a joint venture flight with AA - it very well could be that they try to have people take that and connect over Heathrow.
 
phllax
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:12 pm

USAirALB wrote:
The BOS adds are quite interesting. I think that ILM may have been flown before on US, and I think CMH was also done once upon a time on AA and US. All that's really missing is a resumption of SFO (unlikely).


BOS-CMH is both a legacy US and HP from their hub days. LGA to both MYR and MCI are both legacy US routes.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:05 pm

phllax wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
The BOS adds are quite interesting. I think that ILM may have been flown before on US, and I think CMH was also done once upon a time on AA and US. All that's really missing is a resumption of SFO (unlikely).


BOS-CMH is both a legacy US and HP from their hub days. LGA to both MYR and MCI are both legacy US routes.


AA also ran it at one point in the early 2000s.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
USAirALB
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:56 pm

Looks like AA added CLT-FCA over the weekend. Summer seasonal, Saturday-only.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 763ER, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
nc3rd
Posts: 122
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:02 pm

USAirALB wrote:
The BOS adds are quite interesting. I think that ILM may have been flown before on US, and I think CMH was also done once upon a time on AA and US. All that's really missing is a resumption of SFO (unlikely).

USAir or USAir Express never did Boston-ILM. Used to do BOS-MYR though.
The views written above are mine and mine alone and do not represent any official information from any airline or company
 
x1234
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:06 pm

Remember folks, Chile is the ONLY Latin American country in the US VISA Waiver program in addition some EU territories in the Carribean and French Guiana. I wonder since French Guiana folks carry full EU passports and therefore eligible for the VWP AA should start MIA-CAY also. There's lots of VFR and shopping traffic between Chile & the USA.
 
Summa767
Posts: 1848
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:14 pm

~The daily flights between JFK and the 3 Colombian destinations are now programmed from 6 May (though only showing full fares for now).
The 3 flights will depart JFK between 6.30 pm and 7.30 pm, arriving in Bogotá, Medellin and Cali between 11 pm and midnight. Departing back to JFK between midnight and 1 am, with arrival between 6.30 am and 7.30 am.

A good use of the A319s, with these night and red eye segments that can be done after a full day of hops.

SCL is also on the system on the 3 days a week scheduled to operate. Departing JFK at 8pm, with early morning arrival in SCL and return at 9.40 pm with arrival in JFL at 8.20 am.
 
CanadianRedneck
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:24 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:29 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Looks like AA added CLT-FCA over the weekend. Summer seasonal, Saturday-only.


Wasn’t expecting this, is it on a 175? COS might follow shortly....
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7228
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:40 pm

CanadianRedneck wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Looks like AA added CLT-FCA over the weekend. Summer seasonal, Saturday-only.


Wasn’t expecting this, is it on a 175? COS might follow shortly....


A319. At over 1900 miles, it's out of the range of the 175.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4201
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:02 pm

Summa767 wrote:
~The daily flights between JFK and the 3 Colombian destinations are now programmed from 6 May (though only showing full fares for now).
The 3 flights will depart JFK between 6.30 pm and 7.30 pm, arriving in Bogotá, Medellin and Cali between 11 pm and midnight. Departing back to JFK between midnight and 1 am, with arrival between 6.30 am and 7.30 am.

A good use of the A319s, with these night and red eye segments that can be done after a full day of hops.

SCL is also on the system on the 3 days a week scheduled to operate. Departing JFK at 8pm, with early morning arrival in SCL and return at 9.40 pm with arrival in JFL at 8.20 am.


Indeed good use of the A319 frames. I wonder where they will rotate in from, since there are 3 total. PHX? CLT? MIA?

The JFK-SCL-JFK schedule is similar to the LATAM service (LA 533/532).
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2517
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:11 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Summa767 wrote:
~The daily flights between JFK and the 3 Colombian destinations are now programmed from 6 May (though only showing full fares for now).
The 3 flights will depart JFK between 6.30 pm and 7.30 pm, arriving in Bogotá, Medellin and Cali between 11 pm and midnight. Departing back to JFK between midnight and 1 am, with arrival between 6.30 am and 7.30 am.

A good use of the A319s, with these night and red eye segments that can be done after a full day of hops.

SCL is also on the system on the 3 days a week scheduled to operate. Departing JFK at 8pm, with early morning arrival in SCL and return at 9.40 pm with arrival in JFL at 8.20 am.


Indeed good use of the A319 frames. I wonder where they will rotate in from, since there are 3 total. PHX? CLT? MIA?

The JFK-SCL-JFK schedule is similar to the LATAM service (LA 533/532).

Given that they will likely be operated by L-AA Enhanced A319s (EOW, AVOD, Winglets), I would say through MIA.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 763ER, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
asuflyer
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:49 pm

Does anyone know why AA2753 CLT-BZE diverted to CUN twice today?
 
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cathay747
Posts: 1551
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:32 pm

asuflyer wrote:
Does anyone know why AA2753 CLT-BZE diverted to CUN twice today?


According to FLIFO...wow, never seen this...it diverted to CUN due to weather at BZE being below minimums, then after a wait, they departed CUN to continue, but then did an air-return-to-field back to CUN, where it then states "RON DUE TO BZE WX BELOW MINS" and it departed at 1016 this morning, off the field at 1035 with ETA to BZE of 1020. Jeez!!

Now this makes me wonder...they didn't know BZE was below mins. before departing CLT??? And then again, they didn't know it STILL was below mins. before departing CUN??? WTH???
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
joeblow10
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:53 pm

cathay747 wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
Does anyone know why AA2753 CLT-BZE diverted to CUN twice today?


According to FLIFO...wow, never seen this...it diverted to CUN due to weather at BZE being below minimums, then after a wait, they departed CUN to continue, but then did an air-return-to-field back to CUN, where it then states "RON DUE TO BZE WX BELOW MINS" and it departed at 1016 this morning, off the field at 1035 with ETA to BZE of 1020. Jeez!!

Now this makes me wonder...they didn't know BZE was below mins. before departing CLT??? And then again, they didn't know it STILL was below mins. before departing CUN??? WTH???


Well... it’s entirely reasonable they wouldn’t have known upon leaving CLT, the weather can change quite a bit over the course of a few hours. As for not knowing when they left CUN - you can see on flight aware they tried to shoot an approach or two at BZE but couldn’t make it in... so they went back. Nothing that out of the ordinary - just unfortunate luck
 
Wneast
Posts: 520
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:50 am

Could American try anything else from geg maybe a charlotte at least seasonal ?
 
dcajet
Posts: 4866
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:12 am

descl wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
AA added new flights

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

Domestic
BOS Asheville, North Carolina (AVL) June 5 – Nov. 6
BOS Columbus, Ohio (CMH) Aug. 17, year-round
BOS Jackson Hole, Wyoming (JAC) June 5 – Sept. 4
BOS Traverse City, Michigan (TVC) June 5 – Sept. 6
BOS Wilmington, North Carolina (ILM) June 5 – Aug. 14
JFK Orange County, California (SNA) June 2, year-round
LGA Kansas City, Missouri (MCI) Sept. 8, year-round
LGA Key West, Florida (EYW) June 5 – Sept. 4
LGA Myrtle Beach, South Carolina (MYR) June 3 – Sept. 7
LGA Pensacola, Florida (PNS) June 3 – Sept. 7
LGA Rapid City, South Dakota (RAP) June 5 – Sept. 4
LGA Savannah, Georgia (SAV) June 3 – Sept. 7

International
American will launch three new daily routes from JFK to Colombia – Cali (CLO), Bogota (BOG) and Medellin (MDE) – and will begin flying three times per week to Santiago, Chile (SCL) from JFK on a Boeing 777-200, until flights begin operating daily in November. Sun-seeking customers can also look forward to new Saturday service from JFK to the soothing waves in St. Lucia (UVF) and the beautiful beaches in Turks and Caicos (PLS) beginning on June 5, complementing JetBlue’s existing service..

Im a bit surpised with the new JFK-SCL, considering current low demand on long haul international markets.
On the other hand I also see they are restarting DFW-SCL end of march, and LA adding a 2nd daily frecuency on SCL-MIA from april (more capacity than pre-covid months).
Maybe this extra capacity is related to the fast vaccination programme that is currently ongoing in Chile, where herd inmunity is expected by end of June...


Post-divorce, AA is not about to leave the SCL-NYC market to LATAM alone, particularly at a time when they have the fleet bandwidth. Incidentally the flight starts at 3x w in May, goes up to 4x w in October and then goes daily in November. Of course, that is the plan, and it can change more than once moving forward. November is an eternity away for airlines' schedulers.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 3573
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:47 pm

Somewhat surprising, AA will operate the 787-9 instead of the 787-8 on DFW-LIM starting in mid-March. Quite an upgrade compared to the 757-200 a year ago.

Wneast wrote:
Could American try anything else from geg maybe a charlotte at least seasonal ?


AA could probably add ORD-GEG or LAX-GEG given their recent leisure expansion at LAX.
 
MLIAA
Posts: 208
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:08 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:16 pm

In an internal email today, AA announced:

New routes from ORD to BIL, ACK, SBA, GEG, & FAT.

Resumption of ORD to ONT, AVL, and ECP.

Extension of ORD to EYW, SRQ, and HRL.

Does anyone have types/operators and frequency for these?
A319 A320 A321 A332 B712 B722 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B763 B764 B772 B788 B789 MD80 S340 E140 E145 E170 E175 E195 CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9
 
AC4500
Posts: 486
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:39 pm

Wneast wrote:
Could American try anything else from geg maybe a charlotte at least seasonal ?

It looks like you're in luck... :-)

ORD-GEG on AA, per the post above^^^
 
AC4500
Posts: 486
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:41 pm

ORD-BIL is long overdue. I'm surprised that UA isn't flying that route...
 
Wneast
Posts: 520
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:41 pm

AC4500 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Could American try anything else from geg maybe a charlotte at least seasonal ?

It looks like you're in luck... :-)

ORD-GEG on AA, per the post above^^^

I know that was fast !! Lol
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:49 pm

MLIAA wrote:
In an internal email today, AA announced:

New routes from ORD to BIL, ACK, SBA, GEG, & FAT.

Resumption of ORD to ONT, AVL, and ECP.

Extension of ORD to EYW, SRQ, and HRL.

Does anyone have types/operators and frequency for these?


Maybe UA will finally resume FAT and start SBA, as FAT was suspended due to COVID and SBA never got started due to COVID. And GEG I believe was suspended too.
 
QXorVX
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:45 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:32 am

AC4500 wrote:
ORD-BIL is long overdue. I'm surprised that UA isn't flying that route...


UA previously operated this as a summer seasonal, looks like this year they are not. It will be nice to see some additional eastward connections offered other than DL through MSP. I think AS/AA will have a pretty good chance of gaining some extra traction with frequent travelers in Montana offering lots of options now east, west, and south.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6494
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:27 am

Ishrion wrote:
Somewhat surprising, AA will operate the 787-9 instead of the 787-8 on DFW-LIM starting in mid-March. Quite an upgrade compared to the 757-200 a year ago.

Wneast wrote:
Could American try anything else from geg maybe a charlotte at least seasonal ?


AA could probably add ORD-GEG or LAX-GEG given their recent leisure expansion at LAX.


It’s an even bigger upgrade from AA having discontinued DFW-LIM for a period of years.

Looks like GEG is the new DTW on A.net lately. :)

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