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PHLspecial
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:53 pm

cathay747 wrote:
travaz wrote:
Around 3.5 Million people in AZ have been vaccinated or had Covid. Nearly 50% of the states population. The numbers have steadily been declining over the last few weeks of new cases. Hospitalizations are currently only 12% of all hospital beds. Also Arizona is fully open for business. Phoenix was never going anywhere. During the cut backs PHX didn't lose nearly the amount of flights that PHL and ORD did. Repeat PHX is only going to grow. This whole PHX is going to die is very tiring.


Amen, well said, especially the last sentence. Always has to be somebody to dredge that up about PHX (going to die, be dehubbed, whatever)...give it a rest folks.

Alright time to start the PH...L is dieing threads.
 
PSA727
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:07 am

ahj2000 wrote:

Just from limited personal experience, and again loads ≠ yields, but CLT-EU does very well in those leisure/cruise markets. I’ve done FCO a bit and it seems to go out quite full in the summer (once empty on the way there, but the return was full). Even back in the US days (I did it one time in 2012(?))


And that's kind of my point. If AA can't come close to filling a widebody on a CLT-Europe flight, then it should not be flying that route. CLT works off of volume. It's why you see a lot of 321s parked at gates there. And it has the lowest costs in AA's hub network for connecting passengers. But its O&D numbers aren't the best compared to the others. So, when it comes to the peak demand period (late spring through the summer) to/from Europe, CLT has relevance. Mainly for service to the select European cities that have very high demand from all parts of the U.S., and most of those passengers are going to have to connect somewhere en route. But CLT has only seen three routes that have remained year-round constants for basically the past three decades: London, Frankfurt, and Munich (first with LH, now with both). All the others are peak seasonal flights. And not all have worked out, either. There was one year almost a decade ago when US tried CLT to MAN/BRU/LIS (IIRC). Those flights didn't come back for a second year. But CLT-DUB/FCO/CDG/BCN? Yeah, they can make those routes work in the peak months.
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ahj2000
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:43 am

CLT-ONT to begin May 6. Ends mid-August, but I could see this one lasting. AA, from what I remember, has the highest share of the major carriers at ONT. Perhaps their share there will help boost the route.
-Andrés Juánez
 
chonetsao
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:56 am

My take on CLT is that:
1, Its international arrival area is one of the worst I have been in USA. Nearby RDU is much much better.
2, CLT has its potential and need to be fully realised
3, CLT is great for summer TATL routes, but sucks big time in winter (pax number wise)
4, CLT is great in cost but it can never be NYC, ORD, DFW, MIA nor LAX. However it remains a great asset for AA's network.

I think in the end, CLT and PHL are summer TATL hot spots. The long haul fleet (B788/B772) could be based in CLT/PHL in summer to do the TATL peak time flying. And in winter time, the fleet needs to be moved to DFW/MIA to do Latin American flying. It is unfortunate both hubs will have the seasonality issues unless some part of the economy activities has a fundamental change that could promote all year round flying to Europe (I am thinking in terms of CLT-MUC and RDU-LHR alike routes).

Thus I don't see any major changes for AA's TATL network from both PHL and CLT in years ahead. And I expect AA to be less adventurous in the foreseeable future in both PHL and CLT.
 
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cathay747
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:51 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
travaz wrote:
Around 3.5 Million people in AZ have been vaccinated or had Covid. Nearly 50% of the states population. The numbers have steadily been declining over the last few weeks of new cases. Hospitalizations are currently only 12% of all hospital beds. Also Arizona is fully open for business. Phoenix was never going anywhere. During the cut backs PHX didn't lose nearly the amount of flights that PHL and ORD did. Repeat PHX is only going to grow. This whole PHX is going to die is very tiring.


Amen, well said, especially the last sentence. Always has to be somebody to dredge that up about PHX (going to die, be dehubbed, whatever)...give it a rest folks.

Alright time to start the PH...L is dieing threads.


LOL yeah, and AA in general.
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ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:14 pm

chonetsao wrote:
My take on CLT is that:
1, Its international arrival area is one of the worst I have been in USA. Nearby RDU is much much better.
2, CLT has its potential and need to be fully realised
3, CLT is great for summer TATL routes, but sucks big time in winter (pax number wise)
4, CLT is great in cost but it can never be NYC, ORD, DFW, MIA nor LAX. However it remains a great asset for AA's network.

I think in the end, CLT and PHL are summer TATL hot spots. The long haul fleet (B788/B772) could be based in CLT/PHL in summer to do the TATL peak time flying. And in winter time, the fleet needs to be moved to DFW/MIA to do Latin American flying. It is unfortunate both hubs will have the seasonality issues unless some part of the economy activities has a fundamental change that could promote all year round flying to Europe (I am thinking in terms of CLT-MUC and RDU-LHR alike routes).

Thus I don't see any major changes for AA's TATL network from both PHL and CLT in years ahead. And I expect AA to be less adventurous in the foreseeable future in both PHL and CLT.


Comparing RDU to CLT is like comparing apples to oranges. RDU is a much smaller airport, handles up to 2 long haul flights a day (AA from LHR and DL from CDG, when they are operating) and is a smaller more compact facility. CLT thrives as a hub because it generates enough O&D demand to balance the fact that connections are offered at a much lower cost to AA than at other facilities. The land, the leases, all that is way cheaper in CLT. It is unique that a mid-sized city has such a large hub that thrives. Before COVID, the TATL expansion footprint at CLT was focused on leisure markets, not business, except for the LHR, MUC, and FRA routes, which are important business markets and for MUC/FRA notably, key for cargo. The rest of the TATL network at CLT duplicated PHL (FCO, CDG, MAD) and likely eroded some margins at MIA too. Not sure what the point of comparing CLT to NYC, ORD, DFW, MIA, etc...they are all different markets and serve different purposes in the network entirely. TATL is not likely to recover until Spring/Summer 2022 at this point and that is an eternity away in the airline business. Some of the lost CLT routes could come back. Some are likely gone for good. The 788s were already moving into PHL before COVID to replace the 767-300ERs which were not reliable, with poor dispatch rates, and ancient cabins (though comfortable). The 788 will continue to be the backbone of what is left of the TATL network in PHL, which will be core business/leisure going forward with a bit more shift to JFK. 777s are already at CLT for LHR and more will follow as traffic rebounds.
 
Aeroflot001
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Re: AA 777s added to MIA domestic schedule for May

Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:15 pm

Mom flew back from SJU to MIA yesterday on a 772 in Y+ it was full!
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: AA 777s added to MIA domestic schedule for May

Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:11 pm

Does AA treat MIA-LAX the same as JFK-LAX in Business and First - pillows, blanket, enhanced menu and food? Or is it just domestic F service for the J & F cabins?
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: AA 777s added to MIA domestic schedule for May

Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:54 am

If its a three-class 77W, yes you get the full Flagship service.
 
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N62NA
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Re: AA 777s added to MIA domestic schedule for May

Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:26 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Does AA treat MIA-LAX the same as JFK-LAX in Business and First - pillows, blanket, enhanced menu and food? Or is it just domestic F service for the J & F cabins?



We actually do get served a meal on the 772 and the 77W on MIA-LAX-MIA. One of the very few domestic routes AA is currently serving meals on.Blankets and pillows too.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: AA 777s added to MIA domestic schedule for May

Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:55 am

usairways85 wrote:
aerace wrote:
772 is running 1x PHL-MIA and MIA-PHL in April as well which I think is the first time AA is deploying this aircraft to PHL.

It actually starts in 2 weeks, 3/27. Appears to run some type of MIA-PHL-LHR-PHL-MIA rotation


With the removal of the A330s, is LHR, an all 777 operation at this point? Thanks in advance for a response if you do know, and if you don't thanks anyway for enlightening how this 777 is being routed.
 
Brickell305
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Re: AA 777s added to MIA domestic schedule for May

Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:20 am

Rajahdhani wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
aerace wrote:
772 is running 1x PHL-MIA and MIA-PHL in April as well which I think is the first time AA is deploying this aircraft to PHL.

It actually starts in 2 weeks, 3/27. Appears to run some type of MIA-PHL-LHR-PHL-MIA rotation


With the removal of the A330s, is LHR, an all 777 operation at this point? Thanks in advance for a response if you do know, and if you don't thanks anyway for enlightening how this 777 is being routed.

No it's not. ORD-LHR is a 787.
 
Ishrion
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Re: AA 777s added to MIA domestic schedule for May

Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:49 am

Brickell305 wrote:
Rajahdhani wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
It actually starts in 2 weeks, 3/27. Appears to run some type of MIA-PHL-LHR-PHL-MIA rotation


With the removal of the A330s, is LHR, an all 777 operation at this point? Thanks in advance for a response if you do know, and if you don't thanks anyway for enlightening how this 777 is being routed.

No it's not. ORD-LHR is a 787.


From March 27 ORD-LHR swaps to the 772. From then, all LHR flights should be on the 777.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:21 pm

Potential new AA routes with the Small Community Air Service Development Program: https://www.regulations.gov/docket/DOT-OST-2020-023

- Phoenix to Helena (HLN), McAllen (MFE)
- Dallas/Fort Worth to Green Bay (GRB), Great Falls (GTF), Appleton (ATW), Charleston West Virginia (CRW - Alternate), Medford (MFR)
- Chicago to Daytona Beach (DAB), Lynchburg (LYH)
- Washington (DCA) to Champaign/Urbana (CMI), Daytona Beach (DAB), Baton Rouge (BTR)
- Charlotte to Lakeland (LAL)
 
travaz
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:57 pm

Do you have link? The above seems to be bad.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:02 pm

travaz wrote:
Do you have link? The above seems to be bad.


Sorry, not sure what happened to that one.

https://www.regulations.gov/docket/DOT-OST-2020-0231
 
OKCDCA
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:19 pm

Going through DFW today I noticed C34-39 (I think) are being demolished. Has this been in the works or was this something that came up due to reduced flights because of COVID? Will AA be taking anymore gates in E to compensate? If there are anymore...
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:19 am

Ishrion wrote:
Potential new AA routes with the Small Community Air Service Development Program: https://www.regulations.gov/docket/DOT-OST-2020-023

- Phoenix to Helena (HLN), McAllen (MFE)
- Dallas/Fort Worth to Green Bay (GRB), Great Falls (GTF), Appleton (ATW), Charleston West Virginia (CRW - Alternate), Medford (MFR)
- Chicago to Daytona Beach (DAB), Lynchburg (LYH)
- Washington (DCA) to Champaign/Urbana (CMI), Daytona Beach (DAB), Baton Rouge (BTR)
- Charlotte to Lakeland (LAL)


Phoenix was listed as alternative if they are unable to get Dallas, the Phoenix area is already served by G4 to AZA, I think PHX has a better chance than DFW in this instance only.
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:04 am

Ishrion wrote:
Potential new AA routes with the Small Community Air Service Development Program: https://www.regulations.gov/docket/DOT-OST-2020-023

- Phoenix to Helena (HLN), McAllen (MFE)
- Dallas/Fort Worth to Green Bay (GRB), Great Falls (GTF), Appleton (ATW), Charleston West Virginia (CRW - Alternate), Medford (MFR)
- Chicago to Daytona Beach (DAB), Lynchburg (LYH)
- Washington (DCA) to Champaign/Urbana (CMI), Daytona Beach (DAB), Baton Rouge (BTR)
- Charlotte to Lakeland (LAL)


Sorry Ishrion, was referring to GTF for DFW service from my previous post
 
sagechan
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:15 am

Ishrion wrote:
Potential new AA routes with the Small Community Air Service Development Program: https://www.regulations.gov/docket/DOT-OST-2020-023

- Phoenix to Helena (HLN), McAllen (MFE)
- Dallas/Fort Worth to Green Bay (GRB), Great Falls (GTF), Appleton (ATW), Charleston West Virginia (CRW - Alternate), Medford (MFR)
- Chicago to Daytona Beach (DAB), Lynchburg (LYH)
- Washington (DCA) to Champaign/Urbana (CMI), Daytona Beach (DAB), Baton Rouge (BTR)
- Charlotte to Lakeland (LAL)


Read the CRW one, their first choice is a ULCC to one of the NYC airports, which as far as I can tell would be the smallest market that's not a real leisure destination for New Yorkers on any of the ULCCs or JetBlue. I figure the DFW route seems more likely as the alternative in that case. Nice route for a DFW based 170!
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Brandon757
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:55 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
Going through DFW today I noticed C34-39 (I think) are being demolished. Has this been in the works or was this something that came up due to reduced flights because of COVID? Will AA be taking anymore gates in E to compensate? If there are anymore...

I wonder if this is in the plans for the new renovation for C?
 
TXRoadMan
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:35 pm

OKCDCA wrote:
Going through DFW today I noticed C34-39 (I think) are being demolished. Has this been in the works or was this something that came up due to reduced flights because of COVID? Will AA be taking anymore gates in E to compensate? If there are anymore...

They're going to rebuild the High-C 'trailer park' to a proper structure. My guess is it will fit-/blend-in with the recent announcement that they are going to TRIP the rest of C.

ETA: I missed the very last post, but the High-C raze and rebuild was publicly announced before the TRIP of the rest of C was. It's very logical (IMHO) to assume that they are using the original plans for the TRIP of C and the new building was designed to accommodate.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:09 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Potential new AA routes with the Small Community Air Service Development Program:

- Phoenix to Helena (HLN), McAllen (MFE)
- Dallas/Fort Worth to Green Bay (GRB), Great Falls (GTF), Appleton (ATW), Charleston West Virginia (CRW - Alternate), Medford (MFR)
- Chicago to Daytona Beach (DAB), Lynchburg (LYH)
- Washington (DCA) to Champaign/Urbana (CMI), Daytona Beach (DAB), Baton Rouge (BTR)
- Charlotte to Lakeland (LAL)


Day 2 of published applications:

- Charlotte to St. Augustine (UST), State College (SCE), Valdosta (VLD), New Haven (HVN - Restoration)
- Dallas/Fort Worth to Redmond (RDM), Jacksonville, NC (OAJ), Toledo (TOL), Topeka (FOE)
- Chicago to New Haven (HVN)
- Washington D.C. to New Haven (HVN), Springfield (SGF)
- Miami to Springfield (SGF - Alternate)
- Philadelphia to Springfield (SGF - Alternate)
- Boston to Wilmington (ILM - Increase to daily/year-round)
 
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DLHAM
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:15 pm

wenders825 wrote:
something like CLT-DUS/STR/HAM may be more likely to be on a 321XLR. but FRA and MUC will be staying. CLT is unique in how well it's able to serve those two cities for AA


While DUS and HAM could work from CLT with the XLR (I do not mention STR on purpose) I think that it would be smarter to serve those two from ORD or JFK, as the local traffic demand is MUCH higher here. In 2019 CLT had 9,6 passengers a day oneway from DUS and 7,5 from HAM, Chicago had 39,3 from DUS and 44,4 from HAM. (NYC-HAM: 155!).
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Chapmads
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:39 am

DLHAM wrote:
wenders825 wrote:
something like CLT-DUS/STR/HAM may be more likely to be on a 321XLR. but FRA and MUC will be staying. CLT is unique in how well it's able to serve those two cities for AA


While DUS and HAM could work from CLT with the XLR (I do not mention STR on purpose) I think that it would be smarter to serve those two from ORD or JFK, as the local traffic demand is MUCH higher here. In 2019 CLT had 9,6 passengers a day oneway from DUS and 7,5 from HAM, Chicago had 39,3 from DUS and 44,4 from HAM. (NYC-HAM: 155!).


Correct, if you were only filling the plane with O&D passengers. However, CLT exists for connecting traffic, and the hub in CLT is significantly larger than ORD and will pull passengers from all over the country.
 
jmc1975
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:06 am

Chapmads wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
wenders825 wrote:
something like CLT-DUS/STR/HAM may be more likely to be on a 321XLR. but FRA and MUC will be staying. CLT is unique in how well it's able to serve those two cities for AA


While DUS and HAM could work from CLT with the XLR (I do not mention STR on purpose) I think that it would be smarter to serve those two from ORD or JFK, as the local traffic demand is MUCH higher here. In 2019 CLT had 9,6 passengers a day oneway from DUS and 7,5 from HAM, Chicago had 39,3 from DUS and 44,4 from HAM. (NYC-HAM: 155!).

Correct, if you were only filling the plane with O&D passengers. However, CLT exists for connecting traffic, and the hub in CLT is significantly larger than ORD and will pull passengers from all over the country.

Perhaps PHL would be the smartest.
Last edited by jmc1975 on Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
.......
 
Runway765
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:13 am

Ishrion wrote:
Potential new AA routes with the Small Community Air Service Development Program: https://www.regulations.gov/docket/DOT-OST-2020-023

- Phoenix to Helena (HLN), McAllen (MFE)
- Dallas/Fort Worth to Green Bay (GRB), Great Falls (GTF), Appleton (ATW), Charleston West Virginia (CRW - Alternate), Medford (MFR)
- Chicago to Daytona Beach (DAB), Lynchburg (LYH)
- Washington (DCA) to Champaign/Urbana (CMI), Daytona Beach (DAB), Baton Rouge (BTR)
- Charlotte to Lakeland (LAL)


1. I’m surprised GRN/ATW aren’t linked to DFW already.

2. Why on earth does CMI need to be linked to DCA?
 
rjbesikof
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:39 am

I noticed that AA is really going to ramp up their Europe schedule effective next week on Sunday. The following will resume:

DFW-MAD/FCO
PHL-LHR/DUB
JFK-CDG
LAX-LHR
MIA-LHR/BCN

I know JFK-CDG could be because of both cargo and the B6 partnership. But some of the non LHR resumptions seem rather surprising especially since most of Europe except for Iceland is closed.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:58 am

rjbesikof wrote:
I noticed that AA is really going to ramp up their Europe schedule effective next week on Sunday. The following will resume:

DFW-MAD/FCO
PHL-LHR/DUB
JFK-CDG
LAX-LHR
MIA-LHR/BCN

I know JFK-CDG could be because of both cargo and the B6 partnership. But some of the non LHR resumptions seem rather surprising especially since most of Europe except for Iceland is closed.


Additionally, CLT-LHR increases from 3x weekly to daily, the new SEA-LHR launches 3x weekly, and JFK-MXP resumes next Friday,
 
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:27 am

DLHAM wrote:


While DUS and HAM could work from CLT with the XLR (I do not mention STR on purpose) I think that it would be smarter to serve those two from ORD or JFK, as the local traffic demand is MUCH higher here. In 2019 CLT had 9,6 passengers a day oneway from DUS and 7,5 from HAM, Chicago had 39,3 from DUS and 44,4 from HAM. (NYC-HAM: 155!).

When you say "could work" with the 321XLR from CLT... do you mean operationally, or financially? Because I think they would bleed cash. If AA decides to venture beyond FRA and MUC in Germany, then their focus needs to be on JFK. And the 321XLR is the right-size aircraft to develop those markets. JFK will attract O&D demand on both sides of the Atlatntic. CLT will not. PHL will not. And the more people you can fill a 150-seat plane with by simply flying people between Germany and NYC, the less reliant you are on connecting traffic. Moreover, the new alliance between AA and B6 allows for more connection opportunities at JFK than AA had in the past. I remember back in the pre-merger US days, it was reported that two-thirds of the (European-originating traffic IIRC) passengers it connected at PHL and CLT were only going to 6 or 7 airports. I believe they were (and these are not ranked by numbers) MIA, MCO, LGA, LAX, SFO, and maybe BOS and LAS.

And CLT is too far south for a lot of connections. Particularly from cities that have a lot of passengers going to Europe from the U.S., like Boston and NYC, even DC. They aren't going to be inclined to fly down to CLT to connect over to Europe. Moreover, how much demand is there from people south and southwest of CLT in going to DUS and HAM? However, I do agree with you about ORD. I believe ORD is the same distance to most European cities as they are from CLT. So, I think the 321XLR would work better out of ORD than CLT for TATL. And it could help AA compete against UA there without flooding the market with too much capicity.
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DLHAM
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:58 am

PSA727 wrote:
When you say "could work" with the 321XLR from CLT... do you mean operationally, or financially? Because I think they would bleed cash. If AA decides to venture beyond FRA and MUC in Germany, then their focus needs to be on JFK.
...
Moreover, how much demand is there from people south and southwest of CLT in going to DUS and HAM? However, I do agree with you about ORD. I believe ORD is the same distance to most European cities as they are from CLT.


I mean that there is a possibility that it could work, but it also could fail as O&D/local traffic is VERY low. Yes CLT is just a bit further than ORD, but should already be at the edge of the XLRs real world range in Winter.

I cannot talk about DUS, but HAM is very strong to the south and southeast. High volume of traffic to Florida, lots of it high yielding and strong volume of business traffic to Texas and also Georgia. One reason why Delta choose ATL-HAM over JFK-HAM when they relaunched Hamburg service in 1998 -- while there would have been no competition at NYC-HAM as well. But local traffic was/is much higher to ATL opposed to CLT.
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ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:50 am

DLHAM wrote:
wenders825 wrote:
something like CLT-DUS/STR/HAM may be more likely to be on a 321XLR. but FRA and MUC will be staying. CLT is unique in how well it's able to serve those two cities for AA


While DUS and HAM could work from CLT with the XLR (I do not mention STR on purpose) I think that it would be smarter to serve those two from ORD or JFK, as the local traffic demand is MUCH higher here. In 2019 CLT had 9,6 passengers a day oneway from DUS and 7,5 from HAM, Chicago had 39,3 from DUS and 44,4 from HAM. (NYC-HAM: 155!).


AA does not do well in Germany, and never has. The problem is point-of-sale from Germany. They've flown ORD-DUS in the past, when Air Berlin was still in business, and even with connectivity on the ORD and DUS end, they could not make it work. HAM has not worked out for UA at EWR (a route it inherited from CO) even with a big hub at EWR and being tightly connected with LH. I just don't see AA adding very much of anything to Germany out of JFK down the road, even with the 321XLR when it arrives on property.

One of AA's first routes to Europe from JFK in 1987 was to FRA (alongside ORY and ZRH and a short lived LYS). The FRA route was pulled in 1990 or 1991. AA also also not been able to make FRA work from MIA (it tried in the 2000s), and the PHL to FRA/MUC routes failed as well. DFW and CLT work because of (1) feed, and (2) cargo.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:56 am

Ishrion wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
I noticed that AA is really going to ramp up their Europe schedule effective next week on Sunday. The following will resume:

DFW-MAD/FCO
PHL-LHR/DUB
JFK-CDG
LAX-LHR
MIA-LHR/BCN

I know JFK-CDG could be because of both cargo and the B6 partnership. But some of the non LHR resumptions seem rather surprising especially since most of Europe except for Iceland is closed.


Additionally, CLT-LHR increases from 3x weekly to daily, the new SEA-LHR launches 3x weekly, and JFK-MXP resumes next Friday,


I don't see a lot of the FCO stuff coming back on line this summer, all of which pre-COVID was seasonal, except for PHL. JFK-MXP may be coming back on line because at the moment, there is room. AZ dropped it, EK isn't flying it, and plenty of cargo moves on it, but with Europe experiencing a third wave and Italy itself in lockdown, I suspect some of the Italy routes will get postponed. JFK to CDG is interesting. It has been in continuous operation since it launched in 1987 (to ORY, moved to CDG in 1999). It was always flown with a 767 with a few exceptions here and there (it launched with a 767-200ER, got up gauged to a DC10-30 for a time in 1992, then settled around the 767-300ER which lasted until March 2019, when all TATL at JFK went 777 (CDG and MAD were the last 2 767 routes it had at JFK at the time). AA did fly it with a 777 for a time after the TWA acquisition and operated a later departure too, as AA 120/121 on a 757 but it did was cut in 2008. Suddenly, JFK became profitable for AA as a result of the moves, as the dispatch reliability of the 767 was terrible, not to mention the cabin experience, and the 777s across the entire portfolio of services had a more or less unified product, minus the rocking seats on some 772s. It will be interesting to see what happens to CDG. It has always done well for AA, is the airline's #2 station in Europe, and the market out of JFK has held on, with 2 x 77W on AF and 1 A333 on DL in spite of COVID. My guess is that AA 44/45 will carry a lot more cargo than pax for some time to come, but glad to see it come back.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:04 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
HAM has not worked out for UA at EWR (a route it inherited from CO) even with a big hub at EWR and being tightly connected with LH.


But the problem was not the lack of demand, and not the lack of high yielding passengers. Those are existant and theres a lot of them, but United did not manage to get these flying on their airplane, most of them flew via FRA or elsewhere because United became more and more unreliable and unattractive in HAM. Starting from the merger the share of total HAM-NYC and HAM-USA traffic on the HAM-EWR flight decreased, while the overall NYC and USA numbers from Hamburg increased, so the share decreased ...
From 2005 up until late 2015 when they started to "change a running system" things started to get bad. There were some other factors as well of course, but writing them all would just be too much.
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ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:09 pm

DLHAM wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
HAM has not worked out for UA at EWR (a route it inherited from CO) even with a big hub at EWR and being tightly connected with LH.


But the problem was not the lack of demand, and not the lack of high yielding passengers. Those are existant and theres a lot of them, but United did not manage to get these flying on their airplane, most of them flew via FRA or elsewhere because United became more and more unreliable and unattractive in HAM.
From 2005 up until late 2015 when they started to "change a running system" things started to get bad. There were some other factors as well of course, but writing them all would just be too much.


I don't really understand what you are saying. UA flew EWR-HAM nonstop with a 767-300ER before it pulled the route. As to why travelers opted to go via FRA it might be because at the time, perception was that LH's service was better than UA's which until a few years ago, might have made sense, as UA was not highly regarded. UA's portfolio of Germany service out of EWR is FRA, MUC, and TXL. A second FRA frequency was to be added in Summer 2020 but obviously did not happen, given COVID. FRA and MUC do well due to connections. TXL is the only year round service out of the NY area (DL flies it seasonally, but neither DL nor UA will fly it this summer). CO also flew EWR-CGN and EWR-DUS and those too were pulled (DUS I think after 9/11 when PrivatAir stepped in, until LH took it over again to mainline). CGN didn't work. EWR-STT also did not work. CGN, STT, and the early operation of HAM were all on the 757 at CO. EK also flew JFK-HAM-DXB for a time on the 77W. That too, did not work.
 
sagechan
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:31 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
wenders825 wrote:
something like CLT-DUS/STR/HAM may be more likely to be on a 321XLR. but FRA and MUC will be staying. CLT is unique in how well it's able to serve those two cities for AA


While DUS and HAM could work from CLT with the XLR (I do not mention STR on purpose) I think that it would be smarter to serve those two from ORD or JFK, as the local traffic demand is MUCH higher here. In 2019 CLT had 9,6 passengers a day oneway from DUS and 7,5 from HAM, Chicago had 39,3 from DUS and 44,4 from HAM. (NYC-HAM: 155!).


AA does not do well in Germany, and never has. The problem is point-of-sale from Germany. They've flown ORD-DUS in the past, when Air Berlin was still in business, and even with connectivity on the ORD and DUS end, they could not make it work. HAM has not worked out for UA at EWR (a route it inherited from CO) even with a big hub at EWR and being tightly connected with LH. I just don't see AA adding very much of anything to Germany out of JFK down the road, even with the 321XLR when it arrives on property.

One of AA's first routes to Europe from JFK in 1987 was to FRA (alongside ORY and ZRH and a short lived LYS). The FRA route was pulled in 1990 or 1991. AA also also not been able to make FRA work from MIA (it tried in the 2000s), and the PHL to FRA/MUC routes failed as well. DFW and CLT work because of (1) feed, and (2) cargo.


The 321XLR might allow JFK to FRA/MUC not secondary Germany for the correct reasons you mention, if AA tries secondary Germany it'll be PHL or CLT as it will rely on US based connections.

Also, I don't get the A.net obsession of "it was tried 30 years ago...blah blah blah" as that has zero relavance to aviation today.
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avi8
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:01 pm

Is there a reason why all of the MAXs are operating out of MIA? With 41 now in the fleet, it seems strange they’re not flying out of other hubs yet.

I flew through MIA last week and was amazed by how many MAXs I saw.
avi8
 
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DLHAM
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:06 pm

avi8 wrote:
Is there a reason why all of the MAXs are operating out of MIA? With 41 now in the fleet, it seems strange they’re not flying out of other hubs yet.

I flew through MIA last week and was amazed by how many MAXs I saw.


AFAIK Miami also had some serious 737-800 operations as well in the past, maybe they replace them 1:1 with MAXes now. Makes sense as routes from Miami tend to be longer.
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usairways85
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:59 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
I noticed that AA is really going to ramp up their Europe schedule effective next week on Sunday. The following will resume:

DFW-MAD/FCO
PHL-LHR/DUB
JFK-CDG
LAX-LHR
MIA-LHR/BCN

I know JFK-CDG could be because of both cargo and the B6 partnership. But some of the non LHR resumptions seem rather surprising especially since most of Europe except for Iceland is closed.

I am really skeptical of DFW-FCO and JFK-CDG as both Italy and France are in heightened lockdowns over the past few weeks and into April.
 
miaami
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:29 pm

AA is responding to B6 on MIA-BDL. Increasing MIA-BDL to 3X daily eff Jun 3 2021.
 
Brickell305
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:50 pm

DLHAM wrote:
avi8 wrote:
Is there a reason why all of the MAXs are operating out of MIA? With 41 now in the fleet, it seems strange they’re not flying out of other hubs yet.

I flew through MIA last week and was amazed by how many MAXs I saw.


AFAIK Miami also had some serious 737-800 operations as well in the past, maybe they replace them 1:1 with MAXes now. Makes sense as routes from Miami tend to be longer.

I don’t think it necessarily has to do with stage length. Pre-COVID, the Maxes were used primarily to the Caribbean which is all fairly close to Miami. Post-COVID, they seem to be returning to the same trend. They do plan to introduce them on some longer flights to northern Brazil but those are very much the minority of Max routes ex MIA.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:05 pm

sagechan wrote:
Also, I don't get the A.net obsession of "it was tried 30 years ago...blah blah blah" as that has zero relavance to aviation today.


Yeah, its like that on almost any Forum. People cant imagine that there are "untapped potentials", routes that are currently not served just cannot work ... :roll: If all routes that have no service today would not have potential then we would never see any new flights/routes.

I can very well remember the early 2000s, my home Airport Hamburg was without any long haul flight at that time (apart from Iran Air to Tehran), when first rumors came in that Continental could start a flight from Newark to Hamburg and also Emirates could start a flight from Dubai people would not believe it, their argument was that Delta had just quit Hamburg a few years earlier so a flight to the US could not work, regarding Emirates people said that there is no single flight to Arabia or the Far East, so there is no market and the A330-200 would be muuuuch too big. Well, at the end both were very sucessful and also air transat launched a flight with sucess.
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ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:50 pm

sagechan wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
DLHAM wrote:

While DUS and HAM could work from CLT with the XLR (I do not mention STR on purpose) I think that it would be smarter to serve those two from ORD or JFK, as the local traffic demand is MUCH higher here. In 2019 CLT had 9,6 passengers a day oneway from DUS and 7,5 from HAM, Chicago had 39,3 from DUS and 44,4 from HAM. (NYC-HAM: 155!).


AA does not do well in Germany, and never has. The problem is point-of-sale from Germany. They've flown ORD-DUS in the past, when Air Berlin was still in business, and even with connectivity on the ORD and DUS end, they could not make it work. HAM has not worked out for UA at EWR (a route it inherited from CO) even with a big hub at EWR and being tightly connected with LH. I just don't see AA adding very much of anything to Germany out of JFK down the road, even with the 321XLR when it arrives on property.

One of AA's first routes to Europe from JFK in 1987 was to FRA (alongside ORY and ZRH and a short lived LYS). The FRA route was pulled in 1990 or 1991. AA also also not been able to make FRA work from MIA (it tried in the 2000s), and the PHL to FRA/MUC routes failed as well. DFW and CLT work because of (1) feed, and (2) cargo.


The 321XLR might allow JFK to FRA/MUC not secondary Germany for the correct reasons you mention, if AA tries secondary Germany it'll be PHL or CLT as it will rely on US based connections.

Also, I don't get the A.net obsession of "it was tried 30 years ago...blah blah blah" as that has zero relavance to aviation today.


If AA can capture corporate contracts to FRA and MUC, then yes, they'd start it from JFK, also to assure a oneworld presence in the NY to Germany market, which, since the end of Air Berlin in 2017 has been non-existent other than via connections, but I am not sure it is a high priority for AA out of JFK at least not now and the 321XLRs are a few years away. AA could not make primary or secondary Germany work out of PHL. FRA and MUC were moved, and PHL-TXL was a victim of the pandemic. The only logical gateways to Germany for AA remain DFW, CLT and potentially MIA again, but that's about it.

Also, no one here is saying "it was tried 30 years ago blah blah blah". It most definitely has relevance for today but it was never really a part of the reason why AA can't make Germany work, so really not sure what your point is.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:54 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
avi8 wrote:
Is there a reason why all of the MAXs are operating out of MIA? With 41 now in the fleet, it seems strange they’re not flying out of other hubs yet.

I flew through MIA last week and was amazed by how many MAXs I saw.


AFAIK Miami also had some serious 737-800 operations as well in the past, maybe they replace them 1:1 with MAXes now. Makes sense as routes from Miami tend to be longer.

I don’t think it necessarily has to do with stage length. Pre-COVID, the Maxes were used primarily to the Caribbean which is all fairly close to Miami. Post-COVID, they seem to be returning to the same trend. They do plan to introduce them on some longer flights to northern Brazil but those are very much the minority of Max routes ex MIA.


Pre-COVID and pre-March 2019 groundings, The 737-MAXs were flying out of MIA to East Coast destinations, namely DCA, BOS, LGA, etc...and some Caribbean destinations. Today, they are again flying those routes, plus MIA-SAN and are going to be flying to Manaus from MIA as well.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:30 am

avi8 wrote:
Is there a reason why all of the MAXs are operating out of MIA? With 41 now in the fleet, it seems strange they’re not flying out of other hubs yet.

I flew through MIA last week and was amazed by how many MAXs I saw.


AA launched the MAX service the first time (before the groundings) exclusively around MIA as well. The difference this time is that they are using them on a larger number of Caribbean routes, and to the West Coast (SAN, specifically) from MIA. There are a number of reasons that make sense, for now, to isolate MAX ops to MIA. Maintenance is one, and the scrutiny the plane continues to receive. The MAX is also well suited for MIA, given its ability to carry more cargo than the -800. Airlines will often isolate a type to a hub for cost and operational reasons for a specified period of time, and this has been done before, by others. UA, in 2013, moved the entire 747 fleet, which had real problems with dispatch reliability and maintenance issues, to SFO so they could be worked on in the same place, and reduce the potential fo rippling delays.

I can see AA move the MAX's around the system more as traffic picks up, but for now, they'll likely remain based in MIA. Not all 41 are flying either. Some are parked.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:48 am

More on the AA MAX, this weekend the following routes have been converted to the MAX:

MIA-IND

Separately, other than AA 907/908 (MIA-EZE) which has been operating daily and the reduced to 3 x weekly DFW-EZE, the rest of the EZE services on AA have been pushed to June. JFK was due to restart in April. Now that's not happening. China also gets pushed further out, to June.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:11 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
More on the AA MAX, this weekend the following routes have been converted to the MAX:

MIA-IND

Separately, other than AA 907/908 (MIA-EZE) which has been operating daily and the reduced to 3 x weekly DFW-EZE, the rest of the EZE services on AA have been pushed to June. JFK was due to restart in April. Now that's not happening. China also gets pushed further out, to June.


How are the load factors on flights to South America (to places like LIM, GRU, SCL, BOG)?
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:15 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
More on the AA MAX, this weekend the following routes have been converted to the MAX:

MIA-IND

Separately, other than AA 907/908 (MIA-EZE) which has been operating daily and the reduced to 3 x weekly DFW-EZE, the rest of the EZE services on AA have been pushed to June. JFK was due to restart in April. Now that's not happening. China also gets pushed further out, to June.


How are the load factors on flights to South America (to places like LIM, GRU, SCL, BOG)?


I've heard GRU and EZE both go out 90% or more quite often. Not sure about the others though and have no view into that. There is a TON of cargo on these flights too which is why BOG is getting the 777 as are some other routes being flown with 787s.
 
himarhernandez
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:22 pm

Any word on when the Flagship Lounges will reopen?
 
x1234
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:39 pm

If GRU/EZE loads and yields are so good why not resume JFK/LAX-GRU/EZE sooner? I heard AA was very lucrative carrying cargo from Asia to Latin America (electronics without the batteries) and produce from Latin America to Asia via DFW/LAX/JFK.

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