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washingtonflyer
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:34 pm

I can vouch for DCA. You could play lacrosse in the hallways in the C-North pier and likely not hit anybody with your ball.
 
AmericanAir88
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:30 am

Is AA looking to add back a lot to JFK over the summer? Maybe ... JFK-LAS return?

How is AA doing at JFK right now?
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:20 am

Looks as though BOS-LHR has been punted--again--this time into June.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:41 am

AmericanAir88 wrote:
Is AA looking to add back a lot to JFK over the summer? Maybe ... JFK-LAS return?

How is AA doing at JFK right now?


If schedules announced in recent weeks concurrent with the B6 partnership come to fruition, JFK-ATH, JFK-TLV, JFK-BOG, JFK-MDE, JFK-CLO, JFK-SCL are all to be up and running by the end of June, all of which are new routes for AA out of JFK. AA restarted JFK-CDG last weekend and resumed JFK-GRU last night. LAX and SFO got a frequency increase. MXP is supposedly the next TATL route to resume, and it seems like for now, the plan is for BCN, MAD, and FCO to run again.

AA is at around 40 daily departures at JFK right now, and that is up from a year ago (April 2020) when, due to the pandemic and the NY lockdown, the number was in the middle teens. If the rest of the TATL routes resume and taking into account the newly announced flights, my sense is that by August, AA will be at 50 or so per day at JFK. I don't see AA adding much frequency back to LHR (they are up to 4 daily in normal times) this year.

JFK-LAS on AA did operate for a few days in February, but I think this route is unlikely to return on a regular basis. They can just have B6 do the flying for them on that.

LAS, SAN, and SEA were the other transcons suspended well before COVID and attributed in part to the slot waivers AA received associated with the runway renovation at JFK. Those waivers were extended in 2020.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:44 am

ChrisNH38 wrote:
Looks as though BOS-LHR has been punted--again--this time into June.


Not surprising. There simply isn't much demand and one flight on BA is likely more than enough for the market for now.
 
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cathay747
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:46 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Is AA looking to add back a lot to JFK over the summer? Maybe ... JFK-LAS return?

How is AA doing at JFK right now?


AA restarted JFK-CDG last weekend


I would think this gets suspended given the situation in France right now, with a (IIRC) 30-day lockdown either just started or about to start.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
Seat1F
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:53 pm

cathay747 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Is AA looking to add back a lot to JFK over the summer? Maybe ... JFK-LAS return?

How is AA doing at JFK right now?


AA restarted JFK-CDG last weekend


I would think this gets suspended given the situation in France right now, with a (IIRC) 30-day lockdown either just started or about to start.

Agreed. Europe will definitely not be the place to go for the next few months given the COVID situation. I have already written off any possibility of going to Europe this summer. Perhaps in the autumn.
 
x1234
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:00 pm

There is definitely more demand for SCL from the USA. AA is smart on capitalizing on it. Chile is a strong US ally and part of the US VISA Waiver Program, the only Latin American country in the program so demand is near infinite.
 
CIDFlyer
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:20 pm

AA begins running some mainline flights today between CLT and Pensacola and Destin Fort Walton Beach
 
Detroit313
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:23 pm

Delta has made JFK - ATH year round based on their latest schedule update. That makes Delta the second airline after Emirates to have year-round service to Athens from the US.

American Airlines should try it too. ORD - ATH or PHL - ATH could definitely work year-round on a 787-8. The perfect aircraft for such routes. Don't let Delta be the only US airline with year-round service from the US.

Right before Covid, AA tried to be quite adventurous with year round service to more European routes other than the usual. In November of 2019 they announced that Lisbon and Prague would become year-round from PHL. Then of course covid hit...
 
panamair
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:31 pm

cathay747 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Is AA looking to add back a lot to JFK over the summer? Maybe ... JFK-LAS return?

How is AA doing at JFK right now?


AA restarted JFK-CDG last weekend


I would think this gets suspended given the situation in France right now, with a (IIRC) 30-day lockdown either just started or about to start.


I believe they were already flying this for cargo only prior to the end of March pax resumption. But yes, right now the pax loads on AA44 are pretty atrocious..almost everyday it’s been about a dozen or fewer pax total on the 777; so far tonight, no one booked in J or Premium Economy...
 
asuflyer
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:40 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Delta has made JFK - ATH year round based on their latest schedule update. That makes Delta the second airline after Emirates to have year-round service to Athens from the US.

American Airlines should try it too. ORD - ATH or PHL - ATH could definitely work year-round on a 787-8. The perfect aircraft for such routes. Don't let Delta be the only US airline with year-round service from the US.

Right before Covid, AA tried to be quite adventurous with year round service to more European routes other than the usual. In November of 2019 they announced that Lisbon and Prague would become year-round from PHL. Then of course covid hit...


EWR/JFK-ATH is really driven by VFR whereas ORD and PHL are almost all leisure pax. ORD and PHL to ATH work summer seasonal at best.
 
travaz
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:46 pm

This might affect the return of Pax. If you read the article international is not wide open like domestic . CDC says it is safe for fully vaccinated people to travel.
https://www.azfamily.com/news/us_world_ ... 0166f.html


For international travel, fully vaccinated people don't need a Covid-19 test prior to travel -- unless it is required by the destination -- and do not need to self-quarantine after returning to the United States. They should still have a negative Covid-19 test before boarding a flight to the US, and a follow up test three to five days after their return, the CDC noted.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:58 pm

cathay747 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Is AA looking to add back a lot to JFK over the summer? Maybe ... JFK-LAS return?

How is AA doing at JFK right now?


AA restarted JFK-CDG last weekend


I would think this gets suspended given the situation in France right now, with a (IIRC) 30-day lockdown either just started or about to start.


Perhaps. Of the 3 airlines flying NY area to CDG, AA would be the one I can see getting suspended. AF is 2 x daily, and UA has been running it almost daily from EWR for a while.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:00 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Delta has made JFK - ATH year round based on their latest schedule update. That makes Delta the second airline after Emirates to have year-round service to Athens from the US.

American Airlines should try it too. ORD - ATH or PHL - ATH could definitely work year-round on a 787-8. The perfect aircraft for such routes. Don't let Delta be the only US airline with year-round service from the US.

Right before Covid, AA tried to be quite adventurous with year round service to more European routes other than the usual. In November of 2019 they announced that Lisbon and Prague would become year-round from PHL. Then of course covid hit...


US-ATH (outside of COVID) falls off a cliff pax wise, and generally does not work outside the high season. There is virtually no premium demand. ORD and PHL to ATH is (or was, pre pandemic) all about summer vacations. NY to ATH is a mix of VFR and Leisure.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:01 pm

panamair wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

AA restarted JFK-CDG last weekend


I would think this gets suspended given the situation in France right now, with a (IIRC) 30-day lockdown either just started or about to start.


I believe they were already flying this for cargo only prior to the end of March pax resumption. But yes, right now the pax loads on AA44 are pretty atrocious..almost everyday it’s been about a dozen or fewer pax total on the 777; so far tonight, no one booked in J or Premium Economy...


It has run regularly as a cargo only flight yes, but not daily. It only resumed as a pax flight last Saturday (it was suspended in March 2020). My guess is they'll keep it running for the cargo but cut the frequency to 5 or fewer per week.
 
rjbesikof
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:15 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

AA restarted JFK-CDG last weekend


I would think this gets suspended given the situation in France right now, with a (IIRC) 30-day lockdown either just started or about to start.


Perhaps. Of the 3 airlines flying NY area to CDG, AA would be the one I can see getting suspended. AF is 2 x daily, and UA has been running it almost daily from EWR for a while.


DL is also flying JFK-CDG.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:56 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
cathay747 wrote:

I would think this gets suspended given the situation in France right now, with a (IIRC) 30-day lockdown either just started or about to start.


Perhaps. Of the 3 airlines flying NY area to CDG, AA would be the one I can see getting suspended. AF is 2 x daily, and UA has been running it almost daily from EWR for a while.


DL is also flying JFK-CDG.


Yep. I forgot to include them. All together, capacity wise, it is a quite a bit. DL is an A333, AA a 772, AF 2 x 77W, and UA is 78X.
 
Detroit313
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:37 pm

asuflyer wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Delta has made JFK - ATH year round based on their latest schedule update. That makes Delta the second airline after Emirates to have year-round service to Athens from the US.

American Airlines should try it too. ORD - ATH or PHL - ATH could definitely work year-round on a 787-8. The perfect aircraft for such routes. Don't let Delta be the only US airline with year-round service from the US.

Right before Covid, AA tried to be quite adventurous with year round service to more European routes other than the usual. In November of 2019 they announced that Lisbon and Prague would become year-round from PHL. Then of course covid hit...


EWR/JFK-ATH is really driven by VFR whereas ORD and PHL are almost all leisure pax. ORD and PHL to ATH work summer seasonal at best.


Then AA should do NY - ATH year-round like Delta and Emirates.

I think we would be shocked by how well ORD - ATH would do year-round. Chicago has a massive Greek population and on top of that ORD could connect Athens with 1 stop so many areas that Delta cannot capture from JFK. The number of passengers from ORD who connect to Athens in London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam even in the middle of the winter is pretty large according to the numbers. With the focus on leisure that covid has caused I think AA should consider it.
 
SESGDL
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:57 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Delta has made JFK - ATH year round based on their latest schedule update. That makes Delta the second airline after Emirates to have year-round service to Athens from the US.

American Airlines should try it too. ORD - ATH or PHL - ATH could definitely work year-round on a 787-8. The perfect aircraft for such routes. Don't let Delta be the only US airline with year-round service from the US.

Right before Covid, AA tried to be quite adventurous with year round service to more European routes other than the usual. In November of 2019 they announced that Lisbon and Prague would become year-round from PHL. Then of course covid hit...


EWR/JFK-ATH is really driven by VFR whereas ORD and PHL are almost all leisure pax. ORD and PHL to ATH work summer seasonal at best.


Then AA should do NY - ATH year-round like Delta and Emirates.

I think we would be shocked by how well ORD - ATH would do year-round. Chicago has a massive Greek population and on top of that ORD could connect Athens with 1 stop so many areas that Delta cannot capture from JFK. The number of passengers from ORD who connect to Athens in London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam even in the middle of the winter is pretty large according to the numbers. With the focus on leisure that covid has caused I think AA should consider it.


What do you know that every airline doesn't? Seems a little absurd that there's this giant market that all the airlines have just continued to ignore, especially two that have giant hubs in Chicago and access to every piece of market data in existence.

Jeremy
 
miaami
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:23 pm

It appears that the AA EZE flights are cancelled the next few days. Is this due to Covid?
 
Detroit313
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:50 pm

SESGDL wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
asuflyer wrote:

EWR/JFK-ATH is really driven by VFR whereas ORD and PHL are almost all leisure pax. ORD and PHL to ATH work summer seasonal at best.


Then AA should do NY - ATH year-round like Delta and Emirates.

I think we would be shocked by how well ORD - ATH would do year-round. Chicago has a massive Greek population and on top of that ORD could connect Athens with 1 stop so many areas that Delta cannot capture from JFK. The number of passengers from ORD who connect to Athens in London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam even in the middle of the winter is pretty large according to the numbers. With the focus on leisure that covid has caused I think AA should consider it.


What do you know that every airline doesn't? Seems a little absurd that there's this giant market that all the airlines have just continued to ignore, especially two that have giant hubs in Chicago and access to every piece of market data in existence.

Jeremy


There could be a million reasons why a market might be ignored from a certain base. United and American ignored Athens from Chicago for decades. It wasn't until 2019 that it was finally launched and it was a massive success for AA. That doesn't mean that it wouldn't have been a success in 2015 or 2005 or 1995, but the dynamics are different each time. The airline might have a different strategy or different priorities or not the right aircraft.
 
dcajet
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:46 pm

x1234 wrote:
There is definitely more demand for SCL from the USA. AA is smart on capitalizing on it. Chile is a strong US ally and part of the US VISA Waiver Program, the only Latin American country in the program so demand is near infinite.


Effective Monday Chile is closing its borders to international arrivals (Chilean residents exempted); initially for 30 days. LATAM Chile is suspending international flights ex-SCL.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
dcajet
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:53 pm

miaami wrote:
It appears that the AA EZE flights are cancelled the next few days. Is this due to Covid?


Correct, at the request of the government and in effect since last Monday, airlines have to reduce frequencies further to limit the number of travelers arriving in the country. I believe MIA is down to 5/week, DFW down to 1 and JFK suspended until May. Cargo flights on AA continue without restrictions. All pax flights from Braxil, Chile and Mexico are suspended due to the high number of new COVID cases there (Brazil is the new ground zero for the virus).

Couldn't have come at a worse time for AA. All the MIA flights were sold out due to Easter break.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:51 pm

dcajet wrote:
miaami wrote:
It appears that the AA EZE flights are cancelled the next few days. Is this due to Covid?


Correct, at the request of the government and in effect since last Monday, airlines have to reduce frequencies further to limit the number of travelers arriving in the country. I believe MIA is down to 5/week, DFW down to 1 and JFK suspended until May. Cargo flights on AA continue without restrictions. All pax flights from Braxil, Chile and Mexico are suspended due to the high number of new COVID cases there (Brazil is the new ground zero for the virus).

Couldn't have come at a worse time for AA. All the MIA flights were sold out due to Easter break.


What’s stopping AA from upgrading then DFW flight to 77W? Also on a separate note are the AR MCO/JFK flights eventually coming back? Was always curious how those flights did pre COVID.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:36 pm

Irehdna wrote:
dcajet wrote:
miaami wrote:
It appears that the AA EZE flights are cancelled the next few days. Is this due to Covid?


Correct, at the request of the government and in effect since last Monday, airlines have to reduce frequencies further to limit the number of travelers arriving in the country. I believe MIA is down to 5/week, DFW down to 1 and JFK suspended until May. Cargo flights on AA continue without restrictions. All pax flights from Braxil, Chile and Mexico are suspended due to the high number of new COVID cases there (Brazil is the new ground zero for the virus).

Couldn't have come at a worse time for AA. All the MIA flights were sold out due to Easter break.


What’s stopping AA from upgrading then DFW flight to 77W? Also on a separate note are the AR MCO/JFK flights eventually coming back? Was always curious how those flights did pre COVID.


The JFK flight, pre-COVID had its frequency cut by 2 to enable the EZE-MCO flight to operate (not enough aircraft). I doubt EZE-MCO will return any time soon. It was a leisure flight geared toward holiday traffic. That's not coming back for a long time. JFK held its own, but the departure time on the southbound segment was terrible, departing at 4:30pm and arriving at 5:00am. Surprised AR didn't move to T4 then or now, and co-locate with its SkyTeam partners once it resumes JFK. AA is the only one that seems to make JFK to EZE work. The route has operated almost consistently since the 1990s, and during the peak northern hemisphere winter holiday period, operate occasionally with a 77W for a few weeks at a time. AA carries a ton of cargo on JFK-EZE and it went out (pre-COVID) often full.
 
dcajet
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:18 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
dcajet wrote:

Correct, at the request of the government and in effect since last Monday, airlines have to reduce frequencies further to limit the number of travelers arriving in the country. I believe MIA is down to 5/week, DFW down to 1 and JFK suspended until May. Cargo flights on AA continue without restrictions. All pax flights from Braxil, Chile and Mexico are suspended due to the high number of new COVID cases there (Brazil is the new ground zero for the virus).

Couldn't have come at a worse time for AA. All the MIA flights were sold out due to Easter break.


What’s stopping AA from upgrading then DFW flight to 77W? Also on a separate note are the AR MCO/JFK flights eventually coming back? Was always curious how those flights did pre COVID.


The JFK flight, pre-COVID had its frequency cut by 2 to enable the EZE-MCO flight to operate (not enough aircraft). I doubt EZE-MCO will return any time soon. It was a leisure flight geared toward holiday traffic. That's not coming back for a long time. JFK held its own, but the departure time on the southbound segment was terrible, departing at 4:30pm and arriving at 5:00am. Surprised AR didn't move to T4 then or now, and co-locate with its SkyTeam partners once it resumes JFK. AA is the only one that seems to make JFK to EZE work. The route has operated almost consistently since the 1990s, and during the peak northern hemisphere winter holiday period, operate occasionally with a 77W for a few weeks at a time. AA carries a ton of cargo on JFK-EZE and it went out (pre-COVID) often full.


JFK will return, no question about it. IIRC it is slated for a July return (4-5x w) but seeing how COVID is taking a turn for the worse all over South America, I have my doubts. The southbound departure time is not ideal, I was told AR could not get better slots. In fact they tried to re time the JFK departure time back in 2018 without success. Probably they would have a better chance now. I never understood why AR operates out of T7 at JFK and not Delta's, given that they codeshare on this. Space issues perhaps? AR uses the BA lounge at JFK.

PA operated nonstop on this route from 1963-1991. AR has operated at JFK since 1950 with the DC-6, Comet IV, 707, 747, A310, A340 & A330. United picked up where PA left and flew successfully between the two cities until for internal reasons they stopped flying international ex JFK and moved the EZE flight to IAD. AA joined the party in 1996 and became the market leader when United left it.

I doubt we will see MCO return over the short term. With that said, EZE-MIA is booming even now, with 99% of the paxs being Argentina POS; as inbound foreign is still not allowed in Argentina.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:38 am

dcajet wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Irehdna wrote:

What’s stopping AA from upgrading then DFW flight to 77W? Also on a separate note are the AR MCO/JFK flights eventually coming back? Was always curious how those flights did pre COVID.


The JFK flight, pre-COVID had its frequency cut by 2 to enable the EZE-MCO flight to operate (not enough aircraft). I doubt EZE-MCO will return any time soon. It was a leisure flight geared toward holiday traffic. That's not coming back for a long time. JFK held its own, but the departure time on the southbound segment was terrible, departing at 4:30pm and arriving at 5:00am. Surprised AR didn't move to T4 then or now, and co-locate with its SkyTeam partners once it resumes JFK. AA is the only one that seems to make JFK to EZE work. The route has operated almost consistently since the 1990s, and during the peak northern hemisphere winter holiday period, operate occasionally with a 77W for a few weeks at a time. AA carries a ton of cargo on JFK-EZE and it went out (pre-COVID) often full.


JFK will return, no question about it. IIRC it is slated for a July return (4-5x w) but seeing how COVID is taking a turn for the worse all over South America, I have my doubts. The southbound departure time is not ideal, I was told AR could not get better slots. In fact they tried to re time the JFK departure time back in 2018 without success. Probably they would have a better chance now. I never understood why AR operates out of T7 at JFK and not Delta's, given that they codeshare on this. Space issues perhaps? AR uses the BA lounge at JFK.

PA operated nonstop on this route from 1963-1991. AR has operated at JFK since 1950 with the DC-6, Comet IV, 707, 747, A310, A340 & A330. United picked up where PA left and flew successfully between the two cities until for internal reasons they stopped flying international ex JFK and moved the EZE flight to IAD. AA joined the party in 1996 and became the market leader when United left it.

I doubt we will see MCO return over the short term. With that said, EZE-MIA is booming even now, with 99% of the paxs being Argentina POS; as inbound foreign is still not allowed in Argentina.


Great summary. I seem to recall the AR flight has always been (or at least from the 1990s) timed with an afternoon (late)/early evening departure. I remember flying out of JFK on UA to LHR in June of 1997 and taking off right behind an AR A310. This was around 6-7pm.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:31 am

The new CLT-FCA is increasing from Saturday-only to daily, BOS-ILM from Saturday-only to 5x weekly, and a bunch of other routes are receiving more frequencies: https://crankyflier.com/2021/04/05/delt ... ir-spears/

AA also put the third daily MIA-GYE/UIO back on sale following DOT approval.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:44 pm

Ishrion wrote:
AA also put the third daily MIA-GYE/UIO back on sale following DOT approval.


I think I read somewhere else that AA is moving the DFW-GYE/UIO over to MIA. Is that temporary or does that mean that AA does not plan to resume at least DFW-UIO?

Too bad. I far far prefer going through Customs and connecting inbound in DFW.

I know the old saying that full flights don’t necessarily equal profitable, but I flew UIO-DFW shortly after it inaugurated the first time and it was very full on an A319.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:51 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
AA also put the third daily MIA-GYE/UIO back on sale following DOT approval.


I think I read somewhere else that AA is moving the DFW-GYE/UIO over to MIA. Is that temporary or does that mean that AA does not plan to resume at least DFW-UIO?

Too bad. I far far prefer going through Customs and connecting inbound in DFW.

I know the old saying that full flights don’t necessarily equal profitable, but I flew UIO-DFW shortly after it inaugurated the first time and it was very full on an A319.


Yes, AA requested and was granted permission to shift the daily DFW-GYE/UIO over to MIA-GYE/UIO, which increased MIA-GYE/UIO from 2x to 3x daily.

This is "permanently" discontinuing DFW to Ecuador unless AA decides to apply to move the frequencies back. I don't think AA has put DFW-UIO/GYE on sale since the pandemic began.
 
tphuang
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:06 pm

Ishrion wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
AA also put the third daily MIA-GYE/UIO back on sale following DOT approval.


I think I read somewhere else that AA is moving the DFW-GYE/UIO over to MIA. Is that temporary or does that mean that AA does not plan to resume at least DFW-UIO?

Too bad. I far far prefer going through Customs and connecting inbound in DFW.

I know the old saying that full flights don’t necessarily equal profitable, but I flew UIO-DFW shortly after it inaugurated the first time and it was very full on an A319.


Yes, AA requested and was granted permission to shift the daily DFW-GYE/UIO over to MIA-GYE/UIO, which increased MIA-GYE/UIO from 2x to 3x daily.

This is "permanently" discontinuing DFW to Ecuador unless AA decides to apply to move the frequencies back. I don't think AA has put DFW-UIO/GYE on sale since the pandemic began.


Is there a limit to how many frequencies can be offered to Ecuador? How come they can't just request for additional frequencies?

There is this complaint by NK on this https://simpleflying.com/spirit-ecuador ... n-jetblue/
 
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Polot
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:16 pm

tphuang wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

I think I read somewhere else that AA is moving the DFW-GYE/UIO over to MIA. Is that temporary or does that mean that AA does not plan to resume at least DFW-UIO?

Too bad. I far far prefer going through Customs and connecting inbound in DFW.

I know the old saying that full flights don’t necessarily equal profitable, but I flew UIO-DFW shortly after it inaugurated the first time and it was very full on an A319.


Yes, AA requested and was granted permission to shift the daily DFW-GYE/UIO over to MIA-GYE/UIO, which increased MIA-GYE/UIO from 2x to 3x daily.

This is "permanently" discontinuing DFW to Ecuador unless AA decides to apply to move the frequencies back. I don't think AA has put DFW-UIO/GYE on sale since the pandemic began.


Is there a limit to how many frequencies can be offered to Ecuador? How come they can't just request for additional frequencies?

There is this complaint by NK on this https://simpleflying.com/spirit-ecuador ... n-jetblue/

Only 120 weekly round trips are allowed between the US and Ecuador. I’m not sure how many frequencies are available and up for grabs.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 3623
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:21 pm

Polot wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

Yes, AA requested and was granted permission to shift the daily DFW-GYE/UIO over to MIA-GYE/UIO, which increased MIA-GYE/UIO from 2x to 3x daily.

This is "permanently" discontinuing DFW to Ecuador unless AA decides to apply to move the frequencies back. I don't think AA has put DFW-UIO/GYE on sale since the pandemic began.


Is there a limit to how many frequencies can be offered to Ecuador? How come they can't just request for additional frequencies?

There is this complaint by NK on this https://simpleflying.com/spirit-ecuador ... n-jetblue/

Only 120 weekly round trips are allowed between the US and Ecuador. I’m not sure how many frequencies are available and up for grabs.


Yep, without Open Skies, frequencies between the U.S. and Ecuador are limited.

There's 0 frequencies left after Eastern took the remaining few for their GYE flights.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 3623
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:31 pm

Exact details of all the routes receiving more frequencies: https://thepointsguy.com/news/aa-new-ny ... orial&tw=1

JFK-JAC, LGA-HHH are new routes.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 6073
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:59 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Exact details of all the routes receiving more frequencies: https://thepointsguy.com/news/aa-new-ny ... orial&tw=1

JFK-JAC, LGA-HHH are new routes.


All these announced since COVID, and zero cuts to date, so much for shutting JFK down and handing everything over to B6

JFK-JAC
JFK-FLL
JFK-SNA
JFK-BOG
JFK-CLO
JFK-MDE
JFK-PLS
JFK-UVF
JFK-SCL
JFK-TLV
JFK-ATH
(resumption JFK-GIG)
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4284
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:03 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Exact details of all the routes receiving more frequencies: https://thepointsguy.com/news/aa-new-ny ... orial&tw=1

JFK-JAC, LGA-HHH are new routes.


All these announced since COVID, and zero cuts to date, so much for shutting JFK down and handing everything over to B6

JFK-JAC
JFK-FLL
JFK-SNA
JFK-BOG
JFK-CLO
JFK-MDE
JFK-PLS
JFK-UVF
JFK-SCL
JFK-TLV
JFK-ATH
(resumption JFK-GIG)


All of which likely wouldn't be possible without the B6 agreement in place, but so awesome to see AA expand at JFK. They have a world class facility there that will only get better with the upgrades being made to it. Some of these routes will be challenge to succeed for sure, but at least things are, for now, moving in the right direction, on paper.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6280
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:43 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Exact details of all the routes receiving more frequencies: https://thepointsguy.com/news/aa-new-ny ... orial&tw=1

JFK-JAC, LGA-HHH are new routes.


All these announced since COVID, and zero cuts to date, so much for shutting JFK down and handing everything over to B6

JFK-JAC
JFK-FLL
JFK-SNA
JFK-BOG
JFK-CLO
JFK-MDE
JFK-PLS
JFK-UVF
JFK-SCL
JFK-TLV
JFK-ATH
(resumption JFK-GIG)


We are over a year away from second half of 2022 when I expect the 2 airlines will be more settled with what they are going to fly out of JFK. AA is putting all of their planes in action. Let's see this summer what they are actually capable flying with all the resources they have.

AA's recent history at JFK has been a long list of trying new routes and then failing and retreating. People are not suddenly going to start flying AA because they have codeshare with B6.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4284
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:52 pm

tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Exact details of all the routes receiving more frequencies: https://thepointsguy.com/news/aa-new-ny ... orial&tw=1

JFK-JAC, LGA-HHH are new routes.


All these announced since COVID, and zero cuts to date, so much for shutting JFK down and handing everything over to B6

JFK-JAC
JFK-FLL
JFK-SNA
JFK-BOG
JFK-CLO
JFK-MDE
JFK-PLS
JFK-UVF
JFK-SCL
JFK-TLV
JFK-ATH
(resumption JFK-GIG)


We are over a year away from second half of 2022 when I expect the 2 airlines will be more settled with what they are going to fly out of JFK. AA is putting all of their planes in action. Let's see this summer what they are actually capable flying with all the resources they have.

AA's recent history at JFK has been a long list of trying new routes and then failing and retreating. People are not suddenly going to start flying AA because they have codeshare with B6.


AA's cycles of growth and retreat at JFK are nothing new and have been a thing since the 2000s. The issue here isn't a matter of people "suddenly" flying AA when they didn't necessarily before. AA's strategy in NYC is built around a pretty significant FF base. The routes that AA has added would not be possible without the B6 agreement and yet aren't proven to succeed with them either. AA is simply executing based-off what it thinks demand will be, and that demand is mostly if not entirely leisure oriented. What AA and B6 are doing is getting creative as they each face their limitations in NYC as stand alone carriers. In spite of B6's ambitions, it remains essentially an East Coast carrier and dominates in markets where demand is very much muted. There are a lot of silly adds by both carriers. B6 in MIA and AA adding FLL from JFK. But what AA has actually been doing of late is strategic (paying down some debt, refinancing other pieces of its long term debt) and with AS in OW, it actually is mounting a serious challenge to UA and DL. If the AS and B6 developments prove successful, it will force DL and UA to make similar moves. The question will be, with whom? The only player is WN, whose network fits better into UA's from a partnership standpoint but could not be a more different airline. Long term (well beyond the next couple of years), it does seem AS, WN, and B6 will end up being absorbed, each one into the Big 3.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1349
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:37 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

All these announced since COVID, and zero cuts to date, so much for shutting JFK down and handing everything over to B6

JFK-JAC
JFK-FLL
JFK-SNA
JFK-BOG
JFK-CLO
JFK-MDE
JFK-PLS
JFK-UVF
JFK-SCL
JFK-TLV
JFK-ATH
(resumption JFK-GIG)


We are over a year away from second half of 2022 when I expect the 2 airlines will be more settled with what they are going to fly out of JFK. AA is putting all of their planes in action. Let's see this summer what they are actually capable flying with all the resources they have.

AA's recent history at JFK has been a long list of trying new routes and then failing and retreating. People are not suddenly going to start flying AA because they have codeshare with B6.


AA's cycles of growth and retreat at JFK are nothing new and have been a thing since the 2000s. The issue here isn't a matter of people "suddenly" flying AA when they didn't necessarily before. AA's strategy in NYC is built around a pretty significant FF base. The routes that AA has added would not be possible without the B6 agreement and yet aren't proven to succeed with them either. AA is simply executing based-off what it thinks demand will be, and that demand is mostly if not entirely leisure oriented. What AA and B6 are doing is getting creative as they each face their limitations in NYC as stand alone carriers. In spite of B6's ambitions, it remains essentially an East Coast carrier and dominates in markets where demand is very much muted. There are a lot of silly adds by both carriers. B6 in MIA and AA adding FLL from JFK. But what AA has actually been doing of late is strategic (paying down some debt, refinancing other pieces of its long term debt) and with AS in OW, it actually is mounting a serious challenge to UA and DL. If the AS and B6 developments prove successful, it will force DL and UA to make similar moves. The question will be, with whom? The only player is WN, whose network fits better into UA's from a partnership standpoint but could not be a more different airline. Long term (well beyond the next couple of years), it does seem AS, WN, and B6 will end up being absorbed, each one into the Big 3.

WN is not going to be absorbed by anyone. That is laughable on the face of it. WN is larger domestically than every airline except AA. It is also historically the best performing financially. There is no way any DOJ would allow a WN merger or takeover by any of the big 3. Its strong financials also make it more likely to absorb a smaller carrier (as it has done in the past) than for any other carrier to absorb it. And yes, I am aware that there currently any good targets for that for WN.
 
Wneast
Posts: 726
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:41 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
tphuang wrote:

We are over a year away from second half of 2022 when I expect the 2 airlines will be more settled with what they are going to fly out of JFK. AA is putting all of their planes in action. Let's see this summer what they are actually capable flying with all the resources they have.

AA's recent history at JFK has been a long list of trying new routes and then failing and retreating. People are not suddenly going to start flying AA because they have codeshare with B6.


AA's cycles of growth and retreat at JFK are nothing new and have been a thing since the 2000s. The issue here isn't a matter of people "suddenly" flying AA when they didn't necessarily before. AA's strategy in NYC is built around a pretty significant FF base. The routes that AA has added would not be possible without the B6 agreement and yet aren't proven to succeed with them either. AA is simply executing based-off what it thinks demand will be, and that demand is mostly if not entirely leisure oriented. What AA and B6 are doing is getting creative as they each face their limitations in NYC as stand alone carriers. In spite of B6's ambitions, it remains essentially an East Coast carrier and dominates in markets where demand is very much muted. There are a lot of silly adds by both carriers. B6 in MIA and AA adding FLL from JFK. But what AA has actually been doing of late is strategic (paying down some debt, refinancing other pieces of its long term debt) and with AS in OW, it actually is mounting a serious challenge to UA and DL. If the AS and B6 developments prove successful, it will force DL and UA to make similar moves. The question will be, with whom? The only player is WN, whose network fits better into UA's from a partnership standpoint but could not be a more different airline. Long term (well beyond the next couple of years), it does seem AS, WN, and B6 will end up being absorbed, each one into the Big 3.

WN is not going to be absorbed by anyone. That is laughable on the face of it. WN is larger domestically than every airline except AA. It is also historically the best performing financially. There is no way any DOJ would allow a WN merger or takeover by any of the big 3. Its strong financials also make it more likely to absorb a smaller carrier (as it has done in the past) than for any other carrier to absorb it. And yes, I am aware that there currently any good targets for that for WN.

If any thing where to happen it would be WN buying B6 or AS
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4284
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:51 pm

Wneast wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

AA's cycles of growth and retreat at JFK are nothing new and have been a thing since the 2000s. The issue here isn't a matter of people "suddenly" flying AA when they didn't necessarily before. AA's strategy in NYC is built around a pretty significant FF base. The routes that AA has added would not be possible without the B6 agreement and yet aren't proven to succeed with them either. AA is simply executing based-off what it thinks demand will be, and that demand is mostly if not entirely leisure oriented. What AA and B6 are doing is getting creative as they each face their limitations in NYC as stand alone carriers. In spite of B6's ambitions, it remains essentially an East Coast carrier and dominates in markets where demand is very much muted. There are a lot of silly adds by both carriers. B6 in MIA and AA adding FLL from JFK. But what AA has actually been doing of late is strategic (paying down some debt, refinancing other pieces of its long term debt) and with AS in OW, it actually is mounting a serious challenge to UA and DL. If the AS and B6 developments prove successful, it will force DL and UA to make similar moves. The question will be, with whom? The only player is WN, whose network fits better into UA's from a partnership standpoint but could not be a more different airline. Long term (well beyond the next couple of years), it does seem AS, WN, and B6 will end up being absorbed, each one into the Big 3.

WN is not going to be absorbed by anyone. That is laughable on the face of it. WN is larger domestically than every airline except AA. It is also historically the best performing financially. There is no way any DOJ would allow a WN merger or takeover by any of the big 3. Its strong financials also make it more likely to absorb a smaller carrier (as it has done in the past) than for any other carrier to absorb it. And yes, I am aware that there currently any good targets for that for WN.

If any thing where to happen it would be WN buying B6 or AS


DL+WN, AA+AS, UA+B6.
 
Runway765
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:12 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
WN is not going to be absorbed by anyone. That is laughable on the face of it. WN is larger domestically than every airline except AA. It is also historically the best performing financially. There is no way any DOJ would allow a WN merger or takeover by any of the big 3. Its strong financials also make it more likely to absorb a smaller carrier (as it has done in the past) than for any other carrier to absorb it. And yes, I am aware that there currently any good targets for that for WN.

If any thing where to happen it would be WN buying B6 or AS


DL+WN, AA+AS, UA+B6.


Oh my goodness......... WN isn’t going to be absorbed by anyone. Too big and would create too many antitrust issues.

The only realistic possibility is AS being absorbed by AA at some point (so AA can get full control of SEA). But that’s it.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 677
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:13 pm

AA interview in regards to there stance with JFK and PHL

https://simpleflying.com/american-new-y ... ladelphia/
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
Runway765
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:16 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
AA interview in regards to there stance with JFK and PHL

https://simpleflying.com/american-new-y ... ladelphia/


What’s the point of the B6 partnership if PHL is going to remain the primary TATL hub?

This is why we need to go down to two network carriers with complete networks rather than 3 with incomplete gaps.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6532
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:26 pm

Runway765 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Wneast wrote:
If any thing where to happen it would be WN buying B6 or AS


DL+WN, AA+AS, UA+B6.


Oh my goodness......... WN isn’t going to be absorbed by anyone. Too big and would create too many antitrust issues.

The only realistic possibility is AS being absorbed by AA at some point (so AA can get full control of SEA). But that’s it.


Yeah, that would be a really great outcome. AA absorbing AS would turn out just like AA absorbing Air Cal and Reno Air, and US Air absorbing PSA. The entire route structure would be gone in a few years.

AA absorbing AS would likely be a disaster for AA and AS. It would be wonderful for WN. Fortunately AS’s management seems to recognize this too.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3421
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:43 pm

Runway765 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
Wneast wrote:
If any thing where to happen it would be WN buying B6 or AS


DL+WN, AA+AS, UA+B6.


Oh my goodness......... WN isn’t going to be absorbed by anyone. Too big and would create too many antitrust issues.

The only realistic possibility is AS being absorbed by AA at some point (so AA can get full control of SEA). But that’s it.


I don't think we are going to see any mergers at all in the US. The industry and the public has had enough of mergers most of them have ended with broken promises. Once this CARES 3 is over and airlines are really on their own each carrier will have to stand on its own and if they can't do it they will need to downsize their operations to the point where they can survive.

AA+AS not happening
UA+B6 not happening
DL+WN 100% not happening
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 6073
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:29 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
All these announced since COVID, and zero cuts to date, so much for shutting JFK down and handing everything over to B6

JFK-JAC
JFK-FLL
JFK-SNA
JFK-BOG
JFK-CLO
JFK-MDE
JFK-PLS
JFK-UVF
JFK-SCL
JFK-TLV
JFK-ATH
(resumption JFK-GIG)


All of which likely wouldn't be possible without the B6 agreement in place, but so awesome to see AA expand at JFK. They have a world class facility there that will only get better with the upgrades being made to it. Some of these routes will be challenge to succeed for sure, but at least things are, for now, moving in the right direction, on paper.


I am not sure to what extent the B6 partnership is directly attributable to these adds, JFK-CLO is one example where I wouldn't say the B6 partnership made a big difference.

I think they would have also added JFK-TLV regardless, given their interest in TLV over the past couple of years.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
Runway765
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:40 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Yeah, that would be a really great outcome. AA absorbing AS would turn out just like AA absorbing Air Cal and Reno Air, and US Air absorbing PSA. The entire route structure would be gone in a few years.

AA absorbing AS would likely be a disaster for AA and AS. It would be wonderful for WN. Fortunately AS’s management seems to recognize this too.


Clearly not as they agreed to join oneworld. By doing that, AA has cornered then with the new partnership. What realistic growth options does AS have? AS is pretty much now an AA feeder airline on the west coast. Reality is their only option will be to eventually merge with AA.
 
Runway765
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:45 am

jayunited wrote:
I don't think we are going to see any mergers at all in the US. The industry and the public has had enough of mergers most of them have ended with broken promises. Once this CARES 3 is over and airlines are really on their own each carrier will have to stand on its own and if they can't do it they will need to downsize their operations to the point where they can survive.


Was anyone really naive to believe that jobs and certain hubs would be saved via the mergers?

Actually, downsizing will only boost the case for an AA/AS merger down the road.

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