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Nicknuzzii
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 14, 2021 11:19 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
PHL is AA's Northeast gateway to Europe. FCO, CDG etc. are not going anywhere. Those are massively successful routes that have been operating year round for decades now.


What are you talking about? PHL TATL capacity was bigger in 2009 (yes, pre-merger) than in 2016. That's not an indication of massively successful, Mr. Hyperbole. The shrinkage suggests it wasn't even meeting threshold margins.

https://airwaysmag.com/industry/america ... kets-2017/


Why are you looking at 2016 and not 2019? That doesn’t make much sense to compare.
 
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Rookie87
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 14, 2021 11:29 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
PHL is AA's Northeast gateway to Europe. FCO, CDG etc. are not going anywhere. Those are massively successful routes that have been operating year round for decades now.


What are you talking about? PHL TATL capacity was bigger in 2009 (yes, pre-merger) than in 2016. That's not an indication of massively successful, Mr. Hyperbole. The shrinkage suggests it wasn't even meeting threshold margins.

https://airwaysmag.com/industry/america ... kets-2017/


Yet didn’t PHL have more than enough TATL additions to not only make up for those cuts but add more then they had prior? ...
Zurich was cut and came back.
BRU, Glasgow and TLV lost yet replaced by Prague, Budapest, Dubrovnik.
Almost had CMN there too and tried BLQ and TXL.
 
Detroit313
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 14, 2021 11:58 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
PHL is AA's Northeast gateway to Europe. FCO, CDG etc. are not going anywhere. Those are massively successful routes that have been operating year round for decades now.


What are you talking about? PHL TATL capacity was bigger in 2009 (yes, pre-merger) than in 2016. That's not an indication of massively successful, Mr. Hyperbole. The shrinkage suggests it wasn't even meeting threshold margins.

https://airwaysmag.com/industry/america ... kets-2017/


What about 2019 buddy? And that was with JFK, MIA, ORD, DFW etc. in the system which was not the case in 2009.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 12:35 am

Rookie87 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
PHL is AA's Northeast gateway to Europe. FCO, CDG etc. are not going anywhere. Those are massively successful routes that have been operating year round for decades now.


What are you talking about? PHL TATL capacity was bigger in 2009 (yes, pre-merger) than in 2016. That's not an indication of massively successful, Mr. Hyperbole. The shrinkage suggests it wasn't even meeting threshold margins.

https://airwaysmag.com/industry/america ... kets-2017/


Yet didn’t PHL have more than enough TATL additions to not only make up for those cuts but add more then they had prior? ...
Zurich was cut and came back.
BRU, Glasgow and TLV lost yet replaced by Prague, Budapest, Dubrovnik.
Almost had CMN there too and tried BLQ and TXL.


BLQ was a financial disaster. Loads were often less than 30%. It performed so poorly the route ended about 3-4 weeks before it was planned to.
 
RvA
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 7:56 am

https://airlineweekly.com/2021/05/ameri ... -pandemic/

More focus on DFW and CLT (and I guess LHR) can’t be too surprising. I do wonder what will happen with JFK and LAX, maybe see more things tried out and canned again as they figure out which routes work well in conjunction with partners and their own feed.
 
PSA727
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 8:04 am

sagechan wrote:

JFK has what 4-5 airlines flying to ATH? That's a sign that yields would be lower than PHL not higher. Once PHL gets it's full post covid TATL operation going, hopefully in 2022, it will be able to support it's full connectivity capacity, right now it doesnt have that and JFK has better access to local demand for 2021. JFK does beat a reduced PHL for AA.

JFK has two airlines that will soon be flying to ATH again (one of them being AA). And where do you get that PHL has higher yields than JFK, not just to ATH, but to Europe in general? If PHL produced such great yields, then there wouldn't just be three other carriers at PHL (BA/LH/EI) flying to Europe besides AA. And LH wouldn't have flown their very low-J CityLine 343s on their FRA route after AA stopped flying it, either.

PHL's TATL service isn't going back to pre-Covid levels. And not just because AA pulled the 763s and 752s from their fleet. (BTW, another data point that PHL ain't high-yielding is when AA banished the 763s and 752s from flying to Europe from JFK, they sent those aircraft over to PHL to do TATL flying.) There is a lot more O&D traffic to/from NYC and Europe than Philly and Europe. And between AA's domestic feed at JFK and now B6's domestic feed there, much of that TATL connectivity which was happening at PHL, can now be done at JFK. In fact, I would not be surprised if in 2 or 3 years, AA will have more TATL flying out of ORD than at PHL.
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ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 11:42 am

PSA727 wrote:
sagechan wrote:

JFK has what 4-5 airlines flying to ATH? That's a sign that yields would be lower than PHL not higher. Once PHL gets it's full post covid TATL operation going, hopefully in 2022, it will be able to support it's full connectivity capacity, right now it doesnt have that and JFK has better access to local demand for 2021. JFK does beat a reduced PHL for AA.

JFK has two airlines that will soon be flying to ATH again (one of them being AA). And where do you get that PHL has higher yields than JFK, not just to ATH, but to Europe in general? If PHL produced such great yields, then there wouldn't just be three other carriers at PHL (BA/LH/EI) flying to Europe besides AA. And LH wouldn't have flown their very low-J CityLine 343s on their FRA route after AA stopped flying it, either.

PHL's TATL service isn't going back to pre-Covid levels. And not just because AA pulled the 763s and 752s from their fleet. (BTW, another data point that PHL ain't high-yielding is when AA banished the 763s and 752s from flying to Europe from JFK, they sent those aircraft over to PHL to do TATL flying.) There is a lot more O&D traffic to/from NYC and Europe than Philly and Europe. And between AA's domestic feed at JFK and now B6's domestic feed there, much of that TATL connectivity which was happening at PHL, can now be done at JFK. In fact, I would not be surprised if in 2 or 3 years, AA will have more TATL flying out of ORD than at PHL.


This is all a bit over-stated. AA doesn't have great feed at all at JFK and the B6 partnership is intended to solve for that somewhat. JFK is primarily an O&D station for AA, but to make its international service work, it leverages B6's footprint to more consistently fill its planes to Europe, Deep South America, etc...AA can't do it on its own metal as its costs would be significantly higher and it does not have the slots at JFK to optimize connections on its own. AA pulled the 767-300ER off the last 2 TATL routes that featured it in Q1-2019 (CDG and MAD) and went all 777 out of JFK to Europe and Latin America. The consistency then paid off. Vasu Raja was clear JFK became profitable in Summer 2019 as the operation was streamlined, AA had a consistent product (sort of, minus the variances on 772 Business Class seats), but solid cargo capacity, and Premium Economy across the fleet flying long haul.

PHL worked as a TATL gateway, pre-COVID, because of AA's operation and feed there, and tis dominance. AA has virtually no competition at PHL to Europe other than LH. It is a big market, but some of the traffic there bleeds to EWR. If the B6/AA partnership does pay dividends, I can see AA grow more JFK TATL at the expense of PHL, with routes like VCE and ZRH being moved up to JFK (ZRH actually got moved from JFK to PHL in 2015 but was a consistent JFK flight since it launched in 1987). The A321XLR will also make a few more routes out of JFK compelling for AA assuming the partnership holds. What you will not see is AA flying more TATL out of ORD beyond the seasonal successes it has had with FCO, BCN, and ATH pre-pandemic. AA can't make CDG work consistently year-round out of ORD and almost everything it would fly out of ORD would overlap with UA. AA has hinted the future of its long haul network will be smaller and more focused. I see more Europe from JFK and MIA, less from PHL, more TPAC out of SEA (they have to, with AS providing all that feed), and China other than PVG served solely from DFW. ORD will have LHR year round and the seasonal TATL and that's about it.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 11:45 am

RvA wrote:
https://airlineweekly.com/2021/05/american-plans-a-smaller-more-profitable-international-network-post-pandemic/

More focus on DFW and CLT (and I guess LHR) can’t be too surprising. I do wonder what will happen with JFK and LAX, maybe see more things tried out and canned again as they figure out which routes work well in conjunction with partners and their own feed.


Moderate JFK growth at the expense of PHL on long haul to Europe. LAX long haul will be LHR, SYD, AKL (seasonal), CHC (seasonal, 2-3 a week, and likely to be shelved to 2023), and perhaps a flight to MEL to work with QF once Australia reopens to international travel. HND likely will stay, but HKG gone for good. China will be served exclusively from DFW, with future growth at SEA over LAX.
 
USAirALB
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 1:09 pm

Rookie87 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
PHL is AA's Northeast gateway to Europe. FCO, CDG etc. are not going anywhere. Those are massively successful routes that have been operating year round for decades now.


What are you talking about? PHL TATL capacity was bigger in 2009 (yes, pre-merger) than in 2016. That's not an indication of massively successful, Mr. Hyperbole. The shrinkage suggests it wasn't even meeting threshold margins.

https://airwaysmag.com/industry/america ... kets-2017/


Yet didn’t PHL have more than enough TATL additions to not only make up for those cuts but add more then they had prior? ...
Zurich was cut and came back.
BRU, Glasgow and TLV lost yet replaced by Prague, Budapest, Dubrovnik.
Almost had CMN there too and tried BLQ and TXL.

Indeed.

I'm trying to think how one can say 2009 transatlantic capacity ex PHL was larger. US cut a number of cities from PHL around that time period. MXP/ZRH were both dropped. ARN/OSL were cut too, but I can't remember when. IIRC ARN was cut before OSL. BHX was also attempted during this time and then cut as well.
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maverick4002
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 3:51 pm

How is AA doing to GEO?
 
JohanTally
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 15, 2021 9:31 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
How is AA doing to GEO?

JFK has most of the flights near full some are even oversold, MIA flights are 60-80% full but business class is almost sold out on both MIA and JFK
 
PSA727
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 6:55 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
PHL worked as a TATL gateway, pre-COVID, because of AA's operation and feed there, and tis dominance. AA has virtually no competition at PHL to Europe other than LH. It is a big market, but some of the traffic there bleeds to EWR. If the B6/AA partnership does pay dividends, I can see AA grow more JFK TATL at the expense of PHL, with routes like VCE and ZRH being moved up to JFK (ZRH actually got moved from JFK to PHL in 2015 but was a consistent JFK flight since it launched in 1987). The A321XLR will also make a few more routes out of JFK compelling for AA assuming the partnership holds. What you will not see is AA flying more TATL out of ORD beyond the seasonal successes it has had with FCO, BCN, and ATH pre-pandemic. AA can't make CDG work consistently year-round out of ORD and almost everything it would fly out of ORD would overlap with UA. AA has hinted the future of its long haul network will be smaller and more focused. I see more Europe from JFK and MIA, less from PHL, more TPAC out of SEA (they have to, with AS providing all that feed), and China other than PVG served solely from DFW. ORD will have LHR year round and the seasonal TATL and that's about it.

Last summer, AA had planned to fly from ORD to LHR, CDG, DUB, FCO, VCE, ATH, MAD, BCN, PRG, BUD, and KRK. That would have been the most TATL destinations from an AA hub, after PHL. And a lot more than AA flew out of there over the past several years. But if PHL is so great in the TATL scheme of things, why are many of the routes they still have planned for this summer not expected to start until August 17th? Is that when peak connectivity demand is expected to kick in? Or is it really just because they have yet to make their now-regular covid schedule cuts beyond that date?

With the 763s and 752s pulled from the fleet, PHL TATL flying is not going back to its old self.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 11:45 am

PSA727 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
PHL worked as a TATL gateway, pre-COVID, because of AA's operation and feed there, and tis dominance. AA has virtually no competition at PHL to Europe other than LH. It is a big market, but some of the traffic there bleeds to EWR. If the B6/AA partnership does pay dividends, I can see AA grow more JFK TATL at the expense of PHL, with routes like VCE and ZRH being moved up to JFK (ZRH actually got moved from JFK to PHL in 2015 but was a consistent JFK flight since it launched in 1987). The A321XLR will also make a few more routes out of JFK compelling for AA assuming the partnership holds. What you will not see is AA flying more TATL out of ORD beyond the seasonal successes it has had with FCO, BCN, and ATH pre-pandemic. AA can't make CDG work consistently year-round out of ORD and almost everything it would fly out of ORD would overlap with UA. AA has hinted the future of its long haul network will be smaller and more focused. I see more Europe from JFK and MIA, less from PHL, more TPAC out of SEA (they have to, with AS providing all that feed), and China other than PVG served solely from DFW. ORD will have LHR year round and the seasonal TATL and that's about it.

Last summer, AA had planned to fly from ORD to LHR, CDG, DUB, FCO, VCE, ATH, MAD, BCN, PRG, BUD, and KRK. That would have been the most TATL destinations from an AA hub, after PHL. And a lot more than AA flew out of there over the past several years. But if PHL is so great in the TATL scheme of things, why are many of the routes they still have planned for this summer not expected to start until August 17th? Is that when peak connectivity demand is expected to kick in? Or is it really just because they have yet to make their now-regular covid schedule cuts beyond that date?

With the 763s and 752s pulled from the fleet, PHL TATL flying is not going back to its old self.


Every single one of those ORD flights you mention, except for LHR are seasonal and leisure focused. CDG operates a bit longer. All of it mostly leisure focused. AA has done very well with FCO, ATH, and BCN out of ORD prior to the pandemic and no doubt, will do so again once this recover. No one ever said PHL was great in the TATL scheme of things, It is what AA has to work with and pre-pandemic, worked well. The routes that will restart on or around August 17th are less about AA and more about what's actually possible in Europe, given the much slower distribution of vaccines in Europe vs. the United States. I doubt you will see high demand for Europe this summer, from anywhere. People have already planned their summer vacations and it is still tricky to visit Europe and restrictions haven't been fully lifted (nor have travel restrictions) with the exception of Greece and Croatia.

AA has not had a major year-round TATL footprint at ORD since the 1990s when it flew to ARN, ZRH, TXL (briefly), FRA, MXP, CDG, LHR, MAN, BHX, BRU, etc...

The PHL adjustment doesn't have much to do with the 763 and 752 removals. Prior to COVID it was already determined that the 787 would replace much of the 763/752 flying out of PHL to Europe. As to how and when PHL might see its TATL portfolio recover now very much depends on the success or failure of the B6/AA alliance, which has refocused TATL to JFK, where yields are broadly higher and demand is a better mix of business and leisure.
 
Detroit313
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 1:35 pm

Why is everyone so obsessed with Philadelphia? Even right now as we speak it's got more service to Europe than Chicago, Miami, Charlotte etc.. London, Amsterdam and Dublin. I don't see where those arguments come from.
 
Bigant0408
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 1:56 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Why is everyone so obsessed with Philadelphia? Even right now as we speak it's got more service to Europe than Chicago, Miami, Charlotte etc.. London, Amsterdam and Dublin. I don't see where those arguments come from.


As a person who lives in Philly I kinda agree on this. IMO comparing PHL to JFK doesn’t make sense as both airports are used by AA for different reasons. All three New York airports will always be considered the to go to airports and top priority for routing for airlines especially for O & D in the NEA. Also as of now there still are smaller cities you can’t connect to via JFK on JetBlue or AA that you can in in Philly (Harrisburg, Salisbury, MD, Newport News as examples) granted announcements could happen. PHL will never be on the same level as JFK.
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PSA727
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 5:09 am

Bigant0408 wrote:

As a person who lives in Philly I kinda agree on this. IMO comparing PHL to JFK doesn’t make sense as both airports are used by AA for different reasons. All three New York airports will always be considered the to go to airports and top priority for routing for airlines especially for O & D in the NEA. Also as of now there still are smaller cities you can’t connect to via JFK on JetBlue or AA that you can in in Philly (Harrisburg, Salisbury, MD, Newport News as examples) granted announcements could happen. PHL will never be on the same level as JFK.


But how much TATL demand is there from those very small markets? And keep in mind, in all of these small markets, AA still has to compete with UA and DL for those same TATL customers. There is no IATA rule that all connecting passengers to Europe have to fly on AA. But when you look at where most of the TATL passengers who are connecting at PHL are coming from, AA and B6 pretty much serve those domestic markets out of JFK. And more importantly, when you can board a plane with more O&D passengers on one of these TATL flights, you need fewer connecting passengers to make that flight go out full. So, what domestic cities are we trying so hard to connect to Europe via PHL, again?

And if connecting passengers at JFK onto one of AA's international flights isn't on the company's radar, then why did Vasa Raju last month (when he was announcing the new JFK-DEL route and expanded B6 cooperation) mention the "fastest secure-side connector" at JFK that they will begin operating this summer between T8 and T5? More importantly, if it's all about connections, why is this new route to DEL being flown out of JFK and not PHL?
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 1:54 pm

PSA727 wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:

As a person who lives in Philly I kinda agree on this. IMO comparing PHL to JFK doesn’t make sense as both airports are used by AA for different reasons. All three New York airports will always be considered the to go to airports and top priority for routing for airlines especially for O & D in the NEA. Also as of now there still are smaller cities you can’t connect to via JFK on JetBlue or AA that you can in in Philly (Harrisburg, Salisbury, MD, Newport News as examples) granted announcements could happen. PHL will never be on the same level as JFK.


But how much TATL demand is there from those very small markets? And keep in mind, in all of these small markets, AA still has to compete with UA and DL for those same TATL customers. There is no IATA rule that all connecting passengers to Europe have to fly on AA. But when you look at where most of the TATL passengers who are connecting at PHL are coming from, AA and B6 pretty much serve those domestic markets out of JFK. And more importantly, when you can board a plane with more O&D passengers on one of these TATL flights, you need fewer connecting passengers to make that flight go out full. So, what domestic cities are we trying so hard to connect to Europe via PHL, again?

And if connecting passengers at JFK onto one of AA's international flights isn't on the company's radar, then why did Vasa Raju last month (when he was announcing the new JFK-DEL route and expanded B6 cooperation) mention the "fastest secure-side connector" at JFK that they will begin operating this summer between T8 and T5? More importantly, if it's all about connections, why is this new route to DEL being flown out of JFK and not PHL?


Yields. If AA can successfully scoop up connections from B6 and funnel them onto its own metal to Europe and India (I think the DEL route won't start until well into 2022 at this point) but regardless, there is a premium for bookings out of NYC where demand is strongest, largest, and most consistent. You could argue the same for PHL which has less competition except that PHL is still a smaller market than NYC (not really fair to compare the two anyway as others have pointed out) and AA has QR out of PHL doing a lot of the India flying via DOH once India can reopen, whenever that may be.
 
Bigant0408
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 2:31 pm

PSA727 wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:

As a person who lives in Philly I kinda agree on this. IMO comparing PHL to JFK doesn’t make sense as both airports are used by AA for different reasons. All three New York airports will always be considered the to go to airports and top priority for routing for airlines especially for O & D in the NEA. Also as of now there still are smaller cities you can’t connect to via JFK on JetBlue or AA that you can in in Philly (Harrisburg, Salisbury, MD, Newport News as examples) granted announcements could happen. PHL will never be on the same level as JFK.


But how much TATL demand is there from those very small markets? And keep in mind, in all of these small markets, AA still has to compete with UA and DL for those same TATL customers. There is no IATA rule that all connecting passengers to Europe have to fly on AA. But when you look at where most of the TATL passengers who are connecting at PHL are coming from, AA and B6 pretty much serve those domestic markets out of JFK. And more importantly, when you can board a plane with more O&D passengers on one of these TATL flights, you need fewer connecting passengers to make that flight go out full. So, what domestic cities are we trying so hard to connect to Europe via PHL, again?

And if connecting passengers at JFK onto one of AA's international flights isn't on the company's radar, then why did Vasa Raju last month (when he was announcing the new JFK-DEL route and expanded B6 cooperation) mention the "fastest secure-side connector" at JFK that they will begin operating this summer between T8 and T5? More importantly, if it's all about connections, why is this new route to DEL being flown out of JFK and not PHL?


For the small markets I mentioned I more so was just naming cities I could think of at the moment so you could be right in the sense of how much demand for TATL could be from small markets like them. As for DEL it is all about O & D but if we are comparing in regards to connections then we can also ask why is AA starting the DEL route from JFK instead of CLT or DFW their two strongest performing hubs. Or even BOS which is part of the AA/B6 partnership as well. Overall comparing JFK to PHL has been discussed for years and it's the same repetitive story. JFK will always be the dominate/preferred market
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
Thomaas
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 3:30 pm

I'm not sure why people think that JetBlue will be a game changer for AA at JFK. It is very unlikely that JetBlue will be offering AA heavily discounted codeshare seats on its planes so AA can then fly the passengers internationally. It is more than likely however that AA won't be as price competitive on itineraries where a flight is operate by JetBlue, and thus AA would do better to divert that traffic to other hubs where it also offers a 1-stop option. There is a place in the network for PHL as a connecting airport for TATL flying, the JB partnership only broadens AA's offering in NYC and is unlikely to make JFK a connection powerhouse for that type of flying.
 
sagechan
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 3:35 pm

Thomaas wrote:
I'm not sure why people think that JetBlue will be a game changer for AA at JFK. It is very unlikely that JetBlue will be offering AA heavily discounted codeshare seats on its planes so AA can then fly the passengers internationally. It is more than likely however that AA won't be as price competitive on itineraries where a flight is operate by JetBlue, and thus AA would do better to divert that traffic to other hubs where it also offers a 1-stop option. There is a place in the network for PHL as a connecting airport for TATL flying, the JB partnership only broadens AA's offering in NYC and is unlikely to make JFK a connection powerhouse for that type of flying.


There's an overemphasis on connecting pax on the B6/AA thing, as all the points you make on connections are correct. The bigger play is the combined FF population for O&D out of JFK when earn & burn is implented fully.
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ahj2000
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 4:29 pm

sagechan wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
I'm not sure why people think that JetBlue will be a game changer for AA at JFK. It is very unlikely that JetBlue will be offering AA heavily discounted codeshare seats on its planes so AA can then fly the passengers internationally. It is more than likely however that AA won't be as price competitive on itineraries where a flight is operate by JetBlue, and thus AA would do better to divert that traffic to other hubs where it also offers a 1-stop option. There is a place in the network for PHL as a connecting airport for TATL flying, the JB partnership only broadens AA's offering in NYC and is unlikely to make JFK a connection powerhouse for that type of flying.


There's an overemphasis on connecting pax on the B6/AA thing, as all the points you make on connections are correct. The bigger play is the combined FF population for O&D out of JFK when earn & burn is implented fully.

Yep exactly. It’s more the fact that, if I were an AA or B6 flyer, my options have drastically increased out of BOS and especially JFK. Once FF programs are fixed, it will be awesome for a Mosaic member to get miles for JFK-YYZ or TLV.
Codeshares just help make this more appealing on the website and easier ok practice IMO.
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AmericanAir88
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 2:28 am

How is AA looking at JFK? Are they continuing to increase flights there? LF’s good?

Will JFK-LAS finally come back?
 
sand26391
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 2:58 am

AA has started hiring in Delhi and Bangalore, India.

https://jobs.aa.com/search/?searchby=lo ... olocation=
 
sand26391
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 4:23 pm

This week PHL and London’s Heathrow Airport (LHR) announced the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding which provides a framework for both airports to safely restart travel between Philadelphia and London. “This MOU will be critical to helping our airlines operate successfully on what is our largest transatlantic route,” said Wear.

Link: https://www.phl.org/newsroom/ASD-townhall
 
hiflyeras
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 4:37 pm

AS files with DOT to code-share on AA's upcoming SEA-PVG flights. Apparently there's been no start date announced...maybe AS knows something we don't?

https://simpleflying.com/alaska-america ... codeshare/
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 4:48 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
How is AA looking at JFK? Are they continuing to increase flights there? LF’s good?

Will JFK-LAS finally come back?


July is above 50 flights/day for JFK, so they've returned a significant amount of its pre-covid frequency already.

Having no JFK-LAS is a pain, the B6 flights are an option but the pricing was wacky when I booked LAS-JFK in April.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 7:05 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
AS files with DOT to code-share on AA's upcoming SEA-PVG flights. Apparently there's been no start date announced...maybe AS knows something we don't?

https://simpleflying.com/alaska-america ... codeshare/


SEA-PVG (or SEA-ICN-PVG) is still scheduled but not available for booking. According to AA's route map which uses Cirium, SEA-PVG begins August 4.

AA was intending to begin SEA-PVG via ICN at the end of March - without Alaska's codeshare - but ended up delaying the route just weeks before launch.
Leaving the forums. You may know where to find me.
 
onwFan
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed May 19, 2021 3:26 am

Ishrion wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
AS files with DOT to code-share on AA's upcoming SEA-PVG flights. Apparently there's been no start date announced...maybe AS knows something we don't?

https://simpleflying.com/alaska-america ... codeshare/


SEA-PVG (or SEA-ICN-PVG) is still scheduled but not available for booking. According to AA's route map which uses Cirium, SEA-PVG begins August 4.

AA was intending to begin SEA-PVG via ICN at the end of March - without Alaska's codeshare - but ended up delaying the route just weeks before launch.

I believe AA has rights to only 2x weekly frequencies to China. The other 8x weekly are with UA and DL. Was this ever increased?
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed May 19, 2021 11:21 am

Ishrion wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
AS files with DOT to code-share on AA's upcoming SEA-PVG flights. Apparently there's been no start date announced...maybe AS knows something we don't?

https://simpleflying.com/alaska-america ... codeshare/


SEA-PVG (or SEA-ICN-PVG) is still scheduled but not available for booking. According to AA's route map which uses Cirium, SEA-PVG begins August 4.

AA was intending to begin SEA-PVG via ICN at the end of March - without Alaska's codeshare - but ended up delaying the route just weeks before launch.


My guess is SEA-PVG via ICN means it will get delayed again until at least October. The complexities of flying via ICN probably don't make it worthwhile, AS or not.
 
NZ321
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed May 19, 2021 1:15 pm

Is there any chance of a summary of AA hub routes similar to what has been offered in the UA forum? It was very interesting reading.
Plane mad!
 
FSDan
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed May 19, 2021 8:31 pm

PSA727 wrote:
Last summer, AA had planned to fly from ORD to LHR, CDG, DUB, FCO, VCE, ATH, MAD, BCN, PRG, BUD, and KRK. That would have been the most TATL destinations from an AA hub, after PHL.


Small correction there: ORD-MAD was never scheduled on AA metal. They did/do have JV partner IB on the route, though.
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UpNAWAy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed May 19, 2021 11:15 pm

Just got an e-mail from AAdvantage some seriously good prices to Europe. But they are all very very short travel windows of time like a week or two. They start in October and go through early March. Most cities in Europe for $500-$600. aa.com doesn't seem to show it yet? What is interesting is the European market dates are different for each US Hub.
 
rjbesikof
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 5:49 am

When will DFW-FCO become a COVID tested flight similar to JFK-MXP/FCO?
 
Detroit313
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 20, 2021 4:42 pm

ORD - ATH has been extended for a week until October the 30th. Also, September and October have been upgraded to a 787-9 from a 787-8.
 
AmericanAir88
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 21, 2021 5:40 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
How is AA looking at JFK? Are they continuing to increase flights there? LF’s good?

Will JFK-LAS finally come back?


July is above 50 flights/day for JFK, so they've returned a significant amount of its pre-covid frequency already.

Having no JFK-LAS is a pain, the B6 flights are an option but the pricing was wacky when I booked LAS-JFK in April.


The day JFK-LAS on AA comes back will be the day I achieve AA peace and I go to T8 on day 1.

Glad to see 50 a day. Still have bad flashbacks to the 13/day last August.

Hopefully AA does well at NYC.
 
rjbesikof
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 22, 2021 2:21 am

Detroit313 wrote:
ORD - ATH has been extended for a week until October the 30th. Also, September and October have been upgraded to a 787-9 from a 787-8.


Good response to UA upguaging EWR-ATH to a 772. Is upgrading JFK-ATH to a 77W a possibility at this point?
 
JohanTally
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 22, 2021 2:33 am

rjbesikof wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
ORD - ATH has been extended for a week until October the 30th. Also, September and October have been upgraded to a 787-9 from a 787-8.


Good response to UA upguaging EWR-ATH to a 772. Is upgrading JFK-ATH to a 77W a possibility at this point?

It's unlikely the AA 77W would be scheduled on this route but could sub in if necessary. Their 77Ws are extremely premium heavy and this is a leisure destination that probably doesn't warrant the 52J and 8F seats. The swap would only add about 30 seats.
 
Qantas744er
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 22, 2021 9:57 pm

Two upcoming changes in June ex-MIA

eff 01JUN21 - MIA-GRU-MIA - 77W - 23
eff 03JUN21 - MIA-GRU-MIA - 772 - D

eff 01JUN21 - MIA-EZE-MIA - 772 - 23
eff 03JUN21- MIA-EZE-MIA - 77W - D
 
dcajet
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 25, 2021 1:08 am

Qantas744er wrote:
Two upcoming changes in June ex-MIA

eff 01JUN21 - MIA-GRU-MIA - 77W - 23
eff 03JUN21 - MIA-GRU-MIA - 772 - D

eff 01JUN21 - MIA-EZE-MIA - 772 - 23
eff 03JUN21- MIA-EZE-MIA - 77W - D



EZE´s upgauge and GRU´s downgauge are confirmed.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 25, 2021 1:16 am

rjbesikof wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
ORD - ATH has been extended for a week until October the 30th. Also, September and October have been upgraded to a 787-9 from a 787-8.


Good response to UA upguaging EWR-ATH to a 772. Is upgrading JFK-ATH to a 77W a possibility at this point?


I'd say the chances of AA putting a 77W on JFK-ATH being next to zero unless there is a full flight and irregular operations and a spare 77W on hand at JFK. ATH is leisure heavy, seasonal destination and the 77W is a premium heavy aircraft. Putting the 77W would add a large biz cabin and a first class cabin on a route that likely doesn't warrant all that. UA up gauged EWR-ATH to the 772 from a 767-300ER. Until the pandemic, UA had been using the 764 on EWR-ATH which has more capacity than the 763. Most of UA's 764s remain in LTS, with a handful being re-activated for HNL service (EWR and IAD) later this summer.

AA will use the 77W on domestic, hub to hub markets where it can't fly the plane internationally. TATL at JFK for AA is pretty much standardized around the 772, with the exception of 1 LHR frequency, 2 in normal operating times), one of which rotates at JFK to GRU.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 28, 2021 4:57 pm

Subscription Airline Weekly had an interview with VP network Brian Znotins. Here some highlights.

o Confident of recovery, but AA network must evolve to demand changes
o Without much business demand, some markets must be abandoned or see reduced frequencies.
o Moving capacity into markets that have seen resilient leisure demand.
o Widebodies and their cabins were never meant for domestic but that is the game plan for 2021. Hopefully more tradition uses in 2022/23
o See leisure buckets as sun/mountain and VFR/ethnic
o Some markets like Cancun and Florida booking ahead on 2019 levels
o CLT/DFW hubs strongest, build back banks to eventual 9 at each again.
o Northeast - NY, PHL saw significant downward demand from COVID impacts. DCA in particular hurt due to dependence on business traffic.
o Believe JetBlue alliance will "stabilize" region
o Reorganized ORD hub to focus/feed more leisure demand
o Not much traditional transcon demand, or high-frequency business markets.
o From numbers game clear future international network will be smaller - the retirement of 757, 767 and A330 fleets took out capacity
o Suspect international demand patterns may be different going forward. Will need to wait and see how demand develops
o Latin America demand remains, but restrictions make it difficult to plan. Believe Europe will rebound before Asia.
o Focus on partner hubs such as LHR, but does not mean there wont be AA service also to popular Europe market such as FCO
o Key metric for rebuilding longhail will be financial and routes need to generate acceptable pre-tax margins.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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UPlog
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 29, 2021 4:23 pm

Between what Vasu and Brian say its becoming clear that the future AA longhaul international network will be different and smaller. Quite a change from the aggressive (obviously loss-making) growth pre-COVID.

Though wonder if such a pivot away will turn out to be the right strategy longer term.
I fly your boxes
 
UALFAson
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 29, 2021 5:31 pm

UPlog wrote:
Between what Vasu and Brian say its becoming clear that the future AA longhaul international network will be different and smaller. Quite a change from the aggressive (obviously loss-making) growth pre-COVID.

Though wonder if such a pivot away will turn out to be the right strategy longer term.


Nothing in the airline industry is forever. Look at the battle between the A380 and the B787. The idea that passengers would prefer flying mega jets between megs hubs versus direct point-to-point service turned out to be wrong. That's not going to change long term.

Right now, airlines are focusing on the short term and essentially just surviving. Leisure demand within the U.S. and to Mexico/the Caribbean is surging back faster than the airlines can add service, while high-fare paying domestic biz travelers are much slower to return and long-haul int'l travel isn't attractive to many Americans due to the COVID situation. Airlines have adjusted their route networks accordingly. Once vaccination rates pick up in other countries, demand is going to come back, but it may take another year or two. I am fully confident that something like my new-fave BA BNA-LHR nonstop will be back eventually, as will other similar routes.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
acavpics
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 29, 2021 7:21 pm

I wonder if they will suspend the TLV routes with all of the recent violence in Israel.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 29, 2021 7:43 pm

acavpics wrote:
I wonder if they will suspend the TLV routes with all of the recent violence in Israel.


AA suspended JFK-TLV on May 12 and resumed on May 24, just a few days after the ceasefire.

MIA-TLV is still set to inaugurate in less than a week. Business Class seems to have sold fairy well.
Leaving the forums. You may know where to find me.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 29, 2021 9:18 pm

With huge debt pile and potential losses for years to come, its clear from their statements that are focused on the short term and whatever long haul flying they do should generate positive earnings and not become a burden.

Unfortunately, this means the abandonment of markets and smaller global network, along with reliance of partner hubs (they keep mentioning LHR as an example).
In some ways its the return to the old AA which did not have the broadest global coverage, but instead strongly focused on few key markets like LHR, GRU, NRT, etc
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
chonetsao
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 29, 2021 9:56 pm

My take on what Brian said was that AA is to stick with the network planning basics for the reminder of 2021 and see how things evolve. Bold routes and marginal routes won't resume. A new network strategy is unlikely to form until 2022 or later.

I would describe Brian's words are cautious and set the expectation right at a low level.

Brian also mentions widebody flying domestic. That actually means AA does not see itself short of planes to fly international, but on contrary it has a surplus problem as less long haul for 2021.
 
acavpics
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 30, 2021 1:37 am

Ishrion wrote:
acavpics wrote:
I wonder if they will suspend the TLV routes with all of the recent violence in Israel.


AA suspended JFK-TLV on May 12 and resumed on May 24, just a few days after the ceasefire.

MIA-TLV is still set to inaugurate in less than a week. Business Class seems to have sold fairy well.


Wow. I didn't think that many people would still feel safe traveling to Israel at this time.
 
NZ321
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 30, 2021 3:47 pm

All this talk of back to basics... yet I hear AA have confirmed a start date for CHC and AKL - January 2022. That's hardly back to basics. What do you all make of this?
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airlinermiami
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 30, 2021 3:55 pm

Does anybody know this summer schedule for AA to Madrid?

normally there are on AA metal:
2 daily flights Dallas-Madrid 772/789
1 daily flight Miami -Madrid 772
1 daily flight New York (JFK)-Madrid 772
1 daily flight Philadelphia -Madrid 772/330
1 daily flight Charlotte-Madrid 772/330

Besides the AA metal flights , there are the JV AA/IB flights with Iberia metal ( 2 daily JFK-MAD, 2 daily MIA-MAD, 1 daily BOS-MAD, 1 daily ORD-MAD, 1 daily LAX-MAD, 3 weekly SFO-MAD and the newest 5 weekly service that supposed to begin summer 2020 that never started Washington-Dulles to MAD)

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