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LightChop2Chop
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AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:36 pm

AA is adding both Chetumal, Mexico and San Andres, Colombia. Both very niche markets but but have a lot of potential. I believe this is CTMs first flights to the US. Definitely outside the box thinking for AA.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... e=facebook
 
aa1818
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:44 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
Agreed. I’m nit sure how anyone can realistically consider B6 a major competitive threat to UA on a route like EWR-SFO or EWR-LAX. UA has the frequency and a big of FFs on both sides on either of those routes. Can B6 find success on those routes? Yes, they are both pretty big and there are enough people who aren’t tied into an FF program who will be willing to give them a go. However, let’s not act like UA is now woefully behind on these routes.


Not to overstate it but I think the FF program tie up with AA could be what makes them competitive with UA out of EWR. Lots of AAdvantage members eager to fly B6- perhaps not the premium FFs, but B6 had a broad enough appeal, solid and consistent product and with the boost in access to AAdvantage, it could make them a thorn in US's side.

Cheers,
AA1818
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:45 pm

I've wanted to visit ADZ for a while now but it always involved 2 connections from STL. One stop over MIA, down on Wed back on Sat suits me just fine.
 
IFLYUA767
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Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:24 pm

It sounds like AA is doing this to respond to NK invading their turf at MIA. It makes sense given that AA has ruled MIA for the last thirty years.
 
LightChop2Chop
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Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:36 pm

I looked up CTM and it is not a small city by any means. I wonder how long before UA says "me too". UA was in MID long before AA was and UA loves to serve secondary Mexican cities with RJs.
 
aacun
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Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:53 pm

Not too mention Chetumal is the capital of Quintana Roo……
 
aacun
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Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:54 pm

aacun wrote:
Not to mention that Chetumal is the capital of Quintana Roo……
 
alfa164
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Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:06 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
I've wanted to visit ADZ for a while now but it always involved 2 connections from STL. One stop over MIA, down on Wed back on Sat suits me just fine.


Having visited San Andres Island a few years ago, I would say that is about the perfect length of time to stay. Other than beach time, there isn't much to see or do (although the prominent church located on a hilltop south of San Andres City - you can't miss it - is worth an hour or so): a few good restaurants in the city, a few more along the south-east part of the "ring road", and... will, I am still thinking. Speaking of San Andres City, I wouldn't stay there; it is crowded, noisy, and smells more of exhaust fumes than of tropical freshness. Small hotels in the southeast offer more quiet and better beaches. San Andres is popular with Colombians because it is an easy trip for them, not because it is "paradise found".

All-in-all, it is an interesting island to add to your photo collection - but don't expect to come home with that many great photos. Consider it an R&R trip, and you'll feel fine.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:10 pm

alfa164 wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
I've wanted to visit ADZ for a while now but it always involved 2 connections from STL. One stop over MIA, down on Wed back on Sat suits me just fine.


Having visited San Andres Island a few years ago, I would say that is about the perfect length of time to stay. Other than beach time, there isn't much to see or do (although the prominent church located on a hilltop south of San Andres City - you can't miss it - is worth an hour or so): a few good restaurants in the city, a few more along the south-east part of the "ring road", and... will, I am still thinking. Speaking of San Andres City, I wouldn't stay there; it is crowded, noisy, and smells more of exhaust fumes than of tropical freshness. Small hotels in the southeast offer more quiet and better beaches. San Andres is popular with Colombians because it is an easy trip for them, not because it is "paradise found".

All-in-all, it is an interesting island to add to your photo collection - but don't expect to come home with that many great photos. Consider it an R&R trip, and you'll feel fine.


Thanks for the tips. At this point, all of my trips are R&R so good to know its a decent option for that type of getaway.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:29 pm

alfa164 wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
I've wanted to visit ADZ for a while now but it always involved 2 connections from STL. One stop over MIA, down on Wed back on Sat suits me just fine.


Having visited San Andres Island a few years ago, I would say that is about the perfect length of time to stay. Other than beach time, there isn't much to see or do (although the prominent church located on a hilltop south of San Andres City - you can't miss it - is worth an hour or so): a few good restaurants in the city, a few more along the south-east part of the "ring road", and... will, I am still thinking. Speaking of San Andres City, I wouldn't stay there; it is crowded, noisy, and smells more of exhaust fumes than of tropical freshness. Small hotels in the southeast offer more quiet and better beaches. San Andres is popular with Colombians because it is an easy trip for them, not because it is "paradise found".

All-in-all, it is an interesting island to add to your photo collection - but don't expect to come home with that many great photos. Consider it an R&R trip, and you'll feel fine.


Thanks for the tips. I’m personally an adventure traveler, not a sit on the beach person. Since I love Colombia, I thought about adding ADZ to a future trip. Sounds like it might be better to give it a miss for my personal travel interests.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:51 pm

LightChop2Chop wrote:
UA loves to serve secondary Mexican cities with RJs.


That certainly was the modus operandi of CO. As the single-class planes go away so also will some of the tertiary routes.
 
FlyingSicilian
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Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:59 pm

CTM is interesting. Spent time there years ago for work. Nice enough with access to Northern Belize and parts of the Mayan Riviera up the road but both those locales are accessible via BZE or CZM/CUN . Interesting add. Like MID I would imagine it is the type of route that will only work well from a MIA or IAH on short stage flights and many connections. CTM is not as charming ae MID IMO but a larger city nonetheless.
 
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albspotter
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Re: AA adds MIA-ALB/BTV/MSN/SLC/SYR/TUL

Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:16 pm

I'm very happy to see ALB receive MIA from AA, even it's Sat-only. I hope this also pressures Southwest to restart FLL-ALB because they cut that due to covid, and that route is very convenient for me when I go to my Florida house. Also I hope this also encourages AA to add DFW too, since all the other airports on this list also have it, or going to have it soon.
 
FSDan
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:45 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
It’s a good point. They should fly more domestic wide bodies to help move people. And also so they can keep international crews current and ready to go


AA's flying MIA-LAX and JFK entirely on 777s this summer, as well as having more widebodies than usual between other hubs and to major spokes like LAS and MCO.


FSDan, I know you're a data guy. What was AA's widebody utilization in June vs. narrowbody? What was the avg number of hours flown (flown, not paid for) for widebody pilots vs. narrowbody pilots? Do you really want to argue AA is doing all it can?


I'm not arguing that AA's scheduling the maximum possible; I was just pointing out that they're scheduling significantly more domestic widebodies than they typically do. I suspect that if they thought they could be covering costs and bringing in additional revenue by flying more domestic widebodies, they'd be doing it.
 
32andBelow
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:46 pm

FSDan wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
FSDan wrote:

AA's flying MIA-LAX and JFK entirely on 777s this summer, as well as having more widebodies than usual between other hubs and to major spokes like LAS and MCO.


FSDan, I know you're a data guy. What was AA's widebody utilization in June vs. narrowbody? What was the avg number of hours flown (flown, not paid for) for widebody pilots vs. narrowbody pilots? Do you really want to argue AA is doing all it can?


I'm not arguing that AA's scheduling the maximum possible; I was just pointing out that they're scheduling significantly more domestic widebodies than they typically do. I suspect that if they thought they could be covering costs and bringing in additional revenue by flying more domestic widebodies, they'd be doing it.
it also would have helped a lot with this unnecessary crew shuffle just leaving people qualified in the big equipment
 
FSDan
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Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:06 am

LightChop2Chop wrote:
I looked up CTM and it is not a small city by any means. I wonder how long before UA says "me too". UA was in MID long before AA was and UA loves to serve secondary Mexican cities with RJs.


The more recent trajectory has been UA cutting smaller Mexican markets (SLW, PBC, VSA, CME, etc.) and AA adding them (LTO, LAP, CUL, etc.).
 
USAirKid
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:05 am

32andBelow wrote:
FSDan wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

FSDan, I know you're a data guy. What was AA's widebody utilization in June vs. narrowbody? What was the avg number of hours flown (flown, not paid for) for widebody pilots vs. narrowbody pilots? Do you really want to argue AA is doing all it can?


I'm not arguing that AA's scheduling the maximum possible; I was just pointing out that they're scheduling significantly more domestic widebodies than they typically do. I suspect that if they thought they could be covering costs and bringing in additional revenue by flying more domestic widebodies, they'd be doing it.
it also would have helped a lot with this unnecessary crew shuffle just leaving people qualified in the big equipment


Except AA retired the A330, 767, and 757 as a result of the pandemic. Their union contract requires a rebid for the pilots displaced because of that retirement, which then can cause more displacements, etc.

Even hypothetically if the airline did declare an act of god, didn't get sued by the union over it, what were they supposed to do with the A330, 767 and 757 pilots? Just pay them indefinitely until they decide to retire?

Its really easy to look at these things at the high level and say "oh they should've done x, y, z" without looking at the resulting effects from doing x, y, and z." AA had lots of bad options and no good ones. So they chose a bad option.
 
32andBelow
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:14 am

USAirKid wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
FSDan wrote:

I'm not arguing that AA's scheduling the maximum possible; I was just pointing out that they're scheduling significantly more domestic widebodies than they typically do. I suspect that if they thought they could be covering costs and bringing in additional revenue by flying more domestic widebodies, they'd be doing it.
it also would have helped a lot with this unnecessary crew shuffle just leaving people qualified in the big equipment


Except AA retired the A330, 767, and 757 as a result of the pandemic. Their union contract requires a rebid for the pilots displaced because of that retirement, which then can cause more displacements, etc.

Even hypothetically if the airline did declare an act of god, didn't get sued by the union over it, what were they supposed to do with the A330, 767 and 757 pilots? Just pay them indefinitely until they decide to retire?

Its really easy to look at these things at the high level and say "oh they should've done x, y, z" without looking at the resulting effects from doing x, y, and z." AA had lots of bad options and no good ones. So they chose a bad option.

They never had to displace people off the smallest equipment. Displacing people off 737 or a320 to furlough was just really bad planning.

They could have just had people bid to make the remaining pilot groups bigger
 
USAirKid
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:17 am

trooper508 wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
Woofbite wrote:
I'm not sure top management is in much pain. They raked in hundreds of millions of dollars in advance ticket sales for the bloated schedule. Somehow most of those passengers will be accommodated on something eventually and even refunds are given in future credit. Very little cash will be returned becasue passenges will be given some excuse that makes their expenses non-reimbursable. AA may give them a few thousand advantage miles as a courtesy.

Bad customer service is pretty much immaterial since flights are full anyway and due to single carrier control of most markets, passengers have little hope of avoiding a certain carrier even if they try.



Don't think that top management doesn't pay attention to these sorts of things. They're not going to get down into the operational weeds, but they'll adjust future plans to prevent these sorts of things from happening.

I'd have to go look it up but Doug Parker is on record of saying he has scars from the US-AW system merger that went very badly. Those lessons made it into the US-AA system merger which was designed in a completely different way and went much more smoothly.


But what is top management doing for the pax dealing with the here and now? Relaxing or adjusting policies to help out bc of poor operational planning and selling full schedules they can’t honor? Example: at 4 pm (or so) earlier this week. kid’s 1250am next morning flight was delayed until 7 am. Too late for any other options on AA. She couldn’t take that bc of work. Contacted AA on Twitter bc phone wait is stupid to see if AA could help w other flights or provide a hotel. AA responded that next day was only thing available and, if she wanted a hotel, only airport staff could help so she should make her way to the airport. She was expected to take Uber/train/whatever to airport around 4pm to stand in line, to hope for help, to travel to said hotel. If AA is having so much trouble honoring its ticket sales, why can’t top mgmt offer more flexibility to help out. Asking her to go to airport just to leave is absurd.


This really isn't the domain of top (C-Level) management. C-Level management at a company the size of AA deals with high level strategic planning. What you're talking about is tactical issues. I'm not sure where AA splits responsibilities like this, but that is probably at the Director or VP level.
 
alasizon
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:02 am

32andBelow wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
it also would have helped a lot with this unnecessary crew shuffle just leaving people qualified in the big equipment


Except AA retired the A330, 767, and 757 as a result of the pandemic. Their union contract requires a rebid for the pilots displaced because of that retirement, which then can cause more displacements, etc.

Even hypothetically if the airline did declare an act of god, didn't get sued by the union over it, what were they supposed to do with the A330, 767 and 757 pilots? Just pay them indefinitely until they decide to retire?

Its really easy to look at these things at the high level and say "oh they should've done x, y, z" without looking at the resulting effects from doing x, y, and z." AA had lots of bad options and no good ones. So they chose a bad option.

They never had to displace people off the smallest equipment. Displacing people off 737 or a320 to furlough was just really bad planning.

They could have just had people bid to make the remaining pilot groups bigger


That quite literally isn't how pilot workgroups work, you can't just "make them bigger". AA hasn't had people on furlough for at least five months now (their time on furlough was very limited too) and the displaced people at the bottom are not the ones causing the issue, rather the required shuffle as you reshuffle the 757 and 330 pilots downward.

Everyone that changed equipment needed to be retrained and the 737 is the fleet most behind with training. Both narrowbody groups are critical on staffing because of the constant shuffle, the 737 fleet just didn't get to where it was planned to, whether that was due to sim availability, instructor availability, or whatever other factor. Making it arbitrarily bigger as you wish to do wouldn't have solved any or that, displacements still occur either way and you can't magically usurp how an entire collective bargaining agreement. If I had to guess, the 737 is behind where planned due to the added MAX training and the demand that is placing on qualified sims nationwide.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:54 am

Is this the first time we've seen a US carrier use an E170/175 on an intercontinental route from the lower 48?

.....I'm drawing a blank, attempting to think of a previous example.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:54 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Is this the first time we've seen a US carrier use an E170/175 on an intercontinental route from the lower 48?

.....I'm drawing a blank, attempting to think of a previous example.
AA has sent its E175 to PTY if that counts as intercontinental.

RE: ADZ added to AA network
Don't expect ADZ to be RTB or CZM. It has its attractions but it's not for those looking for holidays on AUA, SXM, PUJ..
Colombians from San Andres have a diaspora in USA (my guess: mostly in NYC - but Brooklyn, not Queens - and with less numbers, in Dade/Broward counties), they'll surely welcome the non-stop from MIA.
No more transfers in BOG or PTY for them.
 
LightChop2Chop
Posts: 248
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:33 pm

Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:02 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Is this the first time we've seen a US carrier use an E170/175 on an intercontinental route from the lower 48?

.....I'm drawing a blank, attempting to think of a previous example.


No AA regularly uses them (or at least used to) to PTY, LIR, BZE, CZM, RTB and others. I would suspect B6 uses them in the Caribbean as well. I am pretty sure some routes out of SJU see them.
 
747fan
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:36 pm

alasizon wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
USAirKid wrote:

Except AA retired the A330, 767, and 757 as a result of the pandemic. Their union contract requires a rebid for the pilots displaced because of that retirement, which then can cause more displacements, etc.

Even hypothetically if the airline did declare an act of god, didn't get sued by the union over it, what were they supposed to do with the A330, 767 and 757 pilots? Just pay them indefinitely until they decide to retire?

Its really easy to look at these things at the high level and say "oh they should've done x, y, z" without looking at the resulting effects from doing x, y, and z." AA had lots of bad options and no good ones. So they chose a bad option.

They never had to displace people off the smallest equipment. Displacing people off 737 or a320 to furlough was just really bad planning.

They could have just had people bid to make the remaining pilot groups bigger


That quite literally isn't how pilot workgroups work, you can't just "make them bigger". AA hasn't had people on furlough for at least five months now (their time on furlough was very limited too) and the displaced people at the bottom are not the ones causing the issue, rather the required shuffle as you reshuffle the 757 and
330 pilots downward.

Everyone that changed equipment needed to be retrained and the 737 is the fleet most behind with training. Both narrowbody groups are critical on staffing because of the constant shuffle, the 737 fleet just didn't get to where it was planned to, whether that was due to sim availability, instructor availability, or whatever other factor. Making it arbitrarily bigger as you wish to do wouldn't have solved any or that, displacements still occur either way and you can't magically usurp how an entire collective bargaining agreement. If I had to guess, the 737 is behind where planned due to the added MAX training and the demand that is placing on qualified sims nationwide.

To add to the above, there's a number of 737 crews that aren't MAX-qualified yet. This limits flexibility with these airplanes, as they're basically confined to only MIA hub network flying. For example, if they're "subbed" in place of a 737NG into the DFW hub network rather than their usual MIA out-and-backs, there's a decent chance a flight that it's "subbing" on would be rostered by a non-MAX qualified CA and/or FO. Comparatively, now United's 737-MAX9's seem to move around the system more rather than being confined to, say, IAH hub flying.
I'd imagine that the additional "MAX qual" training is way behind where it should be now at AA as a result of all of the displacements and the associated training shuffle. This likely isn't much an issue anymore at United, who didn't furlough anybody/had fewer displacements.
 
MAH4546
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:03 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Is this the first time we've seen a US carrier use an E170/175 on an intercontinental route from the lower 48?

.....I'm drawing a blank, attempting to think of a previous example.


No, AA has used them to Barranquilla. But ADZ is in North America, off the coast of Honduras.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15632
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:36 pm

747fan wrote:
alasizon wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
They never had to displace people off the smallest equipment. Displacing people off 737 or a320 to furlough was just really bad planning.

They could have just had people bid to make the remaining pilot groups bigger


That quite literally isn't how pilot workgroups work, you can't just "make them bigger". AA hasn't had people on furlough for at least five months now (their time on furlough was very limited too) and the displaced people at the bottom are not the ones causing the issue, rather the required shuffle as you reshuffle the 757 and
330 pilots downward.

Everyone that changed equipment needed to be retrained and the 737 is the fleet most behind with training. Both narrowbody groups are critical on staffing because of the constant shuffle, the 737 fleet just didn't get to where it was planned to, whether that was due to sim availability, instructor availability, or whatever other factor. Making it arbitrarily bigger as you wish to do wouldn't have solved any or that, displacements still occur either way and you can't magically usurp how an entire collective bargaining agreement. If I had to guess, the 737 is behind where planned due to the added MAX training and the demand that is placing on qualified sims nationwide.

To add to the above, there's a number of 737 crews that aren't MAX-qualified yet. This limits flexibility with these airplanes, as they're basically confined to only MIA hub network flying. For example, if they're "subbed" in place of a 737NG into the DFW hub network rather than their usual MIA out-and-backs, there's a decent chance a flight that it's "subbing" on would be rostered by a non-MAX qualified CA and/or FO. Comparatively, now United's 737-MAX9's seem to move around the system more rather than being confined to, say, IAH hub flying.
I'd imagine that the additional "MAX qual" training is way behind where it should be now at AA as a result of all of the displacements and the associated training shuffle. This likely isn't much an issue anymore at United, who didn't furlough anybody/had fewer displacements.


Dumb question that I should know the answer to . . . UA always planned to have more MAXes and to get them faster than AA, right?
 
silentbob
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Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:05 pm

Is there something in the contract that requires them to do the training for equipment changes in a specific order? I'm just trying to understand if there is a way to mitigate situations like this in the future.
 
esnidxam
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:31 pm

Out of curiosity, does anyone know why AA doesn't fly direct from ORD-MEX? MEX is the 5th busiest Intl route from ORD and ORD is the 6th busiest Intl route from MEX and it is currently served by UA, AM, VB, and Y4. While this seems crowded, you would think AA would want a piece of the action.
 
LightChop2Chop
Posts: 248
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:33 pm

Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:45 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Is this the first time we've seen a US carrier use an E170/175 on an intercontinental route from the lower 48?

.....I'm drawing a blank, attempting to think of a previous example.


No, AA has used them to Barranquilla. But ADZ is in North America, off the coast of Honduras.



Not to nitpick, but ADZ is off the coast of Nicaragua not Honduras. The islands of Honduras would be the Bay Islands (Roatan, Utila, Guanaja etc)
 
DualQual
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:15 pm

silentbob wrote:
Is there something in the contract that requires them to do the training for equipment changes in a specific order? I'm just trying to understand if there is a way to mitigate situations like this in the future.


I don’t know specific to AA but some shops have pay rate protection built in if they train out of seniority order. If you got displaced from a widebody to a narrow body with the commensurate pay cut and they train you before someone junior to you that also got displaced you’d be pay protected until the junior person gets trained. There’s nuances to that but that’s the cliff notes version.
 
capejet
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:08 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:47 pm

Well the operational issues continued on the very busy travel day of Monday July 5. Southwest canceled 52 flights, Jetblue 23, Allegiant 20, United 12, American 7, Delta 4. Long lines at airports, frustrated travelers. The media once again citing a pilot shortage at AA. I guess that must be why Southwest is canceling all those flights.
 
asuflyer
Posts: 894
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:56 pm

AA has loaded PHL-KIN in the GDS, 3 times weekly with an A321 from Dec 5th. It was not mentioned in any press release, so it may be announced with other routes at a later point.

esnidxam wrote:
Out of curiosity, does anyone know why AA doesn't fly direct from ORD-MEX? MEX is the 5th busiest Intl route from ORD and ORD is the 6th busiest Intl route from MEX and it is currently served by UA, AM, VB, and Y4. While this seems crowded, you would think AA would want a piece of the action.


AA has flown ORD-MEX on and off in the past. MEX slots are valuable and I believe the MEX slot for ORD went to an additional flight to MIA. MIA-MEX is currently 6x daily. A couple years ago it was only 2-3x daily. AA cannot compete on price sensitive pax as VB and Y4 have gained lots of marketshare in the US-MEX markets especially at ORD and MDW.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:57 pm

esnidxam wrote:
Out of curiosity, does anyone know why AA doesn't fly direct from ORD-MEX? MEX is the 5th busiest Intl route from ORD and ORD is the 6th busiest Intl route from MEX and it is currently served by UA, AM, VB, and Y4. While this seems crowded, you would think AA would want a piece of the action.


That is surprising! AA certainly did fly ORD-MEX in the past, as I do remember arriving into ORD from EGE on a 757 that was then heading to MEX for its next flight. UA also flew to MEX back then, but with a smaller A320 that continued on to SJO (with fifth freedom traffic rights between the Mexican and Costa Rican capitals). I do not believe there were any Mexican LCC operators on the ORD-MEX in those days, but MX would have been a formidable competitor.

Given AA's growing operation to Mexico in recent years - the airline has surpassed UA as the leading carrier to the country - it is quite surprising that AA has yet to resume ORD-MEX. Then again, MEX seems to be quite challenging for all U.S. carriers. UA can make ORD-MEX work, but threw in the towel on LAX-MEX. B6 and NK couldn't make MEX work at all!
 
448205
Posts: 2323
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:58 pm

silentbob wrote:
Is there something in the contract that requires them to do the training for equipment changes in a specific order? I'm just trying to understand if there is a way to mitigate situations like this in the future.



Not in specific order, but you are paid at your current positions pay rate until you complete training and become qualified on the new airplane.

The airline obviously has preferences on who the train first (WB to NB) and would rather continue to pay at current rate (NB to WB). Throw in the airplane specific staffing issues (737) and simulator time shortages, the picture gets cloudier.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 6180
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:06 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
silentbob wrote:
Is there something in the contract that requires them to do the training for equipment changes in a specific order? I'm just trying to understand if there is a way to mitigate situations like this in the future.



Not in specific order, but you are paid at your current positions pay rate until you complete training and become qualified on the new airplane.

The airline obviously has preferences on who the train first (WB to NB) and would rather continue to pay at current rate (NB to WB). Throw in the airplane specific staffing issues (737) and simulator time shortages, the picture gets cloudier.

The best part is all the salaries were bailed out
 
Airlines0613
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:06 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:38 pm

Something tells me AA will respond to UA's NEXT product. It seems like AA is the only legacy left out. With UA and DL having a superior product, AA will be left behind. The only way it can compete is by pricing its seats slightly cheaper. I think it's a matter of when not if over reinstalling AVOD and etc. on their aircraft. Their first and economy class domestic/short-haul products are dull at best.
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 14626
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Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:19 pm

LightChop2Chop wrote:
No AA regularly uses them (or at least used to) to PTY, LIR, BZE, CZM, RTB

None of which are intercontinental routings from anywhere in the Lower 48, as the question clearly asks.............


MAH4546 wrote:
No, AA has used them to Barranquilla.

Thanks!


MAH4546 wrote:
But ADZ is in North America

I know, but CTM isn't.
That's the one I was looking at.



2travel2know2 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Is this the first time we've seen a US carrier use an E170/175 on an intercontinental route from the lower 48?

.....I'm drawing a blank, attempting to think of a previous example.
AA has sent its E175 to PTY if that counts as intercontinental.

Regardless as to whether one is using the European or N.American approaches to geography: that wouldn't count either way.

Panama is squarely within North America.
 
altairF28
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:41 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:21 pm

Looks like all of the cancellations for today are due to Elsa-not sure if that means AA has turned the corner/right-sized their schedule or if there were enough of those to prevent any other flights from being scrubbed.
 
LightChop2Chop
Posts: 248
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:33 pm

Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:30 pm

LAX772LR wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:
But ADZ is in North America

I know, but CTM isn't.
That's the one I was looking at.

.


Chetumal, MX (CTM) is very much in North America
 
lpdal
Posts: 1997
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:49 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:40 pm

We’re hiring 200 FSA’s here in MIA to help with the increased operation.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5302
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: AA adds MIA-ALB/BTV/MSN/SLC/SYR/TUL

Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:34 pm

BTV-SYR-ALB-ROC are such similar airports. Of course numbers vary but where the people are heading is very similar. I think miami will work
 
HanCholo
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: AA adds MIA-ALB/BTV/MSN/SLC/SYR/TUL

Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:22 pm

PA12 wrote:
ELP please.


Ditto! At least Saturday service to ELP! That would be great!
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
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Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:34 pm

LightChop2Chop wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:

MAH4546 wrote:
But ADZ is in North America

I know, but CTM isn't.
That's the one I was looking at.

.


Chetumal, MX (CTM) is very much in North America

Read that wrong. Switch the two.
 
N649DL
Posts: 1269
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: AA Facing Summer Cancellations and Crewing Issues

Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:48 pm

alasizon wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
USAirKid wrote:

Except AA retired the A330, 767, and 757 as a result of the pandemic. Their union contract requires a rebid for the pilots displaced because of that retirement, which then can cause more displacements, etc.

Even hypothetically if the airline did declare an act of god, didn't get sued by the union over it, what were they supposed to do with the A330, 767 and 757 pilots? Just pay them indefinitely until they decide to retire?

Its really easy to look at these things at the high level and say "oh they should've done x, y, z" without looking at the resulting effects from doing x, y, and z." AA had lots of bad options and no good ones. So they chose a bad option.

They never had to displace people off the smallest equipment. Displacing people off 737 or a320 to furlough was just really bad planning.

They could have just had people bid to make the remaining pilot groups bigger


That quite literally isn't how pilot workgroups work, you can't just "make them bigger". AA hasn't had people on furlough for at least five months now (their time on furlough was very limited too) and the displaced people at the bottom are not the ones causing the issue, rather the required shuffle as you reshuffle the 757 and 330 pilots downward.

Everyone that changed equipment needed to be retrained and the 737 is the fleet most behind with training. Both narrowbody groups are critical on staffing because of the constant shuffle, the 737 fleet just didn't get to where it was planned to, whether that was due to sim availability, instructor availability, or whatever other factor. Making it arbitrarily bigger as you wish to do wouldn't have solved any or that, displacements still occur either way and you can't magically usurp how an entire collective bargaining agreement. If I had to guess, the 737 is behind where planned due to the added MAX training and the demand that is placing on qualified sims nationwide.


Regardless, I think AA already misses these aircraft in more than a few ways. They already got to the point where they retained the youngest 757s in their fleet, the A330s had new interiors (and not terribly old), and the 763s had a good thing going pre-COVID by being based out of PHL to Europe.
 
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Rookie87
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:33 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:55 pm

Airlines0613 wrote:
Something tells me AA will respond to UA's NEXT product. It seems like AA is the only legacy left out. With UA and DL having a superior product, AA will be left behind. The only way it can compete is by pricing its seats slightly cheaper. I think it's a matter of when not if over reinstalling AVOD and etc. on their aircraft. Their first and economy class domestic/short-haul products are dull at best.


I’m curious, with AA’s focus away from AVOD and the focus on high speed wifi, do UA and DL offer wifi as fast as AA’s upgraded wifi on these non AVOD flights?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26737
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: AA adds MIA-CTM & ADZ

Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:50 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
LightChop2Chop wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:


I know, but CTM isn't.
That's the one I was looking at.

.


Chetumal, MX (CTM) is very much in North America

Read that wrong. Switch the two.


Yeah but San Andres, Colombia is also in North America. It's not part of South America, it's a Caribbean island off the coast of Central America.
 
dbo861
Posts: 1084
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 2:20 am

Re: AA adds MIA-ALB/BTV/MSN/SLC/SYR/TUL

Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:53 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
As of November 2, 2021, American will be increasing frequencies from Miami to the following destinations:

Baltimore (BWI) is increasing from 2x daily to 3x daily
Cleveland (CLE) is increasing from 2x daily to 3x daily
Detroit (DTW) is increasing from 2x daily to 3x daily
Guatemala City (GUA) is increasing from 2x daily to 3x daily
Jacksonville (JAX) is increasing from 5x daily to 7x daily
Nashville (BNA) is increasing from 3x daily to 5x daily
New Orleans (MSY) is increasing from 4x daily to 5x daily
Orlando (MCO) is increasing from 6x daily to 10x daily
Raleigh-Durham (RDU) is increasing from 4x daily to 5x daily
San Juan (SJU) is increasing from 5x daily to 6x daily
San Jose (SJO) is increasing from 2x daily to 3x daily
San Pedro Sula (SAP) is increasing from 2x daily to 3x daily
Santo Domingo (SDQ) is increasing from 4x daily to 6x daily
Tampa (TPA) increasing from 5x daily to 8x daily


Also, DSM is going daily through the winter. It has only been twice weekly on weekends.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:57 am

All NZ (LAX/DFW-AKL, LAX-CHC) routes pulled for W21. Travel to New Zealand is not rebounding anytime soon. Hoping the Dallas and South Island routes inaugurate in 2022.
https://crankyflier.com/2021/07/06/amer ... ntry-spar/
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1881
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:46 am

Airlines0613 wrote:
Something tells me AA will respond to UA's NEXT product. It seems like AA is the only legacy left out. With UA and DL having a superior product, AA will be left behind. The only way it can compete is by pricing its seats slightly cheaper. I think it's a matter of when not if over reinstalling AVOD and etc. on their aircraft. Their first and economy class domestic/short-haul products are dull at best.


I sure hope you're right. I have a feeling Dougie thought his old pal Kirby would be more than happy to join him in their race to the bottom. So this has to really have thrown Dougie for a loop.

Then again I wouldn't put it past Dougie to cut and cheapen the product even more. Who cares how low the fares are, Dougie will find a way to make the costs even lower.

AA just doesn't know what it wants to be. On one hand they invest in Flagship Lounges but on the other, they actively rip PTVs out and STILL fly A321s on transcons without seat power, much less PTVs! What a joke.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7275
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:26 am

9w748capt wrote:
Airlines0613 wrote:
Something tells me AA will respond to UA's NEXT product. It seems like AA is the only legacy left out. With UA and DL having a superior product, AA will be left behind. The only way it can compete is by pricing its seats slightly cheaper. I think it's a matter of when not if over reinstalling AVOD and etc. on their aircraft. Their first and economy class domestic/short-haul products are dull at best.


I sure hope you're right. I have a feeling Dougie thought his old pal Kirby would be more than happy to join him in their race to the bottom. So this has to really have thrown Dougie for a loop.

Then again I wouldn't put it past Dougie to cut and cheapen the product even more. Who cares how low the fares are, Dougie will find a way to make the costs even lower.

AA just doesn't know what it wants to be. On one hand they invest in Flagship Lounges but on the other, they actively rip PTVs out and STILL fly A321s on transcons without seat power, much less PTVs! What a joke.


Heck, I went to Alaska this past weekend on American. Paid for First Class (easy way to rack up EQMs to initially earn elite status). Flew DFW-FAI on the 321neo. Had the full Casper bedding on the daytime flight up to FAI. Was nice - the "lunch" was a joke, but the seat was nowhere near as bad as people in FB Travel Groups that I'm in made it sound like.

Last night flew ANC-ORD on the 787. Paid a good bit more for that flight over the 321 from FAI - wanted the lieflat. No pillow, no blanket - just my jacket and a t-shirt from my carryon as a makshift pillow. Still got five hours of sleep, but wondering why I paid $800 ow for that flight. Doug and Company need to cut the joke of non-service on flights like this where the northbound (daytime) flights get the better product.

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