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tphuang
Posts: 6637
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:31 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

They did start FLL 2 x. daily in April and it has stuck around. I don't see much more Florida growth outside of MIA for them at JFK, as B6 has it covered. Same for the Caribbean. Some further routes possible but not a full out rebuild of what AA had at JFK previously. I think LAS will probably return eventually, but SEA/SAN in my view will eventually be code-shared with AS if they can get that approved and I see AS moving into T8 eventually as T7 closes down.


AS should really move. T7 needs to close also. It just never seems to, same with T2. Where would UA go however?

LAS should return, it always did well. I think maybe SXM, AUA, and NAS would be good add-backs for AA out of JFK also.


T7 will close in the next 2 years, once BA moves out and into T8 when the T8 expansions are completed and ultimately T7 will be demolished to make way for the new T6. Good question on UA. Seems like T4 or T1 are the only options once T7 closes. T1 would require some modifications for domestic arrivals to bypass FIS but once T1 redevelopment begins, then what?

AA I think flies to SXM seasonally. AUA and NAS are flown on AA from LGA.


That's assuming ua got permant slot. Which I don't think they have gotten yet. And slot waiver is probably ending by November.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:35 pm

tphuang wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:

AS should really move. T7 needs to close also. It just never seems to, same with T2. Where would UA go however?

LAS should return, it always did well. I think maybe SXM, AUA, and NAS would be good add-backs for AA out of JFK also.


T7 will close in the next 2 years, once BA moves out and into T8 when the T8 expansions are completed and ultimately T7 will be demolished to make way for the new T6. Good question on UA. Seems like T4 or T1 are the only options once T7 closes. T1 would require some modifications for domestic arrivals to bypass FIS but once T1 redevelopment begins, then what?

AA I think flies to SXM seasonally. AUA and NAS are flown on AA from LGA.


That's assuming ua got permant slot. Which I don't think they have gotten yet. And slot waiver is probably ending by November.


They'll be slots available to them. Not all slots will be restored to use by November and extensions are very likely going to be granted further. The only thing that stands in the way of UA operating at JFK is a gate and a terminal once T7 is closed.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6637
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:58 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
tphuang wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

T7 will close in the next 2 years, once BA moves out and into T8 when the T8 expansions are completed and ultimately T7 will be demolished to make way for the new T6. Good question on UA. Seems like T4 or T1 are the only options once T7 closes. T1 would require some modifications for domestic arrivals to bypass FIS but once T1 redevelopment begins, then what?

AA I think flies to SXM seasonally. AUA and NAS are flown on AA from LGA.


That's assuming ua got permant slot. Which I don't think they have gotten yet. And slot waiver is probably ending by November.


They'll be slots available to them. Not all slots will be restored to use by November and extensions are very likely going to be granted further. The only thing that stands in the way of UA operating at JFK is a gate and a terminal once T7 is closed.

I don't get this. I thought airlines need to use 80% of their slots or lose them. And if there is no slot waivers, then those temporary slots are not in use anymore. This is not a lhr situation where airlines are only obligated to use 50% of their slots. Even if temporary slots get extended another 6 months, ua will still have to get permanent slots. You can't use temporary slots forever.
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:22 pm

tphuang wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
tphuang wrote:

That's assuming ua got permant slot. Which I don't think they have gotten yet. And slot waiver is probably ending by November.


They'll be slots available to them. Not all slots will be restored to use by November and extensions are very likely going to be granted further. The only thing that stands in the way of UA operating at JFK is a gate and a terminal once T7 is closed.

I don't get this. I thought airlines need to use 80% of their slots or lose them. And if there is no slot waivers, then those temporary slots are not in use anymore. This is not a lhr situation where airlines are only obligated to use 50% of their slots. Even if temporary slots get extended another 6 months, ua will still have to get permanent slots. You can't use temporary slots forever.


It's not that far fetched to think that some international airlines won't be back, or at least not flying to the extent they were pre-covid. At least a small amount of slots should become available, I would think. Whether or not these slots will be at a suitable time for UA's schedule is another matter.
 
dcajet
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:34 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
How is AA doing at JFK? Have they added back more flights and destinations?


They're up to around 50+ flights a day. LHR is now 2 x daily and has been for a few weeks. The rest of the TATL seasonals are all running, except for BCN, though not all TATL and year-round frequencies are daily (CDG, FCO). Frequencies raised a while back on SFO and LAX. AUS and DFW resumed. All 3 Colombia routes have launched, though with some heavy operational issues for a time, though that now seems to have somewhat stabilized. ATH and TLV go out full, but that's not always a sign of profitability.

SCL has launched. GIG is supposed to return in the winter, as of now. GRU is running and has been for some time, on the 77W but not daily.

As of now, DEL is planned to launch in October, though seems a bit optimistic. JFK-SNA launched on the 321T. All MIA frequencies are on the 77W or 772 including 2 77Ws scheduled within 90 minutes of each other.

There was light detail in the earnings report last month that the B6 partnership seems to be helping but it remains early days.


EZE is running too, but with odd schedules due to caps in the number of pax arrivals imposed by Argentina. Some flights operate as cargo inbound to EZE but return to JFK (and DFW) with paxs. MIA is the only station that has both inbound and outbound pax services to EZE every day.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4731
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 11:41 am

dcajet wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
How is AA doing at JFK? Have they added back more flights and destinations?


They're up to around 50+ flights a day. LHR is now 2 x daily and has been for a few weeks. The rest of the TATL seasonals are all running, except for BCN, though not all TATL and year-round frequencies are daily (CDG, FCO). Frequencies raised a while back on SFO and LAX. AUS and DFW resumed. All 3 Colombia routes have launched, though with some heavy operational issues for a time, though that now seems to have somewhat stabilized. ATH and TLV go out full, but that's not always a sign of profitability.

SCL has launched. GIG is supposed to return in the winter, as of now. GRU is running and has been for some time, on the 77W but not daily.

As of now, DEL is planned to launch in October, though seems a bit optimistic. JFK-SNA launched on the 321T. All MIA frequencies are on the 77W or 772 including 2 77Ws scheduled within 90 minutes of each other.

There was light detail in the earnings report last month that the B6 partnership seems to be helping but it remains early days.


EZE is running too, but with odd schedules due to caps in the number of pax arrivals imposed by Argentina. Some flights operate as cargo inbound to EZE but return to JFK (and DFW) with paxs. MIA is the only station that has both inbound and outbound pax services to EZE every day.


Yep. JFK-EZE as AA 953 is cancelled most days. It flies as a cargo operation as you said, from JFK, and returns with pax. When it first resumed, it operated with pax from JFK but the change in pax arrivals imposed by Argentina changed that.
 
AmericanAir88
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:34 pm

Does AA have plans to add back its JFK flights that have been cut or never operated? For example, AA never got the change to fly JFK-GCM (Was supposed to start in Late Spring 2020), as it was added in January 2020 if I recall. As for Eagle, do they still plan JFK-Cleveland?

At least AA has been adding places back such as: SNA, DFW, and ORD. AUS and FLL are nice additions also.

I know I talk about LAS a lot, but it still baffles me on why it has not been added back. AA used to fly LAS 2x daily, then reduced to 1x for a little bit. I think they operated Flight 969 both ways. SEA, I understand more because it was cut before the pandemic
 
tphuang
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:54 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
Does AA have plans to add back its JFK flights that have been cut or never operated? For example, AA never got the change to fly JFK-GCM (Was supposed to start in Late Spring 2020), as it was added in January 2020 if I recall. As for Eagle, do they still plan JFK-Cleveland?

At least AA has been adding places back such as: SNA, DFW, and ORD. AUS and FLL are nice additions also.

I know I talk about LAS a lot, but it still baffles me on why it has not been added back. AA used to fly LAS 2x daily, then reduced to 1x for a little bit. I think they operated Flight 969 both ways. SEA, I understand more because it was cut before the pandemic


As part of their T-8 remodeling, they are getting rid of the RJ concourse in T-8. That's a good clue on the future of T-8, a lot of widebody actions from AA and other T-8 airlines, probably minimal RJ operation.

I think we should have a better idea of what their steady state looks like once they finalize their Nov/December schedule since their partner B6 is acting like that's when the slot wiaver is going away. That should give us a good clue on how much AA intends to fly long term.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:04 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
Does AA have plans to add back its JFK flights that have been cut or never operated? For example, AA never got the change to fly JFK-GCM (Was supposed to start in Late Spring 2020), as it was added in January 2020 if I recall. As for Eagle, do they still plan JFK-Cleveland?

At least AA has been adding places back such as: SNA, DFW, and ORD. AUS and FLL are nice additions also.

I know I talk about LAS a lot, but it still baffles me on why it has not been added back. AA used to fly LAS 2x daily, then reduced to 1x for a little bit. I think they operated Flight 969 both ways. SEA, I understand more because it was cut before the pandemic


American Eagle service at JFK consisted of the following routes (I think this was the complete list, pre-pandemic).

Baltimore, Boston, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus–Glenn, Indianapolis, Montréal–Trudeau, Nashville, Norfolk, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Raleigh/Durham, Richmond, Toronto–Pearson, Washington–National

AA's strategy in the NY Area involves pulling down 50 seat jets from remaining markets, and a lot of these flights were operated on ERJ-135/140s. The T8 airside concourse housing the Eagle operation is being repurposed for larger jets. I think some routes may come back on CRJ-700/900s and E175s but a lot may end up aligning with the B6 partnership. A lot of these routes existed as JFK was considered a "cornerstone" hub pre-merger and lived on until COVID19, though a number were cut in 2019 temporarily as part of a slot waiver AA received in conjunction with runway rehabilitation which was completed since. The waiver was extended once and maybe a second time as the pandemic took hold.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:07 pm

tphuang wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Does AA have plans to add back its JFK flights that have been cut or never operated? For example, AA never got the change to fly JFK-GCM (Was supposed to start in Late Spring 2020), as it was added in January 2020 if I recall. As for Eagle, do they still plan JFK-Cleveland?

At least AA has been adding places back such as: SNA, DFW, and ORD. AUS and FLL are nice additions also.

I know I talk about LAS a lot, but it still baffles me on why it has not been added back. AA used to fly LAS 2x daily, then reduced to 1x for a little bit. I think they operated Flight 969 both ways. SEA, I understand more because it was cut before the pandemic


As part of their T-8 remodeling, they are getting rid of the RJ concourse in T-8. That's a good clue on the future of T-8, a lot of widebody actions from AA and other T-8 airlines, probably minimal RJ operation.

I think we should have a better idea of what their steady state looks like once they finalize their Nov/December schedule since their partner B6 is acting like that's when the slot wiaver is going away. That should give us a good clue on how much AA intends to fly long term.


They're not getting rid of it, and there is no RJ concourse. The RJ operation was housed in a section of the air side terminal and it is being redeveloped to accommodate larger jets. I would agree though that it is very unlikely AA will use a lot of RJ's at JFK other than maybe E175s and some CRJs in the future. A lot of the traditional Eagle markets overlap with B6 (though not all). I can see some reinstated and others repurposed for mainline operations to other destinations as slots shake out.
 
Qantas59
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:41 pm

Does anyone know what became of the MIA-PBM Paramaribo proposed service?
 
dfw88
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:04 pm

Qantas59 wrote:
Does anyone know what became of the MIA-PBM Paramaribo proposed service?


Currently scheduled to start on 7 September, though likely subject to change.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 7:45 pm

I have a question about AA's Philadelphia TATL network. The PHL-ATH route reopens on 8/17 and PHL-FCO is as of now, resuming in October. Both routes will be flown with 787-8. Pre-pandemic, the 787 was already slated to play a greater role in PHL ops and it makes sense to see these flights scheduled to fly on 787s as the A330s that previously flew the PHL-FCO/ATH have been retired, along with the entire AA A330-200/300 fleet.

I've always wondered why PHL to Europe flights on AA are scheduled later in the evening than say, comparable flights out of IAD, EWR, and JFK. Obviously, slots on the arrival end are a factor, and I get that, but curious if the rationale is also to further maximize connections at PHL and aircraft utilization.
 
MLIAA
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:00 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
I have a question about AA's Philadelphia TATL network. The PHL-ATH route reopens on 8/17 and PHL-FCO is as of now, resuming in October. Both routes will be flown with 787-8. Pre-pandemic, the 787 was already slated to play a greater role in PHL ops and it makes sense to see these flights scheduled to fly on 787s as the A330s that previously flew the PHL-FCO/ATH have been retired, along with the entire AA A330-200/300 fleet.

I've always wondered why PHL to Europe flights on AA are scheduled later in the evening than say, comparable flights out of IAD, EWR, and JFK. Obviously, slots on the arrival end are a factor, and I get that, but curious if the rationale is also to further maximize connections at PHL and aircraft utilization.



I would venture to guess that there is less O&D and more TATL connections in PHL than maybe EWR or IAD, and that’s why it would be later. I have no evidence for this though, just a hunch.
 
usairways85
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:17 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
I have a question about AA's Philadelphia TATL network. The PHL-ATH route reopens on 8/17 and PHL-FCO is as of now, resuming in October. Both routes will be flown with 787-8. Pre-pandemic, the 787 was already slated to play a greater role in PHL ops and it makes sense to see these flights scheduled to fly on 787s as the A330s that previously flew the PHL-FCO/ATH have been retired, along with the entire AA A330-200/300 fleet.

I've always wondered why PHL to Europe flights on AA are scheduled later in the evening than say, comparable flights out of IAD, EWR, and JFK. Obviously, slots on the arrival end are a factor, and I get that, but curious if the rationale is also to further maximize connections at PHL and aircraft utilization.

Prior to COVID, AA's primary TA departure bank at PHL was 6-7pm...is this what you are considering later in the evening? There were then a handful of departures 7:30-8:30pm and then the remaining departures ~9:30pm (DUB, LHR, MAN, SNN, EDI, and a few others). Some of this may also have been related to gate space, especially as the number of TA flights grew in the few years prior to 2020.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:23 pm

usairways85 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
I have a question about AA's Philadelphia TATL network. The PHL-ATH route reopens on 8/17 and PHL-FCO is as of now, resuming in October. Both routes will be flown with 787-8. Pre-pandemic, the 787 was already slated to play a greater role in PHL ops and it makes sense to see these flights scheduled to fly on 787s as the A330s that previously flew the PHL-FCO/ATH have been retired, along with the entire AA A330-200/300 fleet.

I've always wondered why PHL to Europe flights on AA are scheduled later in the evening than say, comparable flights out of IAD, EWR, and JFK. Obviously, slots on the arrival end are a factor, and I get that, but curious if the rationale is also to further maximize connections at PHL and aircraft utilization.

Prior to COVID, AA's primary TA departure bank at PHL was 6-7pm...is this what you are considering later in the evening? There were then a handful of departures 7:30-8:30pm and then the remaining departures ~9:30pm (DUB, LHR, MAN, SNN, EDI, and a few others). Some of this may also have been related to gate space, especially as the number of TA flights grew in the few years prior to 2020.


Yeah, I noticed ATH departure time is 7:45pm and historically, the bulk of PHL TATL departures historically (for AA) were in the post 8:30pm time slot, and that's where I was going with my question. Your answer is helpful.
 
9w748capt
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:38 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
Rookie87 wrote:
twosoun wrote:
I reluctantly flew them bc they were the only carrier who flew in HVN. Now that they have stopped, I’ll cancel my AA credit card after next year. However, I got to fly them pretty regularly this past year.

Its clear that they continuously disinvest in their products compared to other legacy carriers. While their soft products might not differ that much between different airlines, their hard products are where it really hurts AA. No mood lighting, cabin densification (to be fair isnt unique to AA, but them ripping out IFE was a shocker), their overall PR during COVID was pretty irksome. At least they do include a carry on bag with b.e. fares (ahem United).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


AA not investing in their premium product is untrue though.
Flagship dining differentiates them from UA and DL as a step above the general lounge experience.
Meals had been getting improved a lot as well as their wine offerings
Domestic first got fixes based on consumer feedback.
Mood lighting on most of their fleet (every 737, most 321s almost done, except 319/320)

Honestly these “arguments” are ridiculous at this point considering how many times various posters keep pointing out that these accusations are based on individual experiences that don’t take into account any actual facts and get regurgitated ad nauseum.

A fresh meal box is offered on flights and tray foods with hot meals being reintroduced starting next week I believe.
The PR for COVID was fine from “my” point of view. I personally thought it was ridiculous to have people packed in the airport and then have an empty middle seat as if that made a difference (my opinion).


But you don't understand! ;)

Mood lighting and an IFE from the dinosaurs age is clearly more important.

Each to their own but reading some posts on here frankly gives me the giggles :rotfl:

They've just added lounge access to Hawaii in F and those are things that are far more important IMO.


Good lord - this nonsense again? IFE from the dinosaurs? So built-in seatback screens are automatically stone age? Again, posters like you just don't get it. Do you stay at a Four Seasons for the most up to date flat screen TV? No, but the fact that most Four Seasons (I imagine) are equipped with nice flat screen TVs contributes to their reputation as a premium brand, does it not?

And hilariously, lounge access for F passengers to Hawaii is limited to flights on 777s and 787s which have lie-flat seats! Guess what else AA's 777s and 787s have in all classes? Seatback screens!!!
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 276
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:14 pm

9w748capt wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
Rookie87 wrote:

AA not investing in their premium product is untrue though.
Flagship dining differentiates them from UA and DL as a step above the general lounge experience.
Meals had been getting improved a lot as well as their wine offerings
Domestic first got fixes based on consumer feedback.
Mood lighting on most of their fleet (every 737, most 321s almost done, except 319/320)

Honestly these “arguments” are ridiculous at this point considering how many times various posters keep pointing out that these accusations are based on individual experiences that don’t take into account any actual facts and get regurgitated ad nauseum.

A fresh meal box is offered on flights and tray foods with hot meals being reintroduced starting next week I believe.
The PR for COVID was fine from “my” point of view. I personally thought it was ridiculous to have people packed in the airport and then have an empty middle seat as if that made a difference (my opinion).


But you don't understand! ;)

Mood lighting and an IFE from the dinosaurs age is clearly more important.

Each to their own but reading some posts on here frankly gives me the giggles :rotfl:

They've just added lounge access to Hawaii in F and those are things that are far more important IMO.


Good lord - this nonsense again? IFE from the dinosaurs? So built-in seatback screens are automatically stone age? Again, posters like you just don't get it. Do you stay at a Four Seasons for the most up to date flat screen TV? No, but the fact that most Four Seasons (I imagine) are equipped with nice flat screen TVs contributes to their reputation as a premium brand, does it not?

And hilariously, lounge access for F passengers to Hawaii is limited to flights on 777s and 787s which have lie-flat seats! Guess what else AA's 777s and 787s have in all classes? Seatback screens!!!


Well, seatback IFE IS a bit like promoting the petrol engine in the age of the electric car. There's that thing called progress. Most people do travel with their devices these days, and if it's done well, streaming offers a lot more content than clunky IFEs. Getting rid of them also makes the plane lighter, which saves cost, and allows airlines to focus on other aspects of the customer experience, like lounge access.

Not sure the Four Seasons example is that great an analogy. You don't stay there for the size of the TV screens. It's a very small part of Four Seasons' appeal.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1840
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 11:14 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:

But you don't understand! ;)

Mood lighting and an IFE from the dinosaurs age is clearly more important.

Each to their own but reading some posts on here frankly gives me the giggles :rotfl:

They've just added lounge access to Hawaii in F and those are things that are far more important IMO.


Good lord - this nonsense again? IFE from the dinosaurs? So built-in seatback screens are automatically stone age? Again, posters like you just don't get it. Do you stay at a Four Seasons for the most up to date flat screen TV? No, but the fact that most Four Seasons (I imagine) are equipped with nice flat screen TVs contributes to their reputation as a premium brand, does it not?

And hilariously, lounge access for F passengers to Hawaii is limited to flights on 777s and 787s which have lie-flat seats! Guess what else AA's 777s and 787s have in all classes? Seatback screens!!!


Well, seatback IFE IS a bit like promoting the petrol engine in the age of the electric car. There's that thing called progress. Most people do travel with their devices these days, and if it's done well, streaming offers a lot more content than clunky IFEs. Getting rid of them also makes the plane lighter, which saves cost, and allows airlines to focus on other aspects of the customer experience, like lounge access.

Not sure the Four Seasons example is that great an analogy. You don't stay there for the size of the TV screens. It's a very small part of Four Seasons' appeal.


Ok so let me ask this - if most people travel with their devices which in your opinion are so infinitely superior to built-in IFE not only in quality but ease of use - then why doesn't Dougie rip out seatback screens from First and Business class? Why not Premium Economy too? Those passengers are presumably more well off and would be even more likely to have a fancy IPad or Galaxy S7, right? So why won't Dougie rip out IFE from premium classes on widebodies? Why aren't you on here promoting that AA does exactly that? Especially if you're worried about the environment all of a sudden, wouldn't it make sense to rip out IFE from your largest, heaviest planes that fly the furthest?

And of course no one stays at Four Seasons for the flat screen TV. But guess what, no one picks a business class product specifically for the PTV either. Somehow this is lost on you though.
 
jbs2886
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 11:23 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
Getting rid of them also makes the plane lighter, which saves cost, and allows airlines to focus on other aspects of the customer experience, like lounge access.


I highly doubt that getting rid of PTVs has an impact on focusing on "lounge access."

But keep preaching that PTVs are stone-age when UA and DL have doubled down and we are hearing AA may start adding them back - they clearly think customers want those stone-age things.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1840
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Aug 09, 2021 11:58 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
Getting rid of them also makes the plane lighter, which saves cost, and allows airlines to focus on other aspects of the customer experience, like lounge access.


I highly doubt that getting rid of PTVs has an impact on focusing on "lounge access."

But keep preaching that PTVs are stone-age when UA and DL have doubled down and we are hearing AA may start adding them back - they clearly think customers want those stone-age things.


Exactly! And the poster conveniently neglects to mention that AA is including lounge access only for 1st class on lie-flat customers. F pax from LAX to Hawaii on AA's shiny new 32Qs not only don't get lounge access, but get to stream IFE on their fancy devices rather than deal with the inconvenience of a 1750s seatback screen!
 
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itripreport
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:11 am

BangersAndMash wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:

But you don't understand! ;)

Mood lighting and an IFE from the dinosaurs age is clearly more important.

Each to their own but reading some posts on here frankly gives me the giggles :rotfl:

They've just added lounge access to Hawaii in F and those are things that are far more important IMO.


Good lord - this nonsense again? IFE from the dinosaurs? So built-in seatback screens are automatically stone age? Again, posters like you just don't get it. Do you stay at a Four Seasons for the most up to date flat screen TV? No, but the fact that most Four Seasons (I imagine) are equipped with nice flat screen TVs contributes to their reputation as a premium brand, does it not?

And hilariously, lounge access for F passengers to Hawaii is limited to flights on 777s and 787s which have lie-flat seats! Guess what else AA's 777s and 787s have in all classes? Seatback screens!!!


Well, seatback IFE IS a bit like promoting the petrol engine in the age of the electric car. There's that thing called progress. Most people do travel with their devices these days, and if it's done well, streaming offers a lot more content than clunky IFEs. Getting rid of them also makes the plane lighter, which saves cost, and allows airlines to focus on other aspects of the customer experience, like lounge access.

Not sure the Four Seasons example is that great an analogy. You don't stay there for the size of the TV screens. It's a very small part of Four Seasons' appeal.


Lets clear something out here, first off, tablet IFE systems are the norm now, AA said they HAD to choose between high speed Wifi or screens, meanwhile DL UA and B6 are both offering BOTH.
Second, retrofitted A321s, and non pre-sky interior Oasis 737s have mood lighting installed. These features differiencate a premium product from a low cost product. For the average traveller, what does AA offer as a domestic premium over low cost carriers? DECENT legroom? As a former Platinum Pro member for years now, its sad to see the that the New american age only lasted for 3 years, yes they have a wonderful if not one of my favorite wide body business and economy, but as for the narrow bodies, there's no premium or advantage or competitive product over United and Delta. I mean cmon even Main Cabin Extra is down to 4 rows on the 737s.

Plus, I for one, and nearly everyone I know who travels, would rather enjoy being able to watch a movie on a seatback screen AND be able to work on their computer/browse their device. They even offer the densest 737-800 in North America for a 2 class product. And that's even after revolt from advantage members stopped them from going even denser back in 2017.

You also mention airlines focusing on other aspects such as lounge access, how can delta offer seatback IFE and hot/cold food options at all their sky clubs (even smaller outstations like JAX and SAN), meanwhile at every admirals club I've entered I'm supposed to feel lucky if they got the guac cart out or if they got undercooked penne pasta available. Where is the incentive for me as a miami based passenger to continue flying american over choosing Delta or United?
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2661
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:02 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
I have a question about AA's Philadelphia TATL network. The PHL-ATH route reopens on 8/17 and PHL-FCO is as of now, resuming in October. Both routes will be flown with 787-8. Pre-pandemic, the 787 was already slated to play a greater role in PHL ops and it makes sense to see these flights scheduled to fly on 787s as the A330s that previously flew the PHL-FCO/ATH have been retired, along with the entire AA A330-200/300 fleet.

I've always wondered why PHL to Europe flights on AA are scheduled later in the evening than say, comparable flights out of IAD, EWR, and JFK. Obviously, slots on the arrival end are a factor, and I get that, but curious if the rationale is also to further maximize connections at PHL and aircraft utilization.

Don't most people prefer later departures to Europe?

That's one of the things that's always bothered me about UA's IAD hub. Outside of the additional late-night flights to LHR and Germany, plus a few seasonal departures that depart late (LIS, EDI, DUB), almost all UA IAD-Europe flights departure between 5pm-6pm. IMO that's a horrible schedule...you depart at the end of the business day (essentially can't get a full day of work in) and by the time one is ready to sleep (7 hours later) you are already at the top of descent.

Whenever I would fly to Europe for work I would always chose to take UA/LH's 10pm departures to LHR/FRA/MUC and connect. Sure, I would arrive to my final destination around lunch time, but I wouldn't be jet lagged and I was refreshed enough to have a functional day of work.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4261
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:12 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
usairways85 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
I have a question about AA's Philadelphia TATL network. The PHL-ATH route reopens on 8/17 and PHL-FCO is as of now, resuming in October. Both routes will be flown with 787-8. Pre-pandemic, the 787 was already slated to play a greater role in PHL ops and it makes sense to see these flights scheduled to fly on 787s as the A330s that previously flew the PHL-FCO/ATH have been retired, along with the entire AA A330-200/300 fleet.

I've always wondered why PHL to Europe flights on AA are scheduled later in the evening than say, comparable flights out of IAD, EWR, and JFK. Obviously, slots on the arrival end are a factor, and I get that, but curious if the rationale is also to further maximize connections at PHL and aircraft utilization.

Prior to COVID, AA's primary TA departure bank at PHL was 6-7pm...is this what you are considering later in the evening? There were then a handful of departures 7:30-8:30pm and then the remaining departures ~9:30pm (DUB, LHR, MAN, SNN, EDI, and a few others). Some of this may also have been related to gate space, especially as the number of TA flights grew in the few years prior to 2020.


Yeah, I noticed ATH departure time is 7:45pm and historically, the bulk of PHL TATL departures historically (for AA) were in the post 8:30pm time slot, and that's where I was going with my question. Your answer is helpful.

This was the S18 departure breakdown I posted on a different board.

6/25/18 PHL TA departures by hour
4:00 - 5:00
ATH, MUC
5:00 - 6:00
MAD, DUB (EI), FRA (LH)
6:00 - 7:00
FRA, FCO, ZRH, VCE, BCN, LHR (BA), AMS, PRG, BUD
7:00 - 8:00
LHR (AA), GLA
8:00 - 9:00
LHR (AA), DOH (QR)
9:00 - 10:00
CDG, LHR (BA), DUB, SNN, LIS
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1840
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:46 am

itripreport wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
9w748capt wrote:

Good lord - this nonsense again? IFE from the dinosaurs? So built-in seatback screens are automatically stone age? Again, posters like you just don't get it. Do you stay at a Four Seasons for the most up to date flat screen TV? No, but the fact that most Four Seasons (I imagine) are equipped with nice flat screen TVs contributes to their reputation as a premium brand, does it not?

And hilariously, lounge access for F passengers to Hawaii is limited to flights on 777s and 787s which have lie-flat seats! Guess what else AA's 777s and 787s have in all classes? Seatback screens!!!


Well, seatback IFE IS a bit like promoting the petrol engine in the age of the electric car. There's that thing called progress. Most people do travel with their devices these days, and if it's done well, streaming offers a lot more content than clunky IFEs. Getting rid of them also makes the plane lighter, which saves cost, and allows airlines to focus on other aspects of the customer experience, like lounge access.

Not sure the Four Seasons example is that great an analogy. You don't stay there for the size of the TV screens. It's a very small part of Four Seasons' appeal.


Lets clear something out here, first off, tablet IFE systems are the norm now, AA said they HAD to choose between high speed Wifi or screens, meanwhile DL UA and B6 are both offering BOTH.
Second, retrofitted A321s, and non pre-sky interior Oasis 737s have mood lighting installed. These features differiencate a premium product from a low cost product. For the average traveller, what does AA offer as a domestic premium over low cost carriers? DECENT legroom? As a former Platinum Pro member for years now, its sad to see the that the New american age only lasted for 3 years, yes they have a wonderful if not one of my favorite wide body business and economy, but as for the narrow bodies, there's no premium or advantage or competitive product over United and Delta. I mean cmon even Main Cabin Extra is down to 4 rows on the 737s.

Plus, I for one, and nearly everyone I know who travels, would rather enjoy being able to watch a movie on a seatback screen AND be able to work on their computer/browse their device. They even offer the densest 737-800 in North America for a 2 class product. And that's even after revolt from advantage members stopped them from going even denser back in 2017.

You also mention airlines focusing on other aspects such as lounge access, how can delta offer seatback IFE and hot/cold food options at all their sky clubs (even smaller outstations like JAX and SAN), meanwhile at every admirals club I've entered I'm supposed to feel lucky if they got the guac cart out or if they got undercooked penne pasta available. Where is the incentive for me as a miami based passenger to continue flying american over choosing Delta or United?


PREACH! Only four rows of MCE on the Oasis 737s, of which 2 are exit rows and 1 is the bulkhead. So honestly I would count that as one legitimate row of MCE. Contrast that the UA's new 7M8s that have over 50 E+ seats I believe?

I don't think Dougie ever thought that Kirby would go this direction at UA and reverse course as far as IFE. I have a feeling there have been many heated meetings at AA about their boneheaded decision to rip out IFE. Who knows if anything will come of it, but I have a feeling they realize now that they can't just do nothing. But as others have alluded to, that's what really triggers us loyal AA flyers who've stuck with them for so long. This US Airways regime is only reactionary. They have zero interest in actually investing in the domestic product and consistently just cut and cut to see what they can get away with. Legacy AA sure wasn't perfect (who can forget NGBC being out of date literally the second it was installed), but it sure as heck beat this current regime.
 
Airlines0613
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:06 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:25 am

9w748capt wrote:
itripreport wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:

Well, seatback IFE IS a bit like promoting the petrol engine in the age of the electric car. There's that thing called progress. Most people do travel with their devices these days, and if it's done well, streaming offers a lot more content than clunky IFEs. Getting rid of them also makes the plane lighter, which saves cost, and allows airlines to focus on other aspects of the customer experience, like lounge access.

Not sure the Four Seasons example is that great an analogy. You don't stay there for the size of the TV screens. It's a very small part of Four Seasons' appeal.


Lets clear something out here, first off, tablet IFE systems are the norm now, AA said they HAD to choose between high speed Wifi or screens, meanwhile DL UA and B6 are both offering BOTH.
Second, retrofitted A321s, and non pre-sky interior Oasis 737s have mood lighting installed. These features differiencate a premium product from a low cost product. For the average traveller, what does AA offer as a domestic premium over low cost carriers? DECENT legroom? As a former Platinum Pro member for years now, its sad to see the that the New american age only lasted for 3 years, yes they have a wonderful if not one of my favorite wide body business and economy, but as for the narrow bodies, there's no premium or advantage or competitive product over United and Delta. I mean cmon even Main Cabin Extra is down to 4 rows on the 737s.

Plus, I for one, and nearly everyone I know who travels, would rather enjoy being able to watch a movie on a seatback screen AND be able to work on their computer/browse their device. They even offer the densest 737-800 in North America for a 2 class product. And that's even after revolt from advantage members stopped them from going even denser back in 2017.

You also mention airlines focusing on other aspects such as lounge access, how can delta offer seatback IFE and hot/cold food options at all their sky clubs (even smaller outstations like JAX and SAN), meanwhile at every admirals club I've entered I'm supposed to feel lucky if they got the guac cart out or if they got undercooked penne pasta available. Where is the incentive for me as a miami based passenger to continue flying american over choosing Delta or United?


PREACH! Only four rows of MCE on the Oasis 737s, of which 2 are exit rows and 1 is the bulkhead. So honestly I would count that as one legitimate row of MCE. Contrast that the UA's new 7M8s that have over 50 E+ seats I believe?

I don't think Dougie ever thought that Kirby would go this direction at UA and reverse course as far as IFE. I have a feeling there have been many heated meetings at AA about their boneheaded decision to rip out IFE. Who knows if anything will come of it, but I have a feeling they realize now that they can't just do nothing. But as others have alluded to, that's what really triggers us loyal AA flyers who've stuck with them for so long. This US Airways regime is only reactionary. They have zero interest in actually investing in the domestic product and consistently just cut and cut to see what they can get away with. Legacy AA sure wasn't perfect (who can forget NGBC being out of date literally the second it was installed), but it sure as heck beat this current regime.

This is actually one of the reasons why I am deciding to switch to UA and do a mileage program challenge. I’m currently at Platinum Pro and have decided not to continue to Executive Platinum in order to achieve 1K status in UA. They have better availability when it comes to premium seating and they have IFE in First Class, which is one of the main reasons why I am switching. Plus, with United Next being rolled out to all their narrow body aircraft, they will be far better than AA and a tad bit better than DL.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4731
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:20 am

USAirALB wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
I have a question about AA's Philadelphia TATL network. The PHL-ATH route reopens on 8/17 and PHL-FCO is as of now, resuming in October. Both routes will be flown with 787-8. Pre-pandemic, the 787 was already slated to play a greater role in PHL ops and it makes sense to see these flights scheduled to fly on 787s as the A330s that previously flew the PHL-FCO/ATH have been retired, along with the entire AA A330-200/300 fleet.

I've always wondered why PHL to Europe flights on AA are scheduled later in the evening than say, comparable flights out of IAD, EWR, and JFK. Obviously, slots on the arrival end are a factor, and I get that, but curious if the rationale is also to further maximize connections at PHL and aircraft utilization.

Don't most people prefer later departures to Europe?

That's one of the things that's always bothered me about UA's IAD hub. Outside of the additional late-night flights to LHR and Germany, plus a few seasonal departures that depart late (LIS, EDI, DUB), almost all UA IAD-Europe flights departure between 5pm-6pm. IMO that's a horrible schedule...you depart at the end of the business day (essentially can't get a full day of work in) and by the time one is ready to sleep (7 hours later) you are already at the top of descent.

Whenever I would fly to Europe for work I would always chose to take UA/LH's 10pm departures to LHR/FRA/MUC and connect. Sure, I would arrive to my final destination around lunch time, but I wouldn't be jet lagged and I was refreshed enough to have a functional day of work.


It depends. TATL departures from the East Coast begin as early as mid-afternoon. LH had a flight out of JFK to FRA that departed at 4:00pm at one time. Obviously, some of this is to assure transfers at European hubs. Peak departures are usually the 7pm to 8pm window. Late afternoon/early evening departures can be brutal as they don't allow much sleep, even in the premium cabin unless you are gifted. Some people like a full day at their destination. It all depends. I just noticed that AA traditionally has banked PHL TATL departures later. At JFK, they are mostly bunched around 4:45pm to 7:20pm. Different gateways and strategies and slots are also likely part of it, I know. I wasn't looking to compare. I was curious as to why PHL was later.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1840
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:10 pm

Airlines0613 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
itripreport wrote:

Lets clear something out here, first off, tablet IFE systems are the norm now, AA said they HAD to choose between high speed Wifi or screens, meanwhile DL UA and B6 are both offering BOTH.
Second, retrofitted A321s, and non pre-sky interior Oasis 737s have mood lighting installed. These features differiencate a premium product from a low cost product. For the average traveller, what does AA offer as a domestic premium over low cost carriers? DECENT legroom? As a former Platinum Pro member for years now, its sad to see the that the New american age only lasted for 3 years, yes they have a wonderful if not one of my favorite wide body business and economy, but as for the narrow bodies, there's no premium or advantage or competitive product over United and Delta. I mean cmon even Main Cabin Extra is down to 4 rows on the 737s.

Plus, I for one, and nearly everyone I know who travels, would rather enjoy being able to watch a movie on a seatback screen AND be able to work on their computer/browse their device. They even offer the densest 737-800 in North America for a 2 class product. And that's even after revolt from advantage members stopped them from going even denser back in 2017.

You also mention airlines focusing on other aspects such as lounge access, how can delta offer seatback IFE and hot/cold food options at all their sky clubs (even smaller outstations like JAX and SAN), meanwhile at every admirals club I've entered I'm supposed to feel lucky if they got the guac cart out or if they got undercooked penne pasta available. Where is the incentive for me as a miami based passenger to continue flying american over choosing Delta or United?


PREACH! Only four rows of MCE on the Oasis 737s, of which 2 are exit rows and 1 is the bulkhead. So honestly I would count that as one legitimate row of MCE. Contrast that the UA's new 7M8s that have over 50 E+ seats I believe?

I don't think Dougie ever thought that Kirby would go this direction at UA and reverse course as far as IFE. I have a feeling there have been many heated meetings at AA about their boneheaded decision to rip out IFE. Who knows if anything will come of it, but I have a feeling they realize now that they can't just do nothing. But as others have alluded to, that's what really triggers us loyal AA flyers who've stuck with them for so long. This US Airways regime is only reactionary. They have zero interest in actually investing in the domestic product and consistently just cut and cut to see what they can get away with. Legacy AA sure wasn't perfect (who can forget NGBC being out of date literally the second it was installed), but it sure as heck beat this current regime.

This is actually one of the reasons why I am deciding to switch to UA and do a mileage program challenge. I’m currently at Platinum Pro and have decided not to continue to Executive Platinum in order to achieve 1K status in UA. They have better availability when it comes to premium seating and they have IFE in First Class, which is one of the main reasons why I am switching. Plus, with United Next being rolled out to all their narrow body aircraft, they will be far better than AA and a tad bit better than DL.


I'm also on the verge of status matching! I'm just a lowly GLD so I know AA couldn't care less, but I'm sick and tired of giving this company my hard earned money, however little it is in the grand scheme.

I'd gotten sick of them anyway but until recently it was "well AA is much bigger out of OKC and UA's product is just as bad so why bother" - but that calculus seems to have changed!
 
AmericanAir88
Posts: 277
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:31 pm

Why is AA the only legacy that doesn’t give upgrade list access to its lowest earned status (aka gold) Members? The flight has to be under 500 miles?

UA and DL give them out to everyone of earned status in order of tier.

Also, I miss the OAG and Seatback Tvs on AA. I get the reason for removal, but they could have always found cost-saving or other improvements instead of scrapping the tv idea. Bluetooth, airplay, etc could have been explored.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6637
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 10, 2021 8:33 pm

Actually, AA probably has the most generous upgrade program and it doesn't have that FCM program that screws over the elites.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1840
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:54 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
Why is AA the only legacy that doesn’t give upgrade list access to its lowest earned status (aka gold) Members? The flight has to be under 500 miles?

UA and DL give them out to everyone of earned status in order of tier.

Also, I miss the OAG and Seatback Tvs on AA. I get the reason for removal, but they could have always found cost-saving or other improvements instead of scrapping the tv idea. Bluetooth, airplay, etc could have been explored.


Not sure what you mean? AA Gold members can definitely upgrade domestic flights, they just have to use 500-mile "stickers" to do so. Personally I think that's better system than complimentary upgrades for everyone. Makes you "earn" the upgrade in a sense. Not every GLD or PLT will request an upgrade on every flight, which makes it more likely that if you've earned or bought 500-mile upgrades, that you'll be able to use them. Upgrades are a rarity anyway so I doubt it factors much into people's decisions.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2661
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:18 pm

9w748capt wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Why is AA the only legacy that doesn’t give upgrade list access to its lowest earned status (aka gold) Members? The flight has to be under 500 miles?

UA and DL give them out to everyone of earned status in order of tier.

Also, I miss the OAG and Seatback Tvs on AA. I get the reason for removal, but they could have always found cost-saving or other improvements instead of scrapping the tv idea. Bluetooth, airplay, etc could have been explored.


Not sure what you mean? AA Gold members can definitely upgrade domestic flights, they just have to use 500-mile "stickers" to do so. Personally I think that's better system than complimentary upgrades for everyone. Makes you "earn" the upgrade in a sense. Not every GLD or PLT will request an upgrade on every flight, which makes it more likely that if you've earned or bought 500-mile upgrades, that you'll be able to use them. Upgrades are a rarity anyway so I doubt it factors much into people's decisions.

I think most GLDs/PLTs actually like the current sticker system better than the system UA/DL have in place.

When I used to be GLD, I would be upgraded far more than those who had corresponding status on UA or DL. As you said, not every GLD or PLT will request an upgrade on every flight, saving upgrades for those who actually want to use a sticker. Have you ever seen how long upgrade lists are on elite heavy sectors on UA? That will never happen on AA.

When I was GLD (two years ago) I would say upgrade chances were actually fairly good for entry-level status. I've been upgraded on routes such as LAX-JFK/IAD/DCA, DCA-DFW/ORD/MIA, all of which I would consider "hard" upgrades.
 
AmericanAir88
Posts: 277
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:20 pm

9w748capt wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Why is AA the only legacy that doesn’t give upgrade list access to its lowest earned status (aka gold) Members? The flight has to be under 500 miles?

UA and DL give them out to everyone of earned status in order of tier.

Also, I miss the OAG and Seatback Tvs on AA. I get the reason for removal, but they could have always found cost-saving or other improvements instead of scrapping the tv idea. Bluetooth, airplay, etc could have been explored.


Not sure what you mean? AA Gold members can definitely upgrade domestic flights, they just have to use 500-mile "stickers" to do so. Personally I think that's better system than complimentary upgrades for everyone. Makes you "earn" the upgrade in a sense. Not every GLD or PLT will request an upgrade on every flight, which makes it more likely that if you've earned or bought 500-mile upgrades, that you'll be able to use them. Upgrades are a rarity anyway so I doubt it factors much into people's decisions.


Never thought of it that way. The stickers have to be earned by flying AA more. I definitely do see the benefits of the stickers as it won't produce the 3 page long lists that DL and UA can provide.. Does the 500-mile sticker put a GLD on the list or does it guarantee an upgrade? I can definitely see the 500-mile sticker being useful on a JFK-LAX flight.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1840
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:31 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Why is AA the only legacy that doesn’t give upgrade list access to its lowest earned status (aka gold) Members? The flight has to be under 500 miles?

UA and DL give them out to everyone of earned status in order of tier.

Also, I miss the OAG and Seatback Tvs on AA. I get the reason for removal, but they could have always found cost-saving or other improvements instead of scrapping the tv idea. Bluetooth, airplay, etc could have been explored.


Not sure what you mean? AA Gold members can definitely upgrade domestic flights, they just have to use 500-mile "stickers" to do so. Personally I think that's better system than complimentary upgrades for everyone. Makes you "earn" the upgrade in a sense. Not every GLD or PLT will request an upgrade on every flight, which makes it more likely that if you've earned or bought 500-mile upgrades, that you'll be able to use them. Upgrades are a rarity anyway so I doubt it factors much into people's decisions.


Never thought of it that way. The stickers have to be earned by flying AA more. I definitely do see the benefits of the stickers as it won't produce the 3 page long lists that DL and UA can provide.. Does the 500-mile sticker put a GLD on the list or does it guarantee an upgrade? I can definitely see the 500-mile sticker being useful on a JFK-LAX flight.


Correct, you earn 4 "stickers" per 12.5K EQMs. So you can earn them via flying AA or any oneworld partner. Depends on your flying patterns of course, but the awesome thing was that a trip like CX premium economy to Asia could earn 20K+ EQMs, so it is possible to earn stickers relatively quickly. No, they don't guarantee anything, all stickers do is enable you to request a "complimentary" upgrade (even if you don't have enough stickers, you can still request an upgrade, you just won't be able to check in until you've bought the stickers necessary). This link will answer most of your questions: https://www.aa.com/i18n/aadvantage-prog ... grades.jsp

Haha, using 500-mile upgrades for a flight like JFK-LAX is like winning the lottery. In normal times, don't count on really ever being able to upgrade especially ex-DFW. Then again on routes like OKC-LAX, we've never missed an upgrade.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6637
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:44 pm

I bet aa gives more upgrade opportunities on a321t than ua and dl on their premium transcon flights.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26666
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:27 am

AmericanAir88 wrote:
Why is AA the only legacy that doesn’t give upgrade list access to its lowest earned status (aka gold) Members? The flight has to be under 500 miles?

UA and DL give them out to everyone of earned status in order of tier.


Everybody gets upgrades. Lower tier elites have to use “stickers” - which are both earned for free and can be purchased - to upgrade.

This is one of the best features of the program because it means lower tier elites have a much better chance of securing upgrades they want.

Further more, AA does not separate its “premium” transcons (JFK-SFO/LAX, MIA-LAX) nor any Hawaii flights from its domestic upgrade program like others.

For all of AA’s many flaws, its elite upgrade system is not one of them. It by far the best and most generous of the three majors (though I would argue the most generous overall is Alaska).

When I was PLAT my upgrade percentage on LAXJFK was 100%. I NEVER missed an upgrade over seven years and I flew that route a lot.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6637
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:34 am

MAH4546 wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Why is AA the only legacy that doesn’t give upgrade list access to its lowest earned status (aka gold) Members? The flight has to be under 500 miles?

UA and DL give them out to everyone of earned status in order of tier.


Everybody gets upgrades. Lower tier elites have to use “stickers” - which are both earned for free and can be purchased - to upgrade.

This is one of the best features of the program because it means lower tier elites have a much better chance of securing upgrades they want.

Further more, AA does not separate its “premium” transcons (JFK-SFO/LAX, MIA-LAX) nor any Hawaii flights from its domestic upgrade program like others.

For all of AA’s many flaws, its elite upgrade system is not one of them. It by far the best and most generous of the three majors (though I would argue the most generous overall is Alaska).

When I was PLAT my upgrade percentage on LAXJFK was 100%. I NEVER missed an upgrade over seven years and I flew that route a lot.


you had 100% upgrade on LAX-JFK as a PLT? What time of the day were you flying? I've definitely missed on upgrades even as an EXP.
 
Airlines0613
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:06 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:46 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Why is AA the only legacy that doesn’t give upgrade list access to its lowest earned status (aka gold) Members? The flight has to be under 500 miles?

UA and DL give them out to everyone of earned status in order of tier.


Everybody gets upgrades. Lower tier elites have to use “stickers” - which are both earned for free and can be purchased - to upgrade.

This is one of the best features of the program because it means lower tier elites have a much better chance of securing upgrades they want.

Further more, AA does not separate its “premium” transcons (JFK-SFO/LAX, MIA-LAX) nor any Hawaii flights from its domestic upgrade program like others.

For all of AA’s many flaws, its elite upgrade system is not one of them. It by far the best and most generous of the three majors (though I would argue the most generous overall is Alaska).

When I was PLAT my upgrade percentage on LAXJFK was 100%. I NEVER missed an upgrade over seven years and I flew that route a lot.

As much as I hate the direction AA is going, I do have to agree that they do have the most generous elite upgrade and award seating system of the US3. I’ve been upgraded 100% of the times I’ve requested one back when I was GLD. I haven’t tried it as a PRO. The award system is also far more generous than any other US3. I can literally book a bunch of 14+ hour flights in business class for around 180K miles round trip on most days. Unlike UA which ask around 250K and DL with an outrageous 400K. This is one of my main reasons why I’m so hesitant to leave AA for UA.
 
AmericanAir88
Posts: 277
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:41 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Why is AA the only legacy that doesn’t give upgrade list access to its lowest earned status (aka gold) Members? The flight has to be under 500 miles?

UA and DL give them out to everyone of earned status in order of tier.


Everybody gets upgrades. Lower tier elites have to use “stickers” - which are both earned for free and can be purchased - to upgrade.

This is one of the best features of the program because it means lower tier elites have a much better chance of securing upgrades they want.


Further more, AA does not separate its “premium” transcons (JFK-SFO/LAX, MIA-LAX) nor any Hawaii flights from its domestic upgrade program like others.

For all of AA’s many flaws, its elite upgrade system is not one of them. It by far the best and most generous of the three majors (though I would argue the most generous overall is Alaska).

When I was PLAT my upgrade percentage on LAXJFK was 100%. I NEVER missed an upgrade over seven years and I flew that route a lot.


How does it give you a better chance compared to being automatically put on the list?

You get the sticker back if you don’t get upgraded right?

Also, I agree that AA is most generous with award flights. I’ve flown JFK-LAS for 25k round trip, while DL and UA wanted 40-60k
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4330
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:20 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Why is AA the only legacy that doesn’t give upgrade list access to its lowest earned status (aka gold) Members? The flight has to be under 500 miles?

UA and DL give them out to everyone of earned status in order of tier.


Everybody gets upgrades. Lower tier elites have to use “stickers” - which are both earned for free and can be purchased - to upgrade.

This is one of the best features of the program because it means lower tier elites have a much better chance of securing upgrades they want.


Further more, AA does not separate its “premium” transcons (JFK-SFO/LAX, MIA-LAX) nor any Hawaii flights from its domestic upgrade program like others.

For all of AA’s many flaws, its elite upgrade system is not one of them. It by far the best and most generous of the three majors (though I would argue the most generous overall is Alaska).

When I was PLAT my upgrade percentage on LAXJFK was 100%. I NEVER missed an upgrade over seven years and I flew that route a lot.


How does it give you a better chance compared to being automatically put on the list?

You get the sticker back if you don’t get upgraded right?

Also, I agree that AA is most generous with award flights. I’ve flown JFK-LAS for 25k round trip, while DL and UA wanted 40-60k


...because some people will not request the upgrade so there is less competition.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26666
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:11 pm

tphuang wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
Why is AA the only legacy that doesn’t give upgrade list access to its lowest earned status (aka gold) Members? The flight has to be under 500 miles?

UA and DL give them out to everyone of earned status in order of tier.


Everybody gets upgrades. Lower tier elites have to use “stickers” - which are both earned for free and can be purchased - to upgrade.

This is one of the best features of the program because it means lower tier elites have a much better chance of securing upgrades they want.

Further more, AA does not separate its “premium” transcons (JFK-SFO/LAX, MIA-LAX) nor any Hawaii flights from its domestic upgrade program like others.

For all of AA’s many flaws, its elite upgrade system is not one of them. It by far the best and most generous of the three majors (though I would argue the most generous overall is Alaska).

When I was PLAT my upgrade percentage on LAXJFK was 100%. I NEVER missed an upgrade over seven years and I flew that route a lot.


you had 100% upgrade on LAX-JFK as a PLT? What time of the day were you flying? I've definitely missed on upgrades even as an EXP.


Yes but never really flew prime business periods. I took a lot of Saturday AM, Friday redeyes, Sunday PMs. So easy to clear.
 
tys777
Moderator
Posts: 662
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:43 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:28 am

Friendly reminder to keep this on topic. Discussion on other users has always been considered off topic and will be removed. One and only warning.

Questions, feel free to email [email protected]
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4731
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:23 pm

AA is splitting its LHR operations across T3 and T5. JFK will operate from T5. Everything else is moving back to T3. This does not seem ideal for a carrier so focused on LHR.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2661
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:05 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
AA is splitting its LHR operations across T3 and T5. JFK will operate from T5. Everything else is moving back to T3. This does not seem ideal for a carrier so focused on LHR.

I suppose it's a pain for those making onward transfers to/from BA, but I have always viewed T3 as superior to T5 simply for its lounges. Granted the CX and QF lounges are closed at present, but I have preferred those over any of the BA lounges in T5, which I have found mediocre at best.

Granted I found T5 easier to move through, especially as an EXP. One can make it from check in to the lounge in mere minutes, compared to walking through the endless maze of the T3 duty free.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4731
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:17 pm

USAirALB wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
AA is splitting its LHR operations across T3 and T5. JFK will operate from T5. Everything else is moving back to T3. This does not seem ideal for a carrier so focused on LHR.

I suppose it's a pain for those making onward transfers to/from BA, but I have always viewed T3 as superior to T5 simply for its lounges. Granted the CX and QF lounges are closed at present, but I have preferred those over any of the BA lounges in T5, which I have found mediocre at best.

Granted I found T5 easier to move through, especially as an EXP. One can make it from check in to the lounge in mere minutes, compared to walking through the endless maze of the T3 duty free.


I don't disagree. Unclear if the Admiral's Club in T3 is reopening. It's not an amazing facility and is dated and spartan, but agreed, the lounge options at T5 aren't amazing and BA's are indeed mediocre at best.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3480
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:12 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
As I always say, I hope for JFK-LAS to return.


I think this is exactly the type of market where AA is happy for you to fly on B6 and earn AA miles if you want. They'll never match DL or B6 on schedule in this market due to slot limitations (and accordingly would not expect to be able to get a revenue premium flying it).

Regarding regional flying at JFK, I think what we'll see short term will depend on the slot waiver. If the slot waiver does run out soon and AA needs to use +/- 100 daily slots (or even just 80-90 slots post-transfer of some slots to B6), flying RJs on short stage length flights is probably the best way to lose the least money. Long term will be interesting to see. AA will need to balance long haul expansion as part of the NEA (especially once the A321XLRs start to arrive) with hub flying and potential regional flying to fill in holes where AA is strong and B6 doesn't fly (e.g. IND, CMH).
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10014
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:01 pm

FSDan wrote:
Regarding regional flying at JFK, I think what we'll see short term will depend on the slot waiver. If the slot waiver does run out soon and AA needs to use +/- 100 daily slots (or even just 80-90 slots post-transfer of some slots to B6), flying RJs on short stage length flights is probably the best way to lose the least money.


Really, FSDan? I would have expected more frequencies to hubs, where AA is at least competitive. Short-haul JFK isn't going to connect to much that's relevant, and short-haul O&D is going to prefer LGA IMHO.

Agree on your 'Let 'em fly JetBlue to LAS' point.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6637
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:30 pm

FSDan wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
As I always say, I hope for JFK-LAS to return.


I think this is exactly the type of market where AA is happy for you to fly on B6 and earn AA miles if you want. They'll never match DL or B6 on schedule in this market due to slot limitations (and accordingly would not expect to be able to get a revenue premium flying it).

Regarding regional flying at JFK, I think what we'll see short term will depend on the slot waiver. If the slot waiver does run out soon and AA needs to use +/- 100 daily slots (or even just 80-90 slots post-transfer of some slots to B6), flying RJs on short stage length flights is probably the best way to lose the least money. Long term will be interesting to see. AA will need to balance long haul expansion as part of the NEA (especially once the A321XLRs start to arrive) with hub flying and potential regional flying to fill in holes where AA is strong and B6 doesn't fly (e.g. IND, CMH).


B6 has publicly said they expect to go from peak 175 departures a day to 220 to 240 a day at JFK. That's after B6/AA having to sell 7 slots as part of the NEA agreement. You can draw your own conclusions on how many slots AA will be leased to B6.

With the most recent B6 schedule updates, there are some interesting developments. For example, it looks like B6 is taking over most of the flying on BOS-LGA/DCA from November onward. I presume this is to allow AA to utilize its DCA slots for more markets. Still quite surprising that AA is letting B6 metal take over these markets.

Similarly for JFK, I think AA has made the decision to be extremely long haul and wide body focused. The by product of that is B6 will be taking over most of the feeds. Since B6 can operate these short haul routes a lot more efficiently, it will actually allow AA to capture more of the TATL connection markets through JFK than before. I guess they will probably miss out on certain markets that B6 doesn't fly to like IND/CMH. On the flip side, B6 is going to give AA a far more robust feed than it ever did with 50 seat RJs.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4731
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:15 am

FSDan wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
As I always say, I hope for JFK-LAS to return.


I think this is exactly the type of market where AA is happy for you to fly on B6 and earn AA miles if you want. They'll never match DL or B6 on schedule in this market due to slot limitations (and accordingly would not expect to be able to get a revenue premium flying it).

Regarding regional flying at JFK, I think what we'll see short term will depend on the slot waiver. If the slot waiver does run out soon and AA needs to use +/- 100 daily slots (or even just 80-90 slots post-transfer of some slots to B6), flying RJs on short stage length flights is probably the best way to lose the least money. Long term will be interesting to see. AA will need to balance long haul expansion as part of the NEA (especially once the A321XLRs start to arrive) with hub flying and potential regional flying to fill in holes where AA is strong and B6 doesn't fly (e.g. IND, CMH).


AA doesn't really need to fly JFK-LAS on its own metal. The route existed previously when AA's NYC focus was to serve major markets its corporate clients needed or wanted, with everything else routed through a hub. The market for LAS has changed dramatically. Big trade shows and other conventions are likely a long way away from returning, if ever, in their pre-pandemic format, and so, yes, AA can just have B6 fly LAS for it and call it a day. If AA can work something out with AS and the regulators out of JFK, it will likely leverage AS for SEA and SAN and be done with those two markets as well.

AA's NYC problem, among many, was the 50 seat regionals, which were uncompetitive relative to DL and UA (at EWR, as it replaced E145s with E175s or upgauged to 73s and 32s, which were for structural reasons around their operations and a focus to grow domestic capacity. AA probably had no choice but to operate E140s/135s on much of its JFK Eagle services because its cost structure would not accommodate anything larger (one of the many problems with AA not having filed Chapter 11 in the wake of 9/11 as everyone else did). The 50 seat RJ's aren't coming back to JFK. They're not needed with the B6 partnership. AA will just use mainline for its shorter routes (A319s, 737s) and potentially E175s and CRJ700/900s for a handful of routes but not the full roster of former Eagle services, which I don't see returning to its pre-pandemic, pre-slot waiver operation, ever.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3480
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:06 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Regarding regional flying at JFK, I think what we'll see short term will depend on the slot waiver. If the slot waiver does run out soon and AA needs to use +/- 100 daily slots (or even just 80-90 slots post-transfer of some slots to B6), flying RJs on short stage length flights is probably the best way to lose the least money.


Really, FSDan? I would have expected more frequencies to hubs, where AA is at least competitive. Short-haul JFK isn't going to connect to much that's relevant, and short-haul O&D is going to prefer LGA IMHO.


My thinking here is that AA probably wants to use up the most slots possible with the fewest aircraft possible in the short term since they want to be growing hubs like DFW, CLT, and MIA and need aircraft to do that. I'm sure there will be plenty of frequency on JFK-MIA this winter, but AA can't use up all their slots on JFK hub-to-hub flying. The fact that even before COVID-19 AA had at most 2-3x daily on routes like JFK-DFW and JFK-ORD suggests that they aren't the highest performers either.

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