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N292UX
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:15 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
Article from a.net favourite Simple Flying ;) with some interesting quotes from Vasu Raja.

https://simpleflying.com/american-hub-strategy/

One in particular caught my eye, about international flying: "and even a couple spoke cities that are out there"

This would be very unlike AA. Wondering which spokes we might see AA long haul flights from.

RDU/BOS/AUS are two for them for sure. I could additionally see AA trying some p2p routes from places like BNA and if we go bold, STL/CMH/IND-LHR at some point down the road if BA doesn't add those routes.

Feel like MAD could also get a couple p2p routes based on the big OW hub there. MCO/AUS-MAD seem to be possibilities based on the larger AA presence there and IB not serving those cities.
 
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BA744PHX
Posts: 559
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:19 pm

N292UX wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
Article from a.net favourite Simple Flying ;) with some interesting quotes from Vasu Raja.

https://simpleflying.com/american-hub-strategy/

One in particular caught my eye, about international flying: "and even a couple spoke cities that are out there"

This would be very unlike AA. Wondering which spokes we might see AA long haul flights from.

RDU/BOS/AUS are two for them for sure. I could additionally see AA trying some p2p routes from places like BNA and if we go bold, STL/CMH/IND-LHR at some point down the road if BA doesn't add those routes.

Feel like MAD could also get a couple p2p routes based on the big OW hub there. MCO/AUS-MAD seem to be possibilities based on the larger AA presence there and IB not serving those cities.


LHR-STL/CMH/IND on AA highly unlikely, they have no reason not to funnel those passengers to ORD/DFW/JFK or all other BA stations
MAD-MCO small chance but significantly higher then MAD-AUS, how/where can you justify this?
 
N292UX
Posts: 717
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:21 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
N292UX wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
Article from a.net favourite Simple Flying ;) with some interesting quotes from Vasu Raja.

https://simpleflying.com/american-hub-strategy/

One in particular caught my eye, about international flying: "and even a couple spoke cities that are out there"

This would be very unlike AA. Wondering which spokes we might see AA long haul flights from.

RDU/BOS/AUS are two for them for sure. I could additionally see AA trying some p2p routes from places like BNA and if we go bold, STL/CMH/IND-LHR at some point down the road if BA doesn't add those routes.

Feel like MAD could also get a couple p2p routes based on the big OW hub there. MCO/AUS-MAD seem to be possibilities based on the larger AA presence there and IB not serving those cities.


LHR-STL/CMH/IND on AA highly unlikely, they have no reason not to funnel those passengers to ORD/DFW/JFK or all other BA stations
MAD-MCO small chance but significantly higher then MAD-AUS, how/where can you justify this?

Largely based on AA presence at those markets and the lack of TATL flying from those markets at the moment. One would think AA/BA could fill a 788 on some of these routes a few times a week.
 
tphuang
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:33 pm

N292UX wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
N292UX wrote:
RDU/BOS/AUS are two for them for sure. I could additionally see AA trying some p2p routes from places like BNA and if we go bold, STL/CMH/IND-LHR at some point down the road if BA doesn't add those routes.

Feel like MAD could also get a couple p2p routes based on the big OW hub there. MCO/AUS-MAD seem to be possibilities based on the larger AA presence there and IB not serving those cities.


LHR-STL/CMH/IND on AA highly unlikely, they have no reason not to funnel those passengers to ORD/DFW/JFK or all other BA stations
MAD-MCO small chance but significantly higher then MAD-AUS, how/where can you justify this?

Largely based on AA presence at those markets and the lack of TATL flying from those markets at the moment. One would think AA/BA could fill a 788 on some of these routes a few times a week.


Maybe take a look at how many widebody aircraft they will have in a couple of years and see how much of existing route map that can operate and go from there. After all, they can rely on IAG to do a lot of the hard lifting to Europe or they can do it themselves. They are more likely to concentrate on adding new destinations from coastal hubs. For example, if they are willing to try JFK-DEL, then something like JFK-HND/NRT would make sense. Something like JFK-JNB or CPT might make sense. SEA-SIN/ICN have also been speculated here. All these routes would take up more aircraft time than adding TATL out of non-hubs.
 
Boof02671
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:56 pm

N292UX wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
Article from a.net favourite Simple Flying ;) with some interesting quotes from Vasu Raja.

https://simpleflying.com/american-hub-strategy/

One in particular caught my eye, about international flying: "and even a couple spoke cities that are out there"

This would be very unlike AA. Wondering which spokes we might see AA long haul flights from.

RDU/BOS/AUS are two for them for sure. I could additionally see AA trying some p2p routes from places like BNA and if we go bold, STL/CMH/IND-LHR at some point down the road if BA doesn't add those routes.

Feel like MAD could also get a couple p2p routes based on the big OW hub there. MCO/AUS-MAD seem to be possibilities based on the larger AA presence there and IB not serving those cities.

BA served AUS pre Covid. If they return I doubt AA would start London.
 
Boof02671
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:58 pm

tphuang wrote:
N292UX wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:

LHR-STL/CMH/IND on AA highly unlikely, they have no reason not to funnel those passengers to ORD/DFW/JFK or all other BA stations
MAD-MCO small chance but significantly higher then MAD-AUS, how/where can you justify this?

Largely based on AA presence at those markets and the lack of TATL flying from those markets at the moment. One would think AA/BA could fill a 788 on some of these routes a few times a week.


Maybe take a look at how many widebody aircraft they will have in a couple of years and see how much of existing route map that can operate and go from there. After all, they can rely on IAG to do a lot of the hard lifting to Europe or they can do it themselves. They are more likely to concentrate on adding new destinations from coastal hubs. For example, if they are willing to try JFK-DEL, then something like JFK-HND/NRT would make sense. Something like JFK-JNB or CPT might make sense. SEA-SIN/ICN have also been speculated here. All these routes would take up more aircraft time than adding TATL out of non-hubs.

You have to factor in the 50 A321XLRs also, not just widebodies.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:12 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
N292UX wrote:
Largely based on AA presence at those markets and the lack of TATL flying from those markets at the moment. One would think AA/BA could fill a 788 on some of these routes a few times a week.


Maybe take a look at how many widebody aircraft they will have in a couple of years and see how much of existing route map that can operate and go from there. After all, they can rely on IAG to do a lot of the hard lifting to Europe or they can do it themselves. They are more likely to concentrate on adding new destinations from coastal hubs. For example, if they are willing to try JFK-DEL, then something like JFK-HND/NRT would make sense. Something like JFK-JNB or CPT might make sense. SEA-SIN/ICN have also been speculated here. All these routes would take up more aircraft time than adding TATL out of non-hubs.

You have to factor in the 50 A321XLRs also, not just widebodies.


Yes.
I could see AA doing something like IAD-MAD or PIT/CLE/DTW-LON with a 321XLR.
 
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BA744PHX
Posts: 559
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:21 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

Maybe take a look at how many widebody aircraft they will have in a couple of years and see how much of existing route map that can operate and go from there. After all, they can rely on IAG to do a lot of the hard lifting to Europe or they can do it themselves. They are more likely to concentrate on adding new destinations from coastal hubs. For example, if they are willing to try JFK-DEL, then something like JFK-HND/NRT would make sense. Something like JFK-JNB or CPT might make sense. SEA-SIN/ICN have also been speculated here. All these routes would take up more aircraft time than adding TATL out of non-hubs.

You have to factor in the 50 A321XLRs also, not just widebodies.


Yes.
I could see AA doing something like IAD-MAD or PIT/CLE/DTW-LON with a 321XLR.

With what slots?
 
usflyer msp
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:22 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
You have to factor in the 50 A321XLRs also, not just widebodies.


Yes.
I could see AA doing something like IAD-MAD or PIT/CLE/DTW-LON with a 321XLR.

With what slots?


MAD slots are not a problem and I specifically said LON not LHR for a reason.
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:29 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

Yes.
I could see AA doing something like IAD-MAD or PIT/CLE/DTW-LON with a 321XLR.

With what slots?


MAD slots are not a problem and I specifically said LON not LHR for a reason.

Now the question is why would AA operate flights to another LON airport from non hub cities that will rely nearly 100% O&D?

In addition what demand or lack of from those cities mentioned can MAD support?
 
usflyer msp
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:37 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
With what slots?


MAD slots are not a problem and I specifically said LON not LHR for a reason.

Now the question is why would AA operate flights to another LON airport from non hub cities that will rely nearly 100% O&D?

In addition what demand or lack of from those cities mentioned can MAD support?


The flights would be mostly O&D but BA does have a hub in LGW and people book itineraries that require airport changes frequently.

An AA 321XLR is probably a better fit for something like IAD-MAD than an IB widebody. You have to think in the context of the JV.
 
Boston757
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:04 pm

What's the latest with AA;s MIA-CDG-MIA. Its scheduled to return this fall. However, there is rattling that's its not coming back.
 
usflyer msp
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:29 pm

Boston757 wrote:
What's the latest with AA;s MIA-CDG-MIA. Its scheduled to return this fall. However, there is rattling that's its not coming back.


IIRC MIA-CDG is the only CDG flight AA is operating this winter.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:42 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Boston757 wrote:
What's the latest with AA;s MIA-CDG-MIA. Its scheduled to return this fall. However, there is rattling that's its not coming back.


IIRC MIA-CDG is the only CDG flight AA is operating this winter.


JFK-CDG?

BA744PHX wrote:
N292UX wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
Article from a.net favourite Simple Flying ;) with some interesting quotes from Vasu Raja.

https://simpleflying.com/american-hub-strategy/

One in particular caught my eye, about international flying: "and even a couple spoke cities that are out there"

This would be very unlike AA. Wondering which spokes we might see AA long haul flights from.

RDU/BOS/AUS are two for them for sure. I could additionally see AA trying some p2p routes from places like BNA and if we go bold, STL/CMH/IND-LHR at some point down the road if BA doesn't add those routes.

Feel like MAD could also get a couple p2p routes based on the big OW hub there. MCO/AUS-MAD seem to be possibilities based on the larger AA presence there and IB not serving those cities.


LHR-STL/CMH/IND on AA highly unlikely, they have no reason not to funnel those passengers to ORD/DFW/JFK or all other BA stations
MAD-MCO small chance but significantly higher then MAD-AUS, how/where can you justify this?


The "funnel passengers through XYZ hub" is a tired argument. You could use that excuse for 99% of new routes added, it was the same excuse used before AUS-LHR was added, same excuse before MSY-LHR, same excuse before BNA-LHR, same excuse before...well you get the point....

Regardless, AA LHR-XYZ spoke isn't going to happen anytime soon, and neither will MAD-MCO/AUS for obvious reasons.

Again, Raja was not indicating new spoke TATL was coming, the reference was strictly relating to their existing p2p TATL offering of RDU/BOS-LHR.
 
MAH4546
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:15 pm

Boston757 wrote:
What's the latest with AA;s MIA-CDG-MIA. Its scheduled to return this fall. However, there is rattling that's its not coming back.


It’s there. And perhaps optimistically it’s double daily starting in January, perhaps in response to AF which is adding a second daily in November.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:35 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
The "funnel passengers through XYZ hub" is a tired argument. You could use that excuse for 99% of new routes added, it was the same excuse used before AUS-LHR was added, same excuse before MSY-LHR, same excuse before BNA-LHR, same excuse before...well you get the point....


It is a simple fact that some airport pairs will not generate enough traffic at sufficiently high fares to cover the costs for the minimum increment of capacity that has range. Do we need to talk about something like CMH-PVG? I don't think we do.

Some metro areas grow into being able to support a broader portfolio of non-stop flights, from pop/income growth, or specific business segments. Ask what BMW's $8 Billion in investment in Spartanburg did for South Carolina - Germany air traffic. Availability of a smaller unit of capacity - the 787-8 - made LHR-MSY work for a time.

What will work in a dynamic market is not known with certainty. PDEW alone won't answer it. Lots of routes get tried and fail, even before Covid crushed the spendy fare business travel component.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:37 am

Midwestindy wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Boston757 wrote:
What's the latest with AA;s MIA-CDG-MIA. Its scheduled to return this fall. However, there is rattling that's its not coming back.


IIRC MIA-CDG is the only CDG flight AA is operating this winter.


JFK-CDG?

BA744PHX wrote:
N292UX wrote:
RDU/BOS/AUS are two for them for sure. I could additionally see AA trying some p2p routes from places like BNA and if we go bold, STL/CMH/IND-LHR at some point down the road if BA doesn't add those routes.

Feel like MAD could also get a couple p2p routes based on the big OW hub there. MCO/AUS-MAD seem to be possibilities based on the larger AA presence there and IB not serving those cities.


LHR-STL/CMH/IND on AA highly unlikely, they have no reason not to funnel those passengers to ORD/DFW/JFK or all other BA stations
MAD-MCO small chance but significantly higher then MAD-AUS, how/where can you justify this?


The "funnel passengers through XYZ hub" is a tired argument. You could use that excuse for 99% of new routes added, it was the same excuse used before AUS-LHR was added, same excuse before MSY-LHR, same excuse before BNA-LHR, same excuse before...well you get the point....

Regardless, AA LHR-XYZ spoke isn't going to happen anytime soon, and neither will MAD-MCO/AUS for obvious reasons.

Again, Raja was not indicating new spoke TATL was coming, the reference was strictly relating to their existing p2p TATL offering of RDU/BOS-LHR.


No, JFK-CDG did not resume until March or April 2021. It was suspended for about a year and it is not daily as it was pre-COVID.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:56 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

IIRC MIA-CDG is the only CDG flight AA is operating this winter.


JFK-CDG?

BA744PHX wrote:

LHR-STL/CMH/IND on AA highly unlikely, they have no reason not to funnel those passengers to ORD/DFW/JFK or all other BA stations
MAD-MCO small chance but significantly higher then MAD-AUS, how/where can you justify this?


The "funnel passengers through XYZ hub" is a tired argument. You could use that excuse for 99% of new routes added, it was the same excuse used before AUS-LHR was added, same excuse before MSY-LHR, same excuse before BNA-LHR, same excuse before...well you get the point....

Regardless, AA LHR-XYZ spoke isn't going to happen anytime soon, and neither will MAD-MCO/AUS for obvious reasons.

Again, Raja was not indicating new spoke TATL was coming, the reference was strictly relating to their existing p2p TATL offering of RDU/BOS-LHR.


No, JFK-CDG did not resume until March or April 2021. It was suspended for about a year and it is not daily as it was pre-COVID.


The poster said this winter, not last winter

MIflyer12 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
The "funnel passengers through XYZ hub" is a tired argument. You could use that excuse for 99% of new routes added, it was the same excuse used before AUS-LHR was added, same excuse before MSY-LHR, same excuse before BNA-LHR, same excuse before...well you get the point....


It is a simple fact that some airport pairs will not generate enough traffic at sufficiently high fares to cover the costs for the minimum increment of capacity that has range. Do we need to talk about something like CMH-PVG? I don't think we do.

Some metro areas grow into being able to support a broader portfolio of non-stop flights, from pop/income growth, or specific business segments. Ask what BMW's $8 Billion in investment in Spartanburg did for South Carolina - Germany air traffic. Availability of a smaller unit of capacity - the 787-8 - made LHR-MSY work for a time.

What will work in a dynamic market is not known with certainty. PDEW alone won't answer it. Lots of routes get tried and fail, even before Covid crushed the spendy fare business travel component.


The poster appears to be arguing that AA has no reason to overfly ORD/DFW/JFK/etc for those routes, essentially irregardless of PDEW. An argument that no longer has any weight.

You are suggesting something different, that the PDEW isn't there to support those markets. However, the Yield/PDEW balance to support those flights was there, as proven by IND-CDG flying for 2+ years & the numerous other TATL offerings that sprung up pre-covid.

But again it's not really worth arguing at this point, because TATL travel is still down 60%, so new TATL routes from non-Hubs just aren't going to happen.
 
jplatts
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:24 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
It is a simple fact that some airport pairs will not generate enough traffic at sufficiently high fares to cover the costs for the minimum increment of capacity that has range. Do we need to talk about something like CMH-PVG? I don't think we do.

Some metro areas grow into being able to support a broader portfolio of non-stop flights, from pop/income growth, or specific business segments. Ask what BMW's $8 Billion in investment in Spartanburg did for South Carolina - Germany air traffic. Availability of a smaller unit of capacity - the 787-8 - made LHR-MSY work for a time.


While there is some demand to MUC from GSP due to the BMW plant near GSP airport, there wasn't likely enough demand for GSP-MUC nonstop service on LH (even with the connecting opportunities that would be there to Eastern Europe, Italy, Egypt, Israel, Turkey, and India through MUC).

MIflyer12 wrote:
What will work in a dynamic market is not known with certainty. PDEW alone won't answer it. Lots of routes get tried and fail, even before Covid crushed the spendy fare business travel component.


There are some non-AA hub markets in the contiguous U.S. that might be able to support nonstop service to LHR on BA with the significant amount of connecting opportunities that would be available to Europe, the Middle East, and Africa through LHR on BA.

BA had nonstop service to LHR from some non-AA hub cities in the contiguous U.S. prior to the COVID-19 pandemic such as ATL, AUS, BOS, DEN, IAH, LAS, BNA, MSY, SAN, SJC, SFO, and SEA, but some of these routes are still suspended due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

There are also some non-AA hub markets in the contiguous U.S. that might be able to support nonstop service to TYO on JL with the significant amount of connecting opportunities that would be available to other destinations in East Asia and Southeast Asia through TYO.

JL does serve NRT nonstop from a few non-AA hub airports in the contiguous U.S. such as BOS, SAN, SFO, and SEA, but there are other factors that support NRT-BOS/SAN/SFO/SEA nonstop service such as (a) significant Asian populations in the SAN/SFO/SEA markets, (b) AS FF bases in the SAN/SFO/SEA markets, and (c) there likely being enough demand to NRT from BOS/SAN/SFO/SEA (at least prior to the COVID-19 pandemic) with the connections that JL was offering to other Asian destinations through NRT (in addition to TYO-BOS/SAN/SFO/SEA O&D).
 
seatback
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:27 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
tphuang wrote:


Yes.
I could see AA doing something like IAD-MAD or PIT/CLE/DTW-LON with a 321XLR.


I've always thought that AA should make a go of IAD-Europe with their large hub and FF base in DC.

Also, why should AA keep LAX-NRT? Why not give it to JAL considering they're metal neutral? I guess the same question regarding SYD.
 
Boof02671
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:32 pm

seatback wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:


I've always thought that AA should make a go of IAD-Europe with their large hub and FF base in DC.

Also, why should AA keep LAX-NRT? Why not give it to JAL considering they're metal neutral? I guess the same question regarding SYD.

No connecting traffic to IAD and UA and foreign airlines are all ready established.

Never happen.
 
USAirALB
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:45 pm

Frankly I wouldn’t be surprised to see AA attempt IAD-MAD at some point in the future with an A321XLR.

Iberia was due to resume the route last year with an A330 but it never started because of the pandemic. I do wonder if the A321XLR would be a better equipment type for the route.
 
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OA412
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:50 pm

Please refrain from posting made up rumors.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:14 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
seatback wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:


I've always thought that AA should make a go of IAD-Europe with their large hub and FF base in DC.

Also, why should AA keep LAX-NRT? Why not give it to JAL considering they're metal neutral? I guess the same question regarding SYD.

No connecting traffic to IAD and UA and foreign airlines are all ready established.

Never happen.


AA has its own FF large base in the DMV and can't fly LH from DCA. AA would probably fly to JV hubs like MAD/LHR/TYO so the feed would be on the other end.
 
AAguy1992
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:16 pm

OA412 wrote:
Please refrain from posting made up rumors.


As they say in the Airline business, "IF YOU NOTHING HAPPENS BY 400PM START A RUMOUR", My dad told me that DC10 Capt. for UAL. Just commenting.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:28 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Frankly I wouldn’t be surprised to see AA attempt IAD-MAD at some point in the future with an A321XLR.

Iberia was due to resume the route last year with an A330 but it never started because of the pandemic. I do wonder if the A321XLR would be a better equipment type for the route.


Very unlikely. The first batch of 321XLRs are still a while away and when they do arrive on property, they'll likely be positioned at PHL, JFK, and MIA. Highly improbable that AA would open a TATL gateway at IAD.
 
PITFlyer330
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:43 pm

AA to codeshare with startup connect airlines https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/143 ... 54538?s=20

this dosent make up for westjet. I still think AA should be partners with flair or porter
 
rjbesikof
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:59 pm

Is AA DFW-TLV still scheduled to launch in November?
 
Brickell305
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:40 am

PITFlyer330 wrote:
AA to codeshare with startup connect airlines https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/143 ... 54538?s=20

this dosent make up for westjet. I still think AA should be partners with flair or porter


I don't see how this benefits AA at all. AFAIK, Connect can't even fly domestically within Canada. As such, what is it adding to AA that AA couldn't otherwise do for itself?
 
usflyer msp
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:48 am

Brickell305 wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:
AA to codeshare with startup connect airlines https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/143 ... 54538?s=20

this dosent make up for westjet. I still think AA should be partners with flair or porter


I don't see how this benefits AA at all. AFAIK, Connect can't even fly domestically within Canada. As such, what is it adding to AA that AA couldn't otherwise do for itself?


Are turboprops included in AA's scope clause?
The only thing I can think of is AA using Q400's to get around their scope clause.
 
dcajet
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:25 am

Brickell305 wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:
AA to codeshare with startup connect airlines https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/143 ... 54538?s=20

this dosent make up for westjet. I still think AA should be partners with flair or porter


I don't see how this benefits AA at all. AFAIK, Connect can't even fly domestically within Canada. As such, what is it adding to AA that AA couldn't otherwise do for itself?


For the time when passenger traffic between the US and Canada is back to normal, I suppose this agreement gives AA access to Toronto's downtown airport and its high yielding traffic to the US NE cities.

I find this interesting because this agreement leaves Porter without a major US carrier to partner with. AC has United, Westjet has Delta and this startup has American. And Porter has...?
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 711
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:14 am

dcajet wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
PITFlyer330 wrote:
AA to codeshare with startup connect airlines https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/143 ... 54538?s=20

this dosent make up for westjet. I still think AA should be partners with flair or porter


I don't see how this benefits AA at all. AFAIK, Connect can't even fly domestically within Canada. As such, what is it adding to AA that AA couldn't otherwise do for itself?


For the time when passenger traffic between the US and Canada is back to normal, I suppose this agreement gives AA access to Toronto's downtown airport and its high yielding traffic to the US NE cities.

I find this interesting because this agreement leaves Porter without a major US carrier to partner with. AC has United, Westjet has Delta and this startup has American. And Porter has...?


IMO with the current USA routes porter has, only Boston would benefit from an American Airlines agreement since porter only flies to BOS, EWR, MDW, IAD and MYR. I am curious how this Connect/AA agreement will work out
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 6304
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:57 am

AA looks to be ramping up JFK in November, likely to protect slots, some RJ routes get big boosts

BWI-JFK up to 7x
PHL-JFK up to 5x
CLE/PIT-JFK up to 4x
BNA/IND-JFK up to 2x

e.t.c
 
dcajet
Posts: 5065
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:00 am

Bigant0408 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:

I don't see how this benefits AA at all. AFAIK, Connect can't even fly domestically within Canada. As such, what is it adding to AA that AA couldn't otherwise do for itself?


For the time when passenger traffic between the US and Canada is back to normal, I suppose this agreement gives AA access to Toronto's downtown airport and its high yielding traffic to the US NE cities.

I find this interesting because this agreement leaves Porter without a major US carrier to partner with. AC has United, Westjet has Delta and this startup has American. And Porter has...?


IMO with the current USA routes porter has, only Boston would benefit from an American Airlines agreement since porter only flies to BOS, EWR, MDW, IAD and MYR. I am curious how this Connect/AA agreement will work out


Last month Porter announced a massive expansion into 20 new routes, both domestic and transborder, coinciding with the arrival of their new E.195 E2 fleet.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/porter-ai ... ew-cities/
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4511
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:49 am

Midwestindy wrote:
AA looks to be ramping up JFK in November, likely to protect slots, some RJ routes get big boosts

BWI-JFK up to 7x
PHL-JFK up to 5x
CLE/PIT-JFK up to 4x
BNA/IND-JFK up to 2x

e.t.c


Interesting update for AUS in November.

No flight to IND
TUL is only TUL-AUS no AUS-TUL.
STL is 2x STL-AUS but only 1x AUS-STL
CVG-AUS 1x. AUS-CVG 2x

That’s as far as I went thru them

Maybe things are still updating.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2687
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:13 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
AA looks to be ramping up JFK in November, likely to protect slots, some RJ routes get big boosts

BWI-JFK up to 7x
PHL-JFK up to 5x
CLE/PIT-JFK up to 4x
BNA/IND-JFK up to 2x

e.t.c


Interesting update for AUS in November.

No flight to IND
TUL is only TUL-AUS no AUS-TUL.
STL is 2x STL-AUS but only 1x AUS-STL
CVG-AUS 1x. AUS-CVG 2x

That’s as far as I went thru them

Maybe things are still updating.

More than likely just a placeholder schedule. It’s usually a month to two weeks till the final build.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4511
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:27 am

Boof02671 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
AA looks to be ramping up JFK in November, likely to protect slots, some RJ routes get big boosts

BWI-JFK up to 7x
PHL-JFK up to 5x
CLE/PIT-JFK up to 4x
BNA/IND-JFK up to 2x

e.t.c


Interesting update for AUS in November.

No flight to IND
TUL is only TUL-AUS no AUS-TUL.
STL is 2x STL-AUS but only 1x AUS-STL
CVG-AUS 1x. AUS-CVG 2x

That’s as far as I went thru them

Maybe things are still updating.

More than likely just a placeholder schedule. It’s usually a month to two weeks till the final build.


Also noticed just STL-ORD is 2x and STL-PHL is 1x so it obviously isn’t done loading yet. Those numbers will be higher once it is done.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4511
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:58 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
AA looks to be ramping up JFK in November, likely to protect slots, some RJ routes get big boosts

BWI-JFK up to 7x
PHL-JFK up to 5x
CLE/PIT-JFK up to 4x
BNA/IND-JFK up to 2x

e.t.c


Interesting update for AUS in November.

No flight to IND
TUL is only TUL-AUS no AUS-TUL.
STL is 2x STL-AUS but only 1x AUS-STL
CVG-AUS 1x. AUS-CVG 2x

That’s as far as I went thru them

Maybe things are still updating.


You can disregard this they are showing back up now
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:03 am

Lot of changes in November on the international front:
1) DFW-TLV goes from a 789 to a 772.
2) ORD-SJO/LIR loaded on 738s.
3) Lotta Carribbean routes seeing widebodies.
Despite Europe being open, AA is favoring the short haul and domestic markets this winter.
 
sand26391
Posts: 737
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:47 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:19 am

PITFlyer330 wrote:
AA to codeshare with startup connect airlines https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/143 ... 54538?s=20

this dosent make up for westjet. I still think AA should be partners with flair or porter


Talking about codeshare, this came to my mind. Would like to hear your thoughts on this....

They will need to codeshare with someone in India, too.
I'm sure they must be targeting some% of beyond, Behind traffic at BLR/DEL for their flights to SEA/DEL respectively.
Any leads on that front? It will be interesting if they don't tie up with anyone at all in the Indian domestic sector for codeshare.
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2306
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:04 am

rjbesikof wrote:
Lot of changes in November on the international front:
1) DFW-TLV goes from a 789 to a 772.
2) ORD-SJO/LIR loaded on 738s.
3) Lotta Carribbean routes seeing widebodies.
Despite Europe being open, AA is favoring the short haul and domestic markets this winter.


Remember that while Europe may be open to USA, the USA is not open to Europeans yet. That makes for a significant decrease in the TATL traffic.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 6304
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:11 am

Looks like ORD is the loser in this schedule change, as tons of large RJ capacity is moving to the coast:

ORD-BOS/SEA/SFO/ATL/DEN/LAS/BNA/SAN/STL/IND/MCI/CVG/CLE/PIT/e.t.c all see reductions to ORD vs. October

Meanwhile using matrix, AUS will be at ~75 departures, BOS ~85, JFK ~100, LAX ~140, LGA ~150, DCA ~245

We could see some very awful load factors on some of these DCA/JFK/LGA routes come November. For example, AA is scheduling nearly 10 daily flights on ORF-JFK/LGA

Jshank83 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
AA looks to be ramping up JFK in November, likely to protect slots, some RJ routes get big boosts

BWI-JFK up to 7x
PHL-JFK up to 5x
CLE/PIT-JFK up to 4x
BNA/IND-JFK up to 2x

e.t.c


Interesting update for AUS in November.

No flight to IND
TUL is only TUL-AUS no AUS-TUL.
STL is 2x STL-AUS but only 1x AUS-STL
CVG-AUS 1x. AUS-CVG 2x

That’s as far as I went thru them

Maybe things are still updating.


You can disregard this they are showing back up now


Better to use this page, instead of the actual booking tool. The updates show up immediately here.
https://www.aa.com/travelInformation/fl ... e&from=Nav
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4743
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:29 am

rjbesikof wrote:
Lot of changes in November on the international front:
1) DFW-TLV goes from a 789 to a 772.
2) ORD-SJO/LIR loaded on 738s.
3) Lotta Carribbean routes seeing widebodies.
Despite Europe being open, AA is favoring the short haul and domestic markets this winter.


Europe is a problem. Americans can largely visit many countries without restrictions, provided they are vaccinated and this has been a strong summer for Greece, Italy, Spain, and Croatia, but we're approaching the end of the summer, and a lot of these leisure destinations begin to see drops. EU citizens by contrast can't enter the US easily, and business travel is down substantially, particularly to TATL destinations that sustain year round services or are in high demand normally (LHR, BRU, FRA, etc...) and so there are deep seasonally adjusted cuts to TATL flying across the board come November.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6637
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:33 am

These schedule will not stick. As soon as dot give guidance on slot usage requirements for November, the airlines will update based on that. I don't see how airlines will be required to use more than 80% of their slots. Bookings are way down in the northeast compared to July.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4743
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:36 am

Just in and reported on OMAAT, that JFK-DEL on AA will be up gauged to the 77W when it launches, and remain a 77W until March 26th. From March, it reverts to a 772.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1464
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:38 am

rjbesikof wrote:
Lot of changes in November on the international front:
1) DFW-TLV goes from a 789 to a 772.
2) ORD-SJO/LIR loaded on 738s.
3) Lotta Carribbean routes seeing widebodies.
Despite Europe being open, AA is favoring the short haul and domestic markets this winter.


Re the Caribbean routes with wide bodies, what are you seeing? So far I have seen:

1. MIA/CLT-PUJ with 777s
2. MIA/DFW-SJU with two and one daily 777s respectively
3. DFW-MBJ daily 787
4. DFW/ORD-CUN daily 787s

Is that everything? Some ex MIA routes seem surprisingly small to me as well. MBJ at just 1 daily with a Max 8. PAP at just 2x daily with Max 8s.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4743
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:39 am

tphuang wrote:
These schedule will not stick. As soon as dot give guidance on slot usage requirements for November, the airlines will update based on that. I don't see how airlines will be required to use more than 80% of their slots. Bookings are way down in the northeast compared to July.


Slot waivers are very likely going to be extended and handed out. No one is using their full allocations and there's really no reason or incentive for others to make use of dormant ones. Bookings are declining across the board, and not just in the northeast. TATL services are going to see big cuts in mid-Fall through the winter, and not just on the US airlines, but across the board. NE to Florida also taking a hit as Florida is essentially a petri-dish of COVID at the moment.
 
Zbogart757
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:35 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:40 am

Brickell305 wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Lot of changes in November on the international front:
1) DFW-TLV goes from a 789 to a 772.
2) ORD-SJO/LIR loaded on 738s.
3) Lotta Carribbean routes seeing widebodies.
Despite Europe being open, AA is favoring the short haul and domestic markets this winter.


Re the Caribbean routes with wide bodies, what are you seeing? So far I have seen:

1. MIA/CLT-PUJ with 777s
2. MIA/DFW-SJU with two and one daily 777s respectively
3. DFW-MBJ daily 787
4. DFW/ORD-CUN daily 787s

Is that everything? Some ex MIA routes seem surprisingly small to me as well. MBJ at just 1 daily with a Max 8. PAP at just 2x daily with Max 8s.

PHL-MBJ also sees a B787.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1464
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:43 am

Zbogart757 wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Lot of changes in November on the international front:
1) DFW-TLV goes from a 789 to a 772.
2) ORD-SJO/LIR loaded on 738s.
3) Lotta Carribbean routes seeing widebodies.
Despite Europe being open, AA is favoring the short haul and domestic markets this winter.


Re the Caribbean routes with wide bodies, what are you seeing? So far I have seen:

1. MIA/CLT-PUJ with 777s
2. MIA/DFW-SJU with two and one daily 777s respectively
3. DFW-MBJ daily 787
4. DFW/ORD-CUN daily 787s

Is that everything? Some ex MIA routes seem surprisingly small to me as well. MBJ at just 1 daily with a Max 8. PAP at just 2x daily with Max 8s.

PHL-MBJ also sees a B787.


Thanks.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 6304
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:43 pm

tphuang wrote:
These schedule will not stick. As soon as dot give guidance on slot usage requirements for November, the airlines will update based on that. I don't see how airlines will be required to use more than 80% of their slots. Bookings are way down in the northeast compared to July.


I'm not so sure they are going to extend it, that would have happened months ago. The usage requirement exemption for October was announced back in January, and it was in the proposal process in December

Bookings are also not down that much compared to July in the Northeast according to my numbers, not sure where you are getting your data from.

ContinentalEWR wrote:
tphuang wrote:
These schedule will not stick. As soon as dot give guidance on slot usage requirements for November, the airlines will update based on that. I don't see how airlines will be required to use more than 80% of their slots. Bookings are way down in the northeast compared to July.


Slot waivers are very likely going to be extended and handed out. No one is using their full allocations and there's really no reason or incentive for others to make use of dormant ones. Bookings are declining across the board, and not just in the northeast. TATL services are going to see big cuts in mid-Fall through the winter, and not just on the US airlines, but across the board. NE to Florida also taking a hit as Florida is essentially a petri-dish of COVID at the moment.


The slot rules will need to return eventually, and it will be before travel in the Northeast returns to 80%+ of 2019.

Other airlines (NK) are begging for more access, so at some point it is unfair to continue to extend these waivers when other airlines could be providing service.

TATL is a whole other thing.

Positivity rates, case counts, & rt values are flat or falling based on US averages, so the worst of the transmission is behind us at this point.

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