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PHLspecial
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:41 am

USAirALB wrote:
Correct. All three different styles of AA A320 (all in the same configuration, just different seats: Old US, Old HP, Post-HP merger delivery with new Airbus interior) maintain their original, non-slimline seating. In-seat power has been retrofitted and IIRC there are no plans to change the seating. These planes also have 32 inches of pitch in the back.

Could sell all those seats as MCE
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:23 pm

Does anyone know about the forthcoming MIA-AXA (Anguilla) route? I'd love to fly this in Jan.

Thanks.
 
dfw88
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:52 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
Does anyone know about the forthcoming MIA-AXA (Anguilla) route? I'd love to fly this in Jan.

Thanks.


Not sure which information you're looking for. It starts on 11 Dec, runs Wednesday and Saturday. The departure time varies a bit over the first few weeks but it leaves at around 11am from MIA and at around 2:40pm from AXA.
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:48 pm

dfw88 wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Does anyone know about the forthcoming MIA-AXA (Anguilla) route? I'd love to fly this in Jan.

Thanks.


Not sure which information you're looking for. It starts on 11 Dec, runs Wednesday and Saturday. The departure time varies a bit over the first few weeks but it leaves at around 11am from MIA and at around 2:40pm from AXA.


That's it thanks. Last I checked on my AA app it wasn't showing....
 
CPS001
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:54 pm

Does anyone know when the IndiGo codeshares go online? Still pending approval?
 
ahj2000
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:52 am

CPS001 wrote:
Does anyone know when the IndiGo codeshares go online? Still pending approval?

“October 2021” I assume either this week or it’s still in the approval stage.
 
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fanoftristars
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:42 am

usflyer msp wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
Sydscott wrote:

Which again is a personal perspective. Seat pitch and Lavs are exactly the same so the core product that you park your bum on and go to the toilet in are the same. So what's interesting is peoples reactions and perceptions to an AA program which actually matched what Delta was doing in terms or Lavs, Pitch and Density.



You'll note I didn't make a comment outside of about Lavs, pitch and density. AA was less dense than DL and is now equally dense on config on an apples to apples comparison. Lavs are the same, 737-800 seating numbers are identical and seat pitch is identical at 30 to 31 inches.

So again, I find it interesting that 2 airlines that on the exact same aircraft have made it equally uncomfortable to fly on by packing the same numbers and the same small lavs get such a different reaction from people. It says something about the other factors you talk about in terms of peoples perceptions of AA and how they react to similar density on DL.

AA is phasing out the 160 seat configuration for the OASIS 172 seat arrangement and is close to finishing the transition. I believe all DL 738s have 160 seats with two less rows of Y.


AA 738's are denser then DL's.
DL 321's are denser than AA's.

it is a wash.

Hold up there… This is not true. The Kodiak A321 which will become standard across the fleet has roughly the same seat count as DL, but DL’s A321 has the space flex lavatories giving more room for seats. DL’s standard pitch in coach is 31” to AA’s 30” and does have a different seat with more seat padding.

Across the board Delta has a better coach product in pitch and seat back screens, with a true Y+ offering that’s always the front of main cabin and boards in their own zone with free alcohol. In addition, DL brought back alcohol to the entire Main Cabin long ago, something AA can’t seem to figure out.

I’m platinum on Delta and Platinum Pro on AA. DL is definitely superior in every way.
 
CPS001
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:53 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
CPS001 wrote:
Does anyone know when the IndiGo codeshares go online? Still pending approval?

“October 2021” I assume either this week or it’s still in the approval stage.
Thanks for the info.
 
dfwfanboy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:03 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
AA is phasing out the 160 seat configuration for the OASIS 172 seat arrangement and is close to finishing the transition. I believe all DL 738s have 160 seats with two less rows of Y.


AA 738's are denser then DL's.
DL 321's are denser than AA's.

it is a wash.

Hold up there… This is not true. The Kodiak A321 which will become standard across the fleet has roughly the same seat count as DL, but DL’s A321 has the space flex lavatories giving more room for seats. DL’s standard pitch in coach is 31” to AA’s 30” and does have a different seat with more seat padding.

Across the board Delta has a better coach product in pitch and seat back screens, with a true Y+ offering that’s always the front of main cabin and boards in their own zone with free alcohol. In addition, DL brought back alcohol to the entire Main Cabin long ago, something AA can’t seem to figure out.

I’m platinum on Delta and Platinum Pro on AA. DL is definitely superior in every way.

“Delta’s standard pitch in economy is 31””

Sure it is…. Except on every plane where it isn’t the standard and where delta has less legroom in first class than aa.

https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/airbus/a321
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:28 pm

DP
Last edited by UpNAWAy on Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:50 pm

On today's SOTA call it was mentioned that additional international destinations will not be announce until Jan as they get a better handle on the 13 787 past due deliveries from Boeing. They don't want to make an announcement and then have to pull it or delay it.
 
graham697
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:20 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
On today's SOTA call it was mentioned that additional international destinations will not be announce until Jan as they get a better handle on the 13 787 past due deliveries from Boeing. They don't want to make an announcement and then have to pull it or delay it.


These are the ones largely held up due to the manufacturing issues Boeing/FAA flagged?
 
JohanTally
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:45 pm

graham697 wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
On today's SOTA call it was mentioned that additional international destinations will not be announce until Jan as they get a better handle on the 13 787 past due deliveries from Boeing. They don't want to make an announcement and then have to pull it or delay it.


These are the ones largely held up due to the manufacturing issues Boeing/FAA flagged?

Boeing hasn't been able to deliver any 787s in quite some time and has roughly 150 undelivered frames stored. This includes 10 AA frames that are fully assembled and a few more undergoing final assembly.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:27 pm

JohanTally wrote:
graham697 wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
On today's SOTA call it was mentioned that additional international destinations will not be announce until Jan as they get a better handle on the 13 787 past due deliveries from Boeing. They don't want to make an announcement and then have to pull it or delay it.


These are the ones largely held up due to the manufacturing issues Boeing/FAA flagged?

Boeing hasn't been able to deliver any 787s in quite some time and has roughly 150 undelivered frames stored. This includes 10 AA frames that are fully assembled and a few more undergoing final assembly.


I live near PAE. There have been quite a few 787s parked here for quite awhile, including several AA airplanes.

As a long time Boeing employee, it’s embarrassing that the customers can’t even make long term route plans due to unreliable deliveries.

What is the status of SEA-BLR? Is it really going to start?
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:16 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
graham697 wrote:

These are the ones largely held up due to the manufacturing issues Boeing/FAA flagged?

Boeing hasn't been able to deliver any 787s in quite some time and has roughly 150 undelivered frames stored. This includes 10 AA frames that are fully assembled and a few more undergoing final assembly.


I live near PAE. There have been quite a few 787s parked here for quite awhile, including several AA airplanes.

As a long time Boeing employee, it’s embarrassing that the customers can’t even make long term route plans due to unreliable deliveries.

What is the status of SEA-BLR? Is it really going to start?


SEA-BLR begins January 4th 2022 as of now. JFK-DEL starts 10/31.
 
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fanoftristars
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:39 pm

dfwfanboy wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

AA 738's are denser then DL's.
DL 321's are denser than AA's.

it is a wash.

Hold up there… This is not true. The Kodiak A321 which will become standard across the fleet has roughly the same seat count as DL, but DL’s A321 has the space flex lavatories giving more room for seats. DL’s standard pitch in coach is 31” to AA’s 30” and does have a different seat with more seat padding.

Across the board Delta has a better coach product in pitch and seat back screens, with a true Y+ offering that’s always the front of main cabin and boards in their own zone with free alcohol. In addition, DL brought back alcohol to the entire Main Cabin long ago, something AA can’t seem to figure out.

I’m platinum on Delta and Platinum Pro on AA. DL is definitely superior in every way.

“Delta’s standard pitch in economy is 31””

Sure it is…. Except on every plane where it isn’t the standard and where delta has less legroom in first class than aa.

https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/airbus/a321


There are only a small handful of seats on the A321 at 30" - I believe it's the last row. AA's pitch is standard at 30" in Main Cabin. There is a difference.

First class is roughly the same. The AA Kodiak A321 (All A321s being converted to this config) is 36" pitch. DL is 37" Pitch. I'm not sure why their website says 35-37", I know of no seats that are 35" on DL in first class. The 321 is 37"
 
dfwfanboy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:21 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
dfwfanboy wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
Hold up there… This is not true. The Kodiak A321 which will become standard across the fleet has roughly the same seat count as DL, but DL’s A321 has the space flex lavatories giving more room for seats. DL’s standard pitch in coach is 31” to AA’s 30” and does have a different seat with more seat padding.

Across the board Delta has a better coach product in pitch and seat back screens, with a true Y+ offering that’s always the front of main cabin and boards in their own zone with free alcohol. In addition, DL brought back alcohol to the entire Main Cabin long ago, something AA can’t seem to figure out.

I’m platinum on Delta and Platinum Pro on AA. DL is definitely superior in every way.

“Delta’s standard pitch in economy is 31””

Sure it is…. Except on every plane where it isn’t the standard and where delta has less legroom in first class than aa.

https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/airbus/a321


There are only a small handful of seats on the A321 at 30" - I believe it's the last row. AA's pitch is standard at 30" in Main Cabin. There is a difference.

First class is roughly the same. The AA Kodiak A321 (All A321s being converted to this config) is 36" pitch. DL is 37" Pitch. I'm not sure why their website says 35-37", I know of no seats that are 35" on DL in first class. The 321 is 37"


Feel free to post any link backing up the assertion that only a few rows are 30”. Delta has never claimed that.

https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/exp ... s.jsp#a321

AA A321 kodiak retrofit is 37” in first class just like the Neo, not 36”. The old US Airways first class pitch was 36”. The new retrofit is 37”. If you have a better source than aa.com regarding seat pitch, feel free to share.

With respect, I think delta.com is a better source for delta seat pitch than whether or not you know of a row with 35”. The 35” is just like many other delta narrow body aircraft. Delta had the same issue oasis initially did, a first row with worse seat pitch. AA chose to fix that discrepancy (kodiak), delta chose to leave a row with reduced seat pitch at 35”.
 
JohanTally
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:45 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
graham697 wrote:

These are the ones largely held up due to the manufacturing issues Boeing/FAA flagged?

Boeing hasn't been able to deliver any 787s in quite some time and has roughly 150 undelivered frames stored. This includes 10 AA frames that are fully assembled and a few more undergoing final assembly.


I live near PAE. There have been quite a few 787s parked here for quite awhile, including several AA airplanes.

As a long time Boeing employee, it’s embarrassing that the customers can’t even make long term route plans due to unreliable deliveries.

What is the status of SEA-BLR? Is it really going to start?

The BLR route is slated for the 789 and DEL for now will be on the 77W so technically the stalled 788 deliveries aren't inhibiting these routes. Obviously that changes if around Spring 2022 the planes are still not on AA property for the summer travel season.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:07 am

Cranky Flyer reporting today that LAX-HND, DFW-HND, and DFW-HKG, are all suspended through Winter. All other China services (PEK, PVG) are also cut through Winter. DFW-EZE goes from 1 x daily to 4 x weekly.
 
JohanTally
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 30, 2021 12:44 am

Over 150 AA cancellations today at DFW

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/today/DFW
 
atal17
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:25 am

AA has delayed DEL launch to the 12th of November

https://twitter.com/theaeronetwork/stat ... 87405?s=20
 
JohanTally
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:00 pm

Over 500 cancellations so far between the 29th and 30th.

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/natio ... 0383a76cdb
 
PI4EVR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:06 pm

JohanTally wrote:
Over 500 cancellations so far between the 29th and 30th.

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/natio ... 0383a76cdb


My hometown airport TPA was hit this morning with flights to CLT, DFW, MIA and PHX canceled with over 600+ passengers to rebook/protect. MCO had 3 cancellations as of 0900 this morning so a rough day for airport folks.
 
Seat1F
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:22 pm

JohanTally wrote:
Over 500 cancellations so far between the 29th and 30th.

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/natio ... 0383a76cdb

Wow. I'm glad I'm flying DL Sunday and not AA ;) .
 
bpat777
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:55 pm

My 10/31 AA MIA-JFK flight was canceled Friday the 29th. A fully booked 777 on a Sunday at that. Why wld AA cancel a flight 2 days prior?
 
Boof02671
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 30, 2021 4:09 pm

bpat777 wrote:
My 10/31 AA MIA-JFK flight was canceled Friday the 29th. A fully booked 777 on a Sunday at that. Why wld AA cancel a flight 2 days prior?

Because they are being pro active. It is the end of the month crews might be out of time.
 
rjbesikof
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:49 pm

Is the January schedule finalized? I am looking to fly from LAX-DEN on AA. This month there is only one mainline option. I checked January, and all of the LAX-DEN routes are on A319s. Must be a placeholder or are they really planning on flying 4 mainline aircraft between Los Angeles and Colorado.
Also, is AA running flights out Eagle's Nest. I know they are split between T5/T4/TBIT. The idea of taking a bus from T4 to the eastern side of the airport to board an airplane is not appealing.
 
JohanTally
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:39 pm

Another factor for crew availability is if there is a last minute surge of vaccinations requiring days off for pilots.
 
Boof02671
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:41 pm

Seems WN is having issues also.
 
AC4500
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:09 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
Is the January schedule finalized? I am looking to fly from LAX-DEN on AA. This month there is only one mainline option. I checked January, and all of the LAX-DEN routes are on A319s. Must be a placeholder or are they really planning on flying 4 mainline aircraft between Los Angeles and Colorado.
Also, is AA running flights out Eagle's Nest. I know they are split between T5/T4/TBIT. The idea of taking a bus from T4 to the eastern side of the airport to board an airplane is not appealing.

No, January is not finalized yet. I suspect it will be soon though.
 
rjbesikof
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:29 pm

AC4500 wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Is the January schedule finalized? I am looking to fly from LAX-DEN on AA. This month there is only one mainline option. I checked January, and all of the LAX-DEN routes are on A319s. Must be a placeholder or are they really planning on flying 4 mainline aircraft between Los Angeles and Colorado.
Also, is AA running flights out Eagle's Nest. I know they are split between T5/T4/TBIT. The idea of taking a bus from T4 to the eastern side of the airport to board an airplane is not appealing.

No, January is not finalized yet. I suspect it will be soon though.

OK, thank you. If AA were to switch my flight to regional aircraft assuming it does leave out of the Eagle's Nest, can I request to switch it back to AA mainline so I don't have to take a bus between two terminals?
 
wjcandee
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:03 pm

Over 400 AA flights cancelled today.

What's interesting is how well the ULCCs have been doing since their low point years ago. Today: 2 canx on Allegiant, 0 on Spirit, 0 on Frontier. Just 1 on Delta. Good to see the ULCCs paying attention to reliability.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:32 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Over 400 AA flights cancelled today.

What's interesting is how well the ULCCs have been doing since their low point years ago. Today: 2 canx on Allegiant, 0 on Spirit, 0 on Frontier. Just 1 on Delta. Good to see the ULCCs paying attention to reliability.


You seem to be forgetting Spirit's huge meltdown between July 30th and August 9th. I would hardly call them "reliable".
 
wjcandee
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Oct 31, 2021 12:03 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Over 400 AA flights cancelled today.

What's interesting is how well the ULCCs have been doing since their low point years ago. Today: 2 canx on Allegiant, 0 on Spirit, 0 on Frontier. Just 1 on Delta. Good to see the ULCCs paying attention to reliability.


You seem to be forgetting Spirit's huge meltdown between July 30th and August 9th. I would hardly call them "reliable".


Well, there's day-to-day reliability, and there's the likelihood of a one-off event from which it takes several days to recover. The latter are mercifully-rare, but seem to have afflicted all the majors at one point or another in the past few years. Hopefully, they learn from them and make their systems and procedures stronger. I'm commenting more on the former, in which there used to be a significant difference, which is now reduced. G4's move to the Airbus and utilizing more predictive maintenance planning seems to have helped them.
 
rjbesikof
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:03 am

Is AA still gonna restart SYD in January?
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:24 am

rjbesikof wrote:
Is AA still gonna restart SYD in January?


As of now, yes, in January, LAX-SYD returns, on the 787-9.
 
JohanTally
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:52 am

rjbesikof wrote:
Is AA still gonna restart SYD in January?

I don't believe the final cuts for January have been finalized. AFAIK the New South Wales government hasn't set a date for arriving American tourists which I think will be essential for the resumption of the route.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:09 pm

JohanTally wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Is AA still gonna restart SYD in January?

I don't believe the final cuts for January have been finalized. AFAIK the New South Wales government hasn't set a date for arriving American tourists which I think will be essential for the resumption of the route.


That's true but AA and QF have a JV and there will continue to be a surge in demand for Australian nationals and non-Aussies who are allowed to travel to / from Australia so it would not be unexpected if AA maintains the resumption.
 
seatback
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:01 pm

What would it take to pull some 767's out of storage to compensate for the delayed 787s? With the expected TA rebound, will AA fall further behind UA and DL?
 
chonetsao
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:32 pm

seatback wrote:
What would it take to pull some 767's out of storage to compensate for the delayed 787s? With the expected TA rebound, will AA fall further behind UA and DL?


Zero chance. B767 is gone story.

Even before Covid, AA had surplus widebody, that is why they could fly summer route to places like Bologna and Dubrovnik.

TA rebound is not as great as you anticipated. So far none of the majors had increased flights for the rest of 2021. The future is still unclear. Some new routes announced for 2022 but there is no guarantee it would run. The overall capacity is unlikely to increase compare to 2019 or even 2017/2018. All majors are choosing a conservative approach.

AA won't fall behind UA and DL in transatlantic routes/traffic/capacity. Everyone is on the same boat. All predictions now point to a rebound to 2019 levels in several years time. Asia Pacific is not opening up until middle or late 2022, AA will have enough WB aircrafts from the transpacific route to more favourable transatlantic routes. The delayed B787 won't have any material impact on AA's operation at all until Q2 of 2022. By then it will work out by itself.
 
JohanTally
Posts: 455
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:00 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Is AA still gonna restart SYD in January?

I don't believe the final cuts for January have been finalized. AFAIK the New South Wales government hasn't set a date for arriving American tourists which I think will be essential for the resumption of the route.


That's true but AA and QF have a JV and there will continue to be a surge in demand for Australian nationals and non-Aussies who are allowed to travel to / from Australia so it would not be unexpected if AA maintains the resumption.

It's possible they would restart without a reciprocal agreement in place for US citizens if the belly cargo is high yielding.
 
JohanTally
Posts: 455
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:08 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Is AA still gonna restart SYD in January?

I don't believe the final cuts for January have been finalized. AFAIK the New South Wales government hasn't set a date for arriving American tourists which I think will be essential for the resumption of the route.


That's true but AA and QF have a JV and there will continue to be a surge in demand for Australian nationals and non-Aussies who are allowed to travel to / from Australia so it would not be unexpected if AA maintains the resumption.

The loads so far leaving SYD are pretty abysmal with only one flight with over 100 pax booked but going to SYD the load factors are much better so we'll see if that's US Travellers or Aussie citizens repatriating. If it's US citizens who aren't allowed to fly that will hurt the case for resumption.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:37 pm

seatback wrote:
What would it take to pull some 767's out of storage to compensate for the delayed 787s? With the expected TA rebound, will AA fall further behind UA and DL?


No chance on the 767. The remaining frames, except for the 2002 builds that were ordered to replace the high lease ex-TWA birds, were not in the best shape and part of the reason for the accelerated retirement aside from COVID and capacity cuts and fleet simplification, were mods that these frames likely would have required. Of the remaining 763s, many have been sold off, scrapped, or are likely no longer airworthy. The 76s had a lousy dispatch reliability track record at AA in their later years.

If there was a fleet type I could see come back on line, but it is such a long shot, are the A330-200s. They were pretty new, had the P/E cabin but not sure about type rating considerations with AA wide body fleet reduced to 777 and 787 only.
 
alpine1989
Posts: 74
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:20 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
seatback wrote:
What would it take to pull some 767's out of storage to compensate for the delayed 787s? With the expected TA rebound, will AA fall further behind UA and DL?


No chance on the 767. The remaining frames, except for the 2002 builds that were ordered to replace the high lease ex-TWA birds, were not in the best shape and part of the reason for the accelerated retirement aside from COVID and capacity cuts and fleet simplification, were mods that these frames likely would have required. Of the remaining 763s, many have been sold off, scrapped, or are likely no longer airworthy. The 76s had a lousy dispatch reliability track record at AA in their later years.

If there was a fleet type I could see come back on line, but it is such a long shot, are the A330-200s. They were pretty new, had the P/E cabin but not sure about type rating considerations with AA wide body fleet reduced to 777 and 787 only.


What was the dispatch reliability of the B763 fleet as compared to the rest of the widebody fleet?

Alpine
 
nc3rd
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:52 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:59 pm

So what new routes is AA going to announce before the end of the year? Or are they going to be on the sidelines for what will be the largest transatlantic year ever?
 
FSDan
Posts: 3510
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:33 pm

nc3rd wrote:
So what new routes is AA going to announce before the end of the year? Or are they going to be on the sidelines for what will be the largest transatlantic year ever?


Upthread it was mentioned that AA's waiting to announce TATL additions until they get more clarity on when Boeing will be able to deliver the delayed 788s.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4888
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 12:52 am

alpine1989 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
seatback wrote:
What would it take to pull some 767's out of storage to compensate for the delayed 787s? With the expected TA rebound, will AA fall further behind UA and DL?


No chance on the 767. The remaining frames, except for the 2002 builds that were ordered to replace the high lease ex-TWA birds, were not in the best shape and part of the reason for the accelerated retirement aside from COVID and capacity cuts and fleet simplification, were mods that these frames likely would have required. Of the remaining 763s, many have been sold off, scrapped, or are likely no longer airworthy. The 76s had a lousy dispatch reliability track record at AA in their later years.

If there was a fleet type I could see come back on line, but it is such a long shot, are the A330-200s. They were pretty new, had the P/E cabin but not sure about type rating considerations with AA wide body fleet reduced to 777 and 787 only.


What was the dispatch reliability of the B763 fleet as compared to the rest of the widebody fleet?

Alpine


I have no specifics but AA did acknowledge they were a drag on operations in prior statements and more prominently, on customer satisfaction. In their latter years of service and pre-pandemic, they were isolated to the PHL and MIA hubs. At JFK, they deliberately moved off TATL flights that still had them as a way to improve AA's competitiveness and offer a more consistent product on its portfolio of long haul flights out of JFK, which pre-COVID, were LHR, CDG, GRU, GIG (seasonal), FCO (seasonal), MXP, BCN, MAD, and EZE. The last two TATL routes to feature the 767-300ER out of JFK on AA were MAD and CDG, which were up gauged to the 777 in March 2019.

American underinvested in the 767 for years. It took shortcuts everywhere in terms of modifications. While it spent millions revamping the 777-200ER fleet, by removing First Class, redoing the interiors nose to tail, and installing premium economy later, the 767 never got that kind of thorough retrofit was essentially the same plane it was in 2020 before it was retired as it was in 1988 when deliveries began.

The Business Class cabin received a half-assed redo in the mid-2000s with 777 style signature interior limited to the forward business class cabin. Economy remained as is, with boxy overheads, the original bins, lighting, and passenger service consoles. They never had AVOD seat back screens installed (except for 9 2002 builds that were ordered to replace the inherited 763s from TWA that were on very high leases given TWA's poor credit rating).

Business Class was given a further revamp a few years ago with seats similar to what you find today on OS and LX, but the rest of the plane remained as is, save for seats being recovered in pleather. Delays were common. In short, AA took a very different approach to the 767-300 which was for almost 3 decades the workhorse of the long haul fleet, than DL and UA, which rebuilt theirs from the inside and out, extended their service life, and upgraded them entirely from nose to tail.
 
asuflyer
Posts: 788
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:30 am

alpine1989 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
seatback wrote:
What would it take to pull some 767's out of storage to compensate for the delayed 787s? With the expected TA rebound, will AA fall further behind UA and DL?


No chance on the 767. The remaining frames, except for the 2002 builds that were ordered to replace the high lease ex-TWA birds, were not in the best shape and part of the reason for the accelerated retirement aside from COVID and capacity cuts and fleet simplification, were mods that these frames likely would have required. Of the remaining 763s, many have been sold off, scrapped, or are likely no longer airworthy. The 76s had a lousy dispatch reliability track record at AA in their later years.

If there was a fleet type I could see come back on line, but it is such a long shot, are the A330-200s. They were pretty new, had the P/E cabin but not sure about type rating considerations with AA wide body fleet reduced to 777 and 787 only.


What was the dispatch reliability of the B763 fleet as compared to the rest of the widebody fleet?

Alpine


In the latter years reliability with the 767's was abysmal. Things really went downhill I would say around 2013-2015, with long delays and frequent MX diversions crossing the Atlantic.They lost multiple corporate contracts out of NYC because the conditions of the 767's were so poor, so they were eventually moved to PHL, where the market was less competitive. They had major issues with engines, hydraulic failures, air conditioning packs, the cabins were decrepit, the list went on and on. Even the newer series of 767's had their fair share of issues too, and the aircraft that had the engine failure and fire at ORD was one of the 'newer' build 767. Around the same time the 757's started frequently going tech as well.
 
sand26391
Posts: 741
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:47 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:08 am

I hear SEA-BLR will be pushed back to MARCH end 2022, apparently due to issues related with B789 deliveries.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4888
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:13 am

asuflyer wrote:
alpine1989 wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:

No chance on the 767. The remaining frames, except for the 2002 builds that were ordered to replace the high lease ex-TWA birds, were not in the best shape and part of the reason for the accelerated retirement aside from COVID and capacity cuts and fleet simplification, were mods that these frames likely would have required. Of the remaining 763s, many have been sold off, scrapped, or are likely no longer airworthy. The 76s had a lousy dispatch reliability track record at AA in their later years.

If there was a fleet type I could see come back on line, but it is such a long shot, are the A330-200s. They were pretty new, had the P/E cabin but not sure about type rating considerations with AA wide body fleet reduced to 777 and 787 only.


What was the dispatch reliability of the B763 fleet as compared to the rest of the widebody fleet?

Alpine


In the latter years reliability with the 767's was abysmal. Things really went downhill I would say around 2013-2015, with long delays and frequent MX diversions crossing the Atlantic.They lost multiple corporate contracts out of NYC because the conditions of the 767's were so poor, so they were eventually moved to PHL, where the market was less competitive. They had major issues with engines, hydraulic failures, air conditioning packs, the cabins were decrepit, the list went on and on. Even the newer series of 767's had their fair share of issues too, and the aircraft that had the engine failure and fire at ORD was one of the 'newer' build 767. Around the same time the 757's started frequently going tech as well.


That's all absolutely correct. Out of JFK, the 767s were a staple of TATL routes (ZRH, which was moved to PHL in 2015), CDG, MAD, MXP, BCN, and FCO in the 2013-2015 period and were absolutely a factor in AA losing some contracts out of JFK, including Credit Suisse, which, combined with DL adding JFK-ZRH at the time, resulted in the move to PHL. They were awful airplanes inside. Dated, dingy, and maintenance problems abounded. Yes, the 767 that caught fire at ORD was one of the "newer" build ones and was written off. They were isolated to PHL and used on tertiary TATL routes from there, and isolated to MIA where they flew a number of deep South America secondary routes, and they operated between JFK and MIA. Vasu Raja remarked in 2019 that once JFK was converted to all 777 long haul, it turned profitable, given the product consistency (sort of, if you exclude the variances in business class seats on the 772s), added cargo haul, and a more reliable operation. It was not uncommon for 767s headed out to Europe from JFK to divert back to JFK. Had AA invested in the plane, overhauled the fleet, and done to them what DL and UA accomplished, it might have had a cheaper to operate, fully paid plane on its hands to expand and experiment with routes. The 757s were also largely neglected and an awful ride from a passenger service point of view.

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