Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Runway765 wrote:Not surprising. These markets are really in a league of their own above other midsized cities/markets.
You are correct though about BNA. Considering the announcement the other day that they are building a satellite concourse, it appears WN is maneuvering to take some serious real estate there. AA will have a tough time.
Runway765 wrote:You are correct though about BNA. Considering the announcement the other day that they are building a satellite concourse, it appears WN is maneuvering to take some serious real estate there. AA will have a tough time.
Wneast wrote:Runway765 wrote:Not surprising. These markets are really in a league of their own above other midsized cities/markets.
You are correct though about BNA. Considering the announcement the other day that they are building a satellite concourse, it appears WN is maneuvering to take some serious real estate there. AA will have a tough time.
I’m sure WN will battle them out In BNA and AUS maybe even RDU but i if AA shrinks elsewhere like Chicago I’m sure WN will come in there and steal the real estate but southwest is going to put up a fight with AA too
Cubsrule wrote:Runway765 wrote:You are correct though about BNA. Considering the announcement the other day that they are building a satellite concourse, it appears WN is maneuvering to take some serious real estate there. AA will have a tough time.
It seems to me that to grow BNA, AA will have to convince some folks who are loyal to DL that it ought to be their "legacy of choice." I'm not convinced that AA can do that with just more destinations; they need to chance some of their customer-unfriendly policies (like the fact that I'm about to lose my AAdvantage miles - I last flew AA two months before the pandemic struck).
Cubsrule wrote:It seems to me that to grow BNA, AA will have to convince some folks who are loyal to DL that it ought to be their "legacy of choice." I'm not convinced that AA can do that with just more destinations; they need to chance some of their customer-unfriendly policies (like the fact that I'm about to lose my AAdvantage miles - I last flew AA two months before the pandemic struck).
Runway765 wrote:Cubsrule wrote:Runway765 wrote:You are correct though about BNA. Considering the announcement the other day that they are building a satellite concourse, it appears WN is maneuvering to take some serious real estate there. AA will have a tough time.
It seems to me that to grow BNA, AA will have to convince some folks who are loyal to DL that it ought to be their "legacy of choice." I'm not convinced that AA can do that with just more destinations; they need to chance some of their customer-unfriendly policies (like the fact that I'm about to lose my AAdvantage miles - I last flew AA two months before the pandemic struck).
This too, though I’d argue AA has a much better network from BNA than DL at this point.
But if WN ends up taking 30 or so gates at BNA in the future, there won’t be much more AA could do anyway without getting clobbered.
Cubsrule wrote:Runway765 wrote:Cubsrule wrote:
It seems to me that to grow BNA, AA will have to convince some folks who are loyal to DL that it ought to be their "legacy of choice." I'm not convinced that AA can do that with just more destinations; they need to chance some of their customer-unfriendly policies (like the fact that I'm about to lose my AAdvantage miles - I last flew AA two months before the pandemic struck).
This too, though I’d argue AA has a much better network from BNA than DL at this point.
But if WN ends up taking 30 or so gates at BNA in the future, there won’t be much more AA could do anyway without getting clobbered.
AA has a better set of destinations than DL at BNA and arguably has since before the merger. But DL has bottomless ATL service, which ameliorates lots of those advantages. You'd think that the hub structure would give AA a decided time advantage on stuff like BNA-OKC/ABQ, and in general I've not found that to be the case.
tphuang wrote:They can eye a lot of things and make route announcements, but the reality is that a lot of these new routes that they have announced or might announce are going to be huge money losers once WN retaliates.
The airline with the worst financial position should be careful about poking the airline with the best financial position. Sure, I get that they have a lot of ff in these places and a lot of business travelers prefer a legacy carrier. AA has real costs which it has not addressed, so would need huge revenue premium to make flights work.
Profitably expand is a strong phrase for an airline that could barely turn a profit pre-COVID.
SESGDL wrote:Given how much AA has reduced its fleet (70 737-800s, all 757s, all 767s, all A330s, all E190s), what will be at the expense of all this planned "growth?" Chicago? Philadelphia? Washington? Los Angeles? Apart from PHL, AA has hubs in some pretty competitive markets. We keep hearing about all this growth at spokes (BOS, JFK, AUS, BNA, RDU), but AA really doesn't have much room to grow without letting up at its hubs, and clearly DFW and CLT are priority for AA on the domestic front. Something will have to give, or this talk of growing at BNA, RDU and AUS will really just be small, incremental growth at target markets where there's a gap to fill.
Jeremy
Cubsrule wrote:Runway765 wrote:You are correct though about BNA. Considering the announcement the other day that they are building a satellite concourse, it appears WN is maneuvering to take some serious real estate there. AA will have a tough time.
It seems to me that to grow BNA, AA will have to convince some folks who are loyal to DL that it ought to be their "legacy of choice." I'm not convinced that AA can do that with just more destinations; they need to chance some of their customer-unfriendly policies (like the fact that I'm about to lose my AAdvantage miles - I last flew AA two months before the pandemic struck).
clrd4t8koff wrote:SESGDL wrote:Given how much AA has reduced its fleet (70 737-800s, all 757s, all 767s, all A330s, all E190s), what will be at the expense of all this planned "growth?" Chicago? Philadelphia? Washington? Los Angeles? Apart from PHL, AA has hubs in some pretty competitive markets. We keep hearing about all this growth at spokes (BOS, JFK, AUS, BNA, RDU), but AA really doesn't have much room to grow without letting up at its hubs, and clearly DFW and CLT are priority for AA on the domestic front. Something will have to give, or this talk of growing at BNA, RDU and AUS will really just be small, incremental growth at target markets where there's a gap to fill.
Jeremy
While the 757, 767, A330 and E190's are permanently retired, I'd assume all the 737-800's will be reactivated soon. Didn't AA recently announce their whole fleet will be flying again by the end of May?
TWFlyGuy wrote:Cubsrule wrote:Runway765 wrote:You are correct though about BNA. Considering the announcement the other day that they are building a satellite concourse, it appears WN is maneuvering to take some serious real estate there. AA will have a tough time.
It seems to me that to grow BNA, AA will have to convince some folks who are loyal to DL that it ought to be their "legacy of choice." I'm not convinced that AA can do that with just more destinations; they need to chance some of their customer-unfriendly policies (like the fact that I'm about to lose my AAdvantage miles - I last flew AA two months before the pandemic struck).
To be fair, there are plenty of ways to keep your miles active. Buy some, use the credit card, send someone flowers, go to a restaurant.
As for being the legacy of choice I think a lot of travelers would give nonstops on AA a chance over DL because when nonstop isn't an option, AA has better hub options. East to CLT, West to DFW for southern connections or ORD for Northern connections. UA is probably more of a comparison.
SESGDL wrote:Given how much AA has reduced its fleet (70 737-800s, all 757s, all 767s, all A330s, all E190s), what will be at the expense of all this planned "growth?" Chicago? Philadelphia? Washington? Los Angeles? Apart from PHL, AA has hubs in some pretty competitive markets. We keep hearing about all this growth at spokes (BOS, JFK, AUS, BNA, RDU), but AA really doesn't have much room to grow without letting up at its hubs, and clearly DFW and CLT are priority for AA on the domestic front. Something will have to give, or this talk of growing at BNA, RDU and AUS will really just be small, incremental growth at target markets where there's a gap to fill.
Jeremy
PHLspecial wrote:SESGDL wrote:Given how much AA has reduced its fleet (70 737-800s, all 757s, all 767s, all A330s, all E190s), what will be at the expense of all this planned "growth?" Chicago? Philadelphia? Washington? Los Angeles? Apart from PHL, AA has hubs in some pretty competitive markets. We keep hearing about all this growth at spokes (BOS, JFK, AUS, BNA, RDU), but AA really doesn't have much room to grow without letting up at its hubs, and clearly DFW and CLT are priority for AA on the domestic front. Something will have to give, or this talk of growing at BNA, RDU and AUS will really just be small, incremental growth at target markets where there's a gap to fill.
Jeremy
I keep joking about PHL getting dehubbed. It's slowly looking less and less focus can be put on PHL. In the future PHL most likely will be a reliver hub for JFK. PHL most likely have flights to Florida and the islands maybe a couple of TATL routes that can't be served from JFK. AUS, BNA, and RDU are great growing cities unlike Philadelphia or Chicago. Short term PHL will be scaled back (180 flights a day), long term no idea. The other three cities can have over 50 flights a day with this growth rate.
PHLspecial wrote:SESGDL wrote:Given how much AA has reduced its fleet (70 737-800s, all 757s, all 767s, all A330s, all E190s), what will be at the expense of all this planned "growth?" Chicago? Philadelphia? Washington? Los Angeles? Apart from PHL, AA has hubs in some pretty competitive markets. We keep hearing about all this growth at spokes (BOS, JFK, AUS, BNA, RDU), but AA really doesn't have much room to grow without letting up at its hubs, and clearly DFW and CLT are priority for AA on the domestic front. Something will have to give, or this talk of growing at BNA, RDU and AUS will really just be small, incremental growth at target markets where there's a gap to fill.
Jeremy
I keep joking about PHL getting dehubbed. It's slowly looking less and less focus can be put on PHL. In the future PHL most likely will be a reliver hub for JFK. PHL most likely have flights to Florida and the islands maybe a couple of TATL routes that can't be served from JFK. AUS, BNA, and RDU are great growing cities unlike Philadelphia or Chicago. Short term PHL will be scaled back (180 flights a day), long term no idea. The other three cities can have over 50 flights a day with this growth rate.
tphuang wrote:It would be so stupid for AA to make PHL a reliever hub. Aside from ULCC, either WN or B6 will move into PHL if AA forgets about it for a long period of time.
tphuang wrote:It would be so stupid for AA to make PHL a reliever hub. Aside from ULCC, either WN or B6 will move into PHL if AA forgets about it for a long period of time.
tphuang wrote:PHLspecial wrote:SESGDL wrote:Given how much AA has reduced its fleet (70 737-800s, all 757s, all 767s, all A330s, all E190s), what will be at the expense of all this planned "growth?" Chicago? Philadelphia? Washington? Los Angeles? Apart from PHL, AA has hubs in some pretty competitive markets. We keep hearing about all this growth at spokes (BOS, JFK, AUS, BNA, RDU), but AA really doesn't have much room to grow without letting up at its hubs, and clearly DFW and CLT are priority for AA on the domestic front. Something will have to give, or this talk of growing at BNA, RDU and AUS will really just be small, incremental growth at target markets where there's a gap to fill.
Jeremy
I keep joking about PHL getting dehubbed. It's slowly looking less and less focus can be put on PHL. In the future PHL most likely will be a reliver hub for JFK. PHL most likely have flights to Florida and the islands maybe a couple of TATL routes that can't be served from JFK. AUS, BNA, and RDU are great growing cities unlike Philadelphia or Chicago. Short term PHL will be scaled back (180 flights a day), long term no idea. The other three cities can have over 50 flights a day with this growth rate.
It would be so stupid for AA to make PHL a reliever hub. Aside from ULCC, either WN or B6 will move into PHL if AA forgets about it for a long period of time.
DL747400 wrote:Cubsrule wrote:It seems to me that to grow BNA, AA will have to convince some folks who are loyal to DL that it ought to be their "legacy of choice." I'm not convinced that AA can do that with just more destinations; they need to chance some of their customer-unfriendly policies (like the fact that I'm about to lose my AAdvantage miles - I last flew AA two months before the pandemic struck).
Totally agree. To win business away from competitors, AA is going to have to do quite a bit more than simply show up and say, "We're here!" It will cost them in some way. In effect, they will have to figure out how to "buy" the business they want and brush aside the business that doesn't help them reach their goals.
All carriers need to generate revenue right now in order to move in the direction of recovery. AA is worse off than others. They need to generate LOTS of revenue and sustain it. The race is on to chip away at the staggering debt before it swallows them whole.
Midwestindy wrote:In XYZ market, if AA is offering service to 15 out of the top 20 markets, and DL is offering service to only 7 out of the top 20 markets AA is going to have a significant advantage over DL. Whether it is in corporate travel agreements, where AA now can win over a larger share of a businesses' travel, or from a leisure standpoint where AA is now more convenient.
Cubsrule wrote:Midwestindy wrote:In XYZ market, if AA is offering service to 15 out of the top 20 markets, and DL is offering service to only 7 out of the top 20 markets AA is going to have a significant advantage over DL. Whether it is in corporate travel agreements, where AA now can win over a larger share of a businesses' travel, or from a leisure standpoint where AA is now more convenient.
In the abstract of course that’s true, but will AA really get to 15 of the top 20 business markets from BNA? They aren’t ever going to open ATL or DTW (big auto industry ties), for instance.
The BNA dynamic might be more like WN serving 18 or 19 of the top 20, DL serving 7 or 8, and AA serving 11 or 12. And in that scenario, I’m not sure AA has a significant advantage amongst legacies, especially if WN has a frequency and/or airport convenience advantage on some of those markets AA serves and DL doesn’t (for the foreseeable future, that will be true in the likes of CHI, DAL, and AUS).
Cubsrule wrote:Midwestindy wrote:In XYZ market, if AA is offering service to 15 out of the top 20 markets, and DL is offering service to only 7 out of the top 20 markets AA is going to have a significant advantage over DL. Whether it is in corporate travel agreements, where AA now can win over a larger share of a businesses' travel, or from a leisure standpoint where AA is now more convenient.
In the abstract of course that’s true, but will AA really get to 15 of the top 20 business markets from BNA? They aren’t ever going to open ATL or DTW (big auto industry ties), for instance.
The BNA dynamic might be more like WN serving 18 or 19 of the top 20, DL serving 7 or 8, and AA serving 11 or 12. And in that scenario, I’m not sure AA has a significant advantage amongst legacies, especially if WN has a frequency and/or airport convenience advantage on some of those markets AA serves and DL doesn’t (for the foreseeable future, that will be true in the likes of CHI, DAL, and AUS).
Runway765 wrote:Cubsrule wrote:Midwestindy wrote:In XYZ market, if AA is offering service to 15 out of the top 20 markets, and DL is offering service to only 7 out of the top 20 markets AA is going to have a significant advantage over DL. Whether it is in corporate travel agreements, where AA now can win over a larger share of a businesses' travel, or from a leisure standpoint where AA is now more convenient.
In the abstract of course that’s true, but will AA really get to 15 of the top 20 business markets from BNA? They aren’t ever going to open ATL or DTW (big auto industry ties), for instance.
The BNA dynamic might be more like WN serving 18 or 19 of the top 20, DL serving 7 or 8, and AA serving 11 or 12. And in that scenario, I’m not sure AA has a significant advantage amongst legacies, especially if WN has a frequency and/or airport convenience advantage on some of those markets AA serves and DL doesn’t (for the foreseeable future, that will be true in the likes of CHI, DAL, and AUS).
The thing I wonder about BNA the most is, if WN were to get to 200+ flights, would ANY legacy be able to command a decent share of the market? AUS and RDU likely won't have that issue as they don't have a single carrier with the scale WN has at BNA.
Midwestindy wrote:Cubsrule wrote:Midwestindy wrote:In XYZ market, if AA is offering service to 15 out of the top 20 markets, and DL is offering service to only 7 out of the top 20 markets AA is going to have a significant advantage over DL. Whether it is in corporate travel agreements, where AA now can win over a larger share of a businesses' travel, or from a leisure standpoint where AA is now more convenient.
In the abstract of course that’s true, but will AA really get to 15 of the top 20 business markets from BNA? They aren’t ever going to open ATL or DTW (big auto industry ties), for instance.
The BNA dynamic might be more like WN serving 18 or 19 of the top 20, DL serving 7 or 8, and AA serving 11 or 12. And in that scenario, I’m not sure AA has a significant advantage amongst legacies, especially if WN has a frequency and/or airport convenience advantage on some of those markets AA serves and DL doesn’t (for the foreseeable future, that will be true in the likes of CHI, DAL, and AUS).
Using Q3 2019:
The top 10 markets from BNA were: 1. NYC, 2. LA, 3. CHI, 4. BOS, 5. DC, 6. DFW, 7. DEN, 8. MIA, 9. PHL, 10. SF
So AA (& partners) serve all of BNA's top 6 markets, and 8 out of the top 10. DL serves 3.
If you break it out to top 25 markets, AA(& partners) still serve double the amount of markets that DL does, plus they have TATL thanks to BA.
AA serves 12 out of the top 20, so with LAS & TPA being places where AA is already adding p2p, those aren't far fetched additions, and if PHX surpasses ATL in O&D(they are essentially the same size O&D wise) that will get them to 15 out of the top 20.
UALFAson wrote:Runway765 wrote:Cubsrule wrote:
In the abstract of course that’s true, but will AA really get to 15 of the top 20 business markets from BNA? They aren’t ever going to open ATL or DTW (big auto industry ties), for instance.
The BNA dynamic might be more like WN serving 18 or 19 of the top 20, DL serving 7 or 8, and AA serving 11 or 12. And in that scenario, I’m not sure AA has a significant advantage amongst legacies, especially if WN has a frequency and/or airport convenience advantage on some of those markets AA serves and DL doesn’t (for the foreseeable future, that will be true in the likes of CHI, DAL, and AUS).
The thing I wonder about BNA the most is, if WN were to get to 200+ flights, would ANY legacy be able to command a decent share of the market? AUS and RDU likely won't have that issue as they don't have a single carrier with the scale WN has at BNA.
I think you're both missing the point. No one honestly believes AA or DL is going to overtake WN for #1 at BNA. The question/point is, with so much growth and so much money flowing into the Nashville region, can AA become a strong enough #2 behind WN here to make some serious $, similar to how they are a solid #2 to UA at ORD but on a smaller scale.
Cubsrule, you yourself have said, travelers here are loyal to Southwest AND (American OR Delta). What it sounds like AA is trying to do is gain more of the people who might have DL as their #2 or get people to increase the proportion of flying they will do on AA vs WN.
Everything east of DEN is a 2-hour flight from BNA, which means you're getting a cup of a beverage and a cookie no matter who you fly, so service isn't really THAT differentiating of a factor. I agree with midwestindy that AA's route network out of BNA is far superior to DL's, which is the main reason why I switched allegiance from UA to AA when I moved here. American is just saying there's an opportunity for them to build loyalty with people like me who are relocating to BNA and these other cities who want a full-service carrier with a global footprint. UA's the one picking a fight with WN at DEN--I don't see that as what AA is trying to do in these 3 cities.
Cubsrule wrote:Midwestindy wrote:Cubsrule wrote:
In the abstract of course that’s true, but will AA really get to 15 of the top 20 business markets from BNA? They aren’t ever going to open ATL or DTW (big auto industry ties), for instance.
The BNA dynamic might be more like WN serving 18 or 19 of the top 20, DL serving 7 or 8, and AA serving 11 or 12. And in that scenario, I’m not sure AA has a significant advantage amongst legacies, especially if WN has a frequency and/or airport convenience advantage on some of those markets AA serves and DL doesn’t (for the foreseeable future, that will be true in the likes of CHI, DAL, and AUS).
Using Q3 2019:
The top 10 markets from BNA were: 1. NYC, 2. LA, 3. CHI, 4. BOS, 5. DC, 6. DFW, 7. DEN, 8. MIA, 9. PHL, 10. SF
So AA (& partners) serve all of BNA's top 6 markets, and 8 out of the top 10. DL serves 3.
If you break it out to top 25 markets, AA(& partners) still serve double the amount of markets that DL does, plus they have TATL thanks to BA.
AA serves 12 out of the top 20, so with LAS & TPA being places where AA is already adding p2p, those aren't far fetched additions, and if PHX surpasses ATL in O&D(they are essentially the same size O&D wise) that will get them to 15 out of the top 20.
Thinking about Q319, of the top 6, WN had a frequency advantage in three, flew to multiple airports in three, and flew to the preferred O&D airport in two others. So where, exactly, is the advantage for AA?
I don’t really like WN, but if their schedule is better I’ll fly them every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
UALFAson wrote:Runway765 wrote:Cubsrule wrote:
In the abstract of course that’s true, but will AA really get to 15 of the top 20 business markets from BNA? They aren’t ever going to open ATL or DTW (big auto industry ties), for instance.
The BNA dynamic might be more like WN serving 18 or 19 of the top 20, DL serving 7 or 8, and AA serving 11 or 12. And in that scenario, I’m not sure AA has a significant advantage amongst legacies, especially if WN has a frequency and/or airport convenience advantage on some of those markets AA serves and DL doesn’t (for the foreseeable future, that will be true in the likes of CHI, DAL, and AUS).
The thing I wonder about BNA the most is, if WN were to get to 200+ flights, would ANY legacy be able to command a decent share of the market? AUS and RDU likely won't have that issue as they don't have a single carrier with the scale WN has at BNA.
I think you're both missing the point. No one honestly believes AA or DL is going to overtake WN for #1 at BNA. The question/point is, with so much growth and so much money flowing into the Nashville region, can AA become a strong enough #2 behind WN here to make some serious $, similar to how they are a solid #2 to UA at ORD but on a smaller scale.
Cubsrule, you yourself have said, travelers here are loyal to Southwest AND (American OR Delta). What it sounds like AA is trying to do is gain more of the people who might have DL as their #2 or get people to increase the proportion of flying they will do on AA vs WN.
Everything east of DEN is a 2-hour flight from BNA, which means you're getting a cup of a beverage and a cookie no matter who you fly, so service isn't really THAT differentiating of a factor. I agree with midwestindy that AA's route network out of BNA is far superior to DL's, which is the main reason why I switched allegiance from UA to AA when I moved here. American is just saying there's an opportunity for them to build loyalty with people like me who are relocating to BNA and these other cities who want a full-service carrier with a global footprint. UA's the one picking a fight with WN at DEN--I don't see that as what AA is trying to do in these 3 cities.
Midwestindy wrote:Cubsrule wrote:Midwestindy wrote:
Using Q3 2019:
The top 10 markets from BNA were: 1. NYC, 2. LA, 3. CHI, 4. BOS, 5. DC, 6. DFW, 7. DEN, 8. MIA, 9. PHL, 10. SF
So AA (& partners) serve all of BNA's top 6 markets, and 8 out of the top 10. DL serves 3.
If you break it out to top 25 markets, AA(& partners) still serve double the amount of markets that DL does, plus they have TATL thanks to BA.
AA serves 12 out of the top 20, so with LAS & TPA being places where AA is already adding p2p, those aren't far fetched additions, and if PHX surpasses ATL in O&D(they are essentially the same size O&D wise) that will get them to 15 out of the top 20.
Thinking about Q319, of the top 6, WN had a frequency advantage in three, flew to multiple airports in three, and flew to the preferred O&D airport in two others. So where, exactly, is the advantage for AA?
I don’t really like WN, but if their schedule is better I’ll fly them every day of the week and twice on Sunday.UALFAson wrote:Runway765 wrote:
The thing I wonder about BNA the most is, if WN were to get to 200+ flights, would ANY legacy be able to command a decent share of the market? AUS and RDU likely won't have that issue as they don't have a single carrier with the scale WN has at BNA.
I think you're both missing the point. No one honestly believes AA or DL is going to overtake WN for #1 at BNA. The question/point is, with so much growth and so much money flowing into the Nashville region, can AA become a strong enough #2 behind WN here to make some serious $, similar to how they are a solid #2 to UA at ORD but on a smaller scale.
Cubsrule, you yourself have said, travelers here are loyal to Southwest AND (American OR Delta). What it sounds like AA is trying to do is gain more of the people who might have DL as their #2 or get people to increase the proportion of flying they will do on AA vs WN.
Everything east of DEN is a 2-hour flight from BNA, which means you're getting a cup of a beverage and a cookie no matter who you fly, so service isn't really THAT differentiating of a factor. I agree with midwestindy that AA's route network out of BNA is far superior to DL's, which is the main reason why I switched allegiance from UA to AA when I moved here. American is just saying there's an opportunity for them to build loyalty with people like me who are relocating to BNA and these other cities who want a full-service carrier with a global footprint. UA's the one picking a fight with WN at DEN--I don't see that as what AA is trying to do in these 3 cities.
Thanks UALFAson for the clarification, the original discussion was about AA vs. DL being the "legacy of choice." I never was trying to say AA was somehow #1 over WN in BNA.
Runway765 wrote:Not surprising. These markets are really in a league of their own above other midsized cities/markets.
You are correct though about BNA. Considering the announcement the other day that they are building a satellite concourse, it appears WN is maneuvering to take some serious real estate there. AA will have a tough time.
Jshank83 wrote:Runway765 wrote:Not surprising. These markets are really in a league of their own above other midsized cities/markets.
You are correct though about BNA. Considering the announcement the other day that they are building a satellite concourse, it appears WN is maneuvering to take some serious real estate there. AA will have a tough time.
I don’t get this WN is god at BNA stuff. IF AA wants gates I am sure they will get some. WN won’t get everything if others want some. The airport isn’t going to just say no and give it all to WN “IF” others want in.
Runway765 wrote:Jshank83 wrote:Runway765 wrote:Not surprising. These markets are really in a league of their own above other midsized cities/markets.
You are correct though about BNA. Considering the announcement the other day that they are building a satellite concourse, it appears WN is maneuvering to take some serious real estate there. AA will have a tough time.
I don’t get this WN is god at BNA stuff. IF AA wants gates I am sure they will get some. WN won’t get everything if others want some. The airport isn’t going to just say no and give it all to WN “IF” others want in.
WN will get what they want as they are, like in STL, the “anchor” so to speak in BNA. The airport already gave WN the whole of D and I see no reason they won’t get the satellite and the rest of C if they request it. If the likes of NK, F9, etc, want more gates, they can build the additional 7 gates on A north for themselves.
AA has 8 gates and wasn’t even fully utilizing them pre-COVID. Now they have more reasons to utilize them all.
Jshank83 wrote:Runway765 wrote:Jshank83 wrote:
I don’t get this WN is god at BNA stuff. IF AA wants gates I am sure they will get some. WN won’t get everything if others want some. The airport isn’t going to just say no and give it all to WN “IF” others want in.
WN will get what they want as they are, like in STL, the “anchor” so to speak in BNA. The airport already gave WN the whole of D and I see no reason they won’t get the satellite and the rest of C if they request it. If the likes of NK, F9, etc, want more gates, they can build the additional 7 gates on A north for themselves.
AA has 8 gates and wasn’t even fully utilizing them pre-COVID. Now they have more reasons to utilize them all.
I just don’t think that’s how it works. WN gets the world and the other airlines are told to screw off. Unless WN is paying for all the expansion themselves, which I doubt, the expansion falls on all airlines to pay for it out of fees. So if they want something I’d guess they have a shot. Will WN get most everything? Sure but I can’t see them being able to shut out everyone else.
PHLspecial wrote:tphuang wrote:It would be so stupid for AA to make PHL a reliever hub. Aside from ULCC, either WN or B6 will move into PHL if AA forgets about it for a long period of time.
Well hence why I said its a short term problem. Long term I have no idea when AA wants to take on more aircraft. I doubt B6 or WN would expand operations in PHL. B6 will continue to grow LGA, JFK, EWR in the comments that I have read. WN is quite weak in the northeast with BWI 100 miles away. I agree what I said is stupid but I do see PHL getting cut in the short term.
usairways85 wrote:You know that AA is running more than 180 flights/day at PHL now?
runner13 wrote:Think about the future employees that will be working for Amazon, Facebook, and Oracle in Nashville. All of these jobs will be six figures plus and those people will want to fly. I imagine AA is wanting to get those flyers that will be wanting to fly first class as well as corporate accounts. Just my opinion though
clrd4t8koff wrote:SESGDL wrote:Given how much AA has reduced its fleet (70 737-800s, all 757s, all 767s, all A330s, all E190s), what will be at the expense of all this planned "growth?" Chicago? Philadelphia? Washington? Los Angeles? Apart from PHL, AA has hubs in some pretty competitive markets. We keep hearing about all this growth at spokes (BOS, JFK, AUS, BNA, RDU), but AA really doesn't have much room to grow without letting up at its hubs, and clearly DFW and CLT are priority for AA on the domestic front. Something will have to give, or this talk of growing at BNA, RDU and AUS will really just be small, incremental growth at target markets where there's a gap to fill.
Jeremy
While the 757, 767, A330 and E190's are permanently retired, I'd assume all the 737-800's will be reactivated soon. Didn't AA recently announce their whole fleet will be flying again by the end of May?
SESGDL wrote:clrd4t8koff wrote:
While the 757, 767, A330 and E190's are permanently retired, I'd assume all the 737-800's will be reactivated soon. Didn't AA recently announce their whole fleet will be flying again by the end of May?
Not to my knowledge. I had read that nearly 70 737-800s are being removed from the fleet. Perhaps that has changed.
Jeremy
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:As much as anything, all of this feels like a strategic shot fired at DL. All three were markets were being emphasized by DL prior to the pandemic, even though "DL focus city" had yet to mean anything at AUS and BNA. WN is obviously a target here as well, but it just feels like this is meant for DL as much as anyone.
This will be fun to watch.
Midwestindy wrote:"Certainly in those three cities, and a handful of others out there, there's real opportunity to go and profitably expand"