Hello, sorry if this has been discussed previously, but I see that AA 1173 O'hare-Orlando for the last few days has been upticked to the 777 and 787. This is the first time I've seen AA with the 787 at MCO. Is this temporary or is it going to stay a while?

crownvic wrote:

Hello, sorry if this has been discussed previously, but I see that AA 1173 O'hare-Orlando for the last few days has been upticked to the 777 and 787. This is the first time I've seen AA with the 787 at MCO. Is this temporary or is it going to stay a while?

The 777-200ER on June 10 was likely a one-off upgauge to replace the 787-9 due to some issue considering it left six hours late.

AA has currently scheduled the daily 787-9 on ORD-MCO until August 16.

AA will also introduce the 787-8 to Orlando with a daily PHL-MCO running from July 1 through August 16.

Ishrion wrote:

crownvic wrote:

Hello, sorry if this has been discussed previously, but I see that AA 1173 O'hare-Orlando for the last few days has been upticked to the 777 and 787. This is the first time I've seen AA with the 787 at MCO. Is this temporary or is it going to stay a while?

The 777-200ER on June 10 was likely a one-off upgauge to replace the 787-9 due to some issue considering it left six hours late.

AA has currently scheduled the daily 787-9 on ORD-MCO until August 16.

AA will also introduce the 787-8 to Orlando with a daily PHL-MCO running from July 1 through August 16.

Thank you, its nice to see the AA 787 here for the first time on regularly scheduled service!

Schedule updated through 10/6. Seeing lots of cuts at ORD and PHL, in particular...

Any changes regarding the international routes with the new schedule that was just uploaded?

AUS-IAD received a small cut. Won't operate on Saturdays through October 2. On Tuesdays it drops from 2x to 1x frequency through the first week of October.

Detroit313 wrote:

Any changes regarding the international routes with the new schedule that was just uploaded?

I compiled a list yesterday, pasting it over:

From Philadelphia (PHL):

Paris (CDG) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30
Barcelona (BCN) - Delayed from August 17 to March 27, 2022
Rome (FCO) - Delayed from August 17 to September 9, reduce from 1x daily to 4x weekly
Madrid (MAD) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30

From Charlotte (CLT):

Frankfurt (FRA) - Delayed from August 17 to October 7
Madrid (MAD) - Delayed from August 17 to March 27, 2022

From New York (JFK):

Barcelona (BCN) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30

From Miami (MIA):

Paris (CDG) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30

From Chicago (ORD):

Paris (CDG) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30
Rome (FCO) - Delayed from August 17 to September 11, reduce from daily to 4x weekly.

From London (LHR):

Phoenix (PHX) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30
Raleigh/Durham (RDU) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30

So, what is starting in August from PHL? Athens?

AC4500 wrote:

Schedule updated through 10/6. Seeing lots of cuts at ORD and PHL, in particular...

Those are the AA hubs whose demand/yields suffer the most outside summer (especially in an environment with less business travel, I'd think), so the cuts seem fairly intuitive.

So, it seems like only Athens survived in Philadelphia for August resumption!

The bookings are pretty strong like from ORD and JFK!

Scheduled to start August 17th.

Ishrion wrote:

AUS-IAD received a small cut. Won't operate on Saturdays through October 2. On Tuesdays it drops from 2x to 1x frequency through the first week of October.

Detroit313 wrote:

Any changes regarding the international routes with the new schedule that was just uploaded?

I compiled a list yesterday, pasting it over:

From Philadelphia (PHL):

Paris (CDG) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30
Barcelona (BCN) - Delayed from August 17 to March 27, 2022
Rome (FCO) - Delayed from August 17 to September 9, reduce from 1x daily to 4x weekly
Madrid (MAD) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30

From Charlotte (CLT):

Frankfurt (FRA) - Delayed from August 17 to October 7
Madrid (MAD) - Delayed from August 17 to March 27, 2022

From New York (JFK):

Barcelona (BCN) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30

From Miami (MIA):

Paris (CDG) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30

From Chicago (ORD):

Paris (CDG) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30
Rome (FCO) - Delayed from August 17 to September 11, reduce from daily to 4x weekly.

From London (LHR):

Phoenix (PHX) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30
Raleigh/Durham (RDU) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30

Have the BCN cuts been loaded yet? I'm still seeing PHL and JFK on sale prior to the delayed start dates.

Brickell305 wrote:

Ishrion wrote:

AUS-IAD received a small cut. Won't operate on Saturdays through October 2. On Tuesdays it drops from 2x to 1x frequency through the first week of October.

Detroit313 wrote:

Any changes regarding the international routes with the new schedule that was just uploaded?

I compiled a list yesterday, pasting it over:

From Philadelphia (PHL):

Paris (CDG) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30
Barcelona (BCN) - Delayed from August 17 to March 27, 2022
Rome (FCO) - Delayed from August 17 to September 9, reduce from 1x daily to 4x weekly
Madrid (MAD) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30

From Charlotte (CLT):

Frankfurt (FRA) - Delayed from August 17 to October 7
Madrid (MAD) - Delayed from August 17 to March 27, 2022

From New York (JFK):

Barcelona (BCN) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30

From Miami (MIA):

Paris (CDG) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30

From Chicago (ORD):

Paris (CDG) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30
Rome (FCO) - Delayed from August 17 to September 11, reduce from daily to 4x weekly.

From London (LHR):

Phoenix (PHX) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30
Raleigh/Durham (RDU) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30

Have the BCN cuts been loaded yet? I'm still seeing PHL and JFK on sale prior to the delayed start dates.

These have been loaded. Are you looking through aa.com? AA's bookings show PHL-BCN removed for 2021 and JFK-BCN delayed to October 30.

Ishrion wrote:

Brickell305 wrote:

Ishrion wrote:

AUS-IAD received a small cut. Won't operate on Saturdays through October 2. On Tuesdays it drops from 2x to 1x frequency through the first week of October.



I compiled a list yesterday, pasting it over:

From Philadelphia (PHL):

Paris (CDG) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30
Barcelona (BCN) - Delayed from August 17 to March 27, 2022
Rome (FCO) - Delayed from August 17 to September 9, reduce from 1x daily to 4x weekly
Madrid (MAD) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30

From Charlotte (CLT):

Frankfurt (FRA) - Delayed from August 17 to October 7
Madrid (MAD) - Delayed from August 17 to March 27, 2022

From New York (JFK):

Barcelona (BCN) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30

From Miami (MIA):

Paris (CDG) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30

From Chicago (ORD):

Paris (CDG) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30
Rome (FCO) - Delayed from August 17 to September 11, reduce from daily to 4x weekly.

From London (LHR):

Phoenix (PHX) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30
Raleigh/Durham (RDU) - Delayed from August 17 to October 30

Have the BCN cuts been loaded yet? I'm still seeing PHL and JFK on sale prior to the delayed start dates.

These have been loaded. Are you looking through aa.com? AA's bookings show PHL-BCN removed for 2021 and JFK-BCN delayed to October 30.

No. My mistake. I was using Google Flights and clearly they haven’t been fully updated yet. Once you get to aa.com to finalize, you see the error. Thanks.

October 30th sounds like the next check point / end of schedule where I wouldn't be surprised to see many of these routes simply suspended until S22.

Anyone know what is going on with AA478.

Second night in a row it diverted to STL. Supposed to be PHX-PHL.

Jshank83 wrote:

Anyone know what is going on with AA478.

Second night in a row it diverted to STL. Supposed to be PHX-PHL.

EDIT: apparently it’s a refueling stop due to weight issues. I get it’s been really hot in PHX but I would think an A321 should have plenty of range for PHX-PHL even with lower fuel. But obviously I don’t really know. Interesting.

What?? Don't people want to connect to Europe late this summer???

So, let me get this straight. There are more flights right now from AA's not-TATL-gateway station at JFK than there are from their TATL-gateway hub at PHL. What gives???

PSA727 wrote:

What?? Don't people want to connect to Europe late this summer???

So, let me get this straight. There are more flights right now from AA's not-TATL-gateway station at JFK than there are from their TATL-gateway hub at PHL. What gives???

Just my take but leisure and business demand to Europe is extremely low. As such, PHL, which depends not just on O&D but significantly on connections as well, is doing poorly. NYC which has a larger VFR segment, which has been less affected demand wise and higher leisure than PHL currently simply makes more sense as there is more demand from there currently. Any connections that might have otherwise gone over PHL can be re-routed over JFK for the time being.

Anyone know what’s going on in November? I’m seeing a much smaller schedule in November compared to October.

PSA727 wrote:

What?? Don't people want to connect to Europe late this summer???

So, let me get this straight. There are more flights right now from AA's not-TATL-gateway station at JFK than there are from their TATL-gateway hub at PHL. What gives???

JFK is a TATL gateway for AA. It's just not as big as PHL. Demand to Europe is, right now, muted at best, and focused around a few destinations with few entry restrictions. The PHL gateway works as a connecting hub. At JFK, AA outsources much of that feed to B6, as part of the partnership and it is early days in that. JFK will feature much more prominently in AA's long haul intercontinental network than it has in years, as a consequence of the partnership and AA chasing corporate traffic in the biggest O&D market in the country, NYC. More of PHL's TATL network will come back slowly, but Vasu Raja has signaled the AA long haul network will be significantly smaller and more focused coming out of the pandemic than it was previously, which means JFK, MIA, DFW will remain the priority. CLT to some extent, because of its size. ORD will be seasonal for the most part, with PHL pretty much status quo with not a lot of growth. I'd expect some PHL routes to move to JFK (ZRH, for instance, which moved from JFK to PHL in 2015) and potentially one more.

The EU is set to lift many curbs on US entry this week, but it likely won't be enough to assure more demand this summer (maybe some, but not huge volumes).

ContinentalEWR wrote:

rjbesikof wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

I doubt it, but if one were to operate year-round, even if not daily, I would think either PHL or JFK over ORD. The issue with US-ATH is that outside of summer and specifically peak summer (plus shoulder), traffic falls off a cliff. Business demand is little to non-existent. Most of what travels outside of the summer is VFR, but to be fair, the market has not had a direct, year round flight other than EK's EWR-ATH. PHL would generate feed (so would ORD, but its an even longer stage length and the 787 would likely be needed for something else in the winter), and JFK would have the mix of B6 feed + potentially higher yielding traffic, though with DL and EK in the mix, there's probably enough between the two of them to meet whatever the market demand would be in what is a slow period for demand, outside of cargo. My sense is AA will keep ATH seasonal for now and see how it goes. It is going to 3 flights from 2 (ORD was a very successful launch and PHL did well all prior to the pandemic).

Did they internally announce that PHL-ATH was not coming back this year? It is tentatively scheduled to resume in Mid August.

It's not clear. Supposedly, PHL-ATH per AA was not supposed to be restarted this year owing to crew scheduling issues involving this flight specifically out of ATH, as a consequence of the A330 retirement and the inability of all former A330 routes to be fully staffed, piloted, etc...or something like that, but AA has plenty of wide body capacity to spare and if the bookings on ORD-ATH and JFK-ATH are strong, they could theoretically resume PHL-ATH for a shorter season. They have 6 777s operating MIA-LAX. One of those or more could come off. I guess we will see.

With the most recent schedule run, PHL-ATH will run from 8/17. They supposedly cut the route from June to 8/17 due to staffing issues. What changed that they will now operate the route?

rjbesikof wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

rjbesikof wrote:

Did they internally announce that PHL-ATH was not coming back this year? It is tentatively scheduled to resume in Mid August.

It's not clear. Supposedly, PHL-ATH per AA was not supposed to be restarted this year owing to crew scheduling issues involving this flight specifically out of ATH, as a consequence of the A330 retirement and the inability of all former A330 routes to be fully staffed, piloted, etc...or something like that, but AA has plenty of wide body capacity to spare and if the bookings on ORD-ATH and JFK-ATH are strong, they could theoretically resume PHL-ATH for a shorter season. They have 6 777s operating MIA-LAX. One of those or more could come off. I guess we will see.

With the most recent schedule run, PHL-ATH will run from 8/17. They supposedly cut the route from June to 8/17 due to staffing issues. What changed that they will now operate the route?

I have to think it has to do with fleet, language services and probably a wait and see on bookings so as to allow the JFK route to launch. They probably shuffled things around to make it work. August 17th is 2 months away. Should give them the time to sort out the operational needs to make the flight work.

asuflyer wrote:

AA has finally launched JFK-CLO yesterday after postponing the launch date from May 6th due to security concerns.

Any idea why the operation of AA in JFK to Colombia (BOG, MDE, CLO) is suffering of frequent delays and/or cancelations ? i.e. yesterday, BOG
flight left almost 2 hours late, MDE and CLO flights canceled.

AA JFK-LAS showing a start date of October 7th.

Are they finally bringing it back or is it placeholder?

AmericanAir88 wrote:

AA JFK-LAS showing a start date of October 7th.

Are they finally bringing it back or is it placeholder?

Most likely a placeholder.

rjbesikof wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

rjbesikof wrote:

Did they internally announce that PHL-ATH was not coming back this year? It is tentatively scheduled to resume in Mid August.

It's not clear. Supposedly, PHL-ATH per AA was not supposed to be restarted this year owing to crew scheduling issues involving this flight specifically out of ATH, as a consequence of the A330 retirement and the inability of all former A330 routes to be fully staffed, piloted, etc...or something like that, but AA has plenty of wide body capacity to spare and if the bookings on ORD-ATH and JFK-ATH are strong, they could theoretically resume PHL-ATH for a shorter season. They have 6 777s operating MIA-LAX. One of those or more could come off. I guess we will see.

With the most recent schedule run, PHL-ATH will run from 8/17. They supposedly cut the route from June to 8/17 due to staffing issues. What changed that they will now operate the route?

Hmm interesting. Funny that a B787 is scheduled from 7/1 to 8/16 for PHL-MCO.

Though I believe all the 787 are flown in from ORD and DFW.

AmericanAir88 wrote:

AA JFK-LAS showing a start date of October 7th.

Are they finally bringing it back or is it placeholder?

The interim schedule has been updated up to 10/6. Any part of AA's schedule beyond that is just a placeholder schedule.

After a 15 month long hiatus, AA reinstated flights from JFK to EZE. A cold Buenos Aires winter day (30F) welcomed the flight.

https://twitter.com/GDS_AA/status/1405257968648605696

clo1973 wrote:

asuflyer wrote:

AA has finally launched JFK-CLO yesterday after postponing the launch date from May 6th due to security concerns.

Any idea why the operation of AA in JFK to Colombia (BOG, MDE, CLO) is suffering of frequent delays and/or cancelations ? i.e. yesterday, BOG
flight left almost 2 hours late, MDE and CLO flights canceled.

A big problem here is aircraft availability. BOG and MDE (but not CLO) require the "enhanced" A319's with the sharklets and higher-rated engines and there's little to no slack in that subfleet into/out of JFK if these airplanes end up running behind schedule. Those Colombia flights are redeyes and then those airplanes are needed to cover morning flights out of JFK to places like STT, which have been sometimes been suffering as well due to simply not having equipment to cover if the inbounds are running late out of MDE or BOG. I know storms in NYC caused problems on those Colombia flights recently, which leads to a ripple effect into the next day due to the tight scheduling.
These "enhanced" 319's are mostly based out of MIA, although the summer schedule has them operating into places like JAC and EYW from all over the system due to their additional performance.

747fan wrote:

clo1973 wrote:

asuflyer wrote:

AA has finally launched JFK-CLO yesterday after postponing the launch date from May 6th due to security concerns.

Any idea why the operation of AA in JFK to Colombia (BOG, MDE, CLO) is suffering of frequent delays and/or cancelations ? i.e. yesterday, BOG
flight left almost 2 hours late, MDE and CLO flights canceled.

A big problem here is aircraft availability. BOG and MDE (but not CLO) require the "enhanced" A319's with the sharklets and higher-rated engines and there's little to no slack in that subfleet into/out of JFK if these airplanes end up running behind schedule. Those Colombia flights are redeyes and then those airplanes are needed to cover morning flights out of JFK to places like STT, which have been sometimes been suffering as well due to simply not having equipment to cover if the inbounds are running late out of MDE or BOG. I know storms in NYC caused problems on those Colombia flights recently, which leads to a ripple effect into the next day due to the tight scheduling.
These "enhanced" 319's are mostly based out of MIA, although the summer schedule has them operating into places like JAC and EYW from all over the system due to their additional performance.

Why does CLO not require the LAA A319? It is farther than both BOG and MDE and higher altitude than BOG.

How are JFK to Medellin and Cali doing ? These seem odd routes for AA to fly, if they are so good why not fly them before ? Five and a half hours are a long way to fly an A319.

AA posted its flight attendant speaker vacancies for August and they are asking for Greek speakers in ORD, JFK and PHL. This is the first time this season that they have opened Greek vacancy spots for PHL.

Another sign that PHL - ATH is operating in August.

usflyer msp wrote:

747fan wrote:

clo1973 wrote:

Any idea why the operation of AA in JFK to Colombia (BOG, MDE, CLO) is suffering of frequent delays and/or cancelations ? i.e. yesterday, BOG
flight left almost 2 hours late, MDE and CLO flights canceled.

A big problem here is aircraft availability. BOG and MDE (but not CLO) require the "enhanced" A319's with the sharklets and higher-rated engines and there's little to no slack in that subfleet into/out of JFK if these airplanes end up running behind schedule. Those Colombia flights are redeyes and then those airplanes are needed to cover morning flights out of JFK to places like STT, which have been sometimes been suffering as well due to simply not having equipment to cover if the inbounds are running late out of MDE or BOG. I know storms in NYC caused problems on those Colombia flights recently, which leads to a ripple effect into the next day due to the tight scheduling.
These "enhanced" 319's are mostly based out of MIA, although the summer schedule has them operating into places like JAC and EYW from all over the system due to their additional performance.

Why does CLO not require the LAA A319? It is farther than both BOG and MDE and higher altitude than BOG.

CLO is definitely not higher than BOG. BOG is 8700 feet, CLO is 3100.

jfk777 wrote:

How are JFK to Medellin and Cali doing ? These seem odd routes for AA to fly, if they are so good why not fly them before ? Five and a half hours are a long way to fly an A319.

AA flew JFK-BOG in the 1990s for a time, and it didn't work out. CLO, MDE, and BOG were added as part of the B6/AA NE Partnership. B6 flies to Cartagena so these are complimentary routes. Not sure what the A319 issue is, when B6 flies A320/21 on the CTG route. AA has a number of A319's that are newer and used for longer routes into Latin America. They're not really odd routes for AA, given their footprint in Latin America and the renewed focus on JFK. All 3 routes are heavy on the VFR and leisure so the A319 is actually the perfect plane for this type of route, vs. the 757/767 they flew into BOG in the 1990s, which was too much plane but all that was available then.

747fan wrote:

clo1973 wrote:

asuflyer wrote:

AA has finally launched JFK-CLO yesterday after postponing the launch date from May 6th due to security concerns.

Any idea why the operation of AA in JFK to Colombia (BOG, MDE, CLO) is suffering of frequent delays and/or cancelations ? i.e. yesterday, BOG
flight left almost 2 hours late, MDE and CLO flights canceled.

A big problem here is aircraft availability. BOG and MDE (but not CLO) require the "enhanced" A319's with the sharklets and higher-rated engines and there's little to no slack in that subfleet into/out of JFK if these airplanes end up running behind schedule. Those Colombia flights are redeyes and then those airplanes are needed to cover morning flights out of JFK to places like STT, which have been sometimes been suffering as well due to simply not having equipment to cover if the inbounds are running late out of MDE or BOG. I know storms in NYC caused problems on those Colombia flights recently, which leads to a ripple effect into the next day due to the tight scheduling.
These "enhanced" 319's are mostly based out of MIA, although the summer schedule has them operating into places like JAC and EYW from all over the system due to their additional performance.

Bingo.

dcajet wrote:

After a 15 month long hiatus, AA reinstated flights from JFK to EZE. A cold Buenos Aires winter day (30F) welcomed the flight.

https://twitter.com/GDS_AA/status/1405257968648605696

The schedule on JFK-EZE has changed. AA 955 used to depart at 9:50-10:15pm, and now departs just before 1am.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

dcajet wrote:

After a 15 month long hiatus, AA reinstated flights from JFK to EZE. A cold Buenos Aires winter day (30F) welcomed the flight.

https://twitter.com/GDS_AA/status/1405257968648605696

The schedule on JFK-EZE has changed. AA 955 used to depart at 9:50-10:15pm, and now departs just before 1am.

That is the work of the braintrust at Argentina's ANAC... they space arrivals @EZE so as to avoid too many people at customs and during the COVID on arrival testing. All airlines/all schedules have been upended. EZE can get very busy in the morning with the US and Europe arrivals.

We talk about Europe and Latin America but what about AA's Asia flights? I think the only places active are HND/NRT and ICN. China (PEK PVG HKG) has quarantine rules right now. Is AA losing money to Asia as it is rumored?

x1234 wrote:

We talk about Europe and Latin America but what about AA's Asia flights? I think the only places active are HND/NRT and ICN. China (PEK PVG HKG) has quarantine rules right now. Is AA losing money to Asia as it is rumored?

It is rumored? Lol. All airlines are losing tons money on all international pretty much. There are very very few exceptions and even those barely make any profit.

x1234 wrote:

We talk about Europe and Latin America but what about AA's Asia flights? I think the only places active are HND/NRT and ICN. China (PEK PVG HKG) has quarantine rules right now. Is AA losing money to Asia as it is rumored?

Happy to stand corrected, but IIRC AA was hardly making any money at all on their Asian routes even before the pandemic.

dcajet wrote:

x1234 wrote:

We talk about Europe and Latin America but what about AA's Asia flights? I think the only places active are HND/NRT and ICN. China (PEK PVG HKG) has quarantine rules right now. Is AA losing money to Asia as it is rumored?

Happy to stand corrected, but IIRC AA was hardly making any money at all on their Asian routes even before the pandemic.

The DFW-Asia routes were for the most part, performing. The LAX-Asia stuff was not. ORD-NRT/PEK/PVG were cut long before the pandemic. Yes, AA has struggled in Asia.

Two AA changes at EZE:

* DFW-EZE, currently oparated 4x w with 77E goes daily on Aug.18, with a change of equipment to the 787-9
* MIA-EZE, currently operated daily with the 77W, gets a second daily frequency on Oct. 7, operated with the 787-8

AA should then be back to the usual 4 evening departures ex-EZE, a slight decrease from the southern 2020 summer, which also saw a 3rd daily MIA and a 3x w LAX nonstop.

Source: AA res system

dcajet wrote:

Two AA changes at EZE:

* DFW-EZE, currently oparated 4x w with 77E goes daily on Aug.18, with a change of equipment to the 787-9
* MIA-EZE, currently operated daily with the 77W, gets a second daily frequency on Oct. 7, operated with the 787-8

AA should then be back to the usual 4 evening departures ex-EZE, a slight decrease from the southern 2020 summer, which also saw a 3rd daily MIA and a 3x w LAX nonstop.

Source: AA res system

Right now anything Oct 7 and beyond is more or less a placeholder but things appear to be normalizing but business travellers have to return to justify INTL expansion.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

The DFW-Asia routes were for the most part, performing. The LAX-Asia stuff was not. ORD-NRT/PEK/PVG were cut long before the pandemic. Yes, AA has struggled in Asia.

AA does not need to operate ORD-TYO nonstop service on its own metal with AA's partner JL already serving TYO nonstop from ORD along with AA being able to connect passengers onto JL's ORD-TYO nonstop flights from other Eastern U.S. destinations.

While AA hasn't yet started SEA-PVG nonstop service due to the COVID-19 pandemic, AA has plans to serve PVG nonstop from SEA due to the AA-AS partnership along with the connecting feed that AA would be getting onto SEA-PVG from AS flights to SEA and AA CLT/ORD/LAX/MIA/PHL/PHX-SEA flights.

AA's partner JL also offers connections to PEK, SHA, and PVG from ORD and LAX through TYO.

JohanTally wrote:

dcajet wrote:

Two AA changes at EZE:

* DFW-EZE, currently oparated 4x w with 77E goes daily on Aug.18, with a change of equipment to the 787-9
* MIA-EZE, currently operated daily with the 77W, gets a second daily frequency on Oct. 7, operated with the 787-8

AA should then be back to the usual 4 evening departures ex-EZE, a slight decrease from the southern 2020 summer, which also saw a 3rd daily MIA and a 3x w LAX nonstop.

Source: AA res system

Right now anything Oct 7 and beyond is more or less a placeholder but things appear to be normalizing but business travellers have to return to justify INTL expansion.

While I agree wholeheartedly with your comment, EZE-MIA is currently running at 95-100% occupancy. There is more demand than supply, even with travel restrictions in place. EZE was just upgauged to the 77W in detriment of GRU, downgauged to the 77E. At this point, demand to/from MIA is mostly driven by the Argentina POS.

jplatts wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

The DFW-Asia routes were for the most part, performing. The LAX-Asia stuff was not. ORD-NRT/PEK/PVG were cut long before the pandemic. Yes, AA has struggled in Asia.

AA does not need to operate ORD-TYO nonstop service on its own metal with AA's partner JL already serving TYO nonstop from ORD along with AA being able to connect passengers onto JL's ORD-TYO nonstop flights from other Eastern U.S. destinations.

While AA hasn't yet started SEA-PVG nonstop service due to the COVID-19 pandemic, AA has plans to serve PVG nonstop from SEA due to the AA-AS partnership along with the connecting feed that AA would be getting onto SEA-PVG from AS flights to SEA and AA CLT/ORD/LAX/MIA/PHL/PHX-SEA flights.

AA's partner JL also offers connections to PEK, SHA, and PVG from ORD and LAX through TYO.

No one was arguing that AA needed to operate ORD-TYO butt he fact that that AA could not make the route work, even with a 787-8 illustrates the challenges AA has had with TPAC. The role of ORD in the AA network is very different now than it was pre-merger, but it remains a large one and yes, obviously, JL serves the market but still...

AA successfully moved LAX-PVG to SEA, but hasn't started the route yet, because of the pandemic, of course. Obviously, AA will benefit from AS feed at SEA for this route, but it remains to be seen just how successful it will be regardless. Absent AS, AA wouldn't have a shot and I am not sure it will pull as much traffic from its US hubs through SEA to PVG when the route does get up an running as much as it will pull from AS's SEA hub.

JohanTally wrote:

dcajet wrote:

Two AA changes at EZE:

* DFW-EZE, currently oparated 4x w with 77E goes daily on Aug.18, with a change of equipment to the 787-9
* MIA-EZE, currently operated daily with the 77W, gets a second daily frequency on Oct. 7, operated with the 787-8

AA should then be back to the usual 4 evening departures ex-EZE, a slight decrease from the southern 2020 summer, which also saw a 3rd daily MIA and a 3x w LAX nonstop.

Source: AA res system

Right now anything Oct 7 and beyond is more or less a placeholder but things appear to be normalizing but business travellers have to return to justify INTL expansion.

Not entirely. EZE is unique in that it depends a lot less on business travel to work than you think. At the height of the pandemic once the MIA-EZE route resumed, on a 77W no less, it was going out 95-100% full. Part of that of course was the limited number of flights, but the demand is pretty strong year-round and generates equal parts demand and POS from the EZE and US origin. AA also has some structural advantages in EZE in that it has a crew base and other operations there that allow it to capture some lower costs. While Argentina's boom and bust cycles impact demand, for AA it is pretty much a constant with DFW-MIA, 2 and up to 3 x daily MIA-EZE in peak season, plus JFK in a normalized, non pandemic environment. UA and DL are far smaller players in this market.

Despite the two successful Asian partners CX and JL, AA never understood the US-Asian market. AA's B788 with 19J (saleable) configuration is absolute wrong aircrafts for premium heavy Asian market. The original configuration of 28J B788 (with 27 saleable seats) would have done marginally better. Especially on US-China market, there are two extreme groups of travellers: premium corporate+HNWI and cheapo group tours. AA's B788s are not designed to meet the different needs of the two groups.

AA's reputation in Asia is bad, its point of sale in Asia is lacking, and its aircrafts did not get the premium mix right, it is doomed however AA tries.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

jplatts wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

The DFW-Asia routes were for the most part, performing. The LAX-Asia stuff was not. ORD-NRT/PEK/PVG were cut long before the pandemic. Yes, AA has struggled in Asia.

AA does not need to operate ORD-TYO nonstop service on its own metal with AA's partner JL already serving TYO nonstop from ORD along with AA being able to connect passengers onto JL's ORD-TYO nonstop flights from other Eastern U.S. destinations.

While AA hasn't yet started SEA-PVG nonstop service due to the COVID-19 pandemic, AA has plans to serve PVG nonstop from SEA due to the AA-AS partnership along with the connecting feed that AA would be getting onto SEA-PVG from AS flights to SEA and AA CLT/ORD/LAX/MIA/PHL/PHX-SEA flights.

AA's partner JL also offers connections to PEK, SHA, and PVG from ORD and LAX through TYO.

No one was arguing that AA needed to operate ORD-TYO butt he fact that that AA could not make the route work, even with a 787-8 illustrates the challenges AA has had with TPAC. The role of ORD in the AA network is very different now than it was pre-merger, but it remains a large one and yes, obviously, JL serves the market but still...

AA successfully moved LAX-PVG to SEA, but hasn't started the route yet, because of the pandemic, of course. Obviously, AA will benefit from AS feed at SEA for this route, but it remains to be seen just how successful it will be regardless. Absent AS, AA wouldn't have a shot and I am not sure it will pull as much traffic from its US hubs through SEA to PVG when the route does get up an running as much as it will pull from AS's SEA hub.

I’d argue that intense competition is the primary reason for AA’s struggles in Asia. In ORD they competed with Asia-powerhouse United and its partners plus Hainan and China Eastern, and LAX was even more of a bloodbath.

SEA is probably their best option, yes the AA connecting traffic will be limited BUT AA will route anything east of the Rockies through DFW, where it has been successful. West of the Rockies AS has a pretty good network and can feed that traffic in SEA. There will still be competition from DL but Delta is not exactly an Asia powerhouse either.

AA still flies LAX to Tokyo Haneda and Narita plus Sydney. To the PRC is always a challenge with the huge frequencies Air China and China Eastern have to LAX. Los Angeles is the biggest destination for many Asian airlines especially those from Korea & Taiwan.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

JohanTally wrote:

dcajet wrote:

Two AA changes at EZE:

* DFW-EZE, currently oparated 4x w with 77E goes daily on Aug.18, with a change of equipment to the 787-9
* MIA-EZE, currently operated daily with the 77W, gets a second daily frequency on Oct. 7, operated with the 787-8

AA should then be back to the usual 4 evening departures ex-EZE, a slight decrease from the southern 2020 summer, which also saw a 3rd daily MIA and a 3x w LAX nonstop.

Source: AA res system

Right now anything Oct 7 and beyond is more or less a placeholder but things appear to be normalizing but business travellers have to return to justify INTL expansion.

Not entirely. EZE is unique in that it depends a lot less on business travel to work than you think. At the height of the pandemic once the MIA-EZE route resumed, on a 77W no less, it was going out 95-100% full. Part of that of course was the limited number of flights, but the demand is pretty strong year-round and generates equal parts demand and POS from the EZE and US origin. AA also has some structural advantages in EZE in that it has a crew base and other operations there that allow it to capture some lower costs. While Argentina's boom and bust cycles impact demand, for AA it is pretty much a constant with DFW-MIA, 2 and up to 3 x daily MIA-EZE in peak season, plus JFK in a normalized, non pandemic environment. UA and DL are far smaller players in this market.

I looked at the bookings you are right the MIA-EZE flights are almost all 90% full some even oversold. Also I noticed some days currently have two 77Ws scheduled and they are both full. So barring some substantial lockdown it looks like more capacity will be needed to EZE. However the DFW-EZE bookings were closer 60-75% for June and July