Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 16
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3891
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:09 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
AA does not do a beverage service in Coach unless it's greater than 2.2K miles. If it's 900-2.2K miles it's the little baggie. Under 900 miles nothing. You can ask and you may or may not receive a beverage. For the most part you get a beverage service in F unless it's a very short flight (less than 300 miles). Then it's hit or miss. There are sandwiches or fruit plate on flights from 900 to 2.2K miles in F and the relatively small number of domestic flights over 2.2k miles there's a single tray meal service. Some longer domestic flights also have a self serve snack basket in F. However, there appears to be no food in F on AE flights, even over 900 miles. Some flights seem to have the little cookies. Pre departures beverages in F are about as common now as getting a LGA/ORD Monday upgrade as a PLT pre-COVID.

On a relatively few number of flights FAs will refuse to do any kind of service. On a IAH/MIA flight last month (admittedly this was Republic and not actually AA) the F FA made a "stern" announcement that he would not be doing a beverage service in either cabin. Thus dude also had on these thick black gloves one would see someone handling nuclear waste. Too bad he wasn't laid off if he's that sacred.

COVID 19 is not transmitted by food or beverage. There was a rumor going around that AA had plan to restore a beverage service in Y but the union objected. It's a case of lazy flight attendants. Some of which would be more than happy to hand you and take back a credit card application. I guess it must be made from COVID resistant paper.


This is all a bit harsh. While many airlines have flight attendants that are hit or miss when it comes to service standards and levels, you really do have to factor in the higher rate of exposure cabin crew face in interacting with passengers, notably over the recent holiday period, where volumes picked up to a pandemic high. Flight attendants are some of the worst paid employees an airline has and the benefits they do get don't outweigh the unpleasant side of the job. I personally don't care if they wear latex gloves or not. That's their choice. While it is generally accepted that COVID is transmitted via droplets in the air over surface contact, no one really knows for sure. There are plenty of entitled, obnoxious, and inconsiderate passengers who aren't content enough with a bare bones fare and have to take out operational issues on the cabin crew. The industry is a dirty one for sure, but don't blame the flight attendant because they're in your line of vision. If the flight attendant, like the one you described on the IAH-MIA flight is forcibly rude, I think it's sufficient to engage minimally and respond with equal coldness, but not much else is needed.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2451
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:24 pm

AA767400 wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
AA does not do a beverage service in Coach unless it's greater than 2.2K miles. If it's 900-2.2K miles it's the little baggie. Under 900 miles nothing. You can ask and you may or may not receive a beverage. For the most part you get a beverage service in F unless it's a very short flight (less than 300 miles). Then it's hit or miss. There are sandwiches or fruit plate on flights from 900 to 2.2K miles in F and the relatively small number of domestic flights over 2.2k miles there's a single tray meal service. Some longer domestic flights also have a self serve snack basket in F. However, there appears to be no food in F on AE flights, even over 900 miles. Some flights seem to have the little cookies. Pre departures beverages in F are about as common now as getting a LGA/ORD Monday upgrade as a PLT pre-COVID.

On a relatively few number of flights FAs will refuse to do any kind of service. On a IAH/MIA flight last month (admittedly this was Republic and not actually AA) the F FA made a "stern" announcement that he would not be doing a beverage service in either cabin. Thus dude also had on these thick black gloves one would see someone handling nuclear waste. Too bad he wasn't laid off if he's that sacred.

COVID 19 is not transmitted by food or beverage. There was a rumor going around that AA had plan to restore a beverage service in Y but the union objected. It's a case of lazy flight attendants. Some of which would be more than happy to hand you and take back a credit card application. I guess it must be made from COVID resistant paper.


Has nothing to do with their union. AA in their "Cost cutting" does not cater Y with stocked carts. There's only a limited amount of cans available upon request. Passengers receive a bag with water, cookies, and wipes. Longer flights receive a normal beverage service. But of course people will see FAs doing nothing, and quickly claim laziness. How can they do a beverage service when there's no supplies, and your employer discontinued the service, and its no longer procedure? Guess it pains people to not receive more than their $39.99 bought them. :sarcastic:

The bag with biscoff/pretzels and water is only handed out on flights longer than 900 miles. Is it laziness when you see the FAs playing candy crush on their phone or gossiping in the galley, while pouring themselves a soda from the cart, all while refusing to provide sealed drinks/water on request, which is the official AA policy?
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 763ER, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
jayunited
Posts: 3208
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:30 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
To add fuel to the JFK fire, AA hired UA's route planner, who has a ton of NYC market knowledge from UA's EWR operations.



Patrick Quayle and his management team are still here at United Airlines. UA did layoff route planners but the employees laid off were just regular route planners not senior management, and any knowledge a former UA route planner has would not benefit American at all at JFK or perhaps even PHL. The operation UA ran out of EWR pre-COVID and even now during COVID AA can not match it at least not from JFK.

I find it difficult to believe during this time of uncertainty American with all the hiring freezes AA would hire anyone especially a former UA route planner when American probably laid off many of their own route planners.
 
kickazzz2000
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:46 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:08 pm

Miamiairport wrote:

On a relatively few number of flights FAs will refuse to do any kind of service. On a IAH/MIA flight last month (admittedly this was Republic and not actually AA) the F FA made a "stern" announcement that he would not be doing a beverage service in either cabin. Thus dude also had on these thick black gloves one would see someone handling nuclear waste. Too bad he wasn't laid off if he's that sacred.

COVID 19 is not transmitted by food or beverage. There was a rumor going around that AA had plan to restore a beverage service in Y but the union objected. It's a case of lazy flight attendants. Some of which would be more than happy to hand you and take back a credit card application. I guess it must be made from COVID resistant paper.



Indeed. I flew CLT-FLL on sunday. There was no beverage service in F, but they hawked the credit card twice.
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 828
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:21 pm

AA767400 wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
AA does not do a beverage service in Coach unless it's greater than 2.2K miles. If it's 900-2.2K miles it's the little baggie. Under 900 miles nothing. You can ask and you may or may not receive a beverage. For the most part you get a beverage service in F unless it's a very short flight (less than 300 miles). Then it's hit or miss. There are sandwiches or fruit plate on flights from 900 to 2.2K miles in F and the relatively small number of domestic flights over 2.2k miles there's a single tray meal service. Some longer domestic flights also have a self serve snack basket in F. However, there appears to be no food in F on AE flights, even over 900 miles. Some flights seem to have the little cookies. Pre departures beverages in F are about as common now as getting a LGA/ORD Monday upgrade as a PLT pre-COVID.

On a relatively few number of flights FAs will refuse to do any kind of service. On a IAH/MIA flight last month (admittedly this was Republic and not actually AA) the F FA made a "stern" announcement that he would not be doing a beverage service in either cabin. Thus dude also had on these thick black gloves one would see someone handling nuclear waste. Too bad he wasn't laid off if he's that sacred.

COVID 19 is not transmitted by food or beverage. There was a rumor going around that AA had plan to restore a beverage service in Y but the union objected. It's a case of lazy flight attendants. Some of which would be more than happy to hand you and take back a credit card application. I guess it must be made from COVID resistant paper.


Has nothing to do with their union. AA in their "Cost cutting" does not cater Y with stocked carts. There's only a limited amount of cans available upon request. Passengers receive a bag with water, cookies, and wipes. Longer flights receive a normal beverage service. But of course people will see FAs doing nothing, and quickly claim laziness. How can they do a beverage service when there's no supplies, and your employer discontinued the service, and its no longer procedure? Guess it pains people to not receive more than their $39.99 bought them. :sarcastic:


I've got news for you dude not only am I EXP half of my flights now I upfaring to F so it's hardly like I paid $39.99 for a flight. And I'm not the only one in the F cabin to do so. So if sitting on an airplane getting served a drink scares you so much stay home. And yes it is lazy FAs because as I said most FAs are not only doing the F service (beverages and food on flights of over 900 miles) but fulfilling requests for beverages in coach.
 
AmericanAir88
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:37 pm

AA needs JFK. They are investing a ton of money into T-8 and are planning to make it a oneworld powerhouse with Alaska/BA.

Is there anyway to check specific routes on airlines for load factors? Ive seen people do it.

Bring back AA JFK-LAS. I have personally never flown that route with less than 95% full.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3979
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:11 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
Is there anyway to check specific routes on airlines for load factors? Ive seen people do it.


The load factors for domestic routes can be determined by
(a) downloading the T-100 Domestic Segment data from https://www.transtats.bts.gov/Tables.asp?DB_ID=110&DB_Name=Air%20Carrier%20Statistics%20%28Form%2041%20Traffic%29-%20%20U.S.%20Carriers&DB_Short_Name=Air%20Carriers,
(b) filtering out the T-100 data downloaded in the previous step by airline and route,
(c) summing up the number of passengers and number of seats on a particular route by a particular airline, and
(d) dividing the number of passengers by the number of seats and then multiplying by 100 to get the load factor percentage.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3891
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:16 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
AA needs JFK. They are investing a ton of money into T-8 and are planning to make it a oneworld powerhouse with Alaska/BA.

Is there anyway to check specific routes on airlines for load factors? Ive seen people do it.

Bring back AA JFK-LAS. I have personally never flown that route with less than 95% full.


The notion of the demise of NYC as a top business market is silly. Same goes for LA and SF. AA does need to have a presence in NYC and it can, even without the scale of DL or UA. The T8 upgrades are essentially designed for BA to co-locate (which presumably will also include IB). I also suspect that AS will end up at T8 as well, and perhaps even end up flying SEA and adding PDX/SAN and operating them as code-shares with AA, while exiting LAX/SFO, which will only get more competitive as UA re-enters JFK (AS's product can't compete) for a diminished (temporarily) but not gone business demand that will eventually rebound. Terminal 8 will eventually look like what T2 at LHR is to Star Alliance when LHR is at full capacity. I see AA adding a small number of additional long haul markets, and potentially some secondary TATL later when the 321XLR's are on property. I don't see an AA/B6 partnership really taking off. It didn't work before and seems to be slow on the uptake, whereas the AS entry into OW and all the alignments that come with it appear to be moving at a faster pace. That said, I think a B6/AA partnership focused in some markets, like JFK/LGA, BOS can work where there is route and frequency rationalization and not adding flights to just compete with one another and dump capacity, which will make the entire effort unprofitable and not worth it.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5852
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:52 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
AA needs JFK. They are investing a ton of money into T-8 and are planning to make it a oneworld powerhouse with Alaska/BA.

Is there anyway to check specific routes on airlines for load factors? Ive seen people do it.

Bring back AA JFK-LAS. I have personally never flown that route with less than 95% full.


The notion of the demise of NYC as a top business market is silly. Same goes for LA and SF. AA does need to have a presence in NYC and it can, even without the scale of DL or UA. The T8 upgrades are essentially designed for BA to co-locate (which presumably will also include IB). I also suspect that AS will end up at T8 as well, and perhaps even end up flying SEA and adding PDX/SAN and operating them as code-shares with AA, while exiting LAX/SFO, which will only get more competitive as UA re-enters JFK (AS's product can't compete) for a diminished (temporarily) but not gone business demand that will eventually rebound. Terminal 8 will eventually look like what T2 at LHR is to Star Alliance when LHR is at full capacity. I see AA adding a small number of additional long haul markets, and potentially some secondary TATL later when the 321XLR's are on property. I don't see an AA/B6 partnership really taking off. It didn't work before and seems to be slow on the uptake, whereas the AS entry into OW and all the alignments that come with it appear to be moving at a faster pace. That said, I think a B6/AA partnership focused in some markets, like JFK/LGA, BOS can work where there is route and frequency rationalization and not adding flights to just compete with one another and dump capacity, which will make the entire effort unprofitable and not worth it.


Keep in mind that AS and AA already had a relationship before AS entry into OW that went back many years. JetBlue and AA just had their partnership "approved" 6 weeks ago. It would make sense for things to not be implemented yet.

Having said that, B6 is actually a lot more useful for AA for the heartland and SE markets that AA is fighting with DL over. Just think about markets like BNA, RDU, RIC, IND, CMH and CLE. Does it help AA's ff more if they got B6 codeshare to JFK/EWR/BOS or AS codeshare to SEA and maybe PDX? I think the answer is pretty clear.
 
asuflyer
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:27 am

AA loaded some more seasonal Mexico routes in the GDS some beginning in Jan others in March and June. Some of these I believe have been already announced.
PHX-CUC with a CR9
PHL-CZM with an E75
DFW-HMO with a CR7 (last flown in 2014)
CLT-GDL with a 319 (service resumption)
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3988
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:32 am

asuflyer wrote:
AA loaded some more seasonal Mexico routes in the GDS some beginning in Jan others in March and June. Some of these I believe have been already announced.
PHX-CUC with a CR9
PHL-CZM with an E75
DFW-HMO with a CR7 (last flown in 2014)
CLT-GDL with a 319 (service resumption)


Culiacan is a VFR route, probably shouldn't be seasonal.
Hermosillo and Guadalajara are mixed business/VFR routes, doesn't make sense to be seasonal.
 
User avatar
BA744PHX
Posts: 437
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:42 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:01 pm

asuflyer wrote:
AA loaded some more seasonal Mexico routes in the GDS some beginning in Jan others in March and June. Some of these I believe have been already announced.
PHX-CUC with a CR9
PHL-CZM with an E75
DFW-HMO with a CR7 (last flown in 2014)
CLT-GDL with a 319 (service resumption)


I assume you mean PHX-CUL? This was loaded a few weeks ago as Saturday only, year around service as CR7.
CUC is Cucuta, Colombia
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 3353
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:58 pm

Yesterday, AA resumed service to the 11 cities it suspended after the CARES Act Expired:

- DFW to Del Rio (DRT), Lake Charles (LCH), Springfield (SPI)
- CLT to Florence (FLO), Greenville (PGV), Huntington (HTS)
- ORD to Dubuque (DBQ), Kalamazoo (AZO)
- PHL to New Haven (HVN), New Windsor (SWF), Williamsport (IPT)

AA also relaunched more 737 MAX routes:

- MIA-DCA/JFK/MCO yesterday
- MIA-SJU/BOS tomorrow

AA resumed more LHR service:

- ORD/JFK-LHR yesterday
- CLT-LHR today
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 630
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:32 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Yesterday, AA resumed service to the 11 cities it suspended after the CARES Act Expired:

- DFW to Del Rio (DRT), Lake Charles (LCH), Springfield (SPI)
- CLT to Florence (FLO), Greenville (PGV), Huntington (HTS)
- ORD to Dubuque (DBQ), Kalamazoo (AZO)
- PHL to New Haven (HVN), New Windsor (SWF), Williamsport (IPT)

AA also relaunched more 737 MAX routes:

- MIA-DCA/JFK/MCO yesterday
- MIA-SJU/BOS tomorrow

AA resumed more LHR service:

- ORD/JFK-LHR yesterday
- CLT-LHR today


That's great news and yet interesting for the HVN, SWF and IPT why they are bringing service back to PHL instead of going back to CTL since that was their main focus recently.
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3515
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:59 pm

jayunited wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
To add fuel to the JFK fire, AA hired UA's route planner, who has a ton of NYC market knowledge from UA's EWR operations.



Patrick Quayle and his management team are still here at United Airlines. UA did layoff route planners but the employees laid off were just regular route planners not senior management, and any knowledge a former UA route planner has would not benefit American at all at JFK or perhaps even PHL. The operation UA ran out of EWR pre-COVID and even now during COVID AA can not match it at least not from JFK.

I find it difficult to believe during this time of uncertainty American with all the hiring freezes AA would hire anyone especially a former UA route planner when American probably laid off many of their own route planners.



AA brought in the former CO/UA Executive Brian Znotins, who had left UA a 3 years ago and went to West Jet. At CO/UA he had oversight on the international network.
 
sagechan
Posts: 364
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:09 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Yesterday, AA resumed service to the 11 cities it suspended after the CARES Act Expired:

- DFW to Del Rio (DRT), Lake Charles (LCH), Springfield (SPI)
- CLT to Florence (FLO), Greenville (PGV), Huntington (HTS)
- ORD to Dubuque (DBQ), Kalamazoo (AZO)
- PHL to New Haven (HVN), New Windsor (SWF), Williamsport (IPT)

AA also relaunched more 737 MAX routes:

- MIA-DCA/JFK/MCO yesterday
- MIA-SJU/BOS tomorrow

AA resumed more LHR service:

- ORD/JFK-LHR yesterday
- CLT-LHR today


That's great news and yet interesting for the HVN, SWF and IPT why they are bringing service back to PHL instead of going back to CTL since that was their main focus recently.


Shorter stage length for empty flights.
717, 733, 734, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 772, 77W, 789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A359, MD88, CRJ, CR7, CR9, DH1, DH2, DH3, S340, ER4, E170, E175, E190/CO, NW, US, AC, NH, AA, UA, DL, WN, WS, SK, VY, LA, QF, AR, AV, MH, KA, AS
 
airlineworker
Posts: 242
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:20 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:48 am

sagechan wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Yesterday, AA resumed service to the 11 cities it suspended after the CARES Act Expired:

- DFW to Del Rio (DRT), Lake Charles (LCH), Springfield (SPI)
- CLT to Florence (FLO), Greenville (PGV), Huntington (HTS)
- ORD to Dubuque (DBQ), Kalamazoo (AZO)
- PHL to New Haven (HVN), New Windsor (SWF), Williamsport (IPT)

AA also relaunched more 737 MAX routes:

- MIA-DCA/JFK/MCO yesterday
- MIA-SJU/BOS tomorrow

AA resumed more LHR service:

- ORD/JFK-LHR yesterday
- CLT-LHR today


That's great news and yet interesting for the HVN, SWF and IPT why they are bringing service back to PHL instead of going back to CTL since that was their main focus recently.


Shorter stage length for empty flights.


HVN-PHL flight arrives after 7pm and on Tuesday and Wednesday, all connecting flights require an overnight stay. This flight was planned to fail. Practically a ferry flight to PHL. AA just wants the money, so the PHL hub and the terrible flight times are what AA is offering.
 
kavok
Posts: 881
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:10 am

Ishrion wrote:
Yesterday, AA resumed service to the 11 cities it suspended after the CARES Act Expired:

- DFW to Del Rio (DRT), Lake Charles (LCH), Springfield (SPI)
- CLT to Florence (FLO), Greenville (PGV), Huntington (HTS)
- ORD to Dubuque (DBQ), Kalamazoo (AZO)
- PHL to New Haven (HVN), New Windsor (SWF), Williamsport (IPT)

AA also relaunched more 737 MAX routes:

- MIA-DCA/JFK/MCO yesterday
- MIA-SJU/BOS tomorrow

AA resumed more LHR service:

- ORD/JFK-LHR yesterday
- CLT-LHR today


Were these resumptions required as part of the new stimulus? Or was it more of a situation where the added cash from the new stimulus made these resumptions possible (financially or politically)?
 
JohanTally
Posts: 243
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:32 am

kavok wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Yesterday, AA resumed service to the 11 cities it suspended after the CARES Act Expired:

- DFW to Del Rio (DRT), Lake Charles (LCH), Springfield (SPI)
- CLT to Florence (FLO), Greenville (PGV), Huntington (HTS)
- ORD to Dubuque (DBQ), Kalamazoo (AZO)
- PHL to New Haven (HVN), New Windsor (SWF), Williamsport (IPT)

AA also relaunched more 737 MAX routes:

- MIA-DCA/JFK/MCO yesterday
- MIA-SJU/BOS tomorrow

AA resumed more LHR service:

- ORD/JFK-LHR yesterday
- CLT-LHR today


Were these resumptions required as part of the new stimulus? Or was it more of a situation where the added cash from the new stimulus made these resumptions possible (financially or politically)?


Certain routes had to resume under conditions of the aid money and furloughed employees had to be paid retroactively to Dec 1
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26468
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:43 am

airlineworker wrote:
sagechan wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:

That's great news and yet interesting for the HVN, SWF and IPT why they are bringing service back to PHL instead of going back to CTL since that was their main focus recently.


Shorter stage length for empty flights.


HVN-PHL flight arrives after 7pm and on Tuesday and Wednesday, all connecting flights require an overnight stay. This flight was planned to fail. Practically a ferry flight to PHL. AA just wants the money, so the PHL hub and the terrible flight times are what AA is offering.


I believe that on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, AA does not operate a hub at PHL, so of course won't connect to anything on those days.

The main feed this needs is probably Florida and California there should be the appropriate connections in the evening to those.
a.
 
airlineworker
Posts: 242
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:20 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:19 am

MAH4546 wrote:
airlineworker wrote:
sagechan wrote:

Shorter stage length for empty flights.


HVN-PHL flight arrives after 7pm and on Tuesday and Wednesday, all connecting flights require an overnight stay. This flight was planned to fail. Practically a ferry flight to PHL. AA just wants the money, so the PHL hub and the terrible flight times are what AA is offering.


I believe that on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, AA does not operate a hub at PHL, so of course won't connect to anything on those days.

The main feed this needs is probably Florida and California there should be the appropriate connections in the evening to those.


On Tuesday and Wednesday there are a reduced number of flights, but there are more possibilities for connections if the arrival time was 3-4pm in PHL. And why PHL and not CLT which was what HVN had before. With the 7pm arrival time on other days apart from Tuesday and Wednesday, SFO, SAN, MCO, JAX, SRQ, RSW, PHX, GSO, MYR, SEA, PDX and others have to overnight. AA fixed it to fail, PHL and after 7pm arrival ensure low numbers. HVN to PHL operates 7 days a week till early February, and so the ferry flight on Tuesday and Wednesday.
Hoping for Allegiant to Florida and UA to ORD on CRJ-550's to start off with.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15521
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:48 pm

AA taking certain precautions including no alcoholic beverage service on flights to/from Washington DC airports due to harassment of politicians and fears of F/A's on flights like US Senator Mitt Romney (R-Utah) on a recent flight: https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/amer ... index.html
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 3353
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:09 pm

AA adds new routes:

- Boston to Hilton Head (HHH) - Saturday-only E-175 from April 10 to May 29

- PHL to Destin-Fort Walton (VPS) and Panama City (ECP) - Saturday-only CRJ-700 from May 8 to September 4

ORD-PNS/VPS return this year

https://crankyflier.com/2021/01/11/febr ... sun-again/
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 305
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:58 pm

According to TPG, AA is resuming DFW-SGU. Does anyone know when the flight resumes? Couldn’t find it anywhere. Thanks.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... ights/amp/
 
dfw88
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:25 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:04 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
According to TPG, AA is resuming DFW-SGU. Does anyone know when the flight resumes? Couldn’t find it anywhere. Thanks.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... ights/amp/


I see it starting 6 March, running once per week. However, the March schedule isn't totally set yet, so the resumption is certainly subject to change.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 3353
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:05 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
According to TPG, AA is resuming DFW-SGU. Does anyone know when the flight resumes? Couldn’t find it anywhere. Thanks.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... ights/amp/


It resumes on March 6 operating every Saturday through May 1.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5647
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:45 pm

I would watch out for p2p routes from AA, they have built out quite a network of p2p routes since the end of 2019.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
User avatar
ChrisNH38
Posts: 310
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:53 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:50 am

What’s the likelihood that any of the FIVE Boston-LAX flights in March actually happen? I’m booked on the 9:25am flight west on 3/17 and the 3:30pm flight east on the 22nd.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 3353
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:02 am

ChrisNH38 wrote:
What’s the likelihood that any of the FIVE Boston-LAX flights in March actually happen? I’m booked on the 9:25am flight west on 3/17 and the 3:30pm flight east on the 22nd.


Don't bet on it at all. Expect a frequency reduction at the very least.

AA has marginally touched its March schedule. The inaugural BOS-RDU still has five daily flights. JFK-LAX has 12 A321Ts on some days. LHR-JFK/DFW/ORD are still at 4 daily flights at the end of March. PHL-LHR is at 2x daily. LAX-HND/LHR are at 2x daily.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3891
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:30 pm

Ishrion wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
What’s the likelihood that any of the FIVE Boston-LAX flights in March actually happen? I’m booked on the 9:25am flight west on 3/17 and the 3:30pm flight east on the 22nd.


Don't bet on it at all. Expect a frequency reduction at the very least.

AA has marginally touched its March schedule. The inaugural BOS-RDU still has five daily flights. JFK-LAX has 12 A321Ts on some days. LHR-JFK/DFW/ORD are still at 4 daily flights at the end of March. PHL-LHR is at 2x daily. LAX-HND/LHR are at 2x daily.


I don't see 12 JFK-LAX frequencies, even on 1 day a week, or 4 x daily JFK-LHR/DFW/ORD coming back by the end of March. LA is experiencing a major and catastrophic COVID outbreak, the origins of which are said to have come from Thanksgiving, so who knows what the impact and lag time might be for the December holidays. The UK is on another very stringent lockdown. I see at most current schedules being maintained for a bit longer. The A321T is a costly plane to operate with a very small number of business travelers.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 3353
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:10 pm

Helena Airport (HLN) in Montana is eyeing AA service from Phoenix.

HLN is seeking community support to attract AA and plans to apply for a DOT Small Community Air Service Development Grant.

They aim for a PHX-HLN flight to begin in late 2021 or early 2022.

https://helenair.com/news/local/helena- ... 63202.html
 
User avatar
BA744PHX
Posts: 437
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:42 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:59 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Helena Airport (HLN) in Montana is eyeing AA service from Phoenix.

HLN is seeking community support to attract AA and plans to apply for a DOT Small Community Air Service Development Grant.

They aim for a PHX-HLN flight to begin in late 2021 or early 2022.

https://helenair.com/news/local/helena- ... 63202.html


This would be interesting if its launched, I would think BZN & MSO would be first since demand is already proven with G4 serving from IWA for well over 10+ years
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1634
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:16 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Helena Airport (HLN) in Montana is eyeing AA service from Phoenix.

HLN is seeking community support to attract AA and plans to apply for a DOT Small Community Air Service Development Grant.

They aim for a PHX-HLN flight to begin in late 2021 or early 2022.

https://helenair.com/news/local/helena- ... 63202.html


This would be interesting if its launched, I would think BZN & MSO would be first since demand is already proven with G4 serving from IWA for well over 10+ years


Any idea how the new (ok, I guess technically resumed - HP did offer these flights many, many years ago!) PHX-BIL flights are doing? I would have to think PHX-BZN/FCA/MSO are all strong contenders, as well as a resumption of PHX-SUN of course!
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
FSDan
Posts: 3352
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:50 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Helena Airport (HLN) in Montana is eyeing AA service from Phoenix.

HLN is seeking community support to attract AA and plans to apply for a DOT Small Community Air Service Development Grant.

They aim for a PHX-HLN flight to begin in late 2021 or early 2022.

https://helenair.com/news/local/helena- ... 63202.html


That's a pretty reasonable flight for HLN to pursue. Not out of line with recent AA additions from the PHX hub to smaller cold-weather towns like FSD, CID, and BIL. I think it would have a good chance of working at least as a winter-seasonal route driven by Montana point-of-sale traffic. In the summer AA might want to redeploy that frame elsewhere (e.g. flipping to an Arizona-point-of-sale-focused flight such as PHX-FCA to help Arizonans escape the oven).
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 3353
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:47 pm

AA moves forward with the JetBlue partnership: http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

- JFK-ATH/TLV confirmed to launch this summer.
- ATH & TLV are "just two of many new routes we plan to launch" - Vasu Raja
- AA to upgauge all aircraft in New York City to ones with First Class by the end of 2021
- 1H21 AA/B6 will better align NYC/BOS schedules
- Codeshare begins later this quarter with flights on sale in the coming weeks
- There will be slot divestures at JFK/DCA

Additional note:

"as well as seamless connections onto American’s long-haul network in and out of New York and Boston.”


At the moment, AA's only "real" long-haul flight out of Boston is LHR. With this partnership, could we see AA expand into other long-haul destinations from BOS?
 
usairways85
Posts: 4197
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:44 pm

Ishrion wrote:
AA moves forward with the JetBlue partnership: http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

- JFK-ATH/TLV confirmed to launch this summer.
- ATH & TLV are "just two of many new routes we plan to launch" - Vasu Raja
- AA to upgauge all aircraft in New York City to ones with First Class by the end of 2021
- 1H21 AA/B6 will better align NYC/BOS schedules
- Codeshare begins later this quarter with flights on sale in the coming weeks
- There will be slot divestures at JFK/DCA

Additional note:

"as well as seamless connections onto American’s long-haul network in and out of New York and Boston.”


At the moment, AA's only "real" long-haul flight out of Boston is LHR. With this partnership, could we see AA expand into other long-haul destinations from BOS?

Where though?
OW covers LHR, DUB, MAN, MAD. I don't think they want to fly to CDG, AMS, FRA, or MUC that are all other alliance strong holds. It may be years until other destinations are anywhere near pre-Covid traffic levels.
 
User avatar
N62NA
Posts: 4496
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:01 am

Ishrion wrote:
- AA to upgauge all aircraft in New York City to ones with First Class by the end of 2021


At first I thought this meant all 77W service on international from JFK, but I guess they are just referring to domestic flights all having an F cabin.
 
User avatar
AVLAirlineFreq
Posts: 1463
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:04 am

Any idea how many markets are served by AA out of NYC with aircraft without an F cabin?
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2451
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:28 am

I believe the following all lack a F cabin and are flown solely by ERDs based on this summer's dummy schedule:

-JFK-BWI/CVG/IND/YUL/BNA/ORF/PIT/RIC/RDU

-LGA-CHO/CVG/CAE/YUL/ROA/YYZ

Several city-pairs have already seen an up-gauge based on the pre-COVID schedule. I would assume these pairs are likely safe. Canada flights are likely safe as well.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 763ER, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1634
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:39 am

USAirALB wrote:
I believe the following all lack a F cabin and are flown solely by ERDs based on this summer's dummy schedule:

-JFK-BWI/CVG/IND/YUL/BNA/ORF/PIT/RIC/RDU

-LGA-CHO/CVG/CAE/YUL/ROA/YYZ

Several city-pairs have already seen an up-gauge based on the pre-COVID schedule. I would assume these pairs are likely safe. Canada flights are likely safe as well.


I can't help but wonder if a number of those flights could be on the chopping block. IIRC JFK-RIC appeared to be a slot squatting exercise for AA, not unlike US's LGA-PHL operation in years past. I doubt B6 has any interest in trying something like JFK-BWI (B6 just announced a further delay in returning to BWI - now in June 2021) or resuming JFK-PIT/RIC services, either.

I do wonder about the possibility of B6 service to Canada, CVG and Hampton Roads, though. Those all seem like really important markets missing from the B6 route map - could the A220 be the perfect tool for B6 to change that? Does AA really make any money on a route like JFK-ORF?
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
BarrenLucidity
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:29 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:30 am

Alaska + AA + JB... that's one hell of a total deal AA managed to get by DOT. AA really seems to be working on their international plans. I wonder if they are planning on a long term move to collapse anything below a 737/321 into these partnerships and focus on international growth opportunities? If these alliances work well we could see one hell of a merger in 3-5 years with "legacy" AA focusing on wide bodies and "legacy" Alaska/JetBlue operating the narrow body space. Maybe AA moves into 5th freedom routes.

Then again, these alliances are hot/cold... But if JB moves to join OW I think the writing is on the wall.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2769
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:56 am

Enjoyed seeing the 777 here at MCO briefly over the holidays. Anyone know how the load factors were and if there will be a brief resurrection for the future Winter or Spring holidays?
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 5784
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:59 pm

BarrenLucidity wrote:

Alaska + AA + JB... that's one hell of a total deal AA managed to get by DOT. AA really seems to be working on their international plans. I wonder if they are planning on a long term move to collapse anything below a 737/321 into these partnerships and focus on international growth opportunities? If these alliances work well we could see one hell of a merger in 3-5 years with "legacy" AA focusing on wide bodies and "legacy" Alaska/JetBlue operating the narrow body space. Maybe AA moves into 5th freedom routes.

Then again, these alliances are hot/cold... But if JB moves to join OW I think the writing is on the wall.


I think the next step we'll see, if we see one at all, is an AS/B6 partnership of some sort.
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 4549
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:38 pm

usairways85 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
OW covers LHR, DUB, MAN, MAD.


And HEL.
Ben Soriano
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 4549
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:40 pm

usairways85 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
I don't think they want to fly to CDG, AMS, FRA, or MUC that are all other alliance strong holds. It may be years until other destinations are anywhere near pre-Covid traffic levels.


People, more specifically aviation analysts, estimate that 2024/2025 is when the airline industry will recover back to 2019 level, in other words like you say pre-Covid traffic levels. Slowly but surely.
Ben Soriano
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2451
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:05 pm

One thing I have found interesting is the recent shift of several Canadian flights to all mainline. While granted it could be quite a while before we see the flights actually operate, but it looks like AA has scheduled PHL-YHZ, CLT-YUL to be entirely mainline and they added additional mainline service to CLT-YYZ.

AA's CLT-YYZ, DFW-YVR, PHX-YVR, PHX-YYC, DFW-YYC flights appear to be the only mainline flights into Canada by a US carrier currently operating with the exception of a single flight from DEN to both YYC/YVR on UA.

SurfandSnow wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I believe the following all lack a F cabin and are flown solely by ERDs based on this summer's dummy schedule:

-JFK-BWI/CVG/IND/YUL/BNA/ORF/PIT/RIC/RDU

-LGA-CHO/CVG/CAE/YUL/ROA/YYZ

Several city-pairs have already seen an up-gauge based on the pre-COVID schedule. I would assume these pairs are likely safe. Canada flights are likely safe as well.


I can't help but wonder if a number of those flights could be on the chopping block. IIRC JFK-RIC appeared to be a slot squatting exercise for AA, not unlike US's LGA-PHL operation in years past. I doubt B6 has any interest in trying something like JFK-BWI (B6 just announced a further delay in returning to BWI - now in June 2021) or resuming JFK-PIT/RIC services, either.

I do wonder about the possibility of B6 service to Canada, CVG and Hampton Roads, though. Those all seem like really important markets missing from the B6 route map - could the A220 be the perfect tool for B6 to change that? Does AA really make any money on a route like JFK-ORF?

I would assume JFK-PIT/RDU/BNA are probably safe. All are routes that could easily be flown by the E75. I do wonder if AA needs to serve YUL/YYZ from both JFK and LGA, and if it would make sense just to consolidate that flying at one airport, probably LGA. I really don't see a future for JFK-CVG/IND/ORF/RIC.

Looking at the LGA network, the smaller Southern stations, are a toss-up. AVL/CHS/GSO/ILM/MYR are probably all safe, and I think all are already E75 routes. I could see CAE/CHO/CVG getting dropped, with ROA kept and up-gauged to an E75. Canadian routes will be up-gauged, and IIRC LGA-YYZ was mainline up until a few years back. I would also think that DAY/CMH/CLE/XNA/IND/MEM/BNA/PWM/BGR/MSP/OKC are all likely safe, as are seasonal routes, while I see no future potentially for CAK/DTW/TYS/SDF, but who knows.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 763ER, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
tphuang
Posts: 5852
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:51 pm

USAirALB wrote:
One thing I have found interesting is the recent shift of several Canadian flights to all mainline. While granted it could be quite a while before we see the flights actually operate, but it looks like AA has scheduled PHL-YHZ, CLT-YUL to be entirely mainline and they added additional mainline service to CLT-YYZ.

AA's CLT-YYZ, DFW-YVR, PHX-YVR, PHX-YYC, DFW-YYC flights appear to be the only mainline flights into Canada by a US carrier currently operating with the exception of a single flight from DEN to both YYC/YVR on UA.

SurfandSnow wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I believe the following all lack a F cabin and are flown solely by ERDs based on this summer's dummy schedule:

-JFK-BWI/CVG/IND/YUL/BNA/ORF/PIT/RIC/RDU

-LGA-CHO/CVG/CAE/YUL/ROA/YYZ

Several city-pairs have already seen an up-gauge based on the pre-COVID schedule. I would assume these pairs are likely safe. Canada flights are likely safe as well.


I can't help but wonder if a number of those flights could be on the chopping block. IIRC JFK-RIC appeared to be a slot squatting exercise for AA, not unlike US's LGA-PHL operation in years past. I doubt B6 has any interest in trying something like JFK-BWI (B6 just announced a further delay in returning to BWI - now in June 2021) or resuming JFK-PIT/RIC services, either.

I do wonder about the possibility of B6 service to Canada, CVG and Hampton Roads, though. Those all seem like really important markets missing from the B6 route map - could the A220 be the perfect tool for B6 to change that? Does AA really make any money on a route like JFK-ORF?

I would assume JFK-PIT/RDU/BNA are probably safe. All are routes that could easily be flown by the E75. I do wonder if AA needs to serve YUL/YYZ from both JFK and LGA, and if it would make sense just to consolidate that flying at one airport, probably LGA. I really don't see a future for JFK-CVG/IND/ORF/RIC.

Looking at the LGA network, the smaller Southern stations, are a toss-up. AVL/CHS/GSO/ILM/MYR are probably all safe, and I think all are already E75 routes. I could see CAE/CHO/CVG getting dropped, with ROA kept and up-gauged to an E75. Canadian routes will be up-gauged, and IIRC LGA-YYZ was mainline up until a few years back. I would also think that DAY/CMH/CLE/XNA/IND/MEM/BNA/PWM/BGR/MSP/OKC are all likely safe, as are seasonal routes, while I see no future potentially for CAK/DTW/TYS/SDF, but who knows.


Keep in mind that business demand out of NYC is down a lot. Demand in general out of NYC is down a lot. Stuff that used to be flown on ERD would have a hard time to upgauge at a time when demand is down 30 to 50% in some markets.

I think the combined AA/B6 map will look quite different post-COVID. Makes no sense to hold onto some of those smaller markets which really are going to be uneconomical.
 
seatback
Posts: 620
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:00 am

AA's Seattle Strategy

Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:48 pm

Nice to see AA begin to finally play offense especially in markets like the Northwest and Northeast. A couple of questions regarding SEA:

1. Why would AA start SEA-LHR? Why not leave that to its metal neutral partner BA? Instead wouldn't it be better for AA to fly to another European destination (i.e. CDG, FRA etc...)
2. How will AA crew these long haul flights? Reopen their SEA crew base?
 
x1234
Posts: 1030
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: AA's Seattle Strategy

Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:54 pm

Its AA+AS versus DL. SEA is becoming a 2nd ORD/MDW with nearly 3 airlines competing for your business.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: AA's Seattle Strategy

Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:19 pm

seatback wrote:

1. Why would AA start SEA-LHR? Why not leave that to its metal neutral partner BA? Instead wouldn't it be better for AA to fly to another European destination (i.e. CDG, FRA etc...)?


The LHR flight will allow AA to rotate widebodies through SEA to the rest of the network. The LHR-SEA and PVG-SEA flights both arrive at about 4pm which allows planes to rotate through SEA. Eventually BLR can also rotate through once all long haul SEA flights are on 787s. That could be a reason.

I doubt AA and AS could justify any other European destination than LHR. MAD would be risky. CDG and FRA going up against AF/DL or LH would be tough.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 16

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos