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ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3891
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: AA's Seattle Strategy

Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:43 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
seatback wrote:

1. Why would AA start SEA-LHR? Why not leave that to its metal neutral partner BA? Instead wouldn't it be better for AA to fly to another European destination (i.e. CDG, FRA etc...)?


The LHR flight will allow AA to rotate widebodies through SEA to the rest of the network. The LHR-SEA and PVG-SEA flights both arrive at about 4pm which allows planes to rotate through SEA. Eventually BLR can also rotate through once all long haul SEA flights are on 787s. That could be a reason.

I doubt AA and AS could justify any other European destination than LHR. MAD would be risky. CDG and FRA going up against AF/DL or LH would be tough.


LHR will be flown (if it starts) with a 772. BLR and PVG are going to be flown on 787-9's that will rotate off each other so the LHR flight will most often rotate aircraft at LHR, given that AA flies that model from JFK, CLT, RDU, BOS (new) etc..alongside the 77W once all routes are back on line. In the event of IRROPS I guess AA will need to fly a 772 up to SEA from LAX or DFW, the closest airports that would have one in rotation.
Last edited by ContinentalEWR on Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 3353
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AA's Seattle Strategy

Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:45 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
The LHR flight will allow AA to rotate widebodies through SEA to the rest of the network. The LHR-SEA and PVG-SEA flights both arrive at about 4pm which allows planes to rotate through SEA. Eventually BLR can also rotate through once all long haul SEA flights are on 787s. That could be a reason.


SEA-LHR departs at 6:40 PM
LHR-SEA arrives at 3:50 PM

SEA-PVG departs at 12:50 PM
PVG-SEA arrives at 3:10 PM

If they rotate a 777-200ER on SEA-LHR-SEA-PVG-SEA, an aircraft will need to stay at SEA for 21 hours.

The rotation will likely be LHR-SEA-LHR similar to LHR-RDU-LHR.

For PVG, it could be hub-SEA-PVG-SEA-hub, possibly originating in LAX since SEA-PVG was shifted from there.

Regarding 787s at Seattle, AA will switch SEA-PVG to the 787-9 when SEA-BLR launches. SEA-LHR retains the 777-200ER, likely because AA's goal is to have all LHR flights on the 777.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3891
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: AA's Seattle Strategy

Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:47 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
The LHR flight will allow AA to rotate widebodies through SEA to the rest of the network. The LHR-SEA and PVG-SEA flights both arrive at about 4pm which allows planes to rotate through SEA. Eventually BLR can also rotate through once all long haul SEA flights are on 787s. That could be a reason.


SEA-LHR departs at 6:40 PM
LHR-SEA arrives at 3:50 PM

SEA-PVG departs at 12:50 PM
PVG-SEA arrives at 3:10 PM

If they rotate a 777-200ER on SEA-LHR-SEA-PVG-SEA, an aircraft will need to stay at SEA for 21 hours.

The rotation will likely be LHR-SEA-LHR similar to LHR-RDU-LHR.

For PVG, it could be hub-SEA-PVG-SEA-hub, possibly originating in LAX since SEA-PVG was shifted from there.

Regarding 787s at Seattle, AA will switch SEA-PVG to the 787-9 when SEA-BLR launches. SEA-LHR retains the 777-200ER, likely because AA's goal is to have all LHR flights on the 777.


Nope, AA flies the 787 on ORD-LHR and prior to their exit from the fleet and COVID19, AA operated the A333 from PHL and the A332/333 from CLT. CLT is now a 777 station.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 3353
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AA's Seattle Strategy

Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:56 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
LHR will be flown (if it starts) with a 772. BLR and PVG are going to be flown on 787-9's that will rotate off each other so the LHR flight will most often rotate aircraft at LHR, given that AA flies that model from JFK, CLT, RDU, BOS (new) etc..alongside the 77W once all routes are back on line. In the event of IRROPS I guess AA will need to fly a 772 up to SEA from LAX or DFW, the closest airports that would have one in rotation.


BOS-LHR was supposed to do a MIA-BOS-LHR-BOS-MIA rotation until COVID hit and delayed BOS-LHR to May 2021.

It looks like CLT-LHR does both MIA-CLT-LHR-CLT-MIA and LHR-CLT-LHR right now:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n765an
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n797an

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
The LHR flight will allow AA to rotate widebodies through SEA to the rest of the network. The LHR-SEA and PVG-SEA flights both arrive at about 4pm which allows planes to rotate through SEA. Eventually BLR can also rotate through once all long haul SEA flights are on 787s. That could be a reason.


SEA-LHR departs at 6:40 PM
LHR-SEA arrives at 3:50 PM

SEA-PVG departs at 12:50 PM
PVG-SEA arrives at 3:10 PM

If they rotate a 777-200ER on SEA-LHR-SEA-PVG-SEA, an aircraft will need to stay at SEA for 21 hours.

The rotation will likely be LHR-SEA-LHR similar to LHR-RDU-LHR.

For PVG, it could be hub-SEA-PVG-SEA-hub, possibly originating in LAX since SEA-PVG was shifted from there.

Regarding 787s at Seattle, AA will switch SEA-PVG to the 787-9 when SEA-BLR launches. SEA-LHR retains the 777-200ER, likely because AA's goal is to have all LHR flights on the 777.


Nope, AA flies the 787 on ORD-LHR and prior to their exit from the fleet and COVID19, AA operated the A333 from PHL and the A332/333 from CLT. CLT is now a 777 station.


At the moment AA is using a daily 788 on ORD-LHR due to reduced demand from COVID-19, but AA's full LHR schedule sees 4x daily 777-200ERs on ORD-LHR, 2x daily 772s on CLT-LHR, and 777s from every other one of AA's LHR routes.
 
x1234
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Re: AA's Seattle Strategy

Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:13 pm

With CX out of the SEA-HKG market maybe AA can fly SEA-HKG. I don't know when pre-COVID business travel will continue but HKG is important for both the tech industry in SEA and the finance industry in JFK/EWR. LGA-DFW-HKG is out of the way instead of JFK-SEA-HKG.
 
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UPlog
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:49 pm

American Airlines is telling its pilots to take the COVID-19 vaccine on their days off if they choose to be inoculated against the virus, which the company is not currently requiring.

"Your decision to take the vaccines is a personal decision and is currently not required by the Company,” American’s managing director of line operations, Chip Long, and managing director of flight operations, John Dudley, said in the joint memo.
“As such, if you elect to take the vaccine you should schedule it on your days off and so that it does not impact your ability to be in place and operate your scheduled flying given the 48-hour requirement,” they said.



https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SL1N2JO2RI
I fly your boxes
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3891
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: AA's Seattle Strategy

Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:52 pm

Ishrion wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
LHR will be flown (if it starts) with a 772. BLR and PVG are going to be flown on 787-9's that will rotate off each other so the LHR flight will most often rotate aircraft at LHR, given that AA flies that model from JFK, CLT, RDU, BOS (new) etc..alongside the 77W once all routes are back on line. In the event of IRROPS I guess AA will need to fly a 772 up to SEA from LAX or DFW, the closest airports that would have one in rotation.


BOS-LHR was supposed to do a MIA-BOS-LHR-BOS-MIA rotation until COVID hit and delayed BOS-LHR to May 2021.

It looks like CLT-LHR does both MIA-CLT-LHR-CLT-MIA and LHR-CLT-LHR right now:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n765an
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n797an

ContinentalEWR wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

SEA-LHR departs at 6:40 PM
LHR-SEA arrives at 3:50 PM

SEA-PVG departs at 12:50 PM
PVG-SEA arrives at 3:10 PM

If they rotate a 777-200ER on SEA-LHR-SEA-PVG-SEA, an aircraft will need to stay at SEA for 21 hours.

The rotation will likely be LHR-SEA-LHR similar to LHR-RDU-LHR.

For PVG, it could be hub-SEA-PVG-SEA-hub, possibly originating in LAX since SEA-PVG was shifted from there.

Regarding 787s at Seattle, AA will switch SEA-PVG to the 787-9 when SEA-BLR launches. SEA-LHR retains the 777-200ER, likely because AA's goal is to have all LHR flights on the 777.


Nope, AA flies the 787 on ORD-LHR and prior to their exit from the fleet and COVID19, AA operated the A333 from PHL and the A332/333 from CLT. CLT is now a 777 station.


At the moment AA is using a daily 788 on ORD-LHR due to reduced demand from COVID-19, but AA's full LHR schedule sees 4x daily 777-200ERs on ORD-LHR, 2x daily 772s on CLT-LHR, and 777s from every other one of AA's LHR routes.


Yeah, I wasn't talking about now though. Pre-COVID, AA on ORD-LHR was all 787 (a mix of 8 and 9). Future availability shows 3 x 772 and 1 x 789. AA had pre-COVID made ORD all 787 for long haul international but that's obviously evolving.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8995
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: AA's Seattle Strategy

Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:07 pm

x1234 wrote:
Its AA+AS versus DL. SEA is becoming a 2nd ORD/MDW with nearly 3 airlines competing for your business.


Three? More like two and a third. Look at 2019's avg daily flight counts for UA/AA at ORD and WN at MDW, and compare them to what AA proposed at SEA even pre-Covid.
 
seatback
Posts: 620
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:00 am

Re: AA's Seattle Strategy

Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:41 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Its AA+AS versus DL. SEA is becoming a 2nd ORD/MDW with nearly 3 airlines competing for your business.


Three? More like two and a third. Look at 2019's avg daily flight counts for UA/AA at ORD and WN at MDW, and compare them to what AA proposed at SEA even pre-Covid.


I hope not. I expect and hope that AA will stick to its hub flying out of SEA and target key international flights such as NRT, HKG, China, ICT, TPE, and Europe (CDG, FCO, AMS things that Alaska can't do.

If they stick to this, it will be something they've never done before.

...and I'll ask again, Is a crew base coming?
 
AC4500
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: AA's Seattle Strategy

Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:16 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
seatback wrote:

1. Why would AA start SEA-LHR? Why not leave that to its metal neutral partner BA? Instead wouldn't it be better for AA to fly to another European destination (i.e. CDG, FRA etc...)?


The LHR flight will allow AA to rotate widebodies through SEA to the rest of the network. The LHR-SEA and PVG-SEA flights both arrive at about 4pm which allows planes to rotate through SEA. Eventually BLR can also rotate through once all long haul SEA flights are on 787s. That could be a reason.

I doubt AA and AS could justify any other European destination than LHR. MAD would be risky. CDG and FRA going up against AF/DL or LH would be tough.

If AA were to start any other European destination from SEA, I would bet on it being SEA-FRA. As far as I'm aware, AS is not partnered with LH, so LH would potentially loose a fair amount of traffic to local Pacific Northwest residents loyal to AS (and subsequently AA).

At the moment however, I agree that AA can't really start any other European destination from SEA other than LHR. There's just too much competition in a fairly limited market.

On a different note, if OZ were to leave SEA-ICN, then AA could have some potential success there as well.
AS PDX-LAX: 737 MAX 9
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onwFan
Posts: 526
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:54 pm

TPAC is not easy for AA. But if they are still keen on it, I see the following in decreasing order of likelihood:-

1. SEA-HKG: AA just dropped LAX-HKG and CX is a close partner (they just pulled down SEA recently). 2x daily to HKG will offer good aircraft utilization.

2. SEA-PKX: CZ is growing quite a good hub there, but MU spoiled its chances by splitting operations between PEK & PKX, further reducing connections for DL. AA/AS/CZ will have double the feed of DL/MU at both SEA and PKX giving it an upper edge.

3. SEA-MNL: PR will be a new partner provided UA’s dispute is resolved. If they are serious about the partnership, this is a good opportunity, as no other airline will have the opportunity of feed at both SEA and MNL, nor do I see anyone else interested in this route.

4. SEA-ICN: will be a tough one for AA. But KE/AA have a cozy relationship & even cooperate on DFW-ICN. Depending on what the terms are for the KE/OZ merger, KE might be required to provide favorable interline rates to UA and AA if they want the JV with DL to be sustained (similar to what BA was required to at LHR).

5. SEA-SIN: will be tough for AA, but surely there is a market for it with the tech traffic. But this is probably not happening unless AS severs its ties with SQ.

I don’t see anything in Europe except LHR. The same reason why DL has not ventured beyond AMS/CDG/LHR.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3979
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: AA's Seattle Strategy

Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:59 pm

AC4500 wrote:
If AA were to start any other European destination from SEA, I would bet on it being SEA-FRA. As far as I'm aware, AS is not partnered with LH, so LH would potentially loose a fair amount of traffic to local Pacific Northwest residents loyal to AS (and subsequently AA).

At the moment however, I agree that AA can't really start any other European destination from SEA other than LHR. There's just too much competition in a fairly limited market.


There are European AS partners such as EI, BA, and FI that already serve SEA, and there is also already 1-stop connectivity from SEA to many European destinations not served nonstop from SEA on AA or AS's European partners.

There are also many AS FF's in the SEA market that would be willing to connect on AA, EI, BA, IB, or FI to European destinations that aren't served nonstop from SEA.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3979
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:21 pm

Even with the AA-AS partnership and AS SEA-ORD/DFW/LAX/PHL/PHX nonstop service, reasons why AA still operates SEA-ORD/DFW/LAX/PHL/PHX nonstop service include
(a) SEA being a major market that AA would continue to serve nonstop from most of its hubs, regardless of competition,
(b) the brand loyalty and FF base that AA has in its hub markets,
(c) the brand loyalty and FF base that AA has in markets not served by AS,
(d) many of the passengers booking flights to SEA through AA preferring AA-operated flights over AS-operated flights wherever possible, even from markets with nonstop service to SEA on AS,
(e) the connections that AA would be offering onto its long-haul international flights out of SEA from AA hubs, and
(f) the connections that AA offers to domestic destinations not served by AS.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2451
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:26 am

onwFan wrote:
TPAC is not easy for AA. But if they are still keen on it, I see the following in decreasing order of likelihood:-

1. SEA-HKG: AA just dropped LAX-HKG and CX is a close partner (they just pulled down SEA recently). 2x daily to HKG will offer good aircraft utilization.

2. SEA-PKX: CZ is growing quite a good hub there, but MU spoiled its chances by splitting operations between PEK & PKX, further reducing connections for DL. AA/AS/CZ will have double the feed of DL/MU at both SEA and PKX giving it an upper edge.

3. SEA-MNL: PR will be a new partner provided UA’s dispute is resolved. If they are serious about the partnership, this is a good opportunity, as no other airline will have the opportunity of feed at both SEA and MNL, nor do I see anyone else interested in this route.

4. SEA-ICN: will be a tough one for AA. But KE/AA have a cozy relationship & even cooperate on DFW-ICN. Depending on what the terms are for the KE/OZ merger, KE might be required to provide favorable interline rates to UA and AA if they want the JV with DL to be sustained (similar to what BA was required to at LHR).

5. SEA-SIN: will be tough for AA, but surely there is a market for it with the tech traffic. But this is probably not happening unless AS severs its ties with SQ.

I don’t see anything in Europe except LHR. The same reason why DL has not ventured beyond AMS/CDG/LHR.

I would add LAX-HKG to the top of that list. It's been widely reported amongst AA insiders that the company internally apparently seems very keen on resuming the route, and sooner rather than later.
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mjba257
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:02 am

onwFan wrote:
TPAC is not easy for AA. But if they are still keen on it, I see the following in decreasing order of likelihood:-

1. SEA-HKG: AA just dropped LAX-HKG and CX is a close partner (they just pulled down SEA recently). 2x daily to HKG will offer good aircraft utilization.

2. SEA-PKX: CZ is growing quite a good hub there, but MU spoiled its chances by splitting operations between PEK & PKX, further reducing connections for DL. AA/AS/CZ will have double the feed of DL/MU at both SEA and PKX giving it an upper edge.

3. SEA-MNL: PR will be a new partner provided UA’s dispute is resolved. If they are serious about the partnership, this is a good opportunity, as no other airline will have the opportunity of feed at both SEA and MNL, nor do I see anyone else interested in this route.

4. SEA-ICN: will be a tough one for AA. But KE/AA have a cozy relationship & even cooperate on DFW-ICN. Depending on what the terms are for the KE/OZ merger, KE might be required to provide favorable interline rates to UA and AA if they want the JV with DL to be sustained (similar to what BA was required to at LHR).

5. SEA-SIN: will be tough for AA, but surely there is a market for it with the tech traffic. But this is probably not happening unless AS severs its ties with SQ.

I don’t see anything in Europe except LHR. The same reason why DL has not ventured beyond AMS/CDG/LHR.


So is the consensus is that AA is going all in on SEA as a TPAC gateway? What does that mean for Delta? Will they pull down at SEA? Look elsewhere for a TPAC hub? DL for years benefited from the partnership with AS to feed TPAC flights until the decided to start feeding them with their own metal. With the growth of AA and said partnership with AS, that surely puts DL at a weak position in SEA. Unless they don't mind a dual hub, similar to UA/AA at ORD
 
seatback
Posts: 620
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:00 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:29 am

mjba257 wrote:
onwFan wrote:
Will they pull down at SEA? Look elsewhere for a TPAC hub? DL for years benefited from the partnership with AS to feed TPAC flights until the decided to start feeding them with their own metal. With the growth of AA and said partnership with AS, that surely puts DL at a weak position in SEA. Unless they don't mind a dual hub, similar to UA/AA at ORD


I don't think DL will give up that easily. I also don't know where they could do another TPAC hub, other than LA and we know how well that works out.

With the interesting new routes that AA has added or planned to add (pre-Covid) it wouldn't surprise me to see long shots like SIN, TPE, and HKG added out of SEA.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 3353
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:31 am

mjba257 wrote:
onwFan wrote:
TPAC is not easy for AA. But if they are still keen on it, I see the following in decreasing order of likelihood:-

1. SEA-HKG: AA just dropped LAX-HKG and CX is a close partner (they just pulled down SEA recently). 2x daily to HKG will offer good aircraft utilization.

2. SEA-PKX: CZ is growing quite a good hub there, but MU spoiled its chances by splitting operations between PEK & PKX, further reducing connections for DL. AA/AS/CZ will have double the feed of DL/MU at both SEA and PKX giving it an upper edge.

3. SEA-MNL: PR will be a new partner provided UA’s dispute is resolved. If they are serious about the partnership, this is a good opportunity, as no other airline will have the opportunity of feed at both SEA and MNL, nor do I see anyone else interested in this route.

4. SEA-ICN: will be a tough one for AA. But KE/AA have a cozy relationship & even cooperate on DFW-ICN. Depending on what the terms are for the KE/OZ merger, KE might be required to provide favorable interline rates to UA and AA if they want the JV with DL to be sustained (similar to what BA was required to at LHR).

5. SEA-SIN: will be tough for AA, but surely there is a market for it with the tech traffic. But this is probably not happening unless AS severs its ties with SQ.

I don’t see anything in Europe except LHR. The same reason why DL has not ventured beyond AMS/CDG/LHR.


So is the consensus is that AA is going all in on SEA as a TPAC gateway? What does that mean for Delta? Will they pull down at SEA? Look elsewhere for a TPAC hub? DL for years benefited from the partnership with AS to feed TPAC flights until the decided to start feeding them with their own metal. With the growth of AA and said partnership with AS, that surely puts DL at a weak position in SEA. Unless they don't mind a dual hub, similar to UA/AA at ORD


SEA as a TPAC gateway would be the most logical decision for AA since they can take advantage of Seattle's geographic location along with the existing corporate demand (SEA to India) paired with Alaska's extensive connections.

As for Delta, they'll have to compete against AA's growing presence in SEA. I'm unsure which routes they've suspended due to COVID-19, but I believe SEA-KIX is one of them. Delta dropped SEA-HKG years ago and Cathay Pacific launched the route shortly after but CX dropped it a few months ago.

As of now, they're willing to compete with AA/AS in SEA. Despite COVID, Delta loaded the SEA-LHR flight in response to AA's SEA-LHR.
 
mjba257
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:48 am

Ishrion wrote:
mjba257 wrote:
onwFan wrote:
TPAC is not easy for AA. But if they are still keen on it, I see the following in decreasing order of likelihood:-

1. SEA-HKG: AA just dropped LAX-HKG and CX is a close partner (they just pulled down SEA recently). 2x daily to HKG will offer good aircraft utilization.

2. SEA-PKX: CZ is growing quite a good hub there, but MU spoiled its chances by splitting operations between PEK & PKX, further reducing connections for DL. AA/AS/CZ will have double the feed of DL/MU at both SEA and PKX giving it an upper edge.

3. SEA-MNL: PR will be a new partner provided UA’s dispute is resolved. If they are serious about the partnership, this is a good opportunity, as no other airline will have the opportunity of feed at both SEA and MNL, nor do I see anyone else interested in this route.

4. SEA-ICN: will be a tough one for AA. But KE/AA have a cozy relationship & even cooperate on DFW-ICN. Depending on what the terms are for the KE/OZ merger, KE might be required to provide favorable interline rates to UA and AA if they want the JV with DL to be sustained (similar to what BA was required to at LHR).

5. SEA-SIN: will be tough for AA, but surely there is a market for it with the tech traffic. But this is probably not happening unless AS severs its ties with SQ.

I don’t see anything in Europe except LHR. The same reason why DL has not ventured beyond AMS/CDG/LHR.


So is the consensus is that AA is going all in on SEA as a TPAC gateway? What does that mean for Delta? Will they pull down at SEA? Look elsewhere for a TPAC hub? DL for years benefited from the partnership with AS to feed TPAC flights until the decided to start feeding them with their own metal. With the growth of AA and said partnership with AS, that surely puts DL at a weak position in SEA. Unless they don't mind a dual hub, similar to UA/AA at ORD


SEA as a TPAC gateway would be the most logical decision for AA since they can take advantage of Seattle's geographic location along with the existing corporate demand (SEA to India) paired with Alaska's extensive connections.

As for Delta, they'll have to compete against AA's growing presence in SEA. I'm unsure which routes they've suspended due to COVID-19, but I believe SEA-KIX is one of them. Delta dropped SEA-HKG years ago and Cathay Pacific launched the route shortly after but CX dropped it a few months ago.

As of now, they're willing to compete with AA/AS in SEA. Despite COVID, Delta loaded the SEA-LHR flight in response to AA's SEA-LHR.


It'll be interesting to see how things play out. Ultimately though, I think AA will come out the winner. That partnership with AS makes all the difference in the world, especially to native Seattlers, who take pride in their hometown carrier. DL doesn't have that same luxury.

Now, here is the ultimate wildcard - what are the chances an AA/AS merger occurs? Would the feds allow it?
 
sagechan
Posts: 364
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:34 am

mjba257 wrote:
onwFan wrote:
TPAC is not easy for AA. But if they are still keen on it, I see the following in decreasing order of likelihood:-

1. SEA-HKG: AA just dropped LAX-HKG and CX is a close partner (they just pulled down SEA recently). 2x daily to HKG will offer good aircraft utilization.

2. SEA-PKX: CZ is growing quite a good hub there, but MU spoiled its chances by splitting operations between PEK & PKX, further reducing connections for DL. AA/AS/CZ will have double the feed of DL/MU at both SEA and PKX giving it an upper edge.

3. SEA-MNL: PR will be a new partner provided UA’s dispute is resolved. If they are serious about the partnership, this is a good opportunity, as no other airline will have the opportunity of feed at both SEA and MNL, nor do I see anyone else interested in this route.

4. SEA-ICN: will be a tough one for AA. But KE/AA have a cozy relationship & even cooperate on DFW-ICN. Depending on what the terms are for the KE/OZ merger, KE might be required to provide favorable interline rates to UA and AA if they want the JV with DL to be sustained (similar to what BA was required to at LHR).

5. SEA-SIN: will be tough for AA, but surely there is a market for it with the tech traffic. But this is probably not happening unless AS severs its ties with SQ.

I don’t see anything in Europe except LHR. The same reason why DL has not ventured beyond AMS/CDG/LHR.


So is the consensus is that AA is going all in on SEA as a TPAC gateway? What does that mean for Delta? Will they pull down at SEA? Look elsewhere for a TPAC hub? DL for years benefited from the partnership with AS to feed TPAC flights until the decided to start feeding them with their own metal. With the growth of AA and said partnership with AS, that surely puts DL at a weak position in SEA. Unless they don't mind a dual hub, similar to UA/AA at ORD


My opinion on this is SEA becomes the second option to DFW serving a few types of TPAC for AA.

1) TPAC destinations that can't be reached economically from DFW

2) Key Business destinations that AA needs for west coast network reasons that doesn't back track to DFW

3) Any O&D + AS PNW connections that locally support a route.

I think AA & AS will be more than happy to use OW partners where available as well.

As far as routes.
AA will launch a second HKG from somewhere, but may still be LAX, the aircraft utilization with just DFW is terrible.

PKX is a possibility if China demand recovers, but I think it will be limited to DFW for a few years at least

SIN - biggest issue is it's just dominated by *A

MNL - possible if we get back to '19 level of traffic with growth trends again

ICN - Dominated by Skyteam, could happen if OW grabs right corporate accounts.

Secondary Japan - more likely DFW on AA metal, not SEA JL would handle west coast expansions

TPE - DFW first,

Other India - JFK or DFW seem more likely as east bound works
717, 733, 734, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 772, 77W, 789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A359, MD88, CRJ, CR7, CR9, DH1, DH2, DH3, S340, ER4, E170, E175, E190/CO, NW, US, AC, NH, AA, UA, DL, WN, WS, SK, VY, LA, QF, AR, AV, MH, KA, AS
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2920
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:33 pm

There’s a lot of delusional here with all this speculation about the country’s weakest airline financially, operating in the worst international environment we’ve ever seen, out of an entirely new “hub” suddenly starting all of these incredibly expensive international flights against already entrenched carriers and somehow running off the competition and making it so others “don’t stand a chance.” AA’s widebody fleet is significantly smaller than it used to be. There’s no way we’re going to see AA duplicating what it had/has at DFW and LAX from SEA. SEA is a smaller market and already has strong competition to all of the largest markets, not a good place for a struggling, high-cost carrier to be. I see BLR and LHR and maybe one or two more routes to OW strongholds (perhaps a resumption of Tokyo) but I don’t foresee AA suddenly operating a UA/SFO-style hub at SEA. If they do, it will be a brutal, loss-leading operation for years to come.

Jeremy
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5392
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:57 pm

mjba257 wrote:
onwFan wrote:
TPAC is not easy for AA. But if they are still keen on it, I see the following in decreasing order of likelihood:-

1. SEA-HKG: AA just dropped LAX-HKG and CX is a close partner (they just pulled down SEA recently). 2x daily to HKG will offer good aircraft utilization.

2. SEA-PKX: CZ is growing quite a good hub there, but MU spoiled its chances by splitting operations between PEK & PKX, further reducing connections for DL. AA/AS/CZ will have double the feed of DL/MU at both SEA and PKX giving it an upper edge.

3. SEA-MNL: PR will be a new partner provided UA’s dispute is resolved. If they are serious about the partnership, this is a good opportunity, as no other airline will have the opportunity of feed at both SEA and MNL, nor do I see anyone else interested in this route.

4. SEA-ICN: will be a tough one for AA. But KE/AA have a cozy relationship & even cooperate on DFW-ICN. Depending on what the terms are for the KE/OZ merger, KE might be required to provide favorable interline rates to UA and AA if they want the JV with DL to be sustained (similar to what BA was required to at LHR).

5. SEA-SIN: will be tough for AA, but surely there is a market for it with the tech traffic. But this is probably not happening unless AS severs its ties with SQ.

I don’t see anything in Europe except LHR. The same reason why DL has not ventured beyond AMS/CDG/LHR.


So is the consensus is that AA is going all in on SEA as a TPAC gateway? What does that mean for Delta? Will they pull down at SEA? Look elsewhere for a TPAC hub? DL for years benefited from the partnership with AS to feed TPAC flights until the decided to start feeding them with their own metal. With the growth of AA and said partnership with AS, that surely puts DL at a weak position in SEA. Unless they don't mind a dual hub, similar to UA/AA at ORD

So American doing exactly what Delta tried to do and failed......some how puts American in the stronger position? Huh?
mjba257 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
mjba257 wrote:

So is the consensus is that AA is going all in on SEA as a TPAC gateway? What does that mean for Delta? Will they pull down at SEA? Look elsewhere for a TPAC hub? DL for years benefited from the partnership with AS to feed TPAC flights until the decided to start feeding them with their own metal. With the growth of AA and said partnership with AS, that surely puts DL at a weak position in SEA. Unless they don't mind a dual hub, similar to UA/AA at ORD


SEA as a TPAC gateway would be the most logical decision for AA since they can take advantage of Seattle's geographic location along with the existing corporate demand (SEA to India) paired with Alaska's extensive connections.

As for Delta, they'll have to compete against AA's growing presence in SEA. I'm unsure which routes they've suspended due to COVID-19, but I believe SEA-KIX is one of them. Delta dropped SEA-HKG years ago and Cathay Pacific launched the route shortly after but CX dropped it a few months ago.

As of now, they're willing to compete with AA/AS in SEA. Despite COVID, Delta loaded the SEA-LHR flight in response to AA's SEA-LHR.


It'll be interesting to see how things play out. Ultimately though, I think AA will come out the winner. That partnership with AS makes all the difference in the world, especially to native Seattlers, who take pride in their hometown carrier. DL doesn't have that same luxury.

Now, here is the ultimate wildcard - what are the chances an AA/AS merger occurs? Would the feds allow it?


Exactly why Delta dropped the same exact deal and brought the flying in-house. It isn't because the "codeshare to outsource domestic flying" thing wasn't working, its because the most profitable airline pre-COVID was just ran by fools.

yeah. Makes total sense. Delta's screwed. I think American should codeshare with southwest next so they can take over Atlanta like they are going to take over New York and Seattle. :lol: :lol:
SESGDL wrote:
There’s a lot of delusional here with all this speculation about the country’s weakest airline financially, operating in the worst international environment we’ve ever seen, out of an entirely new “hub” suddenly starting all of these incredibly expensive international flights against already entrenched carriers and somehow running off the competition and making it so others “don’t stand a chance.” AA’s widebody fleet is significantly smaller than it used to be. There’s no way we’re going to see AA duplicating what it had/has at DFW and LAX from SEA. SEA is a smaller market and already has strong competition to all of the largest markets, not a good place for a struggling, high-cost carrier to be. I see BLR and LHR and maybe one or two more routes to OW strongholds (perhaps a resumption of Tokyo) but I don’t foresee AA suddenly operating a UA/SFO-style hub at SEA. If they do, it will be a brutal, loss-leading operation for years to come.

Jeremy

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
 
AC4500
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:12 pm

SESGDL wrote:
There’s a lot of delusional here with all this speculation about the country’s weakest airline financially, operating in the worst international environment we’ve ever seen, out of an entirely new “hub” suddenly starting all of these incredibly expensive international flights against already entrenched carriers and somehow running off the competition and making it so others “don’t stand a chance.” AA’s widebody fleet is significantly smaller than it used to be. There’s no way we’re going to see AA duplicating what it had/has at DFW and LAX from SEA. SEA is a smaller market and already has strong competition to all of the largest markets, not a good place for a struggling, high-cost carrier to be. I see BLR and LHR and maybe one or two more routes to OW strongholds (perhaps a resumption of Tokyo) but I don’t foresee AA suddenly operating a UA/SFO-style hub at SEA. If they do, it will be a brutal, loss-leading operation for years to come.

Jeremy

:checkmark: :checkmark: Could not have said it any better myself. TBH, I think people have overestimated the size of the Seattle market. I'm not suggesting that the market is too small for AA's current plans in SEA, but I don't really see a whole lot of growth beyond BLR, PVG and LHR. Maybe SEA-ICN in 3 to 4 years if the first three long-haul routes are successful. We've already seen DL respond to AA with their own plans for (re)launching SEA-LHR (which sadly, seems to have permanently replaced their PDX-LHR flight :( ).

To add on to your point, SEA has very limited gate space available, particularly in the South Satellite Terminal which is the only viable place within the airport that AA can operate these international widebody flights from, and once long-haul / international traffic begins to recover, DL is going to try to retain as much gate space as possible in order to keep AA from getting their hands on those South Satellite gates.
AS PDX-LAX: 737 MAX 9
QX LAX-PDX: E175
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:59 pm

AA to launch daily Charlotte (CLT) to Alexandria, Louisiana (AEX) starting April 2, 2021:

“We look forward to introducing our second largest hub, CLT, to customers in Alexandria,” said Brian Znotins, American’s Vice President of Network Planning. “Flights to CLT introduce several new connections up and down the east coast as customers begin to resume travel. American has taken every effort to ensure the well-being of customers throughout their journey, while offering more flexibility and choice than ever before.”


https://www.kalb.com/2021/01/15/america ... ce-to-clt/
 
hoons90
Posts: 3800
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:18 pm

If AA never attempted LAX-ICN which is a significantly larger market, I highly doubt they would start SEA-ICN.
DFW-ICN has never been larger than a 772 or 789 even despite the monolith that is the DFW hub (compared to SEA).
Flown: 2L 7C 9E 9L AA AB AC AF AY AZ BA BR BX B6 CA CO CP CX DL EK EY JL KE KL LA LH LX MQ NW OZ PD RW SQ TG TP TR TS US WG WN WS XE XJ
 
User avatar
Rookie87
Posts: 295
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:51 pm

hoons90 wrote:
If AA never attempted LAX-ICN which is a significantly larger market, I highly doubt they would start SEA-ICN.
DFW-ICN has never been larger than a 772 or 789 even despite the monolith that is the DFW hub (compared to SEA).


I dont understand this statement though...

LAX would be competing vs A380s from Korean and Asiana, multiple dailies...
At DFW, larger than 772 would be the 77W and the question would be would the market warrant a first class product (no idea but I'm sure AA knows). Now if it was on the 788 I'd understand your reasoning for DFW but it's on their largest wide bodies w/o the first class product that is used on markets where that sells best.

SEA-ICN with the absence of Asiana or Korean (not sure who flew it) would make a lot more sense than LAX despite market size.
 
x1234
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:58 pm

We keep forgetting the alliance driven nature of airlines. AA has publicly stated that HKG has higher yields than PEK/PVG and is similar to ICN and HND/NRT. They can sell full fare J to HKG for the tech and finance industries. UA has publicly stated SIN is their highest yielding route in the TPAC network and the second is HKG. AA would be smart to launch SEA-HKG and take over the route from CX. Also AA heavily relies on CX feed to SE and South Asia. Remember from the West Coast, HKG is a good connection point to India.
 
onwFan
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:38 pm

AC4500 wrote:
We've already seen DL respond to AA with their own plans for (re)launching SEA-LHR (which sadly, seems to have permanently replaced their PDX-LHR flight.

What are the odds that that SEA-LHR even launches? Even VS doesn’t fly on the route now. There is no way DL/VS are flying 2x daily anytime soon. SEA-PKX cannot come back for probably another year. Watch out for PDX/MSP-HND next when the slot waivers end.

DL previously had the privilege to dilly-dally with a lot of things like HND, SEA, BOS, MIA (not to mention all those focus cities), but right now? I doubt it, especially for the next few years with depressed business demand. AA knows that DL will have to make numerous adjustments to their TPAC operations, especially with the KE/OZ merger. AA’s west coast strategy will be closely tied to DL’s plans at HND and SEA.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5852
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:28 am

x1234 wrote:
We keep forgetting the alliance driven nature of airlines. AA has publicly stated that HKG has higher yields than PEK/PVG and is similar to ICN and HND/NRT. They can sell full fare J to HKG for the tech and finance industries. UA has publicly stated SIN is their highest yielding route in the TPAC network and the second is HKG. AA would be smart to launch SEA-HKG and take over the route from CX. Also AA heavily relies on CX feed to SE and South Asia. Remember from the West Coast, HKG is a good connection point to India.

Asia as a whole is very low yielding due to the Chines carriers. I see not reason for that to change post covid.

It doesnt seem like the airlines are understanding the magnitude At which companies are moving out of Hong Kong to Singapore and Taiwan. I think all this talk of bringing back hkg from lax and even sea are sheer lunacy
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3891
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:22 am

tphuang wrote:
x1234 wrote:
We keep forgetting the alliance driven nature of airlines. AA has publicly stated that HKG has higher yields than PEK/PVG and is similar to ICN and HND/NRT. They can sell full fare J to HKG for the tech and finance industries. UA has publicly stated SIN is their highest yielding route in the TPAC network and the second is HKG. AA would be smart to launch SEA-HKG and take over the route from CX. Also AA heavily relies on CX feed to SE and South Asia. Remember from the West Coast, HKG is a good connection point to India.

Asia as a whole is very low yielding due to the Chines carriers. I see not reason for that to change post covid.

It doesnt seem like the airlines are understanding the magnitude At which companies are moving out of Hong Kong to Singapore and Taiwan. I think all this talk of bringing back hkg from lax and even sea are sheer lunacy


"Asia as a whole is very low yielding due to Chinese carriers"?? I think you mean US-China, is, or was, pre-COVID, yes, perhaps, but everyone was in the US-China market because they had to be in order to be relevant. I'd agree, LAX-HKG on AA isn't coming back. The dynamics of the US-HKG market were fundamentally changing before COVID and due to the civil unrest there. Migration of businesses from Hong Kong to Singapore, for sure. Taiwan? Not as much.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5271
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:24 am

USAirALB wrote:
One thing I have found interesting is the recent shift of several Canadian flights to all mainline. While granted it could be quite a while before we see the flights actually operate, but it looks like AA has scheduled PHL-YHZ, CLT-YUL to be entirely mainline and they added additional mainline service to CLT-YYZ.

AA's CLT-YYZ, DFW-YVR, PHX-YVR, PHX-YYC, DFW-YYC flights appear to be the only mainline flights into Canada by a US carrier currently operating with the exception of a single flight from DEN to both YYC/YVR on UA.

SurfandSnow wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I believe the following all lack a F cabin and are flown solely by ERDs based on this summer's dummy schedule:

-JFK-BWI/CVG/IND/YUL/BNA/ORF/PIT/RIC/RDU

-LGA-CHO/CVG/CAE/YUL/ROA/YYZ

Several city-pairs have already seen an up-gauge based on the pre-COVID schedule. I would assume these pairs are likely safe. Canada flights are likely safe as well.


I can't help but wonder if a number of those flights could be on the chopping block. IIRC JFK-RIC appeared to be a slot squatting exercise for AA, not unlike US's LGA-PHL operation in years past. I doubt B6 has any interest in trying something like JFK-BWI (B6 just announced a further delay in returning to BWI - now in June 2021) or resuming JFK-PIT/RIC services, either.

I do wonder about the possibility of B6 service to Canada, CVG and Hampton Roads, though. Those all seem like really important markets missing from the B6 route map - could the A220 be the perfect tool for B6 to change that? Does AA really make any money on a route like JFK-ORF?

I would assume JFK-PIT/RDU/BNA are probably safe. All are routes that could easily be flown by the E75. I do wonder if AA needs to serve YUL/YYZ from both JFK and LGA, and if it would make sense just to consolidate that flying at one airport, probably LGA. I really don't see a future for JFK-CVG/IND/ORF/RIC.

Looking at the LGA network, the smaller Southern stations, are a toss-up. AVL/CHS/GSO/ILM/MYR are probably all safe, and I think all are already E75 routes. I could see CAE/CHO/CVG getting dropped, with ROA kept and up-gauged to an E75. Canadian routes will be up-gauged, and IIRC LGA-YYZ was mainline up until a few years back. I would also think that DAY/CMH/CLE/XNA/IND/MEM/BNA/PWM/BGR/MSP/OKC are all likely safe, as are seasonal routes, while I see no future potentially for CAK/DTW/TYS/SDF, but who knows.


I've always felt like most of the AA routes out of CAK would be safe as long as PSA had a MX base there.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
tphuang
Posts: 5852
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:10 am

ContinentalEWR wrote:
tphuang wrote:
x1234 wrote:
We keep forgetting the alliance driven nature of airlines. AA has publicly stated that HKG has higher yields than PEK/PVG and is similar to ICN and HND/NRT. They can sell full fare J to HKG for the tech and finance industries. UA has publicly stated SIN is their highest yielding route in the TPAC network and the second is HKG. AA would be smart to launch SEA-HKG and take over the route from CX. Also AA heavily relies on CX feed to SE and South Asia. Remember from the West Coast, HKG is a good connection point to India.

Asia as a whole is very low yielding due to the Chines carriers. I see not reason for that to change post covid.

It doesnt seem like the airlines are understanding the magnitude At which companies are moving out of Hong Kong to Singapore and Taiwan. I think all this talk of bringing back hkg from lax and even sea are sheer lunacy


"Asia as a whole is very low yielding due to Chinese carriers"?? I think you mean US-China, is, or was, pre-COVID, yes, perhaps, but everyone was in the US-China market because they had to be in order to be relevant. I'd agree, LAX-HKG on AA isn't coming back. The dynamics of the US-HKG market were fundamentally changing before COVID and due to the civil unrest there. Migration of businesses from Hong Kong to Singapore, for sure. Taiwan? Not as much.


The chinese carriers killed the yield on the us to south east asia markets. I routinely got sub $3000 fares in lie flat seating to singapore, thailand and other places

According to people I know in that area, taiwan is doing really well because companies are moving there from Hong Kong.
 
ahj2000
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:41 am

Ishrion wrote:
AA to launch daily Charlotte (CLT) to Alexandria, Louisiana (AEX) starting April 2, 2021:

“We look forward to introducing our second largest hub, CLT, to customers in Alexandria,” said Brian Znotins, American’s Vice President of Network Planning. “Flights to CLT introduce several new connections up and down the east coast as customers begin to resume travel. American has taken every effort to ensure the well-being of customers throughout their journey, while offering more flexibility and choice than ever before.”


https://www.kalb.com/2021/01/15/america ... ce-to-clt/

Well that makes a ton of sense. It was always weird to me that there were some ex-AA only routes in the Southeast that never got connected to CLT. I imagine there's a good bit of business traffic to the Northeast Corridor that is far better served via CLT than DFW. Not to mention that it would give them an advantage against DL, who only offers ATL. West and east would be easily served from both. (Florida and the Mouse, less so.) Places like MLU and LFT, which have a decent number of pax, could benefit from the additional service. Kind of like how AA has added a bunch of Midwest-CLT stuff over the past 5 years. Geographically speaking, AA has an awesome layout of hubs. The more connected their mid and small spokes are, the more useful and attractive the network will be as a whole.
-Andrés Juánez
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3891
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:02 pm

tphuang wrote:
ContinentalEWR wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Asia as a whole is very low yielding due to the Chines carriers. I see not reason for that to change post covid.

It doesnt seem like the airlines are understanding the magnitude At which companies are moving out of Hong Kong to Singapore and Taiwan. I think all this talk of bringing back hkg from lax and even sea are sheer lunacy


"Asia as a whole is very low yielding due to Chinese carriers"?? I think you mean US-China, is, or was, pre-COVID, yes, perhaps, but everyone was in the US-China market because they had to be in order to be relevant. I'd agree, LAX-HKG on AA isn't coming back. The dynamics of the US-HKG market were fundamentally changing before COVID and due to the civil unrest there. Migration of businesses from Hong Kong to Singapore, for sure. Taiwan? Not as much.


The chinese carriers killed the yield on the us to south east asia markets. I routinely got sub $3000 fares in lie flat seating to singapore, thailand and other places

According to people I know in that area, taiwan is doing really well because companies are moving there from Hong Kong.


Taiwan is one of the few countries in the world that has so far managed COVID very well and that is inspiring more businesses to move there, yes, that's true. TPAC profitability, from the US point-of-sale perspective is all dependent on broad corporate contracts, cargo, and geography. The China-based airlines did dump capacity and thus lowered fares considerably and the rebuild post COVID will likely not be as extensive as it was pre-COVID for most of the players in the US-Asia market. If there is consolidation though among the non-Chinese carriers (KE, OZ) and potentially, but not likely, JL and NH, then the competitive landscape and dynamic is going to change again.
 
JohanTally
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:33 pm

AA was test fitting the E175 on E concourse at CLT with the expectation that Envoy will start flying their 175s through CLT. EN is expected to service these aircraft.
 
MLIAA
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:22 am

JohanTally wrote:
AA was test fitting the E175 on E concourse at CLT with the expectation that Envoy will start flying their 175s through CLT. EN is expected to service these aircraft.


You sure it’s not going to be Republic? Envoy 175s have never operated through CLT, while YX does quite a bit, and maybe even more now that their MIA ops will wind down.

Still a very interesting development, they probably need the B/C concourse gates for mainline and don’t want 175s there when they can put 321s there.

I wonder if PHL could see the same at terminal F.
A319 A320 A321 A332 B712 B722 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B763 B764 B772 B788 B789 MD80 S340 E140 E145 E170 E175 E195 CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9
 
ABEguy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:49 pm

MLIAA wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
AA was test fitting the E175 on E concourse at CLT with the expectation that Envoy will start flying their 175s through CLT. EN is expected to service these aircraft.


You sure it’s not going to be Republic? Envoy 175s have never operated through CLT, while YX does quite a bit, and maybe even more now that their MIA ops will wind down.

Still a very interesting development, they probably need the B/C concourse gates for mainline and don’t want 175s there when they can put 321s there.

I wonder if PHL could see the same at terminal F.


RAH did park their 170’s on E concourse in the US Air express days. Limited to E-15/17/18/19 I believe.
 
JohanTally
Posts: 243
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:46 pm

MLIAA wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
AA was test fitting the E175 on E concourse at CLT with the expectation that Envoy will start flying their 175s through CLT. EN is expected to service these aircraft.


You sure it’s not going to be Republic? Envoy 175s have never operated through CLT, while YX does quite a bit, and maybe even more now that their MIA ops will wind down.

Still a very interesting development, they probably need the B/C concourse gates for mainline and don’t want 175s there when they can put 321s there.

I wonder if PHL could see the same at terminal F.


Initially it would just be Envoy because the Republic flights will continue to be worked by AA mainline. Obviously while AA looks to save money they may reassess who handles the 175s at CLT. IMHO this is a prelude of things to come, $13hr vs topped out $34hr AA employees working 175s
 
JohanTally
Posts: 243
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:52 pm

ABEguy wrote:
MLIAA wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
AA was test fitting the E175 on E concourse at CLT with the expectation that Envoy will start flying their 175s through CLT. EN is expected to service these aircraft.


You sure it’s not going to be Republic? Envoy 175s have never operated through CLT, while YX does quite a bit, and maybe even more now that their MIA ops will wind down.

Still a very interesting development, they probably need the B/C concourse gates for mainline and don’t want 175s there when they can put 321s there.

I wonder if PHL could see the same at terminal F.


RAH did park their 170’s on E concourse in the US Air express days. Limited to E-15/17/18/19 I believe.


170 and 175s used to be handled on E2 E3 E12 E13A E14A E15 E17 E25A,B,C and E26A,B,C I might of missed a couple. It takes some getting used to loading and uploading on the FO side but they are quite a bit shorter than CR9s which is how they fit on E2
 
USAirALB
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:18 am

In addition to AEX, they are also starting CLT-LFT.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 763ER, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
OKCDCA
Posts: 264
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:23 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Helena Airport (HLN) in Montana is eyeing AA service from Phoenix.

HLN is seeking community support to attract AA and plans to apply for a DOT Small Community Air Service Development Grant.

They aim for a PHX-HLN flight to begin in late 2021 or early 2022.

https://helenair.com/news/local/helena- ... 63202.html


This would be interesting if its launched, I would think BZN & MSO would be first since demand is already proven with G4 serving from IWA for well over 10+ years


Any idea how the new (ok, I guess technically resumed - HP did offer these flights many, many years ago!) PHX-BIL flights are doing? I would have to think PHX-BZN/FCA/MSO are all strong contenders, as well as a resumption of PHX-SUN of course!

Has anyone heard if PHX-COS will be resuming? When it started last year it was 2x daily CRJ and quickly went to 3x daily with 2 CR7’s and a 319. I figured with COS being an outdoors destination it might be one that would come back quickly. And with WN entering the market, I’m surprised AA isn’t going to protect its turf.
 
User avatar
BA744PHX
Posts: 437
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:42 am

OKCDCA wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:

This would be interesting if its launched, I would think BZN & MSO would be first since demand is already proven with G4 serving from IWA for well over 10+ years


Any idea how the new (ok, I guess technically resumed - HP did offer these flights many, many years ago!) PHX-BIL flights are doing? I would have to think PHX-BZN/FCA/MSO are all strong contenders, as well as a resumption of PHX-SUN of course!

Has anyone heard if PHX-COS will be resuming? When it started last year it was 2x daily CRJ and quickly went to 3x daily with 2 CR7’s and a 319. I figured with COS being an outdoors destination it might be one that would come back quickly. And with WN entering the market, I’m surprised AA isn’t going to protect its turf.


PHX-COS still troubles me, not sure why this hasn't resumed, however WN is starting twice daily PHX-COS March 11. I wonder if there will be any room for AA now.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3979
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:27 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
OKCDCA wrote:
Has anyone heard if PHX-COS will be resuming? When it started last year it was 2x daily CRJ and quickly went to 3x daily with 2 CR7’s and a 319. I figured with COS being an outdoors destination it might be one that would come back quickly. And with WN entering the market, I’m surprised AA isn’t going to protect its turf.


PHX-COS still troubles me, not sure why this hasn't resumed, however WN is starting twice daily PHX-COS March 11. I wonder if there will be any room for AA now.


While AA already has nonstop service out of PHX on at least a seasonal basis to most of the destinations that WN serves nonstop from PHX, there are a few destinations served nonstop out of PHX on WN but not on AA such as BUF and SDF.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:56 pm

I find it interesting how, with so many routes seeing Eagle metal, some routes now have mainline for the first time in a while. MIA-SAV and MIA-JAX come to mind.

Also surprised but delighted to see many PHX destinations seeing A319s, like FAR, OMA, and DSM. It's also interesting to see PHX-YYC/YVR reintroduced on mainline, even as the border remains closed.
Next flights:
March 14: Delta Air Lines DL1375, STL-SLC, Airbus A220-300
March 20: Southwest Airlines WN5412, SLC-STL, Boeing 737-700
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7192
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:22 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
I find it interesting how, with so many routes seeing Eagle metal, some routes now have mainline for the first time in a while. MIA-SAV and MIA-JAX come to mind.

Also surprised but delighted to see many PHX destinations seeing A319s, like FAR, OMA, and DSM. It's also interesting to see PHX-YYC/YVR reintroduced on mainline, even as the border remains closed.


It's peak winter time now, which makes sense for mainline from those cold places to come down to Arizona for the winter.

The border is technically closed, but Canadians are still allowed to come into the US (via air) without any restrictions (aside from whatever the requirement at the destination might be, if there is one). Canadians are also allowed to go back to Canada at any point, they just need to do a 14 day quarantine.

Given that most of the people coming down now are staying for at least a month (and for most of them, it's going to be 2-3 months), it's probably worth it to cross the border to escape the cold, have an enjoyable winter, and then come April, there's a chance the situation might have changed regarding the mandated 14-day quarantine upon return.
 
JohanTally
Posts: 243
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:41 pm

USAirALB wrote:
In addition to AEX, they are also starting CLT-LFT.


Seems like that region is going to have some serious lift between GPT, BTR, MSY, and JAN plus the new additions
 
User avatar
N62NA
Posts: 4496
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:26 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
I find it interesting how, with so many routes seeing Eagle metal, some routes now have mainline for the first time in a while. MIA-SAV and MIA-JAX come to mind.

Also surprised but delighted to see many PHX destinations seeing A319s, like FAR, OMA, and DSM. It's also interesting to see PHX-YYC/YVR reintroduced on mainline, even as the border remains closed.



MIA-SAV is interesting. Though a 9:25pm departure? Definitely not a very desirable departure time.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 7192
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:45 pm

N62NA wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
I find it interesting how, with so many routes seeing Eagle metal, some routes now have mainline for the first time in a while. MIA-SAV and MIA-JAX come to mind.

Also surprised but delighted to see many PHX destinations seeing A319s, like FAR, OMA, and DSM. It's also interesting to see PHX-YYC/YVR reintroduced on mainline, even as the border remains closed.



MIA-SAV is interesting. Though a 9:25pm departure? Definitely not a very desirable departure time.


Seems about right. AA has a pretty decent sized departure bank around 2030-2130 which covers most of the United States - it allows for pretty easy connections to/from the Caribbean.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2451
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:16 pm

Regarding the E-Jets at the CLT E Gates, I have noticed that AA has slowly shifted the E170/E175 out of CLT in favor of PSA CR9s.

The E170/175 still frequents CLT and is a mainstay on some routes (CLT-EYW, for example) but it is nowhere as frequent as it used to be.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 763ER, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1236
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:21 pm

deltairlines wrote:
N62NA wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
I find it interesting how, with so many routes seeing Eagle metal, some routes now have mainline for the first time in a while. MIA-SAV and MIA-JAX come to mind.

Also surprised but delighted to see many PHX destinations seeing A319s, like FAR, OMA, and DSM. It's also interesting to see PHX-YYC/YVR reintroduced on mainline, even as the border remains closed.



MIA-SAV is interesting. Though a 9:25pm departure? Definitely not a very desirable departure time.


Seems about right. AA has a pretty decent sized departure bank around 2030-2130 which covers most of the United States - it allows for pretty easy connections to/from the Caribbean.
Exactly. That’s a normal departure time ex MIA to connect incoming Caribbean flights to domestic destinations.
 
AC4500
Posts: 272
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:40 pm

N62NA wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
I find it interesting how, with so many routes seeing Eagle metal, some routes now have mainline for the first time in a while. MIA-SAV and MIA-JAX come to mind.

Also surprised but delighted to see many PHX destinations seeing A319s, like FAR, OMA, and DSM. It's also interesting to see PHX-YYC/YVR reintroduced on mainline, even as the border remains closed.



MIA-SAV is interesting. Though a 9:25pm departure? Definitely not a very desirable departure time.

I believe AA has a pretty busy departure flight bank at MIA from 9:00 PM to 10:00 PM.

Here's an inconvenient flight: Their MIA-SEA flight departs from MIA at 9:05 PM and arrives at Seattle at 1:03 AM. At least the MIA-SAV flight arrives before midnight (at 11:06 PM).
AS PDX-LAX: 737 MAX 9
QX LAX-PDX: E175

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