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Ishrion
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:00 pm

tphuang wrote:
If i understood the LOA correctly, it means JetBlue can't put AA codeshare on its focus city to focus city routes or on international routes that are within range of its aircraft. AA theoretically can put its codeshare on all the JetBlue flights I would imagine.


So, with the A321LR’s 4,000nmi range, that means no B6 codeshare on AA’s JFK-LHR/MAD/BCN/FCO/CDG/MXP routes? Just JFK-ATH/TLV/EZE/GRU/GIG?
 
nc3rd
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:40 pm

So doesnt that just mean that the those flights could still be done by AA, and the connecting flight (if on jetblue) could have an AA code all the way through? I dont see how it changes much. These arent Jetblue's transatlantic routes, they have none.
The views written above are mine and mine alone and do not represent any official information from any airline or company
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:41 pm

Again, if I understand what LOA was trying to accomplish, that means no B6 codeshare on AA metal for JFK/BOS-LAX or LGA/JFK-BOS or BOS/JFK-FLL. The biggest loss are probably the 2 LAX routes and BOS-LGA.

As for A321LR, I think JetBlue has its own view of range of the aircraft. So JFK-LHR/CDG are probably no go, but the other routes would be viewed as outside of the range of LR. Of course, XLR would put everything other than JFK-ATH/TLV/EZE within range. All the caribbean stuff won't get B6 codeshares, but I don't think that's a big deal.

If I had to guess, I think JetBlue will try to work this out with the pilots since not being able to codeshare on important business routes like JFK-LAX and LGA-BOS would put them at a disadvantage to competition. And not being able to put B6 codeshare on AA long haul routes might reduce feed into those AA JFK flights. I would imagine AA can still sell their own connection items by utilizing AA codeshare on B6 feed into JFK. Feed into AA LH flights were one of the stated reasons for the NEA.
 
Abeam79
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:47 am

To be clear, this LOA excluded B6's transatalntic ambitions. that was carved out so it doesn't affect that. They were very specific how AA/B6 will still compete on Transatlantic. This pretty much means they can't put B6's code on certain AA flights within the range of a B6 aircraft and focus city-focus city.
Also, management said they will go ahead with the AA/B6 NEA agreement and just deal with grievances. This vote was more of a formality, the NEA will press on.
 
FARmd90
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:27 am

https://paxex.aero/jet-blue-basic-carry-on-change-fee/

Jetblue is changing their rules on their fair classes a little bit. Some notable changes;
Blue basic will now only be allowed a personal item unless paying for EMS seats
Blue basic will also be allowed to change or cancel for a fee. Other airlines don’t allow this on basic tickets
Overhead bin space is now a guarantee for all ticket classes Blue and higher. If no space is found for these people they will get a $25 voucher
 
maps4ltd
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:32 am

FARmd90 wrote:
https://paxex.aero/jet-blue-basic-carry-on-change-fee/

Jetblue is changing their rules on their fair classes a little bit. Some notable changes;
Blue basic will now only be allowed a personal item unless paying for EMS seats
Blue basic will also be allowed to change or cancel for a fee. Other airlines don’t allow this on basic tickets
Overhead bin space is now a guarantee for all ticket classes Blue and higher. If no space is found for these people they will get a $25 voucher

Interesting. They'll be the only US airline besides United to restrict carry-ons for BE. United currently requires BE pax to check in at the airport and have an agent ensure they're traveling with only a personal item; I wonder if B6 will do the same?

It's also worth noting that UA and B6 are the only US carriers to have $35 bag fees, something the other airlines have not done (though all of them jumped from $25 to $30 back in 2018).
Next flights:
Who knows? :/
 
MGASJO
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Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:46 am

Abeam79 wrote:
To be clear, this LOA excluded B6's transatalntic ambitions. that was carved out so it doesn't affect that. They were very specific how AA/B6 will still compete on Transatlantic. This pretty much means they can't put B6's code on certain AA flights within the range of a B6 aircraft and focus city-focus city.
Also, management said they will go ahead with the AA/B6 NEA agreement and just deal with grievances. This vote was more of a formality, the NEA will press on.

It was certainly not excluded. Only Focus city to Caribbean was protected to have at least 65% of ASMs on JetBlue metal. B6 was giving permission to every other international route (up to 100% on AA metal). They said London flying was still a go, but that was never reflected on the LOA. Same protection (65% ASMs on JetBlue metal) was put on routes between 2 focus cities.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:43 am

Does B6 have any facilities at EWR that would be common for a larger facility like JFK or FLL? It’s not too clear if it’s a focus city or just a large operation.
 
Abeam79
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:20 am

MGASJO wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
To be clear, this LOA excluded B6's transatalntic ambitions. that was carved out so it doesn't affect that. They were very specific how AA/B6 will still compete on Transatlantic. This pretty much means they can't put B6's code on certain AA flights within the range of a B6 aircraft and focus city-focus city.
Also, management said they will go ahead with the AA/B6 NEA agreement and just deal with grievances. This vote was more of a formality, the NEA will press on.

It was certainly not excluded. Only Focus city to Caribbean was protected to have at least 65% of ASMs on JetBlue metal. B6 was giving permission to every other international route (up to 100% on AA metal). They said London flying was still a go, but that was never reflected on the LOA. Same protection (65% ASMs on JetBlue metal) was put on routes between 2 focus cities.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you look at the routes on the NEA agreement transatlantic isn't part of it. B6 management said very clearly this won't include transatlantic. They will compete. In the end I wouldn't be surprised if AA puts their code on smaller markets on B6 transatlantic routes in the future, IE JFK/BOS-PDL/EDI etc since their scope would allow it
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:31 pm

Mikeer50 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Jetblue-American JV just voted down by the JetBlue Pilots



No, that’s not what just happened. Certain provisions within the deal were voted down. The deal is very much alive.



Sure… They just can’t put their B6 code on most AA flights from NY and BOS

Beyond that the deal is fine.

But that is the meat of the deal!
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:35 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Mikeer50 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Jetblue-American JV just voted down by the JetBlue Pilots



No, that’s not what just happened. Certain provisions within the deal were voted down. The deal is very much alive.



Sure… They just can’t put their B6 code on most AA flights from NY and BOS

Beyond that the deal is fine.

But that is the meat of the deal!


Isn't it just the JFK/BOS-international and focus city AA flights?
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:42 pm

tphuang wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Mikeer50 wrote:


No, that’s not what just happened. Certain provisions within the deal were voted down. The deal is very much alive.



Sure… They just can’t put their B6 code on most AA flights from NY and BOS

Beyond that the deal is fine.

But that is the meat of the deal!


Isn't it just the JFK/BOS-international and focus city AA flights?



That knocks out Boston LA Florida and the whole Caribbean.

In other words, The backbone of NY operations
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:23 pm

Well, JetBlue management needs to either try again to reach a new agreement with the pilots or make the preparation in case this partnership doesn't work out or become much smaller in scope.

To me, the biggest pluses to the NEA was interlining/access to AA network, AA codeshares which would allow them to access AA ff and the additional slots. Hopefully, the first 2 still get kept around in some form even if the partnership never materializes in full or falls apart over time.

They need to get a plan going for more growth in EWR or Boston or SoFla if additional slots from AA does not materialize or ends up being much less than what they they had hoped for.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:27 pm

tphuang wrote:
Well, JetBlue management needs to either try again to reach a new agreement with the pilots or make the preparation in case this partnership doesn't work out or become much smaller in scope.

To me, the biggest pluses to the NEA was interlining/access to AA network, AA codeshares which would allow them to access AA ff and the additional slots. Hopefully, the first 2 still get kept around in some form even if the partnership never materializes in full or falls apart over time.

They need to get a plan going for more growth in EWR or Boston or SoFla if additional slots from AA does not materialize or ends up being much less than what they they had hoped for.


Additional capacity at EWR is needed anyway because of the shifting demand. I wonder how much this will materialize in real pax numbers.
 
juan885
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:06 pm

Big announcement today of new routes and codes being applied to B6/AA flights!

New EWR service: ANU, BQN, CTG, MVY, ACK, PAP, POP, SEA, UVF, STT
New LGA service: CHS, DEN, MVY

http://blueir.investproductions.com/inv ... -160050512
 
FARmd90
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:10 pm

Jetblue has announced some new routes due to the new partnership with AA as well as some more details... http://blueir.investproductions.com/inv ... -160050512

New routes: Summer seasonal JFK-FCA/BOI starting July 1st and July 2nd.
Also more routes coming to EWR and LGA

EWR: ANU, BQN, CTG, MVY, ACK, PAP, POP, SEA, UVF, STT. All routes starting July 1st some summer seasonal

LGA: CHS, DEN, MVY starting July 1st

EYW service now goes year round also from JFK/BOS
Last edited by FARmd90 on Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
juan885
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:11 pm

AA also announces new routes out of BOS/NYC including JFK-BOG/CLO/MDE/PLS/SCL/UVF. I wonder if JFK-BOG will just go to AA metal instead of both flying it.
 
Wneast
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:58 pm

I wonder if BOI can get a seasonal flight to Jfk if maybe GEG can get one ? Is there anywhere else JetBlue could add from BOI later on ?
 
MaxTrimm
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:59 pm

I like the FCA add
 
Abeam79
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:14 pm

A friend also showed me one of the routes B6 said it wants to start out of jfk is clo. So I wonder if that will still go or just have AA do it? May be better if they both can fly it and codeshare to make a more robust schedule to compete but what do I know. Sounds duplicitous by b6 management to tell employees that clo was on their radar, bog seems to still be a go, so I guess they may just both do it? I’m confused
 
FARmd90
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:17 pm

Wneast wrote:
I wonder if BOI can get a seasonal flight to Jfk if maybe GEG can get one ? Is there anywhere else JetBlue could add from BOI later on ?


I could see them wanting to add LAX, MCO, and FLL and probably even BOS if all goes well.
Last edited by FARmd90 on Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Wneast
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:19 pm

FARmd90 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I wonder if BOI can get a seasonal flight to Jfk if maybe GEG can get one ? Is there anywhere else JetBlue could add from BOI later on ?


I could see them add LAX, MCO, and FLL and probably even BOS

Do you see JetBlue adding Geg ?
 
FARmd90
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:21 pm

Wneast wrote:
FARmd90 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I wonder if BOI can get a seasonal flight to Jfk if maybe GEG can get one ? Is there anywhere else JetBlue could add from BOI later on ?


I could see them add LAX, MCO, and FLL and probably even BOS

Do you see JetBlue adding Geg ?


I’d say the possibility is greater now with them adding all these mountain town destinations. Even if they did GEG just from LAX that would be a great start.
 
Wneast
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:23 pm

FARmd90 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
FARmd90 wrote:

I could see them add LAX, MCO, and FLL and probably even BOS

Do you see JetBlue adding Geg ?


I’d say the possibility is greater now with them adding all these mountain town destinations. Even if they did GEG just from LAX that would be a great start.

I’m for sure hopeful I mean they added Kalispell Montana which seems crazier to me
 
AC4500
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:25 pm

In comparison to other west coast markets, jetBlue seems to do pretty well in Seattle, so EWR-SEA should do well if they can ensure that it won't take away pax from their JFK-SEA flights. JFK-BOI is probably the most surprising add this announcement.
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:26 pm

juan885 wrote:
AA also announces new routes out of BOS/NYC including JFK-BOG/CLO/MDE/PLS/SCL/UVF. I wonder if JFK-BOG will just go to AA metal instead of both flying it.


A321NEO is a much better aircraft for this route than A319. I can't see AA's JFK-BOG service sticking around once business demand comes back.

Keep in mind that a lot of these announcements are made to try to capture revenue from any market that might have demand. We will have to wait a while to see which routes stick around.
 
hbernal1
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:28 pm

A few more things to note: LAX-BOS/JFK are wrapped up in the NEA it seems like, with B6 offering 8x daily LAX-JFK. JFK-ATL/DFW/ORD/RDU/SFO and BOS-LAX/ORD still "being optimized". Combined BOS-DCA capacity is 11x with B6 offering 4x BOS-DCA. A lot of DCA slots are about to free up for B6 now. EWR-SEA is a thing now although I'm a little surprised it's just seasonal. My impression is that B6 will not fly BOS-LAX as much as pre-covid, if we're going based on the new JFK-LAX schedule (probably goes up to only 4x daily with AA making up the rest of capacity).

It's good that LAX-JFK/BOS were kept inside the NEA, at least as far as B6's LAX aspirations are concerned. With the gates they'll get from LAWA (hopefully 6 or 7 more gates), the LAX schedule doesn't need to be so BOS/NYC centered (that'll probably only make up ~16 total B6 daily flights now compared to 22 without NEA) and capacity can be expanded to Florida Mint flights and possibly start up DC transcon flying again, with 2-3x daily LAX-IAD being possible as well (once the aircraft is there) as 2 or 3 more daily flights to South Florida (i.e. 10-11x South Florida instead of 8x, which is B6's current advertised schedule without any cuts). I'll have to rethink what B6's LAX network will end up being with these changes.
 
ddaly241
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:03 pm

How many flights will JetBlue now have from EWR or in the future from EWR?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:08 pm

hbernal1 wrote:
A few more things to note: LAX-BOS/JFK are wrapped up in the NEA it seems like, with B6 offering 8x daily LAX-JFK. JFK-ATL/DFW/ORD/RDU/SFO and BOS-LAX/ORD still "being optimized". Combined BOS-DCA capacity is 11x with B6 offering 4x BOS-DCA. A lot of DCA slots are about to free up for B6 now. EWR-SEA is a thing now although I'm a little surprised it's just seasonal. My impression is that B6 will not fly BOS-LAX as much as pre-covid, if we're going based on the new JFK-LAX schedule (probably goes up to only 4x daily with AA making up the rest of capacity).

It's good that LAX-JFK/BOS were kept inside the NEA, at least as far as B6's LAX aspirations are concerned. With the gates they'll get from LAWA (hopefully 6 or 7 more gates), the LAX schedule doesn't need to be so BOS/NYC centered (that'll probably only make up ~16 total B6 daily flights now compared to 22 without NEA) and capacity can be expanded to Florida Mint flights and possibly start up DC transcon flying again, with 2-3x daily LAX-IAD being possible as well (once the aircraft is there) as 2 or 3 more daily flights to South Florida (i.e. 10-11x South Florida instead of 8x, which is B6's current advertised schedule without any cuts). I'll have to rethink what B6's LAX network will end up being with these changes.


Don't read too much into frequencies, these are only frequencies for April. If you read below it, it essentially says more frequencies will be added as demand comes back.

One obvious example is BOS-DCA, the combined BOS-DCA frequencies will be much larger than 11x post-COVID
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:13 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
hbernal1 wrote:
A few more things to note: LAX-BOS/JFK are wrapped up in the NEA it seems like, with B6 offering 8x daily LAX-JFK. JFK-ATL/DFW/ORD/RDU/SFO and BOS-LAX/ORD still "being optimized". Combined BOS-DCA capacity is 11x with B6 offering 4x BOS-DCA. A lot of DCA slots are about to free up for B6 now. EWR-SEA is a thing now although I'm a little surprised it's just seasonal. My impression is that B6 will not fly BOS-LAX as much as pre-covid, if we're going based on the new JFK-LAX schedule (probably goes up to only 4x daily with AA making up the rest of capacity).

It's good that LAX-JFK/BOS were kept inside the NEA, at least as far as B6's LAX aspirations are concerned. With the gates they'll get from LAWA (hopefully 6 or 7 more gates), the LAX schedule doesn't need to be so BOS/NYC centered (that'll probably only make up ~16 total B6 daily flights now compared to 22 without NEA) and capacity can be expanded to Florida Mint flights and possibly start up DC transcon flying again, with 2-3x daily LAX-IAD being possible as well (once the aircraft is there) as 2 or 3 more daily flights to South Florida (i.e. 10-11x South Florida instead of 8x, which is B6's current advertised schedule without any cuts). I'll have to rethink what B6's LAX network will end up being with these changes.


Don't read too much into frequencies, these are only frequencies for April. If you read below it, it essentially says more frequencies will be added as demand comes back.

One obvious example is BOS-DCA, the combined BOS-DCA frequencies will be much larger than 11x post-COVID


Exactly! B6 isnt going down to 8 daily on LAX. These are covid frequencies
 
hbernal1
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:17 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
hbernal1 wrote:
A few more things to note: LAX-BOS/JFK are wrapped up in the NEA it seems like, with B6 offering 8x daily LAX-JFK. JFK-ATL/DFW/ORD/RDU/SFO and BOS-LAX/ORD still "being optimized". Combined BOS-DCA capacity is 11x with B6 offering 4x BOS-DCA. A lot of DCA slots are about to free up for B6 now. EWR-SEA is a thing now although I'm a little surprised it's just seasonal. My impression is that B6 will not fly BOS-LAX as much as pre-covid, if we're going based on the new JFK-LAX schedule (probably goes up to only 4x daily with AA making up the rest of capacity).

It's good that LAX-JFK/BOS were kept inside the NEA, at least as far as B6's LAX aspirations are concerned. With the gates they'll get from LAWA (hopefully 6 or 7 more gates), the LAX schedule doesn't need to be so BOS/NYC centered (that'll probably only make up ~16 total B6 daily flights now compared to 22 without NEA) and capacity can be expanded to Florida Mint flights and possibly start up DC transcon flying again, with 2-3x daily LAX-IAD being possible as well (once the aircraft is there) as 2 or 3 more daily flights to South Florida (i.e. 10-11x South Florida instead of 8x, which is B6's current advertised schedule without any cuts). I'll have to rethink what B6's LAX network will end up being with these changes.


Don't read too much into frequencies, these are only frequencies for April. If you read below it, it essentially says more frequencies will be added as demand comes back.

One obvious example is BOS-DCA, the combined BOS-DCA frequencies will be much larger than 11x post-COVID

Just noted that, thanks for the clarification. That said, I'm under the impression that it'll take some time for these frequencies to return to pre-covid levels, so even then, I still think there's opportunity to send planes elsewhere while BOS/JFK demand is still recovering from LAX.
 
timberwolf24
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:27 pm

Could we see B6 add MDW from BOS & JFK with this partnership? I could see 3 to 4 flights to BOS and 2 or 3 flights to JFK.
Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
 
NYCSKYGUY
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:43 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
hbernal1 wrote:
A few more things to note: LAX-BOS/JFK are wrapped up in the NEA it seems like, with B6 offering 8x daily LAX-JFK. JFK-ATL/DFW/ORD/RDU/SFO and BOS-LAX/ORD still "being optimized". Combined BOS-DCA capacity is 11x with B6 offering 4x BOS-DCA. A lot of DCA slots are about to free up for B6 now. EWR-SEA is a thing now although I'm a little surprised it's just seasonal. My impression is that B6 will not fly BOS-LAX as much as pre-covid, if we're going based on the new JFK-LAX schedule (probably goes up to only 4x daily with AA making up the rest of capacity).

It's good that LAX-JFK/BOS were kept inside the NEA, at least as far as B6's LAX aspirations are concerned. With the gates they'll get from LAWA (hopefully 6 or 7 more gates), the LAX schedule doesn't need to be so BOS/NYC centered (that'll probably only make up ~16 total B6 daily flights now compared to 22 without NEA) and capacity can be expanded to Florida Mint flights and possibly start up DC transcon flying again, with 2-3x daily LAX-IAD being possible as well (once the aircraft is there) as 2 or 3 more daily flights to South Florida (i.e. 10-11x South Florida instead of 8x, which is B6's current advertised schedule without any cuts). I'll have to rethink what B6's LAX network will end up being with these changes.


Don't read too much into frequencies, these are only frequencies for April. If you read below it, it essentially says more frequencies will be added as demand comes back.

One obvious example is BOS-DCA, the combined BOS-DCA frequencies will be much larger than 11x post-COVID


Exactly! B6 isnt going down to 8 daily on LAX. These are covid frequencies


COVID frequencies are the new normal. You won’t see early 2020 frequencies for... who knows when. Years. I think airline employees need to come to the realization that they’re on borrowed time thanks to government funding. Should the airline be where the market really is you’d be in a whole different frame of mind. Like basic survival.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:11 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
hbernal1 wrote:
A few more things to note: LAX-BOS/JFK are wrapped up in the NEA it seems like, with B6 offering 8x daily LAX-JFK. JFK-ATL/DFW/ORD/RDU/SFO and BOS-LAX/ORD still "being optimized". Combined BOS-DCA capacity is 11x with B6 offering 4x BOS-DCA. A lot of DCA slots are about to free up for B6 now. EWR-SEA is a thing now although I'm a little surprised it's just seasonal. My impression is that B6 will not fly BOS-LAX as much as pre-covid, if we're going based on the new JFK-LAX schedule (probably goes up to only 4x daily with AA making up the rest of capacity).

It's good that LAX-JFK/BOS were kept inside the NEA, at least as far as B6's LAX aspirations are concerned. With the gates they'll get from LAWA (hopefully 6 or 7 more gates), the LAX schedule doesn't need to be so BOS/NYC centered (that'll probably only make up ~16 total B6 daily flights now compared to 22 without NEA) and capacity can be expanded to Florida Mint flights and possibly start up DC transcon flying again, with 2-3x daily LAX-IAD being possible as well (once the aircraft is there) as 2 or 3 more daily flights to South Florida (i.e. 10-11x South Florida instead of 8x, which is B6's current advertised schedule without any cuts). I'll have to rethink what B6's LAX network will end up being with these changes.


Don't read too much into frequencies, these are only frequencies for April. If you read below it, it essentially says more frequencies will be added as demand comes back.

One obvious example is BOS-DCA, the combined BOS-DCA frequencies will be much larger than 11x post-COVID


Exactly! B6 isnt going down to 8 daily on LAX. These are covid frequencies

The split code share operation takes away the battle between AA/_B6 which opens up LAX gate usage for JetBlue to add additional markets from LAX.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
DeltaRules
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:14 pm

juan885 wrote:
AA also announces new routes out of BOS/NYC including JFK-BOG/CLO/MDE/PLS/SCL/UVF. I wonder if JFK-BOG will just go to AA metal instead of both flying it.


They added BOS-CMH as well, which makes me wonder if that might hinder the chances of B6 coming to places like CMH and IND.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
hbernal1
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:51 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:28 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
juan885 wrote:
AA also announces new routes out of BOS/NYC including JFK-BOG/CLO/MDE/PLS/SCL/UVF. I wonder if JFK-BOG will just go to AA metal instead of both flying it.


They added BOS-CMH as well, which makes me wonder if that might hinder the chances of B6 coming to places like CMH and IND.

My guess would be not much honestly. B6 still has an incentive to add these markets as feed for TATL flights and to build out FLL/LAX networks.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6151
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:13 pm

ddaly241 wrote:
How many flights will JetBlue now have from EWR or in the future from EWR?


They are probably scheduled in for about 80 now, but I think they are probably going to peak at more like 50 to 60 per/day range over summer time in terms of what they will actually fly. Their stated intentions in their internal emails was 70 to 80. I find that number quite low based on what we've seen.

I'm waiting to see if they will add stuff like EWR-ORD/DEN/BNA. Those would push them to the 100 flight a day range.
 
Cboyle
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:32 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:41 pm

Do you think they will add BOS-FCA after today?
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:22 pm

Wneast wrote:
FARmd90 wrote:
Wneast wrote:
Do you see JetBlue adding Geg ?


I’d say the possibility is greater now with them adding all these mountain town destinations. Even if they did GEG just from LAX that would be a great start.

I’m for sure hopeful I mean they added Kalispell Montana which seems crazier to me


It isn’t crazy. FCA is a big tourist destination - gateway to Glacier National Park and people can’t travel abroad this year. Boise is surprising. However, Boise’s population and wealth has grown significantly in the last few years. More likely growth related as there really isn’t many “famous” tourist stops in Southwest Idaho.
 
Wneast
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:25 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
Wneast wrote:
FARmd90 wrote:

I’d say the possibility is greater now with them adding all these mountain town destinations. Even if they did GEG just from LAX that would be a great start.

I’m for sure hopeful I mean they added Kalispell Montana which seems crazier to me


It isn’t crazy. FCA is a big tourist destination - gateway to Glacier National Park and people can’t travel abroad this year. Boise is surprising. However, Boise’s population and wealth has grown significantly in the last few years. More likely growth related as there really isn’t many “famous” tourist stops in Southwest Idaho.
I believe that Geg could get one though like Boise before the wealth is growing hear we are close to cda Idaho where thousands of Californians and people from Seattle and Portland are moving here
 
Wneast
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:31 pm

Wneast wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
Wneast wrote:
I’m for sure hopeful I mean they added Kalispell Montana which seems crazier to me


It isn’t crazy. FCA is a big tourist destination - gateway to Glacier National Park and people can’t travel abroad this year. Boise is surprising. However, Boise’s population and wealth has grown significantly in the last few years. More likely growth related as there really isn’t many “famous” tourist stops in Southwest Idaho.
I believe that Geg could get one though like Boise before the wealth is growing hear we are close to cda Idaho where thousands of Californians and people from Seattle and Portland are moving here
# flights to the east coast from geg
 
tphuang
Posts: 6151
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:02 am

taking a look at PDEW for both markets based on 2019Q3 data
NYC-BOI. PDEW of 91 on average fare of $342. Now with lack of leisure options abroad + non-stop service + low fares, that PDEW might climb up to over 150 on peak days this summer. But filling 70% of A320 even with connection from east coast seems pretty hard. we will see.

NYC-FCA. PDEW of 52 with $385 avrage fare. Again, lack of leisure options + desire to go to socially distanced places + non-stop services + lower fares should increase PDEW quite a bit this summer. But since AA is also operating weekly or a couple of times aweek from LGA-FCA, it will be interesting to see if there is enough demand here to support multiple weekly flights. I'm not sure if this is sustainable long term.

Maybe there is hope for JFK-TUS next winter.
 
Wneast
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:11 am

tphuang wrote:
taking a look at PDEW for both markets based on 2019Q3 data
NYC-BOI. PDEW of 91 on average fare of $342. Now with lack of leisure options abroad + non-stop service + low fares, that PDEW might climb up to over 150 on peak days this summer. But filling 70% of A320 even with connection from east coast seems pretty hard. we will see.

NYC-FCA. PDEW of 52 with $385 avrage fare. Again, lack of leisure options + desire to go to socially distanced places + non-stop services + lower fares should increase PDEW quite a bit this summer. But since AA is also operating weekly or a couple of times aweek from LGA-FCA, it will be interesting to see if there is enough demand here to support multiple weekly flights. I'm not sure if this is sustainable long term.

Maybe there is hope for JFK-TUS next winter.

I’m thinking the market could grow to Boise to New York to make it daily in a year or two because people with lots of wealth are moving to Boise area
 
trueblew
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:15 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
juan885 wrote:
AA also announces new routes out of BOS/NYC including JFK-BOG/CLO/MDE/PLS/SCL/UVF. I wonder if JFK-BOG will just go to AA metal instead of both flying it.


They added BOS-CMH as well, which makes me wonder if that might hinder the chances of B6 coming to places like CMH and IND.


With Republic crew bases at CMH and IND I feel like that B6 service is less than likely.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6151
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:26 pm

trueblew wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
juan885 wrote:
AA also announces new routes out of BOS/NYC including JFK-BOG/CLO/MDE/PLS/SCL/UVF. I wonder if JFK-BOG will just go to AA metal instead of both flying it.


They added BOS-CMH as well, which makes me wonder if that might hinder the chances of B6 coming to places like CMH and IND.


With Republic crew bases at CMH and IND I feel like that B6 service is less than likely.


Remember that JetBlue's strategy is not BOS centered right now. IND/CMH are still places they need to fly from NYC and FLL. At this point, DL has yet to bring back BOS-CMH/IND, which means demand is still quite weak here from Northeast. So there is no immediate need for them to be in these market. So the places they are adding right now are all leisure spot, which may or may not stick around 2 years from now.

At some point, we will see both leisure and business traffic come back to a much higher level. i'd be very surprised if IND doesn't get announced this year.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6151
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:30 pm

As JetBlue goes to 330 day schedule, they made some rather ambitious expansion of services out of BOS. I'm sure they won't end up operating anything close to this. So I wonder if this is just an optimistic scheduling hoping for additional customers from AA codeshares or getting used to advertise a larger schedule than they intend to operate. Long term, maybe they will also move to AA's practice of firming up schedules 3 months out. Having AA interline will allow them to re-accommodate passengers more easily.

Here is a rundown.
ATL back to 4x and 5x in August
BNA 3x on 4 days and 2x on other 3
BUF back to 4x for Sep/Oct
CHS back to 3x for Sep/Oct
CLT up to 6x for Sep/Oct
DEN up to 3x for a month longer to Oct
DFW up to 4x for Sep/Oct
FLL up to 6x in Sep/Oct and 8x by Dec
JAX back to 3x for Sep/Oct
LAS up to 6x for Sep/Oct
MCO up to 8x in Oct to Dec
PDX 2x on some days in Oct, then service in holiday weeks of Nov/Dec
PIT back to 6x for Sep/Oct
RDU 6x extended to Oct/Nov
SAN 4x all the way through
SDQ 2x in Oct/Nov
SFO 7x in Oct to Dec
TPA added another flight from Sep to Dec

more seasonal services to CUN/MVY/PAP

Anyways, a lot of frequency adds at a time when demand is down quite a bit.
 
AC4500
Posts: 476
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:33 pm

tphuang wrote:
As JetBlue goes to 330 day schedule, they made some rather ambitious expansion of services out of BOS. I'm sure they won't end up operating anything close to this. So I wonder if this is just an optimistic scheduling hoping for additional customers from AA codeshares or getting used to advertise a larger schedule than they intend to operate. Long term, maybe they will also move to AA's practice of firming up schedules 3 months out. Having AA interline will allow them to re-accommodate passengers more easily.

Here is a rundown.
ATL back to 4x and 5x in August
BNA 3x on 4 days and 2x on other 3
BUF back to 4x for Sep/Oct
CHS back to 3x for Sep/Oct
CLT up to 6x for Sep/Oct
DEN up to 3x for a month longer to Oct
DFW up to 4x for Sep/Oct
FLL up to 6x in Sep/Oct and 8x by Dec
JAX back to 3x for Sep/Oct
LAS up to 6x for Sep/Oct
MCO up to 8x in Oct to Dec
PDX 2x on some days in Oct, then service in holiday weeks of Nov/Dec
PIT back to 6x for Sep/Oct
RDU 6x extended to Oct/Nov
SAN 4x all the way through
SDQ 2x in Oct/Nov
SFO 7x in Oct to Dec
TPA added another flight from Sep to Dec

more seasonal services to CUN/MVY/PAP

Anyways, a lot of frequency adds at a time when demand is down quite a bit.

Thanks for the rundown on this. And yes, their recently updated BOS schedule is very ambitious. I see two separate scenarios at play here, with the latter being more likely IMO.
1). B6 is anticipating a stronger than anticipated recovery for leisure travel to/from the BOS area in the summer, with the stronger demand continuing after the summer months through December. People are eager to travel again, and if vaccine production/distribution starts to ramp up, more people will be vaccinated and more people will therefore be comfortable traveling again. Predicting travel demand is very challenging in this current environment, so establishing a strong schedule in the event that a sharp recovery for travel demand occurs is necessary, even if the chances of such a sharp recovery occurring are very slim.
2). B6 wants to extend their schedule as far out as possible in order to take advantage of people booking their reservations well in advance (and gain the extra revenue that they would not have otherwise gotten with a shorter schedule window). With a longer/extended schedule, B6 can also delay refunding reservations by rebooking their travelers within the advanced schedule. Due to the partnership with AA, adopting the same 330 day schedule strategy as AA (as well as the other legacy carriers) is necessary.
 
hbernal1
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:51 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:09 pm

It looks like LAX will open MSC in May from what was said in the last LAWA board meeting. Still unclear whether B6 will be asked to move out.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1741
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:20 pm

I think it’s really interesting that EWR has now passed MCO both in terms of # of departures and destinations. Is MCO growth planned when the new terminal opens?

On another note, is it likely we see another route announcement within the next month or two? The last one was centered completely around NYC, contrary to their last ones.
 
Cboyle
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:32 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:41 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I think it’s really interesting that EWR has now passed MCO both in terms of # of departures and destinations. Is MCO growth planned when the new terminal opens?

On another note, is it likely we see another route announcement within the next month or two? The last one was centered completely around NYC, contrary to their last ones.

I’d say it appears likely they have a route announcement in March or April... since MHT is in contact with a few guys, very likely including B6, I’d say they arrive here, so I’d say they finally get announced in the next expansion. I’d also say ECP gets announced as well as SDF.

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