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tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:50 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I think it’s really interesting that EWR has now passed MCO both in terms of # of departures and destinations. Is MCO growth planned when the new terminal opens?

On another note, is it likely we see another route announcement within the next month or two? The last one was centered completely around NYC, contrary to their last ones.


MCO is way down on the list of places to grow in.

I think what happened last week is the first salvo, there will be more adds in first half of this year. This was circulated internally regarding the NEA.

"Look for an initial phase of codeshare and route announcements in the next few weeks with more over the coming months." More in NYC are coming.

A321NEO deliveries this week.
https://aibfamily.flights/A320/9398 2060J delivered yesterday
https://aibfamily.flights/A320/9245 2059J delivered today
https://aibfamily.flights/A320/10101 2015J delivered today
The first 2 were all-core configs that were built last year and only got delivered this year. The 3rd one is the first A321NEO mint.

The first LR had its 4th test flight a week ago. It should be ready to be delivered soon.
https://aibfamily.flights/A320/10303

The second A321NEO mint? just had its first test flight
https://aibfamily.flights/A320/10120

Quite a few deliveries this first quarter that are planned. I think they will be ready to unveil the y cabin on LR/NEO mint soon.

It looks like LAX will open MSC in May from what was said in the last LAWA board meeting. Still unclear whether B6 will be asked to move out.

I would be very surprised if this happens. But I do expect all the ULCCs from T-5 and boutique/mokulele/VivaAerobus to move there.

saw someone post this on another forum
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/S ... 981771.php
At SFO, the T-3 renovation is on hold, but the T-1 renovation are proceeding as planned. Here are the interesting parts.
"The third phase of Harvey Milk Terminal 1 will add seven more gates and a connecting walkway to the International Terminal sparing passengers the need to exit and re-enter security expected to be completed by Memorial Day and new connecting walkways between Terminals 2 and 3 will open in October, if all goes as planned."
"“If you’re American, Southwest, Jetblue, you have more to be excited about,” said Yakel, “because there’s more gates coming on at Terminal 1" (yakel is a SFO spokesman)

There will be 25 gates in T-1 after this and basically just AA/WN/B6. SFO has never been less gate constrained for B6. If they didn't just get promised more gates at LAX, this would be the chance of a life time in west coast for JetBlue. We will see. SFO is clearly asking for airlines to add request for these new gates.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6420
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:05 pm

I completely missed this one http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=73343
16J + 144Y seats on A321NEO mint. There will be 7 rows of EMS, so 42 Y+ and 102 Y.

In the A321CEO mint config, there are 41 Y+ and 102 Y. So basically, they netted 1 additional Y+ seat + all aisle access on the J cabin.

I think this will be a winner domestically.
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:38 am

Cboyle wrote:
I’d say it appears likely they have a route announcement in March or April... since MHT is in contact with a few guys, very likely including B6, I’d say they arrive here, so I’d say they finally get announced in the next expansion. I’d also say ECP gets announced as well as SDF.


Wow...very optimistic on MHT. It's 'my' airport, too, but I can't see JetBlue here. As someone astutely put it, MHT is in the Bermuda Triangle and suffers for it. Too close to Boston and B6 wouldn't want to cannibalize their operation there. I say this knowing full well that they're in PVD, but PVD is a bigger market and can stand on its own more that MHT can. I would like nothing more than to see your vision come true. But this has been a vision for over a decade, and the likelihood of it happening fades with each passing year.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
Cboyle
Posts: 159
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:11 am

ChrisNH38 wrote:
Cboyle wrote:
I’d say it appears likely they have a route announcement in March or April... since MHT is in contact with a few guys, very likely including B6, I’d say they arrive here, so I’d say they finally get announced in the next expansion. I’d also say ECP gets announced as well as SDF.


Wow...very optimistic on MHT. It's 'my' airport, too, but I can't see JetBlue here. As someone astutely put it, MHT is in the Bermuda Triangle and suffers for it. Too close to Boston and B6 wouldn't want to cannibalize their operation there. I say this knowing full well that they're in PVD, but PVD is a bigger market and can stand on its own more that MHT can. I would like nothing more than to see your vision come true. But this has been a vision for over a decade, and the likelihood of it happening fades with each passing year.

ChrisNH,
if you see my comment on the rest of New England forum... you’ll be more of an optimist as well! ;)
 
Abeam79
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:13 am

In regards to B6 about to start transatlantic now slated for Aug launch. I know B6 said publicly that it will still compete with AA on transatlantic and that’s not part of the nea. B6 did say they are planning to serve most of north/central/southern western EU when they have all the their LR/XLR’s online. I’m wondering since AA will focus more on ultra long haul for their widebody but also extend the NEA for western EU on B6 codeshares when they expand to more markets. Being it will give more options to AA FF customers and it would be tough for AA to compete on a cost basis directly with B6, might as well streamline their FF in B6 codeshare?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1899
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:38 am

Abeam79 wrote:
In regards to B6 about to start transatlantic now slated for Aug launch. I know B6 said publicly that it will still compete with AA on transatlantic and that’s not part of the nea. B6 did say they are planning to serve most of north/central/southern western EU when they have all the their LR/XLR’s online. I’m wondering since AA will focus more on ultra long haul for their widebody but also extend the NEA for western EU on B6 codeshares when they expand to more markets. Being it will give more options to AA FF customers and it would be tough for AA to compete on a cost basis directly with B6, might as well streamline their FF in B6 codeshare?


Are they considering EWR?
 
Abeam79
Posts: 390
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:07 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
In regards to B6 about to start transatlantic now slated for Aug launch. I know B6 said publicly that it will still compete with AA on transatlantic and that’s not part of the nea. B6 did say they are planning to serve most of north/central/southern western EU when they have all the their LR/XLR’s online. I’m wondering since AA will focus more on ultra long haul for their widebody but also extend the NEA for western EU on B6 codeshares when they expand to more markets. Being it will give more options to AA FF customers and it would be tough for AA to compete on a cost basis directly with B6, might as well streamline their FF in B6 codeshare?


Are they considering EWR?

I would surmise B6 will add some sort of ewr-EU service. I was asking since phl is already well served to EU on AA, but nyc would be too much for AA to fund the competition on their own
 
PSA727
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:30 am

Abeam79 wrote:
In regards to B6 about to start transatlantic now slated for Aug launch. I know B6 said publicly that it will still compete with AA on transatlantic and that’s not part of the nea. B6 did say they are planning to serve most of north/central/southern western EU when they have all the their LR/XLR’s online. I’m wondering since AA will focus more on ultra long haul for their widebody but also extend the NEA for western EU on B6 codeshares when they expand to more markets. Being it will give more options to AA FF customers and it would be tough for AA to compete on a cost basis directly with B6, might as well streamline their FF in B6 codeshare?


Let's be realistic. B6 isn't about to establish a TATL empire off the A321. They have on order, what, a dozen or so 321LRs (which will get them to the UK/Irelnad), and another dozen or so 321XLRs (which can cover the western half of Europe)? And this TATL flying was announced to be from both JFK and BOS. Plus, aren't they going to be flying some of the JFK-LAX flights with the 24-Mint 321LRs? This partnership with AA actually allows B6 to place their TATL focus out of BOS, where it will better serve both airlines. As B6 will be competing in NYC with not just DL's large TATL footrprint out of JFK (as well as AA), and UA's out of EWR; but also with their JV/ATI partners. B6 won't have that at BOS. Is there any carrier besides DL which flies to more than two European cities from BOS? Also, B6 could possibly fly FCO-BOS with the 321XLR. I'm not sure it could do FCO-JFK.

I think AA would like to offer more TATL flights out of BOS. But doing so would be too redundant with JFK and PHL's TATL service. This helps solve that issue. Moreover, B6 will not be given any slots at LHR. They will have to pay for them. And they are rather costly. So, they will be relegated to LGW (and STN if that really is what they plan on doing). But maybe B6 can work that "niche" to their advantage. As for me, I personally prefer LGW over LHR for flying specifically to London. It's less hectic. However, I prefer LHR for connections, as the lounges there are much better. But that won't be an issue in the B6 equation. In fact, if they fly to Paris, they should do so out of ORY instead of CDG.

In my opinion, B6's TATL service will be similar to what US Airways had 20 years ago. Flights to 6 or 7 destinations from a couple of their hubs.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
Blerg
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:32 am

I don't think they can cover western Europe with the A321, maybe western parts of western Europe. From what I read online, a fully loaded A321 can't reach places like Germany, Switzerland or Spain. So best they can do with it is cover the UK and Ireland and places like Amsterdam, Paris and Brussels.
 
glideslope900
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:48 pm

With people fleeing the northeast to FL in droves, it seems appropriate they would look at growing MCO/FLL.
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:55 pm

I think at this point, no one really knows what their TATL operation will eventually look like. JetBlue has a plan, but it will really depend on how well these initial flights go and how the demand comes back. They are taking 6 LRs in 2021 and 2022, which should allow them to do 5 or 6 R/T from NYC/Boston to London.

13 LRs + 13 XLRs will be quite a bit of capacity already. That will allow them to schedule maybe 25 flights a day. That could be to Europe or to South America or even to the Pacifics. If things go well, I'm sure they could add to that and A321 range should continue to increase over time.

I also don't see why they would concede NYC TATL flying to AA? Now that they are getting additional capacity at EWR and slots at JFK/LGA, NYC will be larger than BOS. There is no reason Boston has to be primary TATL hub.

I don't see why they would have an issue competing against DL's JFK hub or AA's JFK operation or UA's EWR operation. They will have much fewer seats to fill. They will have just as much feed as everyone else. A321LR/XLR have much lower cost than competition. But we will see. They will need to balance out domestic and international growth over the next few years.

As I just mentioned above, they have domestic growth at NYC, building up SoFla, bringing back Boston, building up LAX and possibly building up SFO/RDU. There are a lot of things they have to balance out at the moment.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:53 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
In regards to B6 about to start transatlantic now slated for Aug launch. I know B6 said publicly that it will still compete with AA on transatlantic and that’s not part of the nea. B6 did say they are planning to serve most of north/central/southern western EU when they have all the their LR/XLR’s online. I’m wondering since AA will focus more on ultra long haul for their widebody but also extend the NEA for western EU on B6 codeshares when they expand to more markets. Being it will give more options to AA FF customers and it would be tough for AA to compete on a cost basis directly with B6, might as well streamline their FF in B6 codeshare?


Are they considering EWR?


No.

JFK and BOS.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1899
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:57 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
In regards to B6 about to start transatlantic now slated for Aug launch. I know B6 said publicly that it will still compete with AA on transatlantic and that’s not part of the nea. B6 did say they are planning to serve most of north/central/southern western EU when they have all the their LR/XLR’s online. I’m wondering since AA will focus more on ultra long haul for their widebody but also extend the NEA for western EU on B6 codeshares when they expand to more markets. Being it will give more options to AA FF customers and it would be tough for AA to compete on a cost basis directly with B6, might as well streamline their FF in B6 codeshare?


Are they considering EWR?


No.

JFK and BOS.


Interesting considering EWR has nearly 2x the demand as BOS.

Hopefully the April schedule gets released tonight, I would love for the buildup of EWR to finally come to fruition with not as many cuts.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:11 pm

tphuang wrote:
I think at this point, no one really knows what their TATL operation will eventually look like. JetBlue has a plan, but it will really depend on how well these initial flights go and how the demand comes back. They are taking 6 LRs in 2021 and 2022, which should allow them to do 5 or 6 R/T from NYC/Boston to London.

13 LRs + 13 XLRs will be quite a bit of capacity already. That will allow them to schedule maybe 25 flights a day. That could be to Europe or to South America or even to the Pacifics. If things go well, I'm sure they could add to that and A321 range should continue to increase over time.

I also don't see why they would concede NYC TATL flying to AA? Now that they are getting additional capacity at EWR and slots at JFK/LGA, NYC will be larger than BOS. There is no reason Boston has to be primary TATL hub.

I don't see why they would have an issue competing against DL's JFK hub or AA's JFK operation or UA's EWR operation. They will have much fewer seats to fill. They will have just as much feed as everyone else. A321LR/XLR have much lower cost than competition. But we will see. They will need to balance out domestic and international growth over the next few years.

As I just mentioned above, they have domestic growth at NYC, building up SoFla, bringing back Boston, building up LAX and possibly building up SFO/RDU. There are a lot of things they have to balance out at the moment.



No one is conceding anything.

A bunch of dudes posting conjecture.

Bid opens March 1 for international pilot bases at JFK and BOS.

End of story.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:19 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I think at this point, no one really knows what their TATL operation will eventually look like. JetBlue has a plan, but it will really depend on how well these initial flights go and how the demand comes back. They are taking 6 LRs in 2021 and 2022, which should allow them to do 5 or 6 R/T from NYC/Boston to London.

13 LRs + 13 XLRs will be quite a bit of capacity already. That will allow them to schedule maybe 25 flights a day. That could be to Europe or to South America or even to the Pacifics. If things go well, I'm sure they could add to that and A321 range should continue to increase over time.

I also don't see why they would concede NYC TATL flying to AA? Now that they are getting additional capacity at EWR and slots at JFK/LGA, NYC will be larger than BOS. There is no reason Boston has to be primary TATL hub.

I don't see why they would have an issue competing against DL's JFK hub or AA's JFK operation or UA's EWR operation. They will have much fewer seats to fill. They will have just as much feed as everyone else. A321LR/XLR have much lower cost than competition. But we will see. They will need to balance out domestic and international growth over the next few years.

As I just mentioned above, they have domestic growth at NYC, building up SoFla, bringing back Boston, building up LAX and possibly building up SFO/RDU. There are a lot of things they have to balance out at the moment.



No one is conceding anything.

A bunch of dudes posting conjecture.

Bid opens March 1 for international pilot bases at JFK and BOS.

End of story.


EWR isn’t a domestic base yet so why would they open an international one? They could still fly EWR TATL ops without a base at EWR.
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:34 pm

How far could B6 get into Brazil with the LR or XLR from, say, MCO and/of FLL?
PNW-based private pilot and engineer. #fatpnw
 
B752OS
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:13 pm

ArcticSEA wrote:
How far could B6 get into Brazil with the LR or XLR from, say, MCO and/of FLL?


Looks like as long as the XLR has a range of 4,000 nm, it will be able to reach anywhere in Brazil from FLL. The advertised range by Airbus will more than handle this distance.
 
Abeam79
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:40 pm

PSA727 wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
In regards to B6 about to start transatlantic now slated for Aug launch. I know B6 said publicly that it will still compete with AA on transatlantic and that’s not part of the nea. B6 did say they are planning to serve most of north/central/southern western EU when they have all the their LR/XLR’s online. I’m wondering since AA will focus more on ultra long haul for their widebody but also extend the NEA for western EU on B6 codeshares when they expand to more markets. Being it will give more options to AA FF customers and it would be tough for AA to compete on a cost basis directly with B6, might as well streamline their FF in B6 codeshare?


Let's be realistic. B6 isn't about to establish a TATL empire off the A321. They have on order, what, a dozen or so 321LRs (which will get them to the UK/Irelnad), and another dozen or so 321XLRs (which can cover the western half of Europe)? And this TATL flying was announced to be from both JFK and BOS. Plus, aren't they going to be flying some of the JFK-LAX flights with the 24-Mint 321LRs? This partnership with AA actually allows B6 to place their TATL focus out of BOS, where it will better serve both airlines. As B6 will be competing in NYC with not just DL's large TATL footrprint out of JFK (as well as AA), and UA's out of EWR; but also with their JV/ATI partners. B6 won't have that at BOS. Is there any carrier besides DL which flies to more than two European cities from BOS? Also, B6 could possibly fly FCO-BOS with the 321XLR. I'm not sure it could do FCO-JFK.

I think AA would like to offer more TATL flights out of BOS. But doing so would be too redundant with JFK and PHL's TATL service. This helps solve that issue. Moreover, B6 will not be given any slots at LHR. They will have to pay for them. And they are rather costly. So, they will be relegated to LGW (and STN if that really is what they plan on doing). But maybe B6 can work that "niche" to their advantage. As for me, I personally prefer LGW over LHR for flying specifically to London. It's less hectic. However, I prefer LHR for connections, as the lounges there are much better. But that won't be an issue in the B6 equation. In fact, if they fly to Paris, they should do so out of ORY instead of CDG.

In my opinion, B6's TATL service will be similar to what US Airways had 20 years ago. Flights to 6 or 7 destinations from a couple of their hubs.


Lets get back to earth here. NO one said a "TATL empire" and its not "A dozen or so" its a total of 26 Long haul A321 LR/XLR, thats more than 2 dozen sub fleet. That can do the key business and leisure routes from JFK/BOS and several key Latam routes from FLL. Continental had quite a nice network to EU out of EWR with just the 757 fleet alone. and the A321LR has proven to be lower cost and equivalent economics of a widebody. SO yes lets be realistic, I just don't see AA really putting up much of a fight in NYC with secondary markets in western EU when they have PHL. .
Yes right now its JFK/BOS and they still have many more options with AIrbus to convert to more LR/XLR's if the TATL fllights are proven to work strongly in their benefit. as they did with transcon. Time will tell, and yes this is all conjecture.
I was basing all this with this article from 2019 given when demands comes back which will mostly be the case by the time the deliveries come in
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/20/jetblue ... rjets.html
 
Abeam79
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:41 pm

B752OS wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
How far could B6 get into Brazil with the LR or XLR from, say, MCO and/of FLL?


Looks like as long as the XLR has a range of 4,000 nm, it will be able to reach anywhere in Brazil from FLL. The advertised range by Airbus will more than handle this distance.

4000nm for LR, XLR is up to 4700nm....from fll can reach as far as EZE/SCL
 
FARmd90
Posts: 470
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:55 pm

Abeam79 wrote:
B752OS wrote:
ArcticSEA wrote:
How far could B6 get into Brazil with the LR or XLR from, say, MCO and/of FLL?


Looks like as long as the XLR has a range of 4,000 nm, it will be able to reach anywhere in Brazil from FLL. The advertised range by Airbus will more than handle this distance.

4000nm for LR, XLR is up to 4700nm....from fll can reach as far as EZE/SCL


This might be a bit of a stretch. But how much premium demand is there from FLL- S America? Could/would Jetblue be able to easy fill the 24 seats in mint of the LR/XLR for S. America flights? Or would the 16 seat mint standard NEO be a better fit with more core seating for S. America?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/simpleflyi ... pared/amp/
Simple flying lists the standard NEO to have a range of 3,500nm with 240 all economy seats. B6s standard mint NEO only has 160. All of the major routes from FLL might be doable with the 160 config and with the routes being more North/South not having as much headwinds. What might be the expected range of the standard NEO with 160 seats?
FLL-GRU 3547nm
FLL-GIG 3625nm
FLL-EZE 3842nm
FLL-SCL 3594nm
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:08 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I think at this point, no one really knows what their TATL operation will eventually look like. JetBlue has a plan, but it will really depend on how well these initial flights go and how the demand comes back. They are taking 6 LRs in 2021 and 2022, which should allow them to do 5 or 6 R/T from NYC/Boston to London.

13 LRs + 13 XLRs will be quite a bit of capacity already. That will allow them to schedule maybe 25 flights a day. That could be to Europe or to South America or even to the Pacifics. If things go well, I'm sure they could add to that and A321 range should continue to increase over time.

I also don't see why they would concede NYC TATL flying to AA? Now that they are getting additional capacity at EWR and slots at JFK/LGA, NYC will be larger than BOS. There is no reason Boston has to be primary TATL hub.

I don't see why they would have an issue competing against DL's JFK hub or AA's JFK operation or UA's EWR operation. They will have much fewer seats to fill. They will have just as much feed as everyone else. A321LR/XLR have much lower cost than competition. But we will see. They will need to balance out domestic and international growth over the next few years.

As I just mentioned above, they have domestic growth at NYC, building up SoFla, bringing back Boston, building up LAX and possibly building up SFO/RDU. There are a lot of things they have to balance out at the moment.



No one is conceding anything.

A bunch of dudes posting conjecture.

Bid opens March 1 for international pilot bases at JFK and BOS.

End of story.


EWR isn’t a domestic base yet so why would they open an international one? They could still fly EWR TATL ops without a base at EWR.



They could do a lot of things. But right now EWR TA is not in the initial plan. Nor Florida.

Toe in the water with JFK and BOS (apparently one of them to start)
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:36 pm

glideslope900 wrote:
With people fleeing the northeast to FL in droves, it seems appropriate they would look at growing MCO/FLL.


The vast majority of migration is from one part of northeast to another part. Let's not assume northeast demise so soon. Although, it's fair to say they have been adding to Florida.

ArcticSEA wrote:
How far could B6 get into Brazil with the LR or XLR from, say, MCO and/of FLL?

Keep in mind there are 2 different ranges. The range that Airbus advertise and the range that JetBlue is comfortable operation these planes at. JetBlue is only comfortable operating LR from Boston/NYC to British Isles and maybe Paris. From FLL, getting to GRU/GIG is definitely stretching things a little bit.

So, I think deep Brazil and even Argentina will have to wait until XLR comes along. JetBlue will have to make a decision on whether they want to use XLR to South America or Central Europe.

Keep in mind that MCO and FLL are not on the same level for JetBlue. They are in a much stronger position in South Florida than Central Florida. Between FLL and MIA, they are operating close to the capacity they had to FLL pre-COVID. And they really don't have a lot of choice here. It has a lot more demand than to NYC/Boston at the moment. Rival airlines are pumping a lot of capacity into Florida. NK is adding more and more dots to FLL. JetBlue would be at risk of becoming like WN in South Florida if they don't up their games there. Being squeezed in the middle between a larger AA and a larger NK is not a great place to be.

So from FLL, we have to consider where else they might add. Certainly, connecting more dots to middle of the country is something they should do. Especially will WN continuing to weaken at FLL while NK continues to add more there. Brazil does make a lot of sense for their long term FLL strategy. They can get to BSB and REC with LR. They can get to Manaus with standard NEO. But aside from Brazil, there are a lot of dots they still need to connect from FLL. Some obvious ones would include CLO, SAL, PTY, SAP and CUZ. All this will have to be balanced with domestic adds and TATL adds.

I think MCO is going to be stagnant or smaller for a while. Since COVID hit, TPA got quite a few adds. They are shifting away from a MCO dominant focus in Central Florida. If we are just looking at demographic shifts, their recent adds to RDU, CHS, TPA and JAX all make a lot of sense.
 
Happytycho
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:11 am

tphuang wrote:
Keep in mind there are 2 different ranges. The range that Airbus advertise and the range that JetBlue is comfortable operation these planes at. JetBlue is only comfortable operating LR from Boston/NYC to British Isles and maybe Paris. From FLL, getting to GRU/GIG is definitely stretching things a little bit.


To put a number on it, this would mean that JetBlue's LR's have a practical TATL range of about 3100-3200nm. If we assume the range increases roughly proportionately for the XLR, it would be in the 3700-3800nm range for TATL. Going south each type's range would probably be a little bit larger thanks to the lower winds.
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:02 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Toe in the water with JFK and BOS (apparently one of them to start)


Is it a coin flip between these two airports, or does one make a whole lot more sense than the other?
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:05 pm

Happytycho wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Keep in mind there are 2 different ranges. The range that Airbus advertise and the range that JetBlue is comfortable operation these planes at. JetBlue is only comfortable operating LR from Boston/NYC to British Isles and maybe Paris. From FLL, getting to GRU/GIG is definitely stretching things a little bit.


To put a number on it, this would mean that JetBlue's LR's have a practical TATL range of about 3100-3200nm. If we assume the range increases roughly proportionately for the XLR, it would be in the 3700-3800nm range for TATL. Going south each type's range would probably be a little bit larger thanks to the lower winds.


Sure, Airbus have stated range of around 3700 miles for A321NEO and 4600 miles for A321LR and 5400 miles for A321XLR. IIRC, Airbus published these based 200 passengers.

JFK-GYE at close to 3000 miles is the longest flight operated by JetBlue on A321NEO. According to people that works for JetBlue who have commented, this sometimes came close to the limit of A321NEO with 200 seat taken and a lot of baggages. We also know that FLL-LIM is a route that really pushed the limit of A321CEO and it's at 2627 miles. If NEO, had 500 nm range surplus on that as JetBlue claimed, then it would put 3250 miles as the realistic range for HD config.

So, on N/S stuff, let's say 200 seat A321NEO have a realistic real world range of 3250 mils. A 160 seat mint A321NEO would have a range of let's say 3400 miles. It sounds like A321LR will have 138 seat. If we add another 900 mile difference from NEO to LR + lower weight, we get a range of 4300 to 4400 miles for LR. Depending on XLR's configs, it's N/S range would be in the 5200 miles range.

From FLL, this is what's possible with HD NEO
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=FLL-LIM%3B ... =wls&DU=mi
Basically, they could try CUZ and MAO as new routes. I can't imagine they'd try any other South American airport.

this is what's possible with LR based on that range.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=FLL-LIM%3B ... =wls&DU=mi
If my calculations are correct, LR actually puts all the major airports outside of EZE in range from FLL.

XLR would put EZE in range.

Now for N/S from JFK using LD A321NEO
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=JFK-LIM%3B ... =wls&DU=mi
LD config doesn't really add anything fro JFK. I wouldn't advise them use LD NEO for non-domestic routes.

Now try LR
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=JFK-LIM%3B ... =wls&DU=mi
It'd be put both LIM and BSB in range

Now XLR
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=JFK-LIM%3B ... =wls&DU=mi
It'd put most of South America into range from JFK

So if TATL doesn't work out, they can use those aircraft to South America.
 
Seat1D
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:53 pm

tphuang wrote:

13 LRs + 13 XLRs will be quite a bit of capacity already. That will allow them to schedule maybe 25 flights a day. That could be to Europe or to South America or even to the Pacifics. If things go well, I'm sure they could add to that and A321 range should continue to increase over time.



specifically, where in the pacifics do you see B6 flying a A321XLR. Are you thinking TPAC or something like Hawaii (question mark key isnt working). I think we need to come back down to earth a tad. Even if the 321XLR had the legs to do LAX to NRT, thats a long time in a narrow body. 6 to 7 hours is doable, but anything more than that, I dont care what airbus or Jetblue does to the interior. Where will the crew rest be on a flight like that. Folks need to draw the line somewhere in the sand. If B6 ever considers TPAC ops, I surely hope they do so with a widebody.

I just looked it up, The block time LAX to NRT is 12 hours. Sorry, but you gotta be out of your mind to want to do that in a narrow body, either as a passenger or a crew member. Not gonna happen. S
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:31 pm

Seat1D wrote:
tphuang wrote:

13 LRs + 13 XLRs will be quite a bit of capacity already. That will allow them to schedule maybe 25 flights a day. That could be to Europe or to South America or even to the Pacifics. If things go well, I'm sure they could add to that and A321 range should continue to increase over time.



specifically, where in the pacifics do you see B6 flying a A321XLR. Are you thinking TPAC or something like Hawaii (question mark key isnt working). I think we need to come back down to earth a tad. Even if the 321XLR had the legs to do LAX to NRT, thats a long time in a narrow body. 6 to 7 hours is doable, but anything more than that, I dont care what airbus or Jetblue does to the interior. Where will the crew rest be on a flight like that. Folks need to draw the line somewhere in the sand. If B6 ever considers TPAC ops, I surely hope they do so with a widebody.

I just looked it up, The block time LAX to NRT is 12 hours. Sorry, but you gotta be out of your mind to want to do that in a narrow body, either as a passenger or a crew member. Not gonna happen. S


For E/W, the current 159 seat A321CEO have enough range to cover a 2700 mile route like BOS-SFO year round. Let's assume Pacific does not have the same range punishing factor like the NorthAtlantic wind, then we will use 2700 mile as baseline range for E/W stuff.

A 500 nm range boost from CEO to NEO would put the A321NEO range on E/W stuff to 3300 miles. If we use the same calculation as we had with LR/XLR for N/S stuff, it'd put XLR range at 5100 miles.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LAX-HNL%3B ... =wls&DU=mi
From LAX, you can get to HNL with a standard A321NEO.
With XLR, you could even try JFK-HNL since it's range is under 5000 miles.
LAX-PPT should be do-able with XLR.
LAX-CTS might be do-able.

LAX-NRT would require another range boost. So, if there is an P&W pip of 3% efficiency gain + using a really lightly configure XLR, they might do it. Although, that'd be really pushing it. SFO-NRT would be more do-able.

In reality, it would seem crazy for JetBlue to try TPAC with A321 series aircraft. They will probably get a widebody aircraft if the the long haul flying goes well.
 
Seat1D
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:44 pm

tphuang wrote:
Seat1D wrote:
tphuang wrote:

13 LRs + 13 XLRs will be quite a bit of capacity already. That will allow them to schedule maybe 25 flights a day. That could be to Europe or to South America or even to the Pacifics. If things go well, I'm sure they could add to that and A321 range should continue to increase over time.



specifically, where in the pacifics do you see B6 flying a A321XLR. Are you thinking TPAC or something like Hawaii (question mark key isnt working). I think we need to come back down to earth a tad. Even if the 321XLR had the legs to do LAX to NRT, thats a long time in a narrow body. 6 to 7 hours is doable, but anything more than that, I dont care what airbus or Jetblue does to the interior. Where will the crew rest be on a flight like that. Folks need to draw the line somewhere in the sand. If B6 ever considers TPAC ops, I surely hope they do so with a widebody.

I just looked it up, The block time LAX to NRT is 12 hours. Sorry, but you gotta be out of your mind to want to do that in a narrow body, either as a passenger or a crew member. Not gonna happen. S


For E/W, the current 159 seat A321CEO have enough range to cover a 2700 mile route like BOS-SFO year round. Let's assume Pacific does not have the same range punishing factor like the NorthAtlantic wind, then we will use 2700 mile as baseline range for E/W stuff.

A 500 nm range boost from CEO to NEO would put the A321NEO range on E/W stuff to 3300 miles. If we use the same calculation as we had with LR/XLR for N/S stuff, it'd put XLR range at 5100 miles.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LAX-HNL%3B ... =wls&DU=mi
From LAX, you can get to HNL with a standard A321NEO.
With XLR, you could even try JFK-HNL since it's range is under 5000 miles.
LAX-PPT should be do-able with XLR.
LAX-CTS might be do-able.

LAX-NRT would require another range boost. So, if there is an P&W pip of 3% efficiency gain + using a really lightly configure XLR, they might do it. Although, that'd be really pushing it. SFO-NRT would be more do-able.

In reality, it would seem crazy for JetBlue to try TPAC with A321 series aircraft. They will probably get a widebody aircraft if the the long haul flying goes well.


in 5 to 10 years time, if I was a betting man, I would say that Airbus will definitely have a range boost to its 321 series aircraft that could potentially see a narrow body fully crossing the pacific, I suppose if you can comfortably rest your crew on those longer flights and provide even more widebody like comforts to passengers, then why not (question mark key still not working). Speaking of which, where will the crew rest on the 321NEO and 321XLR.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:54 pm

Seat1D wrote:
Speaking of which, where will the crew rest on the 321NEO and 321XLR.


Good question. Has B6 committed to pilots that they will be getting a Class 2 rest facility on XLRs?
 
Seat1D
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:01 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Seat1D wrote:
Speaking of which, where will the crew rest on the 321NEO and 321XLR.


Good question. Has B6 committed to pilots that they will be getting a Class 2 rest facility on XLRs?


it really is a good question. You hear about the comforts for the passengers, the swanky MINT seats, but what about the crew. what do they get. They are just as important
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:36 pm

Seat1D wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Seat1D wrote:
Speaking of which, where will the crew rest on the 321NEO and 321XLR.


Good question. Has B6 committed to pilots that they will be getting a Class 2 rest facility on XLRs?


it really is a good question. You hear about the comforts for the passengers, the swanky MINT seats, but what about the crew. what do they get. They are just as important



Is that a priority? Look at the back galley on the refurbished 320s and 321s. The lavs are in the galley and the jumpseats right in front of the lav doors so the FAs spend the flight with their knees brushing people's butts as they enter and exit the lavs.
 
trueblew
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:46 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Seat1D wrote:
Speaking of which, where will the crew rest on the 321NEO and 321XLR.


Good question. Has B6 committed to pilots that they will be getting a Class 2 rest facility on XLRs?


Yes. The pilot contract calls for Class 2 rest facilities (it will be a Mint seat fitted with a curtain).
 
Seat1D
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:50 pm

trueblew wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Seat1D wrote:
Speaking of which, where will the crew rest on the 321NEO and 321XLR.


Good question. Has B6 committed to pilots that they will be getting a Class 2 rest facility on XLRs?


Yes. The pilot contract calls for Class 2 rest facilities (it will be a Mint seat fitted with a curtain).


what about flight attendants and where will the relief pilot(s) sit
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:57 pm

CobaltScar wrote:

Is that a priority? Look at the back galley on the refurbished 320s and 321s. The lavs are in the galley and the jumpseats right in front of the lav doors so the FAs spend the flight with their knees brushing people's butts as they enter and exit the lavs.


Well, apart from how the company values pilot comfort (and how they negotiate it here specifically), there's the matter of the Class of crew rest (FAA's term) and how it determines max hours for augmented flightcrew operations. I wouldn't expect B6 to burn 200 sq ft of floor space to provide a bunk room with beds, a shower, a toilet and a bidet, but they will pay attention to requirements to yield max range at reasonable cost. It seems unlikely that the XLR will really test that, as even a Class 3 facility with 3 pilots gives 13 hours op time.
 
Seat1D
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:15 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

Is that a priority? Look at the back galley on the refurbished 320s and 321s. The lavs are in the galley and the jumpseats right in front of the lav doors so the FAs spend the flight with their knees brushing people's butts as they enter and exit the lavs.


Well, apart from how the company values pilot comfort (and how they negotiate it here specifically), there's the matter of the Class of crew rest (FAA's term) and how it determines max hours for augmented flightcrew operations. I wouldn't expect B6 to burn 200 sq ft of floor space to provide a bunk room with beds, a shower, a toilet and a bidet, but they will pay attention to requirements to yield max range at reasonable cost. It seems unlikely that the XLR will really test that, as even a Class 3 facility with 3 pilots gives 13 hours op time.


I take it most if not all current wide body aircraft have crew rest areas that are tucked away from the passengers. So thats one big detractor to working on a narrow body plane thats flying long haul, is the fact that you will truly never be able to escape the passenger, especially as a flight attendant.
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:23 pm

Seat1D wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

Is that a priority? Look at the back galley on the refurbished 320s and 321s. The lavs are in the galley and the jumpseats right in front of the lav doors so the FAs spend the flight with their knees brushing people's butts as they enter and exit the lavs.


Well, apart from how the company values pilot comfort (and how they negotiate it here specifically), there's the matter of the Class of crew rest (FAA's term) and how it determines max hours for augmented flightcrew operations. I wouldn't expect B6 to burn 200 sq ft of floor space to provide a bunk room with beds, a shower, a toilet and a bidet, but they will pay attention to requirements to yield max range at reasonable cost. It seems unlikely that the XLR will really test that, as even a Class 3 facility with 3 pilots gives 13 hours op time.


I take it most if not all current wide body aircraft have crew rest areas that are tucked away from the passengers. So thats one big detractor to working on a narrow body plane thats flying long haul, is the fact that you will truly never be able to escape the passenger, especially as a flight attendant.


I think it’s safe to assume that at least 1 j seat will be blocked off for pilot. Whether there will be additional seat really depends on fa concluding on a contract. It’a not that uncommon to see j seat blocked off even on widebody aircraft.

Frankly, the original poster does nothing except complain about fa operating space on this thread. Despite the fact that all carriers are moving in this direction.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:36 pm

tphuang wrote:
Seat1D wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Well, apart from how the company values pilot comfort (and how they negotiate it here specifically), there's the matter of the Class of crew rest (FAA's term) and how it determines max hours for augmented flightcrew operations. I wouldn't expect B6 to burn 200 sq ft of floor space to provide a bunk room with beds, a shower, a toilet and a bidet, but they will pay attention to requirements to yield max range at reasonable cost. It seems unlikely that the XLR will really test that, as even a Class 3 facility with 3 pilots gives 13 hours op time.


I take it most if not all current wide body aircraft have crew rest areas that are tucked away from the passengers. So thats one big detractor to working on a narrow body plane thats flying long haul, is the fact that you will truly never be able to escape the passenger, especially as a flight attendant.


I think it’s safe to assume that at least 1 j seat will be blocked off for pilot. Whether there will be additional seat really depends on fa concluding on a contract. It’a not that uncommon to see j seat blocked off even on widebody aircraft.

Frankly, the original poster does nothing except complain about fa operating space on this thread. Despite the fact that all carriers are moving in this direction.


Oh really? Airbus themselves said their spaceflex galleys where never ment for long haul operations, but for short hops in Europe. Its callus how some enthusiasts put so little regard for humane working conditions in a industry they claim to be enthusiastic about.
 
Seat1D
Posts: 71
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:45 pm

tphuang wrote:
Seat1D wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Well, apart from how the company values pilot comfort (and how they negotiate it here specifically), there's the matter of the Class of crew rest (FAA's term) and how it determines max hours for augmented flightcrew operations. I wouldn't expect B6 to burn 200 sq ft of floor space to provide a bunk room with beds, a shower, a toilet and a bidet, but they will pay attention to requirements to yield max range at reasonable cost. It seems unlikely that the XLR will really test that, as even a Class 3 facility with 3 pilots gives 13 hours op time.


I take it most if not all current wide body aircraft have crew rest areas that are tucked away from the passengers. So thats one big detractor to working on a narrow body plane thats flying long haul, is the fact that you will truly never be able to escape the passenger, especially as a flight attendant.


I think it’s safe to assume that at least 1 j seat will be blocked off for pilot. Whether there will be additional seat really depends on fa concluding on a contract. It’a not that uncommon to see j seat blocked off even on widebody aircraft.

Frankly, the original poster does nothing except complain about fa operating space on this thread. Despite the fact that all carriers are moving in this direction.


The technological advances in narrow body aircraft will allow B6, and other airlines, to fly long haul routes that before were never possible but its equally important for ALL crew members to have a place to rest away from the passengers. I realize that ALL airlines block seats for crew but at least with the legacies and their widebody aircraft, they have bonafide crew rest areas where they can go to Get Away From it All. B6 crew wont have that luxury with narrow body long haul ops. Its a huge disadvantage to long haul narrow body ops, especially when your flying on a 7 hour plus flight.
 
DELTA777
Posts: 681
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:48 pm

Seat1D wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Seat1D wrote:

specifically, where in the pacifics do you see B6 flying a A321XLR. Are you thinking TPAC or something like Hawaii (question mark key isnt working). I think we need to come back down to earth a tad. Even if the 321XLR had the legs to do LAX to NRT, thats a long time in a narrow body. 6 to 7 hours is doable, but anything more than that, I dont care what airbus or Jetblue does to the interior. Where will the crew rest be on a flight like that. Folks need to draw the line somewhere in the sand. If B6 ever considers TPAC ops, I surely hope they do so with a widebody.

I just looked it up, The block time LAX to NRT is 12 hours. Sorry, but you gotta be out of your mind to want to do that in a narrow body, either as a passenger or a crew member. Not gonna happen. S


For E/W, the current 159 seat A321CEO have enough range to cover a 2700 mile route like BOS-SFO year round. Let's assume Pacific does not have the same range punishing factor like the NorthAtlantic wind, then we will use 2700 mile as baseline range for E/W stuff.

A 500 nm range boost from CEO to NEO would put the A321NEO range on E/W stuff to 3300 miles. If we use the same calculation as we had with LR/XLR for N/S stuff, it'd put XLR range at 5100 miles.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LAX-HNL%3B ... =wls&DU=mi
From LAX, you can get to HNL with a standard A321NEO.
With XLR, you could even try JFK-HNL since it's range is under 5000 miles.
LAX-PPT should be do-able with XLR.
LAX-CTS might be do-able.

LAX-NRT would require another range boost. So, if there is an P&W pip of 3% efficiency gain + using a really lightly configure XLR, they might do it. Although, that'd be really pushing it. SFO-NRT would be more do-able.

In reality, it would seem crazy for JetBlue to try TPAC with A321 series aircraft. They will probably get a widebody aircraft if the the long haul flying goes well.


in 5 to 10 years time, if I was a betting man, I would say that Airbus will definitely have a range boost to its 321 series aircraft that could potentially see a narrow body fully crossing the pacific, I suppose if you can comfortably rest your crew on those longer flights and provide even more widebody like comforts to passengers, then why not (question mark key still not working). Speaking of which, where will the crew rest on the 321NEO and 321XLR.



Crew Rest will be 1 Mint seat for pilots and a row (3 seats) in Core for Flight Attendants.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:56 pm

DELTA777 wrote:

a row (3 seats) in Core for Flight Attendants.


Source?
 
DELTA777
Posts: 681
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 6:34 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:58 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
DELTA777 wrote:

a row (3 seats) in Core for Flight Attendants.


Source?


JetBlue Flight Attendant Manual
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 825
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:59 pm

DELTA777 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
DELTA777 wrote:

a row (3 seats) in Core for Flight Attendants.


Source?


JetBlue Flight Attendant Manual


page and section?
 
DELTA777
Posts: 681
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 6:34 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:01 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
DELTA777 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

Source?


JetBlue Flight Attendant Manual


page and section?



PM sent
 
Seat1D
Posts: 71
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:26 pm

DELTA777 wrote:
[


Crew Rest will be 1 Mint seat for pilots and a row (3 seats) in Core for Flight Attendants.


Thanks. not to get to technical but will the crew rest for FAs in Core be curtained off (still cant get the question mark to work). Its obvious that Airbus and B6 have gone to great lengths to make the long haul narrow body ride as comfortable as possible for passengers but what can really be done for the crew, in particular, the flight attendants. No one really talks about the crew and the narrow body experience but thats just as important as taking care of the pax.
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:28 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Seat1D wrote:

I take it most if not all current wide body aircraft have crew rest areas that are tucked away from the passengers. So thats one big detractor to working on a narrow body plane thats flying long haul, is the fact that you will truly never be able to escape the passenger, especially as a flight attendant.


I think it’s safe to assume that at least 1 j seat will be blocked off for pilot. Whether there will be additional seat really depends on fa concluding on a contract. It’a not that uncommon to see j seat blocked off even on widebody aircraft.

Frankly, the original poster does nothing except complain about fa operating space on this thread. Despite the fact that all carriers are moving in this direction.


Oh really? Airbus themselves said their spaceflex galleys where never ment for long haul operations, but for short hops in Europe. Its callus how some enthusiasts put so little regard for humane working conditions in a industry they claim to be enthusiastic about.


How many times on this thread have you spent complaining about spaceflex galleys for domestic operations on this thread (including earlier)? You don't seem to understand that all the airlines are doing this. This is where the industry is at.

As for LRs, have you seen the cabin layout? if you haven't seen the cabins, how would you know what they have set up for TATL operations?

Does the A321 mint use spaceflex galley? If it doesn't, why do you assume A321NEO LD or LR would?

Seat1D wrote:
The technological advances in narrow body aircraft will allow B6, and other airlines, to fly long haul routes that before were never possible but its equally important for ALL crew members to have a place to rest away from the passengers. I realize that ALL airlines block seats for crew but at least with the legacies and their widebody aircraft, they have bonafide crew rest areas where they can go to Get Away From it All. B6 crew wont have that luxury with narrow body long haul ops. Its a huge disadvantage to long haul narrow body
ops, especially when your flying on a 7 hour plus flight.


Well, legacies have long operated 757s on TATL markets. Both AA and UA have also ordered 50 A321XLR. Narrowbody aircraft will eventually take over more and more of TATL market, because they are far more economical to fly. That's just the reality.

Just wait until an extended range version of A220 starts flying TATL.
 
DELTA777
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:31 pm

Seat1D wrote:
DELTA777 wrote:
[


Crew Rest will be 1 Mint seat for pilots and a row (3 seats) in Core for Flight Attendants.


Thanks. not to get to technical but will the crew rest for FAs in Core be curtained off (still cant get the question mark to work). Its obvious that Airbus and B6 have gone to great lengths to make the long haul narrow body ride as comfortable as possible for passengers but what can really be done for the crew, in particular, the flight attendants. No one really talks about the crew and the narrow body experience but thats just as important as taking care of the pax.



I don’t have any details on crew rest, such as curtains. One thing to consider: BOS/JFK-London isn’t long enough for substantial crew rest especially when you consider the amount of time the Inflight service will take in Mint and Core. But I agree with you and appreciate the sentiment. :)
 
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DalDC9Bos
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:48 pm

Anyone else think that all of this is just a non-event in the long run? JetBlue has never been and never will be a carrier that threatens the majors. So they launch flights to some European cites, but lack connectivity on that end and won’t easily convert old timers with real money to switch from BA/AA/DL/VA/UA with premium perks and elite statuses.

Few non-majors make it in the long or short term flying US to secondary European markets. The premium flyers don’t fly to those more leisure markets and even with cost advantages of the A321LR, the other expenses for TATL flights are still there.

Lastly, as an actual NYC airline, aka created in NYC, not just with a base, these airlines don’t have a positive record when it comes to sustaining long haul flying to Europe for various reasons. Their quality, on-time ratings, constant competition, and well hiring so much staff from NYC, you get some really lacking team members. As resident of NYC, for me it’s been an airline who long lost its ‘coolness’ having PTV and blue chips lol to one that runs like a bad YouTube video about crazy inflight crews, trimmed legroom and all the ancillary costs, to flying only a few days a week on some routes last year with Covid even in December. We should start a bet on how long these flights last and/or till they get bought.
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:13 pm

DalDC9Bos wrote:
Anyone else think that all of this is just a non-event in the long run? JetBlue has never been and never will be a carrier that threatens the majors. So they launch flights to some European cites, but lack connectivity on that end and won’t easily convert old timers with real money to switch from BA/AA/DL/VA/UA with premium perks and elite statuses.

Few non-majors make it in the long or short term flying US to secondary European markets. The premium flyers don’t fly to those more leisure markets and even with cost advantages of the A321LR, the other expenses for TATL flights are still there.

Lastly, as an actual NYC airline, aka created in NYC, not just with a base, these airlines don’t have a positive record when it comes to sustaining long haul flying to Europe for various reasons. Their quality, on-time ratings, constant competition, and well hiring so much staff from NYC, you get some really lacking team members. As resident of NYC, for me it’s been an airline who long lost its ‘coolness’ having PTV and blue chips lol to one that runs like a bad YouTube video about crazy inflight crews, trimmed legroom and all the ancillary costs, to flying only a few days a week on some routes last year with Covid even in December. We should start a bet on how long these flights last and/or till they get bought.


Even if we assume you are right that JetBlue will never threaten majors, your analysis is quite flawed. "Secondary European" markets are not a monolithic market. There are markets that are underserved like NYC to Berlin. There are more heavily pure leisure markets like NYC to Canarys or Nice or Sevilla or Rome or Azores. There are also more VFR markets like Palermo, British Isles and Athens. There are also more business oriented markets. Premium flyers absolutely do fly to more leisure markets. People with money do go on vacation and visit their families. JetBlue will find out whether they can compete with Legacies on the more business heavy market. If they can't, they can try more VFR and leisure markets like the ones they do well in Latin America. Stuff like NYC to Rome prints money in summer time. They might have to take more seasonal approach where more LR/XLR shift to Europe from April to October and then toward Latin America in other parts of the year. We will see.

As for your last part, which recent NYC airline "don't have a positive record " when it comes to sustaining long haul flying to Europe. That makes no sense. What does being based in NYC have anything to do with success to Europe?
 
Seat1D
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:55 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:17 pm

tphuang wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I think it’s safe to assume that at least 1 j seat will be blocked off for pilot. Whether there will be additional seat really depends on fa concluding on a contract. It’a not that uncommon to see j seat blocked off even on widebody aircraft.

Frankly, the original poster does nothing except complain about fa operating space on this thread. Despite the fact that all carriers are moving in this direction.


Oh really? Airbus themselves said their spaceflex galleys where never ment for long haul operations, but for short hops in Europe. Its callus how some enthusiasts put so little regard for humane working conditions in a industry they claim to be enthusiastic about.


How many times on this thread have you spent complaining about spaceflex galleys for domestic operations on this thread (including earlier)? You don't seem to understand that all the airlines are doing this. This is where the industry is at.

As for LRs, have you seen the cabin layout? if you haven't seen the cabins, how would you know what they have set up for TATL operations?

Does the A321 mint use spaceflex galley? If it doesn't, why do you assume A321NEO LD or LR would?

Seat1D wrote:
The technological advances in narrow body aircraft will allow B6, and other airlines, to fly long haul routes that before were never possible but its equally important for ALL crew members to have a place to rest away from the passengers. I realize that ALL airlines block seats for crew but at least with the legacies and their widebody aircraft, they have bonafide crew rest areas where they can go to Get Away From it All. B6 crew wont have that luxury with narrow body long haul ops. Its a huge disadvantage to long haul narrow body
ops, especially when your flying on a 7 hour plus flight.


Well, legacies have long operated 757s on TATL markets. Both AA and UA have also ordered 50 A321XLR. Narrowbody aircraft will eventually take over more and more of TATL market, because they are far more economical to fly. That's just the reality.

Just wait until an extended range version of A220 starts flying TATL.


taking it a bit personal huh. the legacies operate narrow body across the pond for a long time but they also operate plush widebodies with superb crew rest areas. The legacies operate narrow bodies on short hops across the pond.. B6 plans on pushing the limits of the 321XLR like no other carrier, more so than the legacies. The crew rest on a narrow body on these longer flights will really put a hurting on flight attendants. Like I said, and you failed to address, those really long flights, flight attendants will need and want their own space away from passengers. JetBlue FAs AND any other flight attendant on ANY other airline will absoutely hate the longest of flights on the XLR, NOT just B6. I just think its a shame that Airbus, and in this case B6, havent really given much consideration to flight attendants
 
11C
Posts: 255
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:46 pm

DalDC9Bos wrote:
Anyone else think that all of this is just a non-event in the long run? JetBlue has never been and never will be a carrier that threatens the majors. So they launch flights to some European cites, but lack connectivity on that end and won’t easily convert old timers with real money to switch from BA/AA/DL/VA/UA with premium perks and elite statuses.

Few non-majors make it in the long or short term flying US to secondary European markets. The premium flyers don’t fly to those more leisure markets and even with cost advantages of the A321LR, the other expenses for TATL flights are still there.

Lastly, as an actual NYC airline, aka created in NYC, not just with a base, these airlines don’t have a positive record when it comes to sustaining long haul flying to Europe for various reasons. Their quality, on-time ratings, constant competition, and well hiring so much staff from NYC, you get some really lacking team members. As resident of NYC, for me it’s been an airline who long lost its ‘coolness’ having PTV and blue chips lol to one that runs like a bad YouTube video about crazy inflight crews, trimmed legroom and all the ancillary costs, to flying only a few days a week on some routes last year with Covid even in December. We should start a bet on how long these flights last and/or till they get bought.


Would you care to let us in on what you mean with, “you get some really lacking team members.” For that matter, not much of what you say seems very nuanced, nor does it seem to be much more than a diatribe. I get your criticism of the concept of JetBlue flying to Europe, but I don’t see how the rest of those comments add anything at all to your point.

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