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MGASJO
Posts: 358
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:54 pm

UkiAir wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
B6 is hiring for a supervisory position in France. The state it is allocated in is not in Paris nor Lyon (closer to Lyon though).

JetBlue Airways: Supervisor Airport and Ground Operations
https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/2492618013


GY as in Guayana.

Gy as in a commune in the Haute-Saône department of Bourgogne-Franche-Comté in eastern France. Straight from Wikipedia


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usflyer msp
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:57 pm

MGASJO wrote:
UkiAir wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
B6 is hiring for a supervisory position in France. The state it is allocated in is not in Paris nor Lyon (closer to Lyon though).

JetBlue Airways: Supervisor Airport and Ground Operations
https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/2492618013


GY as in Guayana.

Gy as in a commune in the Haute-Saône department of Bourgogne-Franche-Comté in eastern France. Straight from Wikipedia


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They are saying linkedin was confused about GY and listed it incorrectly.
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:11 pm

Assuming that London flying goes ahead in late summer as they have planned, how do they handle the spare situation?

Will they start JFK-LHR with only 1 LR in active service? Or will they wait until a second one is in service? Will they wait for the 3rd LR to join service before serving both JFK/BOS-LHR?

If they always have 1 LR as a spare, will it be making short domestic rotations or longer routes like JFK-LAX or a route like JFK-KEF where they can swap out for a regular A321NEO in the event one of the LR is not available?
 
av8tiongeek
Posts: 162
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:26 pm

MGASJO wrote:
UkiAir wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
B6 is hiring for a supervisory position in France. The state it is allocated in is not in Paris nor Lyon (closer to Lyon though).

JetBlue Airways: Supervisor Airport and Ground Operations
https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/2492618013


GY as in Guayana.

Gy as in a commune in the Haute-Saône department of Bourgogne-Franche-Comté in eastern France. Straight from Wikipedia


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://careers.jetblue.com/job/Supervi ... 735870300/

Guyana
 
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adamh8297
Posts: 3277
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:40 pm

av8tiongeek wrote:
MGASJO wrote:
UkiAir wrote:

GY as in Guayana.

Gy as in a commune in the Haute-Saône department of Bourgogne-Franche-Comté in eastern France. Straight from Wikipedia


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://careers.jetblue.com/job/Supervi ... 735870300/

Guyana


Sometimes LinkedIn scours other job boards and the locations of some of these positions really get twisted up by automated sharing/posting.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
IdlewildJFK
Posts: 57
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:40 pm

tphuang wrote:
Assuming that London flying goes ahead in late summer as they have planned, how do they handle the spare situation?

Will they start JFK-LHR with only 1 LR in active service? Or will they wait until a second one is in service? Will they wait for the 3rd LR to join service before serving both JFK/BOS-LHR?

If they always have 1 LR as a spare, will it be making short domestic rotations or longer routes like JFK-LAX or a route like JFK-KEF where they can swap out for a regular A321NEO in the event one of the LR is not available?


I don’t think they will have a spare this year or next. My guess is is all 3 will be doing daily RT flights, and all 3 next year as well. The cost of a spare alone is way more than the cost of refunding tics/hotels/food a few times per year if they had a mx issue that resulted in cx flight. Now when they get up to double digit LRs/XLRs the math may work better but I can’t see there being any spares in 2021/22.

My guess is they won’t spend 60 million for the spare (or what ever they actually pay) on top of 120 million for the 2 operating AC just to save the cost of a cx flight a few times per year. It’s a brand new AC, with 8 hrs of down time a day, crewed directly from and having reserves in both domestic bases (though not LON). Recovery should be easier and I guess wile there maybe long delays if there is an issue, the crew rest timings of one leg per day and lots of down time for the AC lend to being able to recover from long delays easier than other fleets.

My guess is no spare until 2023 or beyond.

No inside info - all just guessing.
 
TexasAirCorp
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 01, 2021 1:06 pm

Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but B6's CEO has said it has plans to commence service to Paris once London service is up and running. He's also stated he wants to serve regional UK airports during the summer season.

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/jet ... -this-year
 
PSA727
Posts: 915
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 7:32 am

IdlewildJFK wrote:
I don’t think they will have a spare this year or next. My guess is is all 3 will be doing daily RT flights, and all 3 next year as well. The cost of a spare alone is way more than the cost of refunding tics/hotels/food a few times per year if they had a mx issue that resulted in cx flight. Now when they get up to double digit LRs/XLRs the math may work better but I can’t see there being any spares in 2021/22.

My guess is they won’t spend 60 million for the spare (or what ever they actually pay) on top of 120 million for the 2 operating AC just to save the cost of a cx flight a few times per year. It’s a brand new AC, with 8 hrs of down time a day, crewed directly from and having reserves in both domestic bases (though not LON). Recovery should be easier and I guess wile there maybe long delays if there is an issue, the crew rest timings of one leg per day and lots of down time for the AC lend to being able to recover from long delays easier than other fleets.

My guess is no spare until 2023 or beyond.

No inside info - all just guessing.

Are you saying all three aircraft will be doing 3 daily RT flights to Europe? Or just 3 daily RT flights in general? Because a "hot spare" doesn't sit idle all day in the anticipation of an aircraft going MX. It just doesn't continue with a new RT turn to Europe. So, there's one aircraft which comes inbound from Europe, and then will RON at JFK to do a RT flight to LAX the next morning, for example, and then goes on to Europe after returning from LAX in the evening. And honestly, they might just end up with more net revenue from that RT LAX flight sequence than with a RT LON one.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
IdlewildJFK
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 02, 2021 10:50 am

PSA727 wrote:
IdlewildJFK wrote:
I don’t think they will have a spare this year or next. My guess is is all 3 will be doing daily RT flights, and all 3 next year as well. The cost of a spare alone is way more than the cost of refunding tics/hotels/food a few times per year if they had a mx issue that resulted in cx flight. Now when they get up to double digit LRs/XLRs the math may work better but I can’t see there being any spares in 2021/22.

My guess is they won’t spend 60 million for the spare (or what ever they actually pay) on top of 120 million for the 2 operating AC just to save the cost of a cx flight a few times per year. It’s a brand new AC, with 8 hrs of down time a day, crewed directly from and having reserves in both domestic bases (though not LON). Recovery should be easier and I guess wile there maybe long delays if there is an issue, the crew rest timings of one leg per day and lots of down time for the AC lend to being able to recover from long delays easier than other fleets.

My guess is no spare until 2023 or beyond.

No inside info - all just guessing.

Are you saying all three aircraft will be doing 3 daily RT flights to Europe? Or just 3 daily RT flights in general? Because a "hot spare" doesn't sit idle all day in the anticipation of an aircraft going MX. It just doesn't continue with a new RT turn to Europe. So, there's one aircraft which comes inbound from Europe, and then will RON at JFK to do a RT flight to LAX the next morning, for example, and then goes on to Europe after returning from LAX in the evening. And honestly, they might just end up with more net revenue from that RT LAX flight sequence than with a RT LON one.


Each of the 3 LRs will do 2 legs per 24 hrs. Those legs will be the 6-7 hr flight each way to/from LON. 10-12 hrs of down time per day. Not nearly enough time to do a LAX turn since it won’t be a continuous 10-12 block and a turn to LAX would need almost 16 hrs free. Plus they aren’t going to want to run these 24 hrs a day anyway. 12- 14 hrs running per day is still excellent utilization. I don’t consider the 10-12 hrs of down time per day as a hot spare either as, one, it will be broken up with some in LON and the other period in the domestic base. Two, these down times will probably overlap on at least 2 of the LRs since the slots into LON from both BOS and JFK will be the typical red eye over, AM back. The third - who knows what times they run on it but it could potentially by able to swapped to save a delay but it wouldn’t be enough time to do a turn before it’s scheduled planned flight over.

I also don’t think they will want to risk the LON operation by getting their LRs stuck in the domestic system.

So 3 LRs would net 6 total legs per day. No spares. No hot spares. No extra flying outside LON. That’s my guess anyway.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed May 05, 2021 9:31 pm

Tomorrow should definitely be the best day for JetBlue since the Pandemic began.

I only checked EWR so far but I’m seeing at least 25 full or nearly full (less then 5 open seats) for EWR alone. Anyone have LF’s for tomorrow?
 
MGASJO
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 06, 2021 6:40 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Tomorrow should definitely be the best day for JetBlue since the Pandemic began.

I only checked EWR so far but I’m seeing at least 25 full or nearly full (less then 5 open seats) for EWR alone. Anyone have LF’s for tomorrow?

835 scheduled flights. 73.7% LF


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avi8
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 06, 2021 7:15 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Tomorrow should definitely be the best day for JetBlue since the Pandemic began.

I only checked EWR so far but I’m seeing at least 25 full or nearly full (less then 5 open seats) for EWR alone. Anyone have LF’s for tomorrow?


Is there a public website to check the load factors, I’ve been meaning to see the loads on JFK-GUA, which starts flying with an A321 today.
avi8
 
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TheLunchbox
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 06, 2021 8:21 pm

MGASJO wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Tomorrow should definitely be the best day for JetBlue since the Pandemic began.

I only checked EWR so far but I’m seeing at least 25 full or nearly full (less then 5 open seats) for EWR alone. Anyone have LF’s for tomorrow?

835 scheduled flights. 73.7% LF


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well then... someone is sharing internal info.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 06, 2021 9:34 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Tomorrow should definitely be the best day for JetBlue since the Pandemic began.

I only checked EWR so far but I’m seeing at least 25 full or nearly full (less then 5 open seats) for EWR alone. Anyone have LF’s for tomorrow?


Why today?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1895
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Thu May 06, 2021 10:47 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Tomorrow should definitely be the best day for JetBlue since the Pandemic began.

I only checked EWR so far but I’m seeing at least 25 full or nearly full (less then 5 open seats) for EWR alone. Anyone have LF’s for tomorrow?


Why today?


Jump from April to May schedule. AA had huge numbers today too from what I have heard.
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 1:19 am

Good to see the jump from April to May schedule did not hurt LF

On other news
https://www.regulations.gov/document/FAA-2013-0259-3107
FAA telling airlines to submit schedule for winter season for JFK/EWR/LAX/SFO/ORD. Probably the most important part of this
" carriers should plan and submit their schedules under the assumption that no further relief will be granted at Level 2 and Level 3 airports during the Winter 2021/2022 scheduling season."

It'd be interesting to see whether or not slot waiver gets extended another 6 months.

Also, I'm curious to see if B6 will try out HVN at some point. I previously thought they didn't have an aircraft that can operate from HVN to Florida. But with the tree cutting, supreme court case settled and possible runway extension + terminal improvement, it seems pretty easy for them to try a couple of E90 flights to MCO/FLL. It seems like kind of the routes that would be easy success like their BDL/HPN-Florida stuff. Is there any reason for Jetblue to not jump on this for at least a couple of flights?
 
sfojvjets
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri May 07, 2021 2:12 am

tphuang wrote:
Is there any reason for Jetblue to not jump on this for at least a couple of flights?

Yes, I'd say Avelo, LOL. Despite not being announced yet, I would be very surprised if XP does not fly HVN-Florida. It doesn't make sense to compete with an airline that is running 150-seaters 737-700s (so pretty good CASM) and selling fares starting at 19 bucks, when B6's best option is an E190 with poor CASM. Let them do what works for them already. Plus don't they have HPN, PVD, and BDL all in the general vicinity of HVN? What are they missing by not flying from HVN?

On a slightly unrelated note, it seems that Avelo has beat Breeze to the punch, yet again. I'm sure this casts some level of doubt over Breeze's HVN plans, especially since they were interested in serving HVN, at least prior to this XP announcement.
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 10:37 am

Looks like A220 operation will be expanded from BOS-TPA/FLL to also include BOS-AUS/BNA/LGA/MCO/RSW from September 8. They should have 3 A220s by the end of this quarter, so some of this A220 expansion will probably happen before then. Aside from LGA, the rest of the markets are all in the 900 to 1800 mile range. That seems to be a good sweet spot for A220 efficiency. Some additional markets that fit this criteria include BOS-DEN/MSY/DFW/IAH/ATL/MSP. I'd imagine that as demand continues to improve, it makes sense to move some of these A220 flights out of Florida and to those more competitive markets
 
Cboyle
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 1:32 pm

tphuang wrote:
Looks like A220 operation will be expanded from BOS-TPA/FLL to also include BOS-AUS/BNA/LGA/MCO/RSW from September 8. They should have 3 A220s by the end of this quarter, so some of this A220 expansion will probably happen before then. Aside from LGA, the rest of the markets are all in the 900 to 1800 mile range. That seems to be a good sweet spot for A220 efficiency. Some additional markets that fit this criteria include BOS-DEN/MSY/DFW/IAH/ATL/MSP. I'd imagine that as demand continues to improve, it makes sense to move some of these A220 flights out of Florida and to those more competitive markets

I’m not seeing any of these on the A220 operations... when will this be uploaded?
Last edited by Cboyle on Sat May 08, 2021 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
fireman0174
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 1:34 pm

There's a beautiful picture of a La Compagnie A-321-251NX (NEO) taking off from Paris Orly airport. The carrier flies from Orly non-stop to Newark, NJ. I believe their seating capacity is 75 or 76 paxs in a 2x2 configuration.
JetBlue operates the A-321-271NX (NEO).
I have no idea of the differences between the 251NX and 271NX versions, but would I be correct that JetBlue's 271NX version is capable of NY-London as a fill-in for a LR version if needed?
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 7:35 pm

fireman0174 wrote:
There's a beautiful picture of a La Compagnie A-321-251NX (NEO) taking off from Paris Orly airport. The carrier flies from Orly non-stop to Newark, NJ. I believe their seating capacity is 75 or 76 paxs in a 2x2 configuration.
JetBlue operates the A-321-271NX (NEO).
I have no idea of the differences between the 251NX and 271NX versions, but would I be correct that JetBlue's 271NX version is capable of NY-London as a fill-in for a LR version if needed?

The difference is the engines. 5 is the code for the CFM LEAP, 7 is the code for the PW1000. So the -251NX is powered by CFMs, the -271NX is powered by PWs. As to whether it could do JFK-LON, the answer would be yes, but the real question would be with what sort of payload restrictions?

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
BlueBaller
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sat May 08, 2021 10:25 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
fireman0174 wrote:
There's a beautiful picture of a La Compagnie A-321-251NX (NEO) taking off from Paris Orly airport. The carrier flies from Orly non-stop to Newark, NJ. I believe their seating capacity is 75 or 76 paxs in a 2x2 configuration.
JetBlue operates the A-321-271NX (NEO).
I have no idea of the differences between the 251NX and 271NX versions, but would I be correct that JetBlue's 271NX version is capable of NY-London as a fill-in for a LR version if needed?

The difference is the engines. 5 is the code for the CFM LEAP, 7 is the code for the PW1000. So the -251NX is powered by CFMs, the -271NX is powered by PWs. As to whether it could do JFK-LON, the answer would be yes, but the real question would be with what sort of payload restrictions?
V/F


Are we really still having these "payload restriction" discussions? LRs have been flying across the Atlantic since 2019. Even A321CEOs have been at it, flying over 200 pax in all coach from Boston to Spain with Primera. JetBlue isn't going to bat an eye carrying 130 passengers between 7-9 hrs.
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 7:57 am

BlueBaller wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
fireman0174 wrote:
There's a beautiful picture of a La Compagnie A-321-251NX (NEO) taking off from Paris Orly airport. The carrier flies from Orly non-stop to Newark, NJ. I believe their seating capacity is 75 or 76 paxs in a 2x2 configuration.
JetBlue operates the A-321-271NX (NEO).
I have no idea of the differences between the 251NX and 271NX versions, but would I be correct that JetBlue's 271NX version is capable of NY-London as a fill-in for a LR version if needed?

The difference is the engines. 5 is the code for the CFM LEAP, 7 is the code for the PW1000. So the -251NX is powered by CFMs, the -271NX is powered by PWs. As to whether it could do JFK-LON, the answer would be yes, but the real question would be with what sort of payload restrictions?
V/F


Are we really still having these "payload restriction" discussions? LRs have been flying across the Atlantic since 2019. Even A321CEOs have been at it, flying over 200 pax in all coach from Boston to Spain with Primera. JetBlue isn't going to bat an eye carrying 130 passengers between 7-9 hrs.


He’s saying that La Compagnie flies a regular NEO (non-LR) from Paris or Newark in a 76 seat layout, and asking that since they do that, can JetBlue sub in a mint NEO (non-LR) in lieu of an LR if needed. He’s not questioning B6’s LR TATL capability, but rather the B6 LD NEO’s.

To the OP…I’m not sure. I would assume it could be possible from an aircraft capability standpoint (depending on loads)—but the mint NEO would have to be in the etops program, or fly a route like this https://blog.wandr.me/2015/06/non-etops ... -crossing/ which would probably require more gas than it could hold, and thus add another stop. Last I heard, etops wasn’t in the cards for the non-LRs. I am also not sure if the regular mint NEO will have seats set up for crew rest, nor am I sure if they would have the same catering capabilities. The LRs will be able to serve hot meals to everyone, even in coach. I have no idea if a B6 mint NEO (non LR) would have the ovens and whatever other catering stuff the LR has (additional galleys?) to be able to provide that service. So I can’t give you a solid answer, but I would think, at least right now, the answer is no.
 
maverick4002
Posts: 433
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 2:40 pm

Looks like B6 is having a meltdown at JFK this morning. Boarding passes cannot be produced, kiosks, mobile app and website didnt work according to report I heard. Customer service was atrocious and the airline refused to help passengers get on their way. This particular person missed their flight to Seattle and now has an 11 hour delay in arrival. Not good at all
 
BlueBaller
Posts: 132
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 6:05 pm

JoseSalazar wrote:
BlueBaller wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
The difference is the engines. 5 is the code for the CFM LEAP, 7 is the code for the PW1000. So the -251NX is powered by CFMs, the -271NX is powered by PWs. As to whether it could do JFK-LON, the answer would be yes, but the real question would be with what sort of payload restrictions?
V/F


Are we really still having these "payload restriction" discussions? LRs have been flying across the Atlantic since 2019. Even A321CEOs have been at it, flying over 200 pax in all coach from Boston to Spain with Primera. JetBlue isn't going to bat an eye carrying 130 passengers between 7-9 hrs.


He’s saying that La Compagnie flies a regular NEO (non-LR) from Paris or Newark in a 76 seat layout, and asking that since they do that, can JetBlue sub in a mint NEO (non-LR) in lieu of an LR if needed. He’s not questioning B6’s LR TATL capability, but rather the B6 LD NEO’s.

To the OP…I’m not sure. I would assume it could be possible from an aircraft capability standpoint (depending on loads)—but the mint NEO would have to be in the etops program, or fly a route like this https://blog.wandr.me/2015/06/non-etops ... -crossing/ which would probably require more gas than it could hold, and thus add another stop. Last I heard, etops wasn’t in the cards for the non-LRs. I am also not sure if the regular mint NEO will have seats set up for crew rest, nor am I sure if they would have the same catering capabilities. The LRs will be able to serve hot meals to everyone, even in coach. I have no idea if a B6 mint NEO (non LR) would have the ovens and whatever other catering stuff the LR has (additional galleys?) to be able to provide that service. So I can’t give you a solid answer, but I would think, at least right now, the answer is no.


I see that now, thank you.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6409
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 09, 2021 11:13 pm

Cboyle wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Looks like A220 operation will be expanded from BOS-TPA/FLL to also include BOS-AUS/BNA/LGA/MCO/RSW from September 8. They should have 3 A220s by the end of this quarter, so some of this A220 expansion will probably happen before then. Aside from LGA, the rest of the markets are all in the 900 to 1800 mile range. That seems to be a good sweet spot for A220 efficiency. Some additional markets that fit this criteria include BOS-DEN/MSY/DFW/IAH/ATL/MSP. I'd imagine that as demand continues to improve, it makes sense to move some of these A220 flights out of Florida and to those more competitive markets

I’m not seeing any of these on the A220 operations... when will this be uploaded?


I originally saw this on someone's tweet, but there is an article on this now.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-a ... ew-routes/

Again, I do think this current timeline is conservative. You may see A220 starting sooner on some of these routes.

Any guesses on when the next A220 base will open? 8 A220s by the end of this year should cover quite a bit of medium range business markets out of BOS. I would think NYC should be next in line. Maybe sometimes next year? There are a lot of routes like LGA/JFK-BNA or JFK-DFW/AUS/IAH/MSP that would make more sense with A220.

Just taking a look at flights count at their big stations on this first Sunday of May schedule.
JFK - 126 (DL 142, AA 41)
BOS - 90 (DL 64, AA 39)
EWR - 57 (UA 201)
FLL - 82 (NK 99, WN 47)
MCO - 47 (WN 112, NK 69, F9 52)
LAX - 31 (DL 140, AA 118, UA 79, AS 69, WN 53) would be 32 or 33 here if wasn't for a tug accident earlier.
SJU - 36
LGA - 7 (DL 107, AA 42, WN 16)

Anyhow, the final numbers don't look that different from when I last counted this up in March. Final count of 190 flights between JFK/EWR/LGA is probably only about 10 flights less than what they operated between these 3 in May of 2019.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1895
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 2:42 am

Schedule now updated through October.
 
AC4500
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 5:55 am

It looks like SEA-FLL & SAN-FLL are increased to 1x daily on 11/1. Although I believe that SAN-FLL was operating daily pre-COVID.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1895
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 11:22 am

AC4500 wrote:
It looks like SEA-FLL & SAN-FLL are increased to 1x daily on 11/1. Although I believe that SAN-FLL was operating daily pre-COVID.


The schedule is only accurate through 10/31.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 6406
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 11:27 am

tphuang wrote:
Cboyle wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Looks like A220 operation will be expanded from BOS-TPA/FLL to also include BOS-AUS/BNA/LGA/MCO/RSW from September 8. They should have 3 A220s by the end of this quarter, so some of this A220 expansion will probably happen before then. Aside from LGA, the rest of the markets are all in the 900 to 1800 mile range. That seems to be a good sweet spot for A220 efficiency. Some additional markets that fit this criteria include BOS-DEN/MSY/DFW/IAH/ATL/MSP. I'd imagine that as demand continues to improve, it makes sense to move some of these A220 flights out of Florida and to those more competitive markets

I’m not seeing any of these on the A220 operations... when will this be uploaded?


I originally saw this on someone's tweet, but there is an article on this now.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-a ... ew-routes/

Again, I do think this current timeline is conservative. You may see A220 starting sooner on some of these routes.

Any guesses on when the next A220 base will open? 8 A220s by the end of this year should cover quite a bit of medium range business markets out of BOS. I would think NYC should be next in line. Maybe sometimes next year? There are a lot of routes like LGA/JFK-BNA or JFK-DFW/AUS/IAH/MSP that would make more sense with A220.

Just taking a look at flights count at their big stations on this first Sunday of May schedule.
JFK - 126 (DL 142, AA 41)
BOS - 90 (DL 64, AA 39)
EWR - 57 (UA 201)
FLL - 82 (NK 99, WN 47)
MCO - 47 (WN 112, NK 69, F9 52)
LAX - 31 (DL 140, AA 118, UA 79, AS 69, WN 53) would be 32 or 33 here if wasn't for a tug accident earlier.
SJU - 36
LGA - 7 (DL 107, AA 42, WN 16)

Anyhow, the final numbers don't look that different from when I last counted this up in March. Final count of 190 flights between JFK/EWR/LGA is probably only about 10 flights less than what they operated between these 3 in May of 2019.



Good point. Just to add The New York City distribution of flights is different than May 2019.

One other note looking at these numbers… They really arent in a great position in any of their hubs beyond Boston. But what I do find interesting are three hubs in particular:

JFK Why aren’t they making a run at passing Delta? They have consistently had fewer flights than Delta since the recovery started

FLL Why aren’t they making a run in spirit? It makes no sense. This is the spot to be in the country right now.

LAX Why aren’t they making a run at Southwest? Don’t get me wrong, this hub is a lost cause... but it would give them some footing.

In general, Being number two at your hub airports is never a good place to be. Being number four or five in a place like Orlando is a disaster. You’re talking about moving your headquarters there. How the hell do you let that happen with all the history you have there? Bizarre
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 4424
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 11:44 am

jfklganyc wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Cboyle wrote:
I’m not seeing any of these on the A220 operations... when will this be uploaded?


I originally saw this on someone's tweet, but there is an article on this now.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-a ... ew-routes/

Again, I do think this current timeline is conservative. You may see A220 starting sooner on some of these routes.

Any guesses on when the next A220 base will open? 8 A220s by the end of this year should cover quite a bit of medium range business markets out of BOS. I would think NYC should be next in line. Maybe sometimes next year? There are a lot of routes like LGA/JFK-BNA or JFK-DFW/AUS/IAH/MSP that would make more sense with A220.

Just taking a look at flights count at their big stations on this first Sunday of May schedule.
JFK - 126 (DL 142, AA 41)
BOS - 90 (DL 64, AA 39)
EWR - 57 (UA 201)
FLL - 82 (NK 99, WN 47)
MCO - 47 (WN 112, NK 69, F9 52)
LAX - 31 (DL 140, AA 118, UA 79, AS 69, WN 53) would be 32 or 33 here if wasn't for a tug accident earlier.
SJU - 36
LGA - 7 (DL 107, AA 42, WN 16)

Anyhow, the final numbers don't look that different from when I last counted this up in March. Final count of 190 flights between JFK/EWR/LGA is probably only about 10 flights less than what they operated between these 3 in May of 2019.



Good point. Just to add The New York City distribution of flights is different than May 2019.

One other note looking at these numbers… They really arent in a great position in any of their hubs beyond Boston. But what I do find interesting are three hubs in particular:

JFK Why aren’t they making a run at passing Delta? They have consistently had fewer flights than Delta since the recovery started

FLL Why aren’t they making a run in spirit? It makes no sense. This is the spot to be in the country right now.

LAX Why aren’t they making a run at Southwest? Don’t get me wrong, this hub is a lost cause... but it would give them some footing.

In general, Being number two at your hub airports is never a good place to be. Being number four or five in a place like Orlando is a disaster. You’re talking about moving your headquarters there. How the hell do you let that happen with all the history you have there? Bizarre


Some interesting points here. I think LAX is a problem for them full stop. Consolidating LGB into LAX was likely a mistake. No one really "owns" LAX and no one will. As to FLL, B6 likely can't compete with NK on cost, and so can't grow it as much as they could or would like to. I don't see B6 passing DL at JFK. DL has a much reduced schedule at JFK for now but it has the scale and the contracts to stay consistently ahead whenever traffic grows meaningfully beyond leisure travel. B6 isn't a major player in corporate contracts. That may change with the AA partnership. Way too early to tell.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1895
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 11:54 am

jfklganyc wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Cboyle wrote:
I’m not seeing any of these on the A220 operations... when will this be uploaded?


I originally saw this on someone's tweet, but there is an article on this now.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-a ... ew-routes/

Again, I do think this current timeline is conservative. You may see A220 starting sooner on some of these routes.

Any guesses on when the next A220 base will open? 8 A220s by the end of this year should cover quite a bit of medium range business markets out of BOS. I would think NYC should be next in line. Maybe sometimes next year? There are a lot of routes like LGA/JFK-BNA or JFK-DFW/AUS/IAH/MSP that would make more sense with A220.

Just taking a look at flights count at their big stations on this first Sunday of May schedule.
JFK - 126 (DL 142, AA 41)
BOS - 90 (DL 64, AA 39)
EWR - 57 (UA 201)
FLL - 82 (NK 99, WN 47)
MCO - 47 (WN 112, NK 69, F9 52)
LAX - 31 (DL 140, AA 118, UA 79, AS 69, WN 53) would be 32 or 33 here if wasn't for a tug accident earlier.
SJU - 36
LGA - 7 (DL 107, AA 42, WN 16)

Anyhow, the final numbers don't look that different from when I last counted this up in March. Final count of 190 flights between JFK/EWR/LGA is probably only about 10 flights less than what they operated between these 3 in May of 2019.



Good point. Just to add The New York City distribution of flights is different than May 2019.

One other note looking at these numbers… They really arent in a great position in any of their hubs beyond Boston. But what I do find interesting are three hubs in particular:

JFK Why aren’t they making a run at passing Delta? They have consistently had fewer flights than Delta since the recovery started

FLL Why aren’t they making a run in spirit? It makes no sense. This is the spot to be in the country right now.

LAX Why aren’t they making a run at Southwest? Don’t get me wrong, this hub is a lost cause... but it would give them some footing.

In general, Being number two at your hub airports is never a good place to be. Being number four or five in a place like Orlando is a disaster. You’re talking about moving your headquarters there. How the hell do you let that happen with all the history you have there? Bizarre


While they aren’t #1 in FLL and JFK is beyond me but as why they can’t pass WN at LAX seems to be pretty obvious. Their LAX expansion has not gone as smoothly as initially thought for sure. The West coast routes are struggling and have been as successful as those at EWR and other stations.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1394
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 1:08 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Cboyle wrote:
I’m not seeing any of these on the A220 operations... when will this be uploaded?


I originally saw this on someone's tweet, but there is an article on this now.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-a ... ew-routes/

Again, I do think this current timeline is conservative. You may see A220 starting sooner on some of these routes.

Any guesses on when the next A220 base will open? 8 A220s by the end of this year should cover quite a bit of medium range business markets out of BOS. I would think NYC should be next in line. Maybe sometimes next year? There are a lot of routes like LGA/JFK-BNA or JFK-DFW/AUS/IAH/MSP that would make more sense with A220.

Just taking a look at flights count at their big stations on this first Sunday of May schedule.
JFK - 126 (DL 142, AA 41)
BOS - 90 (DL 64, AA 39)
EWR - 57 (UA 201)
FLL - 82 (NK 99, WN 47)
MCO - 47 (WN 112, NK 69, F9 52)
LAX - 31 (DL 140, AA 118, UA 79, AS 69, WN 53) would be 32 or 33 here if wasn't for a tug accident earlier.
SJU - 36
LGA - 7 (DL 107, AA 42, WN 16)

Anyhow, the final numbers don't look that different from when I last counted this up in March. Final count of 190 flights between JFK/EWR/LGA is probably only about 10 flights less than what they operated between these 3 in May of 2019.



Good point. Just to add The New York City distribution of flights is different than May 2019.

One other note looking at these numbers… They really arent in a great position in any of their hubs beyond Boston. But what I do find interesting are three hubs in particular:

JFK Why aren’t they making a run at passing Delta? They have consistently had fewer flights than Delta since the recovery started

FLL Why aren’t they making a run in spirit? It makes no sense. This is the spot to be in the country right now.

LAX Why aren’t they making a run at Southwest? Don’t get me wrong, this hub is a lost cause... but it would give them some footing.

In general, Being number two at your hub airports is never a good place to be. Being number four or five in a place like Orlando is a disaster. You’re talking about moving your headquarters there. How the hell do you let that happen with all the history you have there? Bizarre

Re FLL, can they make a run at Spirit? There are lots of routes that Spirit can make work at FLL due to their business model that would be much harder for B6. Let’s not forget that B6 doesn’t fly to a lot of pretty large cities out of FLL that NK does to e.g. DEN, DFW, IAH. For B6 I am guessing they’d find it difficult going up against hub carriers at those airports whereas NK is less concerned as their passenger profile is different enough from those hub carriers that there would be a market for them. Also on the international front, NK’s fare structure allows it to be on routes like PTY, CAP, SAP, GUA, etc. that B6 might have a bit more trouble with as those markets aren’t exactly huge to FLL but at a low enough price, NK can generate sufficient traffic.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6409
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 3:42 pm

Taking a look at sizes of various stations in late September after this large cut.
JFK - 151 - I see AUS/RDU both at 3x daily, would be equal to the highs on both of these routes. ATL is down to 2x again. Short haul frequencies are still really down. BOS/BUF only at 3x. ROC/BTV/SYR/ORD are all 1x. Same with DFW/DTW/MSP/BNA/MSY. Looks like just low demand to these places. Transcon demand is better. I see 2x A321s on BUR + 4x weekly to ONT/SJC/SMF (both ONT/SJC on A321). 8 LAX, 4x SFO, 2x LAS/SEA/SAN (both LAS/SEA only have 1 mint flight). GEO/GYE are daily. GUA/LIR 5x weekly, SJO/ANU/BOG 4x weekly, Boi/BZN/FCA are gone after labour day. HYA/MVY/ACK/PWM all extended to end of October on summer level of frequencies (surprised to see that), PSP 4x weekly starting in mid October.

EWR - 62 - BOS only 1x, MVY/AKC sitll operational until Oct. SEA 4x weekly, 4x LAX, 2x SFO, SAN/LAS not on mint again

LGA - 14 - 2x BOS/DEN/FLL/MCO/ACK, 1x CHS/TPA/PBI/MVY

HPN - 10

Overall, the NYC stations in September see about the same # of flights as summer time. Normally, there is a big drop off in sep/oct, so this is good to see. More importantly, they are running about as many flights out of JFK/LGA/HPN as they did in 2019 at this point. EWR is up a lot. Most of the reductions are the short stuff.

BOS - 112 - I see FLL 5x (3 A220), TPA 3x (2 A220), RSW 4x (1 A220), BNA 2x (A220+E90), MCO 5x (A220+4 A321), AUS 2x(1 A220), LGA 2x (A220+E90). 10 A220 R/T. My guess is that they need 4 A220 to run that schedule.Aside from that, LAX 4x, SFO 5x, SAN/LAS 3x (2 mint), SEA 2x (1 mint), no BWI/BUR. ORD still only at 1 A320 + 1 E90. MSP/IAH both at 1 E90. ATL at 3 E90.

Once they get more comfortable with A220s, I really think they need to change their approach here. There is no reason to deploy them this much too Florida, when MSP/IAH/ORD/ATL are much tougher markets that are quite uneconomical for E90.

FLL - 74 - BUF/PIT/RIC gone, LAX 3x, SFO 2x. Looks like they are just not focusing here even considering Sep/Oct being slow season

LAX - 37 - BUF/CHS/MCO/RIC 4x weekly, BDL 6x weekly, JAX/RDU 5x weekluy, SJO 3x weekly, SEA gone. In general, about the same as summer schedule.

MCO - 44 - about same as summer. Again, they seem to put minimum effort here

RDU - 15 - AUS/RSW/JAX/SFO/TPA gone - I do think RSW/TPA are likely to come back in the winter time.

SFO - 18 - AUs gone, MCO 3x weekly, BDL 4x weekly

BDL - 13

SJU - 34

It seems to me they are running about the same number of flights in late September like they did in July. JFK might not be seeing an increase in the number of flights vs 2019, but a lot of the short haul stuff are heavily reduced and replaced by long VFR routes on A321. So, their capacity is up quite a bit. It does seem to me they will have quite a bit of spare capacity to add if they can find places to deploy their aircraft. For example, they are only scheduling in 44 mint R/T at the moment. That's fewer than summer time, despite receiving more A321LD. Either EWR-SAN/LAS gets mint flights again or they will add new mint routes or they will be more idle. I do expect more routes to be added to NYC for late summer and early Fall. It looks like Florida is getting less attention. Also, LAX is getting more love than I would've expected.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6406
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 3:49 pm

tphuang wrote:
Taking a look at sizes of various stations in late September after this large cut.
JFK - 151 - I see AUS/RDU both at 3x daily, would be equal to the highs on both of these routes. ATL is down to 2x again. Short haul frequencies are still really down. BOS/BUF only at 3x. ROC/BTV/SYR/ORD are all 1x. Same with DFW/DTW/MSP/BNA/MSY. Looks like just low demand to these places. Transcon demand is better. I see 2x A321s on BUR + 4x weekly to ONT/SJC/SMF (both ONT/SJC on A321). 8 LAX, 4x SFO, 2x LAS/SEA/SAN (both LAS/SEA only have 1 mint flight). GEO/GYE are daily. GUA/LIR 5x weekly, SJO/ANU/BOG 4x weekly, Boi/BZN/FCA are gone after labour day. HYA/MVY/ACK/PWM all extended to end of October on summer level of frequencies (surprised to see that), PSP 4x weekly starting in mid October.

EWR - 62 - BOS only 1x, MVY/AKC sitll operational until Oct. SEA 4x weekly, 4x LAX, 2x SFO, SAN/LAS not on mint again

LGA - 14 - 2x BOS/DEN/FLL/MCO/ACK, 1x CHS/TPA/PBI/MVY

HPN - 10

Overall, the NYC stations in September see about the same # of flights as summer time. Normally, there is a big drop off in sep/oct, so this is good to see. More importantly, they are running about as many flights out of JFK/LGA/HPN as they did in 2019 at this point. EWR is up a lot. Most of the reductions are the short stuff.

BOS - 112 - I see FLL 5x (3 A220), TPA 3x (2 A220), RSW 4x (1 A220), BNA 2x (A220+E90), MCO 5x (A220+4 A321), AUS 2x(1 A220), LGA 2x (A220+E90). 10 A220 R/T. My guess is that they need 4 A220 to run that schedule.Aside from that, LAX 4x, SFO 5x, SAN/LAS 3x (2 mint), SEA 2x (1 mint), no BWI/BUR. ORD still only at 1 A320 + 1 E90. MSP/IAH both at 1 E90. ATL at 3 E90.

Once they get more comfortable with A220s, I really think they need to change their approach here. There is no reason to deploy them this much too Florida, when MSP/IAH/ORD/ATL are much tougher markets that are quite uneconomical for E90.

FLL - 74 - BUF/PIT/RIC gone, LAX 3x, SFO 2x. Looks like they are just not focusing here even considering Sep/Oct being slow season

LAX - 37 - BUF/CHS/MCO/RIC 4x weekly, BDL 6x weekly, JAX/RDU 5x weekluy, SJO 3x weekly, SEA gone. In general, about the same as summer schedule.

MCO - 44 - about same as summer. Again, they seem to put minimum effort here

RDU - 15 - AUS/RSW/JAX/SFO/TPA gone - I do think RSW/TPA are likely to come back in the winter time.

SFO - 18 - AUs gone, MCO 3x weekly, BDL 4x weekly

BDL - 13

SJU - 34

It seems to me they are running about the same number of flights in late September like they did in July. JFK might not be seeing an increase in the number of flights vs 2019, but a lot of the short haul stuff are heavily reduced and replaced by long VFR routes on A321. So, their capacity is up quite a bit. It does seem to me they will have quite a bit of spare capacity to add if they can find places to deploy their aircraft. For example, they are only scheduling in 44 mint R/T at the moment. That's fewer than summer time, despite receiving more A321LD. Either EWR-SAN/LAS gets mint flights again or they will add new mint routes or they will be more idle. I do expect more routes to be added to NYC for late summer and early Fall. It looks like Florida is getting less attention. Also, LAX is getting more love than I would've expected.



Now I will show my age :)

Austin was 3 daily

RDU 5 daily

Many moons ago. Pre Boston
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 4:59 pm

wow, can believe they were at 5x on JFK-RDU before.

JFK - They have fewer flights a day than DL because they have fewer slots. I don't think it's a real problem right now since they have restored capacity almost everywhere. They can always fly more short haul stuff if slot constraint goes away. Longer term, they'd have to be sublease or buy 50 to 60 slots to reach the 230 to 240 flights a day that DL was operating out of JFK pre-COVID during peak days. The other possibility is if slot constraint goes away. it certainly helps them that DL has scaled down its T-4 project.

Here is their opportunity in NYC. It's time to add more of those short haul flights to feed all their transcon + international stuff. There is no reason they can't make a major run in the NYC corporate market now that they have access through AA's corporate sales team. I'd be very surprised if we don't get another NYC heavy route announcement for fall.

Re: FLL - I think they should be able to co-exist with NK there. Given NK's focus on FLL and their speed of expansion, they probably have surpassed B6 for good unless B6 just manages to secure more gates than NK in the medium term. The most obvious trade-off for B6 is to work out something with WN to sublease some of their gates. Until NYC buildup is a lot further along, there is just no resource for FLL. There are certain inherent strength that B6 has over NK out of FLL: transcon, northeast + international. there is high taxes to many Latam markets. NK simply can't undercut B6 in those type of markets. Keep in mind when they were trying to build FLL up, they managed to overcome WN in many markets where WN was larger. Which means B6 does really well on FLL point of sale. But as things stand, B6 is focused on NEA and NYC over this next year.

MCO - It looks like they are happy with running about 45 flights a day out of there right now. I'm sure that number with go up a little bit, but I don't see them recovering to pre-COVID size for a while. If they are planning a buildup here, it won't happen for several years.

LAX - consolidating LGB into LAX is a great thing. A split focus city situation where both station is around 20 flights a day is a disaster. They have more capacity scheduled in for LAX this summer than I would've expected several months ago. I think the big challenge for them is to secure enough real estate for a 70+ flight operation. They got some time before their planned expansion starts. They have enough flight to tell LAWA that they've lived up to their end of their bargain and should be allocated the additional space in somewhere not MSC. Having a meaningful presence in LAX is important to their network. I don't see any issues with where they are right now.
 
Abeam79
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 10, 2021 6:31 pm

tphuang wrote:
wow, can believe they were at 5x on JFK-RDU before.

JFK - They have fewer flights a day than DL because they have fewer slots. I don't think it's a real problem right now since they have restored capacity almost everywhere. They can always fly more short haul stuff if slot constraint goes away. Longer term, they'd have to be sublease or buy 50 to 60 slots to reach the 230 to 240 flights a day that DL was operating out of JFK pre-COVID during peak days. The other possibility is if slot constraint goes away. it certainly helps them that DL has scaled down its T-4 project.

Here is their opportunity in NYC. It's time to add more of those short haul flights to feed all their transcon + international stuff. There is no reason they can't make a major run in the NYC corporate market now that they have access through AA's corporate sales team. I'd be very surprised if we don't get another NYC heavy route announcement for fall.

Re: FLL - I think they should be able to co-exist with NK there. Given NK's focus on FLL and their speed of expansion, they probably have surpassed B6 for good unless B6 just manages to secure more gates than NK in the medium term. The most obvious trade-off for B6 is to work out something with WN to sublease some of their gates. Until NYC buildup is a lot further along, there is just no resource for FLL. There are certain inherent strength that B6 has over NK out of FLL: transcon, northeast + international. there is high taxes to many Latam markets. NK simply can't undercut B6 in those type of markets. Keep in mind when they were trying to build FLL up, they managed to overcome WN in many markets where WN was larger. Which means B6 does really well on FLL point of sale. But as things stand, B6 is focused on NEA and NYC over this next year.

MCO - It looks like they are happy with running about 45 flights a day out of there right now. I'm sure that number with go up a little bit, but I don't see them recovering to pre-COVID size for a while. If they are planning a buildup here, it won't happen for several years.

LAX - consolidating LGB into LAX is a great thing. A split focus city situation where both station is around 20 flights a day is a disaster. They have more capacity scheduled in for LAX this summer than I would've expected several months ago. I think the big challenge for them is to secure enough real estate for a 70+ flight operation. They got some time before their planned expansion starts. They have enough flight to tell LAWA that they've lived up to their end of their bargain and should be allocated the additional space in somewhere not MSC. Having a meaningful presence in LAX is important to their network. I don't see any issues with where they are right now.


This! Like I have mentioned before, much of the airline game is long term planning. Airlines ramping up can only move as fast as your assets allow and the momentum of ramping up is usually snails pace especially when it comes to gates/slots/ and aircraft deliveries. You have to plan long term, As far as FLL/South Florida area they now will be looking at growing MIA since its been performing well to supplement FLL focus city. Add that to FLL and B6 is poised to be larger in the near future in south Florida than NK. With fare options 2.0 B6 is able to compete much better with NK, which has rattled NK as you can tell cause they have pulled out of much of the northeast markets and some FLL markets B6 does well in. NK costs have been going up incrementally as well in the past few years and they are much more leveraged than B6 when it comes to owned assets. That over time makes you less nimble on how to manage your own costs.
LAX was a smart play and will produce what they want over time. They just opened up a few months ago, I don't know why people here are already sealing a fate of it. People have to understand the dynamics of airline business model. You're rarely if ever making money right off the bat especially when it comes to market buildups. Its all about longer term growth which they have said will come with MCO/FLL/LAX. NYC is a priority now and the NEA isn't even halfway to full affect.
 
hbernal1
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:51 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 11, 2021 4:23 am

Abeam79 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
wow, can believe they were at 5x on JFK-RDU before.

JFK - They have fewer flights a day than DL because they have fewer slots. I don't think it's a real problem right now since they have restored capacity almost everywhere. They can always fly more short haul stuff if slot constraint goes away. Longer term, they'd have to be sublease or buy 50 to 60 slots to reach the 230 to 240 flights a day that DL was operating out of JFK pre-COVID during peak days. The other possibility is if slot constraint goes away. it certainly helps them that DL has scaled down its T-4 project.

Here is their opportunity in NYC. It's time to add more of those short haul flights to feed all their transcon + international stuff. There is no reason they can't make a major run in the NYC corporate market now that they have access through AA's corporate sales team. I'd be very surprised if we don't get another NYC heavy route announcement for fall.

Re: FLL - I think they should be able to co-exist with NK there. Given NK's focus on FLL and their speed of expansion, they probably have surpassed B6 for good unless B6 just manages to secure more gates than NK in the medium term. The most obvious trade-off for B6 is to work out something with WN to sublease some of their gates. Until NYC buildup is a lot further along, there is just no resource for FLL. There are certain inherent strength that B6 has over NK out of FLL: transcon, northeast + international. there is high taxes to many Latam markets. NK simply can't undercut B6 in those type of markets. Keep in mind when they were trying to build FLL up, they managed to overcome WN in many markets where WN was larger. Which means B6 does really well on FLL point of sale. But as things stand, B6 is focused on NEA and NYC over this next year.

MCO - It looks like they are happy with running about 45 flights a day out of there right now. I'm sure that number with go up a little bit, but I don't see them recovering to pre-COVID size for a while. If they are planning a buildup here, it won't happen for several years.

LAX - consolidating LGB into LAX is a great thing. A split focus city situation where both station is around 20 flights a day is a disaster. They have more capacity scheduled in for LAX this summer than I would've expected several months ago. I think the big challenge for them is to secure enough real estate for a 70+ flight operation. They got some time before their planned expansion starts. They have enough flight to tell LAWA that they've lived up to their end of their bargain and should be allocated the additional space in somewhere not MSC. Having a meaningful presence in LAX is important to their network. I don't see any issues with where they are right now.


This! Like I have mentioned before, much of the airline game is long term planning. Airlines ramping up can only move as fast as your assets allow and the momentum of ramping up is usually snails pace especially when it comes to gates/slots/ and aircraft deliveries. You have to plan long term, As far as FLL/South Florida area they now will be looking at growing MIA since its been performing well to supplement FLL focus city. Add that to FLL and B6 is poised to be larger in the near future in south Florida than NK. With fare options 2.0 B6 is able to compete much better with NK, which has rattled NK as you can tell cause they have pulled out of much of the northeast markets and some FLL markets B6 does well in. NK costs have been going up incrementally as well in the past few years and they are much more leveraged than B6 when it comes to owned assets. That over time makes you less nimble on how to manage your own costs.
LAX was a smart play and will produce what they want over time. They just opened up a few months ago, I don't know why people here are already sealing a fate of it. People have to understand the dynamics of airline business model. You're rarely if ever making money right off the bat especially when it comes to market buildups. Its all about longer term growth which they have said will come with MCO/FLL/LAX. NYC is a priority now and the NEA isn't even halfway to full affect.

I agree that there needs to be some perspective when talking about LAX; consolidating at LAX was a great move if you consider how much of a disaster things were at LGB. B6 are at around 40 LAX flights in the summer and roughly sticking to that same schedule in the early fall. It's also important to remember that their LAX capacity is about on par (or slightly above) what B6 were flying when you combined LAX/LGB in 2019. 70-80 flights is B6's goal, sure, but for 2025. At the moment, B6's priority at LAX is making sure they're flying enough to show that the gates they're getting from LAWA are being put to good use.

I understand B6's LAX network is quite incomplete still: one or two major short-haul markets are still missing (like PHX/SMF, and eventually SEA will have to return), no ORD yet (which is a must-have from LAX), still not enough leisure/VFR markets from LAX (adding HNL/OGG/PVR/SAL would help with that), and some new transcon markets wouldn't hurt (IAD/PHL come to mind). But these will take time to add since the resources are (for good reason) going to NYC right now to get the ball rolling with the NEA. There's no good reason to already write off B6 as a failure at LAX.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 6406
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 11, 2021 10:45 am

RDU and CLT were at 5 flights, ORD 5 flights, IAD 4 flights, PWM 4 or 5 flights, BUF 10 flights, BTV ROC 4 Flights, SYR 3 flights...PIT RIC non stop.

People forget how much B6 has shrunk short haul at JFK as they opened Boston.

They also gave up 12 or so JFK slots to AA in 2009 or 10 to get access to DCA and an extra slot at HPN
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1394
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 11, 2021 1:32 pm

tphuang wrote:
wow, can believe they were at 5x on JFK-RDU before.

JFK - They have fewer flights a day than DL because they have fewer slots. I don't think it's a real problem right now since they have restored capacity almost everywhere. They can always fly more short haul stuff if slot constraint goes away. Longer term, they'd have to be sublease or buy 50 to 60 slots to reach the 230 to 240 flights a day that DL was operating out of JFK pre-COVID during peak days. The other possibility is if slot constraint goes away. it certainly helps them that DL has scaled down its T-4 project.

Here is their opportunity in NYC. It's time to add more of those short haul flights to feed all their transcon + international stuff. There is no reason they can't make a major run in the NYC corporate market now that they have access through AA's corporate sales team. I'd be very surprised if we don't get another NYC heavy route announcement for fall.

Re: FLL - I think they should be able to co-exist with NK there. Given NK's focus on FLL and their speed of expansion, they probably have surpassed B6 for good unless B6 just manages to secure more gates than NK in the medium term. The most obvious trade-off for B6 is to work out something with WN to sublease some of their gates. Until NYC buildup is a lot further along, there is just no resource for FLL. There are certain inherent strength that B6 has over NK out of FLL: transcon, northeast + international. there is high taxes to many Latam markets. NK simply can't undercut B6 in those type of markets. Keep in mind when they were trying to build FLL up, they managed to overcome WN in many markets where WN was larger. Which means B6 does really well on FLL point of sale. But as things stand, B6 is focused on NEA and NYC over this next year.

MCO - It looks like they are happy with running about 45 flights a day out of there right now. I'm sure that number with go up a little bit, but I don't see them recovering to pre-COVID size for a while. If they are planning a buildup here, it won't happen for several years.

LAX - consolidating LGB into LAX is a great thing. A split focus city situation where both station is around 20 flights a day is a disaster. They have more capacity scheduled in for LAX this summer than I would've expected several months ago. I think the big challenge for them is to secure enough real estate for a 70+ flight operation. They got some time before their planned expansion starts. They have enough flight to tell LAWA that they've lived up to their end of their bargain and should be allocated the additional space in somewhere not MSC. Having a meaningful presence in LAX is important to their network. I don't see any issues with where they are right now.

Re FLL, leasing gates from WN would be impractical. WN uses terminal 1 which is as far away from the terminal B6 uses as one can get. It’s also not connected landside or airside and would also likely require B6 to open new check in counters in terminal 1 to accommodate passengers on flights departing that terminal or alternatively have passengers walk back to terminal 1. It would also eliminate any practical connections for flights that would use that terminal.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6409
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 11, 2021 3:35 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
wow, can believe they were at 5x on JFK-RDU before.

JFK - They have fewer flights a day than DL because they have fewer slots. I don't think it's a real problem right now since they have restored capacity almost everywhere. They can always fly more short haul stuff if slot constraint goes away. Longer term, they'd have to be sublease or buy 50 to 60 slots to reach the 230 to 240 flights a day that DL was operating out of JFK pre-COVID during peak days. The other possibility is if slot constraint goes away. it certainly helps them that DL has scaled down its T-4 project.

Here is their opportunity in NYC. It's time to add more of those short haul flights to feed all their transcon + international stuff. There is no reason they can't make a major run in the NYC corporate market now that they have access through AA's corporate sales team. I'd be very surprised if we don't get another NYC heavy route announcement for fall.

Re: FLL - I think they should be able to co-exist with NK there. Given NK's focus on FLL and their speed of expansion, they probably have surpassed B6 for good unless B6 just manages to secure more gates than NK in the medium term. The most obvious trade-off for B6 is to work out something with WN to sublease some of their gates. Until NYC buildup is a lot further along, there is just no resource for FLL. There are certain inherent strength that B6 has over NK out of FLL: transcon, northeast + international. there is high taxes to many Latam markets. NK simply can't undercut B6 in those type of markets. Keep in mind when they were trying to build FLL up, they managed to overcome WN in many markets where WN was larger. Which means B6 does really well on FLL point of sale. But as things stand, B6 is focused on NEA and NYC over this next year.

MCO - It looks like they are happy with running about 45 flights a day out of there right now. I'm sure that number with go up a little bit, but I don't see them recovering to pre-COVID size for a while. If they are planning a buildup here, it won't happen for several years.

LAX - consolidating LGB into LAX is a great thing. A split focus city situation where both station is around 20 flights a day is a disaster. They have more capacity scheduled in for LAX this summer than I would've expected several months ago. I think the big challenge for them is to secure enough real estate for a 70+ flight operation. They got some time before their planned expansion starts. They have enough flight to tell LAWA that they've lived up to their end of their bargain and should be allocated the additional space in somewhere not MSC. Having a meaningful presence in LAX is important to their network. I don't see any issues with where they are right now.

Re FLL, leasing gates from WN would be impractical. WN uses terminal 1 which is as far away from the terminal B6 uses as one can get. It’s also not connected landside or airside and would also likely require B6 to open new check in counters in terminal 1 to accommodate passengers on flights departing that terminal or alternatively have passengers walk back to terminal 1. It would also eliminate any practical connections for flights that would use that terminal.


That's a fair point. Similarly, NK is also stuck with whatever space is available in its terminal. There is a limit to what it can grow to. It seems to me B6 should have a gate advantage over NK. As long as they don't relinquish that, it will give them enough space to expand to have more flights than NK. Of course, how they get to the 130+ flights a day is a different story. They have finally started adding more of those middle of the country markets. it would make sense for B6 to connect all those dots to FLL over time.
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 11, 2021 7:15 pm

Some additional interesting notes I saw from this week’s schedule updates.

Seems like very few July/August adjustments. There were a mix of increases/decreases. The few B6 routes that are seeing more capacity:
Looks like BOS-EWR is back to 2x daily for July/August. BOS-LAX got increased to 5x daily for July/Aug. BOS-SFO 5x through Oct. Doing pretty well here considering UA is only 3x for July. BOS-STI up to 3x and BOS-SDQ also 3x. Definitely doing their job as DR’s flag carrier in this update.
EWR-FLL bumped to 5x for Sep. EWR-ACK/MVY seeing more capacity in Sep/Oct, originally finishing after Labor Day. Why are they not trying EWR-PWM?
EWR-SDQ/STI up to 4x daily in Sep/Oct and EWR-SJU up to 3x. EWR-TPA back to 3x for Sep/Oct.
FLL-SDQ also up to 2x.
JFK-AUA seeing 3x in winter month, JFK-CHS seeing 3x all the way through Oct. JFK-IAH remain 2x through Oct. JFK-PHX now 2x through Oct. JFK-PUJ 2x through Oct. JFK-SFO bumped to 5x in July/Aug, but still 4x Sep/Oct. The short stuff continues to get cut out of JFK and the longer stuff see more capacity.

FLL-BUF/GCM/PIT/POS/PSP all gone until Oct

Most of AS’s transcon cuts from summer have already been extended into September. That’s working out pretty well for B6 here. Especially the JFK/EWR/BOS transcon stuff.

I see that AM cut all MTY routes. Maybe this is a VFR route B6 could try?

F9 cut EWR-CUN out until November. Really not sure why B6 can do better than 1x here.

NK’s early BOS/EWR cuts for July continue to be good news for B6
 
hbernal1
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:51 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 11, 2021 9:01 pm

tphuang wrote:
Some additional interesting notes I saw from this week’s schedule updates.

Seems like very few July/August adjustments. There were a mix of increases/decreases. The few B6 routes that are seeing more capacity:
Looks like BOS-EWR is back to 2x daily for July/August. BOS-LAX got increased to 5x daily for July/Aug. BOS-SFO 5x through Oct. Doing pretty well here considering UA is only 3x for July. BOS-STI up to 3x and BOS-SDQ also 3x. Definitely doing their job as DR’s flag carrier in this update.
EWR-FLL bumped to 5x for Sep. EWR-ACK/MVY seeing more capacity in Sep/Oct, originally finishing after Labor Day. Why are they not trying EWR-PWM?
EWR-SDQ/STI up to 4x daily in Sep/Oct and EWR-SJU up to 3x. EWR-TPA back to 3x for Sep/Oct.
FLL-SDQ also up to 2x.
JFK-AUA seeing 3x in winter month, JFK-CHS seeing 3x all the way through Oct. JFK-IAH remain 2x through Oct. JFK-PHX now 2x through Oct. JFK-PUJ 2x through Oct. JFK-SFO bumped to 5x in July/Aug, but still 4x Sep/Oct. The short stuff continues to get cut out of JFK and the longer stuff see more capacity.

FLL-BUF/GCM/PIT/POS/PSP all gone until Oct

Most of AS’s transcon cuts from summer have already been extended into September. That’s working out pretty well for B6 here. Especially the JFK/EWR/BOS transcon stuff.

I see that AM cut all MTY routes. Maybe this is a VFR route B6 could try?

F9 cut EWR-CUN out until November. Really not sure why B6 can do better than 1x here.

NK’s early BOS/EWR cuts for July continue to be good news for B6

It's pretty surprising a lot of the transcon demand has come back so quickly, especially the transcons to SFO. Do we have data on top 10/bottom 10 routes for April yet?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1895
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 11, 2021 9:17 pm

Where you see F9 cut EWR-CUN? Also, NK left EWR a bit higher then normal months and has more seats on EWR-FLL/MCO/ATL/BOS then B6.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6409
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 11, 2021 11:11 pm

T-100 data is probably only up until February at this point. I haven't downloaded it yet. I think March to May will be the most interesting month to look at since that's when they brought back most of the capacity.

A couple of other item of note:
I see DL cutting JFK-SAT for Aug/Sep. Would be interesting to see if B6 operates this route in October and DL does not. I doubt we will see that, but who knows. I also see DL cutting JFK-IAH for Aug/Sep. Maybe B6 will never have to face DL competition here.

Further cuts from BW on JFK/FLL-KIN. Maybe B6 can run BW off these routes eventually.

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Where you see F9 cut EWR-CUN? Also, NK left EWR a bit higher then normal months and has more seats on EWR-FLL/MCO/ATL/BOS then B6.


Looks like F9 cut EWR-CUN from Aug 10 until Nov 18. As for NK, that's just their initial July cut. They have been making further cuts closer in. For example, last month, they made one cut around this week and then another cut the week after and another cut 2 weeks after that. Maybe they won't be doing that this time around. But of the routes they did cut completely for July this time around, almost 1/3 of them involved BOS or EWR.

Jetblue's July/August schedule is probably quite firm at this point. I see more additions in July/Aug than cuts.
 
JetBlueCLT
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:55 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 12:36 am

jfklganyc wrote:
RDU and CLT were at 5 flights, ORD 5 flights, IAD 4 flights, PWM 4 or 5 flights, BUF 10 flights, BTV ROC 4 Flights, SYR 3 flights...PIT RIC non stop.

People forget how much B6 has shrunk short haul at JFK as they opened Boston.

They also gave up 12 or so JFK slots to AA in 2009 or 10 to get access to DCA and an extra slot at HPN


Not only that, 2 of the 5 JFK-CLT flights were A320s at one point.

It’s still a travesty to me that B6 discontinued JFK-CLT.
Pittsburgh Penguins, Steelers, Pirates and Charlotte Hornets Fan
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1394
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 12:48 am

tphuang wrote:
T-100 data is probably only up until February at this point. I haven't downloaded it yet. I think March to May will be the most interesting month to look at since that's when they brought back most of the capacity.

A couple of other item of note:
I see DL cutting JFK-SAT for Aug/Sep. Would be interesting to see if B6 operates this route in October and DL does not. I doubt we will see that, but who knows. I also see DL cutting JFK-IAH for Aug/Sep. Maybe B6 will never have to face DL competition here.

Further cuts from BW on JFK/FLL-KIN. Maybe B6 can run BW off these routes eventually.

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Where you see F9 cut EWR-CUN? Also, NK left EWR a bit higher then normal months and has more seats on EWR-FLL/MCO/ATL/BOS then B6.


Looks like F9 cut EWR-CUN from Aug 10 until Nov 18. As for NK, that's just their initial July cut. They have been making further cuts closer in. For example, last month, they made one cut around this week and then another cut the week after and another cut 2 weeks after that. Maybe they won't be doing that this time around. But of the routes they did cut completely for July this time around, almost 1/3 of them involved BOS or EWR.

Jetblue's July/August schedule is probably quite firm at this point. I see more additions in July/Aug than cuts.


I believe BW has already dropped FLL-KIN. It's no longer bookable on their website and they haven't flown it since the pandemic shutdown.
 
Abeam79
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 1:32 am

I doubt NK will stay on EWR-BOS. Heard the loads/yields were abysmal for them.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 6406
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 1:10 pm

Abeam79 wrote:
I doubt NK will stay on EWR-BOS. Heard the loads/yields were abysmal for them.



Short haul business route with zero traffic right now
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1895
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 1:51 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
I doubt NK will stay on EWR-BOS. Heard the loads/yields were abysmal for them.



Short haul business route with zero traffic right now


Those B6 EWR-BOS flights have been pretty full recently.

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