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trueblew
Posts: 315
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:08 pm

tphuang wrote:
trueblew wrote:
Blueballs wrote:
You’re being a company apologist again!!! The operation has been worse than 2017. My flight was delayed over 30 hrs last week. I can’t even commute on our flights anymore because of how unreliable we’ve become. A certain COO should be held accountable but she won’t be.


It is quite embarrassing for B6 how poorly run the operation is. During Covid there was such obvious and widespread normalization of deviance with respect to operational issues (not safety, I can't speak to that from my limited perspective) that it was also obvious when things ramped up (i.e., now) that the house of cards would come crashing down. The COO is certainly responsible in the end.

From speaking to employees I get the impression that since the recent ramp up their management has tightened the screws and wielded sticks and threats instead of carrots and incentives. You can see the burnout on the employees' faces. I'll be taking other airlines this summer.


To be fair, if you look around at different airline threads on a.net (aside from maybe United), every airlines' employees are making the same complaints.


Indeed, even Southwest. But the translation to poor operational performance metrics seems to be most acute at B6. Sure, Delta has had three(?) major MAJOR inexcusable meltdowns recently but they seem to clean them up within a few days and not weeks.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6721
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:23 pm

trueblew wrote:
tphuang wrote:
trueblew wrote:

It is quite embarrassing for B6 how poorly run the operation is. During Covid there was such obvious and widespread normalization of deviance with respect to operational issues (not safety, I can't speak to that from my limited perspective) that it was also obvious when things ramped up (i.e., now) that the house of cards would come crashing down. The COO is certainly responsible in the end.

From speaking to employees I get the impression that since the recent ramp up their management has tightened the screws and wielded sticks and threats instead of carrots and incentives. You can see the burnout on the employees' faces. I'll be taking other airlines this summer.


To be fair, if you look around at different airline threads on a.net (aside from maybe United), every airlines' employees are making the same complaints.


Indeed, even Southwest. But the translation to poor operational performance metrics seems to be most acute at B6. Sure, Delta has had three(?) major MAJOR inexcusable meltdowns recently but they seem to clean them up within a few days and not weeks.


It seems to me that DL got their meltdown sorted out by running a much smaller schedule than they originally planned (they are down close to 30% vs 2019, had originally planned to be down 20%). AA and WN both have suffered more recently due to trying to run a schedule that's more than what they can handle. It seems like B6 is dealing with the same issue here. They are flying more out of NYC this summer than they ever have. And then we you factor in a hurricane and their typical incompetence in operations, this is what you get. Unless they proactively cut back on their schedule (which I don't see happening), this is going to persist for a while.

They are going to need to hire a lot of people to catch up on the ramp up in operation.

I will leave it here.
 
Leftseatpusher
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:25 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:31 pm

trueblew wrote:
Blueballs wrote:
catiii wrote:

Factually inaccurate. The out of service count was in the mid single digits today. If you’re going to criticize, be factual.

Oh also, the multiple GDPs and ground stops in the northeast today had nothing to do with anything.

You’re being a company apologist again!!! The operation has been worse than 2017. My flight was delayed over 30 hrs last week. I can’t even commute on our flights anymore because of how unreliable we’ve become. A certain COO should be held accountable but she won’t be.


It is quite embarrassing for B6 how poorly run the operation is. During Covid there was such obvious and widespread normalization of deviance with respect to operational issues (not safety, I can't speak to that from my limited perspective) that it was also obvious when things ramped up (i.e., now) that the house of cards would come crashing down. The COO is certainly responsible in the end.

From speaking to employees I get the impression that since the recent ramp up their management has tightened the screws and wielded sticks and threats instead of carrots and incentives. You can see the burnout on the employees' faces. I'll be taking other airlines this summer.


Good riddance, but chances are no one else would take you anyways.
 
StinkyPinky
Posts: 86
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:13 pm

Beginning today, B6 will start using some TBIT West gates to alleviate some of the gate constraints in T5. Wonder if B6 will have long term split operations or eventually be pushed out to TBIT West all together.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:37 pm

To add to this, EWR has been a complete mess for B6. Today it was hard to find a single flight that hadn’t been delayed. I’ll give them credit, they are putting their all in in effort to not cancel them.

EWR has been packed, most of the domestic stuff seems to be completely full. Thank goodness, B6 wasn’t cheap and decided to double their counter space.
 
StinkyPinky
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:03 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:45 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
To add to this, EWR has been a complete mess for B6. Today it was hard to find a single flight that hadn’t been delayed. I’ll give them credit, they are putting their all in in effort to not cancel them.

EWR has been packed, most of the domestic stuff seems to be completely full. Thank goodness, B6 wasn’t cheap and decided to double their counter space.


But at some point, you need to cancel... there are flights that have been delayed 5 hours... 12 hours, even 22 hours. JB even sends out emails informing passengers their flight is delayed and that they are "working hard to reduce the this delay so we ask that you still arrive at the airport for your original departure time." Its insane to ask that and put their passengers through this.
 
speedbird2263
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:07 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:52 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
dcajet wrote:
jetBlue begins route proving and familiarization between JFK and LHR tonight. Delayed, par for the course at JFK....

Image



It’s not par for the course at JFK, it is par for the course at B6.

JFK is still running a fraction of its flights


B6, on the other hand, is running a garbage operation held together by shoe string, bubble gum, and overworked employees.

They have been in a rolling IROP since the beginning of July with 15 plus aircraft out of service for MX everyday


I’d say this is a spot on observation except I’d go back to maybe even since the end of May.
 
trueblew
Posts: 315
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:58 pm

Leftseatpusher wrote:
trueblew wrote:
Blueballs wrote:
You’re being a company apologist again!!! The operation has been worse than 2017. My flight was delayed over 30 hrs last week. I can’t even commute on our flights anymore because of how unreliable we’ve become. A certain COO should be held accountable but she won’t be.


It is quite embarrassing for B6 how poorly run the operation is. During Covid there was such obvious and widespread normalization of deviance with respect to operational issues (not safety, I can't speak to that from my limited perspective) that it was also obvious when things ramped up (i.e., now) that the house of cards would come crashing down. The COO is certainly responsible in the end.

From speaking to employees I get the impression that since the recent ramp up their management has tightened the screws and wielded sticks and threats instead of carrots and incentives. You can see the burnout on the employees' faces. I'll be taking other airlines this summer.


Good riddance, but chances are no one else would take you anyways.


Beg your pardon? Calling out gross mismanagement at one airline means "chances are" other airlines won't take my money? And, "good riddance"? Are you a B6 employee?
 
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TheLunchbox
Posts: 120
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:16 pm

Yawn. Take it out of this thread, jetBlue haters. It's the usual suspects spewing nonsensical fantasies about what they think is the problem. I don't know. You don't know. Let's see if they can correct whatever the issue is but even if they do, you'll still throw shade.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6721
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:38 pm

StinkyPinky wrote:
Beginning today, B6 will start using some TBIT West gates to alleviate some of the gate constraints in T5. Wonder if B6 will have long term split operations or eventually be pushed out to TBIT West all together.


for both departures and arrivals? Departures out of TBIT west is really bad. At least from what I can see out of flighttstats thus far, it's T5 for everything. Will keep an eye on this. NK is also ramping up their operation at LAX and they got one more gate, so T5 is probably overly packed at this point.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:51 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
To add to this, EWR has been a complete mess for B6. Today it was hard to find a single flight that hadn’t been delayed. I’ll give them credit, they are putting their all in in effort to not cancel them.

EWR has been packed, most of the domestic stuff seems to be completely full. Thank goodness, B6 wasn’t cheap and decided to double their counter space.



EWR is its own story. They are in a behind the scenes race for 10-15 gates in the new terminal.

UA isnt happy. But the Port has obligations to its JFK darling as well.

A use it or lose it mentality is driving the balls to the wall operation at EWR. This will continue.

All from internal talk btw
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1994
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:04 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
To add to this, EWR has been a complete mess for B6. Today it was hard to find a single flight that hadn’t been delayed. I’ll give them credit, they are putting their all in in effort to not cancel them.

EWR has been packed, most of the domestic stuff seems to be completely full. Thank goodness, B6 wasn’t cheap and decided to double their counter space.



EWR is its own story. They are in a behind the scenes race for 10-15 gates in the new terminal.

UA isnt happy. But the Port has obligations to its JFK darling as well.

A use it or lose it mentality is driving the balls to the wall operation at EWR. This will continue.

All from internal talk btw


They’re trying to get more then 10 gates? Is that even realistic at this point?

Why isn’t UA happy with the 12 they’re getting?

B6 is gonna have to boost that schedule up to 80 flights a day come October if they don’t want to lose those slots.
 
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STT757
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:11 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
To add to this, EWR has been a complete mess for B6. Today it was hard to find a single flight that hadn’t been delayed. I’ll give them credit, they are putting their all in in effort to not cancel them.

EWR has been packed, most of the domestic stuff seems to be completely full. Thank goodness, B6 wasn’t cheap and decided to double their counter space.



EWR is its own story. They are in a behind the scenes race for 10-15 gates in the new terminal.

UA isnt happy. But the Port has obligations to its JFK darling as well.

A use it or lose it mentality is driving the balls to the wall operation at EWR. This will continue.

All from internal talk btw


Give B6 and UA 12 gates each. AA, AS, DL, AC can split the rest.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6721
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:19 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
To add to this, EWR has been a complete mess for B6. Today it was hard to find a single flight that hadn’t been delayed. I’ll give them credit, they are putting their all in in effort to not cancel them.

EWR has been packed, most of the domestic stuff seems to be completely full. Thank goodness, B6 wasn’t cheap and decided to double their counter space.



EWR is its own story. They are in a behind the scenes race for 10-15 gates in the new terminal.

UA isnt happy. But the Port has obligations to its JFK darling as well.

A use it or lose it mentality is driving the balls to the wall operation at EWR. This will continue.

All from internal talk btw


I've heard from a source that Kirby expects B6 will be forced to give up all the additional flying it has picked up at EWR during COVID and that they (UA) will be forced out of JFK. I'd put that down as very unlikely, since all the international airlines and some domestic ones (AA/DL/AS) are flying much less than pre-COVID. And even pre-COVID, you could add flights outside of the peak hours.

Even so, I'm sure UA is working on ways to force B6/NK to give up some of the additional flying they've picked up. That's why I think they've been telling everyone that they will operate 430 flights in November when slot waiver goes away. That's why they've been telling their crew members all along to not worry about B6 at EWR.

B6 needs to keep operating as many flights as PA will allow if it wants to keep up its presence at EWR.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:36 pm

tphuang wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
To add to this, EWR has been a complete mess for B6. Today it was hard to find a single flight that hadn’t been delayed. I’ll give them credit, they are putting their all in in effort to not cancel them.

EWR has been packed, most of the domestic stuff seems to be completely full. Thank goodness, B6 wasn’t cheap and decided to double their counter space.



EWR is its own story. They are in a behind the scenes race for 10-15 gates in the new terminal.

UA isnt happy. But the Port has obligations to its JFK darling as well.

A use it or lose it mentality is driving the balls to the wall operation at EWR. This will continue.

All from internal talk btw


I've heard from a source that Kirby expects B6 will be forced to give up all the additional flying it has picked up at EWR during COVID and that they (UA) will be forced out of JFK. I'd put that down as very unlikely, since all the international airlines and some domestic ones (AA/DL/AS) are flying much less than pre-COVID. And even pre-COVID, you could add flights outside of the peak hours.

Even so, I'm sure UA is working on ways to force B6/NK to give up some of the additional flying they've picked up. That's why I think they've been telling everyone that they will operate 430 flights in November when slot waiver goes away. That's why they've been telling their crew members all along to not worry about B6 at EWR.

B6 needs to keep operating as many flights as PA will allow if it wants to keep up its presence at EWR.


There is nothing to give up at EWR. No slots.

B6 saw lots of empty runway and gates…and pounced.

Smart move.

With 10 gates now in hand, they are free to operate the flights that the gates can handle.

UA can add flights from their gates.
 
speedbird2263
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:54 pm

With all the emphasis on new flying, especially as it pertains to the NEA, does this put B6 back in the position pre-COVID of not having enough aircraft? I mean at one point they were so desperate they considered operating the 4 leased 321s without a proper B6 interior. Now it seems they’re kinda back in a similar situation( not helped by anemic deliveries) however with additional shortages to include manpower in just about every department.
 
mcdoogel
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:51 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:56 pm

StinkyPinky wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
To add to this, EWR has been a complete mess for B6. Today it was hard to find a single flight that hadn’t been delayed. I’ll give them credit, they are putting their all in in effort to not cancel them.

EWR has been packed, most of the domestic stuff seems to be completely full. Thank goodness, B6 wasn’t cheap and decided to double their counter space.


But at some point, you need to cancel... there are flights that have been delayed 5 hours... 12 hours, even 22 hours. JB even sends out emails informing passengers their flight is delayed and that they are "working hard to reduce the this delay so we ask that you still arrive at the airport for your original departure time." Its insane to ask that and put their passengers through this.


I heard from a friend that they delayed her flight from EWR 5 hours until 2:00AM promising it would leave every hour or so , and then finally conceding that they could not find a pilot. I do not view this as acceptable behavior to just lie outright, and delay until there are no other options for people because it is too late to do anything. They cancelled the flight hour 6 and gave nothing (no hotel, no taxi), she left and was told to show up 24 hours later for another attempt at a late night flight.

This is something I except for AA not B6.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1994
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:12 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
tphuang wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


EWR is its own story. They are in a behind the scenes race for 10-15 gates in the new terminal.

UA isnt happy. But the Port has obligations to its JFK darling as well.

A use it or lose it mentality is driving the balls to the wall operation at EWR. This will continue.

All from internal talk btw


I've heard from a source that Kirby expects B6 will be forced to give up all the additional flying it has picked up at EWR during COVID and that they (UA) will be forced out of JFK. I'd put that down as very unlikely, since all the international airlines and some domestic ones (AA/DL/AS) are flying much less than pre-COVID. And even pre-COVID, you could add flights outside of the peak hours.

Even so, I'm sure UA is working on ways to force B6/NK to give up some of the additional flying they've picked up. That's why I think they've been telling everyone that they will operate 430 flights in November when slot waiver goes away. That's why they've been telling their crew members all along to not worry about B6 at EWR.

B6 needs to keep operating as many flights as PA will allow if it wants to keep up its presence at EWR.


There is nothing to give up at EWR. No slots.

B6 saw lots of empty runway and gates…and pounced.

Smart move.

With 10 gates now in hand, they are free to operate the flights that the gates can handle.

UA can add flights from their gates.


Is the EWR flying at least doing well for B6? I know UA is operating at a 93% LF for the hub this week.
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:51 pm

speedbird2263 wrote:
With all the emphasis on new flying, especially as it pertains to the NEA, does this put B6 back in the position pre-COVID of not having enough aircraft? I mean at one point they were so desperate they considered operating the 4 leased 321s without a proper B6 interior. Now it seems they’re kinda back in a similar situation( not helped by anemic deliveries) however with additional shortages to include manpower in just about every department.

That’s correct. If they had more planes, crews, and everything else that goes along to support that, they’d be deploying it. The problem is twofold. They are hiring pilots and FAs as fast as they can. Related, they just had close to 50 FAs quit at once in a coordinated effort because they were getting ridden so hard, largely because they are short-staffed. Some pilots are also leaving for legacies now that legacy hiring has resumed in earnest. Middle mgmt and senior mgmt also seem to be jumping ship at higher than normal rates as well. And business partners (catering, among others), are also short-staffed, also affecting the operation.

More in the weeds on the pilot side, during covid, all the pilots who could hold it bid to the A320 in a displacement bid caused by the LGB-LAX switch. It’s always been that newhires went to both 190 and 320, because there were vacancies in both. It used to be a 2 year seat lock. It’s now 1. The vacancies were often cyclical, and ensured an even future flow of vacancies in each plane. And until the contract a few years ago, pay was so close that it didn’t matter which plane you were on the first couple/few years. Now after year 1, the bus pays a lot more, driving pilots to want to switch earlier. Also the 190 flying gets boring. During covid that 1 year lock expired (and there was a displacement, which also affected things) with no additional influx or vacancies to restart seatlocks, and hiring stopped, so now on all the recent bids there are only 190 vacancies, so newhires can essentially only go to the 190. There also used to be 3 190 sims. There are only 2 now. It used to work when there were newhire vacancies on both planes. Now they are trying to hire 600 a year, but the 2x 190 sims aren’t adequate to support that many newhire 190 training events (plus upgrades and recurrent). There are attempts to get sim time elsewhere (DFW CAE I’ve heard), and whether or not that happens will dictate pilot hiring numbers for the next 12 (at least) months. Until enough growth happens where 320/220 vacancies go to newhires again, this problem will persist. B6 mgmt really screwed themselves by going cheap on the 190 rates. Especially since it was supposed to be a dying fleet anyway. They will pay more in training events and training churn than they would had they left 190 rates at 90% of bus rates.

The next problem, and perhaps a larger one, is the capex required to get more planes. So much debt was taken on in the last 17 months, it makes it really difficult for them to just be able to take on a lot more buying up more aircraft. Apparently additional A220-300 delivery slots from mobile are non-existent, and they can’t take any additional 321s from airbus anytime soon either. So, perhaps they can find a decent deal on some used planes, but they don’t seem to be inclined to run up more debt. I’m not sure I agree with that decision given what every other airline (even those with more debt) seems to be doing ordering a bunch of planes. They seem more focused on repairing the balance sheet than adding planes/capacity.

If you look around the parking areas, namely JFK/BOS, and the 10ish 320s in MZJ, you can see a lot of idle planes. Mx also is an issue—I think the extended desert sit caused some issues for the planes. Sounds like the 190s especially are having a ton of issues. They are still only flying something like 85-90% of their 2019 capacity as far as flight hours go, despite having more airframes and at this point more pilots. So from an airframe standpoint, I think they could boost their capacity some of they were so inclined and had the staffing. It’s the summer 2022-2023 capacity I’m not so sure about. My guess is they will want it to be larger than they will be able to support with as few planes as they have coming.
 
FlyEndeavorAir
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:02 pm

B6 operation at BDL yesterday was abysmal, LAX-BDL pushed back to next day which in turn delayed BDL-MCO (parents were on that flight) from the morning until early evening with the afternoon MCO flight being pushed back to later at night, and downline delays as well.

I know many airlines are having issues right now, but my recent AA and American Eagle flights were all on time or close to schedule, even with massive weather.

Come on B6, get your act together.
 
catiii
Posts: 3889
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:07 pm

Blueballs wrote:
catiii wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


It’s not par for the course at JFK, it is par for the course at B6.

JFK is still running a fraction of its flights


B6, on the other hand, is running a garbage operation held together by shoe string, bubble gum, and overworked employees.

They have been in a rolling IROP since the beginning of July with 15 plus aircraft out of service for MX everyday


Factually inaccurate. The out of service count was in the mid single digits today. If you’re going to criticize, be factual.

Oh also, the multiple GDPs and ground stops in the northeast today had nothing to do with anything.

You’re being a company apologist again!!! The operation has been worse than 2017. My flight was delayed over 30 hrs last week. I can’t even commute on our flights anymore because of how unreliable we’ve become. A certain COO should be held accountable but she won’t be.


Hey facts are facts. The out of service count hasnt been “15 plus” for every day in July. The metrics when normalized dont show it to be worse than 2019, 18, or 17.

You cant commute? Too bad. Move into the base then. Some how the rest of us commute just fine. The airline doesnt exist to help you commute.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1994
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:20 pm

catiii wrote:
Blueballs wrote:
catiii wrote:

Factually inaccurate. The out of service count was in the mid single digits today. If you’re going to criticize, be factual.

Oh also, the multiple GDPs and ground stops in the northeast today had nothing to do with anything.

You’re being a company apologist again!!! The operation has been worse than 2017. My flight was delayed over 30 hrs last week. I can’t even commute on our flights anymore because of how unreliable we’ve become. A certain COO should be held accountable but she won’t be.


Hey facts are facts. The out of service count hasnt been “15 plus” for every day in July. The metrics when normalized dont show it to be worse than 2019, 18, or 17.

You cant commute? Too bad. Move into the base then. Some how the rest of us commute just fine. The airline doesnt exist to help you commute.


I’m not really sure how your defending B6 when people are simply calling them out based on facts.

B6’s on time flight count has to be abysmal at this point.
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:20 pm

FlyEndeavorAir wrote:
B6 operation at BDL yesterday was abysmal, LAX-BDL pushed back to next day which in turn delayed BDL-MCO (parents were on that flight) from the morning until early evening with the afternoon MCO flight being pushed back to later at night, and downline delays as well.

I know many airlines are having issues right now, but my recent AA and American Eagle flights were all on time or close to schedule, even with massive weather.

Come on B6, get your act together.

Last week I was relying on a ride to work on AA with a WN flight as a backup. Both were over 4 hours delayed and would have missed my connecting flight, so I had to go on my plan C flight on a different route. It’s not just B6, but B6 is probably the worst for on time performance right now.
 
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TheLunchbox
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:38 am

Shhhh quiet the jetBlue naysayers don't want anyone to point out other airlines are having operational issues. ;)

It's been widely known they're least of the on-time airlines so what's everyone's point? In the past month alone it's been weather in the Northeast or Florida or both at the same time absolutely wrecking them. Out of service count is higher than normal you got a point there. I don't know what the issue is. Maybe staffing? Go with whatever you want because it's probably a few reasons and all valid. Let them iron out the kinks, hire more, and get through summer peak like everyone else. But go ahead and kick them while they're down. It's the cool thing to do these days.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:26 am

Just want to point out the on time rate for July thus far…

29%

Stop talking about other airlines, naysayers, Northeast, Florida and Metrics.

29%

That is sh*t

End of story.
 
trueblew
Posts: 315
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:36 am

TheLunchbox wrote:
Shhhh quiet the jetBlue naysayers don't want anyone to point out other airlines are having operational issues. ;)

It's been widely known they're least of the on-time airlines so what's everyone's point? In the past month alone it's been weather in the Northeast or Florida or both at the same time absolutely wrecking them. Out of service count is higher than normal you got a point there. I don't know what the issue is. Maybe staffing? Go with whatever you want because it's probably a few reasons and all valid. Let them iron out the kinks, hire more, and get through summer peak like everyone else. But go ahead and kick them while they're down. It's the cool thing to do these days.


You're right. Geraghty and her team are doing a bang up job on the operational front.
 
tphuang
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Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:45 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I've heard from a source that Kirby expects B6 will be forced to give up all the additional flying it has picked up at EWR during COVID and that they (UA) will be forced out of JFK. I'd put that down as very unlikely, since all the international airlines and some domestic ones (AA/DL/AS) are flying much less than pre-COVID. And even pre-COVID, you could add flights outside of the peak hours.

Even so, I'm sure UA is working on ways to force B6/NK to give up some of the additional flying they've picked up. That's why I think they've been telling everyone that they will operate 430 flights in November when slot waiver goes away. That's why they've been telling their crew members all along to not worry about B6 at EWR.

B6 needs to keep operating as many flights as PA will allow if it wants to keep up its presence at EWR.


There is nothing to give up at EWR. No slots.

B6 saw lots of empty runway and gates…and pounced.

Smart move.

With 10 gates now in hand, they are free to operate the flights that the gates can handle.

UA can add flights from their gates.


Is the EWR flying at least doing well for B6? I know UA is operating at a 93% LF for the hub this week.


If I had to guess, some of the routes probably weren't performing that well in the beginning (like EWR-SFO and EWR-CHS), but they were one of the few places where B6 could deploy those aircraft. I'd imagine they are probably performing a lot better now. They've always done pretty well out of EWR. It'd be good if they can get more than 10 gates. Then the issue will be whether or not they have enough aircraft and frontline crew members. Challenges not unique to B6, but hopefully they can work it out.

JoseSalazar wrote:
More in the weeds on the pilot side, during covid, all the pilots who could hold it bid to the A320 in a displacement bid caused by the LGB-LAX switch. It’s always been that newhires went to both 190 and 320, because there were vacancies in both. It used to be a 2 year seat lock. It’s now 1. The vacancies were often cyclical, and ensured an even future flow of vacancies in each plane. And until the contract a few years ago, pay was so close that it didn’t matter which plane you were on the first couple/few years. Now after year 1, the bus pays a lot more, driving pilots to want to switch earlier. Also the 190 flying gets boring. During covid that 1 year lock expired (and there was a displacement, which also affected things) with no additional influx or vacancies to restart seatlocks, and hiring stopped, so now on all the recent bids there are only 190 vacancies, so newhires can essentially only go to the 190. There also used to be 3 190 sims. There are only 2 now. It used to work when there were newhire vacancies on both planes. Now they are trying to hire 600 a year, but the 2x 190 sims aren’t adequate to support that many newhire 190 training events (plus upgrades and recurrent). There are attempts to get sim time elsewhere (DFW CAE I’ve heard), and whether or not that happens will dictate pilot hiring numbers for the next 12 (at least) months. Until enough growth happens where 320/220 vacancies go to newhires again, this problem will persist. B6 mgmt really screwed themselves by going cheap on the 190 rates. Especially since it was supposed to be a dying fleet anyway. They will pay more in training events and training churn than they would had they left 190 rates at 90% of bus rates.

any updates on the pilot hirings for this year? Aside from pilots and FAs, I'd imagine the grounds crew and gate agents are running low at this point. Not unique to B6, but certainly a problem they need to work through.

Seems like hiring constraint right now is E90 sims. Who could've guessed that 2 years ago when they were taking huge charges to remove it out of service by 2025. Now, it looks like E90 will be around for a while since they decided to keep their capex low for a while.

The next problem, and perhaps a larger one, is the capex required to get more planes. So much debt was taken on in the last 17 months, it makes it really difficult for them to just be able to take on a lot more buying up more aircraft. Apparently additional A220-300 delivery slots from mobile are non-existent, and they can’t take any additional 321s from airbus anytime soon either. So, perhaps they can find a decent deal on some used planes, but they don’t seem to be inclined to run up more debt. I’m not sure I agree with that decision given what every other airline (even those with more debt) seems to be doing ordering a bunch of planes. They seem more focused on repairing the balance sheet than adding planes/capacity.

If you look around the parking areas, namely JFK/BOS, and the 10ish 320s in MZJ, you can see a lot of idle planes. Mx also is an issue—I think the extended desert sit caused some issues for the planes. Sounds like the 190s especially are having a ton of issues. They are still only flying something like 85-90% of their 2019 capacity as far as flight hours go, despite having more airframes and at this point more pilots. So from an airframe standpoint, I think they could boost their capacity some of they were so inclined and had the staffing. It’s the summer 2022-2023 capacity I’m not so sure about. My guess is they will want it to be larger than they will be able to support with as few planes as they have coming.


This is the part that gets to me. It seems like a lot of JetBlue's current and upcoming challenges can be solved with more money and hiring the right people. But it requires decisive action by leadership to prioritize the challenges and get board backing to do them. That may result in B6 spending more on capex and hiring than they were planning to.

Their IT has been a mess all summer. Need a lot of investment to make that work. Especially for NEA.

If they do end up with the ability to expand more at EWR and more slots at LGA/JFK in the next 2 years, they need operational aircraft. I guess Airbus has a much stronger hand than Boeing in forcing airlines to take deliveries. Still surprised that there is no near term A321 slots. The obvious answer is taking used aircraft. Global demand is still way down. I'm sure lessors are willing to give favorable terms.

If the LAX situation does not improve (as in having to operate out of TBIT west), then they really need to put plans into place for SFO.

Whatever they do, they don't want to end up back in their Jan 2020 situation.
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 578
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:59 am

tphuang wrote:

any updates on the pilot hirings for this year? Aside from pilots and FAs, I'd imagine the grounds crew and gate agents are running low at this point. Not unique to B6, but certainly a problem they need to work through.

Seems like hiring constraint right now is E90 sims. Who could've guessed that 2 years ago when they were taking huge charges to remove it out of service by 2025. Now, it looks like E90 will be around for a while since they decided to keep their capex low for a while.



Hired a little under 60 so far this year in addition to the 30-40 who were sent home from training last year, newhire classes most every week, shooting for a total of a little over 300 this year and 300 more by next summer from what I hear. All subject to 190 sim availability. Also, they seem to always estimate more than they actually end up hiring. Hope it sticks though.
 
krsw757
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:22 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:00 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Just want to point out the on time rate for July thus far…

29%

Stop talking about other airlines, naysayers, Northeast, Florida and Metrics.

29%

That is sh*t

End of story.


Well then, let’s just close the thread.
 
FlyEndeavorAir
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat May 15, 2021 10:49 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:30 am

Well I will say B6 still is good on recovery, gave each of my family members on a delayed flight a $200 credit, with no status and no request was made, so the customer service aspect of the company is still there.
 
B6BOSfan
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:11 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:43 am

29% on time performance given the miserable weather conditions up and down the east coast so far this month seems, decent. I mean, one day JFK was basically shut down one afternoon for an ATC tower that was flooding from the roof, right?

Boston's had nearly 9 inches of rain in 12 days. New York Metro has had multiple storms triggering tornado warnings.

This is the summer of miserable experiences domestically.
 
speedbird2263
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:07 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:58 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
speedbird2263 wrote:
With all the emphasis on new flying, especially as it pertains to the NEA, does this put B6 back in the position pre-COVID of not having enough aircraft? I mean at one point they were so desperate they considered operating the 4 leased 321s without a proper B6 interior. Now it seems they’re kinda back in a similar situation( not helped by anemic deliveries) however with additional shortages to include manpower in just about every department.

That’s correct. If they had more planes, crews, and everything else that goes along to support that, they’d be deploying it. The problem is twofold. They are hiring pilots and FAs as fast as they can. Related, they just had close to 50 FAs quit at once in a coordinated effort because they were getting ridden so hard, largely because they are short-staffed. Some pilots are also leaving for legacies now that legacy hiring has resumed in earnest. Middle mgmt and senior mgmt also seem to be jumping ship at higher than normal rates as well. And business partners (catering, among others), are also short-staffed, also affecting the operation.

More in the weeds on the pilot side, during covid, all the pilots who could hold it bid to the A320 in a displacement bid caused by the LGB-LAX switch. It’s always been that newhires went to both 190 and 320, because there were vacancies in both. It used to be a 2 year seat lock. It’s now 1. The vacancies were often cyclical, and ensured an even future flow of vacancies in each plane. And until the contract a few years ago, pay was so close that it didn’t matter which plane you were on the first couple/few years. Now after year 1, the bus pays a lot more, driving pilots to want to switch earlier. Also the 190 flying gets boring. During covid that 1 year lock expired (and there was a displacement, which also affected things) with no additional influx or vacancies to restart seatlocks, and hiring stopped, so now on all the recent bids there are only 190 vacancies, so newhires can essentially only go to the 190. There also used to be 3 190 sims. There are only 2 now. It used to work when there were newhire vacancies on both planes. Now they are trying to hire 600 a year, but the 2x 190 sims aren’t adequate to support that many newhire 190 training events (plus upgrades and recurrent). There are attempts to get sim time elsewhere (DFW CAE I’ve heard), and whether or not that happens will dictate pilot hiring numbers for the next 12 (at least) months. Until enough growth happens where 320/220 vacancies go to newhires again, this problem will persist. B6 mgmt really screwed themselves by going cheap on the 190 rates. Especially since it was supposed to be a dying fleet anyway. They will pay more in training events and training churn than they would had they left 190 rates at 90% of bus rates.

The next problem, and perhaps a larger one, is the capex required to get more planes. So much debt was taken on in the last 17 months, it makes it really difficult for them to just be able to take on a lot more buying up more aircraft. Apparently additional A220-300 delivery slots from mobile are non-existent, and they can’t take any additional 321s from airbus anytime soon either. So, perhaps they can find a decent deal on some used planes, but they don’t seem to be inclined to run up more debt. I’m not sure I agree with that decision given what every other airline (even those with more debt) seems to be doing ordering a bunch of planes. They seem more focused on repairing the balance sheet than adding planes/capacity.

If you look around the parking areas, namely JFK/BOS, and the 10ish 320s in MZJ, you can see a lot of idle planes. Mx also is an issue—I think the extended desert sit caused some issues for the planes. Sounds like the 190s especially are having a ton of issues. They are still only flying something like 85-90% of their 2019 capacity as far as flight hours go, despite having more airframes and at this point more pilots. So from an airframe standpoint, I think they could boost their capacity some of they were so inclined and had the staffing. It’s the summer 2022-2023 capacity I’m not so sure about. My guess is they will want it to be larger than they will be able to support with as few planes as they have coming.


Excellent write up. Thank you for your insight, especially as it pertains to the 190 Sim issue & training churn, that’s an angle I hadn’t previously considered as a contributing factor in their operational challenges going forward.
 
StinkyPinky
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:03 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:14 am

tphuang wrote:
StinkyPinky wrote:
Beginning today, B6 will start using some TBIT West gates to alleviate some of the gate constraints in T5. Wonder if B6 will have long term split operations or eventually be pushed out to TBIT West all together.


for both departures and arrivals? Departures out of TBIT west is really bad. At least from what I can see out of flighttstats thus far, it's T5 for everything. Will keep an eye on this. NK is also ramping up their operation at LAX and they got one more gate, so T5 is probably overly packed at this point.


#535 SFO-LAX/#636 LAX-SFO is operating out of TBIT West this evening, busing passengers to/from T5.
 
EWRreppin
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:41 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:06 am

Sadly, I have to agree with some of the other posters earlier in regards to B6 delays or issues at EWR from my recent personal experience. I flew 3 flights recently (1 last month and 2 this month) in/out of EWR and all were delayed. None being weather related. One, because a maintenance repair at the gate but interestingly most of the delay was not the actual repair but waiting for the return of our logbook to our aircraft (the B6 maintenance guys took it and drove off somewhere) so we could then depart. So maybe more an ops or procedural issue? That same flight the flight time itself was a quick 33 minutes on an E190 but from stepping on to stepping off we had been sitting on the plane for 3 hours. And we had no drink or snack service either, not even water, in that whole time. Another flight (~1.5hr delayed), which also was my first time flying Mint and some things were unavailable onboard. Not the expected covid-19 cutbacks I mean, but no amenity kits, or Mint conditions, because of catering issues at EWR as I told by the FA (who was really great btw). But its unfortunate because I really like JetBlue and have flown them plenty and will still continue to (have a flight next month) but there's definitely some things to address. And as a trueblue member and B6 customer since '05 and having paid over $1k for these 3 flights I didn't get any sort of apology, credit, or gesture or anything from JetBlue which would have been nice. So it was just kindof sad for me. I don't mean to pile on but I was disappointed and I hope they can work it out soon.
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:28 pm

I’ve been thinking a lot about the situation that WN, B6, and AA have found themselves in this summer versus what normally happens in the airline industry after a recession type event. Usually, when the recovery happens, the legacies are very cautious and the LCCs move quickly to pick up any “slack” in supply left by legacies retreating during the recession. That appears to have been what happened this time with AA joining in that strategy: B6 expanding at EWR and shifting from LGB to LAX; AA rapidly restoring capacity at its southern hubs and creating the AUS focus city; WN expanding into small stations in the west, beach destinations, MIA, ORD, and IAH. The problem is, after 9/11 and ‘08 they weren’t short on aircraft (especially WN and B6, they grew through those recessions), they didn’t have to re train/re certify pilots, and they didn’t have labor shortages in other positions (ground staff, etc…).

All of that combined create the perfect storm this time around. The previous strategy of massive growth coming out of a recession isn’t working because the inputs (labor, aircraft) required for it aren’t there. Thus B6 (who, if we’re honest, while they have a good product, punctuality hasn’t been their strong suit) is spread too thin, overwhelmed, and any disruption (weather, mechanical) has an exacerbated effect on the operation. Same thing for AA and WN.

We also have to remember that B6 and especially WN are now mature company that will suffer mature company problems. In the past, these opportunistic grabs would’ve been a no-brainer. However, this time is different, and the more slow and steady approach taken by competitors may have been the right choice THIS TIME, even if it wasn’t the right way to go in the past.

I don’t know that B6s ignoring MCO to fund growth at EWR and LAX is necessarily the smartest move either. In the past, that wouldn’t have hurt too much. However, Orlando is VERY popular this summer and B6 now has much stronger ULCC competition than they had before. MCO is a market where ULCC service works really well. B6 isn’t making a good impression in those markets with their operational performance (B6 isn’t really making a “first impression” at EWR as they are a well known brand in the NY metro area, but travelers in that catchment area aren’t getting a good experience when they try B6 out of EWR for the first time) and that may hurt their prospects a bit.

I’ll add one more thing: I don’t know if B6 has this kind of loyalty in the northeast, but here in Texas, folks are fiercely loyal to WN. This is what I’ve encountered this summer:

Someone’s AA flight gets delayed or cancelled: “This is awful, I am never flying this airline ever again. They don’t know what they’re doing! I don’t care what their excuse is, they need to figure things out!”

Someone’s WN flight gets delayed or cancelled: “Flying in general is so frustrating this summer. It’s just so hard to find people willing to work right now, I know so many people in town that can’t hire the people they need.”

Does B6 enjoy this level of loyalty in their major markets? If so, and they right the ship quickly, I don’t think they’ll suffer too much long term reputation damage.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14575
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:20 am

Disney announced its moving 2000+ jobs from California to Lake Nona. Will this news persuade B6 to finally make the jump?

https://wdwnt.com/2021/07/disney-confirms-lake-nona-campus-relocating-2000-jobs/

Lake Nona is pretty close to MCO.
 
B752OS
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:33 am

STT757 wrote:
Disney announced its moving 2000+ jobs from California to Lake Nona. Will this news persuade B6 to finally make the jump?

https://wdwnt.com/2021/07/disney-confirms-lake-nona-campus-relocating-2000-jobs/

Lake Nona is pretty close to MCO.


What does Disney moving a small number of jobs from California to Florida have anything to do with JetBlue?
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14575
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:41 am

B752OS wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Disney announced its moving 2000+ jobs from California to Lake Nona. Will this news persuade B6 to finally make the jump?

https://wdwnt.com/2021/07/disney-confirms-lake-nona-campus-relocating-2000-jobs/

Lake Nona is pretty close to MCO.


What does Disney moving a small number of jobs from California to Florida have anything to do with JetBlue?


Big company from high cost area moving to Orlando, B6 is in a similar situation and if you read back in the thread you will see they have been toying with making the same move for years.

Also 2000+ is not a drop in the bucket, how many office workers does B6 have?

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/03/19/jetblue-nyc-headquarters-to-florida/
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6582
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:44 am

STT757 wrote:
B752OS wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Disney announced its moving 2000+ jobs from California to Lake Nona. Will this news persuade B6 to finally make the jump?

https://wdwnt.com/2021/07/disney-confirms-lake-nona-campus-relocating-2000-jobs/

Lake Nona is pretty close to MCO.


What does Disney moving a small number of jobs from California to Florida have anything to do with JetBlue?


Big company from high cost area moving to Orlando, B6 is in a similar situation and if you read back in the thread you will see they have been toying with making the same move for years.

Also 2000+ is not a drop in the bucket, how many office workers does B6 have?

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/03/19/jetblue-nyc-headquarters-to-florida/


Agreed.

Less than 2000.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6582
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:45 am



A new low for B6…The DR is calling them out for extensive delays…and wants action.

What a disgrace!
 
User avatar
TheLunchbox
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:31 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:25 am

Oh boy here we go.
 
11C
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:08 am

jfklganyc wrote:


A new low for B6…The DR is calling them out for extensive delays…and wants action.

What a disgrace!

Really? That article gets you fired up? While I won’t make any excuses for the operational prowess of B6, I also would not get my undies all jammed up over that article. I’ve dealt with some lengthy delays into, and out of the D.R., and when kept informed, the passengers have been very nice to deal with.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6582
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:41 pm

11C wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


A new low for B6…The DR is calling them out for extensive delays…and wants action.

What a disgrace!

Really? That article gets you fired up? While I won’t make any excuses for the operational prowess of B6, I also would not get my undies all jammed up over that article. I’ve dealt with some lengthy delays into, and out of the D.R., and when kept informed, the passengers have been very nice to deal with.



Doesnt get me fired up.

It gets the Officiating Authority of the DR fired up per the article.
 
maverick4002
Posts: 462
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:46 pm

Port of Spain is opening tomorrow, July 17. Will B6 be going back there soon?
 
KFTG
Posts: 948
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:53 pm

Why is there a B6 A320 parked near the Alaska hangar at Seattle?
(also wow, that thing needs a fresh coat of paint...)
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1994
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:01 pm

The EWR fiasco certainly didn’t help B6. Anyone have any word on how bad it went?
 
ytib
Posts: 722
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:22 am

Re: JetBlue 9400 en route to LHR

Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:16 pm

Another run to LHR this weekend.
17 JUL 2022: JFK-LHR
18 JUL 2022: LHR-JFK

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N4022J
 
bevan7
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:44 am

Re: JetBlue 9400 en route to LHR

Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:43 pm

ytib wrote:
Another run to LHR this weekend.
17 JUL 2022: JFK-LHR
18 JUL 2022: LHR-JFK

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N4022J


It may be a bug but that link looks like the plane just turned 90 degrees north to fly over iceland
 
bevan7
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:44 am

Re: JetBlue 9400 en route to LHR

Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:45 pm

bevan7 wrote:
ytib wrote:
Another run to LHR this weekend.
17 JUL 2022: JFK-LHR
18 JUL 2022: LHR-JFK

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N4022J


It may be a bug but that link looks like the plane just turned 90 degrees north to fly over iceland


I checked in on flightradar and it has it flying towards Iceland too. Maybe diverting?

https://www.flightradar24.com/JBU9403/287389cd
 
FlyingBrit
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:58 am

Re: JetBlue 9400 en route to LHR

Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:54 pm

Planned simulated diversion for certification purposes?

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