Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
dca1 wrote:What is the likelihood of JetBlue joining the Oneworld alliance?
dca1 wrote:What is the likelihood of JetBlue joining the Oneworld alliance?
FARmd90 wrote:A notification was sent out on one of the communication apps to “tune in for a London announcement tomorrow” 04/06
Ishrion wrote:FARmd90 wrote:A notification was sent out on one of the communication apps to “tune in for a London announcement tomorrow” 04/06
Nothing on the specific London airport. Today's announcement is about Economy Class/Core: http://blueir.investproductions.com/inv ... -140053087
Ishrion wrote:FARmd90 wrote:A notification was sent out on one of the communication apps to “tune in for a London announcement tomorrow” 04/06
Nothing on the specific London airport. Today's announcement is about Economy Class/Core: http://blueir.investproductions.com/inv ... -140053087
CobaltScar wrote:I'm wondering where they are going to fit all this stuff though.
USAirALB wrote:https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210406005628/en/
This link also has photos of the meals. Very cool IMHO. Sounds like it's a combination of their existing Mint Service and Delta's new economy product. Everyone will have a choice of three main options consisting of some type of protein, plus a choice of three (everyone can choose two) side options which will both be hot and cold. Sample options indicated in the PR include "roasted chicken thigh over a base of brown rice with herbs and spiced eggplant over coconut cauliflower quinoa, with sides including Dig’s beloved mac and cheese and a mixed heirloom tomato salad sourced directly from Dig Acres in upstate New York. For morning departures, the menu will include a mix of sweet and savory breakfast dishes, including a mixed berry bread pudding and citrus salad with local honey".
Liquor/beer/wine will also be complimentary in addition to their standard snack offering, and a pre-arrival service will also be offered.
I'm fascinated to see how this will be executed, especially because it looks like everyone will order their meal via the seatback screen. It looks like an expensive offering, given the variety and quality involved. It looks like they will be using reusable crockery as well.
Runway765 wrote:I hope B6 adds markets such as IND/CVG/MEM/STL when it launches London flights.
B6BOSfan wrote:JetBlue website hasn't been available to book flights most of Tuesday night. Gotta imagine work is taking place for ... something to come?
Weird message:
"Our website is currently undergoing maintenance and should be back up shortly. We’re sorry for the inconvenience! In the meantime, book a flight through our partner, Priceline."
hbernal1 wrote:Runway765 wrote:I hope B6 adds markets such as IND/CVG/MEM/STL when it launches London flights.
I'd be surprised if B6 don't add at least a few of these markets to help with feed for their London flights. The next big destination for B6 is Hawaii, which will be hugely important for LAX/SFO as West Coast connection points.B6BOSfan wrote:JetBlue website hasn't been available to book flights most of Tuesday night. Gotta imagine work is taking place for ... something to come?
Weird message:
"Our website is currently undergoing maintenance and should be back up shortly. We’re sorry for the inconvenience! In the meantime, book a flight through our partner, Priceline."
Yeah, I'm not too sure what to make of that either.
Wneast wrote:hbernal1 wrote:Runway765 wrote:I hope B6 adds markets such as IND/CVG/MEM/STL when it launches London flights.
I'd be surprised if B6 don't add at least a few of these markets to help with feed for their London flights. The next big destination for B6 is Hawaii, which will be hugely important for LAX/SFO as West Coast connection points.B6BOSfan wrote:JetBlue website hasn't been available to book flights most of Tuesday night. Gotta imagine work is taking place for ... something to come?
Weird message:
"Our website is currently undergoing maintenance and should be back up shortly. We’re sorry for the inconvenience! In the meantime, book a flight through our partner, Priceline."
Yeah, I'm not too sure what to make of that either.
Would they just add Hawaii from LAX and SFO I imagine there isn’t many places they could compete with southwest going to Hawaii in the near future?
hbernal1 wrote:I don’t think they would fly from anywhere else I would see WN just pushing them out of any market they enter except LAX and SFOWneast wrote:hbernal1 wrote:I'd be surprised if B6 don't add at least a few of these markets to help with feed for their London flights. The next big destination for B6 is Hawaii, which will be hugely important for LAX/SFO as West Coast connection points.
Yeah, I'm not too sure what to make of that either.
Would they just add Hawaii from LAX and SFO I imagine there isn’t many places they could compete with southwest going to Hawaii in the near future?
My best guess would be yes, only LAX/SFO would see Hawaii service if SFO does become a focus city for JetBlue. Thinking about what other big airports are within reasonable range from Hawaii, it wouldn't end well for B6: LAS would be a mess with how big WN/NK/F9 are there, PHX would likely be an even bigger disaster considering how big AA/WN are there, SEA would be just as bad with AS/DL there, and B6 would have next to no feed if they try it from SAN, which would doom the chances of such flights being successful.
Wneast wrote:hbernal1 wrote:I don’t think they would fly from anywhere else I would see WN just pushing them out of any market they enter except LAX and SFOWneast wrote:Would they just add Hawaii from LAX and SFO I imagine there isn’t many places they could compete with southwest going to Hawaii in the near future?
My best guess would be yes, only LAX/SFO would see Hawaii service if SFO does become a focus city for JetBlue. Thinking about what other big airports are within reasonable range from Hawaii, it wouldn't end well for B6: LAS would be a mess with how big WN/NK/F9 are there, PHX would likely be an even bigger disaster considering how big AA/WN are there, SEA would be just as bad with AS/DL there, and B6 would have next to no feed if they try it from SAN, which would doom the chances of such flights being successful.
tphuang wrote:Maybe the website is under maintenance because they are about to announce new cities or have another large scale schedule change or ff program change. They had issues with mint booking the day before they loaded in the summer schedule last week.
I'm not sure why the next big destination is Hawaii. It's not really that important for JetBlue. Starting service to London is a whole bigger ordeal than starting service to Hawaii. It's far and away the most important market out of East coast that they do not serve. It's also good if they add more of the midwest cities for feed. Once they have an ETOPS subfleet, going into HI is really not that hard. It will just be another mint market. They will only have 6 A321LRs by the end of 2022. With that, they can at best do 3 JFK-LON + 2 BOS-LON + maybe a supplemental JFK-KEF service in summer time.
Going to Canada would be a big deal. Going into deeper part of Brazil would be a big deal. Continental Europe would be a big deal.
Again, the focus needs to be on NYC and East coast for the next 2 years.
dca1 wrote:What is the likelihood of JetBlue joining the Oneworld alliance?
tphuang wrote:Maybe the website is under maintenance because they are about to announce new cities or have another large scale schedule change or ff program change. They had issues with mint booking the day before they loaded in the summer schedule last week.
BlueBaller wrote:tphuang wrote:Maybe the website is under maintenance because they are about to announce new cities or have another large scale schedule change or ff program change. They had issues with mint booking the day before they loaded in the summer schedule last week.
I could see them formalizing their London plans tomorrow. On board product debuted yesterday. The Special Qualification ETOPS bid award for the pilots was posted on Monday. Most of the training effective dates were for August 31, 2021. That gives them <5 months. They really don't have a lot of time left to keep everyone waiting around and wondering.
TWA85 wrote:dca1 wrote:What is the likelihood of JetBlue joining the Oneworld alliance?
As others have already mentioned, B6 has relationships of varying degrees with airlines from all alliances which greatly negates the need to join an alliance. That being said, it wouldn't be surprising if they joined the AA-IAG Trans-Atlantic JV. Doing so could greatly help them obtain more LHR access and avoid competing head to head with AA-BA and DL-VS.
TWA85 wrote:dca1 wrote:What is the likelihood of JetBlue joining the Oneworld alliance?
As others have already mentioned, B6 has relationships of varying degrees with airlines from all alliances which greatly negates the need to join an alliance. That being said, it wouldn't be surprising if they joined the AA-IAG Trans-Atlantic JV. Doing so could greatly help them obtain more LHR access and avoid competing head to head with AA-BA and DL-VS.
aemoreira1981 wrote:If that were to happen, I could see B6 being default US-secondary UK. In any event, I could see these routes in addition to LHR in Europe:
UK: GLA, EDI (both seasonally), LBA and EMA seasonally for Christmas shopping trips? (Remember, the only planes LS has that can do the mission are between 24 and 34 years old.)
(Note: no MAN or Ireland - serviced by B6 partner EI, from B6 gates.)
France: ORY, NCE (NCE seasonal)
Germany: DUS, BER (BER seasonal)...HAM? STR
JoseSalazar wrote:TWA85 wrote:dca1 wrote:What is the likelihood of JetBlue joining the Oneworld alliance?
As others have already mentioned, B6 has relationships of varying degrees with airlines from all alliances which greatly negates the need to join an alliance. That being said, it wouldn't be surprising if they joined the AA-IAG Trans-Atlantic JV. Doing so could greatly help them obtain more LHR access and avoid competing head to head with AA-BA and DL-VS.
Would that even be allowed? The NEA specifically excluded TATL, or so I read, in order to survive DOT/DOJ scrutiny. I’m not sure that JV would be good for anyone.
aemoreira1981 wrote:If that were to happen, I could see B6 being default US-secondary UK. In any event, I could see these routes in addition to LHR in Europe:
UK: GLA, EDI (both seasonally), LBA and EMA seasonally for Christmas shopping trips? (Remember, the only planes LS has that can do the mission are between 24 and 34 years old.)
(Note: no MAN or Ireland - serviced by B6 partner EI, from B6 gates.)
France: ORY, NCE (NCE seasonal)
Germany: DUS, BER (BER seasonal)...HAM? STR?
Into Latin America, from FLL, once things dial down...future B6 destinations?
PTY
MDE
CLO
MAO
REC
FOR
(No GIG or VCP---served by AD)
MVD
EZE or AEP
VVI
SCL
The best thing is: if the plans don't work out? Well, they can be repurposed on the US and LatAm network.
TWA85 wrote:aemoreira1981 wrote:If that were to happen, I could see B6 being default US-secondary UK. In any event, I could see these routes in addition to LHR in Europe:
UK: GLA, EDI (both seasonally), LBA and EMA seasonally for Christmas shopping trips? (Remember, the only planes LS has that can do the mission are between 24 and 34 years old.)
(Note: no MAN or Ireland - serviced by B6 partner EI, from B6 gates.)
France: ORY, NCE (NCE seasonal)
Germany: DUS, BER (BER seasonal)...HAM? STR
I agree. To expand on that, B6 could also fly secondary US-London routes like LHR-BDL, BWI, PIT, etc.
aemoreira1981 wrote:TWA85 wrote:dca1 wrote:What is the likelihood of JetBlue joining the Oneworld alliance?
As others have already mentioned, B6 has relationships of varying degrees with airlines from all alliances which greatly negates the need to join an alliance. That being said, it wouldn't be surprising if they joined the AA-IAG Trans-Atlantic JV. Doing so could greatly help them obtain more LHR access and avoid competing head to head with AA-BA and DL-VS.
If that were to happen, I could see B6 being default US-secondary UK. In any event, I could see these routes in addition to LHR in Europe:
UK: GLA, EDI (both seasonally), LBA and EMA seasonally for Christmas shopping trips? (Remember, the only planes LS has that can do the mission are between 24 and 34 years old.)
(Note: no MAN or Ireland - serviced by B6 partner EI, from B6 gates.)
France: ORY, NCE (NCE seasonal)
Germany: DUS, BER (BER seasonal)...HAM? STR?
Into Latin America, from FLL, once things dial down...future B6 destinations?
PTY
MDE
CLO
MAO
REC
FOR
(No GIG or VCP---served by AD)
MVD
EZE or AEP
VVI
SCL
The best thing is: if the plans don't work out? Well, they can be repurposed on the US and LatAm network.
aemoreira1981 wrote:TWA85 wrote:dca1 wrote:What is the likelihood of JetBlue joining the Oneworld alliance?
If that were to happen, I could see B6 being default US-secondary UK. In any event, I could see these routes in addition to LHR in Europe:
UK: GLA, EDI (both seasonally), LBA and EMA seasonally for Christmas shopping trips? (Remember, the only planes LS has that can do the mission are between 24 and 34 years old.)
(Note: no MAN or Ireland - serviced by B6 partner EI, from B6 gates.)
France: ORY, NCE (NCE seasonal)
Germany: DUS, BER (BER seasonal)...HAM? STR?
DLHAM wrote:aemoreira1981 wrote:TWA85 wrote:If that were to happen, I could see B6 being default US-secondary UK. In any event, I could see these routes in addition to LHR in Europe:
UK: GLA, EDI (both seasonally), LBA and EMA seasonally for Christmas shopping trips? (Remember, the only planes LS has that can do the mission are between 24 and 34 years old.)
(Note: no MAN or Ireland - serviced by B6 partner EI, from B6 gates.)
France: ORY, NCE (NCE seasonal)
Germany: DUS, BER (BER seasonal)...HAM? STR?
Offering JFK-HAM would be a great opportunity for JetBlue. This is a huge unserved market with 115.000 annual passengers in 2019. Also the share of Business travelers is pretty high, single problem is that the largest proportion of those high yielding frequent Business travelers in HAM is loyal to Star Alliance/Lufthansa. This is the challenge for an Airline offering a flight from Hamburg to the US, to steal a certain amount of high yield passengers from Lufthansa.
But I am sure that JetBlue is VERY high on the list of those Airlines being able to steal enough HAM frequent travelers from Lufthansa. Nonstop flight, amazingly good hard product and connections from JFK. If they are reliable, offer attractive departure times and the flight is yearround (very important in HAM!) I see no problem.
Back in 2005 Continental was able to establish a EWR-HAM flight as an Airline not very known in Germany, a SkyTeam (=non Star Alliance) member, operating an airplane that burned 30% more fuel than the A321 with passenger demand only half of 2019. So why would JetBlue not be sucessful? Of course that assumes that passengers numbers in Aviation can recover in the coming years. But they need to be quick: I am sure that United is eyeing HAM with their A321XLR.
I see Berlin, Hamburg, Frankfurt and maybe Düsseldorf in Germany.
ContinentalEWR wrote:DLHAM wrote:aemoreira1981 wrote:
Offering JFK-HAM would be a great opportunity for JetBlue. This is a huge unserved market with 115.000 annual passengers in 2019. Also the share of Business travelers is pretty high, single problem is that the largest proportion of those high yielding frequent Business travelers in HAM is loyal to Star Alliance/Lufthansa. This is the challenge for an Airline offering a flight from Hamburg to the US, to steal a certain amount of high yield passengers from Lufthansa.
But I am sure that JetBlue is VERY high on the list of those Airlines being able to steal enough HAM frequent travelers from Lufthansa. Nonstop flight, amazingly good hard product and connections from JFK. If they are reliable, offer attractive departure times and the flight is yearround (very important in HAM!) I see no problem.
Back in 2005 Continental was able to establish a EWR-HAM flight as an Airline not very known in Germany, a SkyTeam (=non Star Alliance) member, operating an airplane that burned 30% more fuel than the A321 with passenger demand only half of 2019. So why would JetBlue not be sucessful? Of course that assumes that passengers numbers in Aviation can recover in the coming years. But they need to be quick: I am sure that United is eyeing HAM with their A321XLR.
I see Berlin, Hamburg, Frankfurt and maybe Düsseldorf in Germany.
It's possible and the A321LR or XLR certainly have the economics to make something like that work, but I don't see BER, HAM, or DUS in the future for B6, at least in the short to medium term. These routes have traditionally not worked well, though admittedly with larger aircraft. No one seems to be able to make NYC-BER work but for UA, year round. The priority for B6 beyond London will likely be AMS, BRU, CDG (or ORY) and potentially MAD, BCN. I'd think B6's focus to build out TATL will be JFK/BOS to AMS, BRU, DUB, CDG, MAD, BCN at most.
DLHAM wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:DLHAM wrote:
Offering JFK-HAM would be a great opportunity for JetBlue. This is a huge unserved market with 115.000 annual passengers in 2019. Also the share of Business travelers is pretty high, single problem is that the largest proportion of those high yielding frequent Business travelers in HAM is loyal to Star Alliance/Lufthansa. This is the challenge for an Airline offering a flight from Hamburg to the US, to steal a certain amount of high yield passengers from Lufthansa.
But I am sure that JetBlue is VERY high on the list of those Airlines being able to steal enough HAM frequent travelers from Lufthansa. Nonstop flight, amazingly good hard product and connections from JFK. If they are reliable, offer attractive departure times and the flight is yearround (very important in HAM!) I see no problem.
Back in 2005 Continental was able to establish a EWR-HAM flight as an Airline not very known in Germany, a SkyTeam (=non Star Alliance) member, operating an airplane that burned 30% more fuel than the A321 with passenger demand only half of 2019. So why would JetBlue not be sucessful? Of course that assumes that passengers numbers in Aviation can recover in the coming years. But they need to be quick: I am sure that United is eyeing HAM with their A321XLR.
I see Berlin, Hamburg, Frankfurt and maybe Düsseldorf in Germany.
It's possible and the A321LR or XLR certainly have the economics to make something like that work, but I don't see BER, HAM, or DUS in the future for B6, at least in the short to medium term. These routes have traditionally not worked well, though admittedly with larger aircraft. No one seems to be able to make NYC-BER work but for UA, year round. The priority for B6 beyond London will likely be AMS, BRU, CDG (or ORY) and potentially MAD, BCN. I'd think B6's focus to build out TATL will be JFK/BOS to AMS, BRU, DUB, CDG, MAD, BCN at most.
I am sure as well that JetBlue will start with "major" places like London, Dublin, Amsterdam, Paris, Madrid and Lisbon. Also because they are limited by the range of the A321LR places further than Amsterdam seem to be not possible with the LR with a decent load and without unplanned fuel stops in winter. But in a few years XLRs are coming and they can fly to Germany, Scandinavia, Italy, Southern France. By this time they maybe established their flights to the "big destinations" and are up for something new.
I think for an airline like JetBlue its better to concentrate on secondary markets with healthy demand, on routes like these they can charge a "premium" for offering THE nonstop connection and comfortable One-Stop connections to many, many places in the US. Just like Continental did sucessfully ...
Also its easier to steal some customers from the big alliances, offering a fast, convenient nonstop/one-stops is the biggest reason for Business travelers to switch. Offering the 7th daily flight from >add your favorite big Hub here< to New York there is no real advantage for a frequent flying status member to switch to that JetBlue flight and give up the status because he can have the nonstop on his Airline as well. And these Airlines will try to kill JetBlue by offering cheap fares on their nonstops.
So we have to wait for the XLR anyway, but as I said they need to be quick when the XLRs arrive: United and American have huge numbers of them coming in too.
ContinentalEWR wrote:DLHAM wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:
It's possible and the A321LR or XLR certainly have the economics to make something like that work, but I don't see BER, HAM, or DUS in the future for B6, at least in the short to medium term. These routes have traditionally not worked well, though admittedly with larger aircraft. No one seems to be able to make NYC-BER work but for UA, year round. The priority for B6 beyond London will likely be AMS, BRU, CDG (or ORY) and potentially MAD, BCN. I'd think B6's focus to build out TATL will be JFK/BOS to AMS, BRU, DUB, CDG, MAD, BCN at most.
I am sure as well that JetBlue will start with "major" places like London, Dublin, Amsterdam, Paris, Madrid and Lisbon. Also because they are limited by the range of the A321LR places further than Amsterdam seem to be not possible with the LR with a decent load and without unplanned fuel stops in winter. But in a few years XLRs are coming and they can fly to Germany, Scandinavia, Italy, Southern France. By this time they maybe established their flights to the "big destinations" and are up for something new.
I think for an airline like JetBlue its better to concentrate on secondary markets with healthy demand, on routes like these they can charge a "premium" for offering THE nonstop connection and comfortable One-Stop connections to many, many places in the US. Just like Continental did sucessfully ...
Also its easier to steal some customers from the big alliances, offering a fast, convenient nonstop/one-stops is the biggest reason for Business travelers to switch. Offering the 7th daily flight from >add your favorite big Hub here< to New York there is no real advantage for a frequent flying status member to switch to that JetBlue flight and give up the status because he can have the nonstop on his Airline as well. And these Airlines will try to kill JetBlue by offering cheap fares on their nonstops.
So we have to wait for the XLR anyway, but as I said they need to be quick when the XLRs arrive: United and American have huge numbers of them coming in too.
Doubt B6 will look to Lisbon as a destination unless tourism picks up post-COVID. They partner with TP already who covers the US-LIS market, and particularly NYC (EWR and JFK) + BOS quite well. It's true that CO opened up a lot of TATL markets that without the 757, would not have been able to sustain year-round operations on a wide body, but it was also a function of CO's relatively small and 767/777 fleet, which numbered 26 (767-200/400) and 21 (777-200ER). Yes, UA and AA have placed significant orders for the 321XLR and both airlines have suggested the type can open up more TATL markets where a twin aisle jet is too much plane. I suspect though that AA will focus its 321XLRs on Deep South America and to Europe from PHL and JFK, but likely not to secondary Germany. AA struggles with US-Germany and always has due to a weak POS originating in the German market. Absent a large corporate contract for JFK/PHL to a STR, HAM, DUS, I don't see them flying it. BER is a mostly a leisure market. I can see AA perhaps adding a FRA or MUC service out of JFK with the 321XLR (or returning to PHL-FRA/MUC with the plane) but more likely scenario would be AA adding BRU, ZRH out of JFK on it first. UA axed the EWR-HAM flight because it performed poorly (# of passengers and volume does not equate to profitability). The 757s struggled on HAM-EWR and TXL-EWR in the winter (I flew TXL-EWR a bunch of times on CO and had a diversion due to winds), which is why they had to upgauge to the 767-300ER and -400ER. It works for TXL. Didn't for HAM and given the industry's landscape right now, likely won't for some time. EK also flew JFK-HAM-DXB for a time, on the 77W and that too didn't work and was replaced with the JFK-MXP-DXB fifth freedom flight.
ContinentalEWR wrote:UA axed the EWR-HAM flight because it performed poorly (# of passengers and volume does not equate to profitability). The 757s struggled on HAM-EWR and TXL-EWR in the winter (I flew TXL-EWR a bunch of times on CO and had a diversion due to winds), which is why they had to upgauge to the 767-300ER and -400ER. It works for TXL. Didn't for HAM and given the industry's landscape right now, likely won't for some time.
ContinentalEWR wrote:EK also flew JFK-HAM-DXB for a time, on the 77W and that too didn't work and was replaced with the JFK-MXP-DXB fifth freedom flight.
adamh8297 wrote:Here's some 2018 data on BOS-Western Europe Traffic.
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/859c15_f ... 564d1b.pdf
Gives top 25 in traffic, yield, revenue, carrier etc.
DLHAM wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:UA axed the EWR-HAM flight because it performed poorly (# of passengers and volume does not equate to profitability). The 757s struggled on HAM-EWR and TXL-EWR in the winter (I flew TXL-EWR a bunch of times on CO and had a diversion due to winds), which is why they had to upgauge to the 767-300ER and -400ER. It works for TXL. Didn't for HAM and given the industry's landscape right now, likely won't for some time.
That United could not make HAM work at the end does not mean that NYC-HAM does not work in general. Continental had this route working very well for years, making money yearround with 5-6 weekly flights in a relatively short "winter schedule".
After the merger things started to decrease slowly, passenger numbers sank and the share of total traffic HAM-NYC and HAM-USA also decreased more and more, while the total numbers kept rising.
When they brought the 767s the flight became very unreliable (countless tech. delays and AOGs/cancellations, much worse than than the occasional 757 fuelstops in winter), frequent business passengers ran away and switched to fly via Frankfurt to have a reliable connection (+better product).
The last nail in the coffin was to switch to seasonal, which does not work in a business oriented market like HAM-NYC.
So the (Premium) demand is there, United was not able to attract enough of this segment.ContinentalEWR wrote:EK also flew JFK-HAM-DXB for a time, on the 77W and that too didn't work and was replaced with the JFK-MXP-DXB fifth freedom flight.
This was a whole different story, three problems with that flight:
1. Transit passengers harmed the very profitable DXB-HAM segment. There was only one daily flight back then and the Transit passengers limited availability even more. Also Cargo was a problem: Cargo that was left behind by the DXB-JFK nonstops due to unfavorable winds etc. was loaded onto the via-HAM flight, this led to lots of HAM bound Cargo left behind both to DXB and JFK. A second daily DXB-HAM was not possible due to aircraft shortage.
2. Continental Airlines. Many thought Emirates would kick Continental out of HAM, but Continental had way more attractive departure times, offered connections and were a SkyTeam member. Continental managed to attract most non-Star-Loyal frequent flyers even with a bad cabin product compared to Emirates Business and First Cabins.
3. Lufthansa and the German Ministry of Transportation. They refused any further negotiations with Emirates about landing rights in Berlin and Stuttgart as long as this HAM-NYC flight exists and put a lot of pressure on Emirates.
MXP-JFK started 5 years after HAM-JFK ended, so I do not think it got "replaced".adamh8297 wrote:Here's some 2018 data on BOS-Western Europe Traffic.
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/859c15_f ... 564d1b.pdf
Gives top 25 in traffic, yield, revenue, carrier etc.
Sure this is 2018? HAM had more passengers to/from both Boston and Chicago than both Berlin and Düsseldorf, why doesnt it show up?
Maybe the numbers are older, from times when the much missed airberlin still operated.
ContinentalEWR wrote:DLHAM wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:UA axed the EWR-HAM flight because it performed poorly (# of passengers and volume does not equate to profitability). The 757s struggled on HAM-EWR and TXL-EWR in the winter (I flew TXL-EWR a bunch of times on CO and had a diversion due to winds), which is why they had to upgauge to the 767-300ER and -400ER. It works for TXL. Didn't for HAM and given the industry's landscape right now, likely won't for some time.
That United could not make HAM work at the end does not mean that NYC-HAM does not work in general. Continental had this route working very well for years, making money yearround with 5-6 weekly flights in a relatively short "winter schedule".
After the merger things started to decrease slowly, passenger numbers sank and the share of total traffic HAM-NYC and HAM-USA also decreased more and more, while the total numbers kept rising.
When they brought the 767s the flight became very unreliable (countless tech. delays and AOGs/cancellations, much worse than than the occasional 757 fuelstops in winter), frequent business passengers ran away and switched to fly via Frankfurt to have a reliable connection (+better product).
The last nail in the coffin was to switch to seasonal, which does not work in a business oriented market like HAM-NYC.
So the (Premium) demand is there, United was not able to attract enough of this segment.ContinentalEWR wrote:EK also flew JFK-HAM-DXB for a time, on the 77W and that too didn't work and was replaced with the JFK-MXP-DXB fifth freedom flight.
This was a whole different story, three problems with that flight:
1. Transit passengers harmed the very profitable DXB-HAM segment. There was only one daily flight back then and the Transit passengers limited availability even more. Also Cargo was a problem: Cargo that was left behind by the DXB-JFK nonstops due to unfavorable winds etc. was loaded onto the via-HAM flight, this led to lots of HAM bound Cargo left behind both to DXB and JFK. A second daily DXB-HAM was not possible due to aircraft shortage.
2. Continental Airlines. Many thought Emirates would kick Continental out of HAM, but Continental had way more attractive departure times, offered connections and were a SkyTeam member. Continental managed to attract most non-Star-Loyal frequent flyers even with a bad cabin product compared to Emirates Business and First Cabins.
3. Lufthansa and the German Ministry of Transportation. They refused any further negotiations with Emirates about landing rights in Berlin and Stuttgart as long as this HAM-NYC flight exists and put a lot of pressure on Emirates.
MXP-JFK started 5 years after HAM-JFK ended, so I do not think it got "replaced".adamh8297 wrote:Here's some 2018 data on BOS-Western Europe Traffic.
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/859c15_f ... 564d1b.pdf
Gives top 25 in traffic, yield, revenue, carrier etc.
Sure this is 2018? HAM had more passengers to/from both Boston and Chicago than both Berlin and Düsseldorf, why doesnt it show up?
Maybe the numbers are older, from times when the much missed airberlin still operated.
Hamburg is a major city and I get the need for it to be connected to the NY Area, but at the moment, TATL is essentially dead, and it will take a full year if not more for traffic to recover. It may not recover to pre-COVID levels at all as companies reassess the need to spend on T&E. I don't see any airline starting HAM except for maybe UA resuming it, and when they do, with the 321XLR. It's not likely a priority for B6 and AA/DL very likely have zero interest in it. UA's top brass have said the 321XLR is the plane that could make some routes work again that were dropped. That was before COVID though.
tphuang wrote:Jetblue website is still down as of 7 am EST. I have no idea what kind of maintenance can take this long. Not sure if it's related to this
https://www.inforney.com/texas/jetblue- ... 2955f.html
arfbool wrote:Why not update Sunday at 3am instead of weekday evenings when people would be using the website?
Blueknows wrote:Website issues are due to Sabre EMD cutover. This started Thursday at 3pm. It’s updated Sabre product, so now all bag weights have to be entered. B6 can sell tickets in lbs now.
aemoreira1981 wrote:TWA85 wrote:dca1 wrote:What is the likelihood of JetBlue joining the Oneworld alliance?
As others have already mentioned, B6 has relationships of varying degrees with airlines from all alliances which greatly negates the need to join an alliance. That being said, it wouldn't be surprising if they joined the AA-IAG Trans-Atlantic JV. Doing so could greatly help them obtain more LHR access and avoid competing head to head with AA-BA and DL-VS.
If that were to happen, I could see B6 being default US-secondary UK. In any event, I could see these routes in addition to LHR in Europe:
UK: GLA, EDI (both seasonally), LBA and EMA seasonally for Christmas shopping trips? (Remember, the only planes LS has that can do the mission are between 24 and 34 years old.)
(Note: no MAN or Ireland - serviced by B6 partner EI, from B6 gates.)
France: ORY, NCE (NCE seasonal)
Germany: DUS, BER (BER seasonal)...HAM? STR?
Into Latin America, from FLL, once things dial down...future B6 destinations?
PTY
MDE
CLO
MAO
REC
FOR
(No GIG or VCP---served by AD)
MVD
EZE or AEP
VVI
SCL
The best thing is: if the plans don't work out? Well, they can be repurposed on the US and LatAm network.