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trueblew
Posts: 656
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 6:05 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
wow, can believe they were at 5x on JFK-RDU before.

JFK - They have fewer flights a day than DL because they have fewer slots. I don't think it's a real problem right now since they have restored capacity almost everywhere. They can always fly more short haul stuff if slot constraint goes away. Longer term, they'd have to be sublease or buy 50 to 60 slots to reach the 230 to 240 flights a day that DL was operating out of JFK pre-COVID during peak days. The other possibility is if slot constraint goes away. it certainly helps them that DL has scaled down its T-4 project.

Here is their opportunity in NYC. It's time to add more of those short haul flights to feed all their transcon + international stuff. There is no reason they can't make a major run in the NYC corporate market now that they have access through AA's corporate sales team. I'd be very surprised if we don't get another NYC heavy route announcement for fall.

Re: FLL - I think they should be able to co-exist with NK there. Given NK's focus on FLL and their speed of expansion, they probably have surpassed B6 for good unless B6 just manages to secure more gates than NK in the medium term. The most obvious trade-off for B6 is to work out something with WN to sublease some of their gates. Until NYC buildup is a lot further along, there is just no resource for FLL. There are certain inherent strength that B6 has over NK out of FLL: transcon, northeast + international. there is high taxes to many Latam markets. NK simply can't undercut B6 in those type of markets. Keep in mind when they were trying to build FLL up, they managed to overcome WN in many markets where WN was larger. Which means B6 does really well on FLL point of sale. But as things stand, B6 is focused on NEA and NYC over this next year.

MCO - It looks like they are happy with running about 45 flights a day out of there right now. I'm sure that number with go up a little bit, but I don't see them recovering to pre-COVID size for a while. If they are planning a buildup here, it won't happen for several years.

LAX - consolidating LGB into LAX is a great thing. A split focus city situation where both station is around 20 flights a day is a disaster. They have more capacity scheduled in for LAX this summer than I would've expected several months ago. I think the big challenge for them is to secure enough real estate for a 70+ flight operation. They got some time before their planned expansion starts. They have enough flight to tell LAWA that they've lived up to their end of their bargain and should be allocated the additional space in somewhere not MSC. Having a meaningful presence in LAX is important to their network. I don't see any issues with where they are right now.

Re FLL, leasing gates from WN would be impractical. WN uses terminal 1 which is as far away from the terminal B6 uses as one can get. It’s also not connected landside or airside and would also likely require B6 to open new check in counters in terminal 1 to accommodate passengers on flights departing that terminal or alternatively have passengers walk back to terminal 1. It would also eliminate any practical connections for flights that would use that terminal.


One limited option would be to expand the use of Terminal 1 for international arrivals. Pre-covid they were using some A gates for Cuba and CUN arrivals. It wouldn't be a huge help but it's something.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 2116
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 6:25 pm

trueblew wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
wow, can believe they were at 5x on JFK-RDU before.

JFK - They have fewer flights a day than DL because they have fewer slots. I don't think it's a real problem right now since they have restored capacity almost everywhere. They can always fly more short haul stuff if slot constraint goes away. Longer term, they'd have to be sublease or buy 50 to 60 slots to reach the 230 to 240 flights a day that DL was operating out of JFK pre-COVID during peak days. The other possibility is if slot constraint goes away. it certainly helps them that DL has scaled down its T-4 project.

Here is their opportunity in NYC. It's time to add more of those short haul flights to feed all their transcon + international stuff. There is no reason they can't make a major run in the NYC corporate market now that they have access through AA's corporate sales team. I'd be very surprised if we don't get another NYC heavy route announcement for fall.

Re: FLL - I think they should be able to co-exist with NK there. Given NK's focus on FLL and their speed of expansion, they probably have surpassed B6 for good unless B6 just manages to secure more gates than NK in the medium term. The most obvious trade-off for B6 is to work out something with WN to sublease some of their gates. Until NYC buildup is a lot further along, there is just no resource for FLL. There are certain inherent strength that B6 has over NK out of FLL: transcon, northeast + international. there is high taxes to many Latam markets. NK simply can't undercut B6 in those type of markets. Keep in mind when they were trying to build FLL up, they managed to overcome WN in many markets where WN was larger. Which means B6 does really well on FLL point of sale. But as things stand, B6 is focused on NEA and NYC over this next year.

MCO - It looks like they are happy with running about 45 flights a day out of there right now. I'm sure that number with go up a little bit, but I don't see them recovering to pre-COVID size for a while. If they are planning a buildup here, it won't happen for several years.

LAX - consolidating LGB into LAX is a great thing. A split focus city situation where both station is around 20 flights a day is a disaster. They have more capacity scheduled in for LAX this summer than I would've expected several months ago. I think the big challenge for them is to secure enough real estate for a 70+ flight operation. They got some time before their planned expansion starts. They have enough flight to tell LAWA that they've lived up to their end of their bargain and should be allocated the additional space in somewhere not MSC. Having a meaningful presence in LAX is important to their network. I don't see any issues with where they are right now.

Re FLL, leasing gates from WN would be impractical. WN uses terminal 1 which is as far away from the terminal B6 uses as one can get. It’s also not connected landside or airside and would also likely require B6 to open new check in counters in terminal 1 to accommodate passengers on flights departing that terminal or alternatively have passengers walk back to terminal 1. It would also eliminate any practical connections for flights that would use that terminal.


One limited option would be to expand the use of Terminal 1 for international arrivals. Pre-covid they were using some A gates for Cuba and CUN arrivals. It wouldn't be a huge help but it's something.

But don’t B6 int’l passengers also connect to domestic flights? Until they complete the connectors, that would be a limiting factor because while yes int’l pax have to clear customs/immigration and end up landside, the walk from T1 to T3 wouldn’t be convenient as it would have to be done on the sidewalk outside the terminal as the terminals aren’t currently connected landside either. Also, unless they end up towing the B6 planes over to T3 after arrival, it still creates a problem when those planes do their next departure as B6 would either have to open counters in T1 or have pax walk from T3 over to T1 after they check in.

The thing is even with a connector, it’s not exactly a short or convenient walk from T3 to T1. If B6 were looking for gates (and there’s no indication they currently are), the best bet would be to try to make a deal with AA who also uses the same terminal. Not sure AA would go for that though.
 
Abeam79
Posts: 767
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Wed May 12, 2021 6:32 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Abeam79 wrote:
I doubt NK will stay on EWR-BOS. Heard the loads/yields were abysmal for them.



Short haul business route with zero traffic right now


Those B6 EWR-BOS flights have been pretty full recently.

Makes sense, B6 has a decent network out of EWR and a full blown focus city in BOS for further connections. Even tho biz travel is down sharply, they offer free hi speed wifi and decent legroom and decent onboard offerings for short flight which makes it much more welcoming for a business traveler as it slowly rebounds. NK offers none of that. No connections/wifi & free snacks/beverages. They are essentially just scraping those who'd probably take the bus but want to get there a little faster. Thats not a model that can hold over time competitevly on that route with UA/B6 making better offerings. Especially when biz travel rebounds and more frequencies are needed, NK just has some spare airplanes to d something with, as demand recovers I doubt they will dedicate more airplanes on that route with a meager competitive offering.
 
tphuang
Posts: 7379
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 1:22 pm

T-100 data for Jan/Feb

LF for the largest stations
JFK 67%
MCO 76%
BOS 63%
SJU 76%
LAX 55%
FLL 75%
EWR 74%

top 10 routes
BDLMCO 87%
BDLSJU 87%
EWRFLL 86%
EWRATL 86%
JFKFLL 85%
LGAFLL 85%
BDLFLL 85%
SJUTPA 84%
PHLSJU 83%
LGAMCO 83%

lowest 10
SJUSTT 26%
RDUTPA 26%
JFKABQ 25%
RDURSW 21%
BDLLAX 20%
LAXRIC 20%
LAXSEA 19%
BOSMTJ 16%
BZNLAX 13%
RDUJAX 11%

If we just look at Feb
JFK 69%
MCO 77%
BOS 67%
SJU 78%
LAX 59
FLL 76%
EWR 75%

warm weather stuff continues to do the best. Tough time to start those new LAX/RDU markets. Transcon numbers look to have really dipped when Cali entered their big lockdown.
EWR-ATL looks to be doing well consistently. Not sure why they reduced it to 2x for the summer.
 
AC4500
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 2:16 pm

tphuang wrote:
LAXSEA 19%

Wow....

Considering that LAX-SEA is one of the busiest routes at LAX, I figured this would be at least 40-50%...

I guess operating just one flight a day on a route where the competition offers 10+ daily flights isn't the best strategy here...
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 7975
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 2:32 pm

AC4500 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
LAXSEA 19%

Wow....

Considering that LAX-SEA is one of the busiest routes at LAX, I figured this would be at least 40-50%...

I guess operating just one flight a day on a route where the competition offers 10+ daily flights isn't the best strategy here...


Did they drop this for the summer? I don't see it from early June through November
 
AC4500
Posts: 1627
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 3:23 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
LAXSEA 19%

Wow....

Considering that LAX-SEA is one of the busiest routes at LAX, I figured this would be at least 40-50%...

I guess operating just one flight a day on a route where the competition offers 10+ daily flights isn't the best strategy here...


Did they drop this for the summer? I don't see it from early June through November

Yep, it's gone for the summer.

As of now, the route won't start up again until October 31st.
 
dca1
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:39 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 5:59 pm

https://liveandletsfly.com/jetblue-troj ... OrylAZdXOo

“ Stabilizing the balance of the New York City and Boston markets are important goals. Thus, I do not fault American Airlines at all for its choice to partner with JetBlue. Still, American should watch its back. JetBlue has big growth aspirations in sight and won’t let AA get in the way of them.”

Perhaps with the recent review by the DOJ, AA should take the chance to stop pursuing the deal. I struggle to see how this ends well for them.
 
maximairways
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:05 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 6:04 pm

tphuang wrote:
T-100 data for Jan/Feb

LF for the largest stations
JFK 67%
MCO 76%
BOS 63%
SJU 76%
LAX 55%
FLL 75%
EWR 74%

top 10 routes
BDLMCO 87%
BDLSJU 87%
EWRFLL 86%
EWRATL 86%
JFKFLL 85%
LGAFLL 85%
BDLFLL 85%
SJUTPA 84%
PHLSJU 83%
LGAMCO 83%

lowest 10
SJUSTT 26%
RDUTPA 26%
JFKABQ 25%
RDURSW 21%
BDLLAX 20%
LAXRIC 20%
LAXSEA 19%
BOSMTJ 16%
BZNLAX 13%
RDUJAX 11%

If we just look at Feb
JFK 69%
MCO 77%
BOS 67%
SJU 78%
LAX 59
FLL 76%
EWR 75%

warm weather stuff continues to do the best. Tough time to start those new LAX/RDU markets. Transcon numbers look to have really dipped when Cali entered their big lockdown.
EWR-ATL looks to be doing well consistently. Not sure why they reduced it to 2x for the summer.


BDL being 3 of the top 10 routes, the seem to be doing very well. Curious to see how the new CUN route is doing.
 
Iggy500
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:40 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 11:00 pm

AC4500 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
AC4500 wrote:
Wow....

Considering that LAX-SEA is one of the busiest routes at LAX, I figured this would be at least 40-50%...

I guess operating just one flight a day on a route where the competition offers 10+ daily flights isn't the best strategy here...


Did they drop this for the summer? I don't see it from early June through November

Yep, it's gone for the summer.

As of now, the route won't start up again until October 31st.


I'm just as shocked as you are. AA and UA have a small presence on the route, and it's pretty much a dogfight between AS and DL right now.
 
FARmd90
Posts: 663
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Sun May 16, 2021 11:14 pm

maximairways wrote:
tphuang wrote:
T-100 data for Jan/Feb

LF for the largest stations
JFK 67%
MCO 76%
BOS 63%
SJU 76%
LAX 55%
FLL 75%
EWR 74%

top 10 routes
BDLMCO 87%
BDLSJU 87%
EWRFLL 86%
EWRATL 86%
JFKFLL 85%
LGAFLL 85%
BDLFLL 85%
SJUTPA 84%
PHLSJU 83%
LGAMCO 83%

lowest 10
SJUSTT 26%
RDUTPA 26%
JFKABQ 25%
RDURSW 21%
BDLLAX 20%
LAXRIC 20%
LAXSEA 19%
BOSMTJ 16%
BZNLAX 13%
RDUJAX 11%

If we just look at Feb
JFK 69%
MCO 77%
BOS 67%
SJU 78%
LAX 59
FLL 76%
EWR 75%

warm weather stuff continues to do the best. Tough time to start those new LAX/RDU markets. Transcon numbers look to have really dipped when Cali entered their big lockdown.
EWR-ATL looks to be doing well consistently. Not sure why they reduced it to 2x for the summer.


BDL being 3 of the top 10 routes, the seem to be doing very well. Curious to see how the new CUN route is doing.



With BDL performing well it seems (as mentioned 3 out 10 top routes were in BDL and now with B6 being the largest airline in Connecticut/BDL. Could this put BDL on the radar for Europe once the initial Europe expansion is done with at BOS/JFK. With at least 1 or 2 token BDL-Europe flights?
 
Abeam79
Posts: 767
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:16 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 1:32 am

FARmd90 wrote:
maximairways wrote:
tphuang wrote:
T-100 data for Jan/Feb

LF for the largest stations
JFK 67%
MCO 76%
BOS 63%
SJU 76%
LAX 55%
FLL 75%
EWR 74%

top 10 routes
BDLMCO 87%
BDLSJU 87%
EWRFLL 86%
EWRATL 86%
JFKFLL 85%
LGAFLL 85%
BDLFLL 85%
SJUTPA 84%
PHLSJU 83%
LGAMCO 83%

lowest 10
SJUSTT 26%
RDUTPA 26%
JFKABQ 25%
RDURSW 21%
BDLLAX 20%
LAXRIC 20%
LAXSEA 19%
BOSMTJ 16%
BZNLAX 13%
RDUJAX 11%

If we just look at Feb
JFK 69%
MCO 77%
BOS 67%
SJU 78%
LAX 59
FLL 76%
EWR 75%

warm weather stuff continues to do the best. Tough time to start those new LAX/RDU markets. Transcon numbers look to have really dipped when Cali entered their big lockdown.
EWR-ATL looks to be doing well consistently. Not sure why they reduced it to 2x for the summer.


BDL being 3 of the top 10 routes, the seem to be doing very well. Curious to see how the new CUN route is doing.



With BDL performing well it seems (as mentioned 3 out 10 top routes were in BDL and now with B6 being the largest airline in Connecticut/BDL. Could this put BDL on the radar for Europe once the initial Europe expansion is done with at BOS/JFK. With at least 1 or 2 token BDL-Europe flights?

I’ve been thinking this for a while! I can see either bdl-lhr/lgw,dub,ams. I doubt all those but at least one or a couple of those routes
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 6720
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 2:45 am

The likely next route to BDL on B6 is an oldie but a goodie. They are actively looking into it now: JFK
 
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STT757
Posts: 15716
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 3:02 am

jfklganyc wrote:
The likely next route to BDL on B6 is an oldie but a goodie. They are actively looking into it now: JFK


Cue the walk down memory lane when Delta had a scheduled 767-300 between BDL and Kennedy airport.
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 4:51 am

STT757 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
The likely next route to BDL on B6 is an oldie but a goodie. They are actively looking into it now: JFK


Cue the walk down memory lane when Delta had a scheduled 767-300 between BDL and Kennedy airport.


WN flew either ISP-BDL or ISP-PVD once upon a time... I don’t recall which... it was about 15 minutes in the air.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2557
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 5:18 am

Flflyer83 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
The likely next route to BDL on B6 is an oldie but a goodie. They are actively looking into it now: JFK


Cue the walk down memory lane when Delta had a scheduled 767-300 between BDL and Kennedy airport.


WN flew either ISP-BDL or ISP-PVD once upon a time... I don’t recall which... it was about 15 minutes in the air.

ISP-PVD
But then 9/11 happened and the security system was slow so it got quickly dropped.

Flyguy
 
PSA727
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 5:34 am

FARmd90 wrote:

With BDL performing well it seems (as mentioned 3 out 10 top routes were in BDL and now with B6 being the largest airline in Connecticut/BDL. Could this put BDL on the radar for Europe once the initial Europe expansion is done with at BOS/JFK. With at least 1 or 2 token BDL-Europe flights?

With what aircraft? B6 will have 13 321LRs and 13 321XLRs in their fleet. So, between JFK and BOS, there isn't much slack to add TATL service out of other stations. Particularly one that sits between JFK and BOS. If anything, and once most of those 26 aircraft are delivered, B6 will probably look to start service between FLL and deep South America.
 
alohashirts
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:45 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 6:14 am

I think B6 really missed out on purchasing F9 back around 2005/2006. Imagine them with a DEN hub and a strong presence out west, they’d be a completely different airline.
 
PSA727
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 6:28 am

alohashirts wrote:
I think B6 really missed out on purchasing F9 back around 2005/2006. Imagine them with a DEN hub and a strong presence out west, they’d be a completely different airline.

I'm not sure if B6 could have financed such an acquistion back then. However, such a merger is still a possibility. And when people have speculated as to whom B6 should merge with, my argument has always been F9. I was even saying that when B6 was bidding for VX against AS. There is fleet commonality (although I believe their respective Airbus fleets have different engines). And it gives B6 a sizeable hub in the western United States that can be reached by just about every mainland U.S. city with an E175 (should they decide to acquire the type). And there really is no other way for B6 to have a significant presence in the western U.S. organically. They kind of are in the same position US was in prior to their merger with HP.
 
Blerg
Posts: 5948
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 6:35 am

Honestly, I hope B6 never merges with anyone. They seem like a well run and profitable business. All they have to do is keep on expanding while offering a decent enough product. There is room for everyone and the last thing the US needs is more aviation consolidation.
 
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Polot
Posts: 15190
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 11:32 am

PSA727 wrote:
alohashirts wrote:
I think B6 really missed out on purchasing F9 back around 2005/2006. Imagine them with a DEN hub and a strong presence out west, they’d be a completely different airline.

I'm not sure if B6 could have financed such an acquistion back then. However, such a merger is still a possibility. And when people have speculated as to whom B6 should merge with, my argument has always been F9. I was even saying that when B6 was bidding for VX against AS. There is fleet commonality (although I believe their respective Airbus fleets have different engines). And it gives B6 a sizeable hub in the western United States that can be reached by just about every mainland U.S. city with an E175 (should they decide to acquire the type). And there really is no other way for B6 to have a significant presence in the western U.S. organically. They kind of are in the same position US was in prior to their merger with HP.

The problem is the wildly different business model between F9 and B6. I’m not sure F9’s DEN hub would work out with B6’s costs/business model. You can’t forget UA’s and WN’s huge presence there.

Pre-ULCC Frontier was often barely profitable, and that was when F9 had a much larger piece of the DEN pie.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 6720
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 11:55 am

STT757 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
The likely next route to BDL on B6 is an oldie but a goodie. They are actively looking into it now: JFK


Cue the walk down memory lane when Delta had a scheduled 767-300 between BDL and Kennedy airport.



We are showing our age. Also a 763 to PHL
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 6720
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 11:56 am

Flflyer83 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
The likely next route to BDL on B6 is an oldie but a goodie. They are actively looking into it now: JFK


Cue the walk down memory lane when Delta had a scheduled 767-300 between BDL and Kennedy airport.


WN flew either ISP-BDL or ISP-PVD once upon a time... I don’t recall which... it was about 15 minutes in the air.



It was PVD

Great idea

Impossible to get off Long Island to the North
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 6720
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 12:00 pm

PSA727 wrote:
alohashirts wrote:
I think B6 really missed out on purchasing F9 back around 2005/2006. Imagine them with a DEN hub and a strong presence out west, they’d be a completely different airline.

I'm not sure if B6 could have financed such an acquistion back then. However, such a merger is still a possibility. And when people have speculated as to whom B6 should merge with, my argument has always been F9. I was even saying that when B6 was bidding for VX against AS. There is fleet commonality (although I believe their respective Airbus fleets have different engines). And it gives B6 a sizeable hub in the western United States that can be reached by just about every mainland U.S. city with an E175 (should they decide to acquire the type). And there really is no other way for B6 to have a significant presence in the western U.S. organically. They kind of are in the same position US was in prior to their merger with HP.



The hub is gone. That is the problem.

UA had the hub. F9 was like the B6 at JFK of DEN.

Then WN entered, F9 shrank, and the rest is history.

If they bought F9 today, it would be for the planes
 
tphuang
Posts: 7379
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 12:23 pm

It'd be an interesting move to add JFK-BDL. That would orient them to make JFK a more connection focused to support NEA. From JFK, PVD/ALB/CLE/PIT/RIC would also fit in that description.

Looks like they are back to 6x on BOS-SFO in July/August with 1 A320 flight mixed in. JFK-SFO is back to 5x during that time with 1 all-core A321 mixed in. I'd be curious if that gets swapped out for regular mint as all 3 A321LD gets added to the fleet. Looks like they really could use more mint aircraft. Overall, looks like SFO demand might be coming up. I see them with more flight than UA on BOS-SFO (6 to 3), NYC-SFO (7 to 6) and FLL-SFO (2 to 1) for July/August.

Looking into LAX, it's definitely a struggle along the west coast. Here are some of the numbers vs competitors in Jan/Feb. Keep in mind they cut some of these routes for most of Jan/Feb.

LAX-SFO
Carrier Seats Boarded LF Departure PerFlight
B6 924 172 18.61 6 154.0
AS 3012 951 31.57 19 158.5
DL 1140 394 34.56 13 87.7
OO 102916 44009 42.76 1431 71.9
QX 9500 4422 46.55 125 76.0
UA 65239 24062 36.88 412 158.3
WN 56114 11477 20.45 334 168.0
note that B6 only flew 6 times here, but that's quite low. The other mainline service had pretty low LF too, but not as bad as B6 numbers.

LAX-SEA
Carrier Seats Boarded LF Departure PerFlight
B6 3468 642 18.51 22 157.6
AA 932 284 30.47 4 233.0
AS 169841 62983 37.08 1022 166.2
DL 108447 25147 23.19 628 172.7
OO 4028 1825 45.31 56 71.9
QX 2204 1046 47.46 29 76.0
They probably flew here more than they should've. Evan DL mainline only had 23% LF.

LAX-LAS
Carrier Seats Boarded LF Departure PerFlight
B6 642 276 42.99 4 160.5
AA 64820 35685 55.05 351 184.7
DL 20626 8130 39.42 135 152.8
F9 18908 9320 49.29 98 192.9
NK 21476 13441 62.59 118 182.0
OO 50660 29164 57.57 719 70.5
QX 16340 11258 68.90 215 76.0
UA 9279 4400 47.42 53 175.1
This appears to have been a healthier route. Again, minimal B6 capacity here in Q1

LAX-SLC
Carrier Seats Boarded LF Departure PerFlight
B6 11628 4241 36.47 74 157.1
DL 127177 57651 45.33 699 181.9
OO 32180 19944 61.98 450 71.5
QX 2508 1973 78.67 33 76.0
UA 1114 416 37.34 7 159.1
WN 1780 1222 68.65 12 148.3

Overall, A320 is not a good aircraft to buildup network out of LAX. They really need A220 if they want to add frequency on west coast stuff. I'd happy if they can sustain like a 3 to 4x to SFO and maybe 2 to 3x to LAS over the next 2 years.

Also, it looks like F9 is leaving LAX for its operations at ONT/BUR. Something I thought last year might happen. Maybe that would make it slightly easier for LAWA to find space for B6.
Last edited by tphuang on Mon May 17, 2021 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
flyguy1
Posts: 1850
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 1999 9:45 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 12:24 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
STT757 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
The likely next route to BDL on B6 is an oldie but a goodie. They are actively looking into it now: JFK


Cue the walk down memory lane when Delta had a scheduled 767-300 between BDL and Kennedy airport.



We are showing our age. Also a 763 to PHL


Also 767's on JFK-IAD, and JFK-BOS!
 
tphuang
Posts: 7379
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 1:23 pm

I don't know if there is anything to read into this, but JetBlue announced Steve Priest is leaving in June.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 3443
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 1:40 pm

Both PVD and BDL could use JFK service so that they can tap into the broader B6 network and not just dead end Florida routes that sometimes connect to other places.
 
Iggy500
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:40 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 2:06 pm

tphuang wrote:
It looks like F9 is leaving LAX for its operations at ONT/BUR. Something I thought last year might happen. Maybe that would make it slightly easier for LAWA to find space for B6.


This will be a perfect opportunity for B6 to add LAX-ATL/DEN/PHX.
 
hbernal1
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:51 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 4:44 pm

Iggy500 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
It looks like F9 is leaving LAX for its operations at ONT/BUR. Something I thought last year might happen. Maybe that would make it slightly easier for LAWA to find space for B6.


This will be a perfect opportunity for B6 to add LAX-ATL/DEN/PHX.

Of these three routes, I'd only say that B6 should add LAX-PHX. I'd rather see B6 adding ORD and PHL from LAX instead of ATL or DEN. That said, I don't think any of the routes stated would be added until more A220s are in the fleet and crews get more familiar with the aircraft.
 
hbernal1
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:51 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 5:31 pm

Also LAX-related, it appears HA will be moving to the MSC after all. If I'm not mistaken, B6/HA were sharing a gate in T5.

https://lawa.granicus.com/MetaViewer.ph ... a_id=50274
 
hbernal1
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:51 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 6:06 pm

hbernal1 wrote:
Also LAX-related, it appears HA will be moving to the MSC after all. If I'm not mistaken, B6/HA were sharing a gate in T5.

https://lawa.granicus.com/MetaViewer.ph ... a_id=50274

Correction: HA will be relocating to TBIT West. Pardon the triple post.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 2075
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 6:10 pm

They really need to add PHL-LAX with Mint and just sweep out AA and NK.
 
tphuang
Posts: 7379
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 6:25 pm

HA was allowed to use any of the 4 CUTE gates in T-5 IIRC. I think all of those only CUTE gates carrier will be out of T-5 with today's announcements. So, it's just down to AA/NK/B6.

The bigger deal is the comment that HA gates will be converted to narrowbody. There were at least 2 gates capable of handling A330 among the CUTE gates (57, 58). There may have been more. I don't recall. So, it appears to me, they will add 1 and possibly 2 more gates at T-5.

As a point of reference for flights out of T-5 today according to flightstats)
AA - 37 (although 21 of that is actually from Eagles nest), so I think 16 flights actually from T-5.
B6 - 30
NK - 24
HA - 5
F9 - 5
G4 -3

I remember reading in one of the LAX threads in the past few months that there would still be 5 non-AA gates at T-5 after they complete their part of the deal with LAWA. If they add 2 more gates at T-5, that could potentially give B6 enough gates to stay in T-5 if NK gets forced out. We are going to wait a little longer to see how this plays out.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 6:28 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
They really need to add PHL-LAX with Mint and just sweep out AA and NK.


As a Philly resident I'm bias and agree lol
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1937
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 9:12 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
They really need to add PHL-LAX with Mint and just sweep out AA and NK.


As a Philly resident I'm bias and agree lol

After AA retiring the A330, having mint on this route would be amazing.
 
CairnterriAIR
Posts: 930
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:52 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 11:17 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
The likely next route to BDL on B6 is an oldie but a goodie. They are actively looking into it now: JFK


This is long time overdue. A morning trip into JFK will avoid ATC delays which Delta endured with its afternoon rotation with the 767 years ago. Very little risk flying the short run up to BDL at night, cheaply park the plane, a d fly out the next am. Very little fuel burned and even with a 50% load factor you are capturing those passengers who may have flown another airline.
 
CairnterriAIR
Posts: 930
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:52 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 11:20 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
Both PVD and BDL could use JFK service so that they can tap into the broader B6 network and not just dead end Florida routes that sometimes connect to other places.


I agree...a single morning departure will add a decent number of options to fly west. As for BDL...they do plenty of business with the point to point runs. But yes...JFK is a must. Driving there from any part of Southern New England is awful.
 
CairnterriAIR
Posts: 930
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:52 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Mon May 17, 2021 11:27 pm

PSA727 wrote:
FARmd90 wrote:

With BDL performing well it seems (as mentioned 3 out 10 top routes were in BDL and now with B6 being the largest airline in Connecticut/BDL. Could this put BDL on the radar for Europe once the initial Europe expansion is done with at BOS/JFK. With at least 1 or 2 token BDL-Europe flights?

With what aircraft? B6 will have 13 321LRs and 13 321XLRs in their fleet. So, between JFK and BOS, there isn't much slack to add TATL service out of other stations. Particularly one that sits between JFK and BOS. If anything, and once most of those 26 aircraft are delivered, B6 will probably look to start service between FLL and deep South America.


They can always add more aircraft to the order. I don’t see them stopping at 26. Deep South America from FLL...can’t see that as a priority over short transatlantic. South Florida to Santiago or Buenos Aires is a long way to fly on a smaller aircraft. Bigger yields on 5-7 hour segments. Can the XLR’s even make it that far South?
 
catiii
Posts: 4000
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 12:07 am

tphuang wrote:
I don't know if there is anything to read into this, but JetBlue announced Steve Priest is leaving in June.


And eBay announced Steve Priest is joining over the summer.
 
catiii
Posts: 4000
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 12:08 am

CairnterriAIR wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
Both PVD and BDL could use JFK service so that they can tap into the broader B6 network and not just dead end Florida routes that sometimes connect to other places.


I agree...a single morning departure will add a decent number of options to fly west. As for BDL...they do plenty of business with the point to point runs. But yes...JFK is a must. Driving there from any part of Southern New England is awful.


It would also feed the Northeast codeshare partnership with AA.
 
B6BOSfan
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:11 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 12:48 am

CairnterriAIR wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
The likely next route to BDL on B6 is an oldie but a goodie. They are actively looking into it now: JFK


This is long time overdue. A morning trip into JFK will avoid ATC delays which Delta endured with its afternoon rotation with the 767 years ago. Very little risk flying the short run up to BDL at night, cheaply park the plane, a d fly out the next am. Very little fuel burned and even with a 50% load factor you are capturing those passengers who may have flown another airline.


Agreed. I did ORH-JFK a few years back. 6am departure -- and 22 minutes from wheels up to touchdown at JFK. Spent the day in NYC, 10:35pm departure home -- and was back at my MetroWest home just after midnight. Was great. I think a they were trying the feed flights with SYR-BOS and ROC-BOS awhile back. Early to BOS, late back to upstate NY. Same idea here.
 
tphuang
Posts: 7379
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 1:32 am

https://spectrumnews1.com/ma/worcester/ ... nouncement
Looks like maybe B6 will announce coming back to ORH soon. This should keep MassPort happy. I'd imagine the Florida flights are a lot more likely than JFK return.

Having more short haul flights into JFK would be another reason to keep around E90 longer. I can't imagine it'd be too easy to fill A320s from BDL/PVD to JFK on 70% connection traffic.
 
BOSman
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:15 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 3:45 am

FARmd90 wrote:
maximairways wrote:
tphuang wrote:
T-100 data for Jan/Feb

LF for the largest stations
JFK 67%
MCO 76%
BOS 63%
SJU 76%
LAX 55%
FLL 75%
EWR 74%

top 10 routes
BDLMCO 87%
BDLSJU 87%
EWRFLL 86%
EWRATL 86%
JFKFLL 85%
LGAFLL 85%
BDLFLL 85%
SJUTPA 84%
PHLSJU 83%
LGAMCO 83%

lowest 10
SJUSTT 26%
RDUTPA 26%
JFKABQ 25%
RDURSW 21%
BDLLAX 20%
LAXRIC 20%
LAXSEA 19%
BOSMTJ 16%
BZNLAX 13%
RDUJAX 11%

If we just look at Feb
JFK 69%
MCO 77%
BOS 67%
SJU 78%
LAX 59
FLL 76%
EWR 75%

warm weather stuff continues to do the best. Tough time to start those new LAX/RDU markets. Transcon numbers look to have really dipped when Cali entered their big lockdown.
EWR-ATL looks to be doing well consistently. Not sure why they reduced it to 2x for the summer.


BDL being 3 of the top 10 routes, the seem to be doing very well. Curious to see how the new CUN route is doing.



With BDL performing well it seems (as mentioned 3 out 10 top routes were in BDL and now with B6 being the largest airline in Connecticut/BDL. Could this put BDL on the radar for Europe once the initial Europe expansion is done with at BOS/JFK. With at least 1 or 2 token BDL-Europe flights?


Down the road, I think we might see BDL-LHR, or maybe another London airport (not both of course). But that's a long ways down the road.

RL757PVD wrote:
Both PVD and BDL could use JFK service so that they can tap into the broader B6 network and not just dead end Florida routes that sometimes connect to other places.


PVD-JFK combined with a return of ORH-JFK would be great for Boston-area pax. When you book on B6's website you can book from the "Boston Area" to any destination, so if you're not worried about leaving from and returning to different airports, it gives you that much more options like PVD-JFK-LAS-BOS or PVD-TPA-JFK-ORH for example.
 
hbernal1
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:51 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 3:57 am

PHLspecial wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
They really need to add PHL-LAX with Mint and just sweep out AA and NK.


As a Philly resident I'm bias and agree lol

After AA retiring the A330, having mint on this route would be amazing.

Agreed. I think PHL would be a nice add to the Mint network out of LAX. Add DC transcons and Hawaii to the map as well and I think B6 would have a strong Mint operation from LAX.
CairnterriAIR wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
Both PVD and BDL could use JFK service so that they can tap into the broader B6 network and not just dead end Florida routes that sometimes connect to other places.


I agree...a single morning departure will add a decent number of options to fly west. As for BDL...they do plenty of business with the point to point runs. But yes...JFK is a must. Driving there from any part of Southern New England is awful.

B6 would definitely benefit from the feed - again, this is probably why B6 probably still want to keep the E90s around for some time.
 
NYCSKYGUY
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:12 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 11:29 am

CairnterriAIR wrote:
PSA727 wrote:
FARmd90 wrote:


They can always add more aircraft to the order. I don’t see them stopping at 26. Deep South America from FLL...can’t see that as a priority over short transatlantic. South Florida to Santiago or Buenos Aires is a long way to fly on a smaller aircraft. Bigger yields on 5-7 hour segments. Can the XLR’s even make it that far South?


Can the XLR make it from S Florida to the population centers of S America? Yes, it certainly looks like is can. Airbus is publishing a 4700nm range with standard pax configuration. Most cities (Santiago, BA, Montevideo, Brazilian Cities) look to be <4000nm away. With little wind to account for I think it's definitely a possibility. Whether they'd focus on the larger cities or the secondary ones (or both) would be an interesting question.
 
tphuang
Posts: 7379
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 11:58 am

NYCSKYGUY wrote:
CairnterriAIR wrote:
PSA727 wrote:


Can the XLR make it from S Florida to the population centers of S America? Yes, it certainly looks like is can. Airbus is publishing a 4700nm range with standard pax configuration. Most cities (Santiago, BA, Montevideo, Brazilian Cities) look to be <4000nm away. With little wind to account for I think it's definitely a possibility. Whether they'd focus on the larger cities or the secondary ones (or both) would be an interesting question.


XLR can actually make it to population centers of South America from JFK also. It'd be interesting to see what they chose to do here.

Again, if they have 50 more JFK slots to work with, they can run an entirely different network at JFK with a lot more connections. A JFK hub that can connect to most of Europe, south America on their own metals and even further with AA codeshares seems like an ideal target for B6 to strive for.
 
Cboyle
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:32 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 12:17 pm

ORH is reporting that B6 is announcing next week...
MHT also has an announcement in the coming weeks regarding something so...
 
WNflyer1523
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:28 am

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 12:20 pm

Cboyle wrote:
ORH is reporting that B6 is announcing next week...
MHT also has an announcement in the coming weeks regarding something so...


Doubt MHT would get JetBlue but if they did it would be awesome. I'm guessing Breeze for MHT
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6720
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Jetblue Network Thread - 2021

Tue May 18, 2021 1:52 pm

tphuang wrote:
https://spectrumnews1.com/ma/worcester/news/2021/05/17/jetblue-worcester-announcement
Looks like maybe B6 will announce coming back to ORH soon. This should keep MassPort happy. I'd imagine the Florida flights are a lot more likely than JFK return.

Having more short haul flights into JFK would be another reason to keep around E90 longer. I can't imagine it'd be too easy to fill A320s from BDL/PVD to JFK on 70% connection traffic.



I think its the opposite. JFK is most likely to return.

ORH burns money. Purely flown to appease Massport.

JFK is the most cost effective way to do it. Especially with their new found AA slots

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