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GoodRide
Posts: 63
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:31 am

Amazon appears to have exercised more warrants in ATSG, according to this SEC form filed 10/5/21.

https://otp.tools.investis.com/clients/ ... ndex=10000
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:47 am

GoodRide wrote:
Amazon appears to have exercised more warrants in ATSG, according to this SEC form filed 10/5/21.

https://otp.tools.investis.com/clients/ ... ndex=10000


Reading it carefully on the ATSG web site investor section, it looks like Amazon just acquired another 584567 warrants exercisable at $20.40 each between now and 2025, with the terms and conditions under which they may be exercised subject to a commercial agreement between Amazon and ATSG. Amazon's arrangement with ATSG involves Amazon being granted warrants in return for leasing additional aircraft and/or, I believe, hiring ATSG carriers to operate Amazon aircraft. It's booked as a marketing expense. Right now, based on today's stock price, if Amazon exercised those warrants (which I believe have not yet vested) and flipped them, they'd make like $1.7 million. Peanuts to them. I believe that Amazon doesn't hold any shares of AAWW; if there was an exercise, they then flipped the shares, but I'll have to go back and look. With regard to ATSG, they actually in the past exercised and flipped some shares but also exercised and held a substantial number of shares. Plainly, it's in Amazon's interest for ATSG to do well, but the order of magnitude of this particular investment isn't great: the shares represented by these warrants are worth about $14 million. If I am reading the form correctly, this particular warrant is about 1/10 of the warrants/shares that Amazon owns, so add a zero for the total. Not peanuts, but also not determinative of Amazon's financial future.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:49 am

UPlog wrote:
ATR-72-500 operated by Silver Airways captured at AFW.


That's a nice photo! And it's a good-looking prop. I'm not sure that this particular livery, however, is all that flattering. Maybe larger titles? Something just isn't right, as I look at it.
 
GoodRide
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:56 pm

Thanks for clarifying, and I agree about the ATR livery!
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:17 pm

Circling back to the ATR though: When will more be on property, and when will they be added to the schedule? Right now it's just a big paperweight giving those parking cones something to do.
 
nws2002
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:23 pm

Although not drastically different, the livery shown in most of the mock-ups looked better. It is pretty much just the 767 livery though. Also, no windows makes it look cleaner.

Image
 
jbs2886
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:42 pm

wjcandee wrote:
UPlog wrote:
ATR-72-500 operated by Silver Airways captured at AFW.


That's a nice photo! And it's a good-looking prop. I'm not sure that this particular livery, however, is all that flattering. Maybe larger titles? Something just isn't right, as I look at it.


For me its the swoop stopping at the tail - I think if they brought that color up and have a white smile it would look fine.
 
Delta28L
Posts: 504
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:27 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
UPlog wrote:
ATR-72-500 operated by Silver Airways captured at AFW.


That's a nice photo! And it's a good-looking prop. I'm not sure that this particular livery, however, is all that flattering. Maybe larger titles? Something just isn't right, as I look at it.


For me its the swoop stopping at the tail - I think if they brought that color up and have a white smile it would look fine.


Someone needs to get high speed yellow tape and put some eyes on it
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:43 pm

The titles in the mock-up were, I now realize, significantly-larger. Also, it's worth the price of the extra paint color to make the thing look good. The current exemplar just looks cheap. If anybody other than us cares.
 
gdavis003
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:11 pm

Did I miss it, or have there been any details yet on where/how they plan to utilize the ATRs out of AFW? Will they be replacing current 767 routes with more frequencies and adjusting smaller routes to the proper capacity, or do they plan to fly into new markets? I just haven't seen many details yet on the plans, other than the fact that they have 3 (?) in possession and Silver is planning to operate them out of AFW
 
stretch8
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:05 am

N398AN B763 is airborne TLV-SNN. cheers!
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:13 am

And it looks like N398AN (which will be an Amazon-leased aircraft operated by ATI) is scheduled to leave SNN on Wednesday and fly to CVG then ILN. Presumably then to paint.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:52 am

N398AN in the air SNN-CVG. I saw a photo of her completing a test flight last week, and IAI has given her a coat of grey over the green sheet metal work, so she's not a Frankenplane. That suggests maybe she will go quickly into service for Peak and be painted in the Amazon livery later, as has happened before.
 
stretch8
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:03 pm

N398AN B763 completed routing SNN-CVG-ILN. Hope she goes into svc in current colors. cheers!
 
CALMSP
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:48 am

do we know what the ATR is going to fly? I was told AFW-ABQ, but haven't heard much on that since June.
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:30 am

CALMSP wrote:
do we know what the ATR is going to fly? I was told AFW-ABQ, but haven't heard much on that since June.


I wonder if this will open up a one-day shipping route into Albuquerque. Right now as far as I know only Phoenix (and possibly Tucson) is one-day delivery to Albuquerque, and soon ABQ1 will likely add one-day and same-day options.
 
stretch8
Posts: 161
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:51 pm

Appears N398AN B763 is now a gray ghost, & also is having a #1 engine change at ILN. cheers!
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:00 pm

stretch8 wrote:
Appears N398AN B763 is now a gray ghost, & also is having a #1 engine change at ILN. cheers!


Thanks for the update!
 
strangeplanes
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:16 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:43 pm

Watched a Sun Country - Amazon Air cargo flight come into KMCI from Fairbanks. New route? Has AMZN added anything to MCI since their initial launch?
 
jjbiv
Posts: 1330
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:13 am

strangeplanes wrote:
Watched a Sun Country - Amazon Air cargo flight come into KMCI from Fairbanks. New route? Has AMZN added anything to MCI since their initial launch?

Given the flight number (SCX6503), this is likely a positioning flight for aircraft maintenance at MCI.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:23 pm

jjbiv wrote:
strangeplanes wrote:
Watched a Sun Country - Amazon Air cargo flight come into KMCI from Fairbanks. New route? Has AMZN added anything to MCI since their initial launch?

Given the flight number (SCX6503), this is likely a positioning flight for aircraft maintenance at MCI.


That's a good catch, jjbiv. As you know, SCX does maintenance on their Amazon freighters at ATS in PAE or MCI.
 
GoodRide
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:03 am

Per a press release today, ATSG has contracted with Boeing for the conversion of four 763 BCF freighters. Unsure about who the customer may be, or the timeline.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:17 am

GoodRide wrote:
Per a press release today, ATSG has contracted with Boeing for the conversion of four 763 BCF freighters. Unsure about who the customer may be, or the timeline.


An article link
https://www.aerotechnews.com/blog/2021/ ... ter-order/

So this is the first ATSG order for Boeing conversions, I assume Boeing would cost more, is this to get available slots?
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:31 am

JayinKitsap wrote:
GoodRide wrote:
Per a press release today, ATSG has contracted with Boeing for the conversion of four 763 BCF freighters. Unsure about who the customer may be, or the timeline.


An article link
https://www.aerotechnews.com/blog/2021/ ... ter-order/

So this is the first ATSG order for Boeing conversions, I assume Boeing would cost more, is this to get available slots?


Yes (a lot cheaper). Especially when you get highly-preferential prices from IAI by being their largest customer for the type.

And yes.

This is what Atlas did when it got the contract with Amazon way back when. They bought all the slots they could get at IAI in the desired time frame (12), and sent the rest to Boeing (10). (Extras above 20 are Atlas-owned spares.)

FWIW, the ATSG carriers don't operate any BCFs; they're all BDSFs. The two Andromeda (Titan/AAWW) formerly-Atlas-operated Amazon 763s that ATI now operates are BDSFs (N1049A, N1439A). The one that Atlas wrote off was a BCF.

CAM does lease one ex-JAL BCF (N394UP) to UPS, which insisted upon FADEC engines and I guess buying this aircraft was one way for CAM to lay hands on one fast for them.
 
GoodRide
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:58 am

Slight correction, 431AZ and 433AZ at ATI are both BCFs.

wjcandee wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
GoodRide wrote:
Per a press release today, ATSG has contracted with Boeing for the conversion of four 763 BCF freighters. Unsure about who the customer may be, or the timeline.


An article link
https://www.aerotechnews.com/blog/2021/ ... ter-order/

So this is the first ATSG order for Boeing conversions, I assume Boeing would cost more, is this to get available slots?


Yes (a lot cheaper). Especially when you get highly-preferential prices from IAI by being their largest customer for the type.

And yes.

This is what Atlas did when it got the contract with Amazon way back when. They bought all the slots they could get at IAI in the desired time frame (12), and sent the rest to Boeing (10). (Extras above 20 are Atlas-owned spares.)

FWIW, the ATSG carriers don't operate any BCFs; they're all BDSFs. The two Andromeda (Titan/AAWW) formerly-Atlas-operated Amazon 763s that ATI now operates are BDSFs (N1049A, N1439A). The one that Atlas wrote off was a BCF.

CAM does lease one ex-JAL BCF (N394UP) to UPS, which insisted upon FADEC engines and I guess buying this aircraft was one way for CAM to lay hands on one fast for them.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:07 pm

GoodRide wrote:
Slight correction, 431AZ and 433AZ at ATI are both BCFs.


Absolutely-correct. I had it right there on my little matrix; just didn't see it. Thanks for the gentle correction!!!!
 
ILNFlyer
Posts: 708
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:40 pm

wjcandee wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
GoodRide wrote:
Per a press release today, ATSG has contracted with Boeing for the conversion of four 763 BCF freighters. Unsure about who the customer may be, or the timeline.


An article link
https://www.aerotechnews.com/blog/2021/ ... ter-order/

So this is the first ATSG order for Boeing conversions, I assume Boeing would cost more, is this to get available slots?


Yes (a lot cheaper). Especially when you get highly-preferential prices from IAI by being their largest customer for the type.

And yes.

This is what Atlas did when it got the contract with Amazon way back when. They bought all the slots they could get at IAI in the desired time frame (12), and sent the rest to Boeing (10). (Extras above 20 are Atlas-owned spares.)

FWIW, the ATSG carriers don't operate any BCFs; they're all BDSFs. The two Andromeda (Titan/AAWW) formerly-Atlas-operated Amazon 763s that ATI now operates are BDSFs (N1049A, N1439A). The one that Atlas wrote off was a BCF.

CAM does lease one ex-JAL BCF (N394UP) to UPS, which insisted upon FADEC engines and I guess buying this aircraft was one way for CAM to lay hands on one fast for them.


IAI must be booked solid for quite a ways into the future for ATSG to book slots with Boeing. Does anyone know how far out they are booked at IAI?
 
Whiplash6
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:22 pm

Has anyone reading the amazon tea leaves determined anything new in regards to their plans? Do they plan on buying airlines and forming their own flight department? Are they aiming to take on UPS and FedEx?
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:48 pm

Whiplash6 wrote:
Has anyone reading the amazon tea leaves determined anything new in regards to their plans? Do they plan on buying airlines and forming their own flight department? Are they aiming to take on UPS and FedEx?


It is potentially possible for Amazon to eventually acquire ATSG. It would be a turn key operation for them. They have ground, maintenance, sort and aircraft operations all under one umbrella. Essentially they could own ATSG for what amounts to Amazon's petty cash. As to whether or not they would take on Fedex or UPS, I doubt it. They dont have the global infrastructure, and they are still too small air fleet wise.
 
DaveMetroD
Posts: 129
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:25 pm

The Amazon business model is to use contract employees wherever possible.
Helps keep employee compensation in check.
I can't see air being any different.
 
HPRamper
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:46 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
Whiplash6 wrote:
Has anyone reading the amazon tea leaves determined anything new in regards to their plans? Do they plan on buying airlines and forming their own flight department? Are they aiming to take on UPS and FedEx?


It is potentially possible for Amazon to eventually acquire ATSG. It would be a turn key operation for them. They have ground, maintenance, sort and aircraft operations all under one umbrella. Essentially they could own ATSG for what amounts to Amazon's petty cash. As to whether or not they would take on Fedex or UPS, I doubt it. They dont have the global infrastructure, and they are still too small air fleet wise.

The way to "take on" FedEx and UPS is by doing what they are already doing - starting to offer shipping for third-party non-Amazon customers and carrying USPS freight. Now they just continue to grow that segment organically by adding aircraft and undercutting....which isn't hard with the increasingly exorbitant prices offered by the other integrators. They already have a leg up on delivery times by having widely-dispersed distribution centers rather than needing items to flow across a superhub a thousand miles from the customer.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:08 pm

ATSG conference call today indicates that the 4 Boeing 767 slots were acquired in order to guarantee performance to CAM's existing customers, apparently not for new business. What this means is they felt they needed an alternative source to process a few planes because they were seeing some creaking at IAI, and diversifying suppliers is a way to keep things on track. ATSG is happy to spend money for essential things, hard to part with a nickel for anything glossy or fancy, so presumably going to Boeing was seen as an essential reliability expense. They're full through late 2023 in terms of their order book.
 
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sunking737
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:58 pm

Sun Country Airlines had a earnings call earlier this week. Air cargo represented $24 million in the 3rd quarter..$96 Million for the year?? I would image its mostly Amazon...???
 
jbs2886
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:21 pm

DaveMetroD wrote:
The Amazon business model is to use contract employees wherever possible.


This is false. Yes, there are a lot of contractors, but its not "wherever possible" to save money.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:39 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
DaveMetroD wrote:
The Amazon business model is to use contract employees wherever possible.


This is false. Yes, there are a lot of contractors, but its not "wherever possible" to save money.

Unless they’re picking, boxing, or sorting they’re absolutely outsourced. Especially in the transportation network.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:56 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
DaveMetroD wrote:
The Amazon business model is to use contract employees wherever possible.


This is false. Yes, there are a lot of contractors, but its not "wherever possible" to save money.

Unless they’re picking, boxing, or sorting they’re absolutely outsourced. Especially in the transportation network.


Some of transportation is now being brought in.
 
stretch8
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:59 pm

N398AN B763 BDSF, the gray ghost at ILN now wears serial N257AZ. cheers!
 
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DL757NYC
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:22 pm

Seems like N398AN has been in conversion a long time. How many ex AA birds are left to convert? I know all of them have been sold long time ago.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:41 am

DL757NYC wrote:
Seems like N398AN has been in conversion a long time. How many ex AA birds are left to convert?


N398AN was in conversion at TLV 2/23-10/26/21. It is now at ILN for conformity, which appears to be done as it has been renumbered. It will either go into service in the grey paint for now, or it will go spend 2 weeks at the paint shop.

Of the CAM-purchased ex-AA retired frames, the following are not yet in service as freighters:
N397AN -- at TLV since 3/7/21
N396AN -- at TLV since 5/4/21


Of the 8 DHL-purchased ex-AA retired frames that DHL owns and for which it has managed the conversion, the following are not yet in service:

N342AN -- at MEX since 2/3/21.

The rest of those 8 are in-service, mostly at DHX. 2 of the 7 in service were converted at MEX (BDSF), 5 at QPG (BCF).
 
flightwriter
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:58 am

1337Delta764 wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
do we know what the ATR is going to fly? I was told AFW-ABQ, but haven't heard much on that since June.


I wonder if this will open up a one-day shipping route into Albuquerque. Right now as far as I know only Phoenix (and possibly Tucson) is one-day delivery to Albuquerque, and soon ABQ1 will likely add one-day and same-day options.


On a related note, the Sunport announced via social media this week that the Albuquerque city council just voted to approve a ground lease to Amazon at ABQ.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Sat Nov 06, 2021 5:11 am

Good news: 767-300 N397AN (to be N251AZ) took a post-conversion test flight today TLV-TLV. Been there 8 months already; about time!

Bad news: It lasted 11 minutes. Took off, stopped the climb after 2 minutes at 3700 feet, then descended to 3000-ish while turning immediately and setting up for landing 9 minutes later. Total time: 11 minutes.
 
flyguy1
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:29 pm

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N397AN

Interestingly enough, it has already filed to fly TLV-CVG on 11/7/21, FWIW.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:33 pm

flyguy1 wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N397AN

Interestingly enough, it has already filed to fly TLV-CVG on 11/7/21, FWIW.


Thank you, yes! It was already filed yesterday when the aircraft departed on its abbreviated test flight, so that may be optimistic, but we'll see!

As you point out, it's also interesting that the flight didn't include a stop in SNN, which suggests that they don't want to waste the usual 24 hours of crew rest in SNN -- i.e. they're eager to get it it Stateside.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:53 am

Interesting development with N409AZ this morning. No biggie, just interesting. She did an air-return to ILN on a revenue flight tonight -- first one I can remember seeing back to ILN.

This is ex-DL N1501P, a low-cycle, high-hour aircraft. At conversion in TLV in late 2019, she had 21647 cycles, but 115266 hours. I think this is one of the ones that Spacepope was convinced was for parts, not conversion, based on her hours. How far we've come! In fairness, IAI didn't find much terribly-wrong with her (or reportable at least) during the conversion heavy-check. Corrosion and dents, of course, in a few places, and something with a thrust reverser bolt. Nothing scary.

After conversion, she briefly flew in late December 2019, then went for paint in February 2020, then for a gear change at RFD, and really started working continuously in like March of 2020. She wouldn't normally be coming in for a C-check after 18 months or so of service, so I was a bit surprised when she showed up at ILN on 10/12, and stayed there until tonight (11/7). That's not enough time for a heavy-check, so apparently it was for something else.

Whatever they were working on they apparently thought they had fixed, so she loaded up for a flight to SEA. Departed, then stopped the climb about 5000 feet, with some altitude fluctuation between that and 5900 feet, and turned back about 6 minutes after departure, then set up an approach about 2700 feet. She appears to have broken off the approach, turned 180, flown away from the airport then turned back towards it, as if setting up the approach again. Landed therafter. Total flight time about 30 minutes. Could be anything, obviously, and it isn't reasonable to infer that whatever they were working on was the source of the problem. Engine issue, maybe? Avionics?

Looks like N433AZ has been recruited to protect the flight, and is on her way to SEA with about a 2 hour delay. Pretty-good.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:26 am

wjcandee wrote:
This is ex-DL N1501P, a low-cycle, high-hour aircraft. At conversion in TLV in late 2019, she had 21647 cycles, but 115266 hours. I think this is one of the ones that Spacepope was convinced was for parts, not conversion, based on her hours.


The DL 1501-1506 planes have non-FADEC CF6 engines, which is what the early AA 763s have. I think this is what kept them out of the scrapyard.
 
flyguy1
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:59 am

wjcandee wrote:
flyguy1 wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N397AN

Interestingly enough, it has already filed to fly TLV-CVG on 11/7/21, FWIW.


Thank you, yes! It was already filed yesterday when the aircraft departed on its abbreviated test flight, so that may be optimistic, but we'll see!

As you point out, it's also interesting that the flight didn't include a stop in SNN, which suggests that they don't want to waste the usual 24 hours of crew rest in SNN -- i.e. they're eager to get it it Stateside.


So she's in the air now, and per flight aware was supposed to fly TLV-CVG, as we discussed earlier. Unfortunately, she seems to be holding over the Mediterranean Sea now, at 15,000 feet, Been in the air for almost two hours now, perhaps burning fuel before returning to TLV?
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:07 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Interesting development with N409AZ this morning. No biggie, just interesting. She did an air-return to ILN on a revenue flight tonight -- first one I can remember seeing back to ILN.

This is ex-DL N1501P, a low-cycle, high-hour aircraft. At conversion in TLV in late 2019, she had 21647 cycles, but 115266 hours. I think this is one of the ones that Spacepope was convinced was for parts, not conversion, based on her hours. How far we've come! In fairness, IAI didn't find much terribly-wrong with her (or reportable at least) during the conversion heavy-check. Corrosion and dents, of course, in a few places, and something with a thrust reverser bolt. Nothing scary.

After conversion, she briefly flew in late December 2019, then went for paint in February 2020, then for a gear change at RFD, and really started working continuously in like March of 2020. She wouldn't normally be coming in for a C-check after 18 months or so of service, so I was a bit surprised when she showed up at ILN on 10/12, and stayed there until tonight (11/7). That's not enough time for a heavy-check, so apparently it was for something else.

Whatever they were working on they apparently thought they had fixed, so she loaded up for a flight to SEA. Departed, then stopped the climb about 5000 feet, with some altitude fluctuation between that and 5900 feet, and turned back about 6 minutes after departure, then set up an approach about 2700 feet. She appears to have broken off the approach, turned 180, flown away from the airport then turned back towards it, as if setting up the approach again. Landed therafter. Total flight time about 30 minutes. Could be anything, obviously, and it isn't reasonable to infer that whatever they were working on was the source of the problem. Engine issue, maybe? Avionics?

Looks like N433AZ has been recruited to protect the flight, and is on her way to SEA with about a 2 hour delay. Pretty-good.


See, I told you she wanted to get on the cart. How long does a rear pressure bulkhead change take?

Interesting she was being sent to SEA. Isnt that one of the routes typically flown by a new (to them) aircraft when first entering service?
 
Boof02671
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Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:10 pm

Spacepope wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Interesting development with N409AZ this morning. No biggie, just interesting. She did an air-return to ILN on a revenue flight tonight -- first one I can remember seeing back to ILN.

This is ex-DL N1501P, a low-cycle, high-hour aircraft. At conversion in TLV in late 2019, she had 21647 cycles, but 115266 hours. I think this is one of the ones that Spacepope was convinced was for parts, not conversion, based on her hours. How far we've come! In fairness, IAI didn't find much terribly-wrong with her (or reportable at least) during the conversion heavy-check. Corrosion and dents, of course, in a few places, and something with a thrust reverser bolt. Nothing scary.

After conversion, she briefly flew in late December 2019, then went for paint in February 2020, then for a gear change at RFD, and really started working continuously in like March of 2020. She wouldn't normally be coming in for a C-check after 18 months or so of service, so I was a bit surprised when she showed up at ILN on 10/12, and stayed there until tonight (11/7). That's not enough time for a heavy-check, so apparently it was for something else.

Whatever they were working on they apparently thought they had fixed, so she loaded up for a flight to SEA. Departed, then stopped the climb about 5000 feet, with some altitude fluctuation between that and 5900 feet, and turned back about 6 minutes after departure, then set up an approach about 2700 feet. She appears to have broken off the approach, turned 180, flown away from the airport then turned back towards it, as if setting up the approach again. Landed therafter. Total flight time about 30 minutes. Could be anything, obviously, and it isn't reasonable to infer that whatever they were working on was the source of the problem. Engine issue, maybe? Avionics?

Looks like N433AZ has been recruited to protect the flight, and is on her way to SEA with about a 2 hour delay. Pretty-good.


See, I told you she wanted to get on the cart. How long does a rear pressure bulkhead change take?

Interesting she was being sent to SEA. Isnt that one of the routes typically flown by a new (to them) aircraft when first entering service?

Here is a good video that ATSG put out showing a Timelapse video of a rear pressure bulkhead replacement.

https://youtu.be/GIn6gK9FJJQ
 
wjcandee
Posts: 11199
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 4:52 pm

flyguy1 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
flyguy1 wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N397AN

Interestingly enough, it has already filed to fly TLV-CVG on 11/7/21, FWIW.


Thank you, yes! It was already filed yesterday when the aircraft departed on its abbreviated test flight, so that may be optimistic, but we'll see!

As you point out, it's also interesting that the flight didn't include a stop in SNN, which suggests that they don't want to waste the usual 24 hours of crew rest in SNN -- i.e. they're eager to get it it Stateside.


So she's in the air now, and per flight aware was supposed to fly TLV-CVG, as we discussed earlier. Unfortunately, she seems to be holding over the Mediterranean Sea now, at 15,000 feet, Been in the air for almost two hours now, perhaps burning fuel before returning to TLV?


I am thinking, because of her callsign, that it was planned as a test flight to replace the CVG flight that we were expecting, due to the aborted test flight the day before. BDK09. Bedek 09. Normally, CAM just flies them home with their tail number. Also looks rescheduled for tomorrow with a stop in SNN.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 11199
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Amazon Fleet Discussion - 2021

Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:04 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Here is a good video that ATSG put out showing a Timelapse video of a rear pressure bulkhead replacement.


I love that video. Corrado said at the last earnings call that AMES is still the only MRO in the world certified to do that work. Fun to watch it be done before they installed the new overhead crane at ILN. The new crane makes all this a little less-involved (although not much).

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